New Zealand Mums

[Argyle]

Why are New Zealand women completely crazy in being "mums", willing to give up career and social life for kids? You see them on TV all the time, conservative perfect mums.

When you walk down the rows in New World or Countdown they are everywhere, screaming kids. Running around tipping tins and boxes, being let loose like dogs in a park. Some of them scream for 45min and the "mum" she just smiles and think everybody think her little angel is the best.

They are young (the mums), who supports them? I can impossible imagine a guy with a wage of 33K annually can support her and the two kids she already managed to produce on her vague 22yrs.

[Str8 Jacket]

I do like your sweeping generalisations!!

[tri boy]

Sounds like someone got rejected by a solo mum.

[NighthawkNZ]

why is there two threads the same ???

[YellowDog]

I blame the producers of Shortland Street for it all.

[GOONR]

Why are New Zealand women completely crazy in being "mums", willing to give up career and social life for kids? You see them on TV all the time, conservative perfect mums.

When you walk down the rows in New World or Countdown they are everywhere, screaming kids. Running around tipping tins and boxes, being let loose like dogs in a park. Some of them scream for 45min and the "mum" she just smiles and think everybody think her little angel is the best.

They are young (the mums), who supports them? I can impossible imagine a guy with a wage of 33K annually can support her and the two kids she already managed to produce on her vague 22yrs.

You sir, spend way too much time in a supermarket.. 45 mins.

By the way, my missus hasn't given up her social life, my child doesn't run around "tipping tins and boxes" and is not a fucking dog. "who supports them"? In our case that would be me, earning way more than double the 33k you mention.

If you are above supermarkets. containing normal people, buy on-line and get it delivered.

[smoky]

You'll find out one day mate, I realise the real world can be a bit of a mystry to most young fellas

What? raising a family, kids, being in a partnership? yuk - what's all that about, when you've got videos, Utube, beer, motorbikes and the pub

[Virago]

So you're young, you've been in NZ about a year, and you're now qualified to pass judgement on NZ women on the basis of some incredible assumptions made in a supermarket?

Such spectacular arrogance has to be admired. Or something.

[Lilly2w]

I can Impossible imagine how proud your mum must be of you.

[CookMySock]

You see them on TV all the time, conservative perfect mums.No they're not. They have non-conservative feelings and inclinations just like you do. They just don' show them in public for whatever reason - probably because someone might offer some condescending remark about it.


Some of them scream for 45min and the "mum" she just smiles and think everybody think her little angel is the best. Thats not what they are thinking at all. They are quite likely at their wits end, and are doing everything in their power to not whack the kid, because they know thats the right thing to do.


They are young (the mums), who supports them? I can impossible imagine a guy with a wage of 33K annually can support her and the two kids she already managed to produce on her vague 22yrs.Welcome to the real world. Your projections do more to reveal your inadequacies than offer any relevant analysis of anything.

Steve

[GOONR]

This is goonrs Mrs, and I just had to squeeze in a reply since I have finished my housework, but before I organise my weekly social calender. I dont know if you decided in obvious great wisdom to write this bullshit out of ignorance or simply out of arrogance. Clearly no Kiwi girl has secomed to your 'charms' and decided to bear your children, so they obviously have some sense, and god help them if they do, Kiwi girls need Men not Mice. I suggest you get a life before commenting on other peoples life choices, and until you do shut the fuck up.
I write this as my 'fetus' wriggles around frantically in my belly, perhaps my blood pressure is up slightly, heres a new lesson for you, dont fuck women off, especially the pregnant ones

[AllanB]

Uncle Allan says:

It pays to look on the positive side of things.
Consider this - all those young solo mums you are bitching about - at least you know they put-out. Eh eh lad.

And instead of hanging around supermarkets trying to pick them up, just Google MILF and let Mrs Palmer and her five daughters satisfy your needs.

[Timber020]

Why are New Zealand women completely crazy in being "mums", willing to give up career and social life for kids? You see them on TV all the time, conservative perfect mums.

When you walk down the rows in New World or Countdown they are everywhere, screaming kids. Running around tipping tins and boxes, being let loose like dogs in a park. Some of them scream for 45min and the "mum" she just smiles and think everybody think her little angel is the best.

They are young (the mums), who supports them? I can impossible imagine a guy with a wage of 33K annually can support her and the two kids she already managed to produce on her vague 22yrs.

Are you upset you mum didnt give you enough hugs or something? Some people choose raising good kids over buying more toys.

[Trudes]

We have the DPB.

[T.W.R]

We have the DPB.

Diploma in Prodigal Breeding

[CookMySock]

One day, stand in the supermarket (or anywhere) and just look at people. Picture that they have feelings just like you. Some of their feelings are insurmountably large, just like some of yours. Some of these feelings are also irreconcilable, leading to massive stress levels, just like some of yours. Sometimes, their feelings consist of great joys, and they aren't at all interested in hearing about your or my horrible problems.

People aren't products of our thinking - they are products of their own thinking. Crazy isn't it? No one is on the same wavelength as us!

Steve

[Slyer]

He's getting more at the fact that people seem to be having children so early, why don't they wait a bit longer so that they can experience the rest of the world before settling down? This is especially true for the lower earners.
Waiting till your late 20's or later before having kids is excessively logical to me but we must remember that we are built to breed.
Just like men are programmed to want sex all the time, women are programmed to want babies all the time. It's a good, evolutionary trait. Stops us going extinct.
There's your answer.

How old are you and your missus GOONR?

Nice troll, btw.

[Dave Lobster]

women are programmed to want babies all the time.

Not all of them. Some of them have a life of their own.

Which is good. It means they've got something to talk about, other than their generic children. Which are, for the most part, of no interest to anyone but them.

[rachprice]

I don't want babies...ever
Im young and may change my mind (never say never) but right now I have a massive career ahead of me and just no desire to reproduce!

And my social life is pretty sweet

[SS90]

Yes, I think one or two people have jumped a little too hard on the original poster.

Sweeping generalisation? Yes

Accurate?

Equally so.

It very well documented that NZ has a disproportionate number of "solo Mum's", and, so much so that "solo mum", a Kiwi colloquialism, that eventually found it's way into the New Zealand official dictionary.

Basically, we invented our own word for it!

Now, it's also well known that the UK has a high teen pregnancy rate, but, per capita, NZ is higher.

The "sweeping generalisation", has become more of an accurate statement rather than simply a slight on our Nation.

It appears the original poster is not born in NZ (some what less than a year), perhaps it is wise to take this observation
seriously, and not simply dismissing it as "women" or "Kiwi", or (even worse), "Kiwi women" bashing.

I currently live in Europe, but I did spend the first 29 years of my life in NZ, and can relate to this persons observations, and, if you think objectively about it, every single Kiwi can as well.


The OP was not knocking "all Kiwi solo Mum's", but rather a section of the community, that, at a young age (early 20's) have secured themselves 18 years of income.

Which increases if they name the dad.

You can boohoo all you like, but deep down we all know it is true.

We have all seen (and perhaps even know) women who "make a career" from having kids, have never (and will never) have a job, their kids are dirty, poorly educated at home, yet the financial commitment the NZ taxpayer provides them, allows them to have new clothes, bleach for their hair, weed, fags, and "a few bottles of bubbly" in the fridge.

