New Yellow Flag Rules?

[CHOPPA]

Stationary yellow.

theres a crash or something well off the track though keep racing at 99%, you can pass lapped riders but not for position

Waved yellow.

theres a crash or something and its very close to the track or on it, no passing at all should be a red flag soon


Watch AMA supercross they have it sorted they can still jump on a yellow unless its waved works well and pretty much what happens anyway


on first and last lap of practice there should be a different colour flag The slowest guy starts first in practice, its not like everyone aint gonna pass and if there is a crash on the first lap a rider needs to know that the yellow is for a crash not just showing you where the marshal is

[Shaun]

Stationary yellow.

theres a crash or something well off the track though keep racing at 99%, you can pass lapped riders but not for position

Waved yellow.

theres a crash or something and its very close to the track or on it, no passing at all should be a red flag soon


Watch AMA supercross they have it sorted they can still jump on a yellow unless its waved works well and pretty much what happens anyway


on first and last lap of practice there should be a different colour flag The slowest guy starts first in practice, its not like everyone aint gonna pass and if there is a crash on the first lap a rider needs to know that the yellow is for a crash not just showing you where the marshal is



Have you been thinking or just using drugs mate

[codgyoleracer]

Choppa !. its hard enough training some of the guys to know the basics of the flag rules now , let alone confusing em with even more variations of the same colour flag....... :-)

[scrivy]

At the end of the day, when you see a yellow flag, it usually means there's shit up ahead. If we all value our survival, we should slow the f@ck down. No one is allowed to pass you, so you can't lose a position by slowing down. Everybody is in the same boat. All it takes is for 1 munter to have a bad accident during a yellow flag situation, and then we need to use a red flag which ruins everybodies day!
Sidecar riders know it's also to be used if your passenger is having difficulties or has bailed. I reckon it should also be for your bike incase you're losing fluids or dragging something. That would save a poor sod doing a full lap before he gets a black flag............

[jellywrestler]

Are you serious, is this not how it already supposed to work? this is common sense and one of the comedies of the paeroa event, or at least it could have been if it wasn't such a serious issue, was the flag marshall at the hairpin, and the kink before.
Two bikes, trying to get going again 30metres onto the main straight, no flags, parked bike for many laps as far off the line as one could get, yellow flag waving and the marshall on the kink before put his flag out too, bike and rider down, exit of hairpin in middle of the road, yellow flag waving and the marshall on the kink before put his flag out too my point being is there was no consistency therefore the riders didn't know how serious the incident from the flag marshall.

[MSTRS]

Are you serious, is this not how it already supposed to work? this is common sense and one of the comedies of the paeroa event, or at least it could have been if it wasn't such a serious issue, was the flag marshall at the hairpin, and the kink before.
Two bikes, trying to get going again 30metres onto the main straight, no flags, parked bike for many laps as far off the line as one could get, yellow flag waving and the marshall on the kink before put his flag out too, bike and rider down, exit of hairpin in middle of the road, yellow flag waving and the marshall on the kink before put his flag out too my point being is there was no consistency therefore the riders didn't know how serious the incident from the flag marshall.

That is all down to the marshalls involved. I couldn't say whether those particular ones had any experience, but it doesn't sound like it. The other factor is how the club involved runs their marshall program.
Let's put it this way...I won't ever marshal for AMCC again.

[scrivy]

It all comes back to no training for the majority of flaggies.

It will have to come. And as riders of increasingly faster machines, it will have to happen very very soon......

[yungatart]

Its already happening, Scrivvy.
PMCC train marshalls, and have a very experienced crew, other clubs request the use of PMCC marshalls, now too. Training works and ensures consistency of marshall performance, as you well know.
IMO, it is a good thing.

[FROSTY]

The flag rules are there and pretty clearcut. Everybody involved needs to learn the existing flag rules.
This discussion rears its ugly head every time theres a race incident involving flags.

[Peter Smith]

What really suprises me is when riders that have MNZ competition licenses start asking about the different flags at events.
I think alot of riders need to re-read their MNZ book.
I think Frosty's thread suggesting riders be tested before getting their licenses was a great idea.

