Ongoing ACC protest actions - discussion thread

[Bald Eagle]

Well we had Bikeoi and then we came back with the Unions.Now it's time to move on and get the next phase focused and happening.

Whats the best 'sound bite' message
What can we sell / motivate John and Jane Q Public with.

What type of activities can we undertake leading us to Bikeoi II - The Anniversary.


Get your thinking caps on people.

[Ratti]

best sound bite?

"I pay your wage to provide the service I want, do what I say or you're fired"

[Scuba_Steve]

how bout the "anti-Bullshit campaign" after all the chant was quit popular :LOL:

We could always move it up a level from the "who's next???" to "your next!!!", might get peoples attention a bit more being as it appears as tho its directed at them personally rather than at all of them as a collective (if you get what I mean).
This should rev their engines a bit more & enforce the fact that this WILL affect them.

[Hopeful Bastard]

One that will get everones attention is More for Less.. More cash. Less ACC

OR that Car rego goes up..

OR using your Holiday and Sick leave before ACC can kick in. That will sure get peoples attention..

[P38]

I Like "Your Next" ..... especially directed towards Nick Smith and his National Party Mates.

"Your Next" will also get their attention come election time too.

or My personal favourite

National Government: ...... "Making Aussi Citizens Out of Hard Working Kiwis Since Ages Ago"

[MSTRS]

ACC. Are YOU hurting? Yet?

[caseye]

try this
"ACC 4 WHO" with a cartoon caricature of a car, a bike, a push bike, all with ACC Crosses through them.

Theres not going to be anyone left, able to pay for it, let alone become a deneficiery of it.

[Pedrostt500]

How about a Undie Ride, yes Boys and Girls, We pick a muster point, say the Velodrome in Hataitai, down through the Mt Vic tunnel, around the Basin reserve down, Cambridge Tce, along Courtney Place onto Dixon St, Down Willis St, onto Lambto Quay, turn onto Molesworth St, Up to Tinakori Rd, upto Bowen St, onto the Terrace, up Salamanka Rd, and regroup at the Kelburn Park.
This Could be " What do we Have to do to be Noticed Ride", any one who wants to ride in less than their undies is welcome to do so, though I'm a Fat Ugly bastard so will probably be offered money to put my clothes back on, Minimum Saftey gear is Boots, Gloves and Helmet, My geuss is that no copper would be game to shut this down with 100 bikes involved, but more the better.

[Robert Taylor]

Conquiztador is right that this has become political and many if not most bikers might prefer that it is an apololitical campaign. For me there is no way that were I actively involved that I would want unionist agitators and left wing activists as bedffellows

[Ratti]

yup, that'll get us noticed.

I'd come along to watch...naked biker dudes...yum!

[Fatt Max]

How about a Undie Ride, yes Boys and Girls, We pick a muster point, say the Velodrome in Hataitai, down through the Mt Vic tunnel, around the Basin reserve down, Cambridge Tce, along Courtney Place onto Dixon St, Down Willis St, onto Lambto Quay, turn onto Molesworth St, Up to Tinakori Rd, upto Bowen St, onto the Terrace, up Salamanka Rd, and regroup at the Kelburn Park.
This Could be " What do we Have to do to be Noticed Ride", any one who wants to ride in less than their undies is welcome to do so, though I'm a Fat Ugly bastard so will probably be offered money to put my clothes back on, Minimum Saftey gear is Boots, Gloves and Helmet, My geuss is that no copper would be game to shut this down with 100 bikes involved, but more the better.

Seriously good idea. If we could co-ordinate across the main centres, do, say, a 10km loop aroud each town starting at noon, could call it the "Biker Moons at Noon' run.

Nah, reckon that would be good, if we do it in July than we can prove that bikers will do ANYTHING to get the ACC message across, even a winter nuddy run...biker nuddy buddies..... Yes, up for this...

[Ratti]

yikes...ACC listen to us and do what we want ..dont make FM do this

we could wear hi vis vests to make our point about how safety concious bikers are

[Pedrostt500]

yikes...ACC listen to us and do what we want ..dont make FM do this

we could wear hi vis vests to make our point about how safety concious bikers are

How about be Painted Saftey Yellow.

[mashman]

How about a Undie Ride, yes Boys and Girls, We pick a muster point, say the Velodrome in Hataitai, down through the Mt Vic tunnel, around the Basin reserve down, Cambridge Tce, along Courtney Place onto Dixon St, Down Willis St, onto Lambto Quay, turn onto Molesworth St, Up to Tinakori Rd, upto Bowen St, onto the Terrace, up Salamanka Rd, and regroup at the Kelburn Park.
This Could be " What do we Have to do to be Noticed Ride", any one who wants to ride in less than their undies is welcome to do so, though I'm a Fat Ugly bastard so will probably be offered money to put my clothes back on, Minimum Saftey gear is Boots, Gloves and Helmet, My geuss is that no copper would be game to shut this down with 100 bikes involved, but more the better.

Very good idea. Why not start at the airports? Take the Undie Ride through departures, people scratching their heads, with any luck a politician, something to talk about on the plane maybe, then on to wherever...

[Ratti]

How about be Painted Saftey Yellow.

nah it would tickle

[Pedrostt500]

Conquiztador is right that this has become political and many if not most bikers might prefer that it is an apololitical campaign. For me there is no way that were I actively involved that I would want unionist agitators and left wing activists as bedffellows

Well Tuesdays Ralley Proved to me that the Unions have lost the Teeth they had in the 1970s and 1980s, in fact I now think that the Unions need their Politics Pureed for them.
It is hard to keep the politics out of this type of thing, I personaly think that Apathy is our Enemy in this battle, rather than left wing or right wing politics, there are People in this who will be using it to further their own agends, I prefeer it when they stand up and say " I am in this Because...", than Hiding behind us then trying to take advantage, of us at the last Minute, Like a certain Ulysseys President tried to do.

[Pedrostt500]

Seriously good idea. If we could co-ordinate across the main centres, do, say, a 10km loop aroud each town starting at noon, could call it the "Biker Moons at Noon' run.