No, I'm sorry, the OP has simply pointed out what we least like to think about.

Crap Kiwi mums, who aren't even old enough the rent a car, and yet raise two kids.

There are plenty of good Kiwi mums, he never said there wasn't!

[oldrider]

Why are New Zealand women completely crazy in being "mums", willing to give up career and social life for kids? You see them on TV all the time, conservative perfect mums.

When you walk down the rows in New World or Countdown they are everywhere, screaming kids. Running around tipping tins and boxes, being let loose like dogs in a park. Some of them scream for 45min and the "mum" she just smiles and think everybody think her little angel is the best.

They are young (the mums), who supports them? I can impossible imagine a guy with a wage of 33K annually can support her and the two kids she already managed to produce on her vague 22yrs.

Because when you get right down to it, theres fuck all else in this world that comes even close! :grouphug:

[Slyer]

Not all of them. Some of them have a life of their own.

Which is good. It means they've got something to talk about, other than their generic children. Which are, for the most part, of no interest to anyone but them.
And not all guys want sex.
Many women, usually intelligent ones (Rach ;)) realize what a burden kids are and decide to postpone having them, perhaps indefinitely. This is because they are able to overcome their programming, or maybe their programming is corrupt? :bleh:

I'm definitely against those solo mums out there that just get out there, have some sex and then pop a few kids out without securing any sort of long term income. They get on the dole.
Of course we(everyone else) want to support these little kids, it's not their fault that their mother is an inconsiderate bitch who desires to bring suffering upon children. Thank god we don't let that happen right?

Ladies. If you want kids get a man, get a good man who is going to support you. If this is hard, lose some weight or get a personality.
Failing that, get a great job so that you can either earn enough to pay for daycare on top of everything else or work part time from home. Ideally saving heavily beforehand.
If you cannot get either of these, DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN.
Bringing a new life into this world that you cannot support is evil. Pure and simple.

Having kids is a privilege, not a right.
The government pays for you not because we support your bad decisions but because we don't want kids starving to death.
Fuck up your own body or your own life but don't fuck up the lives of little kids. We need to break the cycle...

No Plan - No Baby.

[Love my Bonnie]

People always bag solo mums, it really pisses me off.
It takes two to make a baby, so why is no-one bagging the "sperm makers" who run for the hills when their girlfriends get pregnant?
Good on the young mums I say, raising kids on your own is HARD THANKLESS WORK!!!
A young solo mums love their kids no less that anyother mum.
& Yes, I am speaking from experence.

[Dave Lobster]

Is it harsh to say "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em"?

[CookMySock]

People always bag solo mums, it really pisses me off.
It takes two to make a baby, so why is no-one bagging the "sperm makers" who run for the hills when their girlfriends get pregnant?
Good on the young mums I say, raising kids on your own is HARD THANKLESS WORK!!!
A young solo mums love their kids no less that anyother mum.
& Yes, I am speaking from experence.Hrm, perhaps.

The bottom line is, it's their body and their life, and if they want to do that then it's their call. They can say no and they can use contraception, and if they don't want to do that, then they can eat the consequences - thats the way the world goes around and it's no ones' fault but their own. If they are not equipped to deal with said consequences, then that is their choice as well.

Sure, it's a piss off when the male does a runner, but it's pretty clear he didn't think that was part of the deal, and maybe to be fair it wasn't. Different story completely when it's discussed and it is emphatically part of some deal - then doing a runner is just a ripoff.

The main problem with any single parent family, is the whole kid training comes from only one perspective. It's not about who is right or wrong, it's about balance and having middle-of-the-road kids rather than ones with extremes - one way or the other.

Steve

[SS90]

I think that you may be taking it a little to personally,

Kiwi's generalise alot, (actually too much), and I will agree that I have heard the statement "Ah, bloody solo mum's" more than once.

However,

This is simply a poorly worded description of a TYPE of solo mum, opposed to "all" solo mum's.

How so?

Your bleach blonde (re-growth) "Chantel" with her 3 dirty clothed kids, baby in the pram..........actually, god, do I need to go on, you get the picture, and you would be lying if you said you had not seen a similar sight.

Mum's smoking, the kids look like they have worn the same clothes for 2 or 3 days.......these poor kids are simply caught in a trap that the likely hood of them escaping is fairly slim.

This is the "solo mum" that brings out the statement "ah bloody solo mums"

Yes, it is unfair that the majority? of solo mums are indeed living up to their responsibilties, however, we live in a world that such things go unrewarded, and we only see those squandering our resources.

Don't take it personally.

That term is uttered to identify a "type" of single mother, not all.

[Dave Lobster]

The bottom line is, it's their body and their life, and if they want to do that then it's their call.

That would be true if they weren't getting any handouts from the rest of us that live within our means.

Why SHOULD having children and being dependent on welfare be a lifestyle option?

[SS90]

That would be true if they weren't getting any handouts from the rest of us that live within our means.

Why SHOULD having children and being dependent on welfare be a lifestyle option?

Actually, on this I don't agree.

It's not only their body an dtheir lives they are messing with, it's the mind body and soul of the wee kids they have a clear inabilty to raise.

I'm 32, and I went to school with plenty of kids that where raised only by their mums.

I recon that it was about 60/40 (good mums, shit mums).

But, even then, 40% is too much. Hell, 1% is too much.

I sound idealsitic, but hey "think of the kids"

[GOONR]

Goonr has gone to work, but since I have an opinion about this and to answer your question Slyer, I turned 33 last week and Goonr is 40. But irrespective of our real age, he was asked for ID for booze on saturday and people often assume I am in my early 20's when infact I had my first child at 31. If I was plodding around the supermarket in my jeans and a t shirt would I be put in the bracket of low income earner, too young to have babies etc - quite possibly yes. When Infact I have had a career and will do so again once I have had my babes and Goonr earns more than enough. How fair is it to assume that the supermarket mums arent infact just like me and many other mums out there. We dont all have feral children, or bleach our hair. Its a sad fact that these people assume if you are at home with your kids you must bludge of the government or fall into a catgory of which people think you are at the low end of society. Waiting til you are older dosent mean you are safe from the fella running off, marriage break ups, redundancy, your partner passing away, there are a million reasons to find yourself either in the poo financially or without a Mum and Dads support. And Id think those situations make up a generous proportion of the single or no income families that require financial assistance. I know plenty of young Mums and a few solo Mums that do a bloody good job at raising their kids, and its not about having a dad, but family and support. As they say it takes a village to raise a child. Any fool can have a baby, being over a certain age dosent suddenly turn you into a wise old owl that knows how to do this parenting thing, its hard work. I bet youd struggle to find any Mum or Dad that knew exactly what they were in for when the made a decision to keep or plan a baby
People make choices based on the resources they have, unfortunately some people dont have too many options, but who the hell are we to point the finger at say thats not ok

[SS90]