[Dutchee]

One thing they have at moto gp (Aus, at least) is what all the flags mean in the programme.
I thought/think that's a great idea as some of the flags aren't used that often (water, oil on track are what spring to mind, as I hadn't seen/noticed them before).
The other one that's not obvious is the black flag with orange circle in it. Not sure if all the flags are used here, as have only seen green, yellow, red here (interesting to see the white flag means the riders are allowed to change machines per GP rules).

[MSTRS]

One thing they have at moto gp (Aus, at least) is what all the flags mean in the programme.
I thought/think that's a great idea as some of the flags aren't used that often (water, oil on track are what spring to mind, as I hadn't seen/noticed them before).
The other one that's not obvious is the black flag with orange circle in it. Not sure if all the flags are used here, as have only seen green, yellow, red here (interesting to see the white flag means the riders are allowed to change machines per GP rules).

Flags at the Start/Finish line include many more scenarios. For marshal points there are usually 4 used.
Yellow - Held means take care but nothing dire. Waved means more imminent problem, prepare to stop.
Yellow/Red - means fluids or debris on the track.
Blue - usually waved, means slower rider about to be overtaken so s/he should hold their line.
Red - usually waved, means race is stopped, drop off pace, and return to dummy grid.

[pipson]

Flags at the Start/Finish line include many more scenarios. For marshal points there are usually 4 used.
Yellow - Held means take care but nothing dire. Waved means more imminent problem, prepare to stop.
Yellow/Red - means fluids or debris on the track.
Blue - usually waved, means slower rider about to be overtaken so s/he should hold their line.
Red - usually waved, means race is stopped, drop off pace, and return to dummy grid.

The yellow / red also means ducks at Manfeild.

[woodyracer]

The yellow / red also means ducks at Manfeild.

im guessing nigel told you that one....ahahha

[pipson]

im guessing nigel told you that one....ahahha

No I have seen them just miss a F2 bikes front wheel & used it for then.

[JayRacer37]

The yellow / red also means ducks at Manfeild.

Cos ducks are a bit like oil - slippery when squished.

[Grumpy]

I think alot of riders need to re-read their MNZ book.
I think Frosty's thread suggesting riders be tested before getting their licenses was a great idea.
Some years ago when I applied for a car competiton license I had to sit a small test and was quizzed on the flags. Then my first meeting at Puke they threw a short oral test at you before documentation. I had been warned this was likely to happen so you could bet I knew them pretty well. Damn good idea.

[pipson]

Cos ducks are a bit like oil - slippery when squished.

Yes then it & the rider would be debris.

[Jabez]

Flags at the Start/Finish line include many more scenarios. For marshal points there are usually 4 used.
Yellow - Held means take care but nothing dire. Waved means more imminent problem, prepare to stop.
Yellow/Red - means fluids or debris on the track.
Blue - usually waved, means slower rider about to be overtaken so s/he should hold their line.
Red - usually waved, means race is stopped, drop off pace, and return to dummy grid.
As far as I am aware, the only flag that is waved is the Yellow for above reason (mainly Marshals/Rider/bike on track), all others are stationary.

[pipson]

As far as I am aware, the only flag that is waved is the Yellow for above reason (mainly Marshals/Rider/bike on track), all others are stationary.

No all can & should be waved at the appropriate times

[Rcktfsh]

Some years ago when I applied for a car competiton license I had to sit a small test and was quizzed on the flags. Then my first meeting at Puke they threw a short oral test at you before documentation. I had been warned this was likely to happen so you could bet I knew them pretty well. Damn good idea.

They test you before getting a car race licence and then often randomly quiz you on flags at sign in, laughed one day when Kenny Smith had to have a couple of goes to pass.

[Skunk]

One thing they have at moto gp (Aus, at least) is what all the flags mean in the programme.
I thought/think that's a great idea as some of the flags aren't used that often (water, oil on track are what spring to mind, as I hadn't seen/noticed them before).
The other one that's not obvious is the black flag with orange circle in it. Not sure if all the flags are used here, as have only seen green, yellow, red here (interesting to see the white flag means the riders are allowed to change machines per GP rules).

We go to the effort of printing all the requirements (flags, start procedure, red flag procedure, who does what, prizegiving - everything) and it amazes me how many don't bother to read it and prefer to wander around asking questions.

