More rorts from the Nats [Archive]

rainman

23rd February 2010, 23:56

When is it going to stop?
...
What a disgrace of a Government this one is. :weird:

Answer: it isn't, at least until this useless lot are voted out - but to be honest, probably still not then.

I've worked in companies where staff have been strenuously disciplined for misusing company credit cards, but I'm guessing Key will be "relaxed". If Heatley genuinely claims this was a mistake what are we to conclude about his competence in managing his portfolio? And even if it was a smaller amount Brownlee should have known better. How hard is it to differentiate between personal and government spending?

However, there are still plenty of people who will excuse this despite the fact they'd bleat like mad if the other side did the same (examples below). I believe the unparliamentary term for such people begins with an "h".

Best you get over to "The Standard" with all the other lefty lickspittles....

same old same old, change the record chummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmP

Skyryder

24th February 2010, 09:13

Best you get over to "The Standard" with all the other lefty lickspittles....No story here...get over it.
nice pic of Clark on your profile

Guess we will not hear from you if this story goes a bit further.

Seems that now there is emerging speculation that MP's have been issuing credit cards to their office staff for the express purpose of hiding their expenses knowing full well that what they are doing is illegal.

This ladies and gentleman constitutes fraud and I would expect the appropaite charges to be laid irrespective of what Party the MP's who practiced this deception belonged too if this speculation deems to be fact.

Skyryder

scissorhands

24th February 2010, 09:24

I quite like this flushing out of corrupt poli's and businessmen thats been going on for the last year or so.

Bring it on!

I do wonder if the NWO policy responsible for this clamp down is just a tactic to make all power brokers tow the NWO line.... facilitating a new corruption....

freedom-wedge

24th February 2010, 09:59

Answer: it isn't, at least until this useless lot are voted out - but to be honest, probably still not then.

I've worked in companies where staff have been strenuously disciplined for misusing company credit cards, but I'm guessing Key will be "relaxed". If Heatley genuinely claims this was a mistake what are we to conclude about his competence in managing his portfolio? And even if it was a smaller amount Brownlee should have known better. How hard is it to differentiate between personal and government spending?

However, there are still plenty of people who will excuse this despite the fact they'd bleat like mad if the other side did the same (examples below). I believe the unparliamentary term for such people begins with an "h".

simple really, if they could get somthing like this wrong, ask yourself what other mistakes are they likely to make, I think they all know what there doing, it upsets me so much, has anyone got a hankey

pedro

freedom-wedge

24th February 2010, 10:08

Guess we will not hear from you if this story goes a bit further.

Seems that now there is emerging speculation that MP's have been issuing credit cards to their office staff for the express purpose of hiding their expenses knowing full well that what they are doing is illegal.

This ladies and gentleman constitutes fraud and I would expect the appropaite charges to be laid irrespective of what Party the MP's who practiced this deception belonged too if this speculation deems to be fact.

Skyryder

have you any idea the size of the carpet their going to have to sweep this under, theres more on the way im sure

does anyone know why I,m not racking up posts, it stiill says only 4 weird

pedro

Str8 Jacket

24th February 2010, 11:22

does anyone know why I,m not racking up posts, it stiill says only 4 weird

pedro

Because you have only made 4 useful posts....

Swoop

24th February 2010, 11:24

Seems that now there is emerging speculation that MP's have been issuing credit cards to their office staff for the express purpose of hiding their expenses knowing full well that what they are doing is illegal.
I wonder how long that has been happening... more than nine years?

does anyone know why I,m not racking up posts, it stiill says only 4 weird

pedro
Read the FAQ's. Posting in R&R does not add to your total.

imdying

24th February 2010, 11:28

have you any idea the size of the carpet their going to have to sweep this under, theres more on the way im sure

does anyone know why I,m not racking up posts, it stiill says only 4 weird

pedroBecause this is primarily a biker site, and people who post useless political crap aren't acknowledged as contributing anything useful.

Pascal

24th February 2010, 11:35

When is it going to stop?

Ok, I see you are calling for the lynch mob when a National MP spent what, less than $2000? Out of random impertinent curiosity, what was your reaction when the Labour government stole $800,000 of public funding for electioneering purposes despite receiving and acknowledging advice from the Electoral Commission that it was going to be counted?

davereid

24th February 2010, 12:54

Ok, I see you are calling for the lynch mob when a National MP spent what, less than $2000? Out of random impertinent curiosity, what was your reaction when the Labour government stole $800,000 of public funding for electioneering purposes despite receiving and acknowledging advice from the Electoral Commission that it was going to be counted?

Its my bet that Labour and the Greens won't be bashing the table demanding an investigation of credit card usage by M.Ps, and their electorate staff.

You would have to be amazingly naive to assume that this particular rort was only just invented....

slofox

24th February 2010, 14:19

I wonder how long that has been happening... more than nine years?

Read the FAQ's. Posting in R&R does not add to your total.

More than nine years? My earliest political memories involve MP's families buying up land because they knew it was to be used for a government project...and those memories are fifty odd years old...

I'd say this sort of thing has always gone on.

Wonder how ya get a gummint credit card..?

Oscar

24th February 2010, 14:32

More than nine years? My earliest political memories involve MP's families buying up land because they knew it was to be used for a government project...and those memories are fifty odd years old...

I'd say this sort of thing has always gone on.

Wonder how ya get a gummint credit card..?

The Marginal Lands Board scandal..

Oscar

24th February 2010, 14:36

When is it going to stop?

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/heatley-makes-teary-eyed-apology-over-expenses-3378486

Oh please. Not another 'tearjerker' apology.

It's bad enough getting caught ripping us off but the crybaby stuff and tearfull act might fool ya boss and his acolytes but even Rodders never tried that one.

What a disgrace of a Government this one is. :weird:

Skyryder

Disgrace?

These guys are learners compared to the last lot.
Have any Ministers so far:

Pissed in a Hotel hallway?
Been caught DIC?
Signed a painting that wasn't theirs?
Allowed their drivers to take the rap for speeding motorcades?

Glass houses 'n all:yes:

MSTRS

24th February 2010, 14:41

You would have to be amazingly naive to assume that this particular rort was only just invented....

Exactly. And even more naive if you thought that MPs are there to serve their communities.

Tank

24th February 2010, 15:39

SPman

24th February 2010, 15:56

Never mind - this current lot are making up for lost time, with REAL corrupt practices....not just crap like getting out of a speeding ticket, which pollies have done for as long as there have been speeding tickets!
I say, shoot the f**king lot of them and start again....

Skyryder

24th February 2010, 15:58

Ok, I see you are calling for the lynch mob when a National MP spent what, less than $2000? Out of random impertinent curiosity, what was your reaction when the Labour government stole $800,000 of public funding for electioneering purposes despite receiving and acknowledging advice from the Electoral Commission that it was going to be counted?

The only party that did not rort the funding of what you speak of were the Progressives. The were all at it. The only differance were the amounts. Still if it helps you just keep bringing up all the old stuff. I don't mind if ya wanna look look like ya don't know what ya on about.

Skyryder

Skyryder

24th February 2010, 16:09

Disgrace?

These guys are learners compared to the last lot.
Have any Ministers so far:

Pissed in a Hotel hallway?
Been caught DIC?
Signed a painting that wasn't theirs?
Allowed their drivers to take the rap for speeding motorcades?

Glass houses 'n all:yes:

Don' tknow about the hallway so can't comment but if true.......................grubby behavour.

I've posted on the DIC with Dyson and have not defened this. In fact if I recall she should hve been dumped.

The painting in question was for charity a convewniat truth that those that raise this issue seemto forget.

My posts on the speeding motorcade are again well documented on here. My only defense of Clarke in this issue is that many believed that she as a passanger was responsable. That's about as silly as blaming pillion for speeding and I have said as much.

Trying to defend the Nats on this rort by bringiup these old issues....................................thought at least you could come up with something better than than your post but then again how do you defend deliberatly ripping off the taxpayer. Bottomline ya can't.

Skyryder

Mully

24th February 2010, 16:13

I notice the Opposition (all of them) don't seem to have kicked up much of a fuss about this.

Does it seem like they all want the issue to just go away quietly?

mashman

24th February 2010, 16:22

I notice the Opposition (all of them) don't seem to have kicked up much of a fuss about this.

Does it seem like they all want the issue to just go away quietly?

Perhaps they're fed up with the bad press that Politicians get and realise that "they're next" into power... and have decided to let the media take care of removing the Nats from power on their behalf... then maybe, just maybe, they'll focus on policies that mean something to the people? and if not, pffff, round we go again

Mully

24th February 2010, 16:26

Perhaps they're fed up with the bad press that Politicians get and realise that "they're next" into power... and have decided to let the media take care of removing the Nats from power on their behalf... then maybe, just maybe, they'll focus on policies that mean something to the people? and if not, pffff, round we go again

I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

Thud

slofox

24th February 2010, 16:31

I notice the Opposition (all of them) don't seem to have kicked up much of a fuss about this.

Does it seem like they all want the issue to just go away quietly?

Of course. They ALL do it, no matter what colour shirt they wear. And they always have and always will.

Frankly I think all this "your party is worse than mine" stuff is a crock...all parties are tarred with the same brush IMO...but then I'm a cynical old bastard anyway I suppose...

MSTRS

24th February 2010, 16:42

The painting in question was for charity a convewniat truth that those that raise this issue seemto forget.

My posts on the speeding motorcade are again well documented on here. My only defense of Clarke in this issue is that many believed that she as a passanger was responsable. That's about as silly as blaming pillion for speeding and I have said as much.

Defending that witch on that basis holds as much water as a collander.
She signed someone else's painting. Doesn't matter what the cause was. If her signature was/is so valuable, she should have signed a blank piece of paper and auctioned that.
And no-one can use the 'she was just a passenger' argument. The CEO is NEVER just a passenger.

Skyryder

24th February 2010, 17:19

Robert Taylor

24th February 2010, 18:55

TV 1 link. Stil a rorts a rort story or not. But then that's what this Govt does best.

Not the Clarke thing again. Jeeeez I think you Nats are in love with her.:love:

Skyryder

You mean the nasty calculating piece of work that callously got rid of our first line of defence ( A4s ) and all of the support infrastructure. She ( it ) deserves nothing less than the most horrible death imaginable, and I REALLY MEAN THAT.

This Government isnt perfect but at least it has people in it with business experience and sense, and is not full of gays and lesbians like the Labour party. I hope those bastards are never in power again.

Robert Taylor

24th February 2010, 18:59

Don' tknow about the hallway so can't comment but if true.......................grubby behavour.

I've posted on the DIC with Dyson and have not defened this. In fact if I recall she should hve been dumped.