Goonr has gone to work, but since I have an opinion about this and to answer your question Slyer, I turned 33 last week and Goonr is 40. But irrespective of our real age, he was asked for ID for booze on saturday and people often assume I am in my early 20's when infact I had my first child at 31. If I was plodding around the supermarket in my jeans and a t shirt would I be put in the bracket of low income earner, too young to have babies etc - quite possibly yes. When Infact I have had a career and will do so again once I have had my babes and Goonr earns more than enough. How fair is it to assume that the supermarket mums arent infact just like me and many other mums out there. We dont all have feral children, or bleach our hair. Its a sad fact that these people assume if you are at home with your kids you must bludge of the government or fall into a catgory of which people think you are at the low end of society. Waiting til you are older dosent mean you are safe from the fella running off, marriage break ups, redundancy, your partner passing away, there are a million reasons to find yourself either in the poo financially or without a Mum and Dads support. And Id think those situations make up a generous proportion of the single or no income families that require financial assistance. I know plenty of young Mums and a few solo Mums that do a bloody good job at raising their kids, and its not about having a dad, but family and support. As they say it takes a village to raise a child. Any fool can have a baby, being over a certain age dosent suddenly turn you into a wise old owl that knows how to do this parenting thing, its hard work. I bet youd struggle to find any Mum or Dad that knew exactly what they were in for when the made a decision to keep or plan a baby
People make choices based on the resources they have, unfortunately some people dont have too many options, but who the hell are we to point the finger at say thats not ok

I didn't take the OP post to mean "all women with kids at the supermarket are shit mum's", I feel you are taking it personally, perhaps too much so.

[SS90]

Goonr has gone to work, but since I have an opinion about this and to answer your question Slyer, I turned 33 last week and Goonr is 40. But irrespective of our real age, he was asked for ID for booze on saturday and people often assume I am in my early 20's when infact I had my first child at 31. If I was plodding around the supermarket in my jeans and a t shirt would I be put in the bracket of low income earner, too young to have babies etc - quite possibly yes. When Infact I have had a career and will do so again once I have had my babes and Goonr earns more than enough. How fair is it to assume that the supermarket mums arent infact just like me and many other mums out there. We dont all have feral children, or bleach our hair. Its a sad fact that these people assume if you are at home with your kids you must bludge of the government or fall into a catgory of which people think you are at the low end of society. Waiting til you are older dosent mean you are safe from the fella running off, marriage break ups, redundancy, your partner passing away, there are a million reasons to find yourself either in the poo financially or without a Mum and Dads support. And Id think those situations make up a generous proportion of the single or no income families that require financial assistance. I know plenty of young Mums and a few solo Mums that do a bloody good job at raising their kids, and its not about having a dad, but family and support. As they say it takes a village to raise a child. Any fool can have a baby, being over a certain age dosent suddenly turn you into a wise old owl that knows how to do this parenting thing, its hard work. I bet youd struggle to find any Mum or Dad that knew exactly what they were in for when the made a decision to keep or plan a baby
People make choices based on the resources they have, unfortunately some people dont have too many options, but who the hell are we to point the finger at say thats not ok

I didn't take the OP post to mean "all women with kids at the supermarket are shit mum's", I feel you are taking it personally, perhaps too much so.

[CookMySock]

People make choices based on the resources they have, unfortunately some people dont have too many options, but who the hell are we to point the finger at say thats not okThe government removes solo mums' consequences by providing additional resources, so they can move into their own home and then start their own life. The maths is simple - have two kids, get DPB, rent house, send kids out to play, do as they choose. So life might be a little low-quality, but hey ya rolls ya dice and ya pays ya money.

The story would be completely different if they had to live with mum and dad until they could find some way to support themselves (shock horror) or find some bloke with an income who will put up with their poor behaviour, or find some bloke who beat them up while paying the bills.

No one is telling anyone what is ok and what is not. We are passing our opinions back and forth, as friends on some internet site. Relax.

It's about what sort of society we want to live in, and who is going to pay for that. If push comes to shove you better believe the government will tighten its' support for solo mums, so the option is not so readily available.

Steve

[SS90]

who the hell are we to point the finger at say thats not ok

Tax payers, that's who!

[Slyer]

Don't make me agree with you DB, I hate when that happens. :bleh:
Mrs GOONR, my posts are solely directed at the mothers who either don't put any thought into it when having kids or decide that they want to live off the system.

My comments about experiencing the world first are purely personal, I would have kids in my late 20's or early 30's but I can understand that some want kids earlier, that's their choice. So long as they are capable of supporting them financially and mentally. I won't tell anyone how to live their life but I draw the line when they involve their kids.

I'm all for supporting mothers that did the best that they could to provide for their kids but cannot any longer due to circumstances changing, illness and everything else, these mothers deserve our help.

[GOONR]

Im not taking personally as I am neither a solo or a young mum, or a low income earner, but I do have an open mind. I doubt that many people who fit into your category, made a conscious decision to bring up kids on the bones of their arse and stuggle from day to day, both financially and emotionally, and Id rather pay tax for those Mums or Dads to be at home doing their best to raise their babes into stable communtiy minded citizens. I know some of them dont succeed, but alot of people with loads of cash and support fuck it up too. Congrats to you if you have done it all perfectly, feel free to throw stones, lets hope you dont end up in their situation. Anyway I have said my piece and am signing out before this becomes mindless drivel

[CookMySock]

I don't think they are doing their best at all. If they were doing their best, they would have chosen a stable partner, attended to their own poor behaviour, got some training/support, and did copious amounts of sucking their guts in, tightening their belt, and shutting their mouth.

I think they started out selfishly considering their own lifestyle... or rather, thats how they thought it would be... sorry it didn't work out that way and now they have to sell drugs or themselves, but that was their preconceived idea that we all now have to pay for, now become OUR consequence not theirs.

Anyway, there is money to go around at this stage, but I don't think it will always be that way.

Steve

[Love my Bonnie]

DB, I hope you dont have daughters

[Str8 Jacket]

I don't want babies...ever
Im young and may change my mind (never say never) but right now I have a massive career ahead of me and just no desire to reproduce!

And my social life is pretty sweet

I hear ya chick! I am a probably quite a bit older than you and still feel the same way. I would rather get as many years of racing and building my career than reproduce!! I cant imagine making the required sacrifices any time soon either!!

[Ronin]

DB, I hope you dont have daughters

It's ok. If he does, his views will flip flop for them if they ever find themselves in that situation.

There are good parents, there are bad parents. Some are single, some have a partner (loving or otherwise). It is easy to pass judgement based on the 30 seconds you see them at the supermarket. The odds of your judgment of them being correct however is slim. I have delt with solo Mum's who fight tooth and nail to do the best for their kids, on the other hand I have delt with Married Mum's earning more money than I ever see that couldn't care less about how their kids behave.

Take 'em as you find 'em I guess but there is usually more to the story than you can see.

[Howie]

That would be true if they weren't getting any handouts from the rest of us that live within our means.

Why SHOULD having children and being dependent on welfare be a lifestyle option?

Is this comment aimed purely at solo Mum’s (parents)? If so it show's a real closed mind to what can happen in people's lives to change there personal circumstance's. Or is it aimed at the minority of solo parents that struggle with the choice's they have made, maybe through lack of support from family/friends to a situation they find themselves in. is it a lifestyle choice as they don't see other options being viable for them.


