What's it going to take

[freedom-wedge]

For people to understand that its fair to be told the truth by those who supposedly lead us, that people can hold those leaders trying to gain our allegiance so that they might govern, to their word. :angry2:

[Str8 Jacket]

You from Destiny Church?

BTW, do you have trouble making friends?

[Virago]

42.




.

[freedom-wedge]

cant afford it and well friends, who knows

[MSTRS]

What will it take?








































A couple of assassinations would be a start...

[AllanB]

Has your post got anything to do with Penis-envy?

[EJK]

lol explain further please freedom-wedge?

[slofox]

....wot..?

[freedom-wedge]

well Im a deaf buggar, but I,m sure key said he wouldnt raise gst ???

[wbks]

well Im a deaf buggar, but I,m sure key said he wouldnt raise gst ???

yay for national

[Hans]

Skyryder, is that you?

[EJK]

Oh, government problem huh? Learn from Monopoly the board game.
The board game encourages the players to evade taxes. It's normal to pass on the INCOME TAX and LUXURY TAX.

[AllanB]

I still think it is Penis-envy ................

[freedom-wedge]

grins were seeing a few specialists are we allanB

[AllanB]

grins were seeing a few specialists are we allanB

Probably should be! But I can't afford too as the Government took back all my tax cuts in increased levies ........

[wbks]

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[Mully]

Skyryder, is that you?

Nah - Skyryder is more literate.

And signs his posts.

Plus this guy didn't specifically mention John Key - and doing that gives Skyryder the horn, so he never hesitates.

EDIT: It's probably Phil Goof looking for relevance again.

[peasea]

Is this a waving thread?

[kwaka_crasher]

And signs his posts.

Can anyone tell me why some people do this? It's pointless.

[Mully]

Can anyone tell me why some people do this? It's pointless.

I asked him once - he said it's just something he's always done.

So I started signing mine with random names (Tarquin, Edwina, Arthur and so on) to amuse myself, but then I forgot to do it and it died a natural death.

[Ronin]

Skyryder, is that you?


Hahahahaha. Snap.

[Ronin]

Is this a waving thread?



I don't think so. We could run a poll to see if there should be one though.

[kwaka_crasher]

I asked him once - he said it's just something he's always done.

Guess he'll be filling his electric car with petrol one day then.

[Toaster]

Is that a pig flying past my window?

[98tls]

For people to understand that its fair to be told the truth by those who supposedly lead us, that people can hold those leaders trying to gain our allegiance so that they might govern, to their word. :angry2:

Tis ok, despite all the evidence nobody really gives a shit whether you wave or not.Wave away nobodys watching.

[Tank]

Tis ok, despite all the evidence nobody really gives a shit whether you wave or not.Wave away nobodys watching.

Has anyone ever thought of having a special ninja secret kiwibiker wave?

[98tls]

Has anyone ever thought of having a special ninja secret kiwibiker wave?

No doubt a Honda rider will have the answer to that.Or possibly Dangerousbastard will know,cost you an arm and leg to pry it from him methinks.

[Tank]

No doubt a Honda rider will have the answer to that.

Ive never ridden a Honda - but I've been told that technically what they do isnt 'waving'

[98tls]

Ive never ridden a Honda - but I've been told that technically what they do isnt 'waving'
Possibly not,just assumed all that frantic wrist action was:eek5:shit maybe your right.

[Hitcher]

For people to understand that its fair to be told the truth by those who supposedly lead us, that people can hold those leaders trying to gain our allegiance so that they might govern, to their word.

Bananas on toast are nice with a sprinkling of brown sugar and cinnamon.

[98tls]

Bananas on toast are nice with a sprinkling of brown sugar and cinnamon.

Brown sugar and Bananas;)Hitch your a bad bad man.:oi-grr:

[peasea]

Ive never ridden a Honda - but I've been told that technically what they do isnt 'waving'

More like 'weaving'.

[Tank]

Bananas on toast are nice with a sprinkling of brown sugar and cinnamon.

Crunchy peanut butter on vogels for the win.

[Str8 Jacket]

Crunchy peanut butter on vogels for the win.

See, I prefer marmite...

[MSTRS]

Vegemite's more popular

[Str8 Jacket]

Vegemite's more popular

Don't like vegemite meself....

[freedom-wedge]

Interesting comments in response, my point is that the culture of untruth starts at the top, and manifests its self everywhere below even within that copper who has you on the side of the road telling you lies about what he saw you do or didnt do, its an accepted culture, and one that wont allow you a fair day in court. I,m a newbie so flame away if you like, im just finding my way around.

Yeah free scot watson, what a travesty of justice,

Pedro

[NighthawkNZ]

Oh, government problem huh? Learn from Monopoly the board game.
The board game encourages the players to evade taxes. It's normal to pass on the INCOME TAX and LUXURY TAX.

Well the board game Monopoly is not far from the truth the banks run the country and the are privately owned... just like in the game the bank owns everything from the start and owns everything in the end

[wbks]

Interesting comments in response, my point is that the culture of untruth starts at the top, and manifests its self everywhere below even within that copper who has you on the side of the road telling you lies about what he saw you do or didnt do, its an accepted culture, and one that wont allow you a fair day in court. I,m a newbie so flame away if you like, im just finding my way around.

Yeah free scot watson, what a travesty of justice,

PedroWelcome to western culture, where people constantly want change... Without actual change or sacrifice. Hence "Socialist" is a bad word

[Str8 Jacket]

Interesting comments in response, my point is that the culture of untruth starts at the top, and manifests its self everywhere

See, that's how vegemites made. That's why I prefer Marmite. I aint flaming you, I am grateful for the info, thanks! ;)

[Oscar]

well Im a deaf buggar, but I,m sure key said he wouldnt raise gst ???

You are a deaf bugger.
He said he wouldn't raise GST to finance the increased fiscal deficit caused by the recession.
It was an answer to a specific question that has been removed from the sound bite..

[freedom-wedge]

You are a deaf bugger.
He said he wouldn't raise GST to finance the increased fiscal deficit caused by the recession.
It was an answer to a specific question that has been removed from the sound bite..

explain why its being raised then,

pedro

[Oscar]

Interesting comments in response, my point is that the culture of untruth starts at the top, and manifests its self everywhere below even within that copper who has you on the side of the road telling you lies about what he saw you do or didnt do, its an accepted culture, and one that wont allow you a fair day in court. I,m a newbie so flame away if you like, im just finding my way around.

Yeah free scot watson, what a travesty of justice,

Pedro

So exactly what are you talking about?
Do you have a specific point to make, some examples of "untruth"?
Or are you just hiding from the black helicopters under your tin foil hat?

[Oscar]

explain why its being raised then,

pedro

Because some people can't handle more than a couple of seconds of mental stimulation at a time.
They like the story to be thought out for them...

Have you watched the entire interview?

Edit - I thought he was referring to raising the subject of Keys interview, now it dawns on me it's the raising of GST.
GST is being raised in an attempt to a) make the tax system fairer, b) stimulate the economy and c) pay the large debt the country is racking up.