The painting in question was for charity a convewniat truth that those that raise this issue seemto forget.

My posts on the speeding motorcade are again well documented on here. My only defense of Clarke in this issue is that many believed that she as a passanger was responsable. That's about as silly as blaming pillion for speeding and I have said as much.

Trying to defend the Nats on this rort by bringiup these old issues....................................thought at least you could come up with something better than than your post but then again how do you defend deliberatly ripping off the taxpayer. Bottomline ya can't.

Skyryder

Is that the same Dyson that one election day several elections ago deliberately drove the family car for some considerable time to run it out of petrol? So her husband couldnt get to the poliing booth and vote National.....
I hope he has subsequently divorced the bitch.

davereid

24th February 2010, 19:03

Is that the same Dyson that one election day several elections ago deliberately drove the family car for some considerable time to run it out of petrol? So her husband couldnt get to the poliing booth and vote National.....
I hope he has subsequently divorced the bitch.

He should have told Jonathan Hunt he was voting labour... then Jonathon would have sent him a taxi chit.... he had plenty of them...

Skyryder

24th February 2010, 20:29

Defending that witch on that basis holds as much water as a collander.
She signed someone else's painting. Doesn't matter what the cause was. If her signature was/is so valuable, she should have signed a blank piece of paper and auctioned that.
And no-one can use the 'she was just a passenger' argument. The CEO is NEVER just a passenger.

If memory serves me correctly I think that is exactly what happened.

Anyone not driving 'is' a passenger.

Skyryder

Skyryder

24th February 2010, 20:32

Is that the same Dyson that one election day several elections ago deliberately drove the family car for some considerable time to run it out of petrol? So her husband couldnt get to the poliing booth and vote National.....
I hope he has subsequently divorced the bitch.

An urban myth propagated by an ill informed Nat supporter.

Skyyrder

pete376403

24th February 2010, 20:42

You mean the nasty calculating piece of work that callously got rid of our first line of defence ( A4s ) and all of the support infrastructure. She ( it ) deserves nothing less than the most horrible death imaginable, and I REALLY MEAN THAT.

This Government isnt perfect but at least it has people in it with business experience and sense, and is not full of gays and lesbians like the Labour party. I hope those bastards are never in power again.

OK I'll bite
1. We don't need the Skyhawks anymore because no foriegn power needs to take NZ by force, the nats will happily sell them whatever they want.

2. You really are a homophobe, aren't you? How will you handle it if a gay person wants to buy ohlins bits?

Robert Taylor

24th February 2010, 20:44

If memory serves me correctly I think that is exactly what happened.

Anyone not driving 'is' a passenger.

Skyryder
BACK SEAT DRIVER MORE LIKE, it knew exactly how fast they were going, it was calling the shots. It wasnt prepared to man up and admit to it.

Robert Taylor

24th February 2010, 20:51

OK I'll bite
1. We don't need the Skyhawks anymore because no foriegn power needs to take NZ by force, the nats will happily sell them whatever they want.

2. You really are a homophobe, aren't you? How will you handle it if a gay person wants to buy ohlins bits?

The point is we got rid of a proud institution and renegged on the deal of the century for those F16s. At least wed show wed have the intent to defend ourselves.

Point 2 was a dig at Chris Carter, a brazen poofter if ever there was, and a hopeless minister of the crown. I have customers that are gay but unlike Chris Carter they keep it to themselves.

Robert Taylor

24th February 2010, 20:53

An urban myth propagated by an ill informed Nat supporter.

Skyyrder

That she is a bitch?

puddytat

24th February 2010, 20:54

Now just imagine how the Rednecks would react if it was a Green party member, or a Maori party member....:yes:

Pascal

25th February 2010, 05:31

The only party that did not rort the funding of what you speak of were the Progressives. The were all at it. The only differance were the amounts. Still if it helps you just keep bringing up all the old stuff.

Difference being that the only party to be warned that their stolen $800,000 would be counted as an election expense was the Labour party. Your double standards is making you look like the worst kind of partisan hack.

As to the National government. The minister in question apologised and paid the money back. Contrast that with the behavior of the Labour party when they were told to pay back the $800,000 of our money they stole from us, the New Zealand tax payers for electioneering. How long did it take them to pay it back?

For that matter ... how long did it take before they even bothered to apologise for their wrongdoing? Oh, that's right. They haven't yet have they? What about the cover ups for Winston Peters? Ah hell, I can't be arsed listing all the corrupt, venal behaviors of the previous government.

Whilst our current government is no bed of roses, they're less corrupt than the previous lot and at least willing to front up for their mistakes and apologise.

JimO

25th February 2010, 05:55

An urban myth propagated by an ill informed Nat supporter.

Skyyrder

this from a raving labour fanatic

MSTRS

25th February 2010, 07:46

If memory serves me correctly I think that is exactly what happened.

Anyone not driving 'is' a passenger.

Skyryder

Which is exactly what that witch used to hide behind.
I suppose you'll be telling us next that the driver tapped her on the shoulder and said he was "just going for a spin, and would s/he like to come along".
Take a centre-fire rifle, cut the stock off and half the barrel. Now it's magically a pistol. According to the law. But really, it's just cosmetic.

Oscar

25th February 2010, 10:16

He has resigned.
Taken responsibility for his actions and resigned.

Labour supporters may want to have this concept explained to them.

Pascal

25th February 2010, 10:22

He has resigned.
Taken responsibility for his actions and resigned.

Yeah, just saw that. Good to see he is accepting the responsibility for his mistake.

Tank

25th February 2010, 10:46

An urban myth propagated by an ill informed Nat supporter.

Skyyrder

Yeah - Like ol Philip Field that STILL has'nt done anything wrong according to labour who still stand behind the corrupt fucker. Thats worse than a urban myth - its outright deliberate lies.

He has resigned.
Taken responsibility for his actions and resigned.

Labour supporters may want to have this concept explained to them.

No need to explain it to them - its not in their DNA to understand. Look at their history - or for shits and giggles their brothers in the UK.

IN Nat - 2 small mistakes gets your ass fired. Labour - you dont get fired - simply moved to backbenches for a wee while then promoted again.

Mully

25th February 2010, 11:02

He has resigned.
Taken responsibility for his actions and resigned.

S'alright. Skyryder will be along shortly to explain how this is rubbish.

mashman

25th February 2010, 11:04

I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.

Thud

I was going for satire... like slofox was saying too... they're all as bad as each other... the priorities of a politician have always seemed to have been:

what can i get out of the country for me
what can i get out of the country for my family
what can i get out of the country for my mates
A.O.B

and we let them get away with it term after term after term... and all because the people have chosen sides... i mean, we "TRUST" politicians to run the country and treat us well, when we don't trust the person that sits next to us WTF???...

You can bicker about red and blue all ya like (and you're doing a mighty fine job too, kinda reminds me of the playground... my dads better than your dad), they bicker like you in the UK, they bicker like you in the US, they bicker like you in just about every country in the world... yet noone tries any alternatives... because they seem too hard... all this rorting ever changes, or can change, is the vote you have every 3 years... it's pathetic... it makes the staunch reds more red and staunch blues more blue and the rest either don't vote, or vote something else because it's red v blue... wash, rinse and repeat... But thanks for the entertainment...

sorry, ranty ranty blah blah... just fed up with people getting shafted for the paper in their pocket...

Pascal

25th February 2010, 11:23

This gets very interesting now that the last quarter's expenses have been released. See here (http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/MPP/MPs/Expenses/6/3/8/49NZPMPExpenses101220091-Members-expense-disclosure-from-1-October.htm) for more information. It is interesting to compare the numbers for various parties to see how much they rack up.

(Should amend to indicate that relates mostly to travel, accomodation, etc.)

Swoop

25th February 2010, 11:38

If her signature was/is so valuable, she should have signed a blank piece of paper and auctioned that.
Like Key's "flag sketch with signature" that was auctioned for charity and made a few $$$'s.
Klerke's signature would be of more use in the police file on "known forgers"...

freedom-wedge

25th February 2010, 12:08

Because this is primarily a biker site, and people who post useless political crap aren't acknowledged as contributing anything useful.

I,m a biker, always have been, as far as challaneging political crap, it helps keep us all riding, great avatar, why didnt Ii get my photo taken with some of this countries political elite, it would aid my cause no end.

pedro

Robert Taylor

25th February 2010, 12:09

He has resigned.
Taken responsibility for his actions and resigned.

Labour supporters may want to have this concept explained to them.

Exactly, he has gone honourably, the difference being that National party people have a keener sense of etiquette.

Skyryder

25th February 2010, 12:19

Exactly, he has gone honourably, the difference being that National party people have a keener sense of etiquette.

So can we expect Gerrry (the mad miner) Brownlee resignation too?? If not then I can only subscribe to the belief that you do not think that Brownlee is 'honorable' as Phil (the honourable one) Heatly.

Skyryder

freedom-wedge

25th February 2010, 12:35

I was going for satire... like slofox was saying too... they're all as bad as each other... the priorities of a politician have always seemed to have been:

what can i get out of the country for me
what can i get out of the country for my family
what can i get out of the country for my mates
A.O.B

and we let them get away with it term after term after term... and all because the people have chosen sides... i mean, we "TRUST" politicians to run the country and treat us well, when we don't trust the person that sits next to us WTF???...

You can bicker about red and blue all ya like (and you're doing a mighty fine job too, kinda reminds me of the playground... my dads better than your dad), they bicker like you in the UK, they bicker like you in the US, they bicker like you in just about every country in the world... yet noone tries any alternatives... because they seem too hard... all this rorting ever changes, or can change, is the vote you have every 3 years... it's pathetic... it makes the staunch reds more red and staunch blues more blue and the rest either don't vote, or vote something else because it's red v blue... wash, rinse and repeat... But thanks for the entertainment...

sorry, ranty ranty blah blah... just fed up with people getting shafted for the paper in their pocket...

right on I say, it dosnt matter which side sank the boat, it got sunk, Look at the job helen has now, precured by selling us plenty of UN mindset lashed with good old legislation, lets face it we are a lab experiment, and we are the rats/bugs/monkies/beagles take yer pick.

Its all going on again, its just that this government has only taken a few bags of laundry to be washed, wont be long now till theres plenty of dirty laundry spilling out of the bag.

good on ya mashman

Pedro

Oscar

25th February 2010, 12:37

I,m a biker, always have been, as far as challaneging political crap, it helps keep us all riding, great avatar, why didnt Ii get my photo taken with some of this countries political elite, it would aid my cause no end.

pedro

Still got nuthin' huh?

freedom-wedge

25th February 2010, 12:40

Still got nuthin' huh?

got more of an idea than you anyway it seems

Oscar

25th February 2010, 12:44

got more of an idea than you anyway it seems

Almost a cutting riposte, but as usual lacking any basis in truth.

