Assaults on police and the penalty thereof

[slofox]

Serious question here for once...

Should the penalty for an assault on a police officer be more than for an assault on any other member of the public?

Part of me can see where this idea is coming from - what police stand for, assault on the rule of law etc etc.

But there is another part of me that thinks the playing field should be level. Graduating penalties by occupation of the victim offends my egalitarian principles. I mean, if the victim was my wife/son/daughter/mother/father etc I would want the perpetrator to be handled just the same as if he/she had assaulted a copper...

If we discriminate for police, should we then discriminate in favour of other essential members of society? And, logically, discriminate against less essential members of society? As in "ahhh, he's only a sickness beneficiary, we'll let the perpetrator off lightly then..."

Your thoughts?

[SMOKEU]

We really should have the death penalty in NZ.

[BoristheBiter]

yes, yes, yes, and yes.

For far too long assaults on anyone have been pushed into the "not that bad" file.
As it stands the highist form of assault (other than with weapons etc) is male assaults female.

It is about time that these fuckers are put away and i don't care if prison doesn't work i don't want this type of person on the streets.

the respect of other people is the main reason we have so many assaults (more than usa per capita).
Have you seen the cops show lately? its all yes sir, no sir because if they don't comply they get shot/tasered so they comply very quickly.

I think all assault should have the same penilty which should be at least 1 year prison.

[Clockwork]

I think all assault should have the same penilty which should be at least 1 year prison.

That's a bit OTT. The Assult offence can be applied to a wide range of actions including (I understand) shaking your fist at someone.

But, I'm not infavour of levels of offence being based upon the victim but rather the effect or harm inflicted/attempted. I think everyone deserves the same level of protection under the law.

[Usarka]

This'll keep morphing so there are different penalties for kids, women (oh wait), elderly, immigrants, bus drivers, beneficiaries, etc until the least penalty is for assaulting a standard issue working white male.

[ckai]

I do see both sides of the argument. I suppose it's the level of authority and respect that should be displayed. For example, should the level of punishment be the same if a 15 year old punched a teacher 5 times than if he punched a fellow student 5 times? Same place, same force. Punching the student reflects lack of respect and deviancy (sp?) where as punching the fellow student would be considered school yard fight/bullying. Which is more despicable? Which, if you heard it on the news, would you "tut-tut" at?

Assault on the law is considered an assault on the country, which used to be really, really bad (the "country" doesn't mean enough anymore).

To be honest I think it should be worse assaulting a cop. We lack respect, maybe this will help remind people. Graduated penalties for all occupations actually undermines respect.

I agree a life is a life and shouldn't be worth any more or any less compared with what you do or what you're worth. But I'm shocked when I hear about scum beating up cops. Similar feeling to when I hear about assaults of old ladies and little kids.

EDIT: haha and based on the above comment, I don't think there should be different penalties based on them. This is based on a respect/authority view.

[BoristheBiter]

That's a bit OTT. The Assult offence can be applied to a wide range of actions including (I understand) shaking your fist at someone.

But, I'm not infavour of levels of offence being based upon the victim but rather the effect or harm inflicted/attempted. I think everyone deserves the same level of protection under the law.

No I don't think it is. "Shaking a fist" is where it started, now we have people just flipping everyone off, spitting, offensive language or behavior.
This now is at the point where something has to be done, the government has to step in and start handing out sentences that mean something but again it will be all hot air and nothing will be done.

[Dave Lobster]

At the risk of turning this into a cop bashing thread (not my intention), I think it would be a dangerous path to go down.

Whilst it is dispicable that there is a general lack of respect for the police now, primarily from the lower forms of life that we allow to breed, the police don't really help themselves.

The 'visible' ones - ie, the ones you meet in the street/pull you over for nonsense 'crimes'/see on the propaganda box on 10/7 or whatever it's called - really don't do the police any favours at all. Too many of them are the ones with the big egos, small brains and a holier than thou attitude.
I realise that not all the police are like that - I liaise with a lot of policemen/women on a daily basis. BUT, the ones you do see out and about do nothing for the reputation as a whole.

A lot of the ones I've met wholly deserve a smack in the gob.

[BoristheBiter]

At the risk of turning this into a cop bashing thread (not my intention), I think it would be a dangerous path to go down.

Whilst it is dispicable that there is a general lack of respect for the police now, primarily from the lower forms of life that we allow to breed, the police don't really help themselves.

The 'visible' ones - ie, the ones you meet in the street/pull you over for nonsense 'crimes'/see on the propaganda box on 10/7 or whatever it's called - really don't do the police any favours at all. Too many of them are the ones with the big egos, small brains and a holier than thou attitude.
I realise that not all the police are like that - I liaise with a lot of policemen/women on a daily basis. BUT, the ones you do see out and about do nothing for the reputation as a whole.

A lot of the ones I've met wholly deserve a smack in the gob.

Then why did you write this?
I hope if you evey need the police you get told to fuck off.

[Swoop]

If a police officer is not in unifom, how does one know that an assault on an officer is taking place?


..until the least penalty is for assaulting a standard issue working white male.
I believe the tax department have exclusive rights on that one.

[Dave Lobster]

Then why did you write this?
I hope if you evey need the police you get told to fuck off.

I doubt there'd be anyone there to tell me to fuck off. Whenever you need a policeman, there's never one around.

On the up side, I take my phone most places with me now, so if I've forgotten my watch and need to know the time, I'm sweet.

[Dave Lobster]

Then why did you write this?
I hope if you evey need the police you get told to fuck off.

I doubt there'd be anyone there to tell me to fuck off. Whenever you need a policeman, there's never one around.

On the up side, I take my phone most places with me now, so if I've forgotten my watch and need to know the time, I'm sweet.

[firefighter]

I think there should be a higher penalty.

Long gone are the days of people listening and respecting what the local bobby says. Long gone is the big hat, the night stick and the uniform which was all a cop needed.

There is obviously a lack of respect for the uniform, and with the need for police to be in dangerous/hostile situations more than anybody, I do think they deserve a little extra backing of the law. If you do'nt want extra harsh penalties, over and above the average assault, do'nt hit the fucken cop, and do what they say! Simple really.

So that's a yes from me. Only because of the fact they need to be in these environments more than the general public, so extra protection is fine with me.



If a police officer is not in unifom, how does one know that an assault on an officer is taking place

So what if you did'nt know it was a cop!? You should'nt be bloody assaulting ANYBODY without reasonable cause (like they raped your mrs/whathaveyou)

If you un-wittingly beat up a cop, well, you reap what you sow there.........

I know it was;nt your intention, but your kinda taking the "criminals have rights" side here.

[Big Dave]

I'd give them fuck-off big guns like in Aus.
Mess with a Cop over there and you bleed.
End of issue.

[freedom-wedge]

Then why did you write this?
I hope if you evey need the police you get told to fuck off.