[freedom-wedge]

I did as it happens, and it eluded to many things we should worry about, look when they got in he admitted that they didnt have a mandate to start wholesale change, but whats gone on since ?? if not for the waste of assets and the lies told to justify actions, we would not be one of the heaviest taxed countries, my beef is the lack of truth, or deliberatly making statements misleading, its where it all starts to go wrong,

Pedro

[Oscar]

I did as it happens, and it eluded to many things we should worry about, look when they got in he admitted that they didnt have a mandate to start wholesale change, but whats gone on since ?? if not for the waste of assets and the lies told to justify actions, we would not be one of the heaviest taxed countries, my beef is the lack of truth, or deliberatly making statements misleading, its where it all starts to go wrong,

Pedro

So have you a specific point to make?
A scintilla of evidence to back up your rather empty statements?

[Fatt Max]

I had a root this morining in the shower.......just thought I would tell you that seeing as noone is talking about waving anymore......

[Oscar]

I had a root this morining in the shower.......just thought I would tell you that seeing as noone is talking about waving anymore......

How was Mrs. Palmer?

[Fatt Max]

How was Mrs. Palmer?

Feck it, busted......stop hanging around in my garden will you.

Oh, she was fine and her 5 daughters were filthy as usual....

[Oscar]

Feck it, busted......stop hanging around in my garden will you.

Oh, she was fine and her 5 daughters were filthy as usual....

'Bout time you trimmed those Hydrangeas, ain't it?

[Str8 Jacket]

I just discovered that Hot cross buns are on sale... mmmmmnomnom

[freedom-wedge]

So have you a specific point to make?
A scintilla of evidence to back up your rather empty statements?

You obviously beleive whats written in the papers and gov releases to be honest truth, my statements arnt empty, lies are and have been told its plain to see, and I,m refering to the political machine, it runs these days trying to baffle, and bullshit certainly works for most people.

Pedro

[Str8 Jacket]

, it runs these days trying to baffle,

Ah, some motorcycle talk. Take the baffles out if you want more attention!

[Fatt Max]

I just discovered that Hot cross buns are on sale... mmmmmnomnom

Fuck it, where, where, where....!!!

[MSTRS]

I just discovered that Hot cross buns are on sale... mmmmmnomnom

Put the Marmite DOWN. NOW!
Here - try some marmalade.

[Str8 Jacket]

Put the Marmite DOWN. NOW!
Here - try some marmalade.

mmm, marmalade... Though I just prefer butter on mine. :yes:

[freedom-wedge]

I,m eating ginger marmalade, its an interesting twist fellas

[Str8 Jacket]

I,m eating ginger marmalade, its an interesting twist fellas

We dont like Ginga's round here mate.

[MSTRS]

I,m eating ginger marmalade, its an interesting twist fellas

*holds up crossed fore-fingers and hisses*
That's not proper marmalade...not with (shudder) ginger involved.

[freedom-wedge]

We dont like Ginga's round here mate.

gulp:eek5:

[freedom-wedge]

I thought ya all were tolerant and inergraded:wacko:

[sinned]

I thought ya all were tolerant and inergraded:wacko:
You wont find much tolerance on KB for a dweeb who joined a motorcycle forum just to make a moronic political post. Why don't you man up and post to kiwiblog (http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz) to see what real intolerance is like.

[Fatt Max]

We dont like Ginga's round here mate.

Thats a bit harsh, as long as the collars and cuffs match, who's looking?

[freedom-wedge]

You wont find much tolerance on KB for a dweeb who joined a motorcycle forum just to make a moronic political post. Why don't you man up and post to kiwiblog (http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz) to see what real intolerance is like.

fuck sake dude, breathing to day is a political issue, I can hack anything you say, unless its all lies

[freedom-wedge]

Thats a bit harsh, as long as the collars and cuffs match, who's looking?

now thats funny, simplistic but hey, youve probably got a big fat turtle head wanting to get out aye , all in jest

[Str8 Jacket]

now thats funny, simplistic but hey, youve probably got a big fat turtle head wanting to get out aye , all in jest

Can you wheelie your street majic Mister? Is it a 50 or a 110?

[freedom-wedge]

Can you wheelie your street majic Mister? Is it a 50 or a 110?

its a 50 and, Im a little heavy for it, its a cool little bike, I do ride it hard if that counts ;)

[Oscar]

You obviously beleive whats written in the papers and gov releases to be honest truth, my statements arnt empty, lies are and have been told its plain to see, and I,m refering to the political machine, it runs these days trying to baffle, and bullshit certainly works for most people.

Pedro

So you got nuthin', then?

[MisterD]

So you got nuthin', then?

No Oscar, he's got his talking points from whatever labour party staffer's handing them out this week. Honestly, this is KB it doesn't work like talkback radio...

...and in other news JK's popularity is at it highest ever, Phil "in" Goff has nearly caught Clarkula in the preferred PM stakes and the Watermelons are below 5% - I think the intermaweb terminology is ROFL

[Fatt Max]

now thats funny, simplistic but hey, youve probably got a big fat turtle head wanting to get out aye , all in jest

Mate, I have a turd so big stuffed up me rusty that I reckon it will be half way to Mangere Treatment Plant before it snaps off my arse

[MSTRS]

I thought ya all were tolerant and inergraded:wacko:We're tolerant. After a fashion...

[sinned]

A bit of info about this freedom-wedge is called for. Lives in Taranaki, rides a SM - yeh right? Maybe Pussy could could go check him out or a mod could check the IP address - see if these posts are orginating from a political office.

[freedom-wedge]

A bit of info about this freedom-wedge is called for. Lives in Taranaki, rides a SM - yeh right? Maybe Pussy could could go check him out or a mod could check the IP address - see if these posts are orginating from a political office.

I have no government ties, the mod could check my ip if your that concerned, my original post was to find out if people understood the concept of government honesty, or the lack of it shall we say or not, motorcyclists are being lied to, and unfairly levied against, but there not the only groups affected. Spin and propaganda and the normalising of the so called unthinkable are what you can expect, when a government is allowed to act against individual groups, thats whats happening with the raising of the registration costs for motorcycles, youve all heard this before, all Im pointing out is that the lack of honesty from those pushing this agenda and others is to blame, they know they will win in the end and your all gonna pay way more than your share to use the road, it will happen becuase the figures presented to justify these charges are the desired ones and you wouldnt know any different. Successive governmenst have been the problem, not just one party.

My interests are personal freedoms and the slow and steady removal of liberty and that only. I dont even know where your comming from oscar, and yeah I got nothin you would be interested in hearing.

Pedro in the naki with a small one

[Virago]

A bit of info about this freedom-wedge is called for. Lives in Taranaki, rides a SM - yeh right? Maybe Pussy could could go check him out or a mod could check the IP address - see if these posts are orginating from a political office.

The original post was completely unintelligable - no self-respecting political organisation would ever admit responsibility.