Goonr has gone to work, but since I have an opinion about this and to answer your question Slyer, I turned 33 last week and Goonr is 40. But irrespective of our real age, he was asked for ID for booze on saturday and people often assume I am in my early 20's when infact I had my first child at 31. If I was plodding around the supermarket in my jeans and a t shirt would I be put in the bracket of low income earner, too young to have babies etc - quite possibly yes. When Infact I have had a career and will do so again once I have had my babes and Goonr earns more than enough. How fair is it to assume that the supermarket mums arent infact just like me and many other mums out there. We dont all have feral children, or bleach our hair. Its a sad fact that these people assume if you are at home with your kids you must bludge of the government or fall into a catgory of which people think you are at the low end of society. Waiting til you are older dosent mean you are safe from the fella running off, marriage break ups, redundancy, your partner passing away, there are a million reasons to find yourself either in the poo financially or without a Mum and Dads support. And Id think those situations make up a generous proportion of the single or no income families that require financial assistance. I know plenty of young Mums and a few solo Mums that do a bloody good job at raising their kids, and its not about having a dad, but family and support. As they say it takes a village to raise a child. Any fool can have a baby, being over a certain age dosent suddenly turn you into a wise old owl that knows how to do this parenting thing, its hard work. I bet youd struggle to find any Mum or Dad that knew exactly what they were in for when the made a decision to keep or plan a baby
People make choices based on the resources they have, unfortunately some people dont have too many options, but who the hell are we to point the finger at say thats not ok

interesting comments Mrs Goonr, As someone who has been a single parent for the last Ten years since my youngest was 6 years old, I find it good to see that some people out there do realise that things can happen during a lifetime that aren't planned for, and that some people end up needing assistance, not because they want it as a lifestyle choice, but because events in their life have changed the direction of that life. In my case I got very little assistance from outside source's, but was lucky enough that I had a skill set that was needed by my employer and was able to negotiate hours, and times of work. At times I was in arrears to my employer by up to 40 hours, but still got paid and made it up later. If I hadn't had that flexibility it wouldn't have been worth my while to keep working.


I didn't take the OP post to mean "all women with kids at the supermarket are shit mum's", I feel you are taking it personally, perhaps too much so.

I took at as general comment at young women who choose to have a family young, I know some who did, and
are now in established career’s, with the children grown up and left the nest. These woman and their partners are now free to travel, take up any interest's they want at an age where many are still raising teens. What age to have children is an individual choice with your partner hopefully, and having them early, later or in the middle all have advantages and disadvantages.



The government removes solo mums' consequences by providing additional resources, so they can move into their own home and then start their own life. The maths is simple - have two kids, get DPB, rent house, send kids out to play, do as they choose. So life might be a little low-quality, but hey ya rolls ya dice and ya pays ya money.

The story would be completely different if they had to live with mum and dad until they could find some way to support themselves (shock horror) or find some bloke with an income who will put up with their poor behaviour, or find some bloke who beat them up while paying the bills.

I hope the last paragraph is a piss take as NO one should ever have to put up with abuse of any sort. Other than that an interesting concept, except that it would probably lead to another set of problems, due to over crowding of housing, which would result in more medical problems etc.



It's about what sort of society we want to live in, and who is going to pay for that. If push comes to shove you better believe the government will tighten its' support for solo mums, so the option is not so readily available.

Steve.

The problem is that as the support tightens, the options to break out of a cycle become less available, Do you want more crime, violence etc on our streets. What would you see as an answer?



Don't make me agree with you DB, I hate when that happens. :bleh:
Mrs GOONR, my posts are solely directed at the mothers who either don't put any thought into it when having kids or decide that they want to live off the system.

My comments about experiencing the world first are purely personal, I would have kids in my late 20's or early 30's but I can understand that some want kids earlier, that's their choice. So long as they are capable of supporting them financially and mentally. I won't tell anyone how to live their life but I draw the line when they involve their kids.

I'm all for supporting mothers that did the best that they could to provide for their kids but cannot any longer due to circumstances changing, illness and everything else, these mothers deserve our help.

Interestingly enough that is the age I chose to have children, after doing my own thing for a few years, then buying a house, and settling down, but things can change unexpectedly, I for one don't judge someone by weather they have kids, or not at any particular age.



I don't think they are doing their best at all. If they were doing their best, they would have chosen a stable partner, attended to their own poor behaviour, got some training/support, and did copious amounts of sucking their guts in, tightening their belt, and shutting their mouth.

I think they started out selfishly considering their own lifestyle... or rather, thats how they thought it would be... sorry it didn't work out that way and now they have to sell drugs or themselves, but that was their preconceived idea that we all now have to pay for, now become OUR consequence not theirs.


Steve

A rather one eyed view I think, from the number of single parents I know very few if any planned on being a single parent.


It's ok. If he does, his views will flip flop for them if they ever find themselves in that situation.

There are good parents, there are bad parents. Some are single, some have a partner (loving or otherwise). It is easy to pass judgement based on the 30 seconds you see them at the supermarket. The odds of your judgment of them being correct however is slim. I have delt with solo Mum's who fight tooth and nail to do the best for their kids, on the other hand I have delt with Married Mum's earning more money than I ever see that couldn't care less about how their kids behave.

Take 'em as you find 'em I guess but there is usually more to the story than you can see.

I agree entirely Ronin, I have been in a supermarket with my kids after having been on a camping trip for a few days, with no facilities, yep clothes were dirty, I was unshaved, and it was interesting to watch peoples expressions when they looked at us.

[Number One]

So MANY evil bad mothers out there eh?! So easy to feel superior when you have the freedom to imagine all the worst things about strangers based on fleeting interactions.

I'm a bad mother....not because I burden the tax system by being on my own and "bludging" off everyone else to survive and feed my 'offspring' whom I tricked a poor innocent man into giving me :rolleyes:

I'm one of those other demonised mothers....I chose to have a baby and after a year of being at home fulltime committed the ultimate sin of putting him into daycare so that someone else could parent him!!!! Forgive me forgive me

I selfishly chose to both 'be a mother' and 'career woman'....personally I can't imagine being only one of those things now....I also can't imagine just thinking of parenting a child as 'reproducing' either - sounds very scientific and actuaolly gooey :lol: I would have been disinterested too if that (and having my social life impacted) was all it had presented as meaning in my mind :laugh: Might be a good campaign in high schools actually!

Perhaps I'm in the minority but having a kid actually hasn't held me back professionally, I don't aspire to be Director or CE or anything but do make a comfortable salary and have excellent personal freedom, accountability and flexibility...maybe that's more of a reflection of my chosen career but if anything having a kid has forced me to work to secure a balance between my 'work' and my 'life' and that has been nothing but positive all round!

Anywho your thread has made me giggle a bit and I enjoyed reading the responses....btw from now I on I promise to tart my self up whenever I go to the supermarket just for the benefit of local ignoramuses treading up the ladder of inference just like you so clearly enjoy doing...


NOT!!!!!!!! :rofl:

[CookMySock]

I guess we are just all doing our best with what we have. Hey I wish I had the tools I have now 20 years ago! But anyway, here we are today getting on with it and being honest with ourselves.

