NZ a country without alcohol soon? Nooooooo

[markh14]

Wow i can't believe what i just read. Wellington city councillors want a City-wide Alcohol ban:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/local/3342472/Council-to-vote-for-Wellington-wide-booze-ban

No more picnics in parks with alcohol and alcohol on beaches. I hope this does not become law because i will miss alcohol in public when i'm in wellington. Police:

he accepted that even people drinking responsibly in public places, such as at picnics in parks, on beaches and in the green belt, would now be acting unlawfully

Are the councils and government doing these things to try and ban Alcohol one day?
I hope they're not. I think because the Police can't keep up with the crime because they don't have enough resources, that's why they want the ban. If the police don't have enough resources i think that would mean either lack of people joining the cops or recruitment people are not doing their job good enough.

Innocent people should not be punished because of lack of resources.

I am hopeing someone will start a petition to the Wellington city council and tell them not to impose a city-wide alcohol ban, by using their own website here:

http://www.wellington.govt.nz/haveyoursay/e-petitions/index.php

I can't create the petition because i'm not from wellington, so if someone else created it that would be great. Good on Wellington city council for having a petition feature on their website ! lol

By the way, if you are from Christchurch like me and you don't like the proposed "Cruising" bylaw you can now have your say here:

http://www1.ccc.govt.nz/haveyoursay/ConsultationView.aspx?ConsultId=687

I told them I don't want the bylaw because there are already laws to stop boy racers from speeding and racing and so on. Banning cruising is taking away fun from innocent people. Cruisers are rate payers too. The road is not just for people who want to drive to/from work.

[JimO]

punish the many because of the sins of the few its the kiwi way

[Mikkel]

Well, the best way for the law to shoot itself in the foot is to instate laws that it neither can nor want to enforce. Idiocy like that is what makes anarchy seem palatable to some...

[Milts]

punish the many because of the sins of the few its the western way

FYP.
I seriuosly doubt this will be passed. And if it does, I wouldn't be surprised if some cops overlooked obviously low-risk groups/people drinking on the beach. At the Botanical Gardens during the January music series the cops regularly walked past families/small groups of quiet people who were openly drinking wine and beer. Some of them really do use discretion, and that number would probably increase in the unlikely event of this becoming law.

[Ixion]

A legal system which relies on the police "overlooking" people who are actually breaching the law but who the police think are gemutliche is a legal system that is in no degree at all separated from the third reich. Ask youself - " these people are drinking , but they look OK " . How is that differentiated from " these peole don't _look_ jewish " ?

[Trudes]

TBH I don't think it' such a bad thing. Public drunkeness is a big problem in Wellington, you only need to wander down Courtney place on a Saturday night (well, most nights) to see some strange and ugly sights, and try having an accident or emergency after 9pm, you wait forever at A&E because of all the pissed fools who have fallen over with bottle in hand etc. I know it's 'ruining everyone's fun', but why do you need to walk about with a beer in your hand? NZ has a drinking culture that isn't pretty or constructive..... and if it gets the bums out of the central city drinking, pissing and shitting on the streets then I'm all for it.

[mister.koz]

TBH I don't think it' such a bad thing. Public drunkeness is a big problem in Wellington, you only need to wander down Courtney place on a Saturday night (well, most nights) to see some strange and ugly sights, and try having an accident or emergency after 9pm, you wait forever at A&E because of all the pissed fools who have fallen over with bottle in hand etc. I know it's 'ruining everyone's fun', but why do you need to walk about with a beer in your hand? NZ has a drinking culture that isn't pretty or constructive..... and if it gets the bums out of the central city drinking, pissing and shitting on the streets then I'm all for it.

I'd have to agree... NZ's drinking culture is out of control... you should see hamilton at 2am (sober), its nothing short of completely pathetic.

[davereid]

A legal system which relies on the police "overlooking" people who are actually breaching the law but whom the police think are gemutliche is a legal syst that is inno degree at all searated from the third reich. Ask youself - " these peole are drinking , but they look OK " . how is that differentiated from " these peole don't _look_ jewish " ?

It also gives police powere of search and siezure that Hilter would have been proud of. Police can search you or your car, on a whim, just for being in the alcohol free zone. Which of course is all of Wellington.

[mister.koz]

It also gives police powere of search and siezure that Hilter would have been proud of. Police can search you or your car, on a whim, just for being in the alcohol free zone. Which of course is all of Wellington.

