Learner's curfew - does anybody know why? [Archive]

rvross

18th February 2010, 16:08

HI guys, I'm new in the forum and a new Biker, I got my Ls, and there's something that I can'i understand, no even the people from NZTA was capable to give me a good explanation about why as a learner or with a restricted Licence u can't drive after 10 pm??????
It's something that really bother me because I finish working after 10 pm, when no one is on the streets, and I can not ride at this time, which doesn't make sense at all to me because if as a learner u can drive during the day when the streets are full of cars, bikes, pedestrians, dogs, birds, etc. why not after 10 pm.???
Does some one knows why??

cheshirecat

18th February 2010, 16:24

Have theories but I wouldn't be surprised if you could get an exemption because of work requirements. Oh, welcome to the forum and to bikes

Jonno.

18th February 2010, 16:29

It's because most 15 year olds go to school and should be tired/sleeping 10 pm - 6am.

I think you're quite unlikely to get an exemption for this though.

Ixion

18th February 2010, 16:29

Cos the cabinet minister who was responsible for the legislation popped by to see his old Mum , takling the draft with him. Mum decided to ahve a look through it, and , as Mum's will, ahd decided ideas about when the children should get home at night. So, she made a couple of slight amendments Which passed unnoticed into law.

That was also the source of the ban on pillions. Mum apparently went out with a biker when she was herself a girl.

MSTRS

18th February 2010, 16:32

That was also the source of the ban on pillions. Mum apparently went out with a biker when she was herself a girl.

Which lead to the cabinet minister's 'arrival'. She didn't want anymore (of the) bastards out there...

kwaka_crasher

18th February 2010, 16:56

Does some one knows why??

Perhaps the same reason overdimension permits are difficult to get around Xmas & New Years... drunks on the road... it's too much hassle to catch them so they target the otherwise law obiding citizen who just forgot his watch and has a job so can afford to pay...

Leseid

18th February 2010, 17:03

The fine for riding out side your licence conditions is only $100 (or so I last was informed). I get the feeling most police officers would let you get off if your out by an hour ether side (Just not worth the paperwork, until they introduce a quoter system for that type of offence).

The much larger thing to worry about is your insurance contract, riding outside your licence terms will void your cover. So wipe out anther motorcyclist on a expensive Ducati after 10 and before 5 and your at fault, your going to be up for some serous repercussions.

Because there is less traffic on the roads after 10, there's also going to be less people around to help you if you do have a serious learning experience.

If you do: ride well with in your limits, resists the temptation to race anyone or explore your riding capability. Is a very good idea not to drink any alcohol, this will allow you to retain your wit which you will need.

Get as much riding time during the conditions of your licence, ride in all weather so you gain experience in poor weather encase you get caught out one night.

Good luck.

kwaka_crasher

18th February 2010, 17:19

The fine for riding out side your licence conditions is only $100 (or so I last was informed).

And 25 demerit points...

The much larger thing to worry about is your insurance contract, riding outside your licence terms will void your cover. So wipe out anther motorcyclist on a expensive Ducati after 10 and before 5 and your at fault, your going to be up for some serous repercussions.

Not neccessarily (here we go again!). To decline cover the reason it must be material. The difference between 9:30pm and 10:30pm with regard to a crash would be very difficult to see as material to the event... just as no current evidence of inspection or not up to WoF standard or no current vehicle license would not be sufficient grounds unless there was a specific defect that was a contributing factor to the crash...

Mom

18th February 2010, 17:32

Wot Ixion said. It is a stupid condition that you can obtain an exemption for if you can prove you are working etc. Welcome to KB too btw. Make sure you do a Defensive Driving Course so you can advance to a Full as soon as possible.

The Everlasting

18th February 2010, 17:35

Welcome to KB.

Yeah I can see your point,the law seems stupid,it's much harder to ride in peak hour traffic then after 10.

Diavolessa

18th February 2010, 17:48

The fine for riding out side your licence conditions is only $100 (or so I last was informed).

