Spelling these days...

[Edbear]

In recent threads there has been much posted about spelling and grammar. One poster said his teacher wasn't concerned whether he could read or write!

Language standards have continued to decline and we have now reached the stage where adults in positions of responsibility and in the public arena can't spell.

It's fine for the young one's who don't understand the implications to say, "Who cares?", however the ramifications for society are profound and long lasting. Communcation is the life-blood of society and effective communication is especially important in business. A business not able to communicate properly is going to suffer and fail and this is even more critical in the international arena where people expect to be presented with correct language, especially where our language is not their primary language.

Having a son-in-law who speaks four languages fluently and gets by in a couple more and who immigrated here from Germany, has impressed upon me the need to be accurate. His international business connections has lead to me dealing with overseas companies and has opened business opportunities for me here. We are now forming business aggreements with international and overseas companies and have begun importing product from Germany with more to come.

Were I not able to communicate accurately and effectively I would never be taken seriously and would never have the opportunities offered to me thus far. The company owners and managers I meet with need to be impressed, not only with dress and knowledge, but as importantly with clear, accurate and easily understood communication - language standards of the highest order.

As an employer, my son-in-law expects clear and accurate communication from his employees as mistakes and lack of clarity cost him time and money. He goes to great lengths to communicate efectively with staff so that they know what they need to do and he expects they will communicate clearly and effectively with customers. Many of his clients are of the "upper class", by that I mean well-off business people who expect the highest standards of workmanship and communication. Jobs he contracts for are at the high end of the market including multi-story commercial businesses in the city. As such the employees have nice shirts provided and are expected to be as clean and well dressed as the type of work allows, including shaved. If he empoyed a worker with a beard the worker would need to be well groomed, not scruffy.

The employees are often the "face" of the company and as such the company is judged by the conduct and speech of the employee. The reputation of the company can be severely damaged by poorly spoken, slovenly employees and there is only a set number of times a boss can repair damage before losing what may be a key client, costing the company a lot of money as word spreads about, or even from, the disgruntled customer.

It is not vanity to endeavour to speak and write correctly, nor is it of no consequence to refuse to learn how. It makes good sense in both a personal and business application as relationships are built or destroyed by the standard of communication. Effective language skills open up opportunities denied to those who cannot speak, read or write properly.

Rant over...

[Edbear]

PS. There are two typo's in the above...

[Virago]

...It's fine for the young one's...

Standards have slipped - but abuse of apostrophes is never acceptable.

[hayd3n]

Standards have slipped - but abuse of apostrophes is never acceptable.

lol :P

[Edbear]

Standards have slipped - but abuse of apostrophes is never acceptable.

I repent in dust and ashes. In this case you are correct, it should have read, "ones".

[JimO]

text spell will be a ever increasing problem, you only have to read some of the car advertisements on trade me to see that

[dipshit]

I repent in dust and ashes. In this case you are correct, it should have read, "ones".


Voice dictation never gets everything right.

[Hitcher]

PS. There are two typo's in the above...

And an unnecessary apostrophe in this one

[Edbear]

I seem to be having an apostrophe of an evening. I think I should retire for the night. My fingers and brain are somewhat disconnected.

[Toaster]

And an unnecessary apostrophe in this one

Correct. But you forgot to have your period!

[Edbear]

text spell will be a ever increasing problem, you only have to read some of the car advertisements on trade me to see that

There are very many "rear" cars for sale...

[Hitcher]

Correct. But you forgot to have your period!

Have you not heard of the menopause? Sheesh.

[Motu]

Spelling is bad for sure - but I think the gibberish coming out of businesses and education providers is even worse! At least those who can't spell can say what they mean....and most of us can understand what they are saying.The crap these educated people put out is completely undecipherable.

[Toaster]

I repent in dust and ashes. In this case you are correct, it should have read, "ones".

Shave your head and wear sack-cloth and then I will believe you. Without photos, it didn't happen!

[Naki Rat]

"You must spread rep....." the intention was there ;)

Very well worded post and unfortunately all too true. I have dealt with people who are from the so called 'professional' sector who showed written English skills that were comparable to a high school pupil. In many such cases I have subsequently gone elsewhere as I do not trust someone with communication skills of that level to effectively represent me in a professional capacity. The problem we all increasingly face is that levels of communication are failing so much across the population that the time is rapidly approaching where these literary knuckle draggers will be running the world we live in, and that frightens the crap out of me.

[Naki Rat]

Spelling is bad for sure - but I think the gibberish coming out of businesses and education providers is even worse! At least those who can't spell can say what they mean....and most of us can understand what they are saying.The crap these educated people put out is completely undecipherable.

Educated maybe, but not in terms of written or spoken English skills and that precisely is the problem....

[Edbear]

Shave your head and wear sack-cloth and then I will believe you. Without photos, it didn't happen!

Is a number 4 haircut acceptable?

[Indiana_Jones]

Spelling is for the toffs & Lords!

Working class muckers like us don't need that shit!

-Indy

[Toaster]

Is a number 4 haircut acceptable?

Be a modern man and go fully waxed.

[Edbear]

Educated maybe, but not in terms of written or spoken English skills and that precisely is the problem....

Yes. However it is often the case that education is severely limited for those lacking language skills and the education system, ie: schools and tertiary educators let their pupils down by not insisting on correct spelling and grammar and pass them regardless. Therefore we find "qualified" people entering the workforce and failing due to their inability to present themselves in manner that would be taken seriously.

[Edbear]

Be a modern man and go fully waxed.

What if I wax lyrical?

[Edbear]

Spelling is for the toffs & Lords!

Working class muckers like us don't need that shit!

-Indy

You betray your lordship by spelling correctly, young man...

[golfmade]

I'm amazed at how many expat English teachers in Taiwan are horrid spellers. To teach legally you at least need a university degree, so I wonder if they are working legally or not...

Not to mention I've met my fair share of expats who even I could barely understand what they were saying, come to find out they're from South Africa or Ireland or even north-east Canada.

[yungatart]

Surely a starting point would be to ensure our teachers can spell correctly!
The clangers I see degree holding teachers make, as they write on the board are unbelievable! Yes, even English teachers! Heaven help us, when those who are charged with making our young folk literate, can't even spell!
Of course, the card carrying member of the BDOTGNZA and lowly teacher aide corrects their errors for them.....

[sinfull]

BDOTGNZA .....
Wot ? 10 cactas

[The Everlasting]

I agree with your post Edbear,spelling is very important,and standards seem to have slipped in the last few years. I partly blame the texting language that has evolved over the last 10 years.

But even the best writers etc make mistakes sometimes.

[Edbear]

I'm amazed at how many expat English teachers in Taiwan are horrid spellers. To teach legally you at least need a university degree, so I wonder if they are working legally or not...

Not to mention I've met my fair share of expats who even I could barely understand what they were saying, come to find out they're from South Africa or Ireland or even north-east Canada.

Funnily enough, some of the best speakers of English I have ever met are South Africans and I personally find their accent quite pleasant. Blacks from Sudan I've met are very nicely spoken and extremely courteous, (not to mention being among the most attractive people I've seen too.)


Surely a starting point would be to ensure our teachers can spell correctly!
The clangers I see degree holding teachers make, as they write on the board are unbelievable! Yes, even English teachers! Heaven help us, when those who are charged with making our young folk literate, can't even spell!
Of course, the card carrying member of the BDOTGNZA and lowly teacher aide corrects their errors for them.....

I'm sure you do so with the greatest of respect, too... ;)


Wot ? 10 cactas

"Brave Defenders Of The Great New Zealand Arse", or so I'm told...


I agree with your post Edbear,spelling is very important,and standards seem to have slipped in the last few years. I partly blame the texting language that has evolved over the last 10 years.

But even the best writers etc make mistakes sometimes.

It's not only texting language, standards were on a downward spiral long before. In the '80's schools were encouraged to ease up on the spelling and grammar standards, even to encourage phonetic spelling! A teacher was told off if they disciplined a student for bad spelling, grammar or writing as it might discourage the student!

Yes, we all make mistakes, even those of us who take pride in accuracy and my own thread has highlighted my own errors, (which I put down to tiredness...:whistle:), however the educated are not overly pedantic in the main.

[MSTRS]

PS. There are two typo's in the above...


lasting. Communcation is the life-blood
including shaved. If he empoyed a worker with a beard
Without mentioning the surp...super...un-necessary apostrophes, there are a lot of punctuation errors, too.
Overall, an 8.5/10...

[MSTRS]

Wot ? 10 cactas




"Brave Defenders Of The Great New Zealand Arse", or so I'm told...



