Greenpeace activist to be tried for piracy in Japan?

[Oakie]

I'm against whaling as I guess most people are.
I'm also not impressed by the antics of the activists in the southern ocean.

So an activist sneaks on board a whaler in the dark with the intention of arresting the skipper. He get's caught and the Japanese say they'll take him to Japan and try him for piracy (think Somalian pirates sneaking onto vessels at night). Greenpeace say that he wanted to talk to the skipper regarding the recent collision of their two vessels. Now if you hit someone else's car anywhere in NZ do you think it's OK to sneak into their house in the middle of the night to discuss the matter. I think not!

Now I don't seriously think they'll take him back to Japan ... it's all posturing and I'm sure an agreement for his release will be made after a suitable period of time. (Hmmm, I wonder if they'll feed him whale meat while he is their guest?).

Perhaps given the charge of 'piracy' it may be appropriate for them just to make him 'walk the plank' so his mates can pick him up.

The charge of piracy may also be appropriate too given that the activist's vessel 'Steve Irwin' has a large skull and crossbones painted on the front of the superstructure.

What say you?

[Mully]

Save the whales - collect the whole set.

I like that he tried a citizen's arrest of the Captain, and then presented him with an invoice for the sunken boat.

Certainly points for optimism:
"Here's an invoice for my sunken boat"
"Dreadfully sorry, old chap. Let me just grab my cheque book"

Did you hear the spokesman on the radio; "We aren't going to pull alongsie for a transfer cos we'll end up with all the cockroaches from their boat coming over"

Actually, I think, by definition, he is a pirate (illegal boarding and so on).

[Tank]

What he has done is illeagal (boarding a boat in international waters).

BUT - It needs to be noted that he is not being kept on the boat - He is actually not wanting to leave. I think this fucker deserves anything he gets - preferably 10 - 12 years in a Jap prison.

"New Zealand skipper Peter Bethune appears to be refusing to be transferred from the whaling ship Shonan Maru which he illegally boarded in Antarctic waters yesterday, says Foreign Minister Murray McCully."

from http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/3330225/Kiwi-skipper-held-on-whaling-boat

[The Pastor]

yeah, and what country owns the water they are in?

[JimO]

did he pay for the fishing boat he ran down when the Ady Gill was called Earthrace and was he charged with murder for the fisherman that drowned..the japs should chuck the cunt over the side

[JimO]

yeah, and what country owns the water they are in?

craplacastan??

[onearmedbandit]

Committed a crime in international waters, he can face the music. What gets me is that Sea Sheppard Pie are saying, 'oh if it was us that sank their boat the NZ Govt etc would have prosecuted us, yet when it's the other way around they do nothing'. Well Mr Pie, from what I understand they are not breaking any laws as such, just going about their business, whether it's morally correct or not. You on the other hand are interfering with their business, causing lives to be risked and boats to be sunk. So yes, I admire you for standing up for what you believe in, but we're all not quite as crazy as you.

[Swampdonkey]

They will be feeding him whale meat sushi.....hope he enjoys it.
His boat was for the scrapyard in Helensville,it was rooted.All of a sudden its worth millions.

[Swoop]

His boat was for the scrapyard in Helensville,it was rooted.All of a sudden its worth millions.
Remarkable that it made it all the way around the world and a bit more, then eh?
Composite boats are like that.

[davereid]

They will be feeding him whale meat sushi.....hope he enjoys it.


Yeah, the Japs have a good sense of humour... Minke or Right Whale steaks tonight... you choose..

[Laava]

He's no pirate that's for sure! A Pirate doesn't jump onto another boat waving a piece of paper! He should have sabotaged it somehow and jumped over board.

[Swampdonkey]

Remarkable that it made it all the way around the world and a bit more, then eh?
Composite boats are like that.

Yeah and he only killed some poor old fisherman in Peru.... slowed him down for a day or two

[rainman]

Pete is a top bloke and a true hero. He's not a direct close friend but I'm proud to count him in my extended social circle, and I'm glad he has the balls to do what he believes in - he's braver than me, and I suspect, most of you lot too. Sure the citizen's arrest is a stunt but it's a high-stakes way of getting an issue he believes in into the international debate. He deserves much more support that this government will give him. Unfortunately Murray "Useless" McCully is FM at the moment, and, as usual, won't do his job.


Yeah and he only killed some poor old fisherman in Peru.... slowed him down for a day or two

Yeah, 'cos you were there, right? At least read his book before you spout crap on here.

[Skyryder]

It’ pure street theater or in this case ‘sea’ theater. I’d better say from the outset that the ‘actor’ is in the wrong and has acted unlawfully in boarding a vessel on the high sea.

But again the Nips have got this all wrong in the PR stakes. At present they are the bad guys in world opinion on whaling. Now they have come up with some cock and bull story on pirating. Compare that to Sea Shepherd’s reason for the boarding, in that Key has made no protest whatsoever over a NZ registered vessel being rammed and you can begin to see where this is leading. Couple this with the Sierra Club concerns over mining in our National Parks and put the two together and any half decent propagandist could make us look pretty silly.
It’s anyone’s guess just how far the Nips will go on this. SS should have realized that they have given the Japs a hostage. Still a dumb move on their part (SS) too. Street theater usually is and has little bearing on reality

Key to his credit has finally spoken out on this but 'late' as usual. Perhaps he was waiting for a call from his mate Lord Ashcroft on what to do. Oh by the way doubt if many know this but Ashcroft is a whale watcher. Might explain Key's position now.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Pete is a top bloke and a true hero. He's not a direct close friend but I'm proud to count him in my extended social circle, and I'm glad he has the balls to do what he believes in - he's braver than me, and I suspect, most of you lot too. Sure the citizen's arrest is a stunt but it's a high-stakes way of getting an issue he believes in into the international debate. He deserves much more support that this government will give him. Unfortunately Murray "Useless" McCully is FM at the moment, and, as usual, won't do his job.



Yeah, 'cos you were there, right? At least read his book before you spout crap on here.

I've mentioned much the same on other issues. It takes guts and committemt to do what these guys do.


Skyryder

[Oakie]

I think it's quite reasonable for the government not to rush to the aid of a Kiwi who has broken international law. Yes, pure theatre on both parts but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Laxi]

vote the greens, they were the guys that wanted to send a NZ "Navy frigate" to sink a whaler a couple of years back

[SMOKEU]

I bet those Greenpeace fuckwits got rejected by Al Qaeda when they applied to join so they decided to start their own terrorist organization. Who knows, they might attack a slaugher house next or your local McDonalds restraunt procaiming "save the cows" or other such activity. Some people go to great lengths to seek attention don't they?

[Hitcher]

There's only one solution to this. Wankers should get their own country.

[Pussy]

It was an act of piracy.
Take the consequences.
The fuckwit!