Unfortunately, the infringement fee is $400 for riding outside licence conditions

Mully

18th February 2010, 17:58

Unfortunately, the infringement fee is $400 for riding outside licence conditions

I thought they'd changed it recently - added demerits and dropped the fine.

Hang about - I'll see if I can find it.

JimO

18th February 2010, 18:19

I thought they'd changed it recently - added demerits and dropped the fine.

Hang about - I'll see if I can find it.

i cant hold on much longer

JimO

18th February 2010, 18:19

I thought they'd changed it recently - added demerits and dropped the fine.

Hang about - I'll see if I can find it.

i cant hold on much longer

Diavolessa

18th February 2010, 18:25

I thought they'd changed it recently - added demerits and dropped the fine.

Hang about - I'll see if I can find it.

You are indeed correct

It was in the Land Transport Amendment Act Dec 09............... :Oops:

Failure to display L plates results in in 25 demerit points and a fine of $100.

Breaching learner conditions (other than failing to display L plates) results in 35 demerit points and a fine of $100.
Breaching any other conditions you could receive 25 demerit points and a fine of $400.

rvross

18th February 2010, 18:35

Thanks guys, now I know I'm not the only one thinking about it.
I feel very welcome

Swoop

18th February 2010, 18:40

Does some one knows why??
Simply because suzukis' turn back into the pumpkins they were created from at that time.

rvross

18th February 2010, 18:55

jajaj, god to know it, I have to be careful with my pumpkin.jajaj

Leseid

18th February 2010, 19:00

Going back to the original question, it is actually a good question.
Statistics prove your more likely to have an accident between the hours of 10pm to 5am. But these statistics could be for all motor vehicles and not specific to motorcycles.

I guess the other way to look at it is, driving or riding when traffic conditions are light might seem the ideal way to learn the basics of your vehicle. You can still do this well before 10 each night, traffic in Wellington city drops off after 7pm.
There's the old saying though, "train hard and race easy". Your probably going to learn way faster riding in heavy traffic and develop much better skills than only riding in light traffic.

Still would be good to hear the official response, say from someone who works for LTSA (if your reading this).

kwaka_crasher

18th February 2010, 19:32

Unfortunately, the infringement fee is $400 for riding outside licence conditions

No. $100 and 25 demerit points. It changed late last year at the same time as the cellphone ban and many other things.

See here (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0099/latest/DLM280158.html) for the infringement fee (see "Drives between hours of 10 pm and 5 am) and here (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0099/latest/DLM280512.html) for the demerits (see "Drives motor vehicle contrary to the conditions of his or her driver licence (other than conditions relating to display of L plate)...)

red mermaid

18th February 2010, 19:34

So if its such a stupid condition and was set by such a stupid method, which incidentally is totally incorrect, what have motorcycle organisations such as BRONZ done about trying to get it changed?

I would suggest absolutely squat, nil, nothing, except make pathetic comments in a vain attempt to gain some sort of street cred.

Cos the cabinet minister who was responsible for the legislation popped by to see his old Mum , takling the draft with him. Mum decided to ahve a look through it, and , as Mum's will, ahd decided ideas about when the children should get home at night. So, she made a couple of slight amendments Which passed unnoticed into law.

That was also the source of the ban on pillions. Mum apparently went out with a biker when she was herself a girl.

Wot Ixion said. It is a stupid condition that you can obtain an exemption for if you can prove you are working etc. Welcome to KB too btw. Make sure you do a Defensive Driving Course so you can advance to a Full as soon as possible.

You are indeed correct

It was in the Land Transport Amendment Act Dec 09............... :Oops:

Failure to display L plates results in in 25 demerit points and a fine of $100.

Breaching learner conditions (other than failing to display L plates) results in 35 demerit points and a fine of $100.
Breaching any other conditions you could receive 25 demerit points and a fine of $400.