Yep. A bunch of unthanked, unloved afficianados of Kiwi English, particularly as it is spelled, dedicated to resisting the creeping cancer of naff Americanisms (it is arse, not ass) and poor, general levels of literacy.

[Clockwork]

I understand your opening post has been brought to the attention of AAAA

The Association for the Abolition of the Aberrant Apostrophe

[Edbear]

I understand your opening post has been brought to the attention of AAAA

The Association for the Abolition of the Aberrant Apostrophe

Should I join Apostrophes Anonymous..?

[Edbear]

Without mentioning the surp...super...un-necessary apostrophes, there are a lot of punctuation errors, too.
Overall, an 8.5/10...

Is that a pass...?

[crazyhorse]

With text phones, there will be fewer young people knowing how to spell. Even schools do not teach spelling like they did in the 'olden' days. Maths is now also done more with calculators and computers - stands to reason no body can spell, add or read :done:

[MSTRS]

Is that a pass...?

Under the system we went through...just.
Today it would be appended with 'merit'.

[Edbear]

With text phones, there will be fewer young people knowing how to spell. Even schools do not teach spelling like they did in the 'olden' days. Maths is now also done more with calculators and computers - stands to reason no body can spell, add or read :done:

Yup! I remember as though it were yesterday, standing and chanting the times tables and if we were caught not chanting them we had to sit down and write that table out ten times. We were also taught to write neatly in script and we were proud of our writing skill and envious of anyone with beautiful writing!


Under the system we went through...just.
Today it would be appended with 'merit'.

Yes, I was disappointed in my score, I thought I'd at least get a 9/10...

[MSTRS]

Yup! I remember as though it were yesterday, standing and chanting the times tables and if we were caught not chanting them we had to sit down and write that table out ten times. We were also taught to write neatly in script and we were proud of our writing skill and envious of anyone with beautiful writing!

Standards, old son. Not unit standards.

[crazyhorse]

My sister is a primary school teacher and she is not even allowed to comment on the child actual learning ability, because they think it will make the child or parent feel their child is not doing well - WTF! If the child is not learning, then back in our day the teacher spelt it out in plain english. I still have all my reports - and I was not on the good list at times :whistle:

[Edbear]

Standards, old son. Not unit standards.

Agreed! Whatever happened to pride in one's work? (Note the correct use of the apostrophe here..?)


My sister is a primary school teacher and she is not even allowed to comment on the child actual learning ability, because they think it will make the child or parent feel their child is not doing well - WTF! If the child is not learning, then back in our day the teacher spelt it out in plain english. I still have all my reports - and I was not on the good list at times :whistle:

Ah, yes! Report day! The anxiety and trepidation! Taking it home to your parents who would sit down and discuss it with you... Choosing which parent to show it to first...

I agree, too, that the school system is failing our young ones who must reach adulthood and be appalled that they were not taught properly and must now suffer the consequences of their inadequacies. How the hell are you going to know right from wrong if you're not told? A teacher worth his/her salt knows how to teach without making the child feel inferior!

[MSTRS]

... our young ones who must reach adulthood and be appalled that they were not taught properly ...

But they don't know what they don't know. And coming up against 'well educated' crusties doesn't bother them, either. Because it was never taught, they don't see it as an issue.

[Dave Lobster]

Is that a pass...?

Would it affect your mana, were it not? :wacko:

[Edbear]

But they don't know what they don't know. And coming up against 'well educated' crusties doesn't bother them, either. Because it was never taught, they don't see it as an issue.

I think you're right. It is a part of the bigger picture where youngsters need to be taught the value of taking pride in their work and in achieving higher standards. It is typical of teenagers to decry any peers who are reaching out to achieve and I take my hat of to those who are striving to learn and who are reaching out for goals ahead.

It's an old chestnut maybe, but parents play a cruicial role in this. Foster self-esteem in your children, encourage them to reach for higher standards regardless of innate ability. Reassure them that they are normal as they struggle with growing up and praise them sincerely for achieving and progressing.

We refused to accept the teachers' declining standards and corrected our children whenever necessary, something they appreciated. They may not be the best at what they do, but they are not embarrassed to communicate with anyone, and they taken seriously when they do.

[Edbear]

Would it affect your mana, were it not? :wacko:

Prolly not my mana, but my feelings would be hurt... ;)

[crazyhorse]

Its the old 'wrap kids in cottonwool' bullshit that is happening these days. Parents drive their kids to school. We didn't - and I didn't. (only on rainy days, I did). Children of today do not know how to stand on their own two feet. or that people in life do fail, and there is only one person who can come first.......
Gosh things have changed along the way.

[avgas]

Errr business talk is actually bad English as well.
Its good that way as there can be major perspective disadvantages using proper English when dealing internationally.
Topside, Top-side, Top side, top side, top Side all have different meanings, all are correct English.
Being accurate and being English mean two (not 2) different things. Spelling is almost irrelevant if you know what the person is saying.

[avgas]

With text phones, there will be fewer young people knowing how to spell. Even schools do not teach spelling like they did in the 'olden' days. Maths is now also done more with calculators and computers - stands to reason no body can spell, add or read :done:
Not entirely true. It is not the schools responsibility to force education. It is their responsibility to present it.
Parents and Children have to find out the reason why it is there and how to use it.
A good book wont read itself - and parents are just as lazy as the kids if the expect it to be read without them pursuing it.
Learning is 90% self driven. Sitting in a class listening to a teacher is not learning.

[crazyhorse]

Not entirely true. It is not the schools responsibility to force education. It is their responsibility to present it.
Parents and Children have to find out the reason why it is there and how to use it.
A good book wont read itself - and parents are just as lazy as the kids if the expect it to be read without them pursuing it.
Learning is 90% self driven. Sitting in a class listening to a teacher is not learning.

I am referring to young children - and yes you are right, we as parents need to read to our children, encourage them to do their maths, etc. I sure did when mine were young. I made the old cards up with the times tables on them and we had games learning them. However, I am referring to what I see out there, and what my sister tells me too. And children hardly read their homework books, because their parents can't be bothered, however, I find it hard to read the text messages I get from some people too - and that is a sign of things in life changing

[Edbear]

Errr business talk is actually bad English as well.
Its good that way as there can be major perspective disadvantages using proper English when dealing internationally.
Topside, Top-side, Top side, top side, top Side all have different meanings, all are correct English.
Being accurate and being English mean two (not 2) different things. Spelling is almost irrelevant if you know what the person is saying.

Ummm... Run that by me again... :(


I am referring to young children - and yes you are right, we as parents need to read to our children, encourage them to do their maths, etc. I sure did when mine were young. I made the old cards up with the times tables on them and we had games learning them. However, I am referring to what I see out there, and what my sister tells me too. And children hardly read their homework books, because their parents can't be bothered, however, I find it hard to read the text messages I get from some people too - and that is a sign of things in life changing

Some of the best times we had with our kids was reading to them in bed, and as they learned to read, having them read to us.

[Swoop]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10627197

Alas, Te Harold strikes again.
The very last word in reporting...

Two cars collided in front of a Hamilton police station early this morning after a woman did a u-turn in front of a police vehicle with its emergency lights flashing.

The accident happened about 4.15am after a police dog unit left the West Hamilton community policing centre, on Whatawhata Rd, to attend a string of reported car break-ins in Western Heights.

When the police car flashed its lights, a car travelling ahead of it initially pulled over outside the Dinsdale shops, acting area commander Inspector Karen Henrikson of Hamilton police said.

However, the car then pulled a u-turn in front of the oncoming police car.

Both vehicles were seriously damaged, coming to rest in front of the police station.

The female driver suffered a cut to the head, while the officer and police dog escaped injury.

Both drivers were treated by ambulance staff.

Motorists were often left wondering what to do when encountering emergency service vehicles with flashing lights, Ms Henrikson said.

"The best advice we can give is to move as far left as safety allows, and if possible come to a halt until the emergency vehicle has past."

[Edbear]

It is becoming very rare to hear anyone say, "Different from" these days, too. It is rare to see someone correctly use "rare", as well. Many, esp. on TradeMe say a vehicle is "rear"!

[MSTRS]

...with good breaks and nice fearings.

[Swoop]

...with good breaks and nice fearings.
Nothing to loose when buying that car, eh?

[MSTRS]

Nothing too loose when buying that car, eh?

Fixed that typo for you...

[Swoop]

Fixed that typo for you...
Chur!<tenchar>

[MSTRS]

Welcum <gytubiuyui>

[yungatart]

There are still many literate New Zealanders out there though, even among those who have left school very recently, so it can't be all the fault of the teachers/education system.
Some of them even post on here, occasionally.....