[Skyryder]

I think it's quite reasonable for the government not to rush to the aid of a Kiwi who has broken international law. Yes, pure theatre on both parts but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.


It is never right to abandon a fellow countryman for whatever reason. Giving aid and assistance is not condoning their actions. Would you abandon a fellow biker if he broke the law and crashed as a result? There is a fundamental flaw in this country and that is that we support our fellow kiwi’s only if we agree with them. Otherwise they can go to hell.


As to how this plays out.


It’s a foregone conclusion.

Sea Shepherd’s reasoning for their action on this, is that Key never made a satisfactory response as Prime Minister for the ramming of a NZ registered vessel by the Japanese. Essentially a vessel registered in a country becomes subject to it’s laws and has that country’s protection. In this Key failed in every area of diplomacy. McCully simply does not count.

By blaming Key, Sea Shepherd have ensured that the incident is kept alive and in the International publics eye. The fact of the matter, regardless of the position one takes concerning the ramming, Key’s response was less than satisfactory and bordered on the dithering. Now that there has been a boarding, and blaming Key’s lack of response, for it, Key is now forced to take the international stage on this issue to counter Sea Shepherd’s position. There is simply no way that Japan will put Peter Bethune on trial that would allow and international/media frenzy showing Key in a poor light. Key will perform as instructed by his mentor, Japan in a face saving move will release Bethune for some kind of deal we will never hear about and Key will strut himself out as an International statesman.



Skyryder

[puddytat]

I've mentioned much the same on other issues. It takes guts and committemt to do what these guys do.


Skyryder

To right it does.
Unlike half the fat cunts here slaggin' anyone who does something they believe in, thats not actually about them....

[Mikkel]

NB!

Greenpeace != Sea Shepherd

p.s. "!=" equals "does not equal".


BUT - It needs to be noted that he is not being kept on the boat - He is actually not wanting to leave. I think this fucker deserves anything he gets - preferably 10 - 12 years in a Jap prison.

The Japanese have no prisons. They don't let themselves be taken prisoners... they commit seppuku.


Yeah, the Japs have a good sense of humour... Minke or Right Whale steaks tonight... you choose..

There's another incredibly ironic thing. The Southern Right Whale got its name because it is the right whale to hunt: slow, docile and plenty of meat.

[Marmoot]

It is never right to abandon a fellow countryman for whatever reason.

I don't see you chipping in to help this poor fellow countryman?
Poor wee countryman bloke thingy (http://www.theage.com.au/technology/security/email-superspammer-fined-16m-20091201-k1sc.html)

This bloke (http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/3086878/Kiwi-criminal-allowed-to-remain)needs to be freed too. Why does our country not support this fellow countryman?

Let's bring our boys home?

Your nationalism differs from true patriotism like a fanatic differs from a religious person.

[LBD]

It is never right to abandon a fellow countryman for whatever reason. Giving aid and assistance is not condoning their actions. Would you abandon a fellow biker if he broke the law and crashed as a result?

Do you really thing he is in peril that necessitates the intervention ofthe NZ Govt and or Navy? I don't think so. He will have a safe passage to the next port of call, and either be flown back to NZ to be rid of or face a Jap court in which case the NZFA would possibly assist with legal rep and through diplomatic channels.

He is in this situation of his own choice...leave him there, no harm done

[Dave Lobster]

There's only one solution to this. Wankers should get their own country.

May I nominate France?

[MisterD]

May I nominate France?

No Dave, you may not. Somewhere in Africa with lots of sand would be the go...

[Pascal]

Pete is a top bloke and a true hero. He's not a direct close friend but I'm proud to count him in my extended social circle, and I'm glad he has the balls to do what he believes in - he's braver than me, and I suspect, most of you lot too. Sure the citizen's arrest is a stunt but it's a high-stakes way of getting an issue he believes in into the international debate. He deserves much more support that this government will give him. Unfortunately Murray "Useless" McCully is FM at the moment, and, as usual, won't do his job.

Pete is a criminal. He has broken the law. Are you suggesting the NZ government should support criminals in attacking foreign nationals?


It is never right to abandon a fellow countryman for whatever reason. Giving aid and assistance is not condoning their actions. Would you abandon a fellow biker if he broke the law and crashed as a result? There is a fundamental flaw in this country and that is that we support our fellow kiwi’s only if we agree with them. Otherwise they can go to hell.

It is not a case of agreeing with them or not agreeing with them. I happen to agree and would like to see the whaling stop. But, I will not condone criminal behavior to achieve those goals. Why are you willing to support criminals?

Would you support a bike thief because you're a biker and you know he wants one? Why not?

[Pixie]

Pete Bethune,rhymes with buffoon.

He's a typical greenie hypocrite.The whole "Earth Race" thing was your typical "get someone to pay for my expensive hobby,by making it look like a noble cause".
If he was really concerned with conservation ,he would have stayed home and woven himself a macramé Prius.

The whalers should have rammed a belaying pin up his arse.
Do they still use belaying pins?

[JimO]

It is never right to abandon a fellow countryman for whatever reason. Giving aid and assistance is not condoning their actions. Would you abandon a fellow biker if he broke the law and crashed as a result? There is a fundamental flaw in this country and that is that we support our fellow kiwi’s only if we agree with them. Otherwise they can go to hell.


As to how this plays out.


It’s a foregone conclusion.

Sea Shepherd’s reasoning for their action on this, is that Key never made a satisfactory response as Prime Minister for the ramming of a NZ registered vessel by the Japanese. Essentially a vessel registered in a country becomes subject to it’s laws and has that country’s protection. In this Key failed in every area of diplomacy. McCully simply does not count.

By blaming Key, Sea Shepherd have ensured that the incident is kept alive and in the International publics eye. The fact of the matter, regardless of the position one takes concerning the ramming, Key’s response was less than satisfactory and bordered on the dithering. Now that there has been a boarding, and blaming Key’s lack of response, for it, Key is now forced to take the international stage on this issue to counter Sea Shepherd’s position. There is simply no way that Japan will put Peter Bethune on trial that would allow and international/media frenzy showing Key in a poor light. Key will perform as instructed by his mentor, Japan in a face saving move will release Bethune for some kind of deal we will never hear about and Key will strut himself out as an International statesman.



Skyryder

Helen Clark would have solved this...yea rite

[Pixie]

They will be feeding him whale meat sushi.....hope he enjoys it.
His boat was for the scrapyard in Helensville,it was rooted.All of a sudden its worth millions.

So it was an insurance scam.
Along the lines of: "my car is worth fuck all on the market,but it's insured for heaps.I'll arrange for it to be 'stolen'.'

[The Stranger]

It’s a foregone conclusion.

Sea Shepherd’s reasoning for their action on this, is that Key never made a satisfactory response as Prime Minister for the ramming of a NZ registered vessel by the Japanese.

The only foregone conclusion is that skyryder will blame Key for everything.

