Bigger race numbers!

[Badjelly]

Mrs Jelly and I had a great time on Saturday & Sunday spectating at the Nationals at Manfeild. Thanks to VMCC, the volunteers, and the racers and helpers for putting on such a good show.

Listening to the commentator was entertaining, though not always in an entirely good way :msn-wink:. One of the things he mentioned was that he had trouble working out which racer was which because the numbers on the bikes are small, and not always at an angle that makes them easy to see (eg on top of the tailpiece). Er, yes, I'd noticed that myself actually. He explained that the rules used to require big numbers on the side of the bikes so they could be seen by the officials, but now the bikes had transponders that wasn't necessary.

Here's a suggestion: make big numbers on the side of the bikes compulsory, not for the officials but for the spectators. That's assuming that putting on a show for the spectators is one of the points to the whole exercise. (If not, then forget I mentioned it. I'll still gladly come and watch anyway, but I'm not sure about some of the others.)

[Kickaha]

He explained that the rules used to require big numbers on the side of the bikes so they could be seen by the officials.

The rules still do require big numbers but no one enforces it as most bikes now don't have space for them

10-2-3 ROAD RACING (all classes) except the following classes in Appendix A, B, C and F – see
class rules
Size: Minimum width 285mm, minimum height 235mm, oval or rectangular in shape.
Placement: 3 number boards to be affixed or placed upon the motorcycle, in colours
required for the class as follows:
Front: Facing forwards, with not more than 30 degrees forwards from vertical.
Sides: One either side of the motorcycle in a position clearly visible when the rider (and
passenger for sidecars) is seated in their usual riding position.
In a place on separate boards, a space of equivalent size and shape can be on the bodywork
or streamlining.
Figures: Must be clearly legible in the required colour for class, the following minimum
dimensions:
Height of Figure 140mm Space between figures 15mm
Width of Figure 80mm Width of Stroke 25mm
A plain form of figure shall be used with no scrolls or pinstripe.

[scrivy]

One of the things he mentioned was that he had trouble working out which racer was which because the numbers on the bikes are small, and not always at an angle that makes them easy to see (eg on top of the tailpiece). Er, yes, I'd noticed that myself actually. He explained that the rules used to require big numbers on the side of the bikes so they could be seen by the officials, but now the bikes had transponders that wasn't necessary.
Not true. The rulebook still states a certain size and colour must be used.

Here's a suggestion: make big numbers on the side of the bikes compulsory, not for the officials but for the spectators. That's assuming that putting on a show for the spectators is one of the points to the whole exercise. (If not, then forget I mentioned it. I'll still gladly come and watch anyway, but I'm not sure about some of the others.)

What would happen if the power went out at a major meeting, and the transponders failed? Carnage!! We have such a reliance on electronics, that we have become complacent on the rules.
I for one can't make out who's who either sometimes.

[Kickaha]

What would happen if the power went out at a major meeting, and the transponders failed? Carnage!!

Lets blow the fuse box up at the next meeting and see

[scrivy]

The rules still do require big numbers but no one enforces it as most bikes now don't have space for them
Front: Facing forwards, with not more than 30 degrees forwards from vertical.
Sides: One either side of the motorcycle in a position clearly visible when the rider (and
passenger for sidecars) is seated in their usual riding position.
In a place on separate boards, a space of equivalent size and shape can be on the bodywork
or streamlining.

Kick, who says numbers must be on the tailpieces? That's just where everyone puts them for looks. There is a massive area for numbers on each side, it's called a main fairing!

[Kickaha]

Kick, who says numbers must be on the tailpieces? That's just where everyone puts them for looks. There is a massive area for numbers on each side, it's called a main fairing!

I don't think any regulation does but it just became the normal place to put them, look back far enough and they used to be on the sides of the main fairing, however that is now mostly filled with sponsors logos, one bike I saw at the weekend only had one number on the rear and that was on top of the tailpeice , you'd only see it if you were in a Helicopter

[scrivy]

one bike I saw at the weekend only had one number on the rear and that was on top of the tailpeice , you'd only see it if you were in a Helicopter

oooooo.... I can see another reason for people to protest then....... lol

[Tony.OK]

Taken from appendix "C" for SBK's

2-1
Size. Backboard.
Width 285mm
Minimum height 23mm,
Oval or rectangular in shape.
Figures must be clearly legible to the following minimum dimensions.
Height of figures 160mm
Width of figures 100mm
Space between figures 20mm
Width of strokes 30mm
Figure Font to be in Arial Black
Number Placement
Fairing, Front of fairing "one number" board facing forward
Seat tailpiece, Minimum of "one number on rear seat tailpiece". In the case of a dispute concerning the legibility of numbers, the decision of the technical steward will be final.

