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Pixie
26th February 2010, 07:47
Switzerland has a population similar in size to New Zealand and has had the following electoral system in operation since 1848.

Voting in Switzerland
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The ballots and other voting documents mailed to each citizen of Berne for the elections and referenda of 30 November 2008.


Voting in Switzerland is the process by which Swiss citizens make decisions about governance and elect officials. Voting takes place over the week-end, with emphasis being put on the Sunday. At noon on that day ("Abstimmungssonntag" in German), voting ends.Switzerland


Switzerland's voting system is unique among modern democratic nations in that Switzerland practices direct democracy (also called half-direct democracy), in which any citizen may challenge any law at any time. In addition, in most cantons all votes are cast using paper ballots that are manually counted.

Approximately four times a year, voting occurs over various issues; these include both referenda, where policies are directly voted on by people, and elections, where the populace votes for officials. These votes take place during the weekend. Federal, cantonal and municipal issues are polled simultaneously, and the majority of people cast their votes by mail.

Only 25% to 45% of all eligible citizens typically cast their votes, but controversial proposals (such as EU membership or abolishing the army) have seen voter turnouts of about 60%.
Voting procedures

Voting can be done through hand counts, mail-in ballots, visits to polling booths, or, more recently, Internet votes.

Until several years ago, some cantons punished citizens for not voting (with a fine equivalent to $3). In the canton of Schaffhausen, voting is still compulsory. This is the reason for the turnout which is usually a little higher than in the rest of the country.

There are no voting machines in Switzerland; all votes are counted by hand. Every municipality randomly recruits a number of citizens who have the duty of counting the ballots, but penalties for disobeying this duty have become rare. However, after people sort the ballots (e.g. "yes" and "no"), then the total number of "yes" and "no" votes are counted either manually or, in bigger cities, by an automatic counter (like the ones used in banks to count banknotes); or the ballots are weighed by a precision balance. Vote counting is usually accomplished within five or six hours, but votes for parliamentary elections from the citizens of large cities (Zurich or Geneva for example) may take much longer.

Mail-in ballots

Referendum ballot where one can answer either "yes" or "no" in the box. For the English translation, click on the image. As Switzerland has four official languages, the ballots are distributed in four versions.

Voters are not required to register before elections in Switzerland. Since every person living in the country (both Swiss nationals and foreigners) must register with the municipality within two weeks of moving to a new place, all citizens are already registered and do not have to reregister if they wish to vote. The municipalities know the addresses of their citizens, and approximately two months before the polling date they send voters a letter containing an envelope (with the word "Ballots" on it), a small booklet informing them about the proposed changes in the law and, finally, the ballots themselves. Once the voter has filled out his/her ballot these are then sent back to the municipality in a return envelope provided in the package.

Polling booths

Swiss citizens may cast their vote in polling booths. At polling booths voters take the ballots that they have previously received in the mail and drop them off at the booth. However, after the introduction of postal voting not many Swiss citizens choose to utilise this service. Apparently an advantage for the voters (they don't have to visit the polling booth on Saturday afternoon or Sunday morning when the votes are to be counted on Sunday), it is, on the other hand, a disadvantage for organisations which were collecting signatures for an initiative near the polling station. This is so because the actual voters are interested in politics, so asking them for a signature yields far better results than randomly asking for signatures on a city square.

Internet voting

Several cantons (Geneva, Neuchâtel and Zürich) have developed test projects to allow citizens to vote via the Internet [1] or by SMS.

Types of votes

Elections
Main article: Elections in Switzerland

There are three primary election types. The first two, parliamentary elections and executive elections, allow Swiss citizens to vote for candidates to represent them in the government. Parliamentary elections are organised around a proportional multi-party voting system and executive elections are organised around a popular vote directly for individuals, where the individual with the most votes wins. The third type of election, referenda, concern policy issues.

Parliamentary elections

Parliamentary elections decide the members of the Council of States and the National Council. If candidates are running for a parliamentary position, the voter is sent several ballots, each corresponding to a different political party. Every party makes up its own voting list, but the voter can either make a list of his or her own or they can make some changes to party-proposed lists.