I think hes trying to bring to light the state of inballance that exists today, there are wise and good police men and women, but many subscribe to the them and us thing also, one thing is for sure they will arrive much faster at a scene where they are already involved, ie and assualt on an officer, than for joe or jane public, just an obsevation, and when you need them you need them, they are required under the law to render assistance even to save us from our selves.

pedro

[freedom-wedge]

I'd give them fuck-off big guns like in Aus.
Mess with a Cop over there and you bleed.
End of issue.

I can see your point big Dave, but it should be different here, in Oz they have a system where you can test the law and get it changed, here we dont have that, I dont think were at the stage where a copper needs to have his hand on his iron just because he wants to ask you a few quiestions, I,m all for them defending them selves however, but look at our own rights regards self protection, and how they have been eroded, you have to walk a fine line, and they should to.

pedro

[Swoop]

So what if you did'nt know it was a cop!? You should'nt be bloody assaulting ANYBODY without reasonable cause (like they raped your mrs/whathaveyou)

If you un-wittingly beat up a cop, well, you reap what you sow there.........

I know it was;nt your intention, but your kinda taking the "criminals have rights" side here.
I was simply wondering about the 14yr old kid who came to the assistance of the off-duty officer in Tuakau. He had no idea that the guy was a cop.

Correct, people shouldn't be assaulting anyone. I have come to the assistance of an officer struggling with someone on the side of the motorway, so I'm not taking the "criminal rights" approach here.

If the powers that be wish to instigate a higher penalty for assaulting a policeman, then they had better specify that the officer must be in uniform.

[BoristheBiter]

I think hes trying to bring to light the state of inballance that exists today, there are wise and good police men and women, but many subscribe to the them and us thing also, one thing is for sure they will arrive much faster at a scene where they are already involved, ie and assualt on an officer, than for joe or jane public, just an obsevation, and when you need them you need them, they are required under the law to render assistance even to save us from our selves.

pedro

I had sort of guessed that was what he was meaning but with all this belly aching about this "there are god cops and bad cops" shit i have just about had enough.
What everyone fails to realise is that most cops deal with bad people all day long, and most people think a bad cop is one that gives them a ticket for speeding.
Some say it is the job they are paid to do and in some that is true, so if they are paid to give some one a ticket for speeding why does that make them a bad cop they are just doing their job.

[freedom-wedge]

I was simply wondering about the 14yr old kid who came to the assistance of the off-duty officer in Tuakau. He had no idea that the guy was a cop.

Correct, people shouldn't be assaulting anyone. I have come to the assistance of an officer struggling with someone on the side of the motorway, so I'm not taking the "criminal rights" approach here.


If the powers that be wish to instigate a higher penalty for assaulting a policeman, then they had better specify that the officer must be in uniform.

I think it would be just to hard to do that, they could change the law, so that as soon as they identified themselves as police a sterner line could be taken, but it would be open to abuse, i,m for the law protecting us all equally, not laws for police that differe from the those for the public

pedro

Good on ya for jumping in and helping that copper, thats the ballance we need not a them and us scenario

[CookMySock]

I think the police should be able to do their job without worrying about getting the smash. They aren't the military and we don't want them to be, so yes I suggest the penalty should be greater than for an assault on an ordinary citizen.

However,many of the cops have the knack of walking into a volatile situation and winding peoples' feelings up until someone makes an angry remark to them, and taking umbrage at that remark, and then provoking the situation further, and lo and behold they get a whack in the fucken head.

There is also the situation where bent cops rort the system to get what they want, or rather, get off what they want.

So there are two sides - one where they should be afforded respect because of the position they purport to carry (assisting the community) and two where a few of them just seem to want to pick fights.

So they have a problem and they want to fix it with legislation - whats new? :yawn:

Steve

[freedom-wedge]

I had sort of guessed that was what he was meaning but with all this belly aching about this "there are god cops and bad cops" shit i have just about had enough.
What everyone fails to realise is that most cops deal with bad people all day long, and most people think a bad cop is one that gives them a ticket for speeding.
Some say it is the job they are paid to do and in some that is true, so if they are paid to give some one a ticket for speeding why does that make them a bad cop they are just doing their job.

totally agree with you on that

pedro

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Well said Boris & Pedro, couldn't agree more.

[CookMySock]

most people think a bad cop is one that gives them a ticket for speeding [...] if they are paid to give some one a ticket for speeding why does that make them a bad cop they are just doing their job.Having been on the receiving end of the police, I can assure you that is not the complaint at all.

A fair ticket is a fair ticket, even if it doesn't feel fair. I have no problem with this. If grippers can't afford to be an arse on the road then they should slow down.

This is not a thread about poorly behaving police, so lets not make it into one. Start another thread.

Steve

[Ixion]

I'd give them fuck-off big guns like in Aus.
Mess with a Cop over there and you bleed.
End of issue.

Ah. So the answer to violence is more violence. And the guy who shoots first wins. Way to go.



I hope if you evey need the police you get told to fuck off.


Every time over the years when I've needed the cops (and a couple of times, I really needed them) I have been told to fuck off. So now I don't rely on them at all. They're not there to help ordinary people.

The problem isn't assaults on cops. That's just the inevitable result of a society that condones assault and violence generally. OK, a lot of that is down to the courts, whose mickey mouse sentences have for decades sent the message that giving people the bash is fine. So why not cops? How can it be a trivial misdemeanour to bash up the old lady (or old man) next door, but a serious offence to bash up a cop?.

Regardless of the failings of the judiciary, however, it's a bit hypocritical of the police to be complaining, when they themselves are part of the "violence is OK message". Their latest initiative , they don't even want to charge violators. Just give them a warning.

By all means, crack down on violence. But don't make some people into a priviledged elite. Because the counter side of that is that other people are deemed less worthy. Bash a cop? Oh, that's serious. Bash an old age pensioner? Oh, they're an inferior class, no penalty for bashing them, go right ahead. Justice is always shown blindfolded for a reason.

[Winston001]

There already exists an offence of "Assault upon a police officer in execution of his duty". From memory, the officer has to identify himself if in plain clothes. The proposal is that the maximum penalty be increased to 7 years and put on the Three Strikes list of serious offences.

The other proposal is that the offence be extended to all law enforcement personal, emergency services people, and possibly medical staff. So you'd have customs officers, firemen, ambos, and nurses etc given extra value by society. Works for me.

[Dave Lobster]

The other proposal is that the offence be extended to all law enforcement personal, emergency services people, and possibly medical staff. So you'd have customs officers, firemen, ambos, and nurses etc given extra value by society. Works for me.

That's a lot of people. Can the rest of us have a yellow star to wear, to identify ourselves to the more important?

[mashman]

Can the rest of us have a yellow star to wear, to identify ourselves to the more important?

eeeeeeeeek...



