F2 Rule clarification?

[lukemillar]

Hi, I was looking through the F2 rule book the other day - particularly stock production and came across this rule (nb. this rule applies to sport as well as stock)

3-30-2 Additional Equipment
Additional equipment not on the original homogolated motorcycle may not be added. (i.e data aquisition, computers, recording equipment etc.)

I never knew this. Does this mean lap timers, on board cameras etc. are all out? I can't see how these thing really give any kind of advantage - unless data recorded is fed into the ECU for TC purposes etc. or relayed back to the pits. I'm just curious.

[k14]

Hi, I was looking through the F2 rule book the other day - particularly stock production and came across this rule (nb. this rule applies to sport as well as stock)

3-30-2 Additional Equipment
Additional equipment not on the original homogolated motorcycle may not be added. (i.e data aquisition, computers, recording equipment etc.)

I never knew this. Does this mean lap timers, on board cameras etc. are all out? I can't see how these thing really give any kind of advantage - unless data recorded is fed into the ECU for TC purposes etc. or relayed back to the pits. I'm just curious.
Yes lap timers are not allowed, I think they give a massive advantage. They probably should be allowed but afaik no one has ever been pulled up for having one.

[k14]

Hi, I was looking through the F2 rule book the other day - particularly stock production and came across this rule (nb. this rule applies to sport as well as stock)

3-30-2 Additional Equipment
Additional equipment not on the original homogolated motorcycle may not be added. (i.e data aquisition, computers, recording equipment etc.)

I never knew this. Does this mean lap timers, on board cameras etc. are all out? I can't see how these thing really give any kind of advantage - unless data recorded is fed into the ECU for TC purposes etc. or relayed back to the pits. I'm just curious.
Yes lap timers are not allowed, I think they give a massive advantage. They probably should be allowed but afaik no one has ever been pulled up for having one.

[lukemillar]

Yes lap timers are not allowed, I think they give a massive advantage.

Really? Surely a laptimer isn't much from someone with a pitboard!?

[k14]

Really? Surely a laptimer isn't much from someone with a pitboard!?
Well it gives the rider the lap time the second they cross the line, where as the pit board will be one lap behind. So banning them would only really disadvantage the people that don't have a lap board. Seems a bit strange that no one has raised the issue yet though.

[JayRacer37]

Well it gives the rider the lap time the second they cross the line, where as the pit board will be one lap behind. So banning them would only really disadvantage the people that don't have a lap board. Seems a bit strange that no one has raised the issue yet though.

Hmm. Always thought they were legal.

[wharfy]

Hmm. Always thought they were legal.

I'm not sure whether Lap Timmers are technically legal or not (the 675 has a manual one as standard) but I always thought the intent of this rule was to ban dataloggers and telemetary systems that where only a few years ago VERY exspensive pieces of kit.
Nowday for under a grand you can get a GPS computer/datalogger/laptimer that give time/speed for as many laps/sections of laps that you could want. All of which can be downloaded and analized. I would love one but spend all my money (and some of the banks) on crash repairs !!

[JayRacer37]

I'm not sure whether Lap Timmers are technically legal or not (the 675 has a manual one as standard) but I always thought the intent of this rule was to ban dataloggers and telemetary systems that where only a few years ago VERY exspensive pieces of kit.
Nowday for under a grand you can get a GPS computer/datalogger/laptimer that give time/speed for as many laps/sections of laps that you could want. All of which can be downloaded and analized. I would love one but spend all my money (and some of the banks) on crash repairs !!

KNow waht you mean. Kirk has one of these systems for his F3 bike - very trick and not too expensive. Lap timers are pretty common in 600SP.

[lukemillar]

I'm not sure whether Lap Timmers are technically legal or not (the 675 has a manual one as standard) but I always thought the intent of this rule was to ban dataloggers and telemetary systems that where only a few years ago VERY exspensive pieces of kit.
Nowday for under a grand you can get a GPS computer/datalogger/laptimer that give time/speed for as many laps/sections of laps that you could want. All of which can be downloaded and analized. I would love one but spend all my money (and some of the banks) on crash repairs !!

See, this is my query. I have a laptimer with some rudimentary datalogging. I don't look at it on the track - even the lap times. I just look at it afterwards and find it helpful to compare lap time to throttle position. I didn't think it would be a problem because the data is only looked at post race with a beer! Can't really have an affect on my race at that point! However, looking at the rules, I guess I'll just have to use it during practise sessions only :(

K14 - With pit boards, I don't mean relaying lap times, but more how close the person behind you is!

