Wanted: Hutt / Welly KB'r who knows about old Zeds

[Ratti]

I need someone who is familiar with these bikes and lives in Hutt to come to my house and help me out with learning how to start the wretched beast. Is really easy to flood and I can not get the hang of how to do the throttle/choke thing to get him going.

No point posting if you can't be here in person, it's one of those things that has to done, watched and practiced with someone who is in the know.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'm happy to have a quick squizz for you one day that suits

Pete

[Pedrostt500]

A mate of mine has a bit to do with them, though he is in Rongotai, if all else fails PM me and I will pass on his Phone Number.

[Ratti]

Thanks Sweety. I will bear it in mind.

[BMWST?]

Thanks Sweety. I will bear it in mind.

some of those bikes wif choke dont like ANY throttle when trying to start,or perhaps the merest whiff,dont "pump" the throttle

[Ratti]

yes, that was the line of thinking my mind has been wandering down. Im very ignorant of things mechanical tho so not sure what I can and cant do. I got him going to night so I know he will start fine for a few days before it gets hard again. Next time I will try just a teeny bit of choke and no throttle.

thanks. Its all about trial and error really

[pete376403]

If the carbs on the Zed are anything like the carbs on the GS1100, the 'choke" (starting enrichment) opens a completely seperate circuit in the carb to provide a rich mixture for starting while at the same time increasing the idle speed , so you don't want to be adding any throttle at all.
I assume all the other bits in the intake system are correct, ie proper air filter which is clean, no air leaks between the carbs and the inlet ports - the rubber joiners tend to go very hard over time preventing proper sealing.

[hmmmnz]

i owned one many moons ago,
and as above, the choke is an enrichment circuit not a "choke" as such
so if you give it any throttle at all it won't start, as the vacum is reduced and the amount of fuel becomes less,
thats providing all the fiddly bits in the choke system are working,
certainly not the simplest carbs out there :D

[MSTRS]

+1 on the choke/enrichener thing...
When cold, use full choke and NO throttle. Crank. When it starts, NO throttle. Let it settle into an even idle BEFORE using throttle.

[Ratti]

ok. That's when it gets too much fuel though. Can smell it.
hmmmnz, would it be more fruitful to take to to mech to have that part of the mechanism checked and fixed?

The battery winds down to a whimper after 4-5 tries at starting, so I'm wondering if that might be the first place to start? Have had the actual starter clutch fixed at Boyles and they pulled apart the carbs while he was there. I'm assuming that if anything had been wrong with the carb and seals then theywould have noted it at that time?

[MSTRS]

Sounds like your battery is on its last legs. At least put it on a charger for 24 hours.Then try again.
Why would a mechanic pull apart the carbs when he was doing starter clutch work?

[Ratti]

trying to work out why it was so hard to start. he started with the fuel system then moved on from there.
I have had the battery on trickle to keep the charge up, but it's not really doing the deed.

[MSTRS]

Ok - so something in your bike is causing issues. The battery is definitely poked, if you keep it on trickle and it still only works briefly.
Have a word with _stain_ - he is in NaeNae and is pretty good on the older stuff. (as long as it has petrol in it, eh mate?)

[Ratti]

Thanks. I've pm'd him and hopefuly will recieve a reply

[pete376403]

When it does start, what sort of running does it get? It takes a fairly longish ride at highway speeds to fully charge a battery. If you're just doing round-town stuff then low revs+brake light+indicators+headlight on means the battery isn't getting a good charge.

Early 80s Suzukis had absolutely crap charging systems, chances are Kawasaki orf the same era were not much better. Also after near 30 years connections get shaky, wiring breaks internally, etc. Or it could be something as simple as the battery low on water. Whatever, the batttery should be good for a lot more than four or five attempts at starting.
Fix the charging / battery problem first and the starting problem might go away.

[hmmmnz]

if it were my bike i would be stripping the carbs and giving them a going over,
changing the plugs, and probably most importantly doing the valve clearances,
obviously this isn't something your wanting to pay a garage to do as its time consuming to say the least,
but if you knock those 3 things on the head, and the compression is all good then she should pretty much start on the button

[Ratti]

We bought the bike early 2008. Put in a new battery at that time. I only rode it a few times before my husband became unwell with what turned out to be terminal cancer. he died a year ago to day as it happens.
For various reasons I didn't even start the bike from May 2008 until Sept last year. SInce then I have been making an effort to get the niggly bits and pieces fixed.

I am usually out for hour or two on open road once or twice a week. Not a commuter.

Valve clearances have been checked and sorted

My thought is battery replaced soon and then see how that goes before I send him back to mech for carb/enricher overhaul.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Valve clearances have been checked and sorted

My thought is battery replaced soon and then see how that goes before I send him back to mech for carb/enricher overhaul.

You honestly can't go past Mark/John Boyle for sorting early Kawasakis out.

[Pedrostt500]

Before you replace the battery, give it a good hard charge, say 12 hrs, then turn the lights on for 10 mins , then charge the battery again for say 4 hrs, run the lights for 20 mins then charge again, some times batteries need a bit of conditioning after they have been sitting in storage for a while, If you still don't want to trust the battery after this then replace it, but keep your old battery and store it charged, giving it a top up charge every 2 to 3 months, it may be handy in the future for you or a friend to get out of a tight spot.

[pete376403]

And check the water level before you do that

[Voltaire]

If the battery is one the way out, with the starter on there is probably less then sufficient voltage for the ignition to fire.