If candidates are running for the Federal Assembly of Switzerland, the ballot displays as many lines as there are posts to fill. The voter then votes for the candidates that they wish to fill the parliament seats. Each candidate can be voted for up to two times. Each time a candidate's name appears on the list, a vote is counted for the particular candidate. The voter can delete a candidate's name and replace it with another name if they wish or they can leave the line blank. Although the voter is provided with a party list the voter can substitute a member of a different party and prepare their own list. For example, one can remove a candidate from the Social Democratic Party of Switzerland list and replace him with one from the Liberal Party of Switzerland. If a voter uses a ready-made party list, additionally a party vote is cast for the specific party. A voter can also use a free list with no party affiliation; casting a free list with self-chosen candidate's names doesn't result in a party vote.


The parliament is elected through two different procedures.

The National Council is elected through a procedure called proportional representation ("Proporzwahl" in German), because each party gets a number of parliament seats proportional to the number of party votes it receives. This determines the number of seats that the party is given, but the individual candidates still aren't elected - this is determined by the candidate vote. If according to the party votes the Liberals get 5 seats, the five liberal candidates with the highest candidate vote counts are elected.

Members of the Council of States are elected through different systems as decided by the cantons, because the body represents Switzerland's cantons (member states). However, there is a uniform mode of election taking place on the same date as the nationwide National Council elections. This procedure is the plurality voting system ("Majorzwahl" in German). In the canton of Zug and the canton of Appenzell Innerrhoden, the elections take place before the other cantons according to Majorzwahl. The only exception to Majorzwahl is the canton of Jura, where the two councillors are elected according to Proporzwahl.

Cantonal elections

The voters can also vote for the government of each canton. The ballot has only one line where the voter can place the full name of any mature citizen that lives in the said canton, i.e. a write-in candidate. There are no party votes, only candidate votes; so this procedure is called ("Majorzwahl") where the candidate with the most votes wins, otherwise known as simple majority (plurality in the US) elections.

Referenda

Citizens can call constitutional and legislative referenda but still without the right to call legislative referenda on their own drafts but only on laws passed by the legislature. For each proposal there is a box on the ballot which the voter has to fill with either a "Yes" or a "No". If there are proposals that contradict each other, there is also a tie-break question: "If both proposals are adopted by the people, which proposal do you favor? (the so-called "subsidiary question" introduced in 1987)

Constitutional Referenda

Modifications to the constitution are subject to obligatory vote and require a double majority both of the votes and of the states. Such votes are called when the legislative proposes a constitutional modification, or when 100 000 citizens sign a "popular initiative" that clearly states a proposed constitutional change.

The double majority is not only required of the citizens, but of the cantons as well: Each full canton has one vote, but so-called half-cantons (because they were so historically split centuries ago) only have a half vote each. The cantonal vote is determined by a popular vote among the people of that canton; if the majority supports a proposal then the entire canton supports the proposal.

This cantonal vote means that small cantons are represented equally with the larger ones. For example, Basel-Country as a canton has about 256,000 inhabitants, but has only half a cantonal vote (the other "half canton" being Basel-City). On the other hand, the canton of Uri has a full cantonal vote, but only 35,000 inhabitants.

More than 550 referenda have occurred since the constitution of 1848 (legislative or constitutional).
Municipal voting

Every village, town or city has a deliberative assembly — in some villages, it is the town meeting (usually called "Landsgemeinde"), where all adult citizens may vote by show of hands. At such meetings the citizen can also present oral or written proposals which are voted on at the next meeting. In larger towns, elected assemblies take the place of the town meetings.

The municipal assemblies vote on changes to the "town statutes" (Gemeindereglement), governing such matters as the use of public space, on financial commitments exceeding the competence of the executive branch, and on naturalisations.
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Voting qualifications

Switzerland currently has about 7.5 million inhabitants; 5.6 million are Swiss citizens who have the right to vote although some cantons (states) and municipalities have granted foreigners the right to vote if they have lived a certain number of years in Switzerland.