[smoky]

spelling is almost irrelevant if you know what the person is saying.

aoccdring to rseearch, it deosnt mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers aer in its olny iprmoatnt taht the frist and lsat ltteers be in the rghit pclae
bcuseae the huamn mnid raeds the wrod as a wlohe

[Naki Rat]

aoccdring to rseearch, it deosnt mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers aer in its olny iprmoatnt taht the frist and lsat ltteers be in the rghit pclae
bcuseae the huamn mnid raeds the wrod as a wlohe

But that probably only applies if one knows how the words are spelt to start with :rolleyes:

[avgas]

Naturally Brewed BLACK MAC 330ml DARK BEER.....
Even beer hassa bad smelling

[MikeL]

aoccdring to rseearch, it deosnt mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers aer in its olny iprmoatnt taht the frist and lsat ltteers be in the rghit pclae
bcuseae the huamn mnid raeds the wrod as a wlohe

This research finding pops up every so often and at first sight it does appear to have profound implications for the importance we place on both spelling and reading techniques. But caution is advisable. Experienced and fluent readers of English may have no difficulty deciphering the message, but would anyone claim that they do so as quickly and confidently as for a normally-spelt passage?
The conclusion that the human mind reads the word as a whole is misleading. Perhaps what happens is that the eye scans the word sequentially from left to right as normally and the brain recognises the first and last letters, then rapidly rearranges the scrambled middle using contextual clues and familiarity. All of which implies that stored in the brain is the correct spelling of the word to start with.
It would be interesting for someone with children at various stages of reading skill to try the passage on them.

[Edbear]

This research finding pops up every so often and at first sight it does appear to have profound implications for the importance we place on both spelling and reading techniques. But caution is advisable. Experienced and fluent readers of English may have no difficulty deciphering the message, but would anyone claim that they do so as quickly and confidently as for a normally-spelt passage?
The conclusion that the human mind reads the word as a whole is misleading. Perhaps what happens is that the eye scans the word sequentially from left to right as normally and the brain recognises the first and last letters, then rapidly rearranges the scrambled middle using contextual clues and familiarity. All of which implies that stored in the brain is the correct spelling of the word to start with.
It would be interesting for someone with children at various stages of reading skill to try the passage on them.

A good point. I also agree with your sig...

[SPman]

We refused to accept the teachers' declining standards and corrected our children whenever necessary, something they appreciated.We still do it to our kids and they are hitting 30! A friend's kids have degrees coming out their ears, yet still have appalling spelling and grammar skills. It is all well and good saying "as long as they can be understood, it's ok" and, if they are speaking, they usually can be understood, but, when they write stuff down, subtle changes in spelling can make a big difference in meaning. The Sri Lankans and Chinese in our office have better English skills than most of the younger people I know!

[MSTRS]

...subtle changes in spelling can make a big difference in meaning...

Can't they just?
"I brought my lunch today."
"Why didn't you buy it like we did?"
"But I did..."

[mister.koz]

For the most part my spelling is never an issue because I know how to tell MS Word (or openOffice.org) that I would like my spelling corrected in EN-NZ.

In general though; for the average person writing an email to their mum stating that "yes, i do have clean underwear" its probably not that important. Of course apathy is probably how spelling and grammar got so bad in the first place.

What about the ones who go out of their way to spell things incorrectly?

"heye howes yor dey gohing" and such - drives me banana's.

[MSTRS]

There's that bloody aberrant apostrophe, again

[Mom]

Standards have slipped - but abuse of apostrophes is never acceptable.

You big bully boy!


Have you not heard of the menopause? Sheesh.

It is "Men At Pause" thank you very much. The poor bastards are too friggen scared to move if truth be told.


Hey Edbear. Try agreements instead of aggreements :blip:

[smoky]

This research finding pops up every so often and at first sight it does appear to have profound implications ...Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal bla bla blalbla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal blabla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal bla..normally-spelt passage?
The conclusion that the human mind reads tbla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal bla bbla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal blabla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal blabla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal bla of the word to start with.
It would bla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal blabla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal bla them.

FFS? :rofl: every one knows that, it was posted as light hearted humour

[Pixie]

In recent threads there has been much posted about spelling and grammar. One poster said his teacher wasn't concerned whether he could read or write!

Language standards have continued to decline and we have now reached the stage where adults in positions of responsibility and in the public arena can't spell.

It's fine for the young one's who don't understand the implications to say, "Who cares?", however the ramifications for society are profound and long lasting. Communcation is the life-blood of society and effective communication is especially important in business. A business not able to communicate properly is going to suffer and fail and this is even more critical in the international arena where people expect to be presented with correct language, especially where our language is not their primary language.

Having a son-in-law who speaks four languages fluently and gets by in a couple more and who immigrated here from Germany, has impressed upon me the need to be accurate. His international business connections has lead to me dealing with overseas companies and has opened business opportunities for me here. We are now forming business aggreements with international and overseas companies and have begun importing product from Germany with more to come.

Were I not able to communicate accurately and effectively I would never be taken seriously and would never have the opportunities offered to me thus far. The company owners and managers I meet with need to be impressed, not only with dress and knowledge, but as importantly with clear, accurate and easily understood communication - language standards of the highest order.

As an employer, my son-in-law expects clear and accurate communication from his employees as mistakes and lack of clarity cost him time and money. He goes to great lengths to communicate efectively with staff so that they know what they need to do and he expects they will communicate clearly and effectively with customers. Many of his clients are of the "upper class", by that I mean well-off business people who expect the highest standards of workmanship and communication. Jobs he contracts for are at the high end of the market including multi-story commercial businesses in the city. As such the employees have nice shirts provided and are expected to be as clean and well dressed as the type of work allows, including shaved. If he empoyed a worker with a beard the worker would need to be well groomed, not scruffy.

The employees are often the "face" of the company and as such the company is judged by the conduct and speech of the employee. The reputation of the company can be severely damaged by poorly spoken, slovenly employees and there is only a set number of times a boss can repair damage before losing what may be a key client, costing the company a lot of money as word spreads about, or even from, the disgruntled customer.

It is not vanity to endeavour to speak and write correctly, nor is it of no consequence to refuse to learn how. It makes good sense in both a personal and business application as relationships are built or destroyed by the standard of communication. Effective language skills open up opportunities denied to those who cannot speak, read or write properly.

Rant over...

Very true.
One must remember that in today's world we are dealing with international contacts who learn very good written English as a second language.
When you correspond with them in what looks like something a 5 year old from a remedial reading class (do they even still have those)wrote ,it fails to impress.

[Mom]

The curriculum, Te Whariki? I may go and look that up, but close enough for now. While the education of our nations children is a fluid and constantly adjusted process, it is more and more about reaching standards which when viewed from the outside looking in, appear to be getting lower and lower every year, the standards that is. The amount of paper work required to be done to "prove" you are testing your students seems to be taking more and more time away from the actual "teaching".
I have been lucky. My kids for the most went through school with "experienced" teachers who knew how to complete paper work to appease, and still actually teach my kids. There were a few exceptions along the way, but I went and voiced my concerns. Seemingly, if you are interested and make the effort (apart from parent/teacher nights) things improve.

I would not be a teacher for "All the tea in China" as the saying goes. Too many parents like me that actually gave a shit to contend with. Too much form filling and statistic taking and paperwork to do. No wonder many get pissed off and slack off. We are teaching to the lowest common denominator afterall.

Sorry to any teachers on here, nothing personal. I have met many really fantastic teachers, but far to, far to many that were not.

[Edbear]

You big bully boy!



It is "Men At Pause" thank you very much. The poor bastards are too friggen scared to move if truth be told.


Hey Edbear. Try agreements instead of aggreements :blip:

Hmmm, maybe that was an agregious agreement...?

[Pixie]

There are still many literate New Zealanders out there though, even among those who have left school very recently, so it can't be all the fault of the teachers/education system.
Some of them even post on here, occasionally.....

Not necessarily anything to do with the teachers.
My reading age at school was always several years beyond my chronological age.It had nothing to do with my teachers,who were all hippies and beatniks,it was because I enjoyed reading and could never get enough books.

[Edbear]

Very true.
One must remember that in today's world we are dealing with international contacts who learn very good written English as a second language.
When you correspond with them in what looks like something a 5 year old from a remedial reading class (do they even still have those)wrote ,it fails to impress.

Agreed, we are living in a true global village now and much if not most business is international.


The curriculum, Te Whariki? I may go and look that up, but close enough for now. While the education of our nations children is a fluid and constantly adjusted process, it is more and more about reaching standards which when viewed from the outside looking in, appear to be getting lower and lower every year, the standards that is. The amount of paper work required to be done to "prove" you are testing your students seems to be taking more and more time away from the actual "teaching".
I have been lucky. My kids for the most went through school with "experienced" teachers who knew how to complete paper work to appease, and still actually teach my kids. There were a few exceptions along the way, but I went and voiced my concerns. Seemingly, if you are interested and make the effort (apart from parent/teacher nights) things improve.