I see how thats a bit of a concern but realistically who cares? If you don't have anything illegal in your car then why would it be a bother. If the cops suspect you of having class A drugs in your car then they can search it, if they find anything else while searching then they can punish you for it.

The only thing this changes is that they would be able to search your car if they thought people were drinking (or had open bottles) in the car.

[freedom-wedge]

Well, the best way for the law to shoot itself in the foot is to instate laws that it neither can nor want to enforce. Idiocy like that is what makes anarchy seem palatable to some...

grins, a wise observation

pedro

[Genestho]

NZ's Drinking Culture has been estimated between 1 and 4 Billion in costs, most of the Burden being Injuries.

Estimation taken from the consultation paper (http://www.ndp.govt.nz/moh.nsf/pagescm/7504/$File/naap-consultation.pdf)on the National Alcohol Plan released in August 08.
Interesting Background info and Rationales for what we are starting to see implemented

Also, emergency rooms in the main centres are swamped with drunks, which waste valuable resources and time...

Alcohol related trauma is the leading cause of death in the under 25 bracket.
The harm caused by alcohol across the community is overwhelming. And the aim of the NAAP is to reduce tolerance and harm.

[freedom-wedge]

I see how thats a bit of a concern but realistically who cares? If you don't have anything illegal in your car then why would it be a bother. If the cops suspect you of having class A drugs in your car then they can search it, if they find anything else while searching then they can punish you for it.

The only thing this changes is that they would be able to search your car if they thought people were drinking (or had open bottles) in the car.

the people being detained and searched will care, theres a big difference between class a drugs and a can of tui, I see theres a problem and I,m behind getting it sorted but these sort of solutions can be, using the powers already in place. Nothing good will come of empowerment when the entity has sole digression to use or not to use that legislation, even your good self might react to being stopped and asked if they can search your car for alcohol, you might react negatively to a particular line of questioning on the side of the road, the situation becomes enflamed and then there are many scenarios that might be played out. Its all hypathetical I know but people need to think about implications of actions and reaction.

pedro

[The Everlasting]

Doesn't auckland already have a 24hour alcohol ban?

I guess it's Wellington's turn.

[freedom-wedge]

A legal system which relies on the police "overlooking" people who are actually breaching the law but whom the police think are gemutliche is a legal syst that is inno degree at all searated from the third reich. Ask youself - " these peole are drinking , but they look OK " . how is that differentiated from " these peole don't _look_ jewish " ?

I think someone just switched on the light,

[mister.koz]

NZ's Drinking Culture has been estimated between 1 and 4 Billion in costs, most of the Burden being Injuries.

Chuck the ACC levy on booze, its perfect :D

[mister.koz]

the people being detained and searched will care, theres a big difference between class a drugs and a can of tui, I see theres a problem and I,m behind getting it sorted but these sort of solutions can be, using the powers already in place. Nothing good will come of empowerment when the entity has sole digression to use or not to use that legislation, even your good self might react to being stopped and asked if they can search your car for alcohol, you might react negatively to a particular line of questioning on the side of the road, the situation becomes enflamed and then there are many scenarios that might be played out. Its all hypathetical I know but people need to think about implications of actions and reaction.

pedro

Good point, I guess am just over the drinking culture and the tollerance of it which, sustains the culture itself. Many defend their actions by asking for liberty when their very actions inhibit other's liberty.

[Mully]

Meh - ban it.

I'll make my fortune in bootlegging.

[The Everlasting]

Meh - ban it.

I'll make my fortune in bootlegging.

Hahaha,you got some Moonshine? Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaa!!

[davereid]

I see how thats a bit of a concern but realistically who cares? If you don't have anything illegal in your car then why would it be a bother.

Generally, the only people who say this have already said "It wont affect me", so they are relaxed about (someone else) losing a few "minor" rights.

Why don't we extend this concept to your home ? I mean, if you don't have anything illegal why would it be a bother. ?

My postman comes here every day, and spends 15-20 seconds at my gate.
Thats almost 1.5 hours a year.

Why dont we just hire one or two "Random Searchers" for each postman we have.
Every year, thats enough manpower to search your house, for 3 hours !.

We could check your building permits, car regos and wofs.
Take serial numbers of all your electronic equipment so we have a record if its gets stolen.
We could take a ghost of your computer, and install our external access software so we can watch you.
We would look for illegal guns, drugs, and unregistered dogs.

The world would be a better place, you would be safer, and only a criminal could have anything to fear. !

[Mully]

Hahaha,you got some Moonshine? Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaa!!