[It's a good game to send them to the wrong person, who sends them to the wrong person, etc when the answer is in their programme all along :lol: ]

[nigela]

If you want to see how flags should be done properly come to manfeild this weekend.
The best in the business are on the the points
No I'm not biased
And I will happily discus any issues with you on Saturday night

[ellipsis]

This seems to be an apt thread to say thanks to Steve Orpwood and his crew of flaggies who front up to run the track at our CAMS meetings ,rain or burning sun, control what happens on the track, want bugger all in return and do it for their love of it all, and are about as professional in their approach to the task as you could wish for.

It takes so much pressure off the club , not having to continuously hustle round finding people to fill in a flag spot, who probably shouldn't be out there doing the job anyway, but its all done so we all get a days racing in, and I bet this happens at club days all over the country, at a lot of events. We are lucky to have Steve and his crew turn up, cheers.

[MSTRS]

As far as I am aware, the only flag that is waved is the Yellow for above reason (mainly Marshals/Rider/bike on track), all others are stationary.

Depends on the immediacy of the problem being signalled. Have a read through this thread. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/104122-Flags-colours-and-their-use)

[CHOPPA]

I never said i dont know the yellow flag rules i just think you should be able to pass lapped riders under a stationary yellow.

In ozzy they do a test over the phone to get your licence and in Jnr Mx in NZ you have to get tested to get a national mnz licence

[scott411]

and in Jnr Mx in NZ you have to get tested to get a national mnz licence


thats news to me choppa, i have never seen a junior tested, i think everyone should be tested, and with the online liceising now it would be pretty easy to do, i think it really riders should be tested everynow and then,

[FROSTY]

Chopper I couldn't disagree more strongly.NO passing meand NO passing. PERIOD. Allow what you are proposing and the no passing rule might as well be tossed out the window altogether.
If I was running a meeting I wouldn't care who it was that did the passing. Stroudy,Buggy whoever they would be black flagged or disqualified.
I don't believe in rules just for the sake of being the "big man" the rules were developed over a long time in order to make this sport of ours as safe as possible.

[pipson]

Chopper I couldn't disagree more strongly.NO passing meand NO passing. PERIOD. Allow what you are proposing and the no passing rule might as well be tossed out the window altogether.
If I was running a meeting I wouldn't care who it was that did the passing. Stroudy,Buggy whoever they would be black flagged or disqualified.
I don't believe in rules just for the sake of being the "big man" the rules were developed over a long time in order to make this sport of ours as safe as possible.

Well said, no passing means no passing.

[Gremlin]

each club / organiser can have different rules around flags. AMCC, only the yellow is ever waved. Hamptons ride days even has a system where a half rolled red is used to get a specific bike to return to the pits.

[pipson]

I never said i dont know the yellow flag rules i just think you should be able to pass lapped riders under a stationary yellow.

In ozzy they do a test over the phone to get your licence and in Jnr Mx in NZ you have to get tested to get a national mnz licence

If passing was allowed the marshal would then have to put a blue flag out as well. The slower rider would then have to watch for you (the faster rider) the other problem (the yelow flag) & most important going around the corner.

[MSTRS]

each club / organiser can have different rules around flags. AMCC, only the yellow is ever waved. Hamptons ride days even has a system where a half rolled red is used to get a specific bike to return to the pits.

Rules are set by MNZ...any club that does different is wrong. One of the reasons I won't ever marshal for AMCC (once was enough for me) - arrogant tossers that make things up on the spot and will not listen to anyone.
That is not to say that MNZ are right. Just the rules are set by them to be followed.
A ride day is not usually under MNZ, so they can do what they like. But it's my opinion that they should use the standard rules.

[FROSTY]

each club / organiser can have different rules around flags. AMCC, only the yellow is ever waved. Hamptons ride days even has a system where a half rolled red is used to get a specific bike to return to the pits. Sorry mate but NO this is EXACTLY where the issue lies. The flag use rules are clear cut. Club "interpretting" the rules is asking for an accident to happen. The discussion had on this subject. a few months ago quite frankly horrified me.
Put in plain english--If you DON'T know,understand what the flags mean you should NOT be on the track -as a rider or a flaggie.
Incidently I do not believe that AMCC use "just" the yellow flag.-Its always preferable to keep the bikes going round n round whenever possible but a full course red is definitely used


Just to qualify this -Track days are not RACE meetings. With track days because you are dealing with the general public the flags are "dumbed down" --No point in waving the meatball flag when 95% of riders don't know what it means.