I would not be a teacher for "All the tea in China" as the saying goes. Too many parents like me that actually gave a shit to contend with. Too much form filling and statistic taking and paperwork to do. No wonder many get pissed off and slack off. We are teaching to the lowest common denominator afterall.

Sorry to any teachers on here, nothing personal. I have met many really fantastic teachers, but far to, far to many that were not.

My wife is qualified to teach up to year 8 and wouldn't want to due to the behaviour of the kids! Working in early childhood education she, (and I), are both amazed and appalled at the parenting. Some parent's attitudes boggle the mind! Not just talking about the lowest of the socio-economic strata here, these are well-to-do middle-class people, often!

[Pixie]

We still do it to our kids and they are hitting 30! A friend's kids have degrees coming out their ears, yet still have appalling spelling and grammar skills. It is all well and good saying "as long as they can be understood, it's ok" and, if they are speaking, they usually can be understood, but, when they write stuff down, subtle changes in spelling can make a big difference in meaning.

Yes,
"Helping my uncle jack off a horse" has quite a different meaning to: "Helping my Uncle Jack,off a horse.

Edit: Boom tish

[mister.koz]

Hmmm, maybe that was an agregious agreement...?

Greg, nah he signed out a while ago, this was getting too weird for his sensitive sense's.

[Mom]

sense's.

Absolutely, fantabulously, gorgeous use of Mother England :clap:

[mister.koz]

Absolutely, fantabulously, gorgeous use of Mother England :clap:

:yes: Thanks Mom, i been a tryin :yes:

[Edbear]

:yes: Thanks Mom, i been a tryin :yes:

Hey, t'aint nobody more tryin' than me!

(Please note correct use of apostrophes.)

[tigertim20]

In recent threads there has been much posted about spelling and grammar. One poster said his teacher wasn't concerned whether he could read or write!

Language standards have continued to decline and we have now reached the stage where adults in positions of responsibility and in the public arena can't spell.

It's fine for the young one's who don't understand the implications to say, "Who cares?", however the ramifications for society are profound and long lasting. Communcation is the life-blood of society and effective communication is especially important in business. A business not able to communicate properly is going to suffer and fail and this is even more critical in the international arena where people expect to be presented with correct language, especially where our language is not their primary language.

Having a son-in-law who speaks four languages fluently and gets by in a couple more and who immigrated here from Germany, has impressed upon me the need to be accurate. His international business connections has lead to me dealing with overseas companies and has opened business opportunities for me here. We are now forming business aggreements with international and overseas companies and have begun importing product from Germany with more to come.

Were I not able to communicate accurately and effectively I would never be taken seriously and would never have the opportunities offered to me thus far. The company owners and managers I meet with need to be impressed, not only with dress and knowledge, but as importantly with clear, accurate and easily understood communication - language standards of the highest order.

As an employer, my son-in-law expects clear and accurate communication from his employees as mistakes and lack of clarity cost him time and money. He goes to great lengths to communicate efectively with staff so that they know what they need to do and he expects they will communicate clearly and effectively with customers. Many of his clients are of the "upper class", by that I mean well-off business people who expect the highest standards of workmanship and communication. Jobs he contracts for are at the high end of the market including multi-story commercial businesses in the city. As such the employees have nice shirts provided and are expected to be as clean and well dressed as the type of work allows, including shaved. If he empoyed a worker with a beard the worker would need to be well groomed, not scruffy.

The employees are often the "face" of the company and as such the company is judged by the conduct and speech of the employee. The reputation of the company can be severely damaged by poorly spoken, slovenly employees and there is only a set number of times a boss can repair damage before losing what may be a key client, costing the company a lot of money as word spreads about, or even from, the disgruntled customer.

It is not vanity to endeavour to speak and write correctly, nor is it of no consequence to refuse to learn how. It makes good sense in both a personal and business application as relationships are built or destroyed by the standard of communication. Effective language skills open up opportunities denied to those who cannot speak, read or write properly.

Rant over...
hmm, I think people often over estimate the effect of the degredation of spelling and grammar these days, it might make a written post or message take a tad longer to be read, but provided one can understand, or infer what the poster is saaying, I dont think it matters. Im saying that provided you can say what you are saying, in a manner that those around you can understand, then typos and over imperfections in ones expression of the English language don't really matter.

As for it having degraded, perhaps people should look at how English was spoken in 1950, and 1800, and so on.. it has changed over time, as all languages do. Indeed you will find different 'dialects' of English in different pockets of New Zealand, the same applies to other countries ans languages too. historically, neither written nor spoken English has been a static example of communication. it does and will continue to change over time.

In other words, get over it!!!

[Edbear]

hmm, I think people often over estimate the effect of the degredation of spelling and grammar these days, it might make a written post or message take a tad longer to be read, but provided one can understand, or infer what the poster is saaying, I dont think it matters. Im saying that provided you can say what you are saying, in a manner that those around you can understand, then typos and over imperfections in ones expression of the English language don't really matter.

As for it having degraded, perhaps people should look at how English was spoken in 1950, and 1800, and so on.. it has changed over time, as all languages do. Indeed you will find different 'dialects' of English in different pockets of New Zealand, the same applies to other countries ans languages too. historically, neither written nor spoken English has been a static example of communication. it does and will continue to change over time.

In other words, get over it!!!

English is a living language and naturally changes over time, that is why it is becoming the world language at the cost of the other languages. Also due to the British Empire's world-wide influence, of course.

However, what I talk about is the unecessary degradation of language skills to the detriment of the speaker/writer. Laziness and immature arrogance simply means fewer real-life opportunities for those who cannot read/write and speak properly and that they are not taken seriously, to their disadvantage. You would simply not be able to do what those like myself can do unless you can use correct English, both written and verbal.

If I reverted to your level of language, I would very quickly lose my business.

[steve_t]

English is a living language and naturally changes over time, that is why it is becoming the world language at the cost of the other languages. Also due to the British Empire's world-wide influence, of course.

However, what I talk about is the unecessary degradation of language skills to the detriment of the speaker/writer. Laziness and immature arrogance simply means fewer real-life opportunities for those who cannot read/write and speak properly and that they are not taken seriously, to their disadvantage. You would simply not be able to do what those like myself can do unless you can use correct English, both written and verbal.

If I reverted to your level of language, I would very quickly lose my business.

So I'm not the only one rolling my eyes at the Oxford English Dictionary people adding words to the dictionary like "unfriend" meaning to remove someone from being your friend on a social networking site like facebook/bebo, or "tramp stamp" which might as well be a target ;) LOL

[MikeL]

FFS? :rofl: every one knows that, it was posted as light hearted humour

Quite so. How can I have been so naive as to think some people might have found some aspect of psycholinguistics genuinely interesting? :weep:
I'll try not to be so pedantic in future.

[Ratti]

PS. There are two typo's in the above...

and an incorrect use ...twice, same word + another one -different word

[Ratti]

Hey, t'aint nobody more tryin' than me!

(Please note correct use of apostrophes.)

Is aint a real word?

[Dave Lobster]

I have met many really fantastic teachers, but far to, far to many that were not.

Too many?

8 9 10

[Edbear]

Is aint a real word?

Ain't my day, today, is it...?

Ain't
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ain't is a colloquialism and a contraction originally used for "am not", but also used for "is not", "are not", "has not", or "have not" in the common vernacular. In some dialects it is also used as a contraction of "do not", "does not", and "did not" (e.g. I ain't know that). The word is a perennial issue in English usage. It is a word that is widely used by many people, but its use is commonly considered to be improper.[1]

[Ratti]

well there we have it...must be correct 'cos Edbear dun got it offa wikipedia

[Edbear]

well there we have it...must be correct 'cos Edbear dun got it offa wikipedia

And Mirriam Webster...