Zeke, fetch ma gun - we's a-going hunting for some city folk.

Just need to get myself an orange Charger with a Confederate flag on the roof.

[mister.koz]

...

The world would be a better place, you would be safer, and only a criminal could have anything to fear. !

All that bollochs is a very long way from stopping people getting pissed-up in public places.

Using that logic, why have breath testing at all, it is afterall encroaching on civil liberties, people should be allowed to drink when and where they want.

[rachprice]

There is already a central city liquor ban......so all the drunkards out on Courtenay Pl are still going to be there because they drink in the pubs!
I understand they are trying to ban it from places like Newtown where it is a huge problem, maybe they could just do a ban similar to the central city one, in the township.

It is going to affect those who are just having a quiet beer or wine with a BBQ or picnic!
The people that are causing the problems probably aren't likely to change anyway!!

Just on the alcohol causes injuries/A&E etc. people will still drink way to much whether its in public or their homes, I agree we need to change NZ's attitudes to our drinking culture but this isn't the way to do it!

[davereid]

Using that logic, why have breath testing at all, it is after all encroaching on civil liberties, people should be allowed to drink when and where they want.

Drink driving is a killer.
But most kiwis can sit in the park, with a bottle of summer ale and bacon-egg pie without killing.

[Genestho]

It's not the sole way to do it - no, but it is in conjunction with a myriad of other strategies, which are suggested in the NAAP.
How would you suggest reducing alcohol related harm, deaths and costs? More than one bullet will need to do it eh?

[freedom-wedge]

also a good point

pedro

[freedom-wedge]

Zeke, fetch ma gun - we's a-going hunting for some city folk.

Just need to get myself an orange Charger with a Confederate flag on the roof.

I remember one of the actual cars was sold on Trade me a while back, I think you missed your chance, plenty of stills on there though, even one with a free box of shotgun shells, and yeah I,m joking about the shells, ya all holla back ya hear

[davereid]

It's not the sole way to do it - no, but it is in conjunction with a myriad of other strategies, which are suggested in the NAAP.
How would you suggest reducing alcohol related harm, deaths and costs? More than one bullet will need to do it eh?

It will certainly reduce alcohol abuse in public places by the poor. Those with money will be safely pissed, 5 feet away in the garden bar.

The law appears to extend onto private property, so having a beer in the grassed area at work on a Friday will be out. (If its not, the poor will be able to go there as its privately owned.)

Everyone will enjoy the ability of the police to search their picnic basket in case there a can of tui in there.

The police already have the power to arrest troublesome drunks. I can't see that untroublesome drunks are trouble so bad we need to dump the bill of rights just yet.

[BoristheBiter]

It will certainly reduce alcohol abuse in public places by the poor. Those with money will be safely pissed, 5 feet away in the garden bar.

The law appears to extend onto private property, so having a beer in the grassed area at work on a Friday will be out. (If its not, the poor will be able to go there as its privately owned.)

Everyone will enjoy the ability of the police to search their picnic basket in case there a can of tui in there.

The police already have the power to arrest troublesome drunks. I can't see that untroublesome drunks are trouble so bad we need to dump the bill of rights just yet.

Calling all bush lawyers................Calling all bush laywers, start talk shit, start making shit up, talk more shit make more shit up and so on for 10 more pages.

The ban is drinking in a public place nothing else.
yes it will stop people drinking while having a picnic or a day at the beach. it will also stop them getting into cars/bikes and driving.
If you need to have a drink.................................oh i'm just not going to go there.

its about time this law came in all over NZ

[avgas]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Vodka Watermellon
Bring on the ban
Nothing like sneaking alcohol

[mister.koz]

There is already a central city liquor ban......so all the drunkards out on Courtenay Pl are still going to be there because they drink in the pubs!
I understand they are trying to ban it from places like Newtown where it is a huge problem, maybe they could just do a ban similar to the central city one, in the township.

It is going to affect those who are just having a quiet beer or wine with a BBQ or picnic!
The people that are causing the problems probably aren't likely to change anyway!!

Just on the alcohol causes injuries/A&E etc. people will still drink way to much whether its in public or their homes, I agree we need to change NZ's attitudes to our drinking culture but this isn't the way to do it!

Very good points :) how do you change that culture though, i understand that legislation wont fix much, its just paints a thin coat over the top and annoys people who aren't contributing to the problem.