Nah, reckon that would be good, if we do it in July than we can prove that bikers will do ANYTHING to get the ACC message across, even a winter nuddy run...biker nuddy buddies..... Yes, up for this...

Had you picked for a Frankenfurter from Rocky Horror Picture Show.

[DEVVIL]

Seriously good idea. If we could co-ordinate across the main centres, do, say, a 10km loop aroud each town starting at noon, could call it the "Biker Moons at Noon' run.

Nah, reckon that would be good, if we do it in July than we can prove that bikers will do ANYTHING to get the ACC message across, even a winter nuddy run...biker nuddy buddies..... Yes, up for this...
Undie 500 run lol
If that wont get media attention what will.:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

[bogan]

The recent changes made, or in the process of being made; sick leave/holiday, reduction of services, and I hear the claims will be transfered to sickness benefit after 2 years... will vastly change the true levy costs for bikers, cagers etc, will they not? I realise these changes have not been implementing, but plans to both reduce cost to make up the "shortfall", and increase levies to make up the "shortfall", wont that make it up and then some?

[Pedrostt500]

The recent changes made, or in the process of being made; sick leave/holiday, reduction of services, and I hear the claims will be transfered to sickness benefit after 2 years... will vastly change the true levy costs for bikers, cagers etc, will they not? I realise these changes have not been implementing, but plans to both reduce cost to make up the "shortfall", and increase levies to make up the "shortfall", wont that make it up and then some?

Yes it will make up a nice proffit to hand over to an Aussie Insurace Company, who will then in time to ccome pay out some fat divdends to certain politicians and civil servants who did some favours for them back when.

[caseye]

And that ladies and gentleman of the Jury is exactly where this all leads.Fucking backhanders from our Polies to an Ozzie firm for back handers to same pollies later on.Nothing in this for the NZ citizen trying to earn a decent wage and keep his family afloat in this sea of Greed and corruption.

[Pedrostt500]

And that ladies and gentleman of the Jury is exactly where this all leads.Fucking backhanders from our Polies to an Ozzie firm for back handers to same pollies later on.Nothing in this for the NZ citizen trying to earn a decent wage and keep his family afloat in this sea of Greed and corruption.

Coruption, no Sir, we at Barstard Corp Insuranc see it as rewards for sevices rendered.

[caseye]

Probably shouldn't have but i did, I sent a really shitty email to the contact for teh ACC Coalition. I told em we did it, what the hell was wrong with them.We had no money, no advertising and no nationwide network.Told em I was pissed with all unions from now on and that I sure as hell won't march with them again. Feels better that does.Can't believe those guys 80 odd of them and there they were solid as, representing, made what we did for them on Tuesday into a one ringed circus thats all it did.
Ah well lesson learned, want it done? do it yourself!

[Conquiztador]

Ride naked, ride painted, ride with pink helmets or any other BS to get attention will only get the focus away from the issue. The media will only report on the gimmic. Sure we would get noticed, but also look like dorks. And there aint many bikers who want to be on the front page in a pink leotard.

We need to show that we are angry, pissed off. All this "Mr Nice Guy" is so yesterday. 1000 pissed off bikers who stop the traffic will get more airtime than 9000 nicely behaved ones asking for a change.

Time to demand what is right. The gummint and ACC will not come to meet us at the Beehive steps anymore. They have already done that.

Again: Pick one message that all bikers will support, ride through towns and cities and stop traffic. Make sure all know that we are getting really pissed off.

[riffer]

Got to admit I'm sick of the Mr Nice Guy stuff too. I like the "what do we have to do to get you to notice" stuff, whether it's nude riding or just stopping the traffic.

I'd like to try 100 bikes in rush hour traffic, gradually slowing the traffic down to 20km/hr or less on the motorways. Not illegal, just damn irritating.

[Hopeful Bastard]

Ride naked, ride painted, ride with pink helmets or any other BS to get attention will only get the focus away from the issue. The media will only report on the gimmic. Sure we would get noticed, but also look like dorks. And there aint many bikers who want to be on the front page in a pink leotard.

We need to show that we are angry, pissed off. All this "Mr Nice Guy" is so yesterday. 1000 pissed off bikers who stop the traffic will get more airtime than 9000 nicely begaved ones asking for a change.

Time to demand what is right. The gummint and ACC will not come to meet us at the Beehive steps anymore. They have already done that.

Again: Pick one message that all bikers will support, ride through towns and cities and stop traffic. Make sure all know that we are getting really pissed off.

Now thats given me an idea..

Who has some good painting skills?? Get some water based paint, And paint on our beautiful scary bodies about why we are protesting. Target with bike in it.. Or a saying.. Or something like that.. ideas??

[Toaster]

Got to admit I'm sick of the Mr Nice Guy stuff too. I like the "what do we have to do to get you to notice" stuff, whether it's nude riding or just stopping the traffic.

I'd like to try 100 bikes in rush hour traffic, gradually slowing the traffic down to 20km/hr or less on the motorways. Not illegal, just damn irritating.

Agreed, although I suspect it would still be illegal - we would be impeding the flow of traffic which is (or at least was) an offence punishable by a $150 fine or a tray of honey-glazed doughnuts. Although I can't see anyone being easily caught in such numbers. They would probably look to charge the organiser with inciting something naughty or public nuisance.

Mind you, if its done in actual rush hour, the speed at least in Auckland wouldn't be much more than 20kmh anyway! What about something through the CBD streets and give em all something to look at, banners and flags with lots of bikes?

Maybe get Mr Smith to pillion so we have at least one Boob on a bike.

[PrincessBandit]

Had you picked for a Frankenfurter from Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Woo hoo! I've been to a few performances of the Rocky Horror Show dressed as Magenta. If I can dig up my old cossie from wherever it might be I could be persuaded to wear that on my bike.

[Ratti]

lol...me and you Kitten! shame we live so far apart. I still have the 7 inch platform heels as well. scary as they bring my height up to about 6'4", add the whip and the top hat....yeah baby!

maybe thats what we could do? whip the ACC in effigy? bonfires on grounds of parly? hurl assorted polys onto fire at appropriate times? effigies I mean, not real ones.

heck if we do this in winter we will NEED a fire just to keep warm, near naked bikers need something to huddle around.