With your penchant for vacuous verbosity, you could go far in politics.

avgas

25th February 2010, 12:48

When is it going to stop?

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/heatley-makes-teary-eyed-apology-over-expenses-3378486

Oh please. Not another 'tearjerker' apology.

It's bad enough getting caught ripping us off but the crybaby stuff and tearfull act might fool ya boss and his acolytes but even Rodders never tried that one.

What a disgrace of a Government this one is. :weird:

Skyryder
Never mind the politicians there is only truth in their stories. I have put strippers on company credit cards before, paying back for stuff is all ok.
But thank you for reminding me not to read the NZ 'news' until I am a dribbling mess and piss my own pants.
The only 'press' was the fart building between my cheeks......which turned out to have more substance than 99% of the news I have had heard this year.

freedom-wedge

25th February 2010, 12:54

Almost a cutting riposte, but as usual lacking any basis in truth.

With your penchant for vacuous verbosity, you could go far in politics.

says you but then again your only interested in your own opinions, youre lacking ballance would be my call, ya know a cyclops, and as for the other waffle, i dont think you really know what those words mean or how to string them for positive use

MSTRS

25th February 2010, 13:03

At least this one has fallen on his sword.
Pollies doing that has been a rare thing in the last few years.
Whether it turns out to be window dressing remains to be seen.

freedom-wedge

25th February 2010, 13:17

At least this one has fallen on his sword.
Pollies doing that has been a rare thing in the last few years.
Whether it turns out to be window dressing remains to be seen.

I think there needed to be a bit more sword falling from the crew on the last shift. I would go with the window dressing, hes already been set up with somthing new me thinks

Oscar

25th February 2010, 13:28

says you but then again your only interested in your own opinions, youre lacking ballance would be my call, ya know a cyclops, and as for the other waffle, i dont think you really know what those words mean or how to string them for positive use

I can be positive:
It's positively rich when someone who can't spell "balance", use a comma, apostrophe or a capital letter accuses me of not knowing the meaning of words.

In your short stint here you have developed a habit of blurting out inane new-age drivel on any subject.
This is followed by a steadfast refusal to back up your ravings with anything resembling a fact.

I would imagine you are fairly high on the Labour list, then...?

avgas

25th February 2010, 13:35

I would imagine you are fairly high on the Labour list, then...?
Nah I am placing him in Greens or Greenpeace.
I notice he wasn't in the SS thread yet.

SPman

25th February 2010, 13:38

Yeah, just saw that. Good to see he is accepting the responsibility for his mistake. What mistake! What responsibility! He was fired, probably for something more serious than rorting credit cards. He shouldn't have done it in the first place!
Like Police, MP's should be setting and abiding by high standards, as well paid public officials. Is it any wonder people rort the system when they have examples from the top, down, creaming it for all they're worth.

Oscar

25th February 2010, 13:39

Nah I am placing him in Greens or Greenpeace.
I notice he wasn't in the SS thread yet.

SS thread?

SPman

25th February 2010, 13:44

Exactly, he has gone honourably, the difference being that National party people have a keener sense of etiquette.:lol: :lol::rofl::rofl::rofl::moon::no::no:

HenryDorsetCase

25th February 2010, 13:44

I can be positive:
It's positively rich when someone who can't spell "balance", use a comma, apostrophe or a capital letter accuses me of not knowing the meaning of words.

In your short stint here you have developed a habit of blurting out inane new-age drivel on any subject.
This is followed by a steadfast refusal to back up your ravings with anything resembling a fact.

I would imagine you are fairly high on the Labour list, then...?

oooohhhhh cutting..... :D

avgas

25th February 2010, 13:45

SS thread?
Sea Shepard vs Japan (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/116454-Fail-Sea-Shepherd?highlight=sea+shepard)

HenryDorsetCase

25th February 2010, 13:46

SS thread?

they did have the best uniforms.

http://hollywoodprop.com/Allgemeine-SSa.jpg

Oscar

25th February 2010, 14:15

Well dressed and ruthlessly efficient.

mashman

25th February 2010, 14:28

Well dressed and ruthlessly efficient.

Sounds like our Nazional front...

Oscar

25th February 2010, 14:34

Well dressed?
Hardly...

jim.cox

25th February 2010, 14:34

they did have the best uniforms.

Not Comapred to These Fine Chaps

198421

mashman

25th February 2010, 14:45

Well dressed?
Hardly...

Depends on your perspective.

motor_mayhem

25th February 2010, 15:25

Yeah - Like ol Philip Field that STILL has'nt done anything wrong according to labour who still stand behind the corrupt fucker. Thats worse than a urban myth - its outright deliberate lies.

No need to explain it to them - its not in their DNA to understand. Look at their history - or for shits and giggles their brothers in the UK.

IN Nat - 2 small mistakes gets your ass fired. Labour - you dont get fired - simply moved to backbenches for a wee while then promoted again.

And if you're Hone then you get a holiday and then the opportunity to do a bit more spending

freedom-wedge

25th February 2010, 16:28

Skyryder

25th February 2010, 18:50

same old same old, change the record chummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmP

It’s Key who is playing the same old tune. LIE DANCING. You know that 's when everyone stands in line and does the same thing.

The kids game is called FOLLOW THE LEADER.

Chump that:shit:

Skyryder

Skyryder

25th February 2010, 18:59

OK I'll bite
1. We don't need the Skyhawks anymore because no foriegn power needs to take NZ by force, the nats will happily sell them whatever they want.

2. You really are a homophobe, aren't you? How will you handle it if a gay person wants to buy ohlins bits?

The other side of the coin is that they were just to dammed expensive to operate and maintain not to mention close to obselete and replacing them was simply out of the question. As for Taylors 'first line of defence' that is just bullsit. The current SAM's at the time would have the Skyhawks out of the sky before they knew what hit them.

Skyryder

Skyryder

25th February 2010, 19:21

Best you get over to "The Standard" with all the other lefty lickspittles....No story here...get over it.
nice pic of Clark on your profile

Ok, I see you are calling for the lynch mob when a National MP spent what, less than $2000? Out of random impertinent curiosity, what was your reaction when the Labour government stole $800,000 of public funding for electioneering purposes despite receiving and acknowledging advice from the Electoral Commission that it was going to be counted?

Disgrace?

These guys are learners compared to the last lot.
Have any Ministers so far:

Pissed in a Hotel hallway?
Been caught DIC?
Signed a painting that wasn't theirs?
Allowed their drivers to take the rap for speeding motorcades?

Glass houses 'n all:yes:

and thats not even starting on all the lies / cover ups to keep Winston happy.

Defending that witch on that basis holds as much water as a collander.
She signed someone else's painting. Doesn't matter what the cause was. If her signature was/is so valuable, she should have signed a blank piece of paper and auctioned that.
And no-one can use the 'she was just a passenger' argument. The CEO is NEVER just a passenger.

You mean the nasty calculating piece of work that callously got rid of our first line of defence ( A4s ) and all of the support infrastructure. She ( it ) deserves nothing less than the most horrible death imaginable, and I REALLY MEAN THAT.

This Government isnt perfect but at least it has people in it with business experience and sense, and is not full of gays and lesbians like the Labour party. I hope those bastards are never in power again.

Is that the same Dyson that one election day several elections ago deliberately drove the family car for some considerable time to run it out of petrol? So her husband couldnt get to the poliing booth and vote National.....
I hope he has subsequently divorced the bitch.

BACK SEAT DRIVER MORE LIKE, it knew exactly how fast they were going, it was calling the shots. It wasnt prepared to man up and admit to it.

The point is we got rid of a proud institution and renegged on the deal of the century for those F16s. At least wed show wed have the intent to defend ourselves.

Point 2 was a dig at Chris Carter, a brazen poofter if ever there was, and a hopeless minister of the crown. I have customers that are gay but unlike Chris Carter they keep it to themselves.

That she is a bitch?

Which is exactly what that witch used to hide behind.
I suppose you'll be telling us next that the driver tapped her on the shoulder and said he was "just going for a spin, and would s/he like to come along".
Take a centre-fire rifle, cut the stock off and half the barrel. Now it's magically a pistol. According to the law. But really, it's just cosmetic.

Yeah - Like ol Philip Field that STILL has'nt done anything wrong according to labour who still stand behind the corrupt fucker. Thats worse than a urban myth - its outright deliberate lies.

No need to explain it to them - its not in their DNA to understand. Look at their history - or for shits and giggles their brothers in the UK.

IN Nat - 2 small mistakes gets your ass fired. Labour - you dont get fired - simply moved to backbenches for a wee while then promoted again.

Never mind the politicians there is only truth in their stories. I have put strippers on company credit cards before, paying back for stuff is all ok.
But thank you for reminding me not to read the NZ 'news' until I am a dribbling mess and piss my own pants.
The only 'press' was the fart building between my cheeks......which turned out to have more substance than 99% of the news I have had heard this year.

Is this the best ya all can comeup with. Not one has even tried to defend these rorts becasue they can not be defended with any credibility. Like just look at some of this. It's embarressing.

Skyryder

Robert Taylor

25th February 2010, 19:28

HenryDorsetCase

25th February 2010, 19:35

The other side of the coin is that they were just to dammed expensive to operate and maintain not to mention close to obselete and replacing them was simply out of the question. As for Taylors 'first line of defence' that is just bullsit. The current SAM's at the time would have the Skyhawks out of the sky before they knew what hit them.

Skyryder

werent we offered the hell deal on F-16's? F-16s are cool. I would approve my taxpayer dollars being spent on them, rather than, say, your salary.

HenryDorsetCase

25th February 2010, 19:36

Is this the best ya all can comeup with. Not one has even tried to defend these rorts becasue they can not be defended with any credibility. Like just look at some of this. It's embarressing.

Skyryder

Surely the point is:

1. The SS had bitchin' uniforms; and

2. Heatley the twat did the decent thing and resigned.

End of story, yes?

HenryDorsetCase

25th February 2010, 19:36

Skyryder

25th February 2010, 19:46

S'alright. Skyryder will be along shortly to explain how this is rubbish.

Rubbish it is too. Like he’s making out it’s over a couple bottles of wine. This guy was up to his neck in the housing rort few months back…………..remember. He’s an old hand at this……………..but he got caught……again……..and now he’s all tear jerky and what a nice honourable guy etc. What load of old codswallop.

And no wonder Key is pissed off. Worth ‘is’ forced to resign due to Key’s ‘bad pressing’ the man and it turns out that Worth had done nothing wrong.