[freedom-wedge]

[QUOTE=freedom-wedge;1129646454]For people to understand that its fair to be told the truth by those who supposedly lead us, that people can hold those leaders trying to gain our allegiance so that they might govern, to their word. :angry2:[/QUOTE

Perhaps what i should of said was, look fellas vote for me in the next election, I promise not to raise rego,s on motorcycles, I,ll go one better I,ll reduce the tax on yer tyre's, im voted in, and its all bets are off, it seems you naughty boys and girls are causing to many accidents with cars, the country cant afford your rehab, I,m raisning the ACC levey, what about the tax releif on me tyre,s, oh yeah we will address that at the next election, you would of all forgotten by then anyway or blind sided by my new bill, more than 4 motorcycles traveling together is an unlawfull convoy and a disruption to the automobile. No way of it happening aye, yeah right,

I,ll ride with no rego my arse, its tax fraud, get cuaght more than twice you will be filling a private prison bed in the future, run by they who run that holiday inn in cuba, its all comming to a town near you.

Pedro

[Str8 Jacket]

, I,m raisning the ACC levey,

I thought we were talking about breakfast food? I've never tried raisins on my toast before. However I think that they may have been in my hot x buns yesterday....

[devnull]

The original post was completely unintelligable - no self-respecting political organisation would ever admit responsibility.

So Greens then... :buggerd:

Voltaire said it best - that the best form of govt was a democracy, tempered by assassination

[freedom-wedge]

I thought we were talking about breakfast food? I've never tried raisins on my toast before. However I think that they may have been in my hot x buns yesterday....

grins, they sneak stuff in so be carefull from now on

pedro

[Oscar]

My interests are personal freedoms and the slow and steady removal of liberty and that only. I dont even know where your comming from oscar, and yeah I got nothin you would be interested in hearing.

Pedro in the naki with a small one

The only freedom you appear to be interested in is the right to blather.
You talk in orotundities and have yet to actually post one fact.

Which freedoms have you lost?

[freedom-wedge]

The only freedom you appear to be interested in is the right to blather.
You talk in orotundities and have yet to actually post one fact.

Which freedoms have you lost?

the right of free speach you mean by blather, well yes, and for the rest youve missed the point entirly, you know whats going on in this country or your heads where the sun dosnt shine or worse your a reformist yourself,

do some reaserch on the loss of liberty in this country

Pedro

[Oscar]

the right of free speach you mean by blather, well yes, and for the rest youve missed the point entirly, you know whats going on in this country or your heads where the sun dosnt shine or worse your a reformist yourself,

do some reaserch on the loss of liberty in this country

Pedro

No, by blather I mean your generalised and unsupported comments, coupled with a singular failure to get to anything resembling a point.

What part of free speech is under threat, for example?


Notwithstanding that, why should I research anything? It's your thread.

[Swoop]

the culture of untruth starts at the top, and manifests its self everywhere below.

Yeah free scot watson, what a travesty of justice,

Pedro
Nice tinfoil hat you have there. Did you get it at Hallensteins? You can put "Free Scott Watson" as your sig. if you like.

The original post was completely unintelligable - no self-respecting political organisation would ever admit responsibility.
Definately green party then.:thud:

some reaserch
OK. Possible university student if the spelling is this good...

[Skyryder]

the right of free speach you mean by blather, well yes, and for the rest youve missed the point entirly, you know whats going on in this country or your heads where the sun dosnt shine or worse your a reformist yourself,

do some reaserch on the loss of liberty in this country

Pedro

I'll do it for them.

CRIMESTOPPERS. An organization run by Key’s mate Lord Ashcroft that allows Kiwis to make any kind of criminal allegation against anybody at all...........anonymously. This allegation is stored overseas out of reach of the NZ legal system.............and can not be accessed by the accused by any legal means at all. The information is passed on to the NZ Police who check the 'integrity' of the information. The Police have no idea who made it or whether it is fact until it has been checked.


Skyryder

[Oscar]

I'll do it for them.

CRIMESTOPPERS. An organization run by Key’s mate Lord Ashcroft that allows Kiwis to make any kind of criminal allegation against anybody at all...........anonymously. This allegation is stored overseas out of reach of the NZ legal system.............and can not be accessed by the accused by any legal means at all. The information is passed on to the NZ Police who check the 'integrity' of the information. The Police have no idea who made it or whether it is fact until it has been checked.


Skyryder

So what?
If the Police don't act on it until they've checked it, what's the problem?
Notwithstanding that, if it's stored in the UK, it's within reach of their legal system (the UK has liable and slander laws, too).
And if they had some info. (say someone had some knowledge that could free Scott Watson) what you say if they ignored it?

[freedom-wedge]

No, by blather I mean your generalised and unsupported comments, coupled with a singular failure to get to anything resembling a point.

What part of free speech is under threat, for example?


Notwithstanding that, why should I research anything? It's your thread.

Suppression of testimony within the court system is one area, witnesses vital to defence barred from talking to the jury, its then becomes a total gag where terms of imprisonment are available for contempt should you continue, its happening all the time, we dont get to hear about it at all unless you happen to be sitting in court, it happend At Scott Watsons trial and many others where a fully informed jury might have come to a different conclusion. The attempt to remove juries for offences with a maximum of three years, will just make this process easier, you will not have the right to speak freely in your own defence in certain courts where a huge ego,s resides. There are many area of concern and they are complex and are creeping slowly into normalisation. Its obvious to me and I said earleir I have nothing that you would want to hear anyway.

Pedro

[freedom-wedge]

So what?
If the Police don't act on it until they've checked it, what's the problem?
Notwithstanding that, if it's stored in the UK, it's within reach of their legal system (the UK has liable and slander laws, too).
And if they had some info. (say someone had some knowledge that could free Scott Watson) what you say if they ignored it?

sadly in this country that sort of information might not make it to relevent ears anyway, the crime line is open to abuse by all parties as well as being of good use in curtailing crime, the abuse however will outweigh its correct use I feel, time will tell, even then very few people will be privy to its actual effect regardless and a few amongst us will of been canned for nothin at all except for standing up and being defiant in the face of ridiculous claims. The amount of hear say used in persuit of prosecution today to mask the lack of hard evidence should alarm most people.

[Pascal]

Pedro, Pedro, Pedro. What are we going to do with you? You take a quote out of context and call it a lie. There's your first mistake. Then, you insist that people stubbornly cling to one path, even when that path is shown to be incorrect. Are you that stupid? Would you personally, blindly follow one path when you know it is wrong and will end in a disaster?

If you would, this conversation cannot go anywhere.

But if you would not, why do you think a government should?

[freedom-wedge]

You are a deaf bugger.
He said he wouldn't raise GST to finance the increased fiscal deficit caused by the recession.
It was an answer to a specific question that has been removed from the sound bite..

I wont speed to get to my daughters wedding, is snapped at 110kph , I thought you said you wouldnt speed ?, I said I wouldnt speed to my daughters wedding, I,m on my way to the stock exchange. just clever stuff.