[mashman]

Got to admit I'm sick of the Mr Nice Guy stuff too. I like the "what do we have to do to get you to notice" stuff, whether it's nude riding or just stopping the traffic.

I'd like to try 100 bikes in rush hour traffic, gradually slowing the traffic down to 20km/hr or less on the motorways. Not illegal, just damn irritating.

I'm sure it would be a pain to organise and i'm sure it was suggested by someone in another thread, but would 100 bikers taking their cars into their CBD 1 day a month, in a staggered convoy, placards in the window "I coulda been on my bike today www.inserturlhere.co.nz" in almost static traffic, blasting out Fatt Max ACC songs a possibility? and would it make enough of a difference to keep the momentum up?

[oldrider]

lol...me and you Kitten! shame we live so far apart. I still have the 7 inch platform heels as well. scary as they bring my height up to about 6'4", add the whip and the top hat....yeah baby!

Please PM me your number, if you take outcalls! :lol:

[caseye]

I'm sure it would be a pain to organise and i'm sure it was suggested by someone in another thread, but would 100 bikers taking their cars into their CBD 1 day a month, in a staggered convoy, placards in the window "I coulda been on my bike today www.inserturlhere.co.nz" in almost static traffic, blasting out Fatt Max ACC songs a possibility? and would it make enough of a difference to keep the momentum up?

mashman this would work, especially up here in Auckland. Couldn't miss, windows down stereo(got a good one at last) going and leaflet hander outers in the empty seats, enough refreshments to last a few hours and go for it.

[gazmascelle]

If anyones worried about participation for whatever idea, could always run polls like ixion (i think?) did before the bikoi last year, seemed like a good idea at the time

I agree we need to step up to get any better results.

If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got.

Undie ride, road block, whatever, count me in. Nick smith (or whoever) still has a lot to conceed

[Pedrostt500]

Governments tend to worry about Numbers in the Polls, particurly large number changes against them, but the only Poll that realy matters to any Government is the one at the end of the Three year Period.
ACC Care about their Levy take, The best way to give them a little Jolt is we put all our bikes on Hold for three months from the 1st of June, though this would be difficult for some, and very impractical for others, so would be best for those that can, particurly the fair weather riders, though I dont see why it nessasarily needs to be just a bike, or bikes that the Registration goes on hold, ie car , van Truck.

Organising any large scale type protest, with Motorcyclists involved is like Hearding Cats, I think our next big Protest has to be Parliment again in October / November, we need to double or better last years attempt as far as numbers go, ie 20,000 +, We should start beating our drums about this from the end of August on, we need the set date for this to be known by every bike rider Nation wide.

I have read a few saying how playing mister Nice Guy dosn't work, well I havn't seen any one organise and carry out a Bad Arsed Protest. Traffic delays are a fact of life in our larger Cities, for what ever reason.

On a very long term goal Increasing the number of Licensed Motorcyclists & scooter riders on our Roads and streets, helps give us numbers, this would have pay offs for us as motorcyclists and for the Industry, if we could Double the number of registered motorcycles in the next 10 years.
Getting more Motorcyclists into Local body and Central Governments would also help advance our cause. Any one for our first biker Prime Minister?.

Groups and Organizations Like BRONZ growing their numbers, with both active and non active members, I know for some BRONZ is a dirty Acronym, but when some one can give me a better option then I will join them.

[Ratti]

I think StoneY has his eye on the job

[oldrider]

Governments tend to worry about Numbers in the Polls, particurly large number changes against them, but the only Poll that realy matters to any Government is the one at the end of the Three year Period.
ACC Care about their Levy take, The best way to give them a little Jolt is we put all our bikes on Hold for three months from the 1st of June, though this would be difficult for some, and very impractical for others, so would be best for those that can, particurly the fair weather riders, though I dont see why it nessasarily needs to be just a bike, or bikes that the Registration goes on hold, ie car , van Truck.

Suggested alternative to putting registrations on "hold for three months"!

Simply "register" all our vehicles for three months at a time only!

LTSA will be clogged and will probably have to take on extra staff and boost systems to cope, while we still ride and drive!

LTSA will be doing our screaming for us and sharing the love! :love:

[Scuba_Steve]

Suggested alternative to putting registrations on "hold for three months"!

Simply "register" all our vehicles for three months at a time only!

LTSA will be clogged and will probably have to take on extra staff and boost systems to cope, while we still ride and drive!

LTSA will be doing our screaming for us and sharing the love! :love:

It wouldn't do alot, If your've ever used the online vehicle licensing system to license your vehicle, it only takes them about as long as that to process 1 so the only thing it would do is have the people there work for their money for once.

Best protest we could ever do is Reg on hold on all our vehicles like I've said before if we could get every BIKEOI member to put his/her family vehicles on hold studies say this would be an avg of 2 bike & 2 "car like" vehicles per Biker or at least 40,000 vehicles if every BIKEOI protester did it a.k.a. at least $12mil non profit to the Govt.
As well as this it would clog the courts as to actually fine you the police MUST take you to court at their own expense those pieces of paper they hand you are NOT fines (read the back) however if you pay you admit guilt & they get away with it, so don't pay they legally HAVE to take you to court & thus 40,000 court cases mean a hell of a lot of clogging to the system, the Govt would have to listen pretty much immediately and as we would have them by the (metaphorical) balls they would have to listen to all our demands! (and this is just if we had only the BIKEOI people doing it the more people the more chaos!) viva la revolution lol

[phred]

I say we just shoot Nick Smuth and be done with it.
No one needs time off work and there is minimal risk to the motorcycling public so ACC levies won't go up.

No exuse for a mass ride though so I gues this idea won't get much support.

[caseye]

It wouldn't do alot, If your've ever used the online vehicle licensing system to license your vehicle, it only takes them about as long as that to process 1 so the only thing it would do is have the people there work for their money for once.