All Swiss citizens aged 18 years or more are allowed to vote. In addition, Swiss citizens living outside of the country who are older than 18 are also allowed to vote on federal matters and, in some cantons, on cantonal matters. For these voters, registration through the local or nearest Swiss Consulate is compulsory (as they are not already registered in the municipality in which they live). They can choose to register in any Swiss municipalities in which they have been registered previously, or at their place of origin.
[edit]
Votes on citizenship
Main article: Swiss citizenship

In general, the municipal parliament decides about naturalisations. However, in some towns, naturalisations are subject to a popular vote. The Supreme Court decided in 2003 that naturalisations were an administrative act and thus must obey the prohibition of arbitrariness, which rules out democratic votes on naturalisations.

There are ongoing discussions about changing the rules: one proposal consists of automatically naturalising foreigners if they fulfill the formal criteria, and citizens can propose non-naturalisation if they give a reason for the proposal. The proposal would be voted on, and if the foreigner doesn't accept the outcome of the vote, he can order the court to verify the objectivity of the reasons. Some politicians have started an initiative to change the Swiss Constitution in order to make votes on naturalizations legal [2], but it reached a a referendum in June and was soundly rejected.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_Switzerland

avgas
26th February 2010, 08:35
Errr how about if I want to vote for no gobbermint.
I personally find it as useful as tits on a bull.

jim.cox
26th February 2010, 08:44
They'll never let us have that much freedom

too many fat cats swilling at the trough of the public purse for that

gotrta secure their futures through the party lists and other quangos and bullshit bureaucracies doncha know

Big Dave
26th February 2010, 08:46
'Heaven is where the Swiss organise everything.
Hell is where they Police it.'

Tee shirt in Hong Kong.

mashman
26th February 2010, 09:51
If you're going to piss in the wind... why not try something unique... whilst the Swiss system looks all nice and lovely, the system of voting is not the problem... granted it would be useful to be able to cast a vote in ?refernda? to stop the gobmint running roughshod over an issue, but we kinda had that here with the anti-smacking bill, and the votes actually counted for nothing... it's the people that are the problem... yes i realise that the Swiss system would allow you to put in anyone you'd like (well almost anyway)... I still think the same people will get in... those with business buddies... those with money to "buy" friends and potentially favours... It's the people that are in it for what they can get... not the system of voting that's at fault imho...

Tank
26th February 2010, 09:54
Sounds fantastic dosnt it - the grass is always greener.

However - living in Switzerland and under that their rules / regulations etc is quite another matter. I know a lot of people from there and they would happily change for a more 'free and easy' life.

NighthawkNZ
26th February 2010, 10:06
Age old saying doesn't matter who you vote for the government gets in... they are all puppets anyway to the powers that be... luminati etc... (oh conspiracy theories)

Ronin
26th February 2010, 10:29
'Heaven is where the Swiss organise everything.
Hell is where they Police it.'

Tee shirt in Hong Kong.


I just looked up Traffic laws for there. Makes SH16 look like a speeders paradise.

Headbanger
26th February 2010, 10:49
Us Kiwis could seriously fuck that system.

avgas
26th February 2010, 10:49
not the system of voting that's at fault imho...
It is if there is no section on the form which states:
"No thanks"
Should I invent the "Empty seat" party - where if we get 4% of the vote there will be a empty seat in government. Money can go to starship or something. Or even (heaven forbid) back to the tax payer.

Laxi
26th February 2010, 10:52
move to switzerland then!

problem solved

Skyryder
26th February 2010, 12:08
And here's me thinking this was a thread telling everybody to have a name change..........................to Guy Fawkes.


Skyryder

mashman
26th February 2010, 12:41
It is if there is no section on the form which states:
"No thanks"

There is... you just don't tick any of the boxes... in fact why waste your time going in the first place:msn-wink:

avgas
26th February 2010, 12:53
There is... you just don't tick any of the boxes... in fact why waste your time going in the first place:msn-wink:
20% of NZ did that last time. Yet we still have all the seats in the beehive filled.....go figure.
I guess its easy to bend the rules to suit - so long as all the 'players' agree.

avgas
26th February 2010, 12:54
Guy Fawkes.
Now there is a guy I would vote for. Hell I would even pay for his entry into parliament.
(cost me a shitload less in the long run)

mashman
26th February 2010, 13:13
20% of NZ did that last time. Yet we still have all the seats in the beehive filled.....go figure.
I guess its easy to bend the rules to suit - so long as all the 'players' agree.