Main Entry: ain't
Pronunciation: \ˈānt\
Etymology: contraction of are not
Date: 1749
1 : am not : are not : is not
2 : have not : has not
3 : do not : does not : did not —used in some varieties of Black English

usage Although widely disapproved as nonstandard and more common in the habitual speech of the less educated, ain't in senses 1 and 2 is flourishing in American English. It is used in both speech and writing to catch attention and to gain emphasis <the wackiness of movies, once so deliciously amusing, ain't funny anymore — Richard Schickel> <I am telling you—there ain't going to be any blackmail — R. M. Nixon>. It is used especially in journalistic prose as part of a consistently informal style <the creative process ain't easy — Mike Royko>. This informal ain't is commonly distinguished from habitual ain't by its frequent occurrence in fixed constructions and phrases <well—class it ain't — Cleveland Amory> <for money? say it ain't so, Jimmy! — Andy Rooney> <you ain't seen nothing yet> <that ain't hay> <two out of three ain't bad> <if it ain't broke, don't fix it>. In fiction ain't is used for purposes of characterization; in familiar correspondence it tends to be the mark of a warm personal friendship. It is also used for metrical reasons in popular songs <Ain't She Sweet> <It Ain't Necessarily So>. Our evidence shows British use to be much the same as American.

You're a hard woman, Ratti... But I's shore ur wuvvable anyways...

[smoky]

Quite so. How can I have been so naive as to think some people might have found some aspect of psycholinguistics genuinely interesting? :weep:
I'll try not to be so pedantic in future.

You actually take this shit on KB seriously enough to describe it as a study on the relationship between language and psychology, or think anything in this thread actually bears any resemblance to the study of the origins and development of linguistics?
You're F***ing cracked you are

You need to ride more and think less

[golfmade]

Funnily enough, some of the best speakers of English I have ever met are South Africans and I personally find their accent quite pleasant. Blacks from Sudan I've met are very nicely spoken and extremely courteous, (not to mention being among the most attractive people I've seen too.)

I didn't mean to imply all people from South Africa, but just as a few examples. Some of my best friends here are from South Africa but English is their first language, Afrikaans second, where as the ones I've met that I could hardly understand English wasn't their main language, Afrikaans was.

[mister.koz]

well, i reckon its tha message that's important and provided that there's enough punctuation to split "jack off" to "jack, off" who cares :)

people who take spelling seriously on here seem to be more bored than literary.

:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

[Dave Lobster]

people who take spelling seriously on here seem to be more bored than literary.




It literary often bored?

[mister.koz]

It literary often bored?

Oh dude, all the time... the poor bastard.

[Edbear]

I didn't mean to imply all people from South Africa, but just as a few examples. Some of my best friends here are from South Africa but English is their first language, Afrikaans second, where as the ones I've met that I could hardly understand English wasn't their main language, Afrikaans was.

Agreed. Even my son-in-law, who was Israeli born, grew up in Texas before moving to Germany, but English is his third language in reality and he still has some difficulties with it, although you wouldn't pick that from speaking to him. He often checks spelling and grammar with me, using me as a proof-reader for emails and quotes as he doesn't want to present anything in a less than professional manner to his clients and companies he deals with.

[Ratti]

You're a hard woman, Ratti... But I's shore ur wuvvable anyways...

SSHHH don't tell everyone, you'll spoil my reputation.

[Edbear]

:innocent:
SSHHH don't tell everyone, you'll spoil my reputation.

OK it'll be our secret... :innocent:

[Ratti]

Seriously, misuse of apostrophe's drives' me nut's

[yungatart]

Agreed. Even my son-in-law, who was Israeli born, grew up in Texas before moving to Germany, but English is his third language in reality and he still has some difficulties with it, although you wouldn't pick that from speaking to him. He often checks spelling and grammar with me, using me as a proof-reader for emails and quotes as he doesn't want to present anything in a less than professional manner to his clients and companies he deals with.

And, there, good Sir, you have it in a nutshell.
He can be bothered, but most Kiwis are afflicted with an unhealthy dose of,"She''ll be right, mate", and are not botherd in the slightest by errors in spelling, punctuation and/or grammar.

[mister.koz]

And, there, good Sir, you have it in a nutshell.
He can be bothered, but most Kiwis are afflicted with an unhealthy dose of,"She''ll be right, mate", and are not botherd in the slightest by errors in spelling, punctuation and/or grammar.

Things need to be guaged with a bit of balance though. You don't wear your best suit to the fish and chip shop on a friday (unless of course you are taking a client out and they suggested fish and chips). You also wouldn't go to a job interview at a law wearing a singlet, stubbies and jandals.

To what end does accuracy and proficiency have purpose? I think that in many situations a professional manor is required for professional engagements and communication, however if you are emailing your GF on a tuesday does she really care that you didn't capitalise the T?

[yungatart]

I care!
I like wriiten English to be correct.
If I were your girlfriend, and you couldn't be bothered presenting English in a correct manner for me, I would be wondering about your standards in general.
It would not be a lasting relationship, it IS the detail that is important!

[Dave Lobster]

To what end does accuracy and proficiency have purpose? I think that in many situations a professional manor is required for professional engagements and communication. However, if you are e-mailing your GF on a tuesday does she really care that you didn't capitalise the T?

Oh yes. And rightly so.

[mister.koz]

I care!
I like wriiten English to be correct.
If I were your girlfriend, and you couldn't be bothered presenting English in a correct manner for me, I would be wondering about your standards in general.
It would not be a lasting relationship, it IS the detail that is important!

Each to our own. In saying that if my partner was annoyed at my punctuation and grammar I would be seriously concerned that she was both mental and had dimented priorities.

She doesn't care at all as it happens, probably because she knows i write 1000s of lines of code and user documentation every day in my job and thus am over literary perfection by the end of the day. Also because she cares more about the time we spend together and the amount of thought we employ when going out of our way for each other than the lack of full stops in my messages.

[smoky]

If I were your girlfriend, and you couldn't be bothered presenting English in a correct manner for me, I would be wondering about your standards in general.
It would not be a lasting relationship.........!


Each to our own. In saying that if my partner was annoyed at my punctuation and grammar I would be seriously concerned that she was both mental and had dimented priorities.

And judging by the quality of your lady Mr koz - you must be doing something right............. or should that be; doing something 'write'

what woman would resist an email like; Hay babe c u l8r, I want some of ur sexc booty

[Edbear]

And, there, good Sir, you have it in a nutshell.
He can be bothered, but most Kiwis are afflicted with an unhealthy dose of,"She''ll be right, mate", and are not botherd in the slightest by errors in spelling, punctuation and/or grammar.

You're right, but what is more concerning is that even those who do want to appear professional simply do not know how to spell or speak correctly. When was the last time you heard someone saying, "different from", or "bought"?

For those of us who do know, it certainly grates on the nerves, but as you say, many just couldn't care less. That reminds me, why does everyone say, "could care less" when they mean, "couldn't care less"?

It is a sad reflection on our education system that children are simply not taught the correct spelling and meaning of words and phrases. Maybe one could argue that students have the responsibility to learn for themselves and that may be true of tertiary or even college students but they are not even encouraged to question, nor are they told what they need to learn. As has been well said, it starts at home from infancy with parents who can be bothered teaching their children.

[Edbear]

And judging by the quality of your lady Mr koz - you must be doing something right............. or should that be; doing something 'write'

what woman would resist an email like; Hay babe c u l8r, I want some of ur sexc booty

My wife simply sends back, "LOL!!!"

Although I do spell it correctly...

[smoky]

My wife simply sends back, "LOL!!!"

Although I do spell it correctly...

try spelling my way and see what she replies

[Edbear]

try spelling my way and see what she replies

That's when she comes back with the, "You're weird!" attitude...

[smoky]

That's when she comes back with the, "You're weird!" attitude...

She thinks that's weird!!! you should freak her out and ask her about nipple clamps and butt plugs - then she'd have a reason to come back with "you're weird!"

[quickbuck]

That's when she comes back with the, "You're weird!" attitude...

At least she doesn't come back with "your weird".....

Yes, I am one of those that gets wound up with poor English too.....
The incorrect use of there (their), and to (too) are more of my pet hates....
I even look closely at Feilding every time I read it to make sure the author has written it correctly.....

I think i need some serious help!

[Edbear]

She thinks that's weird!!! you should freak her out and ask her about nipple clamps and butt plugs - then she'd have a reason to come back with "you're weird!"

That would result in her saying, "Who are you and what have you done with my husband!?"


At least she doesn't come back with "your weird".....

Yes, I am one of those that gets wound up with poor English too.....
The incorrect use of there (their), and to (too) are more of my pet hates....
I even look closely at Feilding every time I read it to make sure the author has written it correctly.....

I think i need some serious help!

Yeah, I know, we should start a support group. We could call it COPE, Citizens Opposing Poor English! :done:

[quickbuck]

That would result in her saying, "Who are you and what have you done with my husband!?"



Yeah, I know, we should start a support group. We could call it COPE, Citizens Opposing Poor English! :done:
Count me in :)

[mister.koz]

And judging by the quality of your lady Mr koz - you must be doing something right............. or should that be; doing something 'write'

what woman would resist an email like; Hay babe c u l8r, I want some of ur sexc booty

hehe yeah she's wonderful :) to be fair i only really neglect the capitalisation in texts all the words are usually spelled correctly, the iphone's got a reasonable keyboard :)


She thinks that's weird!!! you should freak her out and ask her about nipple clamps and butt plugs - then she'd have a reason to come back with "you're weird!"