Key goes into bat for Heatley ‘we all make stupid mistakes’ then Heatley resigns making Key look like the dick he is. I think Heatley resignation is a measure of not only the type of person that this Government is made up of but the resignation shows how little control Key has over his Ministers.

And why did Key drop everything and rush to Wellington? Not the sort of thing that a Statesman Prime Minister would do is it.

Has the Auditor General found something and Key is off looking at damage control?

Skyryder

25th February 2010, 19:49

Surely the point is:

1. The SS had bitchin' uniforms; and

2. Heatley the twat did the decent thing and resigned.

End of story, yes?

Auditor General only knows that answer.

Skyryder

Robert Taylor

25th February 2010, 20:18

werent we offered the hell deal on F-16's? F-16s are cool. I would approve my taxpayer dollars being spent on them, rather than, say, your salary.

And a whole generation of young schoolboys have been deprived of the spectacal of seeing them in the air. That really sucks.

Swampdonkey

25th February 2010, 20:27

Ok Skyrider ,you got your scalp.
He was doing a great job bringing aquacultre up out of the pits......Fixing all of Andertons fuck ups,honestly nine years of hardships for us in the industry. still wont change the polls any.

peasea

25th February 2010, 21:02

Surely the point is:

1. The SS had bitchin' uniforms; and

And nothing else matters.

pete376403

25th February 2010, 21:15

werent we offered the hell deal on F-16's? F-16s are cool. I would approve my taxpayer dollars being spent on them, rather than, say, your salary.

Would the F16s have been, actually, a good deal? They were first meant to go to pakistan, and I read somoewhere that they had most of the 'really cool bits" removed, ie, these were the three-on-the-tree, vinyl bench seat, no heater base model (to use an automotive analogy). To get them into any sort of shape where they could have been any more than window dressing would have cost a whole lot more. In that case, they would be as you worte, a hell deal, anyway.
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article14.html

JimO

25th February 2010, 21:20

It’s Key who is playing the same old tune. LIE DANCING. You know that 's when everyone stands in line and does the same thing.

The kids game is called FOLLOW THE LEADER.

Chump that:shit:

Skyryder

whatever you say comrade........do you work?? if so what do you do

Pascal

26th February 2010, 06:18

Is this the best ya all can comeup with. Not one has even tried to defend these rorts becasue they can not be defended with any credibility. Like just look at some of this. It's embarressing.

First rule of being a socialist. If you can't argue the point, pretend the person you are discussing things with have no point. Lie. Obfuscate. Attempt to twist away. Helen Clark showed us how that worked for 9 long years of lies and corruption. Skyryder is following her mantra perfectly.

However, I believe the reason nobody is jumping to defend the relatively minor over spend is because:

(a) It was an honest mistake
(b) The person has apologised and accepted responsibility for their misconduct

I know this is a foreign concept for most fervent Labour / Green party supporters, but to the majority of right thinking people the kind of petty point scoring you're engaging in is just that. Petty. Childish. And part of the reason your corrupt pack of liars got voted out last election and will, hopefully, stay out of power for a damn long time.

Pixie

26th February 2010, 07:18

Exactly, he has gone honourably, the difference being that National party people have a keener sense of etiquette.

I don't think the "H" word can be used to describe a New Zealand politician.
And I don't believe he resigned only over what has been discovered so far.

Pixie

26th February 2010, 07:24

davereid

26th February 2010, 07:33

I don't believe he resigned only over what has been discovered so far.

I'm with you there. I bet he has done summint else that will be revealed in the fullness of time. Having already fallen on his sword, he will possibly get away with it.

MSTRS

26th February 2010, 07:58

Not one has even tried to defend these rorts becasue they can not be defended with any credibility.

However, I believe the reason nobody is jumping to defend the relatively minor over spend is because:

(a) It was an honest mistake
(b) The person has apologised and accepted responsibility for their misconduct

Can't defend this sort of behaviour. Doesn't matter what stripe the polly is painted with.
And in this guy's case, it appears more than a 'simple mistake', anyway. Media reports that '2 bottles of wine were purchased on the CC and expense was claimed as dinner'...that is deliberate, not a mistake. The difference in this case is that he resigned when caught, unlike the crimson crowd...

freedom-wedge

26th February 2010, 12:02

Is this the best ya all can comeup with. Not one has even tried to defend these rorts becasue they can not be defended with any credibility. Like just look at some of this. It's embarressing.

Skyryder

I agree with you man, its an outrage alright, just the tip of it showing at the moment to, there will be more, people here cant connect this behaviour with the ACC agenda of late and the other agendas on the way.

MSTRS

26th February 2010, 12:04

One look at Nick the Prick's face tells you what is important to him.

freedom-wedge

26th February 2010, 12:08

I don't think the "H" word can be used to describe a New Zealand politician.
And I don't believe he resigned only over what has been discovered so far.

this is more to the point,

avgas

26th February 2010, 12:14

Heh I do enjoy you here Skyrider.
I love the fact you are trying to slam Nat's and promote Labour. Then expect us to defend the Nats.
I love the fact that you believe politicians will be anything but slimy sharks. Regardless of colour.
I love how naive you are about politicians (even labours) - a true martyr.

I personally am fed up with Politics, SSDD as far as I am concerned. We pay them too much to just sit down and poke fun at each other.
But alas that is marketing.......which is what politics has become.

Skyryder

26th February 2010, 12:33

First rule of being a socialist. If you can't argue the point, pretend the person you are discussing things with have no point. Lie. Obfuscate. Attempt to twist away. Helen Clark showed us how that worked for 9 long years of lies and corruption. Skyryder is following her mantra perfectly.

However, I believe the reason nobody is jumping to defend the relatively minor over spend is because:

(a) It was an honest mistake
(b) The person has apologised and accepted responsibility for their misconduct

Obfuscation………..bollocks. Nothing bewildering about my posts. They are to the point and in most cases very clear.

There goes that Clarke name again. Strange how she always turns up in threads totally unrelated to her.

(a) Honest mistake my arse. Disgraced former minister Phil Heatley was repeatedly warned by officials about his ministerial credit card use, new documents reveal. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3376202/Housing-Minister-Phil-Heatley-was-warned-before

Note ‘repeatedly warned’

(b) The only reason Phil (I relay am a dumb fucker) Heatley apologized is to con New Zealanders of his repentance. He would still be rorting the system if the media had not found out what he and rorter Brownley were up to.

Skyryder

Skyryder

26th February 2010, 12:38

I agree with you man, its an outrage alright, just the tip of it showing at the moment to, there will be more, people here cant connect this behaviour with the ACC agenda of late and the other agendas on the way.

Yea that's a bit of a mystery to me to. It's not only Nick Smith who is upping the ACC levies but the whole fucking lot of them are right up there supporting this. They slag Smith and rightly so, but defend some little arsed up prick who has risen above his station in life for dishonesty. Bikers..................we are a strange lot.

Skyryder

SPman

26th February 2010, 17:16

. And part of the reason your corrupt pack of liars got voted out last election and will, hopefully, stay out of power for a damn long time. ...to be replaced by an even more corrupt pack of liars, who's bald faced cheek and arrogance would be comical if it weren't so serious! Labour did a shit load of things that were bad, but the current load of muppets are going all out to do more damage to society, in favour of themselves in 2 yrs, than the others did in 9...they seem to be trying to outdo Douglas, Richardson and Shipley combined, with their inept, arrogant, corrupt, lying behaviour!

Skyryder

26th February 2010, 17:37

Yeah and the pinkos' shit doesn't stink

I once worked on a sewage farm...................but I confess that your knowledge on this subject is far greater than mine. Unlike ya self I never got that close to the poos.

Skyryder

JimO

26th February 2010, 17:39

I once worked on a sewage farm...................but I confess that your knowledge on this subject is far greater than mine. Unlike ya self I never got that close to the poos.

Skyryder
you sure??????????? you seem to be full of shit

Skyryder

26th February 2010, 18:03

you sure??????????? you seem to be full of shit

The only shit on here is the pathetic excuses the Nats give for their kind when found out rorting the taxpayer.

I couldn't not help but notice Key on the news tonight not so up front with Heatlely's defence as in the past. In fact he was in retreat mode. I wonder what he knows that we don't.

Heatley is saying that he will be on the back benches for sometime. Key implies that he will be back if the A G finds nothing wrong.

Sometimes JJ ya gota look past the shit but that is difficult when your own shit blinds you as much as yours does to yourself

Skyryder

avgas

26th February 2010, 18:10

Why is there even a back bench? Is that incase the key players get an injury and then they have to call in someone from the bench.
No offense Skyrider. But your shit seems to stink as bad as everyone else's shit. If parliament is so full of shit why not just setup a water treatment plant.

JimO

26th February 2010, 18:14

Sometimes JJ ya gota look past the shit but that is difficult when your own shit blinds you as much as yours does to yourself

Skyryder

bla bla national bla bla bla key bla bla

Skyryder

26th February 2010, 18:16

Skyryder

26th February 2010, 18:18

bla bla national bla bla bla key bla bla

Ya gotta learn to spell. It's bye bye National and bye bye Key.:yes:

Skyryder

avgas

26th February 2010, 18:22

There aint none left. The irrigators have it all.:jerry:
Skyryder
Precisely my point - you can't get blood from a stone.
But I am willing to try to get water from a politician. Who knows mabey the do sweat when you get them to do some work for once.

avgas

26th February 2010, 18:22

Ya gotta learn to spell. It's bye bye National and bye bye Key.:yes:
Skyryder
Hello Anal rapist champion No. #2

Oscar

26th February 2010, 19:30

The only shit on here is the pathetic excuses the Nats give for their kind when found out rorting the taxpayer.

I couldn't not help but notice Key on the news tonight not so up front with Heatlely's defence as in the past. In fact he was in retreat mode. I wonder what he knows that we don't.

Heatley is saying that he will be on the back benches for sometime. Key implies that he will be back if the A G finds nothing wrong.

Sometimes JJ ya gota look past the shit but that is difficult when your own shit blinds you as much as yours does to yourself

Skyryder

What excuses?
He was wrong, he knew it, and he resigned.
I realise this is odd behaviour after 9 years of Labour arrogance, but here we have someone taking personal responsibility.

Ronin

26th February 2010, 20:14

Skyryder

27th February 2010, 11:47

A couple of interesting points in this thread.

1. Someone with Free Scott Watson is his sig is perhaps under qualified as a judge of character
2. National, Labour et al. All different sides of the same coin.
3. The only efficient way to run the country is to bring back Finn

So you think the man(Pope) who put Watson where he is today is of a sounder character? A man who claimed that Watrson was not a suspect when in fact he was. Jeeeez i could go on on this one but this is not the thread for it. I'd put more trust in Key than I would with Pope....................and that saying something.