The other proposal is that the offence be extended to all law enforcement personal, emergency services people, and possibly medical staff. So you'd have customs officers, firemen, ambos, and nurses etc given extra value by society. Works for me.


That in itself would create a double standard... extra privileges for being on duty... but off duty... just the same as any other person... I can't see it working for some reason.

I would advocate the loosening of the law when it comes to self-defence for someone who works for the emergency services... i.e. they should be allowed to render someone unconscious, or use minimal? excessive force without having to go through the investigation ringer... I'd also like to see that sort of leniency given to teachers too.

[Mikkel]

Yes, assault on a policeman or policewoman while on duty - and provided that the officer in question is acting in accord with the police's powers and duties - should bring a higher punishment than a similar assault on a normal citizen.

If the cop is off-duty or behaving in an inappropriate manner there should be no such distinction.

E.g. If you were to have an altercation with a cop in relation to resisting an unlawful arrest, there should be no extra consideration given to the cop.

[imdying]

Sure, give them guns, that'll reduce the number of officers getting the bash. It won't however get to the core of the problem, so unless you're planning on letting Joe Bloggs carry and conceal, it won't help him.

[Big Dave]

>>So the answer to violence is more violence.<<

Yes.
Orwell may or may not have said: People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Regardless of who uttered it - they didn't have to deal with 'P' rage, Youth alcoholism and the current set of assault circumstances.

It's not 1965 any more, Dorothy.

[BoristheBiter]

>>So the answer to violence is more violence.<<

Yes.
Orwell may or may not have said: People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Regardless of who uttered it - they didn't have to deal with 'P' rage, Youth alcoholism and the current set of assault circumstances.

It's not 1965 any more, Dorothy.

yep i agree if someone has a stick, get a bigger stick.

[Murray]

And what about harsher sentences for police assaulting citizens

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/3362880/Punched-by-a-cop-ndash-woman-player

The whole contry is going mad!!!

[BoristheBiter]

And what about harsher sentences for police assaulting citizens

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/3362880/Punched-by-a-cop-ndash-woman-player

The whole contry is going mad!!!

there allready is.
the contry went mad when they voted in labour for so long, now see what they've done.

[Toaster]

yes, yes, yes, and yes.

For far too long assaults on anyone have been pushed into the "not that bad" file.
As it stands the highist form of assault (other than with weapons etc) is male assaults female.

It is about time that these fuckers are put away and i don't care if prison doesn't work i don't want this type of person on the streets.

the respect of other people is the main reason we have so many assaults (more than usa per capita).
Have you seen the cops show lately? its all yes sir, no sir because if they don't comply they get shot/tasered so they comply very quickly.

I think all assault should have the same penilty which should be at least 1 year prison.

I know from experience that this is not a penalty issue but the application of that penalty in sentencing. Yes both assaults on civilians and police should BOTH be dealt with more harshly. Problem is so many get a slap on the hand with a small fine or community based punishment instead of any jail time. Way too little for the victim and not enough compensation either.

Jail terms need to be more than just set as maximums, but to be applied at a rate and measure that society expects, and no longer as the rule of precident has dictated.

[BoristheBiter]

I know from experience that this is not a penalty issue but the application of that penalty in sentencing. Yes both assaults on civilians and police should BOTH be dealt with more harshly. Problem is so many get a slap on the hand with a small fine or community based punishment instead of any jail time. Way too little for the victim and not enough compensation either.

Jail terms need to be more than just set as maximums, but to be applied at a rate and measure that society expects, and no longer as the rule of precident has dictated.

The one that always has got me is how a dotty old JP still living in the 1960's can hand down a sentance with no law quals.
Yes i know this is a bit harsh on all JP's but when you see someone who has spent the night in hospital because of being bashed, have to sit through a court case and the offender getting 10 hours comunity service you see what a complete joke it all is.

[Toaster]

>>So the answer to violence is more violence.<<

Yes.
Orwell may or may not have said: People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Regardless of who uttered it - they didn't have to deal with 'P' rage, Youth alcoholism and the current set of assault circumstances.

It's not 1965 any more, Dorothy.

Sadly this is true and inevitable. It's a very thin blue line and they perform a role many here would not wish to do. They need to tools to do the job we need them doing and the legislation and court enforced punishments to support that.

[SMOKEU]

I know from experience that this is not a penalty issue but the application of that penalty in sentencing. Yes both assaults on civilians and police should BOTH be dealt with more harshly. Problem is so many get a slap on the hand with a small fine or community based punishment instead of any jail time. Way too little for the victim and not enough compensation either.

Jail terms need to be more than just set as maximums, but to be applied at a rate and measure that society expects, and no longer as the rule of precident has dictated.

Most of the time the offender will just plead 'not guilty' and get away with it. I know how it feels.

[boman]

We really should have the death penalty in NZ.

I agree with this. Or life imprisonment should be life, without parole.

But then I could be biased.

[BoristheBiter]

I agree with this. Or lefe imprisonment should be life, without parole.

But then I could be biased.

Or just a bad speller, but your avatar does put you off:shit:

[SPman]

We lack respect, maybe this will help remind people.Is that the same as training a dog - it doesn't respect you so you beat the shit out of it some more, so it will? Normally results in a cowed dog, that will bite you the first chance it gets.
Respect is something that is earned by your actions and is a 2 way street!

In WA there is now mandatory imprisonment for serious assaults on police and ambo's - but not on OAP's or other members of the community and this in the light of more and more dodgy policing over here......

[BoristheBiter]

Is that the same as training a dog - it doesn't respect you so you beat the shit out of it some more, so it will? Normally results in a cowed dog, that will bite you the first chance it gets.
Respect is something that is earned by your actions and is a 2 way street!

In WA there is now mandatory imprisonment for serious assaults on police and ambo's - but not on OAP's or other members of the community and this in the light of more and more dodgy policing over here......

There should be mandatory imprisonment for all serious assaults no matter who it is.
As for respect you are right but most of these wankers don't respect themselves, so will never respect anyone.

[davereid]

What a load of bollocks.

Of course police should be able to go to work without being bashed or killed.

But so should dairy owners, taxi drivers and everyone else, who actually die much more regularly than policemen.

The difference is ...

The policeman is trained
The policeman has a baton, pepper spray, a taser, often a firearm and handcuffs
The policeman will be backed up by other policemen.

Joe Citizen in his bottle store has none of that, in fact he's not allowed to have any self defence tools.

And the G'mint will conclude that the solution to murders in suburban bottle stores is to close the bottle stores.

The penalties for crime should depend on the circumstances, and the amount of violence. Not on who gets the bash.

[freedom-wedge]

What a load of bollocks.

Of course police should be able to go to work without being bashed or killed.

But so should dairy owners, taxi drivers and everyone else, who actually die much more regularly than policemen.

The difference is ...

The policeman is trained
The policeman has a baton, pepper spray, a taser, often a firearm and handcuffs
The policeman will be backed up by other policemen.