:weep::weep: i'm out of green bling's

[Edbear]

She thinks that's weird!!! you should freak her out and ask her about nipple clamps and butt plugs - then she'd have a reason to come back with "you're weird!"


Count me in :)

We're a dying breed mate! The great unwashed masses are winning through sheer weight of numbers. :weep:

[mister.koz]

We're a dying breed mate! The great unwashed masses are winning through sheer weight of numbers. :weep:

ok.... the way you've quoted that doesn't look so favourable.

oh and ' ''''' ' '' '''' '' :bleh:

[quickbuck]

We're a dying breed mate! The great unwashed masses are winning through sheer weight of numbers. :weep:
Yes....
What is really annoying is when young people don't actually have the English skills to write down concisely what they did to rectify a fault in aircraft maintenance records.
I have to put up with that every day.
Sometimes I feel like I'm teaching Third Form Typing! (Or Year 8 is it?).

Writing "Fixed" may fill in the space, but there is no way it would stand up in the court of enquiry should the worst happen....

On that, sometimes we have to write up reports on analysis of an Aircraft Component.
Heaven help us when the next generation get to write up one of those.

[Edbear]

ok.... the way you've quoted that doesn't look so favourable.

oh and ' ''''' ' '' '''' '' :bleh:

:girlfight: :bash:




Yes....
What is really annoying is when young people don't actually have the English skills to write down concisely what they did to rectify a fault in aircraft maintenance records.
I have to put up with that every day.
Sometimes I feel like I'm teaching Third Form Typing! (Or Year 8 is it?).

Writing "Fixed" may fill in the space, but there is no way it would stand up in the court of enquiry should the worst happen....

On that, sometimes we have to write up reports on analysis of an Aircraft Component.
Heaven help us when the next generation get to write up one of those.

LOL!!! You expect to see that in jokes about the industry but not for real! Hope safety is not affected...

[quickbuck]

:girlfight: :bash:

LOL!!! You expect to see that in jokes about the industry but not for real! Hope safety is not affected...

Rest assured, Safety is not compromised... there is a crusty old Sergent making sure the troops type in the correct text..... Oh, that would be me!
I'm not that old, but some of the people who work for me can't even remember that Iroquois used to be based in Auckland.

They were based there when I made Sergent! That wasn't that long ago... Honestly.
To be fair to them, they were in Primary School when we moved the Squadron down to Ohakea. They were probably in the Junior School when we went into East Timor.
On that, some weren't even born when I signed on for 20!

[golfmade]

Agreed. Even my son-in-law, who was Israeli born, grew up in Texas before moving to Germany, but English is his third language in reality and he still has some difficulties with it, although you wouldn't pick that from speaking to him. He often checks spelling and grammar with me, using me as a proof-reader for emails and quotes as he doesn't want to present anything in a less than professional manner to his clients and companies he deals with.

Good example and makes me feel like I didn't put enough effort in when I studied German before, or currently studying Mandarin.

In fact some of my best friends here are from Germany and Sweden, but you wouldn't know it from listening to them and their written spelling and grammar are great as well.

[Edbear]

Good example and makes me feel like I didn't put enough effort in when I studied German before, or currently studying Mandarin.

In fact some of my best friends here are from Germany and Sweden, but you wouldn't know it from listening to them and their written spelling and grammar are great as well.

A good point, really. If we learn another language, (and one of my only regrets growing up in NZ is that we weren't exposed to different languages as children, nor were we encouraged to learn another language), we learn the correct spelling, pronunciation and writing of the new language. While we also learn as much as possible how the native speakers talk commonly, we always endeavour to be correct in that language. A common feature in comedy is having a foreigner make a fool of themselves in another language.

One of the most common complaints from those learning English, or immigrating here and trying to fit into our society, is the very real diffculty they have in understanding us due to the confusion over words and their meanings brought about by our inability to speak and write our own language correctly.

[Ratti]

i work with a lot of immigrants from various parts of our beautiful planet..and one or two who are from further out. They say the biggest problem with living here, is getting used to our accent. Swallowed sounds, not moving our lips much and general mumbling makes it hard for them.
I'd have to say that I agree with them when it comes to making sense of the speech of the young men I work with. They mumble, speak too fast and generally use forms of the language with which I am unfamiliar...but then perhaps I am getting deaf and old?

[Edbear]

Rest assured, Safety is not compromised... there is a crusty old Sergent making sure the troops type in the correct text..... Oh, that would be me!
I'm not that old, but some of the people who work for me can't even remember that Iroquois used to be based in Auckland.

They were based there when I made Sergent! That wasn't that long ago... Honestly.
To be fair to them, they were in Primary School when we moved the Squadron down to Ohakea. They were probably in the Junior School when we went into East Timor.
On that, some weren't even born when I signed on for 20!

Youngsters these days! I am often shocked to find out the birth dates of people these days, I'm usually older than their fathers! :pinch:

Especially upsetting to talk to a pretty young lady and realise she's younger than my daughters and her mother is ten years younger than my wife! Not that I'm casting about, you understand, I'm quite happy with the Missus who looks ten years younger anyway... :whistle:

Maybe I should stop there before I get into trouble... :shifty:

[golfmade]

A good point, really. If we learn another language, (and one of my only regrets growing up in NZ is that we weren't exposed to different languages as children, nor were we encouraged to learn another language), we learn the correct spelling, pronunciation and writing of the new language. While we also learn as much as possible how the native speakers talk commonly, we always endeavour to be correct in that language. A common feature in comedy is having a foreigner make a fool of themselves in another language.

One of the most common complaints from those learning English, or immigrating here and trying to fit into our society, is the very real diffculty they have in understanding us due to the confusion over words and their meanings brought about by our inability to speak and write our own language correctly.

Agreed and feel the exact same even though I grew up in the States. Back home when I grew up everyone expected foreigners to be able to use English and yet no one was really expected to be able to speak a foreign language. It's changing somewhat but still most schools don't start teaching a foreign language until junior or even senior high school. Talking to friends from Europe for example, they generally start learning English very young and possibly a second foreign language.

As for immigrants to another country it really depends. I personally feel an immigrant should attempt to learn the new language to at least a basic level where they can get help if they need it and whatnot. Here in Taiwan plenty of expats don't even bother to learn any Mandarin and to me it's their loss. BUT, the funniest thing I've noticed about Taiwan is that almost none of the locals expect foreigners to learn Mandarin, it's just expected that Mandarin is too difficult and foreigners won't bother to learn it. Actually wish that Taiwan was a bit more like NZ and the States in that sense.

[Edbear]

i work with a lot of immigrants from various parts of our beautiful planet..and one or two who are from further out. They say the biggest problem with living here, is getting used to our accent. Swallowed sounds, not moving our lips much and general mumbling makes it hard for them.
I'd have to say that I agree with them when it comes to making sense of the speech of the young men I work with. They mumble, speak too fast and generally use forms of the language with which I am unfamiliar...but then perhaps I am getting deaf and old?

I agree...

[Ratti]

with what? that I am getting deaf and old?

[golfmade]

with what? that I am getting deaf and old?

Probably, that's why he left it with ...

Bwahahah ;)

[Ratti]

humph

if yous fellas wernt so nice id be relly pissed at yas.

[Edbear]

:innocent: :hug:

[MikeL]

You actually take this shit on KB seriously enough to describe it as a study on the relationship between language and psychology, or think anything in this thread actually bears any resemblance to the study of the origins and development of linguistics?
You're F***ing cracked you are

You need to ride more and think less

Tempted as I am to believe that the answer to all life's problems is simply to ride more, I can't help thinking that there may be a bit more to life than that...
Intellectual curiosity, for instance, and a desire to understand how things work, including the brain and the riddle of language.
And yes, psycholinguistics is a recognised science, and the example of scrambled spelling which you think is just a joke can tell us something about how the deep structure of language is organised.
Here's a challenge: read Chomsky's contributions to psycholinguistics and then tell me I'm f***ing cracked.
On second thoughts don't bother: you'll probably conclude that Chomsky is f***ing cracked.
I think I'll go for a ride...

[quickbuck]

I think I'll go for a ride...

At this hour? You're cracked!