Best protest we could ever do is Reg on hold on all our vehicles like I've said before if we could get every BIKEOI member to put his/her family vehicles on hold studies say this would be an avg of 2 bike & 2 "car like" vehicles per Biker or at least 40,000 vehicles if every BIKEOI protester did it a.k.a. at least $12mil non profit to the Govt.
As well as this it would clog the courts as to actually fine you the police MUST take you to court at their own expense those pieces of paper they hand you are NOT fines (read the back) however if you pay you admit guilt & they get away with it, so don't pay they legally HAVE to take you to court & thus 40,000 court cases mean a hell of a lot of clogging to the system, the Govt would have to listen pretty much immediately and as we would have them by the (metaphorical) balls they would have to listen to all our demands! (and this is just if we had only the BIKEOI people doing it the more people the more chaos!) viva la revolution lol

Best idea I've Seen Yet! Come on our legal beagles is this 100% accurate,? IF SO LETS DO IT!

[Fatt Max]

It wouldn't do alot, If your've ever used the online vehicle licensing system to license your vehicle, it only takes them about as long as that to process 1 so the only thing it would do is have the people there work for their money for once.

Best protest we could ever do is Reg on hold on all our vehicles like I've said before if we could get every BIKEOI member to put his/her family vehicles on hold studies say this would be an avg of 2 bike & 2 "car like" vehicles per Biker or at least 40,000 vehicles if every BIKEOI protester did it a.k.a. at least $12mil non profit to the Govt.
As well as this it would clog the courts as to actually fine you the police MUST take you to court at their own expense those pieces of paper they hand you are NOT fines (read the back) however if you pay you admit guilt & they get away with it, so don't pay they legally HAVE to take you to court & thus 40,000 court cases mean a hell of a lot of clogging to the system, the Govt would have to listen pretty much immediately and as we would have them by the (metaphorical) balls they would have to listen to all our demands! (and this is just if we had only the BIKEOI people doing it the more people the more chaos!) viva la revolution lol

Yes, I like this.......

Is there going to be a BIKEOI No 2 later this year? I heard October / November muted at the last meet. Imagine getting the numbers down there with on hold regos, take the message right to the front door so to speak....'come and have a go if you think you're hard enough...'

Fuck, I'm so on for another one, I'll even get some new songs, might even lay off the pies for a while......

[caseye]

Yes, I like this.......

Is there going to be a BIKEOI No 2 later this year? I heard October / November muted at the last meet. Imagine getting the numbers down there with on hold regos, take the message right to the front door so to speak....'come and have a go if you think you're hard enough...'

Fuck, I'm so on for another one, I'll even get some new songs, might even lay off the pies for a while......

No !@#$% Eat Pies FattMax ya cannae change yer shape now.LOL Yes Bikhoi 2 is planned for the anniversary of the 1st one so it's Nov 2010.
Have corresponed with the ACC coalition telling them that I/we were not impressed with their dismall effort. Got the stock standard, too many worried about their jobs, not that many union types in Welly etc etc.

[Conquiztador]

No !@#$% Eat Pies FattMax ya cannae change yer shape now.LOL Yes Bikhoi 2 is planned for the anniversary of the 1st one so it's Nov 2010.
Have corresponed with the ACC coalition telling them that I/we were not impressed with their dismall effort. Got the stock standard, too many worried about their jobs, not that many union types in Welly etc etc.

Pathetic they are!

What is happening re keeping the pressure on? To rely on a once a year Bikeoi will not be enough!

[caseye]

Good question, seems we've all gone off the boil a bit here.

[Ratti]

Its like an orgasm dear, takes a while to get there, then its all on, then there is a period where one rests and recovers for the next round...we are in recovery for the next time

[Conquiztador]

Its like an orgasm dear, takes a while to get there, then its all on, then there is a period where one rests and recovers for the next round...we are in recovery for the next time

I take that U never had multiple ones then...:devil2:

[Ratti]

cant say that I have. Im not greedy, just let the first one rollon for a while. then have another go later. We should really take this discussion to another thread. Multiple orgasm-fact or fiction? Go on, get started, I'll meet you there

[Bald Eagle]

I take that U never had multiple ones then...:devil2:


cant say that I have. Im not greedy, just let the first one rollon for a while. then have another go later. We should really take this discussion to another thread. Multiple orgasm-fact or fiction? Go on, get started, I'll meet you there

he be finished before you get there :cry: :lol:

[grantnz]

Have you read the news today, ACC has performed $222.million dollars better than budgeted for> Nick's Myth has just been shot to pieces, but he says they are not out of the woods yet and the proposed increases are still nessasary. Can we get 10,000 bikes to Parliment in the next week to capitalise on this ?

[Pixie]

Woo hoo! I've been to a few performances of the Rocky Horror Show dressed as Magenta. If I can dig up my old cossie from wherever it might be I could be persuaded to wear that on my bike.


lol...me and you Kitten! shame we live so far apart. I still have the 7 inch platform heels as well. scary as they bring my height up to about 6'4", add the whip and the top hat....yeah baby!

maybe thats what we could do? whip the ACC in effigy? bonfires on grounds of parly? hurl assorted polys onto fire at appropriate times? effigies I mean, not real ones.

heck if we do this in winter we will NEED a fire just to keep warm, near naked bikers need something to huddle around.

Oh god:slap:

To quote Clancy Wiggum:"How many gazebos do you she-males need?!"

[Ratti]

dont get your quote sweety, PB and I are both women..ALL women,no dangly bits!

[Fatt Max]

Have you read the news today, ACC has performed $222.million dollars better than budgeted for> Nick's Myth has just been shot to pieces, but he says they are not out of the woods yet and the proposed increases are still nessasary. Can we get 10,000 bikes to Parliment in the next week to capitalise on this ?

Faaarrk, where did you see this mate? Is there a link anywhere. If I am not mistaken, this is potentially huge ammunition......

[Conquiztador]

Faaarrk, where did you see this mate? Is there a link anywhere. If I am not mistaken, this is potentially huge ammunition......

Here a link to the ACC surplus: http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10630194&ref=rss But the 222million is wrong. It is actually $664 million better than forecast: "Much of the difference is a $664 million better-than-forecast performance by ACC and a $122 million positive surprise from the NZ Superannuation Fund."