Skyryder

Skyryder

27th February 2010, 11:54

What excuses?
He was wrong, he knew it, and he resigned.
I realise this is odd behaviour after 9 years of Labour arrogance, but here we have someone taking personal responsibility.

Are you blind?? take a look at all the Nat apologists and their posts.

He got caught and only resigned when found out.

Personal responsability my arse. He was doing a housing rort and now he's tried another one and even after repeated warnings he still kept at it. It's mindset thing. Fuck the taxpayer I'll shaft them for all they are worth.........................................casu e they are just the plebes...............and don't know any better

Skyryder

Fub@r

27th February 2010, 12:48

Are you blind?? take a look at all the Nat apologists and their posts.

He got caught and only resigned when found out.

Personal responsability my arse. He was doing a housing rort and now he's tried another one and even after repeated warnings he still kept at it. It's mindset thing. Fuck the taxpayer I'll shaft them for all they are worth.........................................casu e they are just the plebes...............and don't know any better

Skyryder

Don't worry it looks like the books will be opened on all ministers including Labor's 9 years...........will be interesting.

But seeing Skyryder would have us believe that National started it........I would say they were following Labor's lead:

Shane Jones has revealed he reimbursed money put on his ministerial credit card on at least one occasion - a dinner he hosted for some architects.

Mr Jones said yesterday that he had paid back money to Ministerial Services related to the meal he hosted as Building Minister in 2008

His admission precedes the release of the records of former Labour ministers' credit cards

He got caught and only resigned when found out.

Shane Jones broke the rules but comes clean before the release of details of Labour expenditure 2 yrs later. Wonder how many more will get caught out.

Pascal

2nd March 2010, 07:04

Tracy Watkins has an interesting take (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/politics/3379732/MPs-run-out-of-places-to-hide) on it.

It seems that none of this came up under the Labour government was because instead of being honest and providing an itemised bill, as the transparent National government has done, they provided a summary total to Official Information Act requests. Thus neatly obfuscating the real truth of how much Labour rorted the tax payer.

Thank fuck National is at least more honest and upfront than the Labour party. And thank fuck they're at least willing to take responsibility for their actions.

I know this is bad according to Skyryder, but I personally would prefer a political party that does not lie, does not obfuscate the truth and is willing to take responsibiltiy for their mistakes.

freedom-wedge

2nd March 2010, 07:51

Swoop

2nd March 2010, 08:25

Thank fuck National is at least more honest and upfront than the Labour party. And thank fuck they're at least willing to take responsibility for their actions.
Now there is a concept that has been missing for the last 9 years.

It seems liarbour has mastered the art of hiding the truth... Cullen's handling of the financial area comes to mind with the missing BILLIONS and the total inability to balance a set of scales, let alone a budget for an entire country.

No wonder so many liarbour MP's resigned from politics after the last election! They knew that their future was fucked once the books were opened.

Ronin

2nd March 2010, 08:35

I,m sure that some people thought that about they who advocated for Arthur Alan Thomas.

Your right about issue No 2 though.

And 3... Number 3 is important

freedom-wedge

2nd March 2010, 08:35

Now there is a concept that has been missing for the last 9 years.

It seems liarbour has mastered the art of hiding the truth... Cullen's handling of the financial area comes to mind with the missing BILLIONS and the total inability to balance a set of scales, let alone a budget for an entire country.

No wonder so many liarbour MP's resigned from politics after the last election! They knew that their future was fucked once the books were opened.

This is so right on that its scary, I dont think we have got over that shambles yet and many unfortunatley are clinging to the raft of the new lot, I,m sure time will show that agenda's are still the same, just different mechanisms are being employed. I suppose you would have to give the nats 9 years to compare, sadly I dont think it will take that long.

freedom-wedge

2nd March 2010, 08:38

And 3... Number 3 is important

look I,m way out of my depth on No 3.

Pascal

2nd March 2010, 09:13

This is so right on that its scary, I dont think we have got over that shambles yet and many unfortunatley are clinging to the raft of the new lot, I,m sure time will show that agenda's are still the same, just different mechanisms are being employed. I suppose you would have to give the nats 9 years to compare, sadly I dont think it will take that long.

And yet, despite the recession and being handed a country in terrible shape thanks to our incompetent previous government, confidence is heading up, more New Zealanders are staying here than are leaving and in general things appear to be on the up and up.

Are the agendas really the same or is that simply the last gasps of a dying religion?

SS90

2nd March 2010, 09:59

And yet, despite the recession and being handed a country in terrible shape thanks to our incompetent previous government, confidence is heading up, more New Zealanders are staying here than are leaving and in general things appear to be on the up and up.

Are the agendas really the same or is that simply the last gasps of a dying religion?

Correct.

I am no fan of having New Zelands prime minister having the nick name "the smiling assassin", as it goes to show his self serving money grubbing attitude to working class stiffs.

(we are expendable?)

Yes, he is doing the same hatchet job on the country.

But, let's face the facts, the world is in the financial shitter, and, some really hard decisions have to be made.

One person who will be profiting from these "cuts", will indeed be Mr Key, and his family, and their friends, and their friends tennis partner, and his maid, and so on, but that is the reality of it.

Just like the USA that Obama inherited (not drawing comparisons here), Mr Key can neither be blamed for the state it is in, nor attacked for the policies he is having to make "for the good of the country"

If the country was in better shape, YES, they would still be making self serving legislation (you may well find one of Key's international business mates sets up a health insurance company after they vote to privatise ACC........ don't be surprised), but, just at the moment there are several things that have to be done "for the good of the country", and National will be unpopular, as would Labour if they where at the helm when this all came about.

Labour could, (and should) have taken steps to curb the out of control housing market, and that clearly would have lessened the blow of the global crisis, but, the majority of MP's are independently wealthy, and, by in large, that came about from residential property speculation...... why would they have pissed in their own pot, let alone their mates!

Yes, this National government is going to continue to make legislation that increases their private wealth, don't doubt it for a second, but at the same time they are going to be making some legislation that won't pay off until later.

Pascal

2nd March 2010, 10:22

One person who will be profiting from these "cuts", will indeed be Mr Key, and his family, and their friends, and their friends tennis partner, and his maid, and so on, but that is the reality of it.

Along with the rest of NZ.

It is easy to interpret measures by National to stem the headlong rush to bankruptcy Labour caused as self-serving. Reality is, somebody needs to stand up, take control and reign back the mentality of government pays for everything by taxing the fuck out of almost everyone. Those years of golden surpluses that were wasted are not here anymore. There will be hard hits. I don't consider this National government to be the same as the previous National government.

Oscar

2nd March 2010, 10:25

Along with the rest of NZ.

It is easy to interpret measures by National to stem the headlong rush to bankruptcy Labour caused as self-serving. Reality is, somebody needs to stand up, take control and reign back the mentality of government pays for everything by taxing the fuck out of almost everyone. Those years of golden surpluses that were wasted are not here anymore. There will be hard hits. I don't consider this National government to be the same as the previous National government.

They also need to reign in the years of social engineering.
Paying an underclass to breed is not the way to prosperity.

avgas

2nd March 2010, 10:26

One by one, they jumped.... but will they ever all be gone? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/02/labour-day-resignation-jacqui-smith)

Oscar

2nd March 2010, 10:27

One by one, they jumped.... but will they ever all be gone? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/02/labour-day-resignation-jacqui-smith)

Quando omni flunkus moritati

Bald Eagle

2nd March 2010, 10:34

more New Zealanders are staying here than are leaving ?

Thats because we can't afford the departure tax :lol:

SS90

2nd March 2010, 23:45

Thats because we can't afford the departure tax :lol:

No, departure tax has been removed, well, it has form Auckland airport anyway.....

SPman

3rd March 2010, 15:08

Along with the rest of NZ.

. There will be hard hits. I don't consider this National government to be the same as the previous National government.
No - they are worse, and stupider!
Looking forward to the good times of the 80's and 90's, eh, decades that saw NZ slide down the gurgler...........

avgas

3rd March 2010, 15:35

Quando omni flunkus moritati
Haha sounds good. The annoying this is if they try that people may not realise how little work they do

Swoop

3rd March 2010, 16:07

Looking forward to the good times of the 80's and 90's, eh, decades that saw NZ slide down the gurgler...........
Well, we have had 9 years of golden opportunity to improve and advance the nation. Unfortunately this period has been wasted, money thrown away on utter rubbish, social engineering poisoning the country, and the future generations of the nation being left to carry the burden.
No wonder this government has their work cut out for them.

Let's look forward to a second term, eh?:blip:

Drunken Monkey

3rd March 2010, 16:56

No, departure tax has been removed, well, it has form Auckland airport anyway.....

No, it's now included in the ticket price like every other airport and country in the world has done for like the last 10+ years.

Pascal

4th March 2010, 05:52

Looking forward to the good times of the 80's and 90's, eh, decades that saw NZ slide down the gurgler...........

You're thinking of the 1990's benefit cuts under National?

When they saved the country from a $5,000,000,000 deficit, left to them by the previous Labour government? You know - a whopping 19% of Crown Income at the time. It's thanks to the tough calls they had to make then as NOW that the Labour party had a decade of surpluses to waste away.

History repeating itself?

oldrider

4th March 2010, 09:08

Its my bet that Labour and the Greens won't be bashing the table demanding an investigation of credit card usage by M.Ps, and their electorate staff.

You would have to be amazingly naive to assume that this particular rort was only just invented....

Surely you are not accusing "Skyryder" of "selectively" highlighting political rorting by non Liabour politicians?

That would be like suggesting he suffers from some closet political "bias"! :shit: Shame on you! :lol:

SPman

4th March 2010, 13:43

You're thinking of the 1990's benefit cuts under National?

When they saved the country from a $5,000,000,000 deficit, left to them by the previous Labour government? You know - a whopping 19% of Crown Income at the time. It's thanks to the tough calls they had to make then as NOW that the Labour party had a decade of surpluses to waste away.

History repeating itself? A Labour Government in name only! The same arseholes trying to call some of the shots now. I notice the Nats didn't recind any of Roger Douglas's policies, but built on them, to effectively fuck NZ in relation to most other countries in the OECD.

Pascal

5th March 2010, 05:38

The same arseholes trying to call some of the shots now. I notice the Nats didn't recind any of Roger Douglas's policies, but built on them, to effectively fuck NZ in relation to most other countries in the OECD.