That's a lot of people... and spread over, say 6 parties... could be space for the Bikeoi party maybe :yes:... I would love to know the percentage of those that don't vote on the principle that it doesn't matter who's in, it's the same shit, different day and still a government to be ashamed of...

However the Swiss alternative of fining people (even $3) kind of flies in the face of free speech...

Wonder how many red voters turned blue, just for a change last time... and if it was actually policy based or whether it was just time for a change... I suppose if we knew those figures, you could potentially go vote winning over the next 18 months...

mashman
26th February 2010, 13:15
Now there is a guy I would vote for. Hell I would even pay for his entry into parliament.
(cost me a shitload less in the long run)

I wonder if they make inflatable Guy Fawkes effigies, ya know, the sort that you have to blow up...

golfmade
26th February 2010, 13:58
I wonder if they make inflatable Guy Fawkes effigies, ya know, the sort that you have to blow up...

You forgot to put this in the "if you know what I mean" thread ;)

Grass is always greener on the other side that's for sure. That said I'm pretty sure the grass you find in NZ is truly actually greener than grass here in Taiwan. :yes:

Tank
26th February 2010, 14:08
Grass is always greener on the other side that's for sure. That said I'm pretty sure the grass you find in NZ is truly actually greener than grass here in Taiwan. :yes:

Indeed the grass is often greener in NZ - sadly you have to leave NZ and travel a bit to appreciate exactly what a great country we have.

Dave Lobster
26th February 2010, 14:54
I wonder if they make inflatable Guy Fawkes effigies, ya know, the sort that you have to blow up...

Mohammed Fawkes?

mashman
26th February 2010, 15:00
Mohammed Fawkes?

come poling day, whilst everyone ticks their box... he just ticks...

Tank
26th February 2010, 15:02
come poling day, whilst everyone ticks their box... he just ticks...

oooohhhh they gonna put a fatwa on your ass

SPman
26th February 2010, 15:41
Indeed the grass is often greener in NZ - sadly you have to leave NZ and travel a bit to appreciate exactly what a great country we have.Nothing wrong with the country - just the Bozo's in power who think they own it!

rainman
26th February 2010, 18:42
Voting in Switzerland

Way too complicated or us simple souls.

mashman
26th February 2010, 22:28
oooohhhh they gonna put a fatwa on your ass

a fatwat... you mean FattMax... (he wasn't as big as i thought he'd be, could just about support his wait...)

sorry to the islamic community, this was in jest... Allah, just jokin with ya big fella... don't fry me please...

davereid
27th February 2010, 07:36
The trouble with democracy is that its really just mob rule. Switerzerland appears to have perfected a technique for listening to the mob - I can't see that it really improves anything.

As far as I am concerned, it doesn't matter how the bastards get there. Its the massive power they have when they are there that is the problem !

Dave Lobster
27th February 2010, 08:55
The trouble with democracy is that its really just mob rule. Switerzerland appears to have perfected a technique for listening to the mob - I can't see that it really improves anything.


It got the minarets stopped. If the majority of the population want something to happen, surely that government is duty bound to do it? That is what they're paid for.

Winston001
27th February 2010, 11:19
It got the minarets stopped. If the majority of the population want something to happen, surely that government is duty bound to do it? That is what they're paid for.

Actually........No. We elect parliamentary representatives to govern the country and obtain the best advice on how to do so. The vast majority of the public have no conception of the detailed information required to do that. IMHO we should know more but the media won't report the detail - to be fair they realise most people aren't interested.

For example, we'd probably all vote against mining in the conservation estate. Yet Gerry Brownlie points out that there are already 80 existing mining operations and I doubt the public could name more than one or two. What have the media done about this? Researched his claim? Broadcast a list of the sites? Nup. Nadda.

The result is the public know nothing about it. How could we possibly make an informed decision? The recent "smacking" referendum is a good example of how badly these things can work. It was a nonsense and should never have proceeded without clear wording. Maybe then it would have achieved something.

Hitcher
28th February 2010, 14:20
Switzerland has a population similar in size to New Zealand and has had the following electoral system in operation since 1848.

Switzerland has one of the most repressive regimes in the world. Do a bit of research and find out when women got the vote there. Do a bit more research and see what basic democratic rights we enjoy here that aren't open to your average Swiss.

