Cabinet minister caught redhanded. [Archive]

Toaster

25th February 2010, 15:28

Wot I want to know is...
if he's earning $250000 a year (thats what the news said last night) how come he has to put $9.50 burger king meal on his credit card?
What a tosser, & then to cry when he is caught
A tosser & a poof!!!!!

Alot of people use credit cards to earn rewards with their bank and defer payment. I wonder if the MPs accrue credit card rewards points/airpoints? If they do it should be forfeit or subject to taxation like the rest of us plebs.

Winston001

25th February 2010, 15:45

I admire the guy for taking responsibility for his actions. Ministerial responsibility used to be taken for granted in NZ up until the late 1980s. If a Minister or his Department got it badly wrong, the Minister resigned. It's an unwritten core value of Westminster constitutional democracy.

I have often used the wrong credit card - personal spending instead of business. No-one has ever threatened me, and the accountant sorts it out. Its almost an annual story here that Tim Shadbolt makes the same mistakes - but he gets re-elected anyway.

The sums of money involved are small but I agree that is not the point. We have had too much of bureaucrats and politicians extending their "expenses" into illegitimate spending and for that reason Phil Heatly did the right thing.

Pity really, he is an effective politician and was doing a good job.

Mully

25th February 2010, 16:33

how come he has to put $9.50 burger king meal on his credit card?

Apparently the BK meal was legitimate - it's meals and a South Island trip (and wine??) that was the issue.

Alot of people use credit cards to earn rewards with their bank and defer payment. I wonder if the MPs accrue credit card rewards points/airpoints? If they do it should be forfeit or subject to taxation like the rest of us plebs.

IIRC, years ago there was an "outrage" about MPs keeping their frequent flyer miles (accrued on business) for personal use.

I don't think I ever heard what the outcome of that was.

Mudfart

25th February 2010, 19:03

I hear that after A TERM of service (12yrs) in parliament, an MP can retire with lifetime perks? Anyone confirm?

riffer

25th February 2010, 19:09

Yes, that's true but I thought it was after THREE terms (9 years).

Skyryder

25th February 2010, 19:26

Yes, that's true but I thought it was after THREE terms (9 years).

Some start early................like on the first day.

Skyryder

pete376403

25th February 2010, 21:26

IIRC, years ago there was an "outrage" about MPs keeping their frequent flyer miles (accrued on business) for personal use.

I don't think I ever heard what the outcome of that was.
AFAIK, nothing came of that. Noises were made that the points should not be kept, but it was not enforced so ultimately nothing was done

Pixie

26th February 2010, 07:09

Some geeky type should hack Nick Smith's account and run up some hookers and porn on it.

Mully

26th February 2010, 08:37

AFAIK, nothing came of that. Noises were made that the points should not be kept, but it was not enforced so ultimately nothing was done

Shocker. I suppose none of them wanted to get their snouts out of the trough.

Some geeky type should hack Nick Smith's account and run up some hookers and porn on it.

No-one would believe it - unless it was transsexual, lesbian, midget, asian donkey porn.

mashman

26th February 2010, 08:56

Mully

26th February 2010, 09:12

Would it follow that those Ministers who are caught are shifted to the back benches, primarily because they know where the bodies are buried? It would certainly seem that the Politits close ranks when there's a "scandal"... and Politits being the type that they are (i'm not sorry for the generalisation) would happily take everyone down with them should they "fall" too far...

Yep - that certainly follows. Also, if it's an Electorate MP, sacking him (or her) completely would result in a by-election (and the risk of losing the seat)

What also follows is that the Opposition haven't screamed too loudly about this cos they're secretly shitting themselves that the Auditor General will decide to have a look at previous stuff. I think I've seen Annette King once on this subject and Phail Goof not at all.

Mikkel

26th February 2010, 09:26

No-one would believe it - unless it was transsexual, lesbian, midget, asian donkey porn.

Dr. Nick Shit's gotta be into coprophilia.

allycatz

26th February 2010, 09:30

Ha ha Tim Groser was at work this week visiting his Mum. We all had to fight the urge to ask if he was taking her out to lunch. We kept all copies of the Dominion post away from her so she couldn't see what her wee darling had been up to

mashman

26th February 2010, 09:30

Yep - that certainly follows. Also, if it's an Electorate MP, sacking him (or her) completely would result in a by-election (and the risk of losing the seat)
Bloody good point... is there anyway to force this? can a member of the public can press criminal charges? because "these people" are using my tax $ for a purpose other than what it was meant for... i.e. fraud

What also follows is that the Opposition haven't screamed too loudly about this cos they're secretly shitting themselves that the Auditor General will decide to have a look at previous stuff. I think I've seen Annette King once on this subject and Phail Goof not at all.

ha ha ha... if they've got something to hide they should be shitting themselves. I would love to see "these people" imprisoned (fraud maybe)... None of this i forgot nonsense... after all ignorance is not an excuse in the eyes of the law...

freedom-wedge

26th February 2010, 13:01

Wot I want to know is...
if he's earning $250000 a year (thats what the news said last night) how come he has to put $9.50 burger king meal on his credit card?
What a tosser, & then to cry when he is caught
A tosser & a poof!!!!!