Joe Citizen in his bottle store has none of that, in fact he's not allowed to have any self defence tools.

And the G'mint will conclude that the solution to murders in suburban bottle stores is to close the bottle stores.

The penalties for crime should depend on the circumstances, and the amount of violence. Not on who gets the bash.

These points are missed by most people, well said, if you apply simple logic, the solutions are more easily brought about, we all need protection at times and it should not matter whos who,

a system way out of ballance favours its own at the expense of those it should serve thats my quote for today

keep up the good work Mr Reid

pedro

[Winston001]

What a load of bollocks.

Of course police should be able to go to work without being bashed or killed.

But so should dairy owners, taxi drivers and everyone else, who actually die much more regularly than policemen......


The penalties for crime should depend on the circumstances, and the amount of violence. Not on who gets the bash.

You overlook the fact that it is a police officer's duty to actively put himself in the way of harm. The average citizen - cabbie, shopkeeper - can rightfully run away, they aren't employed to intervene in assaults and criminal behaviour. Ambulance and firefighters also put themselves in dangerous situations to save people. Sometimes they get assaulted by angry friends of people on the scene - they should be recognised by the law for the extra risk they face.

A few years ago ambos etc were physically prevented from working on a two vehicle accident scene involving a Mongrel Mob car. The Mob guys were pissing on the bodies of the people (non-Mob) in the other car.......

[slofox]

Joe Citizen in his bottle store has none of that, in fact he's not allowed to have any self defence tools.



slofox, in his bottle store, keeps a piece of pipe behind the counter. Any little bugger pointing a knife at him will need to get past that pipe first. And fuck the consequences of self defence.

[Usarka]

You overlook the fact that it is a police officer's duty to actively put himself in the way of harm. The average citizen - cabbie, shopkeeper - can rightfully run away, they aren't employed to intervene in assaults and criminal behaviour. .

I'd suggest a shitload of victims of serious assault didn't have the option of running away.

Cops however are often going into a situation knowingly, and do have the option of calling for reinforcements or employing weapons and/or training.

[peasea]

While there is the smallest inkling of sympathy in my mind for cops who get bashed trying to do the 'right thing' there is an overwhelming sense of 'who gives a fuck' for the gung-ho attitude of many cops. They think they're god, indestructable and ten-foot tall. Pity that reality bites.

"Oh look, a band of youths having some biffo, I'll wade in with my larger than life persona and sort that out toot sweet."

"Fuck off, ya knob, we're gonna kick ya head in."


There appears to be a fine line between knob and hero and while I don't condone the actions of the attackers I would have thought it prudent to make a call or two before playing ref' in a street brawl. Mind you, 'gung-ho' seems to be the call of the Bluebottle Brigade of late.

Perhaps the (out of uniform, off-duty) cop had been having a tipple with a pilot and wasn't thinking straight.

[Toaster]

While there is the smallest inkling of sympathy in my mind for cops who get bashed trying to do the 'right thing' there is an overwhelming sense of 'who gives a fuck' for the gung-ho attitude of many cops. They think they're god, indestructable and ten-foot tall. Pity that reality bites.

"Oh look, a band of youths having some biffo, I'll wade in with my larger than life persona and sort that out toot sweet."

"Fuck off, ya knob, we're gonna kick ya head in."


There appears to be a fine line between knob and hero and while I don't condone the actions of the attackers I would have thought it prudent to make a call or two before playing ref' in a street brawl. Mind you, 'gung-ho' seems to be the call of the Bluebottle Brigade of late.

Perhaps the (out of uniform, off-duty) cop had been having a tipple with a pilot and wasn't thinking straight.

Based on the facts presented in the media (partial and incomplete) it didn't seem to be his best move to jump into a group fight without on duty backup on the way.... (then again they may have been called). Irrespective of his attitude, which is unknown to us, it was not a beating anyone - cop or not - deserved. He is lucky to be alive.

[BoristheBiter]

While there is the smallest inkling of sympathy in my mind for cops who get bashed trying to do the 'right thing' there is an overwhelming sense of 'who gives a fuck' for the gung-ho attitude of many cops. They think they're god, indestructable and ten-foot tall. Pity that reality bites.

"Oh look, a band of youths having some biffo, I'll wade in with my larger than life persona and sort that out toot sweet."

"Fuck off, ya knob, we're gonna kick ya head in."


There appears to be a fine line between knob and hero and while I don't condone the actions of the attackers I would have thought it prudent to make a call or two before playing ref' in a street brawl. Mind you, 'gung-ho' seems to be the call of the Bluebottle Brigade of late.

Perhaps the (out of uniform, off-duty) cop had been having a tipple with a pilot and wasn't thinking straight.

I guess in your case there is no fine line you are a complete nob because you would never be anyone's hero.

[Dave Lobster]

I guess in your case there is no fine line you are a complete nob because you would never be anyone's hero.

Nowadays, 'heroes' are sports personalities, and their celebrity ilk, rather than people of value.

I'd gladly not be a hero.

[peasea]

I guess in your case there is no fine line you are a complete nob because you would never be anyone's hero.

And you say this because?

[peasea]

Nowadays, 'heroes' are sports personalities, and their celebrity ilk, rather than people of value.

You're right on the money there and let's count up the number of times these new-age heroes (who are supposed to be role models) are found guilty of things like bashing their wives/partners, getting into drunken brawls in bars, drink driving, drug abuse or being involved in some sort of fraud scheme. I don't recall Charles Upham, Keith Park, Ernest Rutherford or Ed Hillary being involved in such antics. Good point DL.

[BoristheBiter]

And you say this because?

looking at this and other posts that you have written, this seems to be the persona you are displaying. if it is wrong then you might want to look at your posts.

[Winston001]

You're right on the money there and let's count up the number of times these new-age heroes (who are supposed to be role models) are found guilty of things like bashing their wives/partners, getting into drunken brawls in bars, drink driving, drug abuse or being involved in some sort of fraud scheme. I don't recall Charles Upham, Keith Park, Ernest Rutherford or Ed Hillary being involved in such antics. Good point DL.

Mmmm......there are 10,000 police officers in NZ so the odds are a few of them will fail from time to time. To be honest, I can't even remember recent cases of police officers doing what you allege. There were the famous cases involving Rickards, Schollum et al and the guy who faked Reservoir Dogs torture but little else.

I suggest that if you really want a group to rail against with contempt then you need look no further than the directors of the recently failed finance companies including Blue Chip. These people still live wealthy lifestyles while many of their investors lost their life savings. The harm these cretin con-men have done to our elderly is incomprehensible. Simply evil.

[peasea]

looking at this and other posts that you have written, this seems to be the persona you are displaying. if it is wrong then you might want to look at your posts.

What's wrong with them?