[FROSTY]

MSTRS--It would be fantastic if you relayed your experiences to the race comittee of AMCC. If you prefer I'm happy to pass the info on to them. The current comittee is fairlly new and DEFINITELY open to constructive criticism.


Re ride days I'm not convinced but only because as I said above if theres too many flkags the publicv just aint goinna understand.

[MSTRS]

I believe they've been told. But with what seems to have been the case with marshals at Paeroa, they aren't listening...
Ride days - I think the oil/debris flag could be dropped. Just wave te yellow for anything other than 'get off'. The blue would be very useful.

Have a word with Pretty Billie, and ask her about marshals standing just off the track, and picking up bikes/riders without clearing the track first, and using an ambo flag as a red, and no extinguishers. Utter insanity.

[Gremlin]

Incidently I do not believe that AMCC use "just" the yellow flag.-Its always preferable to keep the bikes going round n round whenever possible but a full course red is definitely used
Most certainly not, my reference was purely to the yellow. It is the only flag we wave, the rest are held stationary only. Up to 5 flags are used at points, yellow, blue, red, oil (or more suitably, slippery surface) and ambo. S/F has even more, black, green, white, checkered etc.

I believe they've been told. But with what seems to have been the case with marshals at Paeroa, they aren't listening...
Ride days - I think the oil/debris flag could be dropped. Just wave te yellow for anything other than 'get off'. The blue would be very useful.
I think anyone at Taupo heard your comments... many times over etc. and your comments and advice was listened to... seems you weren't doing the listening if thats your opinion. Blue has been dropped from ART days to reduce complexity, mostly aimed at the people not used to being on track. Star certainly seemed to approve the operation...

Have a word with Pretty Billie, and ask her about marshals standing just off the track, and picking up bikes/riders without clearing the track first, and using an ambo flag as a red, and no extinguishers. Utter insanity.
All due respect etc, you'd be better off talking to someone who actually has a large amount of experience, or someone that has actually marshalled. 1-2 seasons, and some events per season does not constitute experience. The comment re extinguishers is laughable. Every event I have marshalled at in the last 5 or so seasons (and I have marshalled almost every one - missing one or two days a season), there have been extinguishers. It is true at Taupo however, those extinguishers appeared to be out of date, and the issue was raised.

Your comment about clearing the track first has been heard before... sometime around the point you swore and shouted at other marshalls, hardly a constructive behaviour. Someone else, higher than a marshall, witnessed your outburst at the beginning of the day, and saw no issue. Ambo flags are not used in replacement of the red either, and are displayed where possible, where there is an ambulance on track, to warn the riders. Obviously, this most likely co-incides with the use of the red.

I am well aware of your procedure regarding a rider down, and in my personal opinion, it is more dangerous and introduces unnecessary delays. If a practise/race needs to be stopped, then it certainly is, but it is not necessary for all incidents. The incidents at Paeroa last year and this, under your rules, would have had more serious injuries. Riders on fire and riders trapped under sidecars, under your rules, would be left until all racers had exited the track. In plain english... stuff that. :shit: My duty is to ensure my safety first, then attend riders, then bikes. If it is safe to attend, then I will, regardless of whether bikes have exited the track (unless ruled otherwise by officials, obviously).

Just a little disclaimer, as most are aware I marshal for AMCC and other organisations... I speak for no-one but myself and its all my own personal opinion.

[jellywrestler]

Ride days - I think the oil/debris flag could be dropped. Just wave te yellow for anything other than 'get off'. The blue would be very useful.

.
Dont drop the oil flag at all. This will indicate that aside from the oil/debris issue, which wont change each lap, that the corner is the same. If you are already using a yellow to indicate oil etc then someone goes down the riders aren't warned enough and may only expect what was there on the last lap and get a surprise. As for the blue flag, i assume you mean passing, no no no, that only confuses people and they panic or move about and cause more trouble.