Do the easy stuff first.
Battery, have it tested or replaced. )I took mine down to Century Batteries who are the Yuasa agent and they checked it, and the number told how old it was.)
New plugs,
New petrol,( this is important as some bikes don't like old stuff)
Clean or replace air cleaner,( I fitted a K and N to my Z)
Start with choke and no throttle ( as mentioned)

my tuppence worth...oh and I had a Z1000j back in the day....
but then they were newish then and the rubbers and seals were not 30 years old.

[Hawkeye]

We bought the bike early 2008. Put in a new battery at that time. I only rode it a few times before my husband became unwell with what turned out to be terminal cancer. he died a year ago to day as it happens.
For various reasons I didn't even start the bike from May 2008 until Sept last year. SInce then I have been making an effort to get the niggly bits and pieces fixed.

I am usually out for hour or two on open road once or twice a week. Not a commuter.

Valve clearances have been checked and sorted

My thought is battery replaced soon and then see how that goes before I send him back to mech for carb/enricher overhaul.

If the battery was allowed to go dead in the time it was left standing, you will probably find the battery is one of the root causes of your starting problems. If there isn't enough charge to turn the engine sufficiently, then the spark will also be substandard. Batteries don't like that being left to go dead.

[Ratti]

god I love you guys! Bloody magic. Followed suggestions and BINGO.

left it for a week so it would be hard to start
topped up water in battery
charged said battery until the charge light went green
enricher out all the way, wanted to catch but not quite so I pushed it back in to about half way.
no throttle, in spite of right hand wanting to twist.
took several blips but fired up within a minute
apart from scaring the bejesus outof the cat who was sleeping in the workroom where i store the bike, all good. warmed up nicely with no sputtering, idling nicely once he was warm.

whew! I owe you guys. thanks a lot.

Still seems to be a lot rattlier in the motor than I remember my one from 20 years ago being...but then so am I.

[MSTRS]

g
Still seems to be a lot rattlier in the motor than I remember my one from 20 years ago being...but then so am I.

That's not age...it's abuse and lack of maintenance!:innocent:

[Ratti]

yup, so how rattly are you???

[Paul in NZ]

when was the last time the valve clearances were checked and carbs balanced? If the carbs are out of whack (and they seem to have been pulled off and on) then at idle it will sound like two cheese graters fornicating in a rubbish tin..

[MSTRS]

yup, so how rattly are you???

I have my good days...

[Ratti]

valves and carbs done recently. Idles a bit loud 'cos of noisy 'boy' pipes. COuld be that is all it is. If I threw real pipes back onto him then everything may well quieten down.
Cheese graters fornicating in a rubbish tin..nice imagery

[pete376403]

Air cooled motors with roller bearing cranks tend to be noiser than their modern, water cooled, plain bearing crank counterparts. It's how they all were back then. Plus your aftermarket pipes are probably only single wall tube, where the originals would have been double wall (to keep the chrome nice, but would have also reduced noise a bit). My GS1100, with cycleworks 4-into-1, has been likened to two skeletons fucking in a biscuit tin. Putting a quiet muffler (stock CBR600) only emphasised the mechanical noise of the engine. Rest easy, the Kawasaki and Suzuki 8 valve motors are still the strongest things put into bike frames - thats why drag bike engines are still built around them.

[Ratti]

update
bloody magic!

battery was the final bad link in the starting problem issue.

SO far so good, has been firing up first pop, using the brilliant advice on enricher.

woohoo!
thanks guys I owe you. coffee and bikkies on me

[RDjase]

update
bloody magic!

battery was the final bad link in the starting problem issue.

SO far so good, has been firing up first pop, using the brilliant advice on enricher.

woohoo!
thanks guys I owe you. coffee and bikkies on me

Cool !

You will be all set for the HB BFTP Rally now aye Ratti ;-)

I was talking to a guy with a 79 1000 LTD and he sounds keen on the really too, be good to have matching bikes there

[hmmmnz]

nice one, alls well that ends well,
the top end will be especially noisy when she's cold, as they allowed for quite a bit of cam shaft endfloat, it should quieten down when she's warmed up and everything has expanded :D

[Crasherfromwayback]

update
bloody magic!

battery was the final bad link in the starting problem issue.

SO far so good, has been firing up first pop, using the brilliant advice on enricher.

woohoo!
thanks guys I owe you. coffee and bikkies on me

Glad the battery is helping

P

[MSTRS]

update
bloody magic!

battery was the final bad link in the starting problem issue.

SO far so good, has been firing up first pop, using the brilliant advice on enricher.


Just sometimes it's nice to be able to say "Told you so". Coupled with a small sigh of relief that 'we' were right...
Happy riding eh?

[Ratti]

Im keen to do the bftp rally, but having trouble working out what to do with my sprogs for the weekend. I'll keep trying and see what happens. You never know. I agree it'd be way cool to have Kwakas enmasse..well more than just me anyway!

[RDjase]

Im keen to do the bftp rally, but having trouble working out what to do with my sprogs for the weekend. I'll keep trying and see what happens. You never know. I agree it'd be way cool to have Kwakas enmasse..well more than just me anyway!

You ned a sidecar for it lol

[Ratti]

not on this one. but one of my others is a candidate for a sidecar. One day, by the time I can afford it, the kids will be out the door.
Ive still got 2 at home, but only my daughter is keen on bikes. Neither of the boys are interested,. They just roll their eyes and sigh. 'Mum, only girls ride bikes" They havent yet worked out that women riders are a minority.

[pete376403]

While you're waiting to get the sidecar, have a look at a few here http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294734

I'm looking to hang one off the side of the Suzuki when I get a round tuit (and the house finished, and some money, and...)