[peasea]

Mmmm......there are 10,000 police officers in NZ so the odds are a few of them will fail from time to time. To be honest, I can't even remember recent cases of police officers doing what you allege. There were the famous cases involving Rickards, Schollum et al and the guy who faked Reservoir Dogs torture but little else.

I suggest that if you really want a group to rail against with contempt then you need look no further than the directors of the recently failed finance companies including Blue Chip. These people still live wealthy lifestyles while many of their investors lost their life savings. The harm these cretin con-men have done to our elderly is incomprehensible. Simply evil.

You're not wrong, they should be strung up and their assets sold to repay (some) of what investors lost.

[scumdog]

I'd give them fuck-off big guns like in Aus.
Mess with a Cop over there and you bleed.
End of issue.

Damn right, I like your style!

[meteor]

.... They think they're god, indestructable and ten-foot tall.
"Oh look, a band of youths having some biffo, I'll wade in...
Mind you, 'gung-ho' seems to be the call of the Bluebottle Brigade of late.

You've made it pretty clear that you've struck some bad apples... they're not all like that... and to be fair most have a sense of duty to do the right thing and have taken an oath to uphold the law regardless of fear or favour which doesn't stop at 4pm when the office closes. This guy tried to do that what was right and some little fuck hit him from behind then they all waded in... gutless wee mongrels... and I'd bet they'd be the same ones who'd be the first to ring if life wasn't going their way! Should we take it as a lesson that we should all stand back and not at least try to take some responsibility for our own neighbourhoods and expect the police not to either... if so then we surely have lost. In my mind he was being heroic and the gutless wee fuckers should be erased from the gene pool!

[peasea]

You've made it pretty clear that you've struck some bad apples...

Ya think?

I haven't condoned the attacker's actions. Just trying to draw awareness to the fact that gung-ho actions by individuals often end in tears, uniform or nay. I still say wading in without backup wasn't the guy's smartest move. Never said his intentions were not honourable. Honourable/smart? Where are my scales?

[peasea]

Damn right, I like your style!

If you get one I want one too.

Then what?

[Big Dave]

Go ahead. Make his day.

[peasea]

Go ahead. Make his day.

Whose? Mine or Scummy's?

[SixPackBack]

If you get one I want one too.

Then what?

Escalation?.........Yup many will see it that way, and for what? Regardless of the amount of armament available to the coppers there will always be some psycho willing to bite a coppers lip off for no apparent reason.

An argument could be forwarded that more coppers will die when carrying guns and not less. I would be willing to stake my life on that bet-that in 5 years after full and constant gun carrying [i.e every copper carrys a side arm, visible and constant], more coppers will die. [look to the USA for confirmation!]

Treating crimes against the police differently is a dangerous legal precedent, one that will end in tears. We all have risks in our daily work, the police are no different.

[chucky19]

I haven't condoned the attacker's actions. Just trying to draw awareness to the fact that gung-ho actions by individuals often end in tears, uniform or nay. I still say wading in without backup wasn't the guy's smartest move. Never said his intentions were not honourable. Honourable/smart? Where are my scales?

Smart or not, the guy was duty-bound by his occupation and a pledge he took to Queen and Country to do so, on duty or off duty.

And what would be the headlines if he stood by and watched one of the poor little darlings suffer serious injury or death?

In hindsight it turned out that trying to sort it out wasn't the best option, just like waiting for full reinforcements at Edgeware Rd wasn't the best, but they don't supply crystal balls along with the tasers.

It strikes me that 99.9% of the police haters on this site wouldn't make a cop's asshole.

Double the penalty for assaulting police - you cannot have order without fear of authority.

[Love my Bonnie]

I live just out of Tuakau & know the copper who was bashed. He's a nice guy, its a bloody shame really.
But I have to say it was only a matter of time before something like that went down here.
Over the last year there has been a big increase around town of little gangstas (they call themselves SCG, I think it stands for Soft Cock Gang)
The roam the streets at night, intimidate locals , drink in the park & smash bottles everywhere. Lots of little fights.
We, as locals, could see trouble brewing, I'm not sure why the local coppers couldnt.
And now there are cops EVERYWHERE in Tuakau, I got stopped twice in town yesterday.

[Big Dave]

One of the most pressing issues is in health at the moment is not publicised much - but it's Dementia care.
You know, when Grandma goes gaga. Poor old dear. The problem isn't due to the baby boomer old age 'bubble' - that will be a real crisis in 5 years.
It's the difficulty placing long term P addicts and their jellied brains into care. After enough time on the glass pipe, dribbling out of the sides of their mouth and thrashing about is about all they can do.
You also know where they send these sad cases because they qualify medically as Demented? Old Age Home Dementia Units.
The problem is before they become incontinent and dribble - they 'can' get very, very angry, very violent and completely mad.

And we give the people on the front line protecting us from these nutters a stab vest?

[red mermaid]

Don't how you the hell you work that out with your eminent qualifications as a KB bush lawyer.

If you knew anything about the law you would know that there is already offences that are particular to certain victim groups, such as Assault on a child or a woman.




Escalation?.........Yup many will see it that way, and for what? Regardless of the amount of armament available to the coppers there will always be some psycho willing to bite a coppers lip off for no apparent reason.

An argument could be forwarded that more coppers will die when carrying guns and not less. I would be willing to stake my life on that bet-that in 5 years after full and constant gun carrying [i.e every copper carrys a side arm, visible and constant], more coppers will die. [look to the USA for confirmation!]
Sans MS]
Treating crimes against the police differently is a dangerous legal precedent, one that will end in tears. We all have risks in our daily work, the police are no different.[/B]

[SixPackBack]

Don't how you the hell you work that out with your eminent qualifications as a KB bush lawyer.

If you knew anything about the law you would know that there is already offences that are particular to certain victim groups, such as Assault on a child or a woman.



[/B]

.........Women and children are arguably less able to look after themselves. Using them as an example to change the law would see crimes against the coppers recieving lesser convictions and not more, after all the coppers are better equiped to look after themselves than the general public are they not?

[Dave Lobster]

An argument could be forwarded that more coppers will die when carrying guns and not less. I would be willing to stake my life on that bet-that in 5 years after full and constant gun carrying [i.e every copper carrys a side arm, visible and constant], more coppers will die. [look to the USA for confirmation!]



Why use america for the example? There's plenty of other countries whose police force are all armed. Countries that aren't full of retarded gung ho vermin. Do THEY have the same problem as the america?


And what would be the headlines if he stood by and watched one of the poor little darlings suffer serious injury or death?


They would be tomorrow's chip wrappings.


Smart or not, the guy was duty-bound by his occupation and a pledge he took to Queen and Country to do so, on duty or off duty.

If you want to harp back to his basic training, he'll also have been taught the first rule of first aid. Don't become a casualty yourself.



Double the penalty for assaulting police - you cannot have order without fear of authority.

What fucking rubbish. Of course you can. What you can't have law and order without is the general population having enough respect for the force policing. We have policing by consent in this country. There aren't anywhere near enough police officers here, and there never will be, to have policing by fear of authority. And there is no need for it anyway.