Some would argue that if we aren't working towards solving the problem then we are responsible for it, i've never liked that idea because it puts blame on people who haven't done anything. I guess thats similar to putting a law that pastes everyone...

hmmm its a tricky subject really.


Drink driving is a killer.
But most kiwis can sit in the park, with a bottle of summer ale and bacon-egg pie without killing.

I was making a point that this isn't drastic, drink driving is a killer!

[SMOKEU]

The courts should take a harder line on drunk people starting shit and lock them up for a long time.

[Swoop]

... it will also stop them getting into cars/bikes and driving.
Just like what happens now?

This is simply another law just "to solve a problem" which does not work. As an example let us look at the liarbour law of micro-chipping all dogs so as to prevent dogs attacking people. Same concept (target everyone) because targeting the problem is "too difficult" in overly PC New Zealand.

The problem is with the drinking culture that this Banana Republic has.

[Mully]

Fuck, I'm confused now.

I need a drink.....

[Mully]

Calling all bush lawyers................Calling all bush laywers, start talk shit, start making shit up, talk more shit make more shit up and so on for 10 more pages.

Excuse me, can you not bandy the phrase "bush lawyers" about willy nilly.

We work hard for that title, and we don't want it cheapened by overuse.

[mister.koz]

Just like what happens now?

This is simply another law just "to solve a problem" which does not work. As an example let us look at the liarbour law of micro-chipping all dogs so as to prevent dogs attacking people. Same concept (target everyone) because targeting the problem is "too difficult" in overly PC New Zealand.

The problem is with the drinking culture that this Banana Republic has.

Its part of a host of other things going on though.

What would you suggest would improve the culture problem?

[BoristheBiter]

Just like what happens now?

This is simply another law just "to solve a problem" which does not work. As an example let us look at the liarbour law of micro-chipping all dogs so as to prevent dogs attacking people. Same concept (target everyone) because targeting the problem is "too difficult" in overly PC New Zealand.

The problem is with the drinking culture that this Banana Republic has.

Because the alternative is so much better. Stick head in sand and hope it goes away.
That the problem here, everyone is quick to say what they don't want, but no one will add suggestions on how to fix a problem.
The problem is we in NZ have a booze culture and as most seam to function quite well, there are a few who can't and the laws are put in place to stop them or be able to remove them, unfortunately these laws affect everyone else.
If when we were out and our mates start being complete f***wits because they are pissed we should step in and take them home but we think it’s a good laugh and because of this laws are put into place to be able to deal with it.
If you want to go back to the days of being able to have a few beers on the beach then it’s time we all stuck together and say that this is not acceptable and then it will change but because after 9 years of labour you can do what you want nothing will happen so these laws will stay in place.
Again we have a booze culture and god forbid you might have to go a day without a drink.

[BoristheBiter]

Excuse me, can you not bandy the phrase "bush lawyers" about willy nilly.

We work hard for that title, and we don't want it cheapened by overuse.

Sorry please carry on.

[Swoop]

What would you suggest would improve the culture problem?
NZ has culture???:scratch:

Oh! Drinking culture!:sweatdrop

I would suggest getting away from saturation selling to start with. Certain areas of the city have an abundance of small shops selling grog, which I guess the predominant sales would include alcopops.

But alcopops are not the problem. It's those fortified wine drinkers! Bloody sherry tipplers are the issue according to the last gubbinment...:bash:


... but because after 9 years of labour you can do what you want nothing will happen so these laws will stay in place.
Oddly enough, if they were in for another term, I would have expected the "procurement age" do be lowered again...

The culture begins at an earlier age. A couple of kids living behind my Mum's place are classic examples. Boy of 17 and his sister (16) with her 2yr old child. They are living with their mother who turns a blind eye when they want to have an all-night bender with their schoolmates. The quantity of times that the :Police: have been called to that address is quite large.

Prohibition does not work, we know that.
Overseas countries have differing approaches. I bet the police would have a few ideas on the issue...

[BoristheBiter]

NZ has culture???:scratch:

Oh! Drinking culture!:sweatdrop

I would suggest getting away from saturation selling to start with. Certain areas of the city have an abundance of small shops selling grog, which I guess the predominant sales would include alcopops.

But alcopops are not the problem. It's those fortified wine drinkers! Bloody sherry tipplers are the issue according to the last gubbinment...:bash:


Oddly enough, if they were in for another term, I would have expected the "procurement age" do be lowered again...