[Pascal]

In fact, thinking about this. Pedro, you are calling a man a liar by misrepresenting what he has said. Doesn't that make you a big fat liar too? I think it does.

[Str8 Jacket]

Sultana's anyone?

[freedom-wedge]

Pedro, Pedro, Pedro. What are we going to do with you? You take a quote out of context and call it a lie. There's your first mistake. Then, you insist that people stubbornly cling to one path, even when that path is shown to be incorrect. Are you that stupid? Would you personally, blindly follow one path when you know it is wrong and will end in a disaster?

If you would, this conversation cannot go anywhere.

But if you would not, why do you think a government should?

Point taken, I might ammend that particular statment as deliberatley misleading, these days I would never willingly travel a path where deceit and dishonesty were normalised, I believe this is fast becomming the case, once upon a time we were either in the group of people that believed in the contents of the peice of paper Chaimerlain waved aloft when he got off the plane from Germany in the 30s or you knew it to be just a matter of time before the face off.

More transparity is whats needed .

[freedom-wedge]

In fact, thinking about this. Pedro, you are calling a man a liar by misrepresenting what he has said. Doesn't that make you a big fat liar too? I think it does.

like I said I validate your point, I,m not fat however nor a liar, you must of voted for him if it upsets you so much ?

[Pascal]

like I said I validate your point, I,m not fat however nor a liar, you must of voted for him if it upsets you so much ?

Actually no, but that's beside the point. I just dislike dishonest people.

[Oscar]

Its obvious to me and I said earleir I have nothing that you would want to hear anyway.

Pedro

Still got nuthin' huh?

[Oscar]

I wont speed to get to my daughters wedding, is snapped at 110kph , I thought you said you wouldnt speed ?, I said I wouldnt speed to my daughters wedding, I,m on my way to the stock exchange. just clever stuff.

The man was asked if he'd raise GST to fund the deficit.
He said no.



Sadly your comprehension is as bad as your grammar and spelling.

[MSTRS]

Sultana's anyone?

With mint, on a sandwich. Yum...

[SMOKEU]

yay for national

Fuck National

[Mully]

CRIMESTOPPERS. An organization run by Key’s mate Lord Ashcroft that allows Kiwis to make any kind of criminal allegation against anybody at all...........anonymously. This allegation is stored overseas out of reach of the NZ legal system.............and can not be accessed by the accused by any legal means at all. The information is passed on to the NZ Police who check the 'integrity' of the information. The Police have no idea who made it or whether it is fact until it has been checked.

Bastards.

Can't you ring the local Plod (anonymously) and report whatever you want anyway? Particularly in these days of prepaid cellphones and throwaway SIM cards.

And don't the police usually assess the 'integrity" of that information before they run out and arrest anybody?

And don't the police have no idea if what they've been told is fact until they check it out anyway?

Of all the examples of "loss of liberty" in this country that you could have used, the choice to this one's a shocker. Of course, it's pretty obvious to all you just wanted to make your point using "John Key's mate" but still.

I expected better from you.

[mashman]

More transparity is whats needed .

Ya reckon you'll really get transparency! Who will measure what has been made transparent? what will it cost to measure that transparency? where is the check list to validate that what was actually done has met the criteria of what's transparent? who makes up the transparency check list? etc...

It won't happen, because it's not practical and will only be open to the usual twisting and turning of spin and lawyers!

[sinned]

You are a deaf bugger.
He said he wouldn't raise GST to finance the increased fiscal deficit caused by the recession.
It was an answer to a specific question that has been removed from the sound bite..


I wont speed to get to my daughters wedding, is snapped at 110kph , I thought you said you wouldnt speed ?, I said I wouldnt speed to my daughters wedding, I,m on my way to the stock exchange. just clever stuff.
"clever stuff" or just the truth?
BTW poor example again - why would you be speeding to your daughters wedding? - would you not be in the wedding car with your daughter and instructing the driver to drive slow so bride to be did not arrive early?

[freedom-wedge]

Ya reckon you'll really get transparency! Who will measure what has been made transparent? what will it cost to measure that transparency? where is the check list to validate that what was actually done has met the criteria of what's transparent? who makes up the transparency check list? etc...

It won't happen, because it's not practical and will only be open to the usual twisting and turning of spin and lawyers!

No I dont think we ever will get that, but this old financial way of doing things is older than old, Spin is resposible for many things, one can be tried in court using it.

[freedom-wedge]

"clever stuff" or just the truth?
BTW poor example again - why would you be speeding to your daughters wedding? - would you not be in the wedding car with your daughter and instructing the driver to drive slow so bride to be did not arrive early?

I migh of been speeding, but hey the driver can take the fall,

[freedom-wedge]

The man was asked if he'd raise GST to fund the deficit.
He said no.



Sadly your comprehension is as bad as your grammar and spelling.

granted on the latter, the first well I think your to one eyed to understand that when asked these questions, a prime minister or an inteded one, should be looking to reasure the public, in this day and age it wouldnt be unreasonable to expect that he was prept before hand and the question written by his people just to mislead, if you dont like my words or they way they are written dont read them

[freedom-wedge]

" And don't the police have no idea if what they've been told is fact until they check it out anyway? "

They are just as able to call this line themselves in order to obtain a dodgy warrant, why not if they get their way with the current search and Seizure bill it would make perfect sense, have your read or know anything about this bill ?? I understand why skyryder brought up the subject and it was valid dispite your disapointment.

[freedom-wedge]

Still got nuthin' huh?

still got nuthing

[freedom-wedge]

Actually no, but that's beside the point. I just dislike dishonest people.

so you would dislike Mr English for his misuse of public funds regarding his mp's housing allowance ?? while telling us all at the exact same time to tighten our belts. hes not the only one either, if we were gulity of such, we would face the full noise in court, he and his own sorted things to better suit themselves in the aftermath, they did so becuase poeple like you dont really know whats going on or its alright with you to be that way, get out of your warm bath and shake the sand off your head, were being mislead daily, the reason for that is becuase were still waffling about yeasterdays breach of ethics so that we miss the important one today.

Our Pm's been grinning like a cat on tv of late regarding his response to questioning about rasing gst, I remember him flatly telling the NZ public after his election win that they didnt have the mandate for serious change, honestly dude sheesh

I havent given up hope of there being a straight up politico yet are there any nominations ???

[Str8 Jacket]

mmm, whittakers almond slab! No raisins or sultana's, simply delightful! :D

[Pascal]

I havent given up hope of there being a straight up politico yet are there any nominations ???

Don't know. You're not straight up, so why do you hold them accountable to a different standard than you hold yourself?

Second Whittakers. Bloody awesome and still made in NZ.

[Oscar]

granted on the latter, the first well I think your to one eyed to understand that when asked these questions, a prime minister or an inteded one, should be looking to reasure the public, in this day and age it wouldnt be unreasonable to expect that he was prept before hand and the question written by his people just to mislead, if you dont like my words or they way they are written dont read them

He was reassuring his people - i.e. that he wouldn't raise GST to fund the deficit - why is this a problem for you?