[rainman]

Pete is a criminal. He has broken the law. Are you suggesting the NZ government should support criminals in attacking foreign nationals?

Skyryder has addressed this above more eloquently than I can. Sure, it appears he has broken the law and will see some consequences of that - but the law is a secondary consideration in this specific case because a) it's a minor technical breach (he's not putting anyone in danger, other than himself, by boarding their ship), and b) the japs started it by ramming his ship (a far more dangerous breach of the law that has not seen them get any consequences as yet). So yes, he gets my support. But then again, I'm not a mindless greenie-hating bigot like so many here are.

[rainman]

Helen Clark would have solved this...yea rite

Not sure she would have solved it, but if I had to bet 10 bucks on who would take some action (any action), between Helen and Johnny - no contest.

Even Rodney says he doesn't do anything.

[Dave Lobster]

No Dave, you may not. Somewhere in Africa with lots of sand would be the go...

We already drop bombs on wankers in Afwica.

More fun to drop bombs on wankers in France.

[Tank]

Pete is a top bloke and a true hero. He's not a direct close friend but I'm proud to count him in my extended social circle, and I'm glad he has the balls to do what he believes in - he's braver than me, and I suspect, most of you lot too. Sure the citizen's arrest is a stunt but it's a high-stakes way of getting an issue he believes in into the international debate. He deserves much more support that this government will give him. Unfortunately Murray "Useless" McCully is FM at the moment, and, as usual, won't do his job.

Braver than me - probably - but also a lot more stupid.

and NO - this government should not be condoning or offering any support. They are committing illeagal acts at sea - fucked if my $ should help them. Again - hope he gets a very long time in a jap cell.



Yeah, 'cos you were there, right? At least read his book before you spout crap on here.

yeah - because his own book wont be a one sided affair making him look good now would it.

[Tank]

Not sure she would have solved it, but if I had to bet 10 bucks on who would take some action (any action), between Helen and Johnny - no contest.

Even Rodney says he doesn't do anything.

Look at all the bring Dylan home threads on this site to see the inaction of Helen Clarkes government in looking after a innocent NZ'er abroad before you spout such crap.

[Pascal]

but the law is a secondary consideration in this specific case because a) it's a minor technical breach (he's not putting anyone in danger, other than himself, by boarding their ship), and b) the japs started it by ramming his ship (a far more dangerous breach of the law that has not seen them get any consequences as yet).

So if I get this right we are allowed to break the law if we disagree with it, believe we're not putting anyone in danger and if the other person has done something else wrong?

I could key your bike for being a Greenie? And that would be okay?

[rainman]

yeah - because his own book wont be a one sided affair making him look good now would it.

So, not much different to the one-sided commentary here that assumes because he's doing something green he must be bad?

[Tank]

So, not much different to the one-sided commentary here that assumes because he's doing something green he must be bad?

Dont confuse doing something Green with political agendas.

If NZ woke up to that the green party would be dead in a week.

[rainman]

I could key your bike for being a Greenie? And that would be okay?

How has Pete damaged the property of the Japanese?

[Tank]

How has Pete damaged the property of the Japanese?

Well - the freely admit to doing millions of dollars of damage over the years. So yeah - fuckem.

[avgas]

Cry me an ocean full of whales all of you

[Pascal]

How has Pete damaged the property of the Japanese?

It's only minor property damage. A few scratches. You're not harmed. You just have to ride around like a dick with scratches on his tank. It could be an act of protest against law-breaking Greenies?

You're letting your ideology blind you to law-breaking. It would be much better to actually solve this through the right process, get international support and work within the system. This mad vigilantism is not doing the whales any favours, because all it is doing is making the activists look like dicks to everybody but their hollow echo chambers.

[Mully]

Cry me an ocean full of whales all of you

Delicious whales?

[firefighter]

He's no pirate that's for sure! A Pirate doesn't jump onto another boat waving a piece of paper! He should have sabotaged it somehow and jumped over board.

He's not French is he?

[Dave Lobster]

He's not French is he?

Did he surrender at the first sign of trouble?

[rainman]

It's only minor property damage. A few scratches. You're not harmed. You just have to ride around like a dick with scratches on his tank. It could be an act of protest against law-breaking Greenies?

You're letting your ideology blind you to law-breaking. It would be much better to actually solve this through the right process, get international support and work within the system. This mad vigilantism is not doing the whales any favours, because all it is doing is making the activists look like dicks to everybody but their hollow echo chambers.

I disagree with your accusation that I'm an ideologue here - I've said he likely will (and should) face consequences for boarding the ship, which is apparently illegal. I'd also like to see the Japs face consequences for sinking an NZ ship, and I'd like to see Key and McCully held to account for not doing their fucking jobs.

Plus, your analogy breaks down because scratching my tank does damage to my property, while Pete popping over for a chat and a citizen's arrest does not. Note, I'm not saying the action is right, just that it is not the main point. Both parties have long been doing wrong things - dismissing the one you disagree with because he did something illegal is just silly.

Why do you think people are out in the Southern Ocean fighting over this rather than using the "right process"? Possibly because the "right process" does not work? If the activists weren't there, the whaling would continue unopposed, or even escalate. Do you agree with that?

[onearmedbandit]

Lets say there's some 'boy-racers' out causing havoc while I'm in my car. Nothing illegal right, but doing something that I don't agree with. I decide to take the law into my own hands and start driving my vehicle in a manner to discourage them from continuing their 'anti-social' but legal activity. Suddenly I find myself in the crap, our cars are going to hit, bang, too late, my car is fucked nd their's only has a few scratches. Who should the police charge?

Then, I decide to enter into the boy-racers house (ooo, I mean 'break and enter') late at night. Not to smash them over, just to give them a bill for damages and to try to arrest the driver. Gee I wonder, why are not any of the authorities helping me?

[Tank]

I disagree with your accusation that I'm an ideologue here - I've said he likely will (and should) face consequences for boarding the ship, which is apparently illegal. I'd also like to see the Japs face consequences for sinking an NZ ship, and I'd like to see Key and McCully held to account for not doing their fucking jobs.



So the SS have sunk many a boat - all by illeagal means including using explosives. This is a statement of fact and they publicize this on their own website. Now you expect a) people to believe that the japs were in the wrong - not the people who admit to sinking other ships using the exact same methods on other occasions.

Yeah right - How about they get held accountable for that first - including terrorism charges for using mines in a port (sound familiar).

Key held accountable - Only thing I think he could do better on this one is give NZ's blessing to the japs punishing the guy to the full extent of the law. NZ does not need to harbour 'green' terrorist.

[Pascal]

I disagree with your accusation that I'm an ideologue here

You support and justify criminal behavior in support of your beliefs. That, to me, makes you a prime candidate for one.