Like your style, slipping in the poof, is that for eating at BK in the first place ?? they are making fools of us all unfortunately and it will all be replayed again tomorrow, it might be that other Scottosh restraunt where the card is used however :-).

pedro

freedom-wedge

26th February 2010, 13:05

Some geeky type should hack Nick Smith's account and run up some hookers and porn on it.

Truth be known they probably already exist grin,

Bikemad

26th February 2010, 13:14

the only reason wanker heatly resigned is theres probably worse shit to come and hes hoping it will go away if he quits

freedom-wedge

26th February 2010, 13:16

Yep - that certainly follows. Also, if it's an Electorate MP, sacking him (or her) completely would result in a by-election (and the risk of losing the seat)

What also follows is that the Opposition haven't screamed too loudly about this cos they're secretly shitting themselves that the Auditor General will decide to have a look at previous stuff. I think I've seen Annette King once on this subject and Phail Goof not at all.

A little whispering and some nervous shuffleing is all to date with a look to suggest sympathy for the opposing batsman thats just taken on in the nuts.

Winston001

26th February 2010, 13:43

IIRC, years ago there was an "outrage" about MPs keeping their frequent flyer miles (accrued on business) for personal use.

IMHO this is small stuff. My wife occasionally has to fly to Wellington for her work and I think she is able to keep the points. They aren't of any use to her employer organisation.

The NZ Government is borrowing $250 million a week to keep us in the style to which we have become accustomed. That is a real issue worth worrying about.

mashman

26th February 2010, 13:51

The NZ Government is borrowing $250 million a week to keep us in the style to which we have become accustomed. That is a real issue worth worrying about.

So every cent has to count (it certainly does in my household and not by my choice :crybaby:)... shouldn't those that are holding the public purse strings be a little more careful in regards to how they spend it... especially when they know they can get "demoted" for it? Whilst it seems a trivial amount, petty even, they already have a bloody good salary, so why screw the tax payer at the same time... these guys don't have a social conscience... if they did they wouldn't be doing it... they know it's wrong... they're forever getting stung for it and yet not 1 charge has been laid... and they all do what they like safe in the knowledge that there are no consequences...

I take it a back bencher's salary is lower than a Ministers? Does that mean he's taken a pay cut? I bet not, but am ready to be proven wrong...

Skyryder

26th February 2010, 15:54

the only reason wanker heatly resigned is theres probably worse shit to come and hes hoping it will go away if he quits

Could be but his resignation has taken the heat of Gerry (the mad miner) Brownlee. If Heatly had not resigned I think there would have been much more media attention to Brownlee as he is a senoir minister.

Some may think that this would be a smart move if this is what happened but all it does is give Labour some time to realy have a good look at Brownlee when all the fuss over Heatley has gone. Whether they can deliver a killer blow is another matter.

Another issue that has been forgotton is that of Ministers deliberalty flouting the law by giving their cards to staff. Ihave mentioned this in another post and if this is true then this amounts to fraud. That is a criminal offence. Personly I don't give a toss if both Labour and the Nats or anyone else for that matter gets the full force of the law thrown at them. Such people should not be in Parliment no matter what Party they are in or who they represent.

Skyryder

SPman

26th February 2010, 16:36

No-one would believe it - unless it was transsexual, lesbian, midget, asian donkey porn.
Yeah - that'd do!

Brian d marge

26th February 2010, 16:45

he didnt use enough tears like a real pro , such as Mr Toyoda

Stephen

Winston001

26th February 2010, 17:24

The latest saga involving Phil Heatley improperly using his expense account is just one in a continuing stream. Remember we had an Auditor-General who racked up huge bills having a jolly fine time. Jonathan Hunt enjoyed the taxpayers largesse while being our ambassador in London. CYPS had a $50,000 retreat in Rotorua. Students were sent overseas to do hip-hop research.

Today we are told of a health official who chartered a yacht - paid for by you and me!

Words fail me. Has "Me first" become the predominant thinking of New Zealanders?