I haven't done too badly with my kids - a few of you have met them and will know what I mean. I'm tough but not rough on them, and I think they get it. I tell them if they jump down some hole I warned them about, then don't come crying to me - and I think they get that too - personal responsibility starts with real consequences, and they better believe I won't rescue them if they fuck it up irretrievably, coz I won't.

Steve

[Ronin]

I guess we are just all doing our best with what we have. Hey I wish I had the tools I have now 20 years ago! But anyway, here we are today getting on with it and being honest with ourselves.

I haven't done too badly with my kids - a few of you have met them and will know what I mean. I'm tough but not rough on them, and I think they get it. I tell them if they jump down some hole I warned them about, then don't come crying to me - and I think they get that too - personal responsibility starts with real consequences, and they better believe I won't rescue them if they fuck it up irretrievably, coz I won't.

Steve

Parent of the year stuff there steve. It's when they fuck it up irretrievably that you should be there for them. Let them sweat the small stuff.

[Dave Lobster]

I'm one of those other demonised mothers....I chose to have a baby and after a year of being at home fulltime committed the ultimate sin of putting him into daycare so that someone else could parent him!!!!


How on earth is that a bad thing?



I selfishly chose to both 'be a mother' and 'career woman'....personally I can't imagine being only one of those things now....


This is normal all over the world. It's just here, with the women should be in the home backward mentality that is just catching on.

[BiK3RChiK]

The OP is talking about the lifestyle single mums we see and know exist in this country!

I can think of one who lives on our street, who is a career criminal as well, and is bringing her sprogs up to be career criminals. These people have no skills, no bright future. They laugh when your stuff goes missing or gets trashed ( they possibly had something to do with it ) and they don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.

These are the selfish people the OP is talking about..... and yours and my taxes pay for their 'lifestyle'. It's disgusting!

I can also think of the single mum who lived across the road, who went back to school and finished her 7th form year and is currently studying to be a nurse. So she made a mistake but she's not letting that hold her back. The OP is NOT talking about these types of solo mum IMO...

[CookMySock]

Parent of the year stuff there steve. It's when they fuck it up irretrievably that you should be there for them. Let them sweat the small stuff.When people know they can screw up whatever they like and get rescued, what do you think they are going to do? It's the big stuff that shapes their life, so let it shape it, and let it change how they make their next decisions. If it's small enough to laugh off, it won't teach them anything.

I don't think you do anyone any favours by letting them know there are no conseqences. It's not like I'm imposing consequences, I just stand back and watch the natural ones flow. Like my son badly sprained his ankle at soccer yesterday, but he has school athletics day tomorrow and his 1F license test the day after. So I just look at him and nod.. theres fuck all I can do about that. Next time I expect he will think. Thats what life is like, so I just let the life lessons flow. Better he learns it at 16 than at 45.


Steve

[Pascal]

Its a sad fact that these people assume if you are at home with your kids you must bludge of the government or fall into a catgory of which people think you are at the low end of society.

We made a decision that my wife would stay at home with the kids until they were old enough to go to school. With her qualifications and experience she earns just enough to cover their day-care costs, so rather than having her stressed out and working long hours it's better for her to stay at home with them, give them a good early education and the type of love and guidance that only a parent can. When they turn 3 they start to go to daycare for a day or two a week two get used to socialising with other children. Prior to that it is playgroups, etc.

Half of the evenings and over weekends I take over after work, leaving her free to go dancing / out with the girls / whatever, because raising kids is a helluva job.

It has worked reasonably well for us. The amount of love and care she has in her heart means that instead of it being 4 walls, it has been turned into a home and a refuge for all of us. Our kids will grow up well adjusted with, hopefully, a good set of values looking forward.

For us it was a decision. Not some random occurence.


Like my son badly sprained his ankle at soccer yesterday, but he has school athletics day tomorrow and his 1F license test the day after. So I just look at him and nod.. theres fuck all I can do about that. Next time I expect he will think. Thats what life is like, so I just let the life lessons flow. Better he learns it at 16 than at 45.

And the lesson he was supposed to think about was Don't sprain your ankle on purpose when playing soccer?

[Ronin]

When people know they can screw up whatever they like and get rescued, what do you think they are going to do? It's the big stuff that shapes their life, so let it shape it, and let it change how they make their next decisions. If it's small enough to laugh off, it won't teach them anything.

I don't think you do anyone any favours by letting them know there are no conseqences. It's not like I'm imposing consequences, I just stand back and watch the natural ones flow. Like my son badly sprained his ankle at soccer yesterday, but he has school athletics day tomorrow and his 1F license test the day after. So I just look at him and nod.. theres fuck all I can do about that. Next time I expect he will think. Thats what life is like, so I just let the life lessons flow. Better he learns it at 16 than at 45.


Steve

There is a vast difference between screwing up irretrievably and spraining your ankle. One would hope you know the difference.

[CookMySock]

There is a vast difference between screwing up irretrievably and spraining your ankle. One would hope you know the difference.Why? It doesn't affect you, and what you do doesn't affect me. It's only your attempt to put-down on some internet forum, which is all about your character, not mine.

I walk around in public and I see animals. People who can't think and are over-driven by their emotional state to such an extent that they will never think. They want to hit everyone who doesn't think like they do, and make the world a better place by trying to change it so it thinks like them.

Not that it affects me - it's just kinda surreal.

Steve

[crazyhorse]

The real reason he spends 45 minutes in the supermarket, is perving at all these young mothers, wishing he could tip them up and have his way with them :whistle:

[CookMySock]

The real reason he spends 45 minutes in the supermarket, is perving at all these young mothers, wishing he could tip them up and have his way with them :whistle:Things never change do they.. ;)

Steve

[Ronin]

Why? It doesn't affect you, and what you do doesn't affect me. It's only your attempt to put-down on some internet forum, which is all about your character, not mine.

I walk around in public and I see animals. People who can't think and are over-driven by their emotional state to such an extent that they will never think. They want to hit everyone who doesn't think like they do, and make the world a better place by trying to change it so it thinks like them.

Not that it affects me - it's just kinda surreal.

Steve

The question you should ask your self is, "If I am going to post my opinion and or talk about my values in a public forum, what are the possible consequences."

Your opinion of irretrievably screwing up is obviously vastly different to mine. Likewise, even if my son does (and I'm sure that at some stage he will) screw up irretrievably I will be there for him and support him. He will still have to suffer the full consequences and take responsiblity but I could not and would not just walk away shaking my head saying I told you so which, if you read your post, is what you would do.


For the record. I would have exactly the same conversation with you were you standing in front of me.

[Love my Bonnie]

I agree with ronin.
Its called unconditional love, I will always support my kids what ever they do.
We all make mistakes, what we learn from those mistakes is what counts.

[Argyle]

Sensitive subject, probably got some forum readers to bash their keyboards and swear allot about immigrants while the already stained carpet (which we Europeans stopped using 30years ago) got stained a bit more from the coffee that was just dropped.

First of all, I’m a NZ resident, been here for two years. I like NZ, good weather, nice roads to ride on, most people are polite. (Since I’m a NZ resident I probably got a quite good job and qualifications)

I don’t spend 45min in the supermarket, although I do assume some mums they can stay there for 45min.