Plus, your analogy breaks down because scratching my tank does damage to my property, while Pete popping over for a chat and a citizen's arrest does not. Note, I'm not saying the action is right, just that it is not the main point. Both parties have long been doing wrong things - dismissing the one you disagree with because he did something illegal is just silly.

No, actually it is not silly. Due process breaks down when you break the law because you feel you are justified in doing so. I will continue to dismiss people who do so as fools. Pete is a fool, not a hero.


Why do you think people are out in the Southern Ocean fighting over this rather than using the "right process"? Possibly because the "right process" does not work? If the activists weren't there, the whaling would continue unopposed, or even escalate. Do you agree with that?

Then fix the process. But taking the law into your own hands is not right. We live in a free, open and democratic society. We are trying to push the world forward to an elevated, responsible consciousness. But actions like those of Pete harkens back to "Me caveman, me club, me strong". He is an idiot.

[Tank]

The sinking of the Andygil (or whatever) - was not the japs fault.

the SS actually document and are proud of boats they have rammed and sunk - how the fuck do they expect people to believe that 'just this one time' it was someone elses fault.

So how many lives do you think they put at risk sinking the below (that they have painted on one of their boats)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/DSC_0564_sm.jpg

[onearmedbandit]

Apparently I must spread some rep around sorry Tank. SS are like some members here, irritating the fuck out of others, and then when someone acts back they go complaining to the mod's, sorry I mean authorities.

Can we sinbin them?

[Mikkel]

the japs started it by ramming his ship (a far more dangerous breach of the law that has not seen them get any consequences as yet).

Whether the Japanese rammed their ship or not is open to contention. Otherwise there would have been consequences. I'd dare to say that both ships were to blame for the incident.


Delicious whales?

Is there any other kind?


The sinking of the Andygil (or whatever) - was not the japs fault.

the SS actually document and are proud of boats they have rammed and sunk - how the fuck do they expect people to believe that 'just this one time' it was someone elses fault.

The sinking of the Ady Gil has provided SS with quite a bit of media coverage. There is nothing than the SS wants more than media coverage - they are attention whores one and all, and terrorists to boot. (I'm not going to call them pirates, pirates are way more awesome than SS - and for the record guys with machine guns in rubber inflatables aren't pirates either.)

Imagine that SS had taken the Ady Gil into the south sea and found that it was hopeless at trying to obstruct the Japanese whalers. You're stuck with an expensive and fancy boat which you can't use for anything. Arrange for it to get rammed by a Japanese vessel, get the media coverage and claim the insurance. Sounds like media politics 101.

[imdying]

There is nothing than the SS wants more than media coverageOf course, they're in it for the money like everyone else... sailing the high seas as a pirate isn't cheap ya know.

[Mully]

Of course, they're in it for the money like everyone else... sailing the high seas as a pirate isn't cheap ya know.

Eye patches and wooden legs don't pay for themselves.

And someone's got to support all the wenches.

[rainman]

So the SS have sunk many a boat - all by illeagal means including using explosives. This is a statement of fact and they publicize this on their own website. Now you expect a) people to believe that the japs were in the wrong - not the people who admit to sinking other ships using the exact same methods on other occasions.

Yeah right - How about they get held accountable for that first - including terrorism charges for using mines in a port (sound familiar).

Watson's a nutter and I have no problem with him being held to account for scuttling ships - as long as we're doing so how about we hold to account the nations which are violating the moratorium on whaling too? However, we're talking about the actions of an NZ citizen, Pete Bethune, and the inaction of our government, not Watson.



Then fix the process. But taking the law into your own hands is not right. We live in a free, open and democratic society. We are trying to push the world forward to an elevated, responsible consciousness. But actions like those of Pete harkens back to "Me caveman, me club, me strong". He is an idiot.

God, what idealism. What exactly do you think ordinary people can do to "fix the process"?


Sounds like media politics 101.

Sounds like baseless conjecture to me.

[Pascal]

God, what idealism. What exactly do you think ordinary people can do to "fix the process"?

Better an idealist than a vigilante. That aside though, do you have the right to vote in New Zealand? Moreover, thanks to a National government and a bi-partisan review of our electoral laws (Unlike when the Greens and Labour tried to swing things their way) you have the ability to agitate at election time to sway people to vote for the parties that support your cause.

So, do you have access to a printer? Can you eloquently state your case and actually create a flier? Can you walk the streets along with like-minded friends and drop it in mailboxes?

Or are you just talk?

[Skyryder]

Pete is a criminal. He has broken the law. Are you suggesting the NZ government should support criminals in attacking foreign nationals?



It is not a case of agreeing with them or not agreeing with them. I happen to agree and would like to see the whaling stop. But, I will not condone criminal behavior to achieve those goals. Why are you willing to support criminals?

Would you support a bike thief because you're a biker and you know he wants one? Why not?

There is a difference in supporting the person and not supporting the action. If you have read my post you will have discovered this.

Skyyrder

[avgas]

The SS are a bunch of pansie dicks. The whalers are doing an illegal activity.
How does putting Pete on that boat change ANY of this.
SS even stated it was mission impossible on what Pete was doing.
Either SS have brainwashed Pete into thinking he could get his money back from the Japanese or he an idiot.
As for the Japanese/NZ govt not doing anything - this IS true. I think NZ govt should have gone down (Te Kaha will do) and sent both parties home. People need to cool down over this situation, and currently our millions of dollars of navy are doing fuck all anyway.
So yes in summary
Japanese govt, Japanese whalers, Aus Govt, Nz Govt and SS are bunch of wankers who should step back, think about the situation, sort it out and pull EVERYONE the fuck out of the Antarctic.
Its like an interracial kindy of rich kids

[Pascal]

There is a difference in supporting the person and not supporting the action. If you have read my post you will have discovered this.

I saw the distinction you made, I just think it is bullshit. If a New Zealander commits a crime in a foreign country I do not see why they (the person) should be supported. Reverse the situation. A foreign national comes to New Zealand and commits a crime here. Should their governmental agencies come over and provide support to this person?

No. They comitted a crime here. They fall under New Zealand jurisdiction. They will be punished according to our laws. The laws they chose to break.

[Skyryder]

I don't see you chipping in to help this poor fellow countryman?
Poor wee countryman bloke thingy (http://www.theage.com.au/technology/security/email-superspammer-fined-16m-20091201-k1sc.html)

This bloke (http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/3086878/Kiwi-criminal-allowed-to-remain)needs to be freed too. Why does our country not support this fellow countryman?

Let's bring our boys home?

Your nationalism differs from true patriotism like a fanatic differs from a religious person.


The analogy that ‘true’ patriotism, just how that differs from patriotism I don’t know, and nationalism is as different as a fanatic and a religious person is again flawed as a fanatic is not necessarily a religious person but can be fanatical about all kind of things. However I do see your intent.