Pixie
28th February 2010, 15:07
Switzerland has one of the most repressive regimes in the world. Do a bit of research and find out when women got the vote there.

Is this an argument for or against?
Lurved our previous feminocracy

avgas
28th February 2010, 15:44
Actually........No. We elect parliamentary representatives to govern the country and obtain the best advice on how to do so. The vast majority of the public have no conception of the detailed information required to do that. IMHO we should know more but the media won't report the detail - to be fair they realise most people aren't interested.

For example, we'd probably all vote against mining in the conservation estate. Yet Gerry Brownlie points out that there are already 80 existing mining operations and I doubt the public could name more than one or two. What have the media done about this? Researched his claim? Broadcast a list of the sites? Nup. Nadda.

The result is the public know nothing about it. How could we possibly make an informed decision? The recent "smacking" referendum is a good example of how badly these things can work. It was a nonsense and should never have proceeded without clear wording. Maybe then it would have achieved something.
This man speaketh the truth.
We elect a leader of the blind you see (or not). Not a leader of the wise.
Unfortunately scenario is the wise are often ignored. And we all know what a person is if they ignore wise advice.

Dave Lobster
28th February 2010, 17:47
We elect a leader of the blind you see (or not). Not a leader of the wise.


Wouldn't the way round this little problem be to stop thick people voting?

Mudfart
28th February 2010, 18:01
yep, you should have to obtain some form of license to vote, to prove your qualified to make informed decisions.
You need a bloody license for everything else.....oh wait, no you can go out and buy as much alcohol as you want, and tobacco, and quite happily sit there making other people breathe it and get cancer. Fair trade for a punch in the head i reckon.
We shouldn't automatically claim its your right to vote because your 18. You might be a retard. If you smoke, its proof.
If you want to bitch because yes you've been smoking for 25 years and your not a retard blah blah, I challenge you to quit for 2 years, and see my point of view of being around smokers. Its REALLY REALLY offensive and insulting to humanity.

Hitcher
28th February 2010, 18:02
Is this an argument for or against?
Lurved our previous feminocracy

It's an argument against. And I think you misunderstand what a "feminocracy" is.

Mudfart
28th February 2010, 18:12
I think feminocracy is germain greerism. Notice how she fuks up our country so bad she moves to england.

Hitcher
28th February 2010, 18:28
I think feminocracy is germain greerism. Notice how she fuks up our country so bad she moves to england.

Germaine Greer? Are you serious? She was an Aussie, not a Kiwi.

Fatt Max
28th February 2010, 19:16
Vote for me, I'll give you a pie, a dozen piss, a big snog and a slap on the arse.......

Or, we start the Biker Party and go fucking mental on an election campaign where we eat pies, drink piss, snog everyone and slap people on the arse......

Sorry, serious thread, been a long day and Kingfisher lager was on special in Countdown......xx

avgas
1st March 2010, 08:26
Kingfisher lager
Ah yes - nothing like the Double Brown of Bombay

Mudfart
1st March 2010, 08:35
Germaine Greer? Are you serious? She was an Aussie, not a Kiwi.
well i wasnt born when she DID fuk up our country (from what Ive been told), however I also never said she was a NZer, altho I did assume she woulda been.

oldrider
1st March 2010, 08:59
This man speaketh the truth.
We elect a leader of the blind you see (or not). Not a leader of the wise.
Unfortunately scenario is the wise are often ignored. And we all know what a person is if they ignore wise advice.

I have never once seen a "leader" elected in this country, that is always done by the party!

On the other hand, I have seen almost every leader over the past 60 odd years, get "elected out"!

When the people get so pissed off with them that they want a change, any change, just to get rid of the incumbents!

Clark and company anyone?

NZ does not elect leaders "in", they only ever elect leaders "out" and we wonder why we are never satisfied with the results!

mynameis
1st March 2010, 11:24
Sounds like nothing but a load of crock to me.

Hitcher
1st March 2010, 20:10
well i wasnt born when she DID fuk up our country (from what Ive been told), however I also never said she was a NZer, altho I did assume she woulda been.

Germaine Greer hasn't "fucked up" any country. She has never held elected office anywhere.