[peasea]

you cannot have order without fear of authority.

That's bollocks. I think the word you're looking for is 'respect'.

Respect is earned and no amount of legislation will change that.

[peasea]

If you want to harp back to his basic training, he'll also have been taught the first rule of first aid. Don't become a casualty yourself.


Kinda what I was trying to say, thank you.

[peasea]

We all have risks in our daily work, the police are no different.[/FONT]

Although most jobs have fewer risks attached, you have to agree, but to don the uniform is accept those risks.

[Winston001]

There is already a specific offence for assaulting a police officer. Its a done deal. The debate is whether the maximum penalty should be increased to 7 years.

The other question is whether the offence should be extended to emergency services workers like ambos.

[jahrasti]

Ya think?

I haven't condoned the attacker's actions. Just trying to draw awareness to the fact that gung-ho actions by individuals often end in tears, uniform or nay. I still say wading in without backup wasn't the guy's smartest move. Never said his intentions were not honourable. Honourable/smart? Where are my scales?

How do you know that he is gung ho? Many smaller Districts/Towns often might not have back up to help the officer. Hindsight is great and I bet the officer involved if he had known the risks would not have maybe stepped in, hey maybe he he still would have jumped in who knows.


It would take a special type of person and I don't necessarily a good person to stand by and do nothing Police or not.

[slofox]

And what would be the headlines if he stood by and watched one of the poor little darlings suffer serious injury or death?


Dunno about the headlines but I'd've given him a medal for culling out a reject...or perhaps I should say allowing a reject to self-cull...

[SMOKEU]

Over the last year there has been a big increase around town of little gangstas (they call themselves SCG, I think it stands for Soft Cock Gang)
The roam the streets at night, intimidate locals , drink in the park & smash bottles everywhere. Lots of little fights.
We, as locals, could see trouble brewing, I'm not sure why the local coppers couldnt.
And now there are cops EVERYWHERE in Tuakau, I got stopped twice in town yesterday.

I fucking hate hoodrats like that. Kill the the fuckers.

[chucky19]

They would be tomorrow's chip wrappings.


If you want to harp back to his basic training, he'll also have been taught the first rule of first aid. Don't become a casualty yourself.



What fucking rubbish. Of course you can. What you can't have law and order without is the general population having enough respect for the force policing. We have policing by consent in this country. There aren't anywhere near enough police officers here, and there never will be, to have policing by fear of authority. And there is no need for it anyway.

Speaking of fucking rubbish....

The media are mostly responible for forming the opinions of the 'general population'. A half arsed a cop-bashing opportunity will always trump a story about Police doing a good job.

Yes, self preservation is taught, but so is the duty to protect persons and property. Are you suggesting that no Police officer should ever enter into a situation where there is a liklihood of harm?? How the fuck was he supposed to know that a pack of 13-15 year olds would turn on him??

Respect?? I suppose you preach that 'education is the answer' and 'Justice is about revenge, not rehabilitation' too. The 'general population' thankfully isn't who the Police have to deal with in these situations. They are the shitbags who do not have, and will never have respect for anyone or anything.

It wasn't the 'general population stomping on his head. It wasn't the 'general population' biting off a lip. It wasn't the 'general poulation' that are responsible for the 29 Police killed by unlawful act.

There is a difference between order through fear of authority, and policing by fear. This thread is about the penalties of assault, over which the Police have no control. The joke sentences for assaulting Police, failing to stop, obstruction etc. erode the fear of offenders for the consequences of their actions, and therefore they have no respect for those policing the law, just like the kids at school now have no respect for the teachers because they aren't gonna get their backsides whipped.

Go try dealing with a carload of pissed, drugged and possibly armed shit kickers, and ask for respect from them, then we'll see how far your PC crap gets you.

[Usarka]

An unprovoked assault should receive the same sentence regardless of the person being assaulted. Sure factor in whether the victim is 8ft 2in, or a kung fu master and saw it coming but getting king it from behind walking down the road should get the same sentence as someone attacking a cop, ambo or anything else.

We're all equal, except me.



Go try dealing with a carload of pissed, drugged and possibly armed shit kickers, and ask for respect from them, then we'll see how far your PC crap gets you.


Like most knee jerk reactions to making laws, the answer is societal. Extra penalties won't deter jack. I've unfortunately spent some time at court recently, and it's simply a way of life for a lot of people.

[peasea]

Go try dealing with a carload of pissed, drugged and possibly armed shit kickers.

Um, you talking about the police or........??

[Mudfart]

Ive seen assaults in public on members of the public. a good one was some absolutely insane dude smacking on his missus at greerton countdown. they got told to leave so he was beating on her. i would have stepped in, but im 6ft and this guy was huge. prolly bout 6,3 and 120kgs of mad raging muscle. All you could see was the muscles in his body, not an ounce of fat. he must be a heavy for one of the major gangs, or some kind of cage fighter. Then he got into his car with a baby girl in the backseat.
He stopped to abuse the 20 people who were all calling police at the same time on thier cells.
noone would take him on.
I bet an off duty cop would have.
Thats what separates cops from joe public, i reckon.
Btw, IF a cop had of taken him on, I would have helped as much as my fat ass could have, back in those days!

[Littleman]

Ive seen assaults in public on members of the public. a good one was some absolutely insane dude smacking on his missus at greerton countdown. they got told to leave so he was beating on her. i would have stepped in, but im 6ft and this guy was huge. prolly bout 6,3 and 120kgs of mad raging muscle. All you could see was the muscles in his body, not an ounce of fat. he must be a heavy for one of the major gangs, or some kind of cage fighter. Then he got into his car with a baby girl in the backseat.
He stopped to abuse the 20 people who were all calling police at the same time on thier cells.
noone would take him on.
I bet an off duty cop would have.
Thats what separates cops from joe public, i reckon.
Btw, IF a cop had of taken him on, I would have helped as much as my fat ass could have, back in those days!


AAaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh......... a step away from KB and into reality......

Somewhat refreshing.

[red mermaid]

Yep, and I bet peasea would have been hiding in the toilets.

[Dave Lobster]

Yep, and I bet peasea would have been hiding in the toilets.

:angry: Our Countdown doesn't have toilets

[scracha]

Should the penalty for an assault on a police officer be more than for an assault on any other member of the public?


Yep...no question. Attack someone in cop/ambo/fireman* uniform and you should get the maximum possible sentence for that offence. Emergency services peeps must be able to do their job without the constant fear from the scum of society.



Except traffic wardens

[peasea]

Yep, and I bet peasea would have been hiding in the toilets.

Hell no, I never shop at Countdown.

[SixPackBack]

Yep...no question. Attack someone in cop/ambo/fireman* uniform and you should get the maximum possible sentence for that offence. Emergency services peeps must be able to do their job without the constant fear from the scum of society.