Nationalism as such tends to be associated with political ideals. Patriotism is commonly associated with the military and the support thereof. I think most people would agree with that concept when it comes to defining the difference between the two. My views on both a bit more clearly defined.
Nationalism as mentioned is a political view, and the policies of the party expressing a nationalist view usually propounds an extremist ideology which may be either to the left or the right of the main political spectrum.

Patriotism is a word I do not like in that those that proclaim themselves as such usually question the loyalty of those who have a different point of view. However having said that I use the word as all encompassing for the overall support of those who engage in defending our traditions, heritage and way of life be it on foreign soil or our own.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

No. They comitted a crime here. They fall under New Zealand jurisdiction. They will be punished according to our laws. The laws they chose to break.

So where have I disagreed with the above??


Skyrder

[MisterD]

e, and the inaction of our government,

Foreign Affairs have been in contact with the Japs and have offered the standard consular services just as any NZ passport holder is entitled to if they get into strife abroad...if the Japs decide to string him up from a handy yardarm then I'd expect some actual lobbying at a government level.

[Marmoot]

The analogy that ...
Skyryder

Objection, Your Honour: Semantics.

My apologies, English is not my 1st language, so my vocabulary might be skewed.

Let me rephrase: "Your X differs from Y just like a fanatic differs from a religious person". :)

[Mikkel]

Sounds like baseless conjecture to me.

Well, seeing as you are familiar with the term conjecture - how about applying some of the same criticality to your own arguments?

[rainman]

...do you have the right to vote in New Zealand? Moreover, ... you have the ability to agitate at election time to sway people to vote for the parties that support your cause.

Good lord, you think this is an issue that can meaningfully be progressed by a local leaflet drop? Perhaps I should run for the Save The Whales Party? Just amazing. Well, good luck with that world view, buddy.


So yes in summary
Japanese govt, Japanese whalers, Aus Govt, Nz Govt and SS are bunch of wankers who should step back, think about the situation, sort it out and pull EVERYONE the fuck out of the Antarctic.

Works for me. Unfortunately, despite a great deal of international political effort, it doesn't seem to work for the Japanese and the Norwegians.


Well, seeing as you are familiar with the term conjecture - how about applying some of the same criticality to your own arguments?

Sure. Which ones do you think are conjecture?

[Pascal]

Good lord, you think this is an issue that can meaningfully be progressed by a local leaflet drop? Perhaps I should run for the Save The Whales Party? Just amazing. Well, good luck with that world view, buddy.

Follow the chain.

Do you want this issue resolved? Your first step is to ensure the government voted in by the people will act on this. This requires leaflet drops, public awareness and getting them on your side. Once you have the government willing to act on this, they can begin putting diplomatic pressure on making changes. Those are the proper channels.

If, however, you do as Greenpeace is doing and taking the law into your own hands with these dangerous publicity stunts you are not getting the public on side. You're turning them off your cause.

[Mully]

C'mon people.

Can't we all just sit down with some Whale 'n Chips and get along??

[Drunken Monkey]

I saw the distinction you made, I just think it is bullshit. If a New Zealander commits a crime in a foreign country I do not see why they (the person) should be supported. Reverse the situation. A foreign national comes to New Zealand and commits a crime here. Should their governmental agencies come over and provide support to this person?

No. They comitted a crime here. They fall under New Zealand jurisdiction. They will be punished according to our laws. The laws they chose to break.

As much as I often disagree with Skyryder's idealogical rants, he has a point and your example is incorrect. When foreign nationals get arrested and imprisoned in other countries, representatives of the accused persons' nation will visit them in court/prison and provide assistance in the form of messages to friends and family, instructions of how to deal with/survive in the foreign prison and any other aid deemed legal by the host nation's government. It is very common even for "dirty" drug runners to get this kind of assistance, see examples such as Sandra Gregory (UK citizen arrested and imprisoned in Thailand), Scott Campbell/Lucy Baker (UK citizens arrested and imprisoned in Mexico), and closer to home, Chapelle Corby (I'm sure the details of her case need no further description as we're all quite familiar with it). Certainly in neither the Sandra Gregory case or the Campbell/Baker case did the UK government condone the action of the arrested, however they still had a local representative of the UK government assist these people.
So in short, there already exists a protocol to support your fellow nationals, without necessarily condoning.

[JimO]

How has Pete damaged the property of the Japanese?

well he probably scratched the paint on the front of the boat thet he parked in front of

[onearmedbandit]

I've spent a bit of time in Japan, not a great deal but enough to have eaten many many different types of seafood, but never once found whale on the menu. And no one I asked actually liked it, most had tried it but not all. Now the Japanese are very proud people, and don't like to back down. So as long as the groups like the SS keep pressure on them then they more than likely won't back down. Ignore it all, and you'll probably find that the number of whales killed will drop dramatically. I've heard there are surplus stockpiles of whale meat rotting in storage in Japan, how long could the market last?

[imdying]

How dare you suggest Pete acknowledges that not all cultures operate in the same manner as his own, and then actually use that knowledge as leverage for accomplishing his goals. He is obviously much better off using the same old crap that has taken groups like SS nowhere for so long.

[marty]

No. They comitted a crime here. They fall under New Zealand jurisdiction. They will be punished according to our laws. The laws they chose to break.

Exactly what crime has Bethune commited?

[Drunken Monkey]

Boarding a vessel flying a foreign flag without express permission for starters...

[avgas]

Works for me. Unfortunately, despite a great deal of international political effort, it doesn't seem to work for the Japanese and the Norwegians.
In their defence, the Kiwi's, Aussies and Americans think it is perfectly fine to do what ever they want there. Including tourism.
Since its international all all that - is kind of like saying its an open, free market - no tarrifs, no tax.

Reality of the matter is that is should be a global barrier. NO ONE SHOULD BE THERE.

[avgas]

I've spent a bit of time in Japan, not a great deal but enough to have eaten many many different types of seafood, but never once found whale on the menu. And no one I asked actually liked it, most had tried it but not all. Now the Japanese are very proud people, and don't like to back down. So as long as the groups like the SS keep pressure on them then they more than likely won't back down. Ignore it all, and you'll probably find that the number of whales killed will drop dramatically. I've heard there are surplus stockpiles of whale meat rotting in storage in Japan, how long could the market last?

I found it in a local 24/7 shop. Was aptly labelled "Big Fish". Was also cheap.
Apparently it wasn't 100% though as it was half squid.

[marty]

Boarding a vessel flying a foreign flag without express permission for starters...

Really? I can't find anywhere that makes that a crime. Needs to be something more than just boarding.

Please provide a link to your claimed offence.

[Oakie]

It is never right to abandon a fellow countryman for whatever reason. Giving aid and assistance is not condoning their actions. Would you abandon a fellow biker if he broke the law and crashed as a result? There is a fundamental flaw in this country and that is that we support our fellow kiwi’s only if we agree with them. Otherwise they can go to hell. Skyryder

I said it was reasonable for a government not to rush to the assistance of a lawbreaker. It should be a considered action and when assistance is finally given it should be delivered in such a way as to leave no doubt that the government does not support the illegal action. Rushing in to help may give the impression that the government agrees with the action which could be damaging.