Slyer

18th February 2010, 19:42

Spearfish

18th February 2010, 20:58

I'm on a 6L as well and often on the roads well after 11 so, for just over a year I have been riding a moped from central Auck to west.
The faulty theory I had at the time was that a class 6 wasn't any use because of curfew.
I can see a point if the learner has had no experience at all in any other class of vehicle and is under say 25 but if your crossing over from 30 years of driving I cant see the point of the 10pm cut-off.
I can see the point of the 70 kph speed restriction for six montha while learning the craft though .
Personally in my case a larger physical presence on the road could add to my safety but maybe it could take some away as well.

Mully

18th February 2010, 21:03

i cant hold on much longer

Yeah, I didn't find it.
Cos I didn't look
And then I forgot and had dinner.

Sorry. But....

You are indeed correct

there's your answer. Bush Lawyers, FTW.

Simply because suzukis' turn back into the pumpkins they were created from at that time.

And you, sir, can shut your pie hole.
Damn Honda riders......

Mikkel

18th February 2010, 21:20

Why?

Simple: because the law was made for teenagers by people who, most likely, didn't give a shit about the details - they just knew that "there has to be rules".

I've said often enough before that the curfew is ridiculous, especially when applied to grown-ups who hold a full endorsement for any other vehicle class. By what logic is it ok to drive a 4 tonne 4x4 with wooden brakes at 10:30pm, but not a motorised bicycle? :weird:

breakaway

18th February 2010, 22:55

Just for revenue gathering. FTP. Don't stop I say.

Toaster

18th February 2010, 23:06

I think you're quite unlikely to get an exemption for this though.

An exemption can be given if you can provide evidence that the restriction adversly affects you for certain things like employment.

I got one for work because it was my only method of transport and I worked shift work and had shifts that either started or finished within that time restriction.

Ixion

19th February 2010, 00:20

An exemption for curfew used to be real easy to get, one of the easiest exemptions. Then , as usual, plonkers started in getting exemptions without any real justification, spinning a load of bollocks. Ltsa as was weren't totally stupid and realized what was going on, and toughened it up. As usual the ubusers stuffed it up for the genuine people. Now it's quite hard but it can be done. You'll need a letter from your boss saying that you have no other transport, buses and taxis do not exist in your space time continuum and you'll lose your job if you don't get the exemption which will mean your aged granny and your six little children and four fluffy pink kittens will all starve to death. Most bosses will be good for this . Hopefully they hate the Man too. If not get a better boss.

Oh and it's a real hassle , yes , but it's all worth it when you see the look of frustrated fury on the cops face when you produce the exemption letter !

They do so hate it when real people use the system against them

marty

19th February 2010, 07:19

Just for revenue gathering. FTP. Don't stop I say.

Yet funnily enough, at about 10pm last night i was coming through some road works at about 70km/h (30k limit posted) then didn't stop at the compulsory stop at the end of them, where the road goes over a railway track. A cop car was sitting at the stop sign waiting coming the other way. He flicked his light bar on, I stopped, he sat there for 30 seconds, then drove off. If I kept going, I gaurantee I would have been either walking, or about $800 poorer

The Everlasting

19th February 2010, 07:23

From the above posts it sounds like getting an exemption would be really hard,so just ride after 10 if you have too,and hope you don't come across any cops. Most of them will have retired with their donuts and hot chocolate at that time anyways.

Cayman911

19th February 2010, 08:09

i used to drive on my learners and restricted for years, after 10/11pm, cause thats when my work used to finish. no one stopped me.
i mean there shouldnt be a reason to stop you. unless you are going through somewhere with checkpoints or you are hooning around like a maniac between lanes as. or you have a huge L plate :P.

i guess they would be more cautious of bikes, but even that, havnt been stopped so far. dont give them a reason to. and they wont. if you know the route you take is swarmed with cops. take a different route.
anyways, exemption, all i know is that my mate got it real easy, just needed some letter from his boss confirming that his work finished at so and so hours. most probably taken advantage of and changed, as the gentleman above mentioned.