[grantnz]

ACC not out of the woods yet says SmithNZPA
March 5, 2010, 6:08 pm
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Improved financial performance does not mean ACC has emerged from its financial troubles, ACC Minister Nick Smith said today.

Treasury reported today as part of the Crown accounts that ACC had returned to positive territory after losing money on its investment and blowing budgets due to higher claims and treatment costs.

Treasury said it had turned around a forecast loss of $87 million to a gain of $255 million in the first seven months of the financial year to December.

"This variance mainly reflects the impact of claims experience due to fewer claims than expected in receipt of weekly compensation," Treasury said.

"There were also decreases in rehabilitation and medical costs."

Recent poor return on investments also continued to turn around with Treasury saying returns were $222 million better than forecast.

Dr Smith said ACC had worked hard in getting cost increases under control to 2 percent in 2009, compared to 15 percent in the previous 15 years.

"It is very encouraging that the hard yards they are doing are starting to show results," Dr Smith said.

The Government recently passed legislation pruning some ACC treatments and coverage.

Asked if the latest information might show the changes were unnecessary, Dr Smith said they were still needed.

"Quite the opposite. The cost growth of 15 percent was unsustainable and got ACC into trouble. There is still a lot of work to be done to maintain cost increases at the rate of inflation."

[Robert Taylor]

Faaarrk, where did you see this mate? Is there a link anywhere. If I am not mistaken, this is potentially huge ammunition......

When on a trip from my workplace to home this afternoon ( a 7 minute journey through sleepy suburbs ) I spotted 3 motorcyclists wearing shorts. It seems that the motorcycling community has a lot to do to clean up its act, that would generate savings and lessen the burden on taxpayers.

[MSTRS]

When on a trip from my workplace to home this afternoon ( a 7 minute journey through sleepy suburbs ) I spotted 3 motorcyclists wearing shorts. It seems that the motorcycling community has a lot to do to clean up its act, that would generate savings and lessen the burden on taxpayers.

Careful, Robert. You'll get into trouble for suggesting that it's not a free country...

[Robert Taylor]

Careful, Robert. You'll get into trouble for suggesting that it's not a free country...

Well, some are lucky its not full blown user pays. When I see idiots riding around wearing little protective clothing Im thinking we are subsidiosing your recovery if you throw yourself down the road.........................tossers.

[MSTRS]

Well, some are lucky its not full blown user pays. When I see idiots riding around wearing little protective clothing Im thinking we are subsidiosing your recovery if you throw yourself down the road.........................tossers.

Oh absolutely...the problem is that if one suggests, say, a sliding scale of cover dependent on gear worn, one gets reamed...

[Bald Eagle]

Oh absolutely...the problem is that if one suggests, say, a sliding scale of cover dependent on gear worn, one gets reamed...


.. that's 'cos of the 'sliding'

[caseye]

Theres always ONE aye MSTRS?
bloody rasim fasim baldy Birds.
LOL too true mate, it is the "sliding" scale .
I've lamented the lack of gear worn by many only to be told that they're big boys(and girls) an if they wanna play without protective gear they will.
If there was one thing wrong with ACC as it stood, it's the complete absence of blame with regards to prevention of injury on the part of the victims and protagonists.
In other words if you wore all the gear and got hurt, no worries.
Didn't have protective trou lost a leg, OK, well um,l cover for all other injuries sustained but not for the leg.WHY, simple, encourage the rider to wear the right type of clothing.
Yes, I know, with or without protective gear some are going to be so badly hurt that it won't matter.
What matters , IS that they made an effort to prevent! In which case they are covered completely.
Might be hard initially to ascertain if gear of any sort was used, but once a way is found to determine that, it should only be a matter of, yes protective gear was in use, claim OK'd, no it wasn't claim paid on injuries prevented by use of gear but not where it was not in use.
This is a touchy subject, but what is upsetting me is the number of people who think it is a right to travel on our roads unprotected and be looked after, without lifting a finger to help themsleves first.
It's not just us motorcyclists, take a look at the dumbarses riding pushbikes wearing LYCRA suits, um they stop what happening to the wearer?
Car drivers, no seat belts!
The list goes on.

[Conquiztador]

So you are saying Day Glows, armour, $2K leathers and $1K helmets. And if not, no ACC?

[gazmascelle]

When on a trip from my workplace to home this afternoon ( a 7 minute journey through sleepy suburbs ) I spotted 3 motorcyclists wearing shorts. It seems that the motorcycling community has a lot to do to clean up its act, that would generate savings and lessen the burden on taxpayers.

I agree, see it here all the time. Trouble is if cover becomes dependant on these sorts of things then everything becomes an excuse to decline cover. say you catch a ride home from the pubs, your mate has one too many, stacks it on the way home - would you be covered?

when in a car I'd get a fine for not wearing a seatbelt, but i could ride my bike in a pair of shorts and a helmet no worries, maybe this is something our government should have considered a while ago? ah well

[MSTRS]

So you are saying Day Glows, armour, $2K leathers and $1K helmets. And if not, no ACC?

Not at all.
There is no doubt that it's a tricky one. All I know is that I cringe when I see anyone on a bike wearing little-to-nothing in the way of gear, other than a helmet. I cringe, because I can only imagine the nasty injuries that lack of basic safety gear can/will contribute to, as well as resenting the fact that there are almost countless millions spent on treating such (un-necessary) injuries that we all pay for.
Whilst I can see why the system has to be the way it is, it does not mean that I am happy about it. Perhaps if my 'premium' was reduced because I gear up, that would go some way towards easing my cringe reaction.

[bogan]

Not at all.
There is no doubt that it's a tricky one. All I know is that I cringe when I see anyone on a bike wearing little-to-nothing in the way of gear, other than a helmet. I cringe, because I can only imagine the nasty injuries that lack of basic safety gear can/will contribute to, as well as resenting the fact that there are almost countless millions spent on treating such (un-necessary) injuries that we all pay for.
Whilst I can see why the system has to be the way it is, it does not mean that I am happy about it. Perhaps if my 'premium' was reduced because I gear up, that would go some way towards easing my cringe reaction.

but if we dont allow people to take unnesesary risk it is a slippery slope, (no gene-o-clean!) that sort of thinking has been adopted by the government with regard to motorcycling as a whole; bikes are too dangerous, lets make (well currently they are only at the strongly encorage stage) them take cars instead. And dropping premiums based on gear worn would be very hard to police, however it is about bloody time there was a motorcycle/scooter gear safety ad campaign run!