Whaddya reckon? If you had a work expense account would you go for it - or hold back?

Winston001

26th February 2010, 17:37

So every cent has to count (it certainly does in my household and not by my choice :crybaby:)... shouldn't those that are holding the public purse strings be a little more careful in regards to how they spend it...

I take it a back bencher's salary is lower than a Ministers? Does that mean he's taken a pay cut? I bet not, but am ready to be proven wrong...

Agreed, I was a bit off-topic, referring to Flybuys and Airpoints which I think are trivial. Good luck to anyone who has to travel and gets some points.

But yes, we should expect our leaders to be responsible with their personal expenses but lets not be over-zealous. I'm just reading a Listener article about a Kiwi Oxford professor, Ngaire Wood. She points out that in the UK people are (rightly) screaming about moats being cleaned - but completely ignoring the ginormous bonuses being paid by banks. Banks which only survived because the taxpayer bailed them out!!

Maybe the sums of money in the big expenditure are too difficult for us to comprehend whereas $123 for a meal is easy to pick on. I don't know.

Oh - and yes, as a backbencher his salary will reduce.

JimO

26th February 2010, 17:37

i wish i had a work credit card.......hang on i do have one only i have to pay for it

slofox

26th February 2010, 17:56

Yeah - I got a work credit card - in my own name. Unhappily I'm the only taxpayer that fronts up for it...

Mully

26th February 2010, 17:57

Whaddya reckon? If you had a work expense account would you go for it - or hold back?

No. Cos normal people would be immediately sacked if they went nuts with their employer's money.

Ixion

26th February 2010, 18:00

The sums involved are, for the most part, small, if not trivial.

I have a work credit card. I have occasionally accidentally (genuinely) charged personal items to it. It's never been a drama, a note to finance, the nice chicky sorts it all out, I give her a cheque. And providing one is reasonable, both as to frequency and value, an occasional creativity as to what a work expense is overlooked. There has to be *some* work connection, of course.

As to be BK burger - given that this was an "on duty" lunch, and thus legitimately chargeable to work expenses, should we not rather applaud his frugality - he *could* have gone to the most expensive restaurant in town.

Certainly I cannot see any practical reason why he should resign, other than perhaps as a recognition of the pubic opprobrium, justified or not.. A mild rap over the knuckles, no more.

avgas

26th February 2010, 18:16

Could be worse........I am not sure how - but I am sure that in future years to come we will find out. Regardless of if its Nats or Labour......we will find out

rainman

26th February 2010, 19:48

The NZ Government is borrowing $250 million a week to keep us in the style to which we have become accustomed. That is a real issue worth worrying about.

Yup, but that's too scary to think about properly...

Ngaire Wood. She points out that in the UK people are (rightly) screaming about moats being cleaned - but completely ignoring the ginormous bonuses being paid by banks. Banks which only survived because the taxpayer bailed them out!!

Maybe the sums of money in the big expenditure are too difficult for us to comprehend whereas $123 for a meal is easy to pick on. I don't know.

Perhaps the same reason - we're too scared to actually think this stuff all the way through...

The sums involved are, for the most part, small, if not trivial.

I have a work credit card. I have occasionally accidentally (genuinely) charged personal items to it. It's never been a drama, a note to finance, the nice chicky sorts it all out, I give her a cheque. And providing one is reasonable, both as to frequency and value, an occasional creativity as to what a work expense is overlooked. There has to be *some* work connection, of course.

As to be BK burger - given that this was an "on duty" lunch, and thus legitimately chargeable to work expenses, should we not rather applaud his frugality - he *could* have gone to the most expensive restaurant in town.

Certainly I cannot see any practical reason why he should resign, other than perhaps as a recognition of the pubic opprobrium, justified or not.. A mild rap over the knuckles, no more.

You are most fortunate. When I had a work credit card the accounting trolls were most... unaccommodating.

Agree as to the BK thing - I'd certainly applaud his frugality. Would that more of 'em did it. I suspect there's much more to this that meets the eye. Perhaps he was struggling with the stresses of office and wanted out? Certainly seems to have been a maverick action rather than Key showing manly leadership or anything.

Oscar

26th February 2010, 19:55

So he resigns from cabinet, and gives the comment he will have to spend many years on the back benches. Oh you poor bastard. If I got caught stealing from my employer, I would be sacked, find it really hard to ever get another job, and face criminal charges. Even if it was $20.
I call for dismissal of disgraced MP's. Isn't it logical? Because they make the laws, they are above them?