Except traffic wardens

...........And the Ginga prick and his dodgy Hazzard county mates.

[Usarka]

Yep...no question. Attack someone in cop/ambo/fireman* uniform and you should get the maximum possible sentence for that offence. Emergency services peeps must be able to do their job without the constant fear from the scum of society.



I agree, but so should all unprovoked serious assaults.

Petrol station employees should also be able to go about their job without fear from the public.

[Mudfart]

I agree, but so should all unprovoked serious assaults.

Petrol station employees should also be able to go about their job without fear from the public.

this is true, hopefully the one good thing to come out of the govt taking MORE money off me, is that harsher sentences will kick in.
God only knows what some high court judges are thinking half the time.
The 3 strikes your out starts soon. I mean you drive drunk at age 40, been doin it your whole life, smash into a car, kill someone, and get 2 yrs loss license, 3 yrs manslaughter, with 2 yrs already served on home detention? The person would only serve 3-4months in prison? ARE U KIDDING??!!!!!

[scumdog]

Escalation?.........Yup many will see it that way, and for what? Regardless of the amount of armament available to the coppers there will always be some psycho willing to bite a coppers lip off for no apparent reason.

An argument could be forwarded that more coppers will die when carrying guns and not less. I would be willing to stake my life on that bet-that in 5 years after full and constant gun carrying [i.e every copper carrys a side arm, visible and constant], more coppers will die. [look to the USA for confirmation!]

Treating crimes against the police differently is a dangerous legal precedent, one that will end in tears. We all have risks in our daily work, the police are no different.

The one difference being the freedom to carry a pistol that the Yanks have and we do not, ergo slightly less pistls being carried.

And If I get shot dead who's to worry? - not me....

[tri boy]

I guess in your case there is no fine line you are a complete nob because you would never be anyone's hero.

Well, who's a little name caller then?
Have you met peasea?
Thats what I thought.
Toss pot.

[scumdog]

Well, who's a little name caller then?
Have you met peasea?
Thats what I thought.
Toss pot.

Peasea is a toss pot?:blink:

[tri boy]

Peasea is a toss pot?:blink:

Nah, but he has probably tossed a bit of pot around:laugh:

[jahrasti]

Peasea is a toss pot?:blink:

Thats senior toss pot according to him.

[tri boy]

Bottom line on this particular case is, the copper misjudged the very real danger he was in, and got dealt to.
No need for a law change to hide the fact of incompetence in this situation.

[scumdog]

Bottom line on this particular case is, the copper misjudged the very real danger he was in, and got dealt to.
No need for a law change to hide the fact of incompetence in this situation.

misjudged = incompetence eh??:scratch:

[tri boy]

Misjudged-walked into a fight with numerous people without weighing up the "Your Nicked sunshine" ratio against "I'm going to get the shit kicked outta me" possibility, and judged it wrong.

Incompetence-by not knowing how, or even trying to weigh the ratio closer in his favor.

Not saying he deserved it. But he did plain old f**k up.
No law change required.




On a side note, I got mixed up in a huge(80+) brawl outside the Overlander roadhouse just outside Pt Hedland in the 90's. Abbos against Construction workers. Scary shit.
Did the dozen or so coppers attending wade in? Hell no. They sat back until most of the brawlers were worn out with fighting, then took control and made arrests. Smart Ockers

[red mermaid]

Expect a knock on the door soon as it is obvious with your indepth knowledge of the situation, as posted, you will be required as a witness.



Misjudged-walked into a fight with numerous people without weighing up the "Your Nicked sunshine" ratio against "I'm going to get the shit kicked outta me" possibility, and judged it wrong.

Incompetence-by not knowing how, or even trying to weigh the ratio closer in his favor.

Not saying he deserved it. But he did plain old f**k up.
No law change required.




On a side note, I got mixed up in a huge(80+) brawl outside the Overlander roadhouse just outside Pt Hedland in the 90's. Abbos against Construction workers. Scary shit.
Did the dozen or so coppers attending wade in? Hell no. They sat back until most of the brawlers were worn out with fighting, then took control and made arrests. Smart Ockers

[tri boy]

They don't pay enough. Thats why fools n monkeys are employed:-/

[scumdog]

On a side note, I got mixed up in a huge(80+) brawl outside the Overlander roadhouse just outside Pt Hedland in the 90's. Abbos against Construction workers. Scary shit.
Did the dozen or so coppers attending wade in? Hell no. They sat back until most of the brawlers were worn out with fighting, then took control and made arrests. Smart Ockers

Walk to a fight and run to a fire......works for me

[Swoop]

Damn right, I like your style!
Serious question Scummy: Would you give a pistol to every member of the police force?
Not "some" but all police. We all know that there is a range of "competencies" of officers and some would not be suitable to be armed with anything more than a radio and flashlight...

If you get one I want one too.

Then what?
Interesting statement. I have a friend who is a highly respected member of the general community. He has stated that "when it's too dangerous in public, that a policeman has to carry a firearm, then I'll be doing the same". He is quite serious.

I would be willing to stake my life on that bet-that in 5 years after full and constant gun carrying [i.e every copper carrys a side arm, visible and constant], more coppers will die. [look to the USA for confirmation!
What certainly will increase, is the amount of police firearms that "disappear" or end up in the wrong hands. Our police force already lose a few firearms every year.

[SixPackBack]

The one difference being the freedom to carry a pistol that the Yanks have and we do not, ergo slightly less pistls being carried.

And If I get shot dead who's to worry? - not me....

In all seriousness I'm sure your family and friends would be devastaed.......would certainly upset me.

[Dave Lobster]

What certainly will increase, is the amount of police firearms that "disappear" or end up in the wrong hands. Our police force already lose a few firearms every year.

Does the army?

Whoops.. defence force..

[Mikkel]

An argument could be forwarded that more coppers will die when carrying guns and not less. I would be willing to stake my life on that bet-that in 5 years after full and constant gun carrying [i.e every copper carrys a side arm, visible and constant], more coppers will die. [look to the USA for confirmation!]

As a counter point I'll draw forth Denmark (and many other European countries I suppose) - the police have been carrying firearms for decades, still there aren't exactly a lot of armed confrontations. Sure the bikies and drug gangs can get their hands on the hardware, but it isn't readily available. There has recently been a period with gangs fighting over drug distribution which involved some shootings around Copenhagen, but that stands out as the extreme exception.


Double the penalty for assaulting police - you cannot have order without fear of authority.

You can not have enslavement with out fear of authority, I won't contest that. But you can most definitely have order without fear of authority. This whole idea of fear is going backwards, not forwards.


That's bollocks. I think the word you're looking for is 'respect'.

Respect is earned and no amount of legislation will change that.

Yep.

[Swoop]

Does the army?

Whoops.. defence force..
Apparently they do. IIRC, a steyr was found in the Te Qaeda raids a while back.