I'm actually not bothered what you say or how you say it, because you never actually say much beyond vague inferences.

[MisterD]

so you would dislike Mr English for his misuse of public funds regarding his mp's housing allowance ?? while telling us all at the exact same time to tighten our belts. hes not the only one either, if we were gulity of such, we would face the full noise in court, he and his own sorted things to better suit themselves in the aftermath, they did so becuase poeple like you dont really know whats going on or its alright with you to be that way, get out of your warm bath and shake the sand off your head, were being mislead daily, the reason for that is becuase were still waffling about yeasterdays breach of ethics so that we miss the important one today.

Jaysus if this wasn't done to death on here at the time...did you also miss the fact that the auditor general investigated and said he'd done nothing wrong? Hmm?



Our Pm's been grinning like a cat on tv of late regarding his response to questioning about rasing gst, I remember him flatly telling the NZ public after his election win that they didnt have the mandate for serious change, honestly dude sheesh

I havent given up hope of there being a straight up politico yet are there any nominations ???

politics 101...shit changes and you can't keep everything that looks like a promise, it's therefore sensible to contradict a random utterance in response to a specific question in an interview, than anything that was like in the actual manifesto.

IMO the valid criticism of Key at the moment is that he had all the ammo from the tax working group to make serious changes to a broken tax system and instead he's flown a couple of little kites on what he might do.

Bring back Sir Rog!

[Skyryder]

Bananas on toast are nice with a sprinkling of brown sugar and cinnamon.

With runny fresh cream.. Not whipped..............gota be runny. Straight from the seperator is best. But not possible for us townies.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

So what?
If the Police don't act on it until they've checked it, what's the problem?
Notwithstanding that, if it's stored in the UK, it's within reach of their legal system (the UK has liable and slander laws, too).
And if they had some info. (say someone had some knowledge that could free Scott Watson) what you say if they ignored it?

There's no problem with the police checking out the information as to its verification. That's not the issue. The problem is that this information is stored in another county and with a private orgaisation tha tis not subject to our laws. i simply hold the view that if information is held on a New Zealsnd citizen that information should be subject to the Privacy Act and said information held in our country. Key in his infinite wsidom thinks otherwise as do you. I don't.


Skyryder

[Oscar]

There's no problem with the police checking out the information as to its verification. That's not the issue. The problem is that this information is stored in another county and with a private orgaisation tha tis not subject to our laws. i simply hold the view that if information is held on a New Zealsnd citizen that information should be subject to the Privacy Act and said information held in our country. Key in his infinite wsidom thinks otherwise as do you. I don't.


Skyryder

There's a whole lot of information held by foreign companies and governments on NZers.
To be upset by one in particular is naive.

[freedom-wedge]

Don't know. You're not straight up, so why do you hold them accountable to a different standard than you hold yourself?

Second Whittakers. Bloody awesome and still made in NZ.


I,m not straight up why, becuase I saw it a little differently than you, come on, double speak and misleading commentry are the norm these days, we are right to mistrust agendas and even material created by mainstreem media.

agreed about supporting Whittakers, Cadbury and any other company who migrates, reducuing our workforce in the process need a good dose of consumer back lash,

[freedom-wedge]

Jaysus if this wasn't done to death on here at the time...did you also miss the fact that the auditor general investigated and said he'd done nothing wrong? Hmm?


politics 101...shit changes and you can't keep everything that looks like a promise, it's therefore sensible to contradict a random utterance in response to a specific question in an interview, than anything that was like in the actual manifesto.


IMO the valid criticism of Key at the moment is that he had all the ammo from the tax working group to make serious changes to a broken tax system and instead he's flown a couple of little kites on what he might do.

Also agreed

Bring back Sir Rog!

your first point = It may of been so, but reports from that office can be influenced politically, as can the idependant police complaints authority, and even the privacy commision, If I remember he paid some money back in the end ??

your second point = agreed but bring back sir Rog ?
Now I think youve had quite enough caaafffffiieeeennnneeeee

[oldrider]

For people to understand that its fair to be told the truth by those who supposedly lead us, that people can hold those leaders trying to gain our allegiance so that they might govern, to their word. :angry2:

STV is probably a better bet than MMP for a start!

[freedom-wedge]

There's a whole lot of information held by foreign companies and governments on NZers.
To be upset by one in particular is naive.

naivety is a form of innocence, somthing that we are slowly loosing, the right to be presumed I mean, this is just one more tool open to abuse that will bring about that end, read the subject matter in the S & S bill being read in parliment, and see the powers police will have if they detain you, and remember that they can use a call from a disgruntled work mate who used the crime line just to get back at you, hes fine, there will be no come back for him, this is far more serious than a company holding information on NZers

[avgas]

For people to understand that its fair to be told the truth by those who supposedly lead us, that people can hold those leaders trying to gain our allegiance so that they might govern, to their word. :angry2:
Rocks from the skies and great rumbles of earth.
For that is how the prophecy is foretold

[Oscar]

naivety is a form of innocence, somthing that we are slowly loosing, the right to be presumed I mean, this is just one more tool open to abuse that will bring about that end, read the subject matter in the S & S bill being read in parliment, and see the powers police will have if they detain you, and remember that they can use a call from a disgruntled work mate who used the crime line just to get back at you, hes fine, there will be no come back for him, this is far more serious than a company holding information on NZers

Are you saying the police can detain you based on rumour?
Have you heard of habeas corpus?

And speaking of rumours and disinformation, you have yet to present one scrap of evidence for your meanderings. I mean, have you one example to back up your assertions?

[freedom-wedge]

This is but a few of the desired wish list

The bill is meant to streamline search and surveillance, by redefining not only police powers but also the powers of over 70 government agencies- called ‘enforcement officers’ in the bill. However, the bill does much more than that. It effectively gives police powers to agencies such as Work and Income and the even the Pork Board.

Dramatic Increase in Powers
Basically, once this bill becomes law, state power increases and search and surveillance become open slather. The Bill treats a single search and on-going surveillance as one and the same thing. For example, installing a video camera in a home for a month is treated the same as a one-off search of a car; taking a copy of an entire hard disk (with all kinds of information on it, some possibly covered by a search warrant, other intimately private) is considered no different than making photocopies of business files, and all enforcement officers have the same powers, regardless of the purpose of their job.

The Right to Silence
When this bill becomes law, the right to silence will effectively no longer exist. Using an Examination Order the police can demand that you report to them for questioning. The criterion is that they suspect you of being involved with two or more people in the commission (or plotting) of any offence punishable by imprisonment. Even extremely minor offences such as trespass or disorderly behaviour would qualify.

The only way you can refuse this order is to cite a bit of legal jargon: ‘Section 60 of the Evidence Act’ and claim ‘privilege against self-incrimination’. But even if you happen to know this, it may not help-you can be ordered in front of a judge where you then have to offer evidence as to why you would be likely to incriminate yourself if you talked: the ultimate Catch-22.