Mostly I posted the thread because I don’t want the society encourage breeding without thinking.

There is a saying:
If you can’t support it, abort it!

[Dave Lobster]

There is a saying:
If you can’t support it, abort it!

You must spread the rep.. etc.

[Str8 Jacket]

There is a saying:
If you can’t support it, abort it!

There is also a saying that 'some people should keep their opinions to themselves'. You sound like a keyboard warrior with a lil weenie.

[CookMySock]

The question you should ask your self is, "If I am going to post my opinion and or talk about my values in a public forum, what are the possible consequences."There are no possible consequences to someone voicing an opinion. Not your opinion, and not mine. An opinion is simply an opinion. No negative actions can come from an opinion, unless someone takes such an action on the basis of said opinion, but that action is theirs, not mine, along with the associated consequences.

Anyone who reads an opinion and does not attach YMMV gets burned - another harsh lesson learned very quickly. No doubt you have been to a doctor, dentist, or a mechanic, and decided to get a second opinion?


Your opinion of irretrievably screwing up is obviously vastly different to mine. Likewise, even if my son does (and I'm sure that at some stage he will) screw up irretrievably I will be there for him and support him. He will still have to suffer the full consequences and take responsiblity but I could not and would not just walk away shaking my head saying I told you so which, if you read your post, is what you would do.Of course we are completely different people. No, if my kids fell on their face I would be there listening to how they feel, but I would not be undoing the natural consequences that occurred.

My lad bought himself a $7000 motorbike on his 15th birthday and did 15,000kms on it without an incident. From the beginning it was made abundantly clear to him that I had no mechanism by which to save him if he fucked it up. He nods, gets a grip, and doesn't fuck it up, or else he gets to pay off $7000 worth of bent plastic and steel and limp for the rest of his life. I don't protect him and I don't rescue him, and I let him make himself vulnerable and then take ownership of it. The result? Responsibility! (Thats the theory anyway - we'll see what pans out - he's nearly 17 now.)



For the record. I would have exactly the same conversation with you were you standing in front of me.I didn't think you wouldn't. That goes without saying - Never say what you are not prepared to eat.

Steve

[Ronin]

There is a saying:
If you can’t support it, abort it!

Ahhhh, your German then?

[Argyle]

Ahhhh, your German then?

It's quite a guess game on where I'm from!? I'm from the country of Ghostrider

[Love my Bonnie]

no, you're from a counrty of cold hearted judgemental pricks

[MaxB]

It's quite a guess game on where I'm from!? I'm from the country of Ghostrider

Swedish eh? Hows that virtually uncontrolled immigration, out of control welfare state and sky high taxes working out for you?

Bit on the nose for you to bag our systems when yours are none too flash.

[kit]

People always bag solo mums, it really pisses me off.
It takes two to make a baby, so why is no-one bagging the "sperm makers" who run for the hills when their girlfriends get pregnant?
Good on the young mums I say, raising kids on your own is HARD THANKLESS WORK!!!
A young solo mums love their kids no less that anyother mum.
& Yes, I am speaking from experence.


+1. The woman is always made to look bad! The father gets away with it, and gets a life!

[CookMySock]

+1. The woman is always made to look bad! The father gets away with it, and gets a life!Your use of "always" is I think a little optimistic. Stacks of times the father gets a bad deal.

Steve

[PrincessBandit]

There are users in both genders - good women who are taken advantage of by bastards and left coping on their own, and also good blokes who are screwed over by unscrupulous women who use babies/children as some sort of weapon.
I can see the point that the OP is making from one perspective, and personally know young women who are brainless enough to think that "more babies = more benefit". (They never get so far as to think of the long term cost that the child will incur through it's life, or if they do they expect anyone but themselves to bear the cost).

I just see the whole thing as a good reason to avoid sex unless you are prepared to accept the consequences that can come from it. However, that would be a highly unpopular view as that might mean periods of/a lifestyle of celibacy. Gosh, now that would never do!

**sits back and waits for the flaming arrows and pitchforks for her "unnaturalness"**

[Str8 Jacket]

I just see the whole thing as a good reason to avoid sex unless you are prepared to accept the consequences that can come from it. However, that would be a highly unpopular view as that might mean periods of/a lifestyle of celibacy. Gosh, now that would never do!



Personal responsibility? It'll never catch on!!

[slofox]

Geez, Argyle, you are either very brave or very foolish with this post about NZ mothers...you're treading on very thin ice on a subject like that IMO...

Whilst I can see what you are driving at, I also think you are making a very broad generalisation in that you lump all mothers in together. They are, very obviously, not all the same. Your post comes across to me as not being very well thought out. Look more closely and you will find many variations in mothering practices...

[Conquiztador]

Personally I think our Argyle was referring to that section of mothers who fit his description (sometimes I even surprise my self with my cleverness!!!). But considering that his home country has exactly the same issues it is a little of the kettle and pot here.

NZ: "On the Subject of One-parent families
There appears to be a decrease of solo mothers living alone and a corresponding increase in solo mothers living in a multi family situation. There does not appear to be any increasing economic independence on the part of female parents but more a need to combine economic units.

This is not surprising when we look at the income levels of Single Parent Families living in private dwellings; where 48.59 % earn $25,000 or less (2001 Census).

The number of one-parent families with at least one dependent child is projected to increase by at least 28% from 153,000 in 2001 to 196,000 in 2021, although this could be as high as 215,000.

Single parent households will equate to over one third of households with children. So yes if your reading this and your a solo parent you can see you are certainly not part of a small minority. In fact, single parent households are projected to account for 36% of New Zealand households with dependent children by 2021. The actual number of one-parent families is projected to increase to 251,000 in 2021.

Sweden: "De ensamstående föräldrarna utgör en stor och växande andel av den svenska befolkningen. I Sverige finns idag cirka 1,2 miljoner barnfamiljer. De ensamstående föräldrarna utgör ca 26 procent av dessa. (2003)"

Translated: "Single parents make a big and growing part of the Swedish population. Today there is approx 1.2 million families with children. 26% of these are single parents (2003)."

That makes approx 300,000 single parents in Sweden...

So the figures are very similar considering that Sweden has approx double the population of NZ.

[Argyle]

Geez, Argyle, you are either very brave or very foolish with this post about NZ mothers...you're treading on very thin ice on a subject like that IMO...

Whilst I can see what you are driving at, I also think you are making a very broad generalisation in that you lump all mothers in together. They are, very obviously, not all the same. Your post comes across to me as not being very well thought out. Look more closely and you will find many variations in mothering practices...

God must be a sensitive subject, since this thread been on the top ten for three days now. Must be allot of old guys, mums and fathers on this forum.

Of course not all women they're the same, you all know which ones I’m talking about and we all dislike them.

Pisses me off when a fat mum with five kids wanders around on the supermarket, paying her white bread and chips with the money that was suppose to fix that pot hole in the road which made someone crash and get killed.

[crazyhorse]

God must be a sensitive subject, since this thread been on the top ten for three days now. Must be allot of old guys, mums and fathers on this forum.