Er - he used his "company" credit card for personal use.
Happens all the time in the real world, and as long as the money is repaid nothing is said.
The fact is, in NZ post-Labour Party social engineering, your employer would get hammered in the employment court if they sacked you for what he did.

Bikemad

26th February 2010, 20:04

Er - he used his "company" credit card for personal use.
Happens all the time in the real world, and as long as the money is repaid nothing is said.
The fact is, in NZ post-Labour Party social engineering, your employer would get hammered in the employment court if they sacked you for what he did.
er.....he earns 100k plus a year...........im sure he has his own CC........or perhaps he carries his personal CC in a different wallet...........

Oscar

26th February 2010, 20:07

er.....he earns 100k plus a year...........im sure he has his own CC........or perhaps he carries his personal CC in a different wallet...........

You know this how?
I carry all my credit cards in the same wallet (2 x Petrol Cards, 1 Comapny Amex and my own Visa in the same wallet).
As Ixion says, using the wrong card by accident is not unkown in the Business World.

Mully

26th February 2010, 20:08

I once got in trouble for "Texting a park" on my company phone when I went into the City one Saturday afternoon.

They ignored the fact that I was in the City on a Saturday afternoon because I was going into the office to fix someone else's fuck-up.

Bikemad

26th February 2010, 20:13

You know this how?
I carry all my credit cards in the same wallet (2 x Petrol Cards, 1 Comapny Amex and my own Visa in the same wallet).
As Ixion says, using the wrong card by accident is not unkown in the Business World.
because an MPs base salary is over a 100k...........as for using the wrong CC "by accident".....do you really want some idiot,who cant even recognise his own CC,running the countrys affairs........

Oscar

26th February 2010, 20:16

because an MPs base salary is over a 100k...........as for using the wrong CC "by accident".....do you really want some idiot,who cant even recognise his own CC,running the countrys affairs........

We had one that couldn't recognise a painting that wasn't hers, and she got away with it.

Bikemad

26th February 2010, 20:18

dont get me started dude...................

Oscar

26th February 2010, 20:19

dont get me started dude...................

Go on - you know you want too - unleash your inner curmudgeon!

Bikemad

26th February 2010, 20:23

nah...lifes too short to really worry bout those fuckers mate...............theres gonna be pricks like them here rippin off my grandkids long after im gone..........

mashman

26th February 2010, 22:25

Agreed, I was a bit off-topic, referring to Flybuys and Airpoints which I think are trivial. Good luck to anyone who has to travel and gets some points.

But yes, we should expect our leaders to be responsible with their personal expenses but lets not be over-zealous. I'm just reading a Listener article about a Kiwi Oxford professor, Ngaire Wood. She points out that in the UK people are (rightly) screaming about moats being cleaned - but completely ignoring the ginormous bonuses being paid by banks. Banks which only survived because the taxpayer bailed them out!!

Maybe the sums of money in the big expenditure are too difficult for us to comprehend whereas $123 for a meal is easy to pick on. I don't know.

Oh - and yes, as a backbencher his salary will reduce.

I'm more than happy with these guys getting their flybuys etc... they're doing the travelling...

I don't think it's a case of witch hunting... the guy has been wrapped on the knuckles for it before, if they're the rules, they're the rules... different companies treat cc usage in different ways... When i was over there i caught the tail end of it... one guy claimed to fix the chimney on his stately home... paid to get their lawns mowed (lazy bastards)... dog food... all sorts of goodies... the devil is always in the detail ain't it...

Heh, there was this banker i saw on the news... CEO Royal Bank of Scotland... lost 24 billion pounds... resigned/sacked... pension 671,000 pounds a year... there's certainly something wrong there... yet in the UK the interest rate for mortgages is at least as low as 0.35%... what are we? 5% tops... exchange rate of, let's be generous 3 bucks - pound... I agree the bailout has gone to those who need it (I read today that Switzerland nearly went bust... yes SWITZERLAND... i'll dig it out if anyone cares...), the bankers... and the reason that's given, or the reason I hear time and time again... we can't lose their experience (bunch of gamblers)... well if it's that bad, get them the fuck out of their job because they're shite at it... Oddly enough some of them go into politics...

I'm sure he'll be able to offset that on his credit card :laugh:

Winston001

26th February 2010, 22:50

Just to balance things, when Don Brash was Leader of the Opposition, he flew economy class and did his own laundry in his hotel room. When this was revealed, was he admired? Lauded for his frugal ways? No. The journalists laughed at him and took no further interest. So being careful and prudent with tax-payers money doesn't earn any admiration. Why bother?