[smoky]

Tempted as I am to believe that the answer to all life's problems is simply to ride more, I can't help thinking that there may be a bit more to life than that...
Intellectual curiosity, for instance, and a desire to understand how things work, including the brain and the riddle of language.
And yes, psycholinguistics is a recognised science, and the example of scrambled spelling which you think is just a joke can tell us something about how the deep structure of language is organised.
Here's a challenge: read Chomsky's contributions to psycholinguistics and then tell me I'm f***ing cracked.
On second thoughts don't bother: you'll probably conclude that Chomsky is f***ing cracked.
I think I'll go for a ride...

A couple of things; firstly it's Kiwibiker - not some sort of research forum
I respect anyone who has an interest in furthering their education, but get it in perspective dude - we're on here having a laugh
Often jumped up twats get on here and spout on as though they are more intelligent than most dumb arse bikers
'hey look at me I know big words'
It's called wanking in public

There a number of people on KB who could probably run circles around you when it comes what you think is 'psycholinguistics'. You may want to tone down the wank factor a bit

[Edbear]

A couple of things; firstly it's Kiwibiker - not some sort of research forum
I respect anyone who has an interest in furthering their education, but get it in perspective dude - we're on here having a laugh
Often jumped up twats get on here and spout on as though they are more intelligent than most dumb arse bikers
'hey look at me I know big words'
It's called wanking in public

There a number of people on KB who could probably run circles around you when it comes what you think is 'psycholinguistics'. You may want to tone down the wank factor a bit

You may have a point, however it's not related to intelligence so much as the effect of poor communication on society and the person. Many geniuses have had difficulty with language for one reason or other - some a lack of schooling, others dyslexia, or any one of many reasons. Also, the use of "big words" is not necessarily communicating accurately or effectively either.

Clear, accurate and simple is usually best and avoids confusion and misunderstanding. It is unarguable that poor language skills will mean that one is not taken seriously, and will be considered lazy, uneducated or uncaring. Fair or not, that is the reality of life and it behooves us to make the time and effort to learn.

[Edbear]

PS. KB is a melting pot of society and there are all types on here posting in all manner of ways. It is usually obvious when the language is of no consequence, however, it is also plainly apparent the KB reflects the scope of language problems in our society with seemingly the majority genuinely unable to spell correctly or know the meaning of words, typos aside.

[MSTRS]

... it is also plainly apparent the KB reflects the scope of language problems in our society ....

i'm getting bored of this...
Time too join them?
Ya fuckin fuckers - yav fucked the fucken fucker

[Edbear]

Whon thot Aprille swithin potrzebie,
The burgid prillie gives one heebie-jeebie.

[Ratti]

never mind Edbear, you're quickly becoming one of my favourite posters.

Not that I agree with you all the time, but your posts are sufficiently clear that I know exactly what I'm NOT agreeing with. There are others that leave me shaking my head in puzzlement.

[Edbear]

never mind Edbear, you're quickly becoming one of my favourite posters.

Not that I agree with you all the time, but your posts are sufficiently clear that I know exactly what I'm NOT agreeing with. There are others that leave me shaking my head in puzzlement.

Hmmm... I'll have to work on that... <_<

[MikeL]

A couple of things; firstly it's Kiwibiker - not some sort of research forum
I respect anyone who has an interest in furthering their education, but get it in perspective dude - we're on here having a laugh
Often jumped up twats get on here and spout on as though they are more intelligent than most dumb arse bikers
'hey look at me I know big words'
It's called wanking in public

There a number of people on KB who could probably run circles around you when it comes what you think is 'psycholinguistics'. You may want to tone down the wank factor a bit

O.K. I capitulate. There's just so far you can go trying to stimulate serious discussion. Sooner or later some Neanderthal with a chip on his shoulder comes along and squashes it. Twice before I've abandoned this forum because of exactly that attitude. I came back (a triumph of hope over experience) but now it's time to leave again. Carry on laughing.

[smoky]

O.K. I capitulate. There's just so far you can go trying to stimulate serious discussion.

Not really - there are serious, interesting or in-depth conversations on KB, however if its a condescending thread, and there are a number of contributors who are really only using it as a way to postulate their own eminence, which indicates the thread topic was only posed to provide a platform to showcase their obvious prowess - then yes, I'll have a little fun with it, post a bit of light hearted comment in the thread - but if you feel it has spoilt your wankfest, fair enough ....

....... now it's time (for you) to leave again. Carry on laughing.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Edbear]

Not really - there are serious, interesting or in-depth conversations on KB, however if its a condescending thread, and there are a number of contributors who are really only using it as a way to postulate their own eminence, which indicates the thread topic was only posed to provide a platform to showcase their obvious prowess - then yes, I'll have a little fun with it, post a bit of light hearted comment in the thread - but if you feel it has spoilt your wankfest, fair enough ....

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

My good Sir, I am wounded to think you may possibly be refering to the OP. :mellow: You have misjudged my intentions if that is so.

The thread was instigated by the frequent banter and arguments on KB about spelling and grammar and that so many insisted that it is of no consequence whether they could spell or use the right words.

Unfortunately, it appears that one who does endeavour to use correct English or point out said consequences is considered to be stroking his ego, (by some anyway). Not so, my friend, time and place and all that and for the most part I ignore the language used in most threads, as it really is of little consequence to the matter under discussion.

Contrarily, it is also arrogance to insist on using incorrect language and refusing to learn the proper spelling and meaning of words to the detriment of the person.

But I have a sense of humour and often use deliberately incorrect spelling and language. I love the English language for it's inconsistency and ambiguity and the insinuations possible that are not avaiable in many other, more "strict" languages. We can have endless fun here and many threads demonstrate that. :yes:

[mister.koz]

I like the way you use language :) Wording is an art form that is rarely practiced well or appreciated. Regardless of my lack of punctuation and grammar allot of my art is both literary and well appreciated by many.

My only biff with this argument is people who "wouldn't talk to that guy because his typing is not precise" or people who detract from a point totally for part-time elitism - thats arrogance thinly veiled by perception. The truth is that almost any sentence can be worded better and then back, english has a wonderful way of totally contradicting itself. It is after all a language that has been in an on-the-fly development perculating over a few thousand years.

I've found in life that a polarised view on anything is a really good way to both look like a dick and miss the point of any argument. Nothing is black and white.

Water boils at 100 degrees (subclause: at standard atmospheric pressure, subclause: if it is allowed to move (see super heating), subclause: depending on the O2 saturation levels, subclause: depending on the water's ionisation, - i am sure i missed something - )

I think the key is a medium between getting your point across (contextually correct) and not breaking the English language as we know it. At the end of the day does it really detract from a message when you use a lowecase i to refer to yourself in a public forum where; people are simply communicating points, interest, banter, waffle and passions?

[MSTRS]

Stop being so reasonable. For (your) god's sake. After all the hard work some of us have put in over the years, and then, in one fell swoop, you go saying it's 'OK'. Where will it all end?

[mister.koz]

Stop being so reasonable. For (your) god's sake. After all the hard work some of us have put in over the years, and then, in one fell swoop, you go saying it's 'OK'. Where will it all end?

Haha fair enough :)

fiNE then.,,,, I reckon uuse guys r too SMart!!!!

('' '' ''''' '' ')

[Edbear]

Stop being so reasonable. For (your) god's sake. After all the hard work some of us have put in over the years, and then, in one fell swoop, you go saying it's 'OK'. Where will it all end?

Oops! Begging your pardon...

Of course it is inexcusable to misspell... By the way, has anyone actually met her?

[MSTRS]

Yea, I did. Once. She was black...

[Edbear]

Yea, I did. Once. She was black...

Did you fall under it?

[MSTRS]

Oh....I see.
You refer to Miss Pell.

[Edbear]

Well, I confess I don't refer to her as much as I used to. As for God, yes, He's a good reference point. Mind you He is often misunderstood and quoted out of context and Miss Pell and Miss Understanding along with Miss Conception and Miss Thepoint have done Him many disservices over the years.

The problems He has had would dissuade me from starting my own religion, far too many dissidents who diss Him...

[MSTRS]

Ms Word must shoulder a share of the blame...

[Edbear]

Yes, and Miss Spell Checker is not referred to often enough, although Miss Translation has often thrown a spoke into the works as well. Fortunately we have the resources of hertofore Miss Ingdocuments who can clarify Miss Conceptions efforts to smudge things.

Ms Word has long been flexible enough to allow Pride and Prejudice to support any view and bend the rules to suit any agenda preferred and it takes a humble person to truly endeavour to find the correct spelling and meaning of Word's word...

[MSTRS]

Yes, and Miss Spell Checker is not referred to often enough, although Miss Translation has often thrown a spoke into the works as well. Fortunately we have the resources of hertofore Miss Ingdocuments who can clarify Miss Conceptions efforts to smudge things.