Of course not all women they're the same, you all know which ones I’m talking about and we all dislike them.

Pisses me off when a fat mum with five kids wanders around on the supermarket, paying her white bread and chips with the money that was suppose to fix that pot hole in the road which made someone crash and get killed.

Another generalisation...........whats with the 'fat' comment. Alot of fat women are actually married.............. to fat men :rofl: Have a look around, you will see.......................... its the skinny ones that appear to not be able to keep a bloke!
[lucky for me I'm in the middle]

[Argyle]

Sweden, we should not even talk about that country, completely useless and out of control.

Anyway, we've all had our say now and there’s no meaning keeping this thread alive anymore....

[SS90]

I think this thread is popular because it is a subject that is close to all our hearts.

It is time for all the world to tighten it's belt, and this is when we all start thinking about how much money goes to those who don't deserve it.

Again,I don't think that people who knock "solo mum's" mean "women who raise children on their own", I think they refer to the "Chloe of Wainuomata" style of bludger.......

[kit]

Maybe it is But most generalizations refer to the mother, not to the father that has abandoned some of them. I'm am a solo mother, I have worked all my childs life supporting her. I don't like the thought of mothers sitting back and getting pregnant whilst they are collecting a benefit, but there are a lot of people whom genuinely need it and its those people we should be caring about, there just needs to be a tougher criteria for people on the benefit so its not getting ripped off.
Yes there are a lot of fathers that get a raw deal too, the whole system needs and overhaul!

[Argyle]

Maybe it is But most generalizations refer to the mother, not to the father that has abandoned some of them. I'm am a solo mother, I have worked all my childs life supporting her. I don't like the thought of mothers sitting back and getting pregnant whilst they are collecting a benefit, but there are a lot of people whom genuinely need it and its those people we should be caring about, there just needs to be a tougher criteria for people on the benefit so its not getting ripped off.
Yes there are a lot of fathers that get a raw deal too, the whole system needs and overhaul!

Work and Income should put up a website where you can report people who rip off the system, anonymous.

They did that back in Sweden and they got 40 000 reports in a day!

[Pascal]

I don't like the thought of mothers sitting back and getting pregnant whilst they are collecting a benefit

I don't like the thought either. But until you enforce sterilisation or abortion would you condemn a child to being hungry? Much as I dislike a beneficiary culture (Not genuine beneficiaries) I'd not want a child to go hungry even if it costs me a few hundred dollars a month.

[kit]

I don't like the thought either. But until you enforce sterilisation or abortion would you condemn a child to being hungry? Much as I dislike a beneficiary culture (Not genuine beneficiaries) I'd not want a child to go hungry even if it costs me a few hundred dollars a month.

I Know, its a hard one with no easy answer.

[avgas]

Nothing wrong with young mums.
Horny little fuckers they are.

[avgas]

Work and Income should put up a website where you can report people who rip off the system, anonymous.

They did that back in Sweden and they got 40 000 reports in a day!
I would pay for that even

[avgas]

There is a saying:
If you can’t support it, abort it!
Ahhhhhh but therein lies the crux of the matter.
How do you teach the unthinking majority?
Its all a matter of perspective you see.

[Dave Lobster]

I don't like the thought either. But until you enforce sterilisation or abortion would you condemn a child to being hungry? Much as I dislike a beneficiary culture (Not genuine beneficiaries) I'd not want a child to go hungry even if it costs me a few hundred dollars a month.

Better to get it adopted to someone that would look after it, than charge people the money to hand out in benefits, surely?

While the wrong people have children, I'm willing to bet that the money we give them is more likely to go on the wrong things (fags/booze/P), rather than on food for the child.

[Slyer]

The totalitarian in me would want prospective parents to be deemed worthy before they may reproduce. Something like a parenting license where you must pass exams and be given clearance to have kids.
Those who get pregnant without authorisation must either have an abortion or get deported.

Think about the wonders this would do for the gene pool, would be paradise. ;)

[Pascal]

Better to get it adopted to someone that would look after it, than charge people the money to hand out in benefits, surely?

While the wrong people have children, I'm willing to bet that the money we give them is more likely to go on the wrong things (fags/booze/P), rather than on food for the child.

Perhaps. Is the answer state enforced control over a parent being able to keep their child? (Don't try to compare this to state intervention in abusive / dangerous situations)

What do you mean with "the wrong people"?

[slofox]

or get deported.

The British tried that with their "convicts"...and we ended up with Australia as a neighbour! :shit:

[XxKiTtiExX]

Huge difference between "breeding for a living" (you know the type where they keep popping out sprogs so that benefit payout rate goes up, meanwhile none of this extra revenue actually gets spent on the kid/s) and a solo parent (mother or father who genuinely gives a shit about the child/children, but due to circumstances needs financial support, wether it is due to a relationship breakdown, death, illness, redundancy, or help so that you are able to study so that one day you are fully capable of being able to support your family).

I know of someone whos partner is currently collecting a sickness benefit, she is able to collect a benefit also (has never worked a day in her life). He's 'far to sick to work' yet manages a fulltime cash job. They have 1 child who is constantly dressed in the same filthy rags that I personally wouldn't even give to my dog to sleep on (and another one on the way mind you). Meanwhile mum spends $400.00 a week on pokies.

(Being a biological parent doesn't make you a good one).

At the same time you can slave your arse off for 10 years, have a baby and the only help you get is 14 weeks worth of a percentage of your weekly wage. Then its expected of you to put the baby into day care where they fail to recieve the most crucial first 3 years of unconditional love and stimulation.

Maybe a few comments in the thread should have been worded differently so that it doesn't come across as though all solo mothers are being labeled as pieces of trash.

[mashman]

The totalitarian in me would want prospective parents to be deemed worthy before they may reproduce. Something like a parenting license where you must pass exams and be given clearance to have kids.
Those who get pregnant without authorisation must either have an abortion or get deported.

Think about the wonders this would do for the gene pool, would be paradise. ;)

Funnily enough that's exactly what they do when you request to adopt a child... I had a good friend in the UK who was trying to adopt and she was put through the ringer for 20 months of form filling and interviews... then the home vists started, no kid as yet, but just to suss out the environment etc...

It's an interesting concept... proving your suitability to be a parent over a period of time... glad it's not though, ida been screwed...

[Slyer]

Funnily enough that's exactly what they do when you request to adopt a child... I had a good friend in the UK who was trying to adopt and she was put through the ringer for 20 months of form filling and interviews... then the home vists started, no kid as yet, but just to suss out the environment etc...

It's an interesting concept... proving your suitability to be a parent over a period of time... glad it's not though, ida been screwed...
Mmmm, why do adopters have to prove themselves but parents don't?

[Dave Lobster]

What do you mean with "the wrong people"?

People like this:



I know of someone whos partner is currently collecting a sickness benefit, she is able to collect a benefit also (has never worked a day in her life). He's 'far to sick to work' yet manages a fulltime cash job. They have 1 child who is constantly dressed in the same filthy rags that I personally wouldn't even give to my dog to sleep on (and another one on the way mind you). Meanwhile mum spends $400.00 a week on pokies.

[Pascal]

People like this...

Fair enough, I could get behind removing kids from those kinds of people.