[MSTRS]

Most certainly not, my reference was purely to the yellow. It is the only flag we wave, the rest are held stationary only. Up to 5 flags are used at points, yellow, blue, red, oil (or more suitably, slippery surface) and ambo. S/F has even more, black, green, white, checkered etc.

I think anyone at Taupo heard your comments... many times over etc. and your comments and advice was listened to... ............

All due respect etc, you'd be better off talking to someone who actually has a large amount of experience, or someone that has actually marshalled. ........... Every event I have marshalled at in the last 5 or so seasons (and I have marshalled almost every one - missing one or two days a season), there have been extinguishers. It is true at Taupo however, those extinguishers appeared to be out of date, and the issue was raised.

Your comment about clearing the track first has been heard before... sometime around the point you swore and shouted at other marshalls, hardly a constructive behaviour. Someone else, higher than a marshall, witnessed your outburst at the beginning of the day, and saw no issue. Ambo flags are not used in replacement of the red either, and are displayed where possible, where there is an ambulance on track, to warn the riders. Obviously, this most likely co-incides with the use of the red.
I am well aware of your procedure regarding a rider down, and in my personal opinion, it is more dangerous and introduces unnecessary delays. If a practise/race needs to be stopped, then it certainly is, but it is not necessary for all incidents. The incidents at Paeroa last year and this, under your rules, would have had more serious injuries. Riders on fire and riders trapped under sidecars, under your rules, would be left until all racers had exited the track.


I was not issued a blue flag, nor a red.
If my comments were 'listened to' then tell us all - and it wasn't just me either, at briefing - why was I still instructed to marshal on the grass inside turn 4?
And it was at that point, out on the track, that I swore. Because I had already stated what I was prepared to do, and was ignored. I had already agreed to forego a family funeral in Taupo so that racing could continue with enough marshals.
Marshals going to clear bike/s or riders down...of course we do. But not until the red is out at all points. And no way, when bikes are still circulating at warp speed. Which is what we were told to do. Being told to 'drop everything and just go' is NOT the way to do it.
If PB was not very experienced, then WTF was she doing in charge of marshals?
You are right about the extinguishers - I guess someone decided to run without them. If those ones belonged to the track, then I hope they were given the message.
Anyway, I was primed to react badly, because I'd already been warned how AMCC events were run, by others who refuse to have anything to do with them. What I saw etc, just confirmed they were right. And I'm not likely to attend again in future, because of that.

[MSTRS]

Dont drop the oil flag at all. This will indicate that aside from the oil/debris issue, which wont change each lap, that the corner is the same. If you are already using a yellow to indicate oil etc then someone goes down the riders aren't warned enough and may only expect what was there on the last lap and get a surprise. As for the blue flag, i assume you mean passing, no no no, that only confuses people and they panic or move about and cause more trouble.
Point. I don't know whether any flag can be dropped, then. Then blue is also important. It is used to tell a slower rider to hold their line, as a MUCH faster rider is about to overtake. Why would the slow rider panic and move about?

[Gremlin]

I was not issued a blue flag, nor a red.
If my comments were 'listened to' then tell us all - and it wasn't just me either, at briefing - why was I still instructed to marshal on the grass inside turn 4?
And it was at that point, out on the track, that I swore. Because I had already stated what I was prepared to do, and was ignored. I had already agreed to forego a family funeral in Taupo so that racing could continue with enough marshals.
Marshals going to clear bike/s or riders down...of course we do. But not until the red is out at all points. And no way, when bikes are still circulating at warp speed. Which is what we were told to do. Being told to 'drop everything and just go' is NOT the way to do it.
If PB was not very experienced, then WTF was she doing in charge of marshals?
You are right about the extinguishers - I guess someone decided to run without them. If those ones belonged to the track, then I hope they were given the message.
Anyway, I was primed to react badly, because I'd already been warned how AMCC events were run, by others who refuse to have anything to do with them. What I saw etc, just confirmed they were right. And I'm not likely to attend again in future, because of that.
You were not issued with any flags, as you were meant to be at Point 4. You set yourself up on the hairpin. Now, there was a geniune error there, the marshal meant to be at the hairpin (said, actual point 7, being called point 6) mistakenly went to the real point 6, hence why the hairpin didn't have marshals until you went there, hence why you didn't have any gear etc. Lesson learnt, AMCC would probably use both points (my opinion obviously), based on marshal feedback. You were listened to in regards which points to run, I remember that clearly. I didn't listen to you all day, so not sure what other advice you gave. Remembering that listening to advice doesn't mean we have to obey it to the letter, but its certainly taken under advisement.