Ms Word has long been flexible enough to allow Pride and Prejudice to support any view and bend the rules to suit any agenda preferred and it takes a humble person to truly endeavour to find the correct spelling and meaning of Word's word...

Duh! My bwain hurts...

[Edbear]

Duh! My bwain hurts...

:sunny: :innocent: :laugh: :msn-wink:

[smoky]

...As for God, yes, sHe's a good reference point. Mind you sHe is often misunderstood and quoted out of context and Miss Pell and Miss Understanding along with Miss Conception and Miss Thepoint have done Him many disservices over the years....

text taken out of context is pretext

[Edbear]

text taken out of context is pretext

For what..?

[smoky]

For what..?

Just a play on words, an old minister once said; text (being scripture) taken out of context is pretext ( justification of a course of action that may not be sound)

[Edbear]

Just a play on words, an old minister once said; text (being scripture) taken out of context is pretext ( justification of a course of action that may not be sound)

He had a point.

[mister.koz]

Thats a good one :)

reminds me of another:

"If a tree falls in the bush and no one is around to hear it, do the other trees laugh"

[Ratti]

Unfortunately, it appears that one who does endeavour to use correct English or point out said consequences is considered to be stroking his ego, (by some anyway).

hmmm, I recall a postor referring to such as a 'wankfest' in which case would it be fair to say its not the ego that was being stroked?

[mister.koz]

hmmm, I recall a postor referring to such as a 'wankfest' in which case would it be fair to say its not the ego that was being stroked?

:shit: now thats just down right funny :D

[tinkeltoes]

You guys must be those people that send in the corrections to the newspaper. Like those old people up in orewa.

I have always wanted to meet those losers.

[Dave Lobster]

Like those old people up in orewa.



Is 37 old?

[Ratti]

Not to me Darling! I'm 45.
It's just that tinkerbell is a child who is only just learning to type. He knows little and is still at the 'look at me' stage.
O. gosh. Tinkerbell. you. are. so. clever.

*imagine that said in a totally bored monotone*

[Edbear]

You guys must be those people that send in the corrections to the newspaper. Like those old people up in orewa.

I have always wanted to meet those losers.

Hey! I resemble that remark! 'Cept I don't send in corrections to newspapers, I've not got the time nor the inclination, (well I might be inclined at times, but that's usually for another reason...:innocent: Other times I'm reclined...:shifty:)

How old is old, anyway? When I was a kid I couldn't imagine being 40! Now I wish I was...

[MSTRS]

Quick, Ed. Offer the young'un a job, while he still knows everything, and you can get away with youth rates.

[tinkeltoes]

Is 37 old?

Thats not old thats retired

[Edbear]

You guys must be those people that send in the corrections to the newspaper. Like those old people up in orewa.

I have always wanted to meet those losers.


Quick, Ed. Offer the young'un a job, while he still knows everything, and you can get away with youth rates.

Hmmm... Youth rates can work out costly after it becomes apparent the youth does not in fact know much at all... :bye:

I used to tell my son when he was a teenager, that he should leave home and make his own way whille he still knew everything. Funny thing was he left home at 18 and moved into a flat owned by an old couple who adored him and did everything for him including his washing! Wasn't so successful, that idea! :mellow:

He's 36 this year and I think his room is still a mess... At least he's always had a job and doen't ever want to be on the dole.

[mister.koz]

Hey! I resemble that remark! 'Cept I don't send in corrections to newspapers, I've not got the time nor the inclination, (well I might be inclined at times, but that's usually for another reason...:innocent: Other times I'm reclined...:shifty:)

How old is old, anyway? When I was a kid I couldn't imagine being 40! Now I wish I was...

Old is a state of mind, both recieving and accepting :)

[Edbear]

You guys must be those people that send in the corrections to the newspaper. Like those old people up in orewa.

I have always wanted to meet those losers.


Old is a state of mind, both recieving and accepting :)

Ouch! The state my mind's in I'm 103!

[mister.koz]

Ouch! The state my mind's in I'm 103!

hahaha I'm about 25, been there a while its a good age!

[Ratti]

25 really? I can't recall anything particularly wonderful about being 25. 45 is a satisfying age

[mister.koz]

25 really? I can't recall anything particularly wonderful about being 25. 45 is a satisfying age

25 was a good year :)

[Edbear]

25 really? I can't recall anything particularly wonderful about being 25. 45 is a satisfying age


25 was a good year :)

Hmmmm... 25.... I was in Wairakei working at the Steamfield. Had a '52 Wolseley 6/80 and a '70 Holden Premier V8. Oh, and a Tas 60 trail bike! We were both skinny and fit and about to have our third child.

(I could spell then, too...)

[mister.koz]

Hmmmm... 25.... I was in Wairakei working at the Steamfield. Had a '52 Wolseley 6/80 and a '70 Holden Premier V8. Oh, and a Tas 60 trail bike! We were both skinny and fit and about to have our third child.

(I could spell then, too...)

25 i was where i am now, except i was being paid bollocks, in a crap relationship and bored with life as a whole.

(My spelling was at the height of the "word fixes everything for me so i really suck" phaze)

[crazyhorse]

Did you know:

A. That the words "race car" spelled backwards still spells "race car"?

B. That "eat" is the only word that if you take the 1st letter and move it to the last, it spells its past tense "ate"?

C. And have you noticed that if you rearrange the letters in "illegal immigrants" and add just a few more letters, it says:



"Go home you free-loading, violent idiots and take those other hairy-faced, sandal-wearing, bomb-making, goat-loving bastards with you"..

How weird is that ???

[Edbear]

There's no language more flexible than the English language, and nothing on Earth tangles more easily than flex.

[golfmade]

There's no language more flexible than the English language, and nothing on Earth tangles more easily than flex.

Could be why it's so hard to effectively teach.

[pritch]

and nothing on Earth tangles more easily than flex.

I disagree, and generations of piscators will support my assertion that nothing tangles like fishing line.

It's hard believe I'm actually reading this thread, the only excuse I can offer is that I'm on holiday.

Among my pet peeves are the constant confusing of the words infer and imply, although it's pleasing to note that "infer" was used correctly in this thread.

The people with whom I work are mostly required to be qualified either with a degree, or more recently, a diploma. Yet very few seem to know the difference between incidents and incidence. The latter almost always being used when the former would be correct.

On KB though I'm not fussed, as long as the message is clear. If a post is confused or confusing I just move on to the next one.

Must be time for a ride...:scooter:

[Edbear]

I disagree, and generations of piscators will support my assertion that nothing tangles like fishing line.

It's hard believe I'm actually reading this thread, the only excuse I can offer is that I'm on holiday.

Among my pet peeves are the constant confusing of the words infer and imply, although it's pleasing to note that "infer" was used correctly in this thread.

The people with whom I work are mostly required to be qualified either with a degree, or more recently, a diploma. Yet very few seem to know the difference between incidents and incidence. The latter almost always being used when the former would be correct.

On KB though I'm not fussed, as long as the message is clear. If a post is confused or confusing I just move on to the next one.

Must be time for a ride...:scooter:

I stand corrected! Of course you are correct, it's just that it has been a long time since I last went fishing, I had forgotten.

[Marmoot]

Nowadays when I read a post with over 90% correct spelling, I always have the conclusion that the poster is an immigrant.

Incorrect grammers would support the conclusion to a higher degree.

[Edbear]

Nowadays when I read a post with over 90% correct spelling, I always have the conclusion that the poster is an immigrant.

Incorrect grammers would support the conclusion to a higher degree.

Now that one nearly had me stumped! :blink:

[Marmoot]

Now that one nearly had me stumped! :blink:

Spelling error deliberately inserted.

[slofox]

Nowadays when I read a post with over 90% correct spelling, I always have the conclusion that the poster is an immigrant.


I am NOT an immigrant..! :oi-grr:

[Edbear]

I am NOT an immigrant..! :oi-grr:

Me neither! I'm pure bred Kiwi with a mix of English, Scottish, Spanish, Danish and a touch of the Irish. Fourth Gen NZ'r!

[slofox]

Me neither! I'm pure bred Kiwi with a mix of English, Scottish, Spanish, Danish and a touch of the Irish. Fourth Gen NZ'r!

Italian, Irish, Scottish....definitely NOT an immigrant...:rofl:

[Marmoot]

I am NOT an immigrant..! :oi-grr:

Judging by your spelling, mate, you sure are acting like one!

[pritch]

We're all immigrants in this country. The only ones that might not have been were eaten. :devil2:

[slofox]

Judging by your spelling, mate, you sure are acting like one!

Typos don't count! dammit!

[Marmoot]

Typos don't count! dammit!

I was looking at the lack of typos and/or spelling errors in your post.