[swbarnett]

Well, some are lucky its not full blown user pays. When I see idiots riding around wearing little protective clothing Im thinking we are subsidiosing your recovery if you throw yourself down the road.........................tossers.

Let's see if I have this straight:

Fact 1: If you have an accident while riding a bike with no protective gear you will sustain more and more serious injuries than with full protective gear.

Agreed.

Fact 2: If you have an accident while riding a bike (gear or not) you will sustain more and more serious injuries than while driving a car.

With this I also agree.

By your reasonong, as a direct concequence of fact 1 above, no gear - no ACC.

OK, given fact 2 above, why not deny ACC to ALL bikers because we did not take the reasonable precaution of driving a car instead?


The idea of denying ACC on the basis of not wearing protective gear (or any other action deemed to increase risk or severity of injury) is utterly ludicrous and will only lead to a cotton-wool society where bikes (among other things) are banned outright.

[DEVVIL]

So you are saying Day Glows, armour, $2K leathers and $1K helmets. And if not, no ACC?

After all that you have to use up all you're sick pay and A/leave first.
After all that you only get 70% for the first twelve mouths.
After all that you only get 60% for the second twelve mouths.
After all that you're a beneficiary now
Oh PAY MORE GET LESS! or make it not worth it to most hard working people with 8 to 12 weeks Sick and A/L.

[Berries]

OK, given fact 2 above, why not deny ACC to ALL bikers because we did not take the reasonable precaution of driving a car instead?

Agree. The best protection a motorbike rider can wear is probably a metal cage, perhaps with a wheel in each corner to make it a bit more stable. Then of course you would have to have a five star ANCAP cage, not some shonky two star with only ten airbags. Where does it stop ?

[HQfiend]

Dunno if this is the right place to drop this but saw it on another forum and they got the nations attention.

http://ukfrancebikers.com/2010/03/14/french-motorcyclists-more-angry-than-ever/

Especially liked their idea of the statement with the metro as an alternative means.

[HQfiend]

And from Australia another http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/malcolmfarr/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/on_yer_bike_as_long_as_it_has_a_motor/

[MisterE]

Great articles from overseas. I think the one from Oz really drives the real underlying cause of all of this. The fact is, bikers are lumped in to the same group as smokers. They add no value whatsoever to society so it's okay to try and tax them out of existence. This will continue until we can achieve some recognition from the government & the community of the many positives associated with bike riding.

Some points in support
- Motorcyclists are banned from filtering through traffic or using outside lanes because, supposedly, this is dangerous (compared to what I have to ask). No recognition whatsoever for the green benefits of motorcycling.
- The company I work for has just achieved green building recognition. Part of this was the fact that over 200 spaces have been provided for cyclists. Guess how many points you get for providing motorcycle parking?

My view is that we need a strategy that looks to align us with the lycra brigade. The easiest way to do this is to steal one of their ideas. So how about a "Take your motorcycle to work" day? A perfect opportunity for us to get recognised for all the right reasons.

So what other things can be done to highlight the green aspect of motorcycling?

Oh, and one last thing. For me, Here are the protests that I will be pursuing around ACC levies.
- I will not be paying the new fees. My bike rego will go on hold and stay on hold. If I am caught, I will refuse to pay. I will have my day in court. I will take every possible opportunity to clog the legal system on this issue. I will choose home detention, periodic detention, prison, anything other than supporting or acknowledging a system that I do not support.
- I will eventually be swapping my safe, sensible 900cc bike for an R6 or ZX6. Much safer :)

[bogan]

Great articles from overseas. I think the one from Oz really drives the real underlying cause of all of this. The fact is, bikers are lumped in to the same group as smokers. They add no value whatsoever to society so it's okay to try and tax them out of existence. This will continue until we can achieve some recognition from the government & the community of the many positives associated with bike riding.

Some points in support
- Motorcyclists are banned from filtering through traffic or using outside lanes because, supposedly, this is dangerous (compared to what I have to ask). No recognition whatsoever for the green benefits of motorcycling.
- The company I work for has just achieved green building recognition. Part of this was the fact that over 200 spaces have been provided for cyclists. Guess how many points you get for providing motorcycle parking?

My view is that we need a strategy that looks to align us with the lycra brigade. The easiest way to do this is to steal one of their ideas. So how about a "Take your motorcycle to work" day? A perfect opportunity for us to get recognised for all the right reasons.

So what other things can be done to highlight the green aspect of motorcycling?

Oh, and one last thing. For me, Here are the protests that I will be pursuing around ACC levies.
- I will not be paying the new fees. My bike rego will go on hold and stay on hold. If I am caught, I will refuse to pay. I will have my day in court. I will take every possible opportunity to clog the legal system on this issue. I will choose home detention, periodic detention, prison, anything other than supporting or acknowledging a system that I do not support.
- I will eventually be swapping my safe, sensible 900cc bike for an R6 or ZX6. Much safer :)

All good points, cept the take motorcycle to work day, don't we all do that already :bleh: who would take anything else when they can ride!

Ixion hinted at another protest when the changes come into effect, perhaps a number-plate-less protest? or one that focuses on the greener aspects of biking?

The platelss protest would show that if 1 in 3 riders of over 600cc bikes and 1 in 4 of those under 600cc stopped registering their bikes ACC would not have any increase in revenue, while still having the same payout costs.

[kwaka_crasher]

The company I work for has just achieved green building recognition. Part of this was the fact that over 200 spaces have been provided for cyclists. Guess how many points you get for providing motorcycle parking?

Companies need to stop buying into this money spinning bullshit invented by the extreme left. I avoid anyone that says they're 'carbon neutral' on principle.


My view is that we need a strategy that looks to align us with the lycra brigade.

Fuck no. I refuse to be associated with those wankstain cretins in any way whatsoever.