[peasea]

Nah, but he has probably tossed a bit of pot around:laugh:

Hell yeah; out the window while Mr Plod was in hot pursuit. Crackup.

[peasea]

In all seriousness I'm sure your family and friends would be devastaed.......would certainly upset me.



Sarcasm.....I love the shit.

[peasea]

Thats senior toss pot according to him.

You didn't do that multi-choice test I posted did you? If you had you would have seen that 'tosspot' wasn't an option.

[peasea]

Peasea is a toss pot?:blink:

More of a tea pot with my current girth.

[PrincessBandit]

Just been listening to some person (offishul like) on the news spouting about how the police have to earn respect. There are some real arseholes out there who will never respond to the "earning" of any type of respect, let alone for the Police. It's so reassuring that we have all these idiots wanking on about this highly emotive issue treating it like some party game. No matter how exemplary the behaviour of our police force might ever be, crims will still be crims and people will still moan about the pigs.

[SixPackBack]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10629134

Long article outlining the issues coppers face. Chief amongst them seems to be a lack of respect, and a surprising [for me] attitude by the public and courts. I quote the following from the article:

"Conduct such as leaning into an officer's face on a Friday night and snarling "F*** you, pig" is tolerated - by the public, by the media, and by judges who write it off as essentially being "just something police have to put up with" and not serious enough to warrant legal sanction."

I question the officers assertion that individuals behave like that to coppers and get away with it?....either I am very much removed from the real world, or Mr O'connor is being reckless with the truth?...........IMHO coppers should not have to put up with such behavior; furthermore, on the few occasions I have had contact with the police in an official manner, spiting or swearing would have seen me stuffed in the back of the squad car!
For what its worth I feel the following would have an enormous effect on crime:

A compulsory course entered into by pregnant mothers [and the dad].
Followed by constant surveillance by plunket [or a similar organization] to keep an eye on the up bringing of all our junior citizens [once every 3 months?...a friendly house call?]
The preceeding will go a long way to sorting out the vast majority of all crimes. The 'nurture' side of the equation is taken care of, and those with dubious 'natures' will be identified.

Within a generation crime will be cut by two thirds.

Fixing the public image of police is also straightforward: Instigate easier methods of removing dodgy coppers. There are two coppers in Hazzard that regularly circumvent the law, behave in a maverick manner and are single handedly responsible for an exceptionally poor opinion of the local coppers. They need to go, and it needs to be far easier for the force to get rid of them.

[Edbear]

From the article...
" We have even had offenders who were caught complaining angrily that police didn't pull out of a chase "like they're supposed to".

When the Police have this mentality to deal with they're on a hiding to nothing.

Another similar article...
http://www.3news.co.nz/Police-sick-of-verbal-abuse/tabid/423/articleID/144176/Default.aspx?ArticleID=144176

Nowadays they simply cannot talk to and reason with these young criminals who think they have every right to do and say as they please without consequences. They see the Police and any who oppose or criticise them as the enemy and have no concept of humanity. Totally self-focused they care nothing for any other persons. They are effectively brain dead.

As for the human rights lawyer, he merely reinforces the stereotype.

[Mudfart]

I think its a good idea to monitor childrens upbringings. Too many kids are treated as a simple way of collecting a benefit, and basically live on the streets while the mothers are busy partying and trying to make more meal tickets for more drugs, alcohol and tobacco.
I used to work on road and civil engineering jobs in some of the scummiest streets in auckland, I've seen how kids are treated, and what the adults in those streets get up to.
Look at the small "shithole" towns, I'm only using an example here.....Huntly. Absolutely DEAD on a monday, you can park outside any shop you want.
Why? Because all the beneficiaries have partied away their money, if not before the weekend, then during it.
Tuesday, weds, thurs, it gets packed. Heaps of people in the liqour shops, the takeaways, bakeries, TAB, etc....
A good one is when you see two young ladies walking home from the paknsave in hamilton carrying two boxes of beer, at 9am on a tuesday. Police should be ordered to question them, do they have kids? where do they live? what are their living conditions etc....?
$50 says they got multiple kids who probably starve most of the week, and go to school with no shoes, but they bring their runny noses and nits!

[Edbear]

Just been listening to some person (offishul like) on the news spouting about how the police have to earn respect. There are some real arseholes out there who will never respond to the "earning" of any type of respect, let alone for the Police. It's so reassuring that we have all these idiots wanking on about this highly emotive issue treating it like some party game. No matter how exemplary the behaviour of our police force might ever be, crims will still be crims and people will still moan about the pigs.

Funny thing is, that myself, I have never had a problem with the Police. Yes, despite my halo of sweet innocence..:innocent: I have been pulled over a couple of times, once for speeding, :gob: (112km/h and given a ticket for it), and once I was asked to quieten my old BSA B31 down a bit as a neighbour had complained. Okay I loved the sound coming from the gutted Dunstall megaphone and may have used full throttle up my street a few times... :shifty: But any time I have spoken to, or been spoken to by, the Police I have never had any aggro or problem with the officers. They have always responded with thesame respect I show them, which is the same respect I treat everyone with.

So my question really, is, "Why do some people have "issues" with the Police when interacting with them and others don't?"

Respect? I've seen what the Police have to deal with...

[scumdog]

Serious question Scummy: Would you give a pistol to every member of the police force?
Not "some" but all police. We all know that there is a range of "competencies" of officers and some would not be suitable to be armed with anything more than a radio and flashlight...


Those suitably trained - sorta like the army where not all are armed all the time...

[SixPackBack]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10629722

A Waikato tourist has been thrown into a Brisbane jail - because he called a Queensland policeman "useless" after seeking directions in the city.
Engineer Paul O'Reilly, 24, of Otorohanga, said he had expected Queensland police would be like those in his home town - giving public the same sort of courtesy they themselves rightly expected.
He was desperate to find his way to his brother's Sunshine Coast home after the pair became separated at a music festival on Doomben Racecourse last weekend, he told The Courier-Mail.
With no mobile phone or money to make a payphone call, O'Reilly approached a police sergeant for help. He was told to "go north," and responded with "You're the most useless police in the world."
He was promptly arrested and spent a night in jail before appearing in Brisbane Magistrate's Court charged with being a public nuisance.
The case was adjourned after magistrate John Costello told O'Reilly - who initially tried to plead guilty - he thought his behaviour did not meet the standard required to prove the charge and should get legal advice.

Today O'Reilly returned to court and his lawyer, Kate McArthur, asked the charge be struck out entirely.
Mr Costello indicated that in light of the facts he had no intention of doing anything other than admonish him and impose no other penalty, and O'Reilly pleaded guilty.
Outside court, he said the experience had ruined a much anticipated holiday and lowered his opinion of Australian police.
"In New Zealand we are taught to trust and respect police and seek them out for help when we are in trouble," he said.

Hahahahaha.