I would like to point out to you that the last decade has seen a Labour government in power. National has been in for what, a year? Don't expect any change to happen over night. It will take them time to undo the fuckups of the Labour government.

freedom-wedge

7th March 2010, 08:14

Skyryder

7th March 2010, 08:48

McClay qualifies for 12 taxpayer-subsidised domestic flights a year with a 90% subsidy but it is alleged he has been double dipping - taking the flights and also invoicing charities for the driving mileage costs.
From

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/documents-seized-in-mcclay-investigation-3395972/video

Once again I'm amazed at those that defend this man when it is 'alleged' that the very same person has been rorting them.

Still , excuses excuses.

Skyryder

oldrider

7th March 2010, 09:30

Sorry it took me a while to respond, I had to take a long think about your last comment, I suppose your right in a way, Labour had started to behave more like fundamentalists, in layman’s terms they certainly fed NZ a lot they knew was not good, I worry these days about the beurocrats that are not voted out by an election who keep on steaming with certain agenda, the buzzwords change but the desired outcome doesn’t. The current Gov are supporting manoeuvres to lesson public impact on the decision making process in many area’s, removing our voice when it becomes to obstructive or costly, The previous lot were equally aware and added supreme arrogance to the mix. I think if anything is slowly dying, it is the right to be defiant in the face of absurdity no matter who is leading

True!

It's getting easier for them to stay in the trough and harder for us to remove them!

Voted out and straight back in by the back door! MMP = Mickey Mouse Politics!

Skyryder

7th March 2010, 13:44

True!

It's getting easier for them to stay in the trough and harder for us to remove them!

Voted out and straight back in by the back door! MMP = Mickey Mouse Politics!

One of the fundamentals of MMP was that Electorate MP’s could be on the party list. While this does appear to be unfair the purpose of this was to maintain some degree of experience in Parliament. One does not have to look far with the current government to see how MP’s with little or no experience perform.

Skyryder

MSTRS

7th March 2010, 14:01

oldrider

7th March 2010, 15:42

One of the fundamentals of MMP was that Electorate MP’s could be on the party list. While this does appear to be unfair the purpose of this was to maintain some degree of experience in Parliament. One does not have to look far with the current government to see how MP’s with little or no experience perform.

Skyryder

C'mon, nobody can really tell the difference between the government of the last nine years and the current one!

Or even the last 50 years for that matter!

The net result is, everything costs "us" more!

MMP is a formula for mediocrity and the current politicians are milking it for all it is worth!

There will be a referendum on MMP but there will be no change, except to secure benefits for the politicians themselves!

Pascal

9th March 2010, 06:44

I think if anything is slowly dying, it is the right to be defiant in the face of absurdity no matter who is leading

No, it is not. We live in a democracy. We can vote in anybody we choose. I'd certainly never cast a vote for a Labour government again. And it's looking highly unlikely that I'd vote for a National government either. I agree with a few of the Green party's policies, but because they're such Labour party lapdogs and so far removed from their core principles I don't consider them a good choice. Although, now that Bradford is gone they might actually start moving away from their Communist tendencies and start focussing on what they're good at.

If enough of us STOP voting for National / Labour, they won't be in power. You can't get a clearer message than that.

But, you have to deal with voter apathy, the blind partisanship of some (Looks at Skyryder) and so forth. It's not going to happen easily.

Skyryder

9th March 2010, 10:34

But, you have to deal with voter apathy, the blind partisanship of some (Looks at Skyryder) and so forth. It's not going to happen easily.

The problem with the above is that you link both voter apathy with myself who still adheres to his core political values. I take great pride that I am not a ‘swinging voter’ who is manipulated by PR and ‘spin.’

You clearly have not been following my posts. I was and still am a fierce critic of Labour’s China Trade Agreement that the Nats have also endorsed.

I have on occasions been critical of Goffs leadership as well.

That is hardly the blind partisanship you accuse me of.

Skyryder

MisterD

9th March 2010, 11:03

now that Bradford is gone they might actually start moving away from their Communist tendencies and start focussing on what they're good at.

I seriously doubt that. If anything it's the departure of Jeanette "Mrs Nice" Fitzsimmons that will see them move further towards being hard-left finge loonies. I've $10 says they won't be in the next parliament.

If enough of us STOP voting for National / Labour, they won't be in power. You can't get a clearer message than that.

But, you have to deal with voter apathy, the blind partisanship of some (Looks at Skyryder) and so forth. It's not going to happen easily.

The problem is that a decent chunk of the main parties respective votes are people picking the lesser of two evils and voting against the other party...

SPman

9th March 2010, 13:54

But, you have to deal with voter apathy, the blind partisanship of some (Looks at Skyryder) and so forth. It's not going to happen easily. Blind partisanship! I think not! Perhaps, like a lot of people who believe in a fair and equitable society, his utterances may seem, to those who disagree with them, as such. If he is anything like me, he will have found many of the actions of the last Labour government contrary to that position and spoken out against them (he did). Personally, I consider the last Labour Government to have moved to a centre right, authoritarian position and was appalled at many of the actions they took, selling out some of, what I would consider core values, to please or attempt to bribe sections of voters, who would never normally vote for them, and alienating many of those who would normally vote for them.
I didn't vote for them, but then, the party I did vote for, sold out for a few trinkets, so they are fucked, as well, as far as I'm concerned. Labour however, still have a better regard for working people and did more for them during their tenure, than many "anti Helen" shrills would ever admit.

The fact that the Right wing media (and yes, like most "Western" countries these days, the mainstream media in NZ is decidedly right wing, money focussed, inane and authoritarian) is even starting to sometimes question the fringes of many of the more bizarre, ill considered, greedy and corrupt legislation being carried out, or proposed by the current government, shows just how incompetently bad they are!
And speaking of corruption.....the Nats used it blithely to describe the Labs (They aren't right and left, they are centre right/even more right) over......election spending (which affected every party)....speeding tickets......charity paintings.........etc etc, and were "PC gone mad" and "Nanny state", for bringing in conservation measures like water saving shower heads and efficient light bulbs and bringing in laws to prevent "smacking' kids being used as an out for serious assaults, yet, when the Nats have Rodney engineer a coup for business to take over Auckland as a fore runner to mass privatisations, propose to raise GST on everyone so they can cut the top tax rate for their mates, propose to mine conservation land to the benefit of a few business colleagues, have business interests in firms that will profit in new legislation (Canterbury, watch out, you are going to get a taste of Auckland's woes very soon) and generally blatantly bluster, lie and dissemble about every bill they've passed (usually under urgency, so no one can examine them closely before they are raced through the house), the response you get from our friends on the right is ‘Big deal, Politicians lie, get over it’
From the outside looking in, NZ politics is fast becoming a very dysfunctional and disturbing scenario, with the foxes in charge of the hen house while the hens squabble over a few grains of wheat - and hens don't normally do too well in those conditions.............

MisterD

9th March 2010, 14:42

Jaysus, I hardly know where to start....

Personally, I consider the last Labour Government to have moved to a centre right, authoritarian position and was appalled at many of the actions they took, selling out some of, what I would consider core values, to please or attempt to bribe sections of voters, who would never normally vote for them, and alienating many of those who would normally vote for them.

How you can possibly describe a party that taxed and spent our money with the gusto that Clark and Cullen exhibited as "centre-right" mystifies me. They might have been right of your politics but this National lot are barely the right (in both senses) side of the centre line.

The fact that the Right wing media (and yes, like most "Western" countries these days, the mainstream media in NZ is decidedly right wing,

Oh come off it, the western world has a single right-wing media outlet in Fox news...coincidentally rated the most trustworthy media outlet.

And speaking of corruption.....the Nats used it blithely to describe the Labs (They aren't right and left, they are centre right/even more right) over......election spending (which affected every party)....speeding tickets......charity paintings.........etc etc, and were "PC gone mad" and "Nanny state", for bringing in conservation measures like water saving shower heads and efficient light bulbs and bringing in laws to prevent "smacking' kids being used as an out for serious assaults, yet, when the Nats have Rodney engineer a coup for business to take over Auckland as a fore runner to mass privatisations, propose to raise GST on everyone so they can cut the top tax rate for their mates, propose to mine conservation land to the benefit of a few business colleagues, have business interests in firms that will profit in new legislation (Canterbury, watch out, you are going to get a taste of Auckland's woes very soon) and generally blatantly bluster, lie and dissemble about every bill they've passed (usually under urgency, so no one can examine them closely before they are raced through the house), the response you get from our friends on the right is ‘Big deal, Politicians lie, get over it’
From the outside looking in, NZ politics is fast becoming a very dysfunctional and disturbing scenario, with the foxes in charge of the hen house while the hens squabble over a few grains of wheat - and hens don't normally do too well in those conditions.............

Right-oh...keep taking the meds SP

avgas

9th March 2010, 15:15

Oh lord this thread is the best laugh ever.
Its like peas telling carrots they are too bland.

Skyryder

9th March 2010, 19:47

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3351860/Environment-Canterbury-faces-the-axe

There has been a long and sustained attack on Ecan starting with Gary Moore and the Chch Council. The overthrow of Burk was nothing more than a gathering of water interests in a coup d’état. The chicanery of some councilors in this matter is on record. Now that they see the writing on the wall; their removal and replaced by a commissioner all but one are vehemently opposed to the Creech report. Pat Harrow who has recently been subject to a conflict of interest review, (cleared) is the only councilor in favor of a commissioner.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Creech report is nothing more than an excuse by this govt to usurp the role of a democratically elected regional in favour of the water interests of Canterbury. Similar charges have been leveled at Hide in respect of what he is doing in Auckland; subverting the democratic process. Add this along with Key’s comments that the Nat’s are going to ‘remove the roadblocks to Canterbury’s water and SPman’s comments in respect of devolving the democratic institutions of Canterbury’s local body government has a ring of truth.

It's pretty obvious to me who' taking the meds on here . They need to come off as whatever they are on is fogging their judgment of reality and reason

Skyryder

Robert Taylor

9th March 2010, 19:58

oh lord this thread is the best laugh ever.
Its like peas telling carrots they are too bland.

for me its great to see the pseudo marxists squirm, and about friggin time

Pascal

10th March 2010, 05:24

Perhaps, like a lot of people who believe in a fair and equitable society, his utterances may seem, to those who disagree with them, as such.

There you go. Blind. Do you really believe that anybody who doesn't think exactly the same as you does not necessarily believe in a fair and equitable society? Are you that fucking dumb? It would seem so. Just reading your Labour party talking points in the next paragraph makes me realise that there is nothing worth discussing with somebody who has their head so far up their own arse that they can't think or see a different perspective. You're sold on the ideas of:

National = privatisations
Cut tax = for rich mates
Mining on conservation lands = for business interest

Do you realize what a one eyed shill you sound like? Fuck man.