Point 4 was a safe place to marshal. Perhaps not to you, used to sitting in a tower, but it was the inside of the behind, a decent distance from the preceding bend (a left hander). You certainly wouldn't have been told to stand on the outside of point 4. Funeral, nice of you to stay to help obviously, but irrelevant in the matter of the track, if you follow. Re safety, you certainly don't just blindly run across the track. Your safety is first, getting the relevant flag out is next, then assessing when it is safe to attend.

I'm not sure how you thought PB was in charge of the marshals, she most certainly isn't, and I was never told to report to her or anything. I believe she is in some role on the road race committee, but the AMCC newsletter thing clearly states Angela Vernon as the chief flag marshal (who briefs us, arranges marshals for each event etc).

It certainly does sound like you arrived with a preconceived notion, which probably wouldn't have helped, and may have assisted in missing the postives, and seeing the negatives (the way a human mind works).

[MSTRS]

Actually, I was assigned to point 3. The tower backs onto point 9 at the end of the main straight. The 'other' marshal there set up on the grass on the inside of that right-hander. I refused. As I had stated I would do, at what passed for the briefing. And it most definitely was PB who appeared to be in charge. It was she who came out to see what the fuss was about at point 3. She re-assigned me to point 7, which I had no problem with, except I then had no gear or radio. At least I had my cell phone and could call my wife, who did have a radio, to get stuff sent out to me.

[Gremlin]

Sorry, point 3, turn 4

different people are in charge of different things, ie, "god" (affectionate nickname - clarke of the course or something I think) was someone else again.

[pipson]

Actually, I was assigned to point 3. The tower backs onto point 9 at the end of the main straight. The 'other' marshal there set up on the grass on the inside of that right-hander. I refused. As I had stated I would do, at what passed for the briefing. And it most definitely was PB who appeared to be in charge. It was she who came out to see what the fuss was about at point 3. She re-assigned me to point 7, which I had no problem with, except I then had no gear or radio. At least I had my cell phone and could call my wife, who did have a radio, to get stuff sent out to me.

The young lady that was walking the track with us ( before racing) said she was the chief flag marshal. The tall chap that was with us at the time said the cages or point are for car races not bike races & we AMCC stand on the edge of the track. Who ever put the flags & extinguishers put point 1 & the end of the fence & not in the designated point 1. I was on point 2 that backs on to point 1 I have seen in other races bikes crash at turn 3 & slid to with in meters of where they wonted you to marshal. I saw a marshal cross the track 3 times during 1 race the rider was mot injured. The marshals on that point mush have good life insurance. When we got back from the walk we showed every one that had not been to Taupo before where the points that are put in place by Taupo Motorsport were as per the map out side the office by the pits. This was my first & last time for AMCC.

[Jabez]

OK, I stand corrected on the blue flag:
Blue Waved Road Racing: Overtaking signal warning rider is about to be overtaken.
Blue Held Stationary Road Racing: Indicates that competitor is soon to be overtaken.

But what is the difference between these two situations (Rider/competitor & About/soon)?? This is badly worded (ambiguous)!

[Gremlin]

I just hold it out stationary to the slow rider.

The way we are told is... given to slow rider as a warning that faster riders are coming up, hold your line and prepare to be overtaken.

The reality is... the rider does their best to get out of the way, which realistically makes it a bit more dangerous, but usually facilitates the faster rider(s) getting through quicker.

[CHOPPA]

Im sure you guys have your eyes closed because everyone passes everyone on the first lap of practice under yellow and all the fast riders pass lappers under yellow. Except me...

I think passing lapped riders under yellow is perfectly safe though because the speed differential is so much diff its actually more dangerous to slow down that much and its the perfect chance for them to get out of the way they should get a yellow and blue.