Examination Orders
Examination Orders last for up to thirty days and the only penalty available for refusing to comply is a maximum of one year’s imprisonment.

These Orders weren’t part of the Law Commission’s original report to Parliament. They were inserted into the bill by the Labour government on the pretext that the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) was going to be abolished; but the National government has decided to keep the SFO
.
When the SFO was created, there were many of us who opposed it. We argued that sooner or later their powers would be transferred to the police and applied outside of the business context. We were right.


The Right Not to Participate in Proving your own Guilt
Current practice is that the police have to provide all the evidence to prove a person is guilty-next year they can sit back and order you to produce some of that evidence. Instead of getting a search warrant, they will be able to apply for a Production Order. This will require you to produce documents you are suspected of having (or will have in the future) and is available to any enforcement
officer covered by the Act. If you refuse to supply the documentation, the sentence is a maximum of one year’s imprisonment.

Surveillance Devices
Surveillance devices include bugs, video cameras and tracking devices for cars. Currently, there are no specific laws regulating surveillance on private property. Police need a warrant to enter your house and install a listening bug. Video surveillance by police inside a house or other private place is currently illegal. Police do it anyway knowing that most judges will admit it as evidence. That will change with this bill. It introduces the concept of a surveillance device warrant, which can be obtained by any enforcement officer (not just police) under the same criteria as a search warrant – that is, the suspicion that the search (or surveillance) will uncover evidential material necessary for a prosecution of a crime. This equates on-going video surveillance with a one-off search.

This contrasts to legislation elsewhere. In the US, Canada and a number of European countries, phone bugging and installing a surveillance camera in a home is treated as a much more serious invasion of privacy than a search. In order to get a surveillance warrant, police have to demonstrate that other ways of obtaining the evidence have failed. In the new bill, there is no such restriction.

Plain View Searches
There is no restriction on the use of any thing the police find during a search or surveillance operation. Using ‘plain view’, if the surveillance data shows evidence of a different offence than that for which the warrant was obtained then that material can still be used in court. The same applies for a search warrant. ‘Plain view’ is an opportunity to ‘have a nosy’ at what else is around.

Warrant-less Searches
Once you are arrested or even simply detained, the police and enforcement officers are able to search your home, workplace, car, friend’s home or any place with which you are associated, without a warrant if they believe they can find evidential material related to the offence. This power, combined with ‘plain view’ searches is a nightmare. Whilst you are sitting in the cells, your home can be turned upside down with no warrant.

Similarly, a warrant will not needed to record a conversation when two or more people are talking if one person consents to a recording of the conversation. This person could be an undercover cop sitting in a meeting, someone employed by an ‘enforcement officer’ or a friendly person at the bar. A warrant is needed for a computer search, however this warrant allows them to have access to your entire hard-drive and then using plain view they can trawl through other information not on the warrant.

[Oscar]

This is but a few of the desired wish list

The bill is meant to streamline search and surveillance, by redefining not only police powers but also the powers of over 70 government agencies- called ‘enforcement officers’ in the bill. However, the bill does much more than that. It effectively gives police powers to agencies such as Work and Income and the even the Pork Board.

Dramatic Increase in Powers
Basically, once this bill becomes law, state power increases and search and surveillance become open slather. The Bill treats a single search and on-going surveillance as one and the same thing. For example, installing a video camera in a home for a month is treated the same as a one-off search of a car; taking a copy of an entire hard disk (with all kinds of information on it, some possibly covered by a search warrant, other intimately private) is considered no different than making photocopies of business files, and all enforcement officers have the same powers, regardless of the purpose of their job.

The Right to Silence
When this bill becomes law, the right to silence will effectively no longer exist. Using an Examination Order the police can demand that you report to them for questioning. The criterion is that they suspect you of being involved with two or more people in the commission (or plotting) of any offence punishable by imprisonment. Even extremely minor offences such as trespass or disorderly behaviour would qualify.

The only way you can refuse this order is to cite a bit of legal jargon: ‘Section 60 of the Evidence Act’ and claim ‘privilege against self-incrimination’. But even if you happen to know this, it may not help-you can be ordered in front of a judge where you then have to offer evidence as to why you would be likely to incriminate yourself if you talked: the ultimate Catch-22.

Examination Orders
Examination Orders last for up to thirty days and the only penalty available for refusing to comply is a maximum of one year’s imprisonment.

These Orders weren’t part of the Law Commission’s original report to Parliament. They were inserted into the bill by the Labour government on the pretext that the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) was going to be abolished; but the National government has decided to keep the SFO
.
When the SFO was created, there were many of us who opposed it. We argued that sooner or later their powers would be transferred to the police and applied outside of the business context. We were right.


The Right Not to Participate in Proving your own Guilt
Current practice is that the police have to provide all the evidence to prove a person is guilty-next year they can sit back and order you to produce some of that evidence. Instead of getting a search warrant, they will be able to apply for a Production Order. This will require you to produce documents you are suspected of having (or will have in the future) and is available to any enforcement
officer covered by the Act. If you refuse to supply the documentation, the sentence is a maximum of one year’s imprisonment.

Surveillance Devices
Surveillance devices include bugs, video cameras and tracking devices for cars. Currently, there are no specific laws regulating surveillance on private property. Police need a warrant to enter your house and install a listening bug. Video surveillance by police inside a house or other private place is currently illegal. Police do it anyway knowing that most judges will admit it as evidence. That will change with this bill. It introduces the concept of a surveillance device warrant, which can be obtained by any enforcement officer (not just police) under the same criteria as a search warrant – that is, the suspicion that the search (or surveillance) will uncover evidential material necessary for a prosecution of a crime. This equates on-going video surveillance with a one-off search.

This contrasts to legislation elsewhere. In the US, Canada and a number of European countries, phone bugging and installing a surveillance camera in a home is treated as a much more serious invasion of privacy than a search. In order to get a surveillance warrant, police have to demonstrate that other ways of obtaining the evidence have failed. In the new bill, there is no such restriction.

Plain View Searches
There is no restriction on the use of any thing the police find during a search or surveillance operation. Using ‘plain view’, if the surveillance data shows evidence of a different offence than that for which the warrant was obtained then that material can still be used in court. The same applies for a search warrant. ‘Plain view’ is an opportunity to ‘have a nosy’ at what else is around.

Warrant-less Searches
Once you are arrested or even simply detained, the police and enforcement officers are able to search your home, workplace, car, friend’s home or any place with which you are associated, without a warrant if they believe they can find evidential material related to the offence. This power, combined with ‘plain view’ searches is a nightmare. Whilst you are sitting in the cells, your home can be turned upside down with no warrant.

Similarly, a warrant will not needed to record a conversation when two or more people are talking if one person consents to a recording of the conversation. This person could be an undercover cop sitting in a meeting, someone employed by an ‘enforcement officer’ or a friendly person at the bar. A warrant is needed for a computer search, however this warrant allows them to have access to your entire hard-drive and then using plain view they can trawl through other information not on the warrant.