Ratti

19th February 2010, 08:40

My oldest son has the same restrictions on his car licence.
Is it linked to the 'learner' part of your title rather than the class of licence.
Sorry, its been so long since I had to do this that Im out of touch with the requirements. I suspect its to give the police a valid reason to get young silly troublemakers off the road and the rest of us safe.
Does seems stupid tho to not have exemption clauses for age/experience/work

MSTRS

19th February 2010, 08:49

Yet funnily enough, at about 10pm last night i was coming through some road works at about 70km/h (30k limit posted) then didn't stop at the compulsory stop at the end of them, where the road goes over a railway track. A cop car was sitting at the stop sign waiting coming the other way. He flicked his light bar on, I stopped, he sat there for 30 seconds, then drove off. If I kept going, I gaurantee I would have been either walking, or about $800 poorer

The secret 'in the Job' wave helped though, didn't it?:killingme

Patrick

22nd February 2010, 13:18

No. $100 and 25 demerit points. It changed late last year at the same time as the cellphone ban and many other things.

See here (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0099/latest/DLM280158.html) for the infringement fee (see "Drives between hours of 10 pm and 5 am) and here (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0099/latest/DLM280512.html) for the demerits (see "Drives motor vehicle contrary to the conditions of his or her driver licence (other than conditions relating to display of L plate)...)

You're wrong. $100 fine and 35 demerits for Learner and Restricted breaches, except things like not wearing your glasses or driving a manual instead of an auto.... Re-read what you linked it to re the demerits... Clue - its in blue.....

Just for revenue gathering. FTP. Don't stop I say.

Worth a death sentence? Okay then................ good luck with that...........

Mully

22nd February 2010, 15:52

Worth a death sentence? Okay then................ good luck with that...........

It was a roaring success for the bloke in Picton..... Oh, hang on.

R6_kid

22nd February 2010, 16:32

kwaka_crasher

23rd February 2010, 23:46

You're wrong. $100 fine and 35 demerits for Learner and Restricted breaches, except things like not wearing your glasses or driving a manual instead of an auto.... Re-read what you linked it to re the demerits... Clue - its in blue.....

Right you are - at least half right. 35 demerits also applies to driving a manual when your 1R conditions state you are only permitted to drive an automatic - see Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Rule 1999 Section 57 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0100/latest/DLM281566.html#DLM281566) referred to in Land Transport (Offences and Penalties) Regulations 1999 Schedule 2 1A (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0099/latest/DLM280512.html). Clue... it's in blue... :bleh:

Patrick

2nd March 2010, 12:16

Right you are - at least half right. 35 demerits also applies to driving a manual when your 1R conditions state you are only permitted to drive an automatic - see Land Transport (Driver Licensing) Rule 1999 Section 57 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0100/latest/DLM281566.html#DLM281566) referred to in Land Transport (Offences and Penalties) Regulations 1999 Schedule 2 1A (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1999/0099/latest/DLM280512.html). Clue... it's in blue... :bleh:

""Except things like...." is a sample. Of course there are more. You were claiming 25 demerits. Just a fix up, was all.....

EJK

2nd March 2010, 18:09

IF you get a ticket, take it to your boss.

They will take care of it. Thats what my prev boss did.

Patrick

12th March 2010, 12:52

Or take it to WINZ. They "fix it up" for ya too....

kwaka_crasher

12th March 2010, 13:46

""Except things like...." is a sample. Of course there are more. You were claiming 25 demerits. Just a fix up, was all....."35 demerits for Learner and Restricted breaches, except things like not wearing your glasses or driving a manual instead of an auto" seems like a pretty specific example to me. It's 35 demerits for driving a manual when you should be driving an auto.

Just a fix up to your fix up was all. :bleh:

Patrick

12th March 2010, 15:02

"35 demerits for Learner and Restricted breaches, except things like not wearing your glasses or driving a manual instead of an auto" seems like a pretty specific example to me. It's 35 demerits for driving a manual when you should be driving an auto.

Just a fix up to your fix up was all. :bleh:

They are all "specific" examples, but examples all the same. What about "driving without a supervisor," or "driving without inner rear facing mirrors ( for deaf drivers)," or... hang on.... forget it....