I dont really care for your opinion unless your a racer that actually laps riders because you wont understand

[Gremlin]

The yellows are held out on the first lap as an indication to riders of where the points are, so there can be no excuses later in the day. To be honest, I've never really thought about passing on the first lap of practise under yellows. We're holding them out to indicate points, and I guess its sorta given you guys pass, getting into space etc. I've certainly never heard any radio chatter about passing under yellows during practise, unless its an actual crash... as a racer tho, best you clarify with officials.

Passing during racing, or middle of practise, under yellow, citing the speed difference is simply not valid. It is more dangerous to pass a bike with a massive speed difference, and you should have slowed down similar to the others around you. There could be any sort of hazard on the track (for which the yellow is out) and in concentrating on a pass, you are reducing the chances of you or the passed rider being able to avoid any potential hazards.

A stationary yellow is, be prepared to slow down, waved yellow is, be prepared to stop. We all know what happened on Pukekohe's back straight a while ago, when a slow rider (run out of gas) did not pull off the track like he should have. Big speed differentials are dangerous, simple as that, and I will even report slow or fast riders in groups on ART days, to try to keep the whole group at a reasonably similar pace.

[FROSTY]

Im sure you guys have your eyes closed because everyone passes everyone on the first lap of practice under yellow and all the fast riders pass lappers under yellow. Except me...

I think passing lapped riders under yellow is perfectly safe though because the speed differential is so much diff its actually more dangerous to slow down that much and its the perfect chance for them to get out of the way they should get a yellow and blue.

I dont really care for your opinion unless your a racer that actually laps riders because you wont understand
Ok then Choppa Then take my opinion --I raced/will race again very soon and I pass lapped riders.
The rule is there for the safety of ALL competitors. The yellow flag isn't waved for fun its waved because an incident has happened on that corner. The natureof that incident you don't know but its sufficient for the marshal to ask you to slow and cease racing/ no overtaking AT THAT POINT.
As for the yellows waved first lap. Mate surely you jest --please please tell me you jest.

[FROSTY]

Chopper even if you don't gettit re safety then think the logistics of the situation through.
Ok out in front in a freight train are mr S,B,and F --Ol frosty has crashed on T4
On T2 the freighttrain passes J who is scarey fast though 3 4 and 5 but slow elsewhere -so J tucks into the middle of the freightrain. Into T3 they catch Bill who is doing ok andis in front of J -the freightrain has the way you want it the RIGHT to charge on past bill.
Or how about if you'd had a big moment but recovered -got back on track but had to yeald to guys lapping you.
The tactical advantage and the logistics of sorting out who could pass would be the thing of nightmares.

[roadracingoldfart]

Im sure you guys have your eyes closed because everyone passes everyone on the first lap of practice under yellow and all the fast riders pass lappers under yellow. Except me...

I think passing lapped riders under yellow is perfectly safe though because the speed differential is so much diff its actually more dangerous to slow down that much and its the perfect chance for them to get out of the way they should get a yellow and blue.

I dont really care for your opinion unless your a racer that actually laps riders because you wont understand


Gotta dissagree with you Choppa (and you know ive been at the front a wee bit for some time ) . The rule must be for all riders of all levels and all speeds attainable. The fact is if you pass a slower rider under the yellow by your theory then that rider is going to get one less lap as well.
If you witness a rider passing under the yellow for the safety of all concerned you should inform race control. Not to get one place further up the placings but to make sure that rider pulls his / her head in and remebers there is only one level of rider when it comes to rules.

Paul.

[CHOPPA]

Ok then Choppa Then take my opinion --I raced/will race again very soon and I pass lapped riders.
The rule is there for the safety of ALL competitors. The yellow flag isn't waved for fun its waved because an incident has happened on that corner. The natureof that incident you don't know but its sufficient for the marshal to ask you to slow and cease racing/ no overtaking AT THAT POINT.
As for the yellows waved first lap. Mate surely you jest --please please tell me you jest.

What happens when someone crashes on the first lap? How do you know theres a crash and not just showing you the flag points?