Pascal

10th March 2010, 05:27

You clearly have not been following my posts. ....
That is hardly the blind partisanship you accuse me of.

I see you as a blind partisan BECAUSE I've been reading your posts.

freedom-wedge

10th March 2010, 07:22

No, it is not. We live in a democracy. We can vote in anybody we choose. I'd certainly never cast a vote for a Labour government again. And it's looking highly unlikely that I'd vote for a National government either. I agree with a few of the Green party's policies, but because they're such Labour party lapdogs and so far removed from their core principles I don't consider them a good choice. Although, now that Bradford is gone they might actually start moving away from their Communist tendencies and start focussing on what they're good at.

If enough of us STOP voting for National / Labour, they won't be in power. You can't get a clearer message than that.

But, you have to deal with voter apathy, the blind partisanship of some (Looks at Skyryder) and so forth. It's not going to happen easily.

That’s quite right that you can vote for anyone, but really its just folly these days, Your exposed to rampant electioneering, told a whole lot of dribble, you vote or not and that’s it, beyond there is naught but referendum which can be ignored for you to show displeasure. By the time it comes to vote once more the damage is done.
Skyryder is a labour man by the looks, would of been appalled by some of the stunts pulled by them im sure, just as I am of hides efforts to remove vital assets from public ownership, and nothing good will come of it. While we debate surface issues, our new leaders make huge changes in the early hours, under urgency, so many changes so many implications that we know nothing of,. nor can we change this without huge cost. Yes we have freedoms compared to the US and UK and others, but its because they have slowly yielded theirs and have succumbed to the process of the dumbing down of the populace. Soon democracy will be just another word for nothing left to loose.

Pascal

10th March 2010, 07:47

That’s quite right that you can vote for anyone, but really its just folly these days, Your exposed to rampant electioneering, told a whole lot of dribble, you vote or not and that’s it, beyond there is naught but referendum which can be ignored for you to show displeasure. By the time it comes to vote once more the damage is done.

I see the point, but isn't that the whole point of a democracy? The general populace votes and decides what they want to happen. If the majority of them are so apathetic / uncaring / whatever to simply vote for the party that promises them the most, that is simply the system working as intended. However, notice what is happening here. We're talking about it. You are making your thoughts known. I'm making my known. Skyryder / SPMan / whoever are making their points known. That's people discussing politics, the government and so forth. Maybe this will sway one or two people to vote differently. Maybe not. Maybe it will end up snowballing to a point where enough people vote for a non National / non Labour government.

But that vote each of us has is one of the most powerful things in the world. It gives us the power to change things.

Oscar

10th March 2010, 09:13

That’s quite right that you can vote for anyone, but really its just folly these days, Your exposed to rampant electioneering, told a whole lot of dribble, you vote or not and that’s it, beyond there is naught but referendum which can be ignored for you to show displeasure. By the time it comes to vote once more the damage is done.
Skyryder is a labour man by the looks, would of been appalled by some of the stunts pulled by them im sure, just as I am of hides efforts to remove vital assets from public ownership, and nothing good will come of it. While we debate surface issues, our new leaders make huge changes in the early hours, under urgency, so many changes so many implications that we know nothing of,. nor can we change this without huge cost. Yes we have freedoms compared to the US and UK and others, but its because they have slowly yielded theirs and have succumbed to the process of the dumbing down of the populace. Soon democracy will be just another word for nothing left to loose.

Your not a details man, are you?
The whole point of a democracy is the freedom to discuss the issues, yet you continue to make broad generalisations about how it doesn't work.

How about you get more specific?

For example:
Were you referring to the smacking referendum?
It was a debacle and showed how stupid the concept was.
The question asked was confusing.

John Key said before the general election that he wouldn't change the law and won that election. Which takes precedence, the referendum or the general election?

Skyryder

10th March 2010, 09:37

I see you as a blind partisan BECAUSE I've been reading your posts.

OK so how do you equate my 'blind partisanship' with my opposition to Labour's Free Trade Agreement with China?

Skyrder

mashman

10th March 2010, 10:05

But that vote each of us has is one of the most powerful things in the world. It gives us the power to change things.

Did someone mention meds before? A vote is nothing more than a platitude these days... an illusion for those that still believe that we live in a democracy. If we did the anti-smacking bill wouldn't have gone through... but as it was the 80+% that said no, ya know THE VOTERS, THE PEOPLE, got told to sod off because the politicians of the day saw the referendum as nothing more than a, "let's see what they think, after all we don't have to change a thing, irrespective of what people really want"... you were saying what about democracy?

I'm not a political animal, never really will be, but you're all sounding like a bunch of fuckin kids.. my party does things better than your party... he's more honest than him... where in reality political parties are only there as glorified accountants, to make the books look good in our Global Economy (it sickens me to see people valued by the amount of $$$ they generate):

National = privatisations (ACC?)
Cut tax = for rich mates (The rich don't benefit MORE from tax cuts?)
Mining on conservation lands = for business interest (what the fuck are they gonna do with the minerals they remove, adorn their fireplace with them? of course there's business interest)

you were saying something about a "one eyed shill"?

Swoop

10th March 2010, 10:20

I worry these days about the beurocrats that are not voted out...
Also, there are the parasites that infest parliament who are not voted anywhere. The "advisors" "assistants" and a multitude of other positions who need to be removed when their MP goes.

Oscar

10th March 2010, 10:29

Did someone mention meds before? A vote is nothing more than a platitude these days... an illusion for those that still believe that we live in a democracy. If we did the anti-smacking bill wouldn't have gone through... but as it was the 80+% that said no, ya know THE VOTERS, THE PEOPLE, got told to sod off because the politicians of the day saw the referendum as nothing more than a, "let's see what they think, after all we don't have to change a thing, irrespective of what people really want"... you were saying what about democracy?

I'm not a political animal, never really will be, but you're all sounding like a bunch of fuckin kids.. my party does things better than your party... he's more honest than him... where in reality political parties are only there as glorified accountants, to make the books look good in our Global Economy (it sickens me to see people valued by the amount of $$$ they generate):

National = privatisations (ACC?)
Cut tax = for rich mates (The rich don't benefit MORE from tax cuts?)
Mining on conservation lands = for business interest (what the fuck are they gonna do with the minerals they remove, adorn their fireplace with them? of course there's business interest)

you were saying something about a "one eyed shill"?

I don't understand why all the things you mention are automatically bad:

National = privatisations (ACC?)
It has been proven before that parts of ACC are run cheaper and more efficiently by the private sector.

Cut tax = for rich mates (The rich don't benefit MORE from tax cuts?)

Of course, the more money you make, the more you'll get from a tax cut.
But why can't the re-jigging of the tax burden help the economy?
This and other proposed policies appear to be trying to divert more money into savings - real investment in the economy.

Mining on conservation lands = for business interest (what the fuck are they gonna do with the minerals they remove, adorn their fireplace with them? of course there's business interest)

I'm a bit skeptical on this one. On one hand I don't like the idea of mining on conservation land, but there is a kind of a religious fervor evident in NZ greenies when it comes to subjects like this.

mashman

10th March 2010, 11:26

I don't understand why all the things you mention are automatically bad:

I'm not saying they're automatically bad... I was just citing a few examples... But I can make them look bad if you'd prefer...

National = privatisations (ACC?)
It has been proven before that parts of ACC are run cheaper and more efficiently by the private sector.

At what cost? Loss of "skilled" jobs most likely... the introduction of 3rd parties contracted to ACC to provide X services, keeping costs low to start with when quoting for the work available... 3rd party staff will require training, so service will be affected (BAD for the people), private sector generally requires there to be a profit made (BAD for the people)...

Cut tax = for rich mates (The rich don't benefit MORE from tax cuts?)
Of course, the more money you make, the more you'll get from a tax cut.
But why can't the re-jigging of the tax burden help the economy?
This and other proposed policies appear to be trying to divert more money into savings - real investment in the economy.

I'm not saying re-jigging the tax system isn't going to help... but if you're asking people to save... who's going to be spending money? and if there's no money being spent, then how many businesses will fold? The rich could live off of the interest they earn alone if they wanted... why do they need tax cuts or more money for that matter?

So how does saving convert into investment?

Mining on conservation lands = for business interest (what the fuck are they gonna do with the minerals they remove, adorn their fireplace with them? of course there's business interest)
I'm a bit skeptical on this one. On one hand I don't like the idea of mining on conservation land, but there is a kind of a religious fervor evident in NZ greenies when it comes to subjects like this.

If you're skeptical on the mining issue, then you too see the VERY REAL potential down side to this one... heh, the greens have their place and a lot of the time they're not wrong... but to do things the green way takes $$$... unfortunately too much to implement the initiatives from a government stand point... or so we're told...

Again though there are positive counter arguments for my negative ones... there always are when someone doesn't agree with what you say...

Pascal

10th March 2010, 12:37

SPman

10th March 2010, 13:57

If the vote was worth anything- they wouldn't give it to you.......

mashman

10th March 2010, 14:49

If the vote was worth anything- they wouldn't give it to you.......

True (nae bling left)... and oh how we pay for it (and not just financially)...:yes:

freedom-wedge

11th March 2010, 07:26

Your not a details man, are you?
The whole point of a democracy is the freedom to discuss the issues, yet you continue to make broad generalisations about how it doesn't work.

How about you get more specific?

For example:
Were you referring to the smacking referendum?
It was a debacle and showed how stupid the concept was.
The question asked was confusing.

John Key said before the general election that he wouldn't change the law and won that election. Which takes precedence, the referendum or the general election?

I,m not saying democracy dosnt work, I think it just works a whole lot better for some. I,m not refering to the anti smacking bill in general, seen as i make generalisations according to you, I,m refering to any referendum, they are not binding in this country, almost a waste of time. I dont think national won the election, it was handed to them, and given the state of the previous gov it was quite understandable.
Now we have the situation where the robbers in the house, he got in there by telling you he had to read the meter amd we have to wait three years till the robbery in progress is over, why becuase the robbers before had had their day and any robber was better then those robbers.

You say " Which takes precedence, the referendum or the general election" a referendum must surley for it may be the closest thing to gauge the will of the people given the current political structure.

And what of Rodney Hide generally ?? you like him ?? dislike him, whistle blower gets blown sort of thing ?