[mashman]

Mmmm, why do adopters have to prove themselves but parents don't?

Ownership most likely. My Kids, I made 'em... I guess it's bourne of that sort of attitude... That and you can't go to jail for putting your kid in the care of someone else and having that someone else fuck up... with adoption, if you get it wrong, some poor sod is gonna be strung up for that sort of "mistake"... I'm most likely wrong, but believe that it'll be something as pathetic as that...

[PrincessBandit]

Huge difference between "breeding for a living" (you know the type where they keep popping out sprogs ..........
..........(Being a biological parent doesn't make you a good one).
............Maybe a few comments in the thread should have been worded differently so that it doesn't come across as though all solo mothers are being labeled as pieces of trash.

Sentence 1 : Just think of the industry which could be abused by no-hoper women popping out babies for money, not for themselves to keep but basically as surrogates. Yet I would much rather see adoption than "can't support - abort" thinking. Sadly though even babes born and given up for adoption can still end up with a shit life, so I guess it's a hard one to solve ain't it.
Sentence 2 : Spot on - being a biological parent does not make you automatically a "good" one, although 'good' does have varying degrees of goodness. If you are not prepared for the consequences of sex leading to a baby you shouldna be doin it!!! Or if you have to, do it on ya own!
Sentence 3 : I think a fair number of comments have already been made making your point - solo mum does NOT necessarily equate with bad mum.

[avgas]

Nope your all wrong.
We need no hopers, young mums, loser boys, drongo's, fools, idiots, bludgers, pokie addicts, uneducated fools........you get my drift.
How much do you think you would get paid if these members of society did not exist.
Push them under you as you climb on up. Then laugh at them as they become day time tv

[Slyer]

You make a good point. I do enjoy being smarter than average.

[Ronin]

To play Devil's advocate. How many people who would quite cheerfully have the state in one way or another control the ability of people on the benefit to have children were unhappy when, the state told them they how they could or couldn't discipline their own kids? Or how fast they can ride, or where they can pass, or how much ACC they should pay?

Just wondering is all.

[avgas]

To play Devil's advocate. How many people who would quite cheerfully have the state in one way or another control the ability of people on the benefit to have children were unhappy when, the state told them they how they could or couldn't discipline their own kids? Or how fast they can ride, or where they can pass, or how much ACC they should pay?

Just wondering is all.
You mean like now or worse?

[Ronin]

You mean like now or worse?

Anytime. I have any number of people who will attest to me not being fussy.

[Conquiztador]

Just get Nick Smith to set a system in place where a child has to be pre-funded before you can have him/her. I understand that the average cost for a child is $250,000 until they are 18 years old. So if you haven't got that in the bank, sorry you are not having a kid!

[mashman]

To play Devil's advocate. How many people who would quite cheerfully have the state in one way or another control the ability of people on the benefit to have children were unhappy when, the state told them they how they could or couldn't discipline their own kids? Or how fast they can ride, or where they can pass, or how much ACC they should pay?

Just wondering is all.

To play Devil's advocate: What's that got to do with me? But if they ain't earning... they shouldn't be allowed to have children!

Somebody think about the children...

[Number One]

most generalizations refer to the mother, not to the father that has abandoned some of them.

This bit here is the bit that gets me. I am the product of a 'randy old fuck everything that moves without any protection and then fuck off leaving solo mums in his wake'...I refer to him as my sperm donor as that is the most thought he ever gave to any of his 'kids'. In total there are 5 'half-brothers and sisters to four women. He only has any contact with one of them yet he knew about us all and even fucked around our adoptions to the real fathers in our lives.

NONE of the solo mums I know and are friends with are bludging breeding stations. I have only ever 'heard' of these skanks...actually no - check that I recall one...who is now solo but wasn't when I knew her....though clearly she was working on it :rolleyes:

Seriously though - I take my hat off to all the solo mums I know - I fear that I wouldn't have half the strength and persistence of some of them and their kids are better cared for than some kids with two parents!

Reality is that there is scum in all forms - perhaps we should change the direction of the thread and bash some other hated oxygen wasting losers? ;)

[Argyle]

The idea of benefits is that we are all true to ourselves, where everybody does the right thing. I think at some stage this worked in the -50s and -60s but no more, people become greedy, lazy and fat.

As long as my ass is covered it’s all good, we often hear:
- I don't care.

This attitude - I don't care is a pest through society, if we all worked hard, did the right thing then the ones who really did need some help with like a benefit could get it.

In Sweden the welfare was based on one simple saying,
- We believe in a society where everybody does the right thing.....
It's all gone now, and there needs to be a change.

Happening in all the welfare states I'm afraid!
Most terrifying is that the ones who should really not get kids, they are the ones who get them and the people who do the right thing they don’t get a kid because they think it’s too expensive on the household.

[Conquiztador]

Yep. The future is looking bright:

The unskilled lower class are having all the kids...

[Slyer]

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/85714/Idiocracy-Intro.html
Exactly.

[avgas]

The idea of benefits is that we are all true to ourselves, where everybody does the right thing. I think at some stage this worked in the -50s and -60s but no more, people become greedy, lazy and fat.

As long as my ass is covered it’s all good, we often hear:
- I don't care.
This attitude - I don't care is a pest through society, if we all worked hard, did the right thing then the ones who really did need some help with like a benefit could get it.
In Sweden the welfare was based on one simple saying,
- We believe in a society where everybody does the right thing......
Errr just to correct you there. If we all did the right thing. There would be no benefit system.
I have worked with a lot of people that are considered "impeded", and they still can work. So I see no need for a benefit system at all.
Look at India - shit load of people doing ANYTHING they can for work. China is the same.
Having hand me downs never fixes anything. But then again - how do you promote pride in a few million losers.

[Dave Lobster]

how do you promote pride in a few million losers.

Throw them a ball to play with.

[avgas]

Throw them a ball to play with.
Oh that's a bit harsh, in there defence, the ball isn't round - so it does require some skill to use......just not employable skills

[Dave Lobster]

Oh that's a bit harsh, in there defence, the ball isn't round - so it does require some skill to use......just not employable skills

It was a basket ball I had in mind..

[Skyryder]

Spend a day on the busses. Better still get a job as a bus driver. Until then ya got nothin' to complain about.

Mind you there is an alternitive. They are just practising there sports riding attitude.:jerry:


Skyryder

[avgas]

It was a basket ball I had in mind..

Heh reminds me about the failed marketing plan for Nike in India.
"Nike - Just do it" with a photo of MJ
Indians just looked at the Nike rep and asked "Do what?", "What is it I should be doing?"

[freedom-wedge]

There is also a saying that 'some people should keep their opinions to themselves'. You sound like a keyboard warrior with a lil weenie.

grins I,m having hot cross buns today, that did make me smile

[avgas]

There is also a saying that 'some people should keep their opinions to themselves'. You sound like a keyboard warrior with a lil weenie.
Thought you might like these.....
198507198508

[scracha]

They are young (the mums), who supports them? I can impossible imagine a guy with a wage of 33K annually can support her and the two kids she already managed to produce on her vague 22yrs.
That's why they need all us skilled immigrants to pay for all the young sluts mate.