Who wrote this?

[freedom-wedge]

Are you saying the police can detain you based on rumour?
Have you heard of habeas corpus?

And speaking of rumours and disinformation, you have yet to present one scrap of evidence for your meanderings. I mean, have you one example to back up your assertions?

habeas corpus? as in Bring out the body, why yes, its being ignored largely these days, in favour of hear say, it will be as relavent soon as the presumtion of innocents,

and yes they can detain on rumour, a rumour started on the crime line, I,m not anti police either, thats for the record

[Oscar]

habeas corpus? as in Bring out the body, why yes, its being ignored largely these days, in favour of hear say, it will be as relavent soon as the presumtion of innocents,

and yes they can detain on rumour, a rumour started on the crime line, I,m not anti police either, thats for the record

Do you have an example?

[freedom-wedge]

Who wrote this?

its printed on a few websites, longer and more indepth available

[freedom-wedge]

Do you have an example?

the bills not passed but I have knowledge of misuse of the powers that the police have now, but its a he said she said issue unless I produce names times and other, all Im trying to do is to show you what could happen, and in my opinion what is likely to happen, there are some hard line law reformists who were in support of the bill who are now not so convinced should we say, The police can do just as good a job these days without having these tools added to their kit

[Oscar]

its printed on a few websites, longer and more indepth available


Why don't you acknowledge the author?

[Oscar]

So you got nuthin', as usual?

[imdying]

Oh goodness, another idealist hippy about to get a KB pounding, whatever next :laugh:

[freedom-wedge]

Oscar your a tough man, the draft bills there for you to read, its on the gov web page I been trying to paste a link but I,m a newbie I said that already

I told my neighbour, 5 years ago that they were slowly implementing the install of water metres in Taranaki, he said bullshit man, I was watching him abusing the contratced council workers the other day for putting one in on his subdivided section, progress aye

I yes as usual I got nothing, is my spelling getting better, I,m trying

[freedom-wedge]

Oh goodness, another idealist hippy about to get a KB pounding, whatever next :laugh:

grins, its the raising of acc levies for motorcycleists thats my biggest erk of late, yeah I,m idealistic and yeah taking a KB pounding

[Str8 Jacket]

I can't decide wether to have crackers or popcorn....

[freedom-wedge]

I can't decide wether to have crackers or popcorn....

thats would depend, if you had cheese, I would go crackers, and if the popcorn was sweetend I think I would go that way, a B grade movie would suit natural popcorn,

[Str8 Jacket]

thats would depend, if you had cheese, I would go crackers, and if the popcorn was sweetend I think I would go that way, a B grade movie would suit natural popcorn,

Do you have cheese?

[freedom-wedge]

So you got nuthin', as usual?

I see your location is stated as in a state of denail, I wish I,d noticed that earlier, grin

[freedom-wedge]

Do you have cheese?

Vintage cheddar, aged 18 months they say, and some blue, i prefer summerset crackers, does that say anything about me, poor taste perhaps, smiles

[avgas]

Do you have an example?
"Terrorist acts" in NZ about 2 years ago

[Oscar]

"Terrorist acts" in NZ about 2 years ago

These people were dobbed in by Crime Stoppers?
Have you proof of this assertion?

[MisterD]

your first point = It may of been so, but reports from that office can be influenced politically, as can the idependant police complaints authority, and even the privacy commision, If I remember he paid some money back in the end ??

I think you'll find that the auditor general's office have a pretty good track record of coming out with judgements that the government of the day don't like at all...so much so that one in recent memory changed the law to validate what they did retrospectively...and that's not to say BE's situation was a good look, but it's quite possible that (as I argued at the time) the tax payer was actually ahead on the deal versus the alternative setup with him in the house that goes with his job...



your second point = agreed but bring back sir Rog ?
Now I think youve had quite enough caaafffffiieeeennnneeeee

No such thing...I run on a 3% mix just like my scoot. Petrol/oil for the lammy...alcohol/caffeine for me.

[avgas]

These people were dobbed in by Crime Stoppers?
Have you proof of this assertion?

Errr what was their crime again. The one they were ALL detained under?
I am not saying the detaining was wrong. But there is your proof in your own words.

[oldrider]

Vintage cheddar, aged 18 months they say, and some blue, i prefer summerset crackers, does that say anything about me, poor taste perhaps, smiles

2 threads and 50 posts on profile, still registering zero above right on posts, joined Feb 5 2010! What gives with that? :confused:

[freedom-wedge]

2 threads and 50 posts on profile, still registering zero above right on posts, joined Feb 5 2010! What gives with that? :confused:

Being new here i dont know what whats obviuosly, I thought i had one at least, shiiiiiite, no matter, on with the campaign to stop the rise in motorcycle levies then.

[Str8 Jacket]

Buggar, I forgot to buy Hot x Buns @ the supermarket last night....

[freedom-wedge]

These people were dobbed in by Crime Stoppers?
Have you proof of this assertion?

I think one of them was cought up in it all for buying camo pants on trade me, he faced the full surge, the charges for them all then were dodgy, and the ones that remain are also, the 18 people still facing the courts for issues normally dealt with in months are off to trail in 2011 anyhow, so much for a the right to a speedy trial.

[Oscar]

I think one of them was cought up in it all for buying camo pants on trade me, he faced the full surge, the charges for them all then were dodgy, and the ones that remain are also, the 18 people still facing the courts for issues normally dealt with in months are off to trail in 2011 anyhow, so much for a the right to a speedy trial.

You know this for a fact, do you?

[Oscar]

its printed on a few websites, longer and more indepth available

For someone who started this thread by saying that "..it's fair to be told the truth..", passing off someone's work as your own (alternatively: pinching intellectual property) is not a good look...

[Pascal]

Do you have cheese?

He'd need some wine first.

[freedom-wedge]

You know this for a fact, do you?

its fact oscar unfortunatly

[freedom-wedge]

For someone who started this thread by saying that "..it's fair to be told the truth..", passing off someone's work as your own (alternatively: pinching intellectual property) is not a good look...

It was free to circulate and was posted by by the october 15th solidarity group on indy media,http://indymedia.org.nz/features?tid=1&tid_1=31

There is a lot of information there about operation eight, and how it did and will affect us all from now on, its a touchy subject, so many wrongs done its the justification used thats the real worry. As for stealing intelectual property, fuck sake man your showing what a bigot you are,

[Oscar]

its fact oscar unfortunatly

So you still got nuthin', huh?

[Oscar]

It was free to circulate and was posted by by the october 15th solidarity group on indy media,http://indymedia.org.nz/features?tid=1&tid_1=31

There is a lot of information there about operation eight, and how it did and will affect us all from now on, its a touchy subject, so many wrongs done its the justification used thats the real worry. As for stealing intelectual property, fuck sake man your showing what a bigot you are,

Bigot?
You haven't got a clue have you?
You passed off another person's work as your own - you didn't acknowledge the author or link the website.

How does that make me a bigot?

It certainly makes you a thief and a liar.