[Ixion]

All good points, cept the take motorcycle to work day, don't we all do that already :bleh: who would take anything else when they can ride!

Ixion hinted at another protest when the changes come into effect, perhaps a number-plate-less protest? or one that focuses on the greener aspects of biking?

The platelss protest would show that if 1 in 3 riders of over 600cc bikes and 1 in 4 of those under 600cc stopped registering their bikes ACC would not have any increase in revenue, while still having the same payout costs.

BRONZ tried doing the "Ride to Work" day a couple of years, but we gave it up because it didn't make any difference. By and large bikers do ride to work, those that don't it's because they can't

Input is actively solicted for a 'gimmick' or theme for the protest at the end of June.

[Conquiztador]

BRONZ tried doing the "Ride to Work" day a couple of years, but we gave it up because it didn't make any difference. By and large bikers do ride to work, those that don't it's because they can't

Input is actively solicted for a 'gimmick' or theme for the protest at the end of June.

Agree re the "ride2work" idea. I can very seldom ride the bike to work. Thou when I can I do. But when I travel to a conference or meeting around the country I almost each time ride. I could fly but that is soo boring. Or I could use the car but that is so slow...

[Berries]

The platelss protest would show that if 1 in 3 riders of over 600cc bikes and 1 in 4 of those under 600cc stopped registering their bikes ACC would not have any increase in revenue, while still having the same payout costs.

Not sure how long that would last before the rules change and there would be no cover if you hadn't paid your levy.

[bogan]

Not sure how long that would last before the rules change and there would be no cover if you hadn't paid your levy.

which totally undermines the scheme (even further) as its about accident compensation for everybody, if bikers get refused care for not paying, do cyclists as well? they are injured at the same place, they don't pay anything, why could one get compensation and not the other. I think a more likely scenario is huge fines for no rego. However I feel we are close approaching the point of mass civil disobedience, they haven't listened to reason, we wont back down, what other options will we have?

[Subike]

Pervention and education
Are these not the two objectives that ACC would get on board with if there was a medium to bring this directly to riders?
In a way that they would accept as not being in contradtction to their right to personal choice?
What if?
Instead of discussing the pros and cons of all the aspects of rider saftey, skill, cost factors, statistics and injury prevention..
Could we be more pro active and collectivly produce a quality teaching aid for All riders that the ACC could fund, Goverment support and the TSL could distribute.
A simple interactive DVD
Issued to new riders upon applying for their learners
Posted to licenced riders with thier registration renewal forms.
DVD?

Reduce the accedent rate first, levies next!
There are thousands of hours of vidios and discusions on the web showing...
how to ride a bike safley and dangerously, footage of dangerous riding, and safe riding i.
how to reconise road dangers , such as pea shingle, tar snakes, and footage of what damage they can cause.
how to avoid accidents and what dose happen, not what might happen, footage of simple error accedents?
what protective gear is recomended to wear
Vidio footage of acual accedents showing injury caused by not wearing any saftey gear, some saftey gear, full saftey gear..
how to load you bike for touring, what over loading, unbalanced loads, can do on the road.
how to do basic maintenance , and show how a deflated tyre or loose chain can cause injury
who to contact for advanced training in NZ
where and how to make a claim when and if an incident happens.

I dont think it takes much to inmagine how this could be put togeather, if I, an uneducated can conceive the idea.

It would be designed as a tool for education for all, including those who have little understanding of the art of "riding to survive"
especially those who make the rules.

If such a DVD was to come from a Govt source, it would most likley be ignored and would be one sided.
If it was produced and presented as coming from fellow riders,
Then I am sure that it would reach a high percentage of riders who may never otherwise think about these things.
The information can be ignored or taken up, at the choice of the viewer.
It could be made as a serries inside the DVD, which could be used by television as a mini serries.
It could be used by so many as an education tool.

AND


If it came from us, was accepted, used, distibuted.
THEN WE ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE.

instead of just talking.

[FatHead]

Had a bit of a brain wave while I was stopped behind a truck and a large SUV that wouldn't allow enough room for me to filter through. :angry: I wondered if the next target of ACC on our roads would be the large SUV's drivn by Soccer mums and the like. From what I have read previously they are less than terrific when it comes to road statistics and although since I read that info they have no doubt become more agile on the road as soon as you get one of those hitting your average corolla size shopping cart even at 50kph there is going to be one side that comes off better.

My point being maybe we should do as our adversary is doing and divide and conka, target any new efforts on the "Your Next" front at our 4WD/AWD fleet. I dont see that any of them is going to want to spend more on rego just because they choose to drive a vehicle that protects them and theirs but causes serious grief to the majority of the rest of the fleet when there is an incident. :yes: And yes I did think about ANCAP crash test type ratings ut they are harder to recognise than SUV's if we are going to apply window flyers. :nya:

[CrAzYMoFo]

Theres always ONE aye MSTRS?
bloody rasim fasim baldy Birds.
LOL too true mate, it is the "sliding" scale .
I've lamented the lack of gear worn by many only to be told that they're big boys(and girls) an if they wanna play without protective gear they will.
If there was one thing wrong with ACC as it stood, it's the complete absence of blame with regards to prevention of injury on the part of the victims and protagonists.
In other words if you wore all the gear and got hurt, no worries.
Didn't have protective trou lost a leg, OK, well um,l cover for all other injuries sustained but not for the leg.WHY, simple, encourage the rider to wear the right type of clothing.
Yes, I know, with or without protective gear some are going to be so badly hurt that it won't matter.
What matters , IS that they made an effort to prevent! In which case they are covered completely.
Might be hard initially to ascertain if gear of any sort was used, but once a way is found to determine that, it should only be a matter of, yes protective gear was in use, claim OK'd, no it wasn't claim paid on injuries prevented by use of gear but not where it was not in use.
This is a touchy subject, but what is upsetting me is the number of people who think it is a right to travel on our roads unprotected and be looked after, without lifting a finger to help themsleves first.
It's not just us motorcyclists, take a look at the dumbarses riding pushbikes wearing LYCRA suits, um they stop what happening to the wearer?
Car drivers, no seat belts!
The list goes on.