The culture begins at an earlier age. A couple of kids living behind my Mum's place are classic examples. Boy of 17 and his sister (16) with her 2yr old child. They are living with their mother who turns a blind eye when they want to have an all-night bender with their schoolmates. The quantity of times that the :Police: have been called to that address is quite large.

Prohibition does not work, we know that.
Overseas countries have differing approaches. I bet the police would have a few ideas on the issue...

we seem to be on the same page but on your prohibition part, thats the same as saying speeding tickets don't work so we should just be allowed to speed.
It only doesn't work for a few so they needs to be another form of punishment for them.
Also we need a legal drinking age not just able to buy age.

[mashman]

I'm happy to throw out ideas... it may not be feasible, in fact probably not, but what would you think of breathalising people to get a drink? or to get into a pub? over a certain amount of milligrams, you can't get in, or you're kicked out... not that it would, but it could encourage people to take responsibility for how much they're drinking... just an idea like!

[markh14]

NZ has culture???:scratch:

Oh! Drinking culture!:sweatdrop

I would suggest getting away from saturation selling to start with. Certain areas of the city have an abundance of small shops selling grog, which I guess the predominant sales would include alcopops.

But alcopops are not the problem. It's those fortified wine drinkers! Bloody sherry tipplers are the issue according to the last gubbinment...:bash:


Oddly enough, if they were in for another term, I would have expected the "procurement age" do be lowered again...

The culture begins at an earlier age. A couple of kids living behind my Mum's place are classic examples. Boy of 17 and his sister (16) with her 2yr old child. They are living with their mother who turns a blind eye when they want to have an all-night bender with their schoolmates. The quantity of times that the :Police: have been called to that address is quite large.

Prohibition does not work, we know that.
Overseas countries have differing approaches. I bet the police would have a few ideas on the issue...

And why are the police being called for people drinking with their schoolmates at their own house? What is illegal about that?

[markh14]

ok so no-one from wellington has started a petition for the wellington city council to not impose a city-wide alcohol ban yet. If you start one we can all sign it. Someone from welly start one here:

http://www.wellington.govt.nz/haveyoursay/e-petitions/ep/

[Swoop]

And why are the police being called for people drinking with their schoolmates at their own house? What is illegal about that?
I guess it might have something to do with the streetfighting, loud music throughout the night, cars arriving/departing doing burnouts, litter distribution, vomiting, public urination and throwing of bottles at traffic.
But I could be wrong.

[babey8]

looks like there is an official petition up that has already got 2 signatures in less than a day:

http://www.wellington.govt.nz/haveyoursay/e-petitions/ep/details/124

[scissorhands]

Portugal has recently decriminalized all drugs for users, dealers are still punished.

So, in Portugal you could roll up your sleeve and ping up some smack, at the concert in the park/ picnic, if you wanted.

I think the problem in NZ is education? Where??? is it? Or just for fun, are they trying to see how stupid they can get us?

And if not for fun, for what?

[CookMySock]

So, in Portugal you could roll up your sleeve and ping up some smack, at the concert in the park/ picnic, if you wanted.Not that it's common here. I know of a few people who acid-up at new years and wander around, but it's rare to see someone fucked up bad on something strong, at least around here anyway. Different story in the cities?


I think the problem in NZ is education? Where??? is it? Or just for fun, are they trying to see how stupid they can get us? And if not for fun, for what?Dunno about the education thing. The cool kiss of the rim of the toilet seat has never been fun. I think it's just a bravado thing. I got sick of feeling like shit, so I won't over-drink. Come to think of it, I got sick of spinning too, so I won't over-toke.

The same point was made in a recent tobacco-smoking thread - young people don't have much say in the matter - it's just how their balls etc are wired. You won't be able to do much about it.

I almost said "who cares anyway" but I guess I do care. It does affect many people, but I think there is a time for getting a little stupid - just as long as its done in a safe fashion, ie, off the streets and not in cars.

Steve

[fire eyes]

doesn't bother me really .. I don't drink alcohol .. and where the hell are the emoticon thingys :-(

[Mully]

and where the hell are the emoticon thingys :-(

you have to do an advanced post - not a quick reply.

[Skyryder]

A legal system which relies on the police "overlooking" people who are actually breaching the law but who the police think are gemutliche is a legal system that is in no degree at all separated from the third reich. Ask youself - " these people are drinking , but they look OK " . How is that differentiated from " these peole don't _look_ jewish " ?

You do ask some curley ones.


Skyryder

[2wheeldrifter]

Oh well looks like it's back to using Rohypnol !