[k14]

I'm not sure whether Lap Timmers are technically legal or not (the 675 has a manual one as standard) but I always thought the intent of this rule was to ban dataloggers and telemetary systems that where only a few years ago VERY exspensive pieces of kit.
Nowday for under a grand you can get a GPS computer/datalogger/laptimer that give time/speed for as many laps/sections of laps that you could want. All of which can be downloaded and analized. I would love one but spend all my money (and some of the banks) on crash repairs !!
The rule specifically says:

3-30-2 Additional Equipment
Additional equipment not on the original homologated motorcycle may not be
added. (i.e. data acquisition, computers, recording equipment etc.).

Since your laptimer is standard it is legal, anyone using an XT laptimer (additional equipment and I would class it as recording equipment) or the like is using so illegally and if raced with should be excluded from the results. The only classes that they are legal are 125 and F3 (maybe sidecars, not sure about their rules).

[JayRacer37]

The rule specifically says:


Since your laptimer is standard it is legal, anyone using an XT laptimer (additional equipment and I would class it as recording equipment) or the like is using so illegally and if raced with should be excluded from the results. The only classes that they are legal are 125 and F3 (maybe sidecars, not sure about their rules).

Jeez, you had better get someone out on the dummy grid as cheating is rife and right under our noses! :) Good thing I smashed mine on Friday...

[NinjaBoy]

of course these rules generally only apply to Nationals not Club racing.

[k14]

Jeez, you had better get someone out on the dummy grid as cheating is rife and right under our noses! :) Good thing I smashed mine on Friday...
Yeah I am not worried about it because I don't ride in those classes. It's not the only basic rules people flout that is pretty obvious, there are plenty others that are obvious violations that no one takes an interest in...

Just to clarify, I am talking about Sports Production rules. The original poster refers to F2 which allows data logging (although getting a set of rules is pretty hard these days), the rule he copied is from the sports production rules though.

[lukemillar]

Just to clarify, I am talking about Sports Production rules. The original poster refers to F2 which allows data logging (although getting a set of rules is pretty hard these days), the rule he copied is from the sports production rules though.

Yeah - my bad. I assumed they were one and the same thing as I couldn't find anything specifically saying "F2"!

[JayRacer37]

Yeah I am not worried about it because I don't ride in those classes. It's not the only basic rules people flout that is pretty obvious, there are plenty others that are obvious violations that no one takes an interest in...

Just to clarify, I am talking about Sports Production rules. The original poster refers to F2 which allows data logging (although getting a set of rules is pretty hard these days), the rule he copied is from the sports production rules though.

Yeah it's a bit of a shocker alright...


Yeah - my bad. I assumed they were one and the same thing as I couldn't find anything specifically saying "F2"!

F2 is pretty much a holdover class from days past - its a rule format used in club racing and street racing, and most bikes are now built to Sports Production rulings - like the one you have quoted. As Kirk said, the rules for F2 are hard to come by. If you were building a bike for club racing you are sweet with the datalogging - F2 is a Formula class so stuff like that is A OK. However, at a National meeting, it would probably have to come off - except it seems most of us are cheating with some of the things we have/have had on our bikes...whoops :)

[lukemillar]

F2 is pretty much a holdover class from days past - its a rule format used in club racing and street racing, and most bikes are now built to Sports Production rulings - like the one you have quoted. As Kirk said, the rules for F2 are hard to come by. If you were building a bike for club racing you are sweet with the datalogging - F2 is a Formula class so stuff like that is A OK. However, at a National meeting, it would probably have to come off - except it seems most of us are cheating with some of the things we have/have had on our bikes...whoops :)

Cool, thanks for the clarification! It's is all relevant as I was also interested in what would need to come off the bike, going F2 club racing -> stock prod. 600 racing

Cheers
Luke

[k14]

Cool, thanks for the clarification! It's is all relevant as I was also interested in what would need to come off the bike, going F2 club racing -> stock prod. 600 racing

Cheers
Luke
Yeah so for any club racing so long as your bike is under 750cc twin, 675 triple or 600cc four pretty much anything goes. If you wanted to get a world supersport spec 600 over that is a-ok. But to run at nationals your bike has to comply (roughly...) with the sports production rules to be allowed to race.

[wharfy]

Yeah so for any club racing so long as your bike is under 750cc twin, 675 triple or 600cc four pretty much anything goes. If you wanted to get a world supersport spec 600 over that is a-ok. But to run at nationals your bike has to comply (roughly...) with the sports production rules to be allowed to race.

Of course it will only be a problem if you start getting into the points, nobody is going to care what I have on my bike (except maybe the guy I'm diceing for 27th place with) or my NOS fires at the wrong time and I take someone out :)

[lukemillar]

except maybe the guy I'm diceing for 27th place with

That'll be me then! ;) Except I'll be in 26th place coz I got me a GPS timer! :banana:

[roadracingoldfart]

One of you guys should get a clarification from MNZ about the lap timers onboard.
I dont see a problem with them but if they are allowed then using them will open you to a protest with sad results.