[blossomsowner]

good on pete bethune for sticking up for what he believes in.

yes he is prepared to go to much greater lengths to achieve his goals than 99% of the population.

lets get him some support...........get him home again..........

and get him onto the "return acc to the woodhouse principles" action group.


don't knock the guy, he has achieved more than most people ever will

[Skyryder]

Really? I can't find anywhere that makes that a crime. Needs to be something more than just boarding.

Please provide a link to your claimed offence.

Nope boarding is all that it takes. Boarding a vessel on the high seas is akin to entering a country illegaly. You need permission for both.

I'll try and find a link.

Skyryder

[Oakie]

don't knock the guy, he has achieved more than most people ever will

What has he achieved? I don't mean what issues has he jumped up and down about ... I mean what concrete resolutiion to issues is he responsible for? Sorry, serious question and probably displaying my ignorance but I've never heard of him. (No disrespect meant to anyone ... just want to expand my knowledge)

[Mikkel]

Sure. Which ones do you think are conjecture?

For instance, I can't see how you can be happy to assert that the Japanese vessel rammed Ady Gil (i.e. deliberately and solely caused the accident). A collision occurred, we've all seen the videos - but what went before that short glimpse we don't know.

I do not know a lot about maritime law, but I doubt that the NZ government has got any special authority in international waters. Claiming that the government should act on behalf of Sea Shepherd because Ady Gil was an NZ registered vessel doesn't sound right to me. Neither does "the government should do something" in regards to an NZ national being apprehended for unlawful boarding of a maritime vessel in international waters.

[LBD]

Then there is this billboard outside a diner in Andenes...Lofthofen Islands, Norway I snapped July 08.....Just had dinner so was not hungry at the time otherwise....maybe.....????

[LBD]

I do not know a lot about maritime law, but I doubt that the NZ government has got any special authority in international waters. Claiming that the government should act on behalf of Sea Shepherd because Ady Gil was an NZ registered vessel doesn't sound right to me. Neither does "the government should do something" in regards to an NZ national being apprehended for unlawful boarding of a maritime vessel in international waters.

Maritime activities in international waters is governed by the IMO International Maritime organisation, a division of the UN...who also manage the Colregs...Collision Regulations, the rules by which the collision will be judged.

[Skyryder]

Really? I can't find anywhere that makes that a crime. Needs to be something more than just boarding.

Please provide a link to your claimed offence.

UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA


Article110\
Right of visit
1. Except where acts of interference derive from powers conferred by treaty, a warship which encounters on the high seas a foreign ship, other than a ship entitled to complete immunity in accordance with articles 95 and 96, is not justified in boarding it unless there is reasonable ground for suspecting that:
(a) the ship is engaged in piracy;
(b) the ship is engaged in the slave trade;
(c) the ship is engaged in unauthorized broadcasting and the flag State of the warship has jurisdiction under article 109;
(d) the ship is without nationality; or
(e) though flying a foreign flag or refusing to show its flag, the ship is, in reality, of the same nationality as the warship.
2. In the cases provided for in paragraph 1, the warship may proceed to verify the ship's right to fly its flag. To this end, it may send a boat under the command of an officer to the suspected ship. If suspicion remains after the documents have been checked, it may proceed to a further examination on board the ship, which must be carried out with all possible consideration.
3. If the suspicions prove to be unfounded, and provided that the ship boarded has not committed any act justifying them, it shall be compensated for any loss or damage that may have been sustained.
4. These provisions apply mutatis mutandis to military aircraft.
5. These provisions also apply to any other duly authorized ships or aircraft clearly marked and identifiable as being on government service.

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/closindx.htm


Further to the above.

Under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, which for the most part codifies the law of the sea even for non-parties to the Convention, vessels on the high seas are subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of their flag state and ordinarily may not be boarded by anyone from a foreign naval ship. [1] An exception exists, however, if the boarded ship is without nationality. [2] A vessel that flies no flag and is not otherwise clearly identified with a state of registration is considered a ship without nationality. Consequently it appears that the boarding of the cargo vessel, in and of itself, did not violate international law.

From

http://www.asil.org/insigh94.cfm

Best I can do.

[LBD]

UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA


Article110\
Right of visit
1. Except where acts of interference derive from powers conferred by treaty, a warship which encounters on the high seas a foreign ship, other than a ship entitled to complete immunity in accordance with articles 95 and 96, is not justified in boarding it unless there is reasonable ground for suspecting that:
(a) the ship is engaged in piracy;
(b) the ship is engaged in the slave trade;
(c) the ship is engaged in unauthorized broadcasting and the flag State of the warship has jurisdiction under article 109;
(d) the ship is without nationality; or
(e) though flying a foreign flag or refusing to show its flag, the ship is, in reality, of the same nationality as the warship.
2. In the cases provided for in paragraph 1, the warship may proceed to verify the ship's right to fly its flag. To this end, it may send a boat under the command of an officer to the suspected ship. If suspicion remains after the documents have been checked, it may proceed to a further examination on board the ship, which must be carried out with all possible consideration.
3. If the suspicions prove to be unfounded, and provided that the ship boarded has not committed any act justifying them, it shall be compensated for any loss or damage that may have been sustained.
4. These provisions apply mutatis mutandis to military aircraft.
5. These provisions also apply to any other duly authorized ships or aircraft clearly marked and identifiable as being on government service.

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/closindx.htm


Further to the above.

Under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, which for the most part codifies the law of the sea even for non-parties to the Convention, vessels on the high seas are subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of their flag state and ordinarily may not be boarded by anyone from a foreign naval ship. [1] An exception exists, however, if the boarded ship is without nationality. [2] A vessel that flies no flag and is not otherwise clearly identified with a state of registration is considered a ship without nationality. Consequently it appears that the boarding of the cargo vessel, in and of itself, did not violate international law.

From

http://www.asil.org/insigh94.cfm

Best I can do.

I shouldnt have mentioned the IMO/UN Huh?

[Skyryder]

For instance, I can't see how you can be happy to assert that the Japanese vessel rammed Ady Gil (i.e. deliberately and solely caused the accident). A collision occurred, we've all seen the videos - but what went before that short glimpse we don't know.

I do not know a lot about maritime law, but I doubt that the NZ government has got any special authority in international waters. Claiming that the government should act on behalf of Sea Shepherd because Ady Gil was an NZ registered vessel doesn't sound right to me. Neither does "the government should do something" in regards to an NZ national being apprehended for unlawful boarding of a maritime vessel in international waters.

The NZ Government or any othe for that matter do not have any authority in international waters.

On hte other two points that you raise.