[Bykmad]

Quite simply, because the yellow flags are being waved, you should be travelling at a slow enough speed to avoid a rider/debris/slippery substance/track worker trying to assist fallen rider. BUT, one must ask, WHY, did a rider fall off on a sighting lap, which is what the first lap of practice on the first day of a National Championship meeting. Machinery fault is possibly the ONLY reasonable excuse.
Leave the rule as it is. It shows riders where the flag points are and only takes one lap, and on the first lap tyres are being warmed up any way.

[Peter Smith]

BUT, one must ask, WHY, did a rider fall off on a sighting lap, which is what the first lap of practice on the first day of a National Championship meeting. Machinery fault is possibly the ONLY reasonable excuse.

If Casey Stoner and Lorenzo can do it, I'm sure we can. (If we try really really hard)

[roadracingoldfart]

BUT, one must ask, WHY, did a rider fall off on a sighting lap, which is what the first lap of practice on the first day of a National Championship meeting. Machinery fault is possibly the ONLY reasonable excuse.



Well i did it once , and then i fell off 3 laps later . I was annoyed at myself but i still won the race in F1 .



If Casey Stoner and Lorenzo can do it, I'm sure we can. (If we try really really hard)


So im in good company then lmfao. I did it on a Honda though.


Paul.

[roadracingoldfart]

What happens when someone crashes on the first lap? How do you know theres a crash and not just showing you the flag points?


But Sloan .................
the flags are only out on the FIRST lap (of racing) if there is an accident so thats how you will know there has been an incident.
They are only out in static (unwaved) mode during the sighting lap but i think we have to rely on race control having sufficiant comms to the marshall points to wave the bloody thing if its required,
also the race will not start if there is an incident on the sighting lap (its not a warm up lap at all) that cant be cleared before the race is officially started , untill then you are under starters orders and the clerk of the course will not let the starter fire you off if there is a danger to either riders or marshalls.

Paul.

[FROSTY]

First lap of first practice. as in the sighting lap.

[pipson]

If you want to see how flags should be done properly come to manfeild this weekend.
The best in the business are on the the points
No I'm not biased
And I will happily discus any issues with you on Saturday night

Nigel here is a photo of the best in the business. Andrew Stroud ask if he could have a photos taken as he was so impressed with the marshals.

[MSTRS]

What happens when someone crashes on the first lap? How do you know theres a crash and not just showing you the flag points?

Good point. I thought I'd come back in here, because we've always just held the yellow for the first lap in each class for the fisrt practise session only. At Manfield this weekend, we were told to wave the yellow by race control. Maybe the Nationals are run slightly different to club racing, but in other years of Nationals, we've only held as usual. Perhaps it's a new rule? Whatever, sighting lap or racing, the no-passing thing still applies, and bikes that did whose number could be seen, were reported to control.
Under racing conditions, the no passing under yellow is a little more difficult to make a call on, at times, As marshals, we understand that a significantly faster bike coming up on a tailender, may not have time to slow enough when a yellow comes out. Depending on the gap that existed just prior to the flag coming out, we will make a judgement call on the overtaking rider, before reporting or not.
Remember, rules are there for the safety of all and riders do not call the shots and if they break a rule, then race control decides if there is to be a penalty.

[Gremlin]

MSTRS, I've certainly never waved the yellow for the sighting lap, stationary only, as have you... I'll have an update on that come end of March, as its the Hampton Downs Nats... Depends who the clerk is, they each have slightly different nuances on how to do things, and as marshals, we have to follow their orders...

Re crashing on warmup lap... it happens, happened on the weekend, hence why one race was delayed. Bikes had to wait on the grid as it took a while to clear a bike from the dip (nowhere safe to put the damn thing either). On sunday, we weren't told when the 2nd round of practise had started (hard to tell with so many bikes cross-entered), so ended up holding out the yellow for first lap of all practise sessions.

woodyracer... funny red rep, I have been "out there" for roughly 5 seasons and marshalled 3 different racetracks. How long have you?

[MSTRS]

MSTRS, I've certainly never waved the yellow for the sighting lap, stationary only, as have you... as marshals, we have to follow their orders...



Which is what I was saying. First time ever we had to wave the yellow for that first lap. It didn't bother me, just a bit surprised.