Obsurdities and rorts are not to be forgotten, this gov are servin them up daily its like yeasterdays ones were clensed by todays even bigger gaff, low level political debate does nothing in these forums, and anyway you use it often to try and prove that you have an intelectual ability oscar which you do but you miss so much at times, that dosnt include my spelling and bad grammar unfortunately.

pedro

freedom-wedge

11th March 2010, 07:32

Ive got to say on reading his posts, Im cheering for the mashman, am I the only one that understands what hes talking about ??

pedro:rockon:

Oscar

11th March 2010, 07:35

I,m not saying democracy dosnt work, I think it just works a whole lot better for some. I,m not refering to the anti smacking bill in general, seen as i make generalisations according to you, I,m refering to any referendum, they are not binding in this country, almost a waste of time. I dont think national won the election, it was handed to them, and given the state of the previous gov it was quite understandable.
Now we have the situation where the robbers in the house, he got in there by telling you he had to read the meter amd we have to wait three years till the robbery in progress is over, why becuase the robbers before had had their day and any robber was better then those robbers.

You say " Which takes precedence, the referendum or the general election" a referendum must surley for it may be the closest thing to gauge the will of the people given the current political structure.

And what of Rodney Hide generally ?? you like him ?? dislike him, whistle blower gets blown sort of thing ?

Obsurdities and rorts are not to be forgotten, this gov are servin them up daily its like yeasterdays ones were clensed by todays even bigger gaff, low level political debate does nothing in these forums, and anyway you use it often to try and prove that you have an intelectual ability oscar which you do but you miss so much at times, that dosnt include my spelling and bad grammar unfortunately.

pedro

More randomness.

You meander through a couple of half baked statements and then say that this is not the forum to debate them. Come back when you've upped the dosage, decreased the dosage, or given yerself five uppercuts to clear you head.

Oscar

11th March 2010, 07:46

I'm not saying they're automatically bad... I was just citing a few examples... But I can make them look bad if you'd prefer...

At what cost? Loss of "skilled" jobs most likely... the introduction of 3rd parties contracted to ACC to provide X services, keeping costs low to start with when quoting for the work available... 3rd party staff will require training, so service will be affected (BAD for the people), private sector generally requires there to be a profit made (BAD for the people)...

The last change to ACC caused jobs in the insurance industry to increase, and since the work is similar to what they're already doing, little or no change to traing or infrastructure is required.

As for profit, why is that automatically bad? It's the lack of a profit or efficiency driver that makes govt. agencies like ACC so inefficient.

I'm not saying re-jigging the tax system isn't going to help... but if you're asking people to save... who's going to be spending money? and if there's no money being spent, then how many businesses will fold? The rich could live off of the interest they earn alone if they wanted... why do they need tax cuts or more money for that matter?

So how does saving convert into investment?

NZ needs local investment both to drive and secure the economy. The way we're structured at the moment, local investment goes into houses and banks use overseas money to invest in business.

Again though there are positive counter arguments for my negative ones... there always are when someone doesn't agree with what you say...

My point entirely. There's a bunch of people here making vague statements about how the system doesn't work, or how this party or that party is at fault - but there's not a whole lot of facts being served up.

And the fact that there is always someone with a contrary view indicates a healthy democracy.

mashman

11th March 2010, 10:16

The last change to ACC caused jobs in the insurance industry to increase, and since the work is similar to what they're already doing, little or no change to traing or infrastructure is required.

There are other areas, ACC stated as part of their 08/09 financial review that they would be looking into 3rd party providers as opposed to training staff at ACC (because it could take 6 months)... they then go on to say that these 3rd parties will be trained and monitored etc... so why not train the ACC staff then? So ACC COULD lose staff...

As far as i'm concerned that shows a lack of ambition to bring the system into the 21st century... it seems that it's easier to outsource, to pass the "problems/blame" on to someone else... what's the point of having ACC if it's outsourcing "core" business... may as well just go straight to the insurance company and be done with it.

As for profit, why is that automatically bad? It's the lack of a profit or efficiency driver that makes govt. agencies like ACC so inefficient.

True, it's not automatically bad... hopefully i didn't say it was... BUT... these are the things that stun me. Profit is a driver for government... why? what ever happened to doing your best?, ya know, doing ya job because there are others relying on you to do just that... in this case, a whole fucking country full of them... The way I see it, it's a lack of a want to do anything any better that screws efficiency, tweaking and tinkering is not the way to move forwards... the lack of ability to say, this isn't working, let's stop now and try it again, but we'll think about it this time... our lords and masters know that they don't have to do FUCK ALL, because that's just politics man... you just need to make promises, make noises and blame the last lot for the problems... If it was that bad, then the shadow cabinet have not done their jobs properly and should have NEVER become the next govt... stands to reason really and yet noone seems to have noticed and even more rarely voices the FACT.

Just my point of view and just some of my observations...

NZ needs local investment both to drive and secure the economy. The way we're structured at the moment, local investment goes into houses and banks use overseas money to invest in business.

I agree in so many ways... but if you haven't got a big population, have low salaries and a high cost of living, then there's hardly anything left to save... then your local investment has to come from overseas... costs more, round and round we go again... Something needs to change... the financial investment cycle has been shown not to work (it takes about 20 years before a recession hits?), inflation, cost of living, INTEREST etc... all of these things force prices up, people spend more on the same stuff, using the same amount of cash (because the employer refuses to give a pay rise) and have nothing to save... you just can't combat that cycle as it's ingrained in human culture... at that point, getting local investment will take more than just people saving... again though, that's just a take from the negative side...

My point entirely. There's a bunch of people here making vague statements about how the system doesn't work, or how this party or that party is at fault - but there's not a whole lot of facts being served up.

And the fact that there is always someone with a contrary view indicates a healthy democracy.

ha ha ha, you almost seemed surprised at the lack of factual evidence... the funny thing is, the system doesn't work... if it did there'd be nothing to discuss... facts when talking politics (snigger)... it's all statistics and conjecture... and after watching what the govt have been throwing at their people in regards to ACC, what the hell do facts have to do with running a country? looks like nothing to me...

Democracy is dead, has been for decades if not centuries... although it is nice to see some still hold on to it's existence...

freedom-wedge

12th March 2010, 06:58

More randomness.

You meander through a couple of half baked statements and then say that this is not the forum to debate them. Come back when you've upped the dosage, decreased the dosage, or given yerself five uppercuts to clear you head.

I wasn’t sure before but now I know your just an arse wipe, you and your nazi mate in the other thread, posting pics of an ss officer and you waffling and joking, about their ruthless efficiency, you probably got the video of an officer just like that killing three Jewish people in a line with one 9mm luger round, how efficient aye, and probably subscribe to the order of it didn’t happen anyway you fucking clown or do you want me to post the entire history for you Shmittenzi dog. Yawn

freedom-wedge

12th March 2010, 07:10

I see the point, but isn't that the whole point of a democracy? The general populace votes and decides what they want to happen. If the majority of them are so apathetic / uncaring / whatever to simply vote for the party that promises them the most, that is simply the system working as intended. However, notice what is happening here. We're talking about it. You are making your thoughts known. I'm making my known. Skyryder / SPMan / whoever are making their points known. That's people discussing politics, the government and so forth. Maybe this will sway one or two people to vote differently. Maybe not. Maybe it will end up snowballing to a point where enough people vote for a non National / non Labour government.

But that vote each of us has is one of the most powerful things in the world. It gives us the power to change things.

If I hadnt witnessed the demise of the power of the vote in the last 20 I could almost beleive in this, and by way of demise I mean the choices availabe on which to vote. I,m all for finding an alternative to the big players however I dont think they serve us well, anyway Johns gonna be busy in the minning industry soon his job will be open.

freedom-wedge

12th March 2010, 07:21

ha ha ha, you almost seemed surprised at the lack of factual evidence... the funny thing is, the system doesn't work... if it did there'd be nothing to discuss... facts when talking politics (snigger)... it's all statistics and conjecture... and after watching what the govt have been throwing at their people in regards to ACC, what the hell do facts have to do with running a country? looks like nothing to me...

Democracy is dead, has been for decades if not centuries... although it is nice to see some still hold on to it's existence...[/QUOTE]

One of my points, everyone assumes that the facts and figures presented by Smith to justify ACC hikes are correct. Of course they are the Govment created them.

Oscar

12th March 2010, 09:29

I wasn’t sure before but now I know your just an arse wipe, you and your nazi mate in the other thread, posting pics of an ss officer and you waffling and joking, about their ruthless efficiency, you probably got the video of an officer just like that killing three Jewish people in a line with one 9mm luger round, how efficient aye, and probably subscribe to the order of it didn’t happen anyway you fucking clown or do you want me to post the entire history for you Shmittenzi dog. Yawn

Godwin strikes again:Punk:

Ps.

You're
eh

avgas

12th March 2010, 10:07

And the fact that there is always someone with a contrary view indicates a healthy democracy.
You do know the definition of a compromise don't you.....
Both members lose. May be not a lot, may be 1 more than the other.
but BOTH LOSE

MisterD

12th March 2010, 11:22

You do know the definition of a compromise don't you.....
Both members lose. May be not a lot, may be 1 more than the other.
but BOTH LOSE

...and the definition of "democracy" is everyone agreeing to do what the leader wants.

puddytat

12th March 2010, 11:51

NZ needs local investment both to drive and secure the economy. The way we're structured at the moment, local investment goes into houses and banks use overseas money to invest in business.

.

Be a good idea to invest" our" pension fund in"our" country for a start......wouldnt've lost anywhere near as much as we did in the" GFC" if we had, instead of the arms industries & dodgy overseas banks & companies.
Seems crazy to invest it off shore, then borrow to fund development here, or worse still get foriegn companies to do all the work(i.e, in mining & oil exploration).....Here's an idea, lets invest in our education system,then we wouldnt need to import all this foreign expertise because of the lack of "skilled workers".
There's some fella running a country somwhere round here, who was once a foreign currency trader I believe...his breath stinks of Uranium too.

MisterD

12th March 2010, 12:07

Be a good idea to invest" our" pension fund in"our" country for a start......wouldnt've lost anywhere near as much as we did in the" GFC" if we had, instead of the arms industries & dodgy overseas banks & companies.
Seems crazy to invest it off shore, then borrow to fund development here, or worse still get foriegn companies to do all the work(i.e, in mining & oil exploration).....Here's an idea, lets invest in our education system,then we wouldnt need to import all this foreign expertise because of the lack of "skilled workers".
There's some fella running a country somwhere round here, who was once a foreign currency trader I believe...his breath stinks of Uranium too.

So I guess you missed the part about the fund managers being independent of political interference and the bit where the Liarbour party got all hot under the collar when the new government gave them some instructions to invest a proportion in local projects and companies?

I also hope that anyone who thinks it's bad that our PM has shares in a company that has uranium-mining interests, will never be going on holiday to Australia, because obviously that's endorsing a country that has a pretty big interest in that element too. Morons.