Article91

Nationality of ships

1. Every State shall fix the conditions for the grant of its nationality to ships, for the registration of ships in its territory, and for the right to fly its flag. Ships have the nationality of the State whose flag they are entitled to fly. There must exist a genuine link between the State and the ship.

2. Every State shall issue to ships to which it has granted the right to fly its flag documents to that effect.



A New Zealander has been detained on a foreighn vessel. The Government has an obligation to offer assistance to it's nationals where applicable reguardles off the offence.

Skyryder

[Mully]

A New Zealander has been detained on a foreighn vessel. The Government has an obligation to offer assistance to it's nationals where applicable reguardles off the offence.


I thought (and I could be wrong, of course) that the Government was supposed to provide consulate assistance to any citizen who has been detained. It's not unreasonable to say that while he's at sea, there's no NZ Consulate to assist (in fact, in international waters, whether the NZ consulate could assist would be interesting)

So if he jumped on the ship in international waters, the Japs are probably entitled to take him to Japan in order to 'Detain" him - at which point, he should get assistance.

Actually, weren't SS saying at one point that he was refusing to leave.

[Swoop]

Can't we all just sit down with some Whale 'n Chips and get along??
I guess you'd need a bloody big tank bag to ride home with that takeaway!



A bit weird trying to conduct a "citizens arrest" on the high seas. The end result should be entertaining.

[Mully]

I guess you'd need a bloody big tank bag to ride home with that takeaway!

Have you tried whale on a stick - that's hard to carry.


A bit weird trying to conduct a "citizens arrest" on the high seas. The end result should be entertaining.

Yeah - I'm still more amused by him presenting the bloke with a bill.

[Mikkel]

A New Zealander has been detained on a foreighn vessel. The Government has an obligation to offer assistance to it's nationals where applicable reguardles off the offence.

Assist yes. But if the other country plays it by the book the government can't really do a whole lot without causing a diplomatic incident. In some cases the assistance might consist of arranging the person in question to serve their prison sentence on home soil, negotiating around a death penalty or such. It doesn't mean that the NZ government is obliged to demand that an apprehended national be handed over to NZ authority.


A bit weird trying to conduct a "citizens arrest" on the high seas. The end result should be entertaining.

If I'd been the captain I would have been sorely tempted to have a play at pirates and then make him walk the plank.

[rainman]

For instance, I can't see how you can be happy to assert that the Japanese vessel rammed Ady Gil (i.e. deliberately and solely caused the accident). A collision occurred, we've all seen the videos - but what went before that short glimpse we don't know.

Fair cop, in a sense - however I'm pretty convinced from the various bits of video around that the Japs were in the wrong. Note this is not ideology but my best assessment of the evidence I've seen. Yes I could be wrong (as could all those holding the contrary position), but at least there is some evidence for this view, unlike the statements I was initially referring to.

[JimO]

Fair cop, in a sense - however I'm pretty convinced from the various bits of video around that the Japs were in the wrong. Note this is not ideology but my best assessment of the evidence I've seen. Yes I could be wrong (as could all those holding the contrary position), but at least there is some evidence for this view, unlike the statements I was initially referring to.

if SS wernt there it wouldnt have happened

[rainman]

if SS wernt there it wouldnt have happened

Um, yeah, ok - but it the Japanese whalers weren't there it wouldn't have happened either.

[FJRider]

The whole saga of the collision, reminds me of pre-start manoeuvres in the America's Cup races ... trying to keep inside the "rules" and penaltys/protests to those that dont .... and in International (Antarctic) waters ... not the best place to play that game ...

[davereid]

The NZ Government or any other for that matter do not have any authority in international waters....A New Zealander has been detained on a foreighn vessel. The Government has an obligation to offer assistance to it's nationals where applicable reguardles off the offence....Skyryder

Yes, the NZ government have to assist, just as they would have to if he were arrested in Mainland Japan.

But the Ady Gill being NZ flagged is not relevant, as it wasn't even there. It was some 12km (vertically) away.

I did a bit of googling. As far as I can tell, piracy charges are tricky to make stick, and generally no one bothers pressing them.

But if they do stick, its life sentence time.

Much better than it used to be - the gallows (and or) drawing and quartering (and or) the gibbet.

[Swoop]

I did a bit of googling. As far as I can tell, piracy charges are tricky to make stick, and generally no one bothers pressing them.
If you have been following the Somalian pirate issue, there is a lot of precedent for pirates being sent back to their own country. Far too difficult to deal with.
Being Japan... messing with "their" seafood supply will be seen as the issue.
They need to go back to culturally acceptable ways of gathering whales. Small boats and spears.

Have you tried whale on a stick - that's hard to carry.
Don't get me started on whale kebabs... they are flippin' heavy and you need a forklift to turn them over on the bbq.:oi-grr:

[Tank]

I know a lot of you dont read - but you do know that he is not detained?? and that the japs initially didnt want to take him back.

He is refusing to leave the ship. Thus forcing their hand,

Why should the NZ g'ment get involved - the japs are quite happy to treat him well and let him go whenever he wants - the fact that he has decided he does not want to leave and is causing a fuss should not require the g'ment (and our tax dollars).

So fuck him.

[Mikkel]

Yes I could be wrong (as could all those holding the contrary position), but at least there is some evidence for this view, unlike the statements I was initially referring to.

I could be wrong too. But a few points to consider:

1) The Ady Gil being rammed by the Shonan Maru is a bit like a fly getting squashed by a hydraulic press. They should have been able to get out of the way easily (provided the ship was operational).

2) Massive media coverage was achieved (at least at these latitudes), and SS are massive attention whores - I don't think anyone is going to contest those facts. Whether their motivation is a noble cause or not is completely irrelevant.

3) The Ady Gil was insured - although the amount and whether it will be paid out is information I am not privy to. There are rumours about a wealthy benefactor being willing to chip in for a new Ady Gil as well...

So, my point is this: Even if it wasn't a deliberate act, the incident has not in any way damaged Sea Shepherd's cause - unless you happen to be somewhat critical of terrorists, in which case you probably didn't think highly of SS already. If the incident had been staged intentionally by SS they would be very cunning indeed - but, I agree, that's probably giving them too much credit.


But the Ady Gill being NZ flagged is not relevant, as it wasn't even there. It was some 12km (vertically) away.

The Mariana trench is slightly further north - and even at spring tide and with the worst case scenario for rising sea levels we'll be at least several hundred meters short of 12 km.

[onearmedbandit]

I know a lot of you dont read - but you do know that he is not detained?? and that the japs initially didnt want to take him back.

He is refusing to leave the ship. Thus forcing their hand,

Why should the NZ g'ment get involved - the japs are quite happy to treat him well and let him go whenever he wants - the fact that he has decided he does not want to leave and is causing a fuss should not require the g'ment (and our tax dollars).

So fuck him.