problem with this approach is that if u take this way bikes are more "risky" than cars so u are putting yourself at more risk by riding one

and then theres the difference between cars as well .... if ur in a old " clanker " or a cheep modern car that dose not have the maximum safety rating then you are putting yourself at risk too

fact is you can always be safer .... you could go live in a bubble in a park somewhere as most accidents occur at home..... or you could just shoot yourself here and now and then nothing can injure you

ya cant draw a line in the sand and say this is a reasonable amount of protection cause who knows where the hell to draw it



and for the record i wear full leathers

[caseye]

I agree, drawing a line in the sand is difficult at the best of times.
Sooner or later though someone is going to do it. Regardless of their qualification or experience to do so.
If it's not one of us or "ALL" of us pushing it, then for sure it's going to be a total balls up.
My "suggestion" was just that, it's provoked some debate and some antagonisim, I'm not worried about the antagonists, they'll still be sitting on thier hands, saying "it can't be done that way" while SOMEONE makes the decisions (right or wrong) to do something about the appalling rate of single motorcycle accidents in which the rider/s were seriously hurt, as much by the fact of the accident happening at all as by the amount of protective gear they may or may not have been wearing at the time.
I would rather be thrashing out some sort of proactive, encouraging system of positive ( yes that means automatically that theres a negative aspect) accident prevention than simply bemoaning the facts as they stand right now.
Motorcyclists v road = road wins HEAVILY if the rider/s are wearing none or minimal protective gear.
" " " " " " " = road wins but not by nearly as much, if the rider/s are wearing all or as much safety gear as they can.

for the record, I wear a good quality (yes price was a factor) leather jacket ,leather Q moto full SP (ouch, but oh so comfy) gloves. I now use a bell full face helmet,either rhino jeans or full leather trou depending on how far I'm going, traffic and road conditions.
I also cary a pretty comprehensive first aid kit, a not bad array of tools, 2 hi vis vests, wet weather trou and a couple of balaclava's/head warmers as a matter of course.Oh and the tyre repair kit.

[Fatt Max]

I am battling ASB /AIG with regards to their policy of protective clothing being grouped with normal clothing. I have asked them twice now to give me the policy definitions of 'clothing' and so far they have declined. They also back tracked when I suggested that their policy penalises people who take responsibility for their own safety and in addition, supports bikers wearing sub standard or cheap gear because they deppreciate protective clothing......apart from crash helmets that is. When I said that they are ok with saving a responsible biker from a head injury but not from broken arms, shoulders etc etc, the phone went very quiet.

Anyway, ongoing battle with a bastard corporate scumbag and I'm loving it.

I am now starting to get some perspective about my accident on 10th May 2010. I have had conversations with the police, medical people, witnesses etc. When I hit the car (and I was travelling at 40km/hr, just for the record) I was thrown 8ft into the air (as per the witness statements) abd landed on my right shoulder smack on the road. The armour in my IXON jacket shattered on impact and saved me, as did the elbow, forearm and backplate armour. After rolling for about 5 metres, I then skidded on my head for another 5 or so. My lid stayed on because I had one with a good quality clasp and of the correct fit. I was also lucky that my bike pants took the brunt of the skate resulting in a small 20mm rip in my jeans.

I am fucking lucky that I got away with the injuries I got away with. I attrinute my luck to the gear I was wearing which saved me from much, much worse. I was doing 40km / hr. Tonight, as I was driving home along greasy roads after todays rain, I was passed by at least 3 scooters with riders wearing business suits, a chick in a skirt and some crazy dude in shorts.

My point here I suppose is that wearing the gear saves injuries and lives. There is no excuse not to wear it unless you want to injure yourself or worse. I am right behind the 'gear up' message if that is what we are saying.

Of course, all the gear doesnt matter diddly if you ride like a dick, and that is the other side of the coin. It is a long hard road to educate the masses but it's as much relevant and important as kicking the ACC levies up the arse. We have to look after oursleves kiddy winks.

Bottom line is, for me, that I have met and grown to like and respect so many people through KB, I dont want to be without any of them.....and I fucking mean that my lovelies.....

[caseye]

What Mark just said!
Two sides to every coin.
Dick heads don't just ride bikes, some of em pilot scooters, pushbikes, cars and trucks.
We should be involved in our own destiny.
We need to do it before the gubbermint do.
LUCK With the ASB my bruver.

[Corse1]

Sure the fees have gone up and after reading the "Casual Factors in Multiple Vehicle Accidents involving Motorcycles: An Analysis of New Zealand 2008 Accident Data" document, the ACC and Government have screwed us big time.......but I am more interested in the injustice for people who own more than one bike. Surely you can only ride one at a time so why pay double ACC fees compared to single bike owners? There is no greater risk.
In Melbourne they can claim that compnent of the rego back if owning more than one bike. The liklihood of reducing fees is extremely remote now that they have passed and put into law.

[Conquiztador]

Sure the fees have gone up and after reading the "Casual Factors in Multiple Vehicle Accidents involving Motorcycles: An Analysis of New Zealand 2008 Accident Data" document, the ACC and Government have screwed us big time.......but I am more interested in the injustice for people who own more than one bike. Surely you can only ride one at a time so why pay double ACC fees compared to single bike owners? There is no greater risk.
In Melbourne they can claim that compnent of the rego back if owning more than one bike. The liklihood of reducing fees is extremely remote now that they have passed and put into law.

Nothing more to see here. Too late. Life goes on and we get on with paying the bills.

[DEVVIL]

Nothing more to see here. Too late. Life goes on and we get on with paying the bills.

Not if MAG has anything to do with it mate.:Oi:

[NONONO]

ATGATT, another freedom lost!

[DEVVIL]

ATGATT, another freedom lost!
Dont let nana state see you posting that F word.:shutup:

[cheshirecat]

More people like this needed

ES (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23894808-outraged-resident-bags-a-couple-of-parking-cctv-spy-cars.do)

[mashman]

gonna need bigger bag for this bad boy (http://www.driving-news.co.uk/driving-legislation/new-super-asset-speed-cameras/)