[sinfull]

Well didn't he get a bite then !!

[Pascal]

You haven't got a clue have you?

It's difficult when you're only dealing in talking points, not thought.

[freedom-wedge]

Bigot?
You haven't got a clue have you?
You passed off another person's work as your own - you didn't acknowledge the author or link the website.

How does that make me a bigot?

It certainly makes you a thief and a liar.

I did no such thing, your way beyond reasoning with

[Oscar]

I did no such thing, your way beyond reasoning with

I'll type this slowly, so you understand.
In a thread where you accuse others of not telling the truth, you posted this:


This is but a few of the desired wish list

The bill is meant to streamline search and surveillance, by redefining not only police powers but also the powers of over 70 government agencies- called ‘enforcement officers’ in the bill. However, the bill does much more than that. It effectively gives police powers to agencies such as Work and Income and the even the Pork Board.

Dramatic Increase in Powers
Basically, once this bill becomes law, state power increases and search and surveillance become open slather. The Bill treats a single search and on-going surveillance as one and the same thing. For example, installing a video camera in a home for a month is treated the same as a one-off search of a car; taking a copy of an entire hard disk (with all kinds of information on it, some possibly covered by a search warrant, other intimately private) is considered no different than making photocopies of business files, and all enforcement officers have the same powers, regardless of the purpose of their job.

The Right to Silence
When this bill becomes law, the right to silence will effectively no longer exist. Using an Examination Order the police can demand that you report to them for questioning. The criterion is that they suspect you of being involved with two or more people in the commission (or plotting) of any offence punishable by imprisonment. Even extremely minor offences such as trespass or disorderly behaviour would qualify.

The only way you can refuse this order is to cite a bit of legal jargon: ‘Section 60 of the Evidence Act’ and claim ‘privilege against self-incrimination’. But even if you happen to know this, it may not help-you can be ordered in front of a judge where you then have to offer evidence as to why you would be likely to incriminate yourself if you talked: the ultimate Catch-22.

Examination Orders
Examination Orders last for up to thirty days and the only penalty available for refusing to comply is a maximum of one year’s imprisonment.

These Orders weren’t part of the Law Commission’s original report to Parliament. They were inserted into the bill by the Labour government on the pretext that the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) was going to be abolished; but the National government has decided to keep the SFO
.
When the SFO was created, there were many of us who opposed it. We argued that sooner or later their powers would be transferred to the police and applied outside of the business context. We were right.


The Right Not to Participate in Proving your own Guilt
Current practice is that the police have to provide all the evidence to prove a person is guilty-next year they can sit back and order you to produce some of that evidence. Instead of getting a search warrant, they will be able to apply for a Production Order. This will require you to produce documents you are suspected of having (or will have in the future) and is available to any enforcement
officer covered by the Act. If you refuse to supply the documentation, the sentence is a maximum of one year’s imprisonment.

Surveillance Devices
Surveillance devices include bugs, video cameras and tracking devices for cars. Currently, there are no specific laws regulating surveillance on private property. Police need a warrant to enter your house and install a listening bug. Video surveillance by police inside a house or other private place is currently illegal. Police do it anyway knowing that most judges will admit it as evidence. That will change with this bill. It introduces the concept of a surveillance device warrant, which can be obtained by any enforcement officer (not just police) under the same criteria as a search warrant – that is, the suspicion that the search (or surveillance) will uncover evidential material necessary for a prosecution of a crime. This equates on-going video surveillance with a one-off search.

This contrasts to legislation elsewhere. In the US, Canada and a number of European countries, phone bugging and installing a surveillance camera in a home is treated as a much more serious invasion of privacy than a search. In order to get a surveillance warrant, police have to demonstrate that other ways of obtaining the evidence have failed. In the new bill, there is no such restriction.

Plain View Searches
There is no restriction on the use of any thing the police find during a search or surveillance operation. Using ‘plain view’, if the surveillance data shows evidence of a different offence than that for which the warrant was obtained then that material can still be used in court. The same applies for a search warrant. ‘Plain view’ is an opportunity to ‘have a nosy’ at what else is around.

Warrant-less Searches
Once you are arrested or even simply detained, the police and enforcement officers are able to search your home, workplace, car, friend’s home or any place with which you are associated, without a warrant if they believe they can find evidential material related to the offence. This power, combined with ‘plain view’ searches is a nightmare. Whilst you are sitting in the cells, your home can be turned upside down with no warrant.

Similarly, a warrant will not needed to record a conversation when two or more people are talking if one person consents to a recording of the conversation. This person could be an undercover cop sitting in a meeting, someone employed by an ‘enforcement officer’ or a friendly person at the bar. A warrant is needed for a computer search, however this warrant allows them to have access to your entire hard-drive and then using plain view they can trawl through other information not on the warrant.

However you didn't acknowledge the author, or link the website -so any reasonable person would think it was your work.
It is not your work, and you are not the author.
That is theft.

[Oscar]

It's difficult when you're only dealing in talking points, not thought.

He (freedom-egg) keeps making unsupported statements.
Like this one:


I think one of them was cought up in it all for buying camo pants on trade me, he faced the full surge, the charges for them all then were dodgy, and the ones that remain are also, the 18 people still facing the courts for issues normally dealt with in months are off to trail in 2011 anyhow, so much for a the right to a speedy trial.

Has he a reference?
Can he direct us to a website where the whole camo pants scandal is unfolding?
Why does he expect us to take his word for it?

[Pascal]

You keep making unsupported statements.
Like this one....

I do? But I like Whittakers! Are you sure you're not getting your comments confused here?

[imdying]

I did no such thing, your way beyond reasoning withWhy should he bother being reasonable with you, you're not one of us.

[Oscar]

I do? But I like Whittakers! Are you sure you're not getting your comments confused here?

Sorry, my fuck up - post amended.

[Oscar]

Why should he bother being reasonable with you, you're not one of us.

Reasonable?
I didn't get where I am today* by being reasonable!







*i.e. A grumpy cahnt

[avgas]

mmm, whittakers almond slab! No raisins or sultana's, simply delightful! :D

Try is with a really nice red wine. Goes down a treat.
I have a bottle of "Monkey Puzzle" at home that I am going to crack this weekend. Last one I had from same vineyard had some nice sweet flavours too it.

Did anyone notice that the Penut slabs don't taste like they used to?

[avgas]

However you didn't acknowledge the author, or link the website -so any reasonable person would think it was your work.
It is not your work, and you are not the author.
That is theft.
Yes I want APA referencing dammit - this is the internet
http://assets.fishpond.co.nz/9780746037782-crop-325x325.jpg

[Oscar]

Try is with a really nice red wine. Goes down a treat.
I have a bottle of "Monkey Puzzle" at home that I am going to crack this weekend. Last one I had from same vineyard had some nice sweet flavours too it.

Did anyone notice that the Penut slabs don't taste like they used to?

Yes indeedy, there's nowt like a red (a big aussie shiraz is my favourite) to go wid chocolate.