+1. Surely if the SS were following the Japanese ship he is on, the Japanese could just send them a message that they'll find their man bobbing about in the ocean after a 'most vely unfoltunate srip off boat'?

[Swoop]

+1. Surely if the SS were following the Japanese ship he is on, the Japanese could just send them a message that they'll find their man bobbing about in the ocean after a 'most vely unfoltunate srip off boat'?
More likely that he would be thrown overboard for being an "undersized catch".:rofl:

[Marmoot]

He is refusing to leave the ship.

Because where else can you get a whale steak?

[mashman]

Because where else can you get a whale steak?

Norway?...

[marty]

UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA


Article110\
Right of visit
.......deleted
Best I can do.

Thanks for that. I would think that breaching a convention is not necessarily an act of piracy. Bethune can probably be held for the breach, but what is he to be charged with?

[jim.cox]

Because where else can you get a whale steak?

Nome, Barrow or the other coastal north slope native villages...

[onearmedbandit]

Being a hippie?

[rainman]

For those of you a little hard of imagination, this is what a real PM does: http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/3349443/Stop-whaling-or-face-fight-Rudd

[Mully]

Yeah


serious about a threat made two years ago to challenge the hunt in an international court

"Alright, Japan. I'm going to count to three. One. Two. Two and a half. Two and three quarters"

Not gonna happen.

[Skyryder]

For those of you a little hard of imagination, this is what a real PM does: http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/3349443/Stop-whaling-or-face-fight-Rudd

Yea not like our PM. To busy trying to off load his Uranium shares to his son. Here's the PM of nuclear free country telling the world that he offered his shares to his son and the son not wanting them. What an embarressment. The son having more intergrity than our Prime Minister. No wonder many see Key as a Clown. :banana:

http://www.thestandard.org.nz/g-espiner-tires-of-keys-empty-grin/

and

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/casual-key-must-sharpen-up-3367500


Skyryder

[LBD]

And if he does get to Japan and they do decide to put him on trial instead of putting him on the next plane out with a one way ticket, then the SS will hire a big team of hot shot lawyers costing zillions $ per hour..plus costs to defend their man....and 30 seconds into the trial the best thing the judge could do is say insufficient evidence or some such and "Case dismissed" I can see the hot shot lawyers all looking at one another...um now what? no big publicity trial.

Then as the defendant is walking out the court room, he gets hand cuffed and slapped in jail for being an illegal alien....after all he did not need to visit Japan and he did so knowingly without a visa....

[JimO]

perhaps we can send skyrider over there seeing as he can do better than Key

[rainman]

perhaps we can send skyrider over there seeing as he can do better than Key

Not saying anything negative about Skyryder here but (if I had one) my dog could do a better job than Key.

[Mully]

Not saying anything negative about Skyryder here but (if I had one) my dog could do a better job than Key.

Well, since Faill Goof seems intent on throwing the next election, I presume Skyryder will be running?

[rainman]

Well, since Faill Goof seems intent on throwing the next election, I presume Skyryder will be running?

You raise a good point there, Mr Mully. We are not spoiled for choice when it comes to good politicians. But I'd settle for Goff over any of the National front bench, tbh. Tolley, English, Brownlee, Smith (not Lockwood, he's been a pleasant surprise as speaker), Bennett, Lee... what a bunch of incompetents.

[Skyryder]

You raise a good point there, Mr Mully. We are not spoiled for choice when it comes to good politicians. But I'd settle for Goff over any of the National front bench, tbh. Tolley, English, Brownlee, Smith (not Lockwood, he's been a pleasant surprise as speaker), Bennett, Lee... what a bunch of incompetents.

Not to mention the bullshit that comes out of them.

Seems English has caught on to this tactic as well.

His lie that the that the economy grew by 0.9% a year in Labour’s last term in office is a case in point. In fact the GDP did not average out to 0.9% in the three years of Labours last term as English claims but grew to 1.7% close to double of what English states.

Of course the 2.2% of the Nats first year looks good until you realize that the 0.2% growth in the June and September quarters are a dismal failure when these are compared with countries like Aus the US and UK who have had growth rates for the same quarter of over 1%.

If there was any competency we should be experiencing strong growth rates too but since English was too occupied in his taxpayer rorts, Key to occupied in his investment portfolio’s, photo ops and holidays, is it any wonder that our employment rate is still rising while they are in decline everywhere else.

I'll leave Brownlies lieing over conservation mining for another day.

Skyryder

[JimO]

Not to mention the bullshit that comes out of them.

Seems English has caught on to this tactic as well.

His lie that the that the economy grew by 0.9% a year in Labour’s last term in office is a case in point. In fact the GDP did not average out to 0.9% in the three years of Labours last term as English claims but grew to 1.7% close to double of what English states.

Of course the 2.2% of the Nats first year looks good until you realize that the 0.2% growth in the June and September quarters are a dismal failure when these are compared with countries like Aus the US and UK who have had growth rates for the same quarter of over 1%.

If there was any competency we should be experiencing strong growth rates too but since English was too occupied in his taxpayer rorts, Key to occupied in his investment portfolio’s, photo ops and holidays, is it any wonder that our employment rate is still rising while they are in decline everywhere else.

I'll leave Brownlies lieing over conservation mining for another day.

Skyryder

why dont you fuck off to some political forum to spout your anti national tripe

[Tank]

Yea not like our PM. To busy trying to off load his Uranium shares to his son. Here's the PM of nuclear free country telling the world that he offered his shares to his son and the son not wanting them. What an embarressment. The son having more intergrity than our Prime Minister. No wonder many see Key as a Clown. :banana:

http://www.thestandard.org.nz/g-espiner-tires-of-keys-empty-grin/

and

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/casual-key-must-sharpen-up-3367500


Skyryder

that pathetic story and the fact that mouth breathers focus on it just shows why people on the left should not be allowed to vote..

Its a nothing story - but just shows how desperate they are. BTW I see goofy goff is still polling longer than helen clarke.

Now back to laughing at fucktard greenies who get in front of big assed ships.

[Skyryder]

that pathetic story and the fact that mouth breathers focus on it just shows why people on the left should not be allowed to vote..

Its a nothing story - but just shows how desperate they are. BTW I see goofy goff is still polling longer than helen clarke.

Now back to laughing at fucktard greenies who get in front of big assed ships.

Pathetic or not a lie is a lie. Says a lot about English and his not a 'good look' excuses. But you are right back to the topic.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

why dont you fuck off to some political forum to spout your anti national tripe

I do.

Skyryder

[puddytat]

Typical responses from the rednecks.....:yawn::zzzz:

[kwaka_crasher]

Greenpeace != Sea Shepherd

p.s. "!=" equals "does not equal".

Just for you... ≠

[jimmy 2006]

i hope the give him a room with a veiw over the back deck so he can watch the whales get slaughtered.