So that two #'s minimum, alot of tail pieces now don't have room for 2 "legal" sized #'s

[blueblade]

I totally agree. Its much more interesting from a spectators point of view when you can identify riders you might know something about. Heaps of bikes out there at the moment where you have no chance of picking up their numbers from track side.

[Tony.OK]

Kick, who says numbers must be on the tailpieces? That's just where everyone puts them for looks. There is a massive area for numbers on each side, it's called a main fairing!

MNZ says so.........see my other post.

[codgyoleracer]

Agree
The rules need to be modified to allow numbers to be placed on the side face of the main fairing panel or even on bellypans as in the United States. Numbers can then actually be bigger than current. it s a small thing - but to the uninformed & for those relying on the programme & not the dodgy sound system at most tracks it becomes more important.
Glen

[Hoon]

Yeah I remember when designing my number decals a few years back I was really pushed for space on the tail - in the end it met barely any of the regs. At AMCC they didn't have transponders so you had to make sure your number was eligible from trackside otherwise you'd get nagged!! I'd like to see things improved for the spectators. With technology these days it'd be nice to broadcast commentary over local FM (listen via cellphone FM radio/car radio/etc) and AMB timing system hooked up to a wireless network/intranet to supply realtime race times/placings to the pits/spectator screens.

[Kiwi Graham]

Only got room for one number on the tailpiece of my bike and with under seat mufflers and a narrow profile seat unit mounting boards would be a nightmare.

Side of fairing or bellypan would be good (Tony Rees has done this on is superstock R1) but it robs sponsor space. I think as long as your number meets MNZ requirements on the front and isn't a fancy design confusing things....all good.

[scrivy]

MNZ says so.........see my other post.
Who brought that in???? Sort of defies logic......


Agree
The rules need to be modified to allow numbers to be placed on the side face of the main fairing panel or even on bellypans as in the United States. Numbers can then actually be bigger than current. it s a small thing - but to the uninformed & for those relying on the programme & not the dodgy sound system at most tracks it becomes more important.
Glen
Couldn't agree more!


Yeah I remember when designing my number decals a few years back I was really pushed for space on the tail - in the end it met barely any of the regs. At AMCC they didn't have transponders so you had to make sure your number was eligible from trackside otherwise you'd get nagged!! I'd like to see things improved for the spectators. With technology these days it'd be nice to broadcast commentary over local FM (listen via cellphone FM radio/car radio/etc) and AMB timing system hooked up to a wireless network/intranet to supply realtime race times/placings to the pits/spectator screens.
All of the above ideas can be done right now. How much money do people want to spend on entries to allow it to happen? Radio feeds are cheap. The telemetry stuff is alot higher!! I don't think people out there for fun will justify alot more money on entries for the masses.

[MSTRS]

Only got room for one number on the tailpiece of my bike and with under seat mufflers and a narrow profile seat unit mounting boards would be a nightmare.

Side of fairing or bellypan would be good (Tony Rees has done this on is superstock R1) but it robs sponsor space. I think as long as your number meets MNZ requirements on the front and isn't a fancy designe confusing things....all good.
Better to be easily seen by trackside 'workers' and spectators. Some bikes out there have a single number facing up on the tailpiece and/or off to one side on the nose, and are impossible to see at all marshal points.
Codgy (for instance) is easy, cos that '1' stands out, and the whole package is distinctive. Not so, for many others. There's a 'large' gentleman in Superbikes on a black ZX10? with chrome flames on the main fairings...can't see his numbers at all.

[FROSTY]

All it would take is ONE protest and you watch competitors suddenly find room on their bikes.
I can see the difficulty nof meeting the regulations with the new R1/gixxer/6/1000 etc with conciderably smaller tail units height wise than a few years back. Maybee its time to go back to having number boards hangin down below the tail to allow full size numbers

[jellywrestler]

AMB timing system hooked up to a wireless network/intranet to supply realtime race times/placings to the pits/spectator screens. whats the commentator going to talk about then?

[scrivy]

As I said before - look at the piccies from this years WSB!! ....and you can't say they don't give their sponsors enough room!! Who says 'other classes' have to have the numbers on the tailpieces?

Imagine if a flaggie had to report an overtaking under a yellow flag.....
Yes, flaggie Bob here..... er, a red bike just passed another red bike under the yellow flag, don't know what number it was, but it was a very deliberate pass......

Er... ok, thanks for that.......... Bugger, lets take a gamble that it was bike number 87.......

It'll only be a matter of time before the rule will be enforced again.....

My 2c worth.

[malcy25]

Not sure why the MNZ rule book needs two sets of rules to cover one issue....


Plus waht goesa round, comes around....a number of years ago we had a number issue across classes as the size of the tail pieces shrunk again. This rule said said that the side number had to be behind the rider.