Bikemad

26th February 2010, 23:01

So being careful and prudent with tax-payers money doesn't earn any admiration. Why bother?
because he shouldnt do it to get admiration...................he should do it cause its the honest and right thing to do

Winston001

26th February 2010, 23:26

because he shouldnt do it to get admiration...................he should do it cause its the honest and right thing to do

Well said!

Skyryder

27th February 2010, 17:11

Could be but his resignation has taken the heat of Gerry (the mad miner) Brownlee. If Heatly had not resigned I think there would have been much more media attention to Brownlee as he is a senoir minister.

Some may think that this would be a smart move if this is what happened but all it does is give Labour some time to realy have a good look at Brownlee when all the fuss over Heatley has gone. Whether they can deliver a killer blow is another matter.

Skyryder

I don' usually post links from the Standard for obvious reasons but it seems others share my suspicians on the Heatley resignation.

The writer does raise some interesting points.

http://www.thestandard.org.nz/heatleys-redherring-cover-for-brownlee/

I am personaly doubtfull on the articles summation as Key seemed to be surprised by Heatle's resignation. On the other hand there is a strong body of opinion that Key is only the front man for the Nats and that the real power lies elswhere with McCulley and his cohorts.

If this is the case and I do stress the 'if' then it becomes plausable that Heatley's resignation was to protect any flack descending on Brownlee.

Skyryder

YellowDog

28th February 2010, 07:21

No. Cos normal people would be immediately sacked if they went nuts with their employer's money.

Are we not forgetting that MPs, particularly cabinet ministers, have very strong influence throughout government departments and are hence almost above the law?

Mudfart

28th February 2010, 07:59

I don' usually post links from the Standard for obvious reasons but it seems others share my suspicians on the Heatley resignation.

The writer does raise some interesting points.

http://www.thestandard.org.nz/heatleys-redherring-cover-for-brownlee/

I am personaly doubtfull on the articles summation as Key seemed to be surprised by Heatle's resignation. On the other hand there is a strong body of opinion that Key is only the front man for the Nats and that the real power lies elswhere with McCulley and his cohorts.

If this is the case and I do stress the 'if' then it becomes plausable that Heatley's resignation was to protect any flack descending on Brownlee.

Skyryder

everyone knows that Bill English is the REAL nats leader. It was made aware to the constituency BEFORE the last election was held, when English was caught on tape saying he was gonna scrap kiwibank. Keys is just the prettyboy frontman.
Nats are trying to put a human face onto their inhumane acts of selling NZ off, to get reelected next term, by saying to us, hey look at our fiscal budget, look at our treasury, we have money.
Yeah, sure temporarily, AND it was at the cost of me being owned by some Russian mafia boss who decided he wanted to buy a slice of NZ! BASTARDS! mmmmm I cant wait for the GST raises to kick in. You nat voting retards DO realise this is a FOREVER deal aye?
Once GST goes up, it will NEVER EVER come down again. Not with any govt party in power.

Skyryder

28th February 2010, 12:36

everyone knows that Bill English is the REAL nats leader. It was made aware to the constituency BEFORE the last election was held, when English was caught on tape saying he was gonna scrap kiwibank. Keys is just the prettyboy frontman.
Nats are trying to put a human face onto their inhumane acts of selling NZ off, to get reelected next term, by saying to us, hey look at our fiscal budget, look at our treasury, we have money.
Yeah, sure temporarily, AND it was at the cost of me being owned by some Russian mafia boss who decided he wanted to buy a slice of NZ! BASTARDS! mmmmm I cant wait for the GST raises to kick in. You nat voting retards DO realise this is a FOREVER deal aye?
Once GST goes up, it will NEVER EVER come down again. Not with any govt party in power.

I tend to think that the English 'leadership' is a bit simplistic. There is no doubt that he has some consideable influence on fiscal policy but the overall stratergy of the party lies elsewhere. Key is in cahoots with Ashcroft due to both having money trading connections. I personly belive that it is Ashcroft who is Key's mentor. How much of this trickles down into Nat policy is a debatable point but I did see what appeared to be some influence in the 'whaling incident' and have commented on this elswhere.

I'm not too sure that Key will raise GST. I think this is a 'bogy' in much the same way that the original ACC hikes were. They will either raise GST to a point below 15% or not raise them at all and NZ will thiink what a bunch of nice guys they are.

Ultimatly with Key still running 'high' in the polls I do not think that the Nats will do too much to put that lead in jeopardy.

Nationals real agenda is the privatization of NZ and to fool NZ to agree with this. I think their overall stratergy is with this in mind and everything else is secondary.

Their performance to date leaves me no other choice than to come to this conclusion.

Skyryder