...hence the rewrite as per chapter 10 via a remit I put in a number of years ago (probably 8-10 years ago now) which freed the position from being behind the rider to anywhere on each side of the bike, as long as it can be seen with the rider (or passenger for Scrivy) in their usual position.

I saw numbers being compressed onn the rear and plenty of space on the fairing sides not being used.....

I'm with Scrivy - you still need to have accurate and easy to read numbers on the bike so the punters and flaggy's know who's who, irrespective of timing processes.

I remember all the proddy bikes in the 80's with plywood number boards hanging off the back....

[Skunk]

whats the commentator going to talk about then?Depends if we want to listen to him really...

[WarrenW]

I remember all the proddy bikes in the 80's with plywood number boards hanging off the back....

Damn I used to race one of those, heck I MUST be old!

[quickbuck]

To add my 10 cents here:
Yes, I noticed it had become an issue too... Especially the 600's!
Couldn't tell who was who.... Well, for the most part.

I think the number on the side fairing is a brilliant Idea. After all, it is all about being noticed by the fans, and for them to look up the program, and then see the list of sponsors you have carefully entered into said program beside your name.
They are the ones paying for you to race right? Okay, giving you something!

Also, as Scrivy said, it is getting more difficult for the flaggies to ID particular bikes... It would be a disaster if somebody was accused of passing another rider, when it was actually a rider on a very similar CBRGSXRZX6R6.....


On a similar note, I must get Neils #6 fixed on his postie faring. Looks like a bloody 3, and I have almost missed putting the pit board out!!!
(See, not only for the fans, but your very own team!).

[kittytamer]

I wanted to put numbers on my belly pan as shown in the pics above, so I contacted MNZ directly to see if this would be OK, but they pointed me at the rule (also mensioned above) about it having to be on the tail piece. Although they did think it was a good idea it would not comply to the rules. I don't think it would take much to get this rule updated so numbers could be ANYWHERE on the side of the bike.

[Tony.OK]

I wanted to put numbers on my belly pan as shown in the pics above, so I contacted MNZ directly to see if this would be OK, but they pointed me at the rule (also mensioned above) about it having to be on the tail piece. Although they did think it was a good idea it would not comply to the rules. I don't think it would take much to get this rule updated so numbers could be ANYWHERE on the side of the bike.

There's nothing to say that you couldn't have "extra numbers" though...........still have 1 tail number, but whack a couple more on the sides or belly pan maybe?

[Kickaha]

I wanted to put numbers on my belly pan as shown in the pics above, so I contacted MNZ directly to see if this would be OK, but they pointed me at the rule (also mensioned above) about it having to be on the tail piece. Although they did think it was a good idea it would not comply to the rules. I don't think it would take much to get this rule updated so numbers could be ANYWHERE on the side of the bike.

I would have gone and done it anyway , they couldn't kick your bike out without having to kick out every other bike with numbers that don't comply

[wharfy]

Damn I used to race one of those, heck I MUST be old!

You used to be able to buy plastic ovals to put your numbers on, and the Norton Commando Production Racer had ovals built into the tailpiece (I lusted after one of those...)

[Gremlin]

yeah yeah, think of the marshals for once!! :D Hard to identify bikes at times, have to visualize the model, not easy with race fairings at race pace. Don't really care about tail, too hard to see. Side fairings and nose would be good

[scrivy]

Holy shit!! This thread has been really constructive!!! :yes::gob::Punk:

[jellywrestler]

its been a problem for the last few years since transponders. while this has made it easier in many ways the spectaters are not able to find out which bike is which very easily, then they lose interest. We all want our sport to have a better profile yet the numbers like they are these days the profile is getting harder to attain.
maybe its time to have supplementary regs that numbers must be able to be clearly seen?, or improve the rule book so they can go on the side panels.

[quickbuck]

its been a problem for the last few years since transponders. while this has made it easier in many ways the spectaters are not able to find out which bike is which very easily, then they lose interest. .

I think you hit the nail on the head!
And where is that thread about dwindling numbers watching racing???

[Marknz]

Can't say that I bothered looking at the regs other than to find out what colour the numbers and the background had to be. I just figured that the number on the front was a must have, another on the right-side belly pan for going through Splash (I only ever race at Manfeild), and another on the left side of the tail peice for the front and Hulme straights. Seemed logical to me, but then I suppose someone could throw the book at me if they wanted to.

[FROSTY]

heres a couple of ideas. One on the fairing. then using half boards under the tail to get the side profile large enough to be legal. I bet Billy could easilly modify his fibreglass moulds so it was built into the tail unit.
I do agree though that the rules need to be changed so the side number can be displayed on the fairing provided its the correct size.
I bet the sponsor stickers could easilly be worked around it