Bike stops when clutch let out

[Rapido Toddy]

Hi, this is a continuation from another thread as it went off topic.

I have a 91 Kawasaki zr250a ( balius) It had been shorted by a reverser wire jump start from a car but that issue is now fixed. I think this problem is why my dad was jump starting the bike to begin with as it would not start and he had drained the battery, but it wont roll start because as soon as you let out the clutch in gear the bike cuts out.

I have removed the kickstand switch and cleaned, checked its working, with multimeter etc. Have checked the clutch switch and tried to short cut that but to no avail. Even though it thinks the clutch is still in it cuts out?? i was sure that would do it. Any ideas or help would be great.

Does anhybody know where the gear switch is? there is 3 wires going into the left had side ( where the gear shift is ) but also ther are soem on the right underneath.

does any one have shop manuel or something for this bike or know if it is similar to another ( zxr etc) i have looked online with no luck, iguess thats what you get for buying a jdm import

[CookMySock]

Sounds to me like it's kickstand switch related.

Steve

[puddytat]

What DB said.....you havnt left the stand down au?:doh:

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Isn't there a switch in the clutch lever housing and a sensor near the kickstand, on most bikes?

Not used to your bike but pretty sure mine has a sensor which knows when the kickstand is up or down and the switch in the clutch housing is the kill point, which acts on the sensor infromation.

I would say you need to check the sensor and the switch.

Apologies if I've got this wrong.

[Rapido Toddy]

it also has a sensor in the gear box aswell right? i have already checked the sensors on the clutch and kickstand but they are fine.

AT the moment it wil

start with kickstand up and down if clutch is in and in gear or out and in netral will stop if trying to start in gear with clutch out ( which you shouldnt want it to do) and it runs fine. they only thing wrong is if it is in gear and clutch goes out if kick stand is up or down.

[kwaka_crasher]

So did you actually check the sidestand switch operation using the sidestand or by actuating the switch with your finger?

Everything points to the sidestand switch being being faulty. Or a short in the wiring to it.

[neels]

Was thinking about this last night after I broke the neutral switch wire on my bike and it wouldn't start and had a look at the wiring diagram.

Some bikes have a diode arrangement for combining the inputs from the neutral, stand and clutch switches to disable the starter, if yours has one of these it may have been toasted by having the jumper leads connected the wrong way around?

[Rapido Toddy]

thanks very much will try and have a look on the bike to figure this out. Its really frustrating me as all the switches are working fine.

thanks

[quickbuck]

I think neels is on to it.....

Darn Diodes!

[Rapido Toddy]

Well after much investigation and finding out that my bike shares most of the electrical components with a zxr400 and zzr600 i found a wiring diagram and spec sheet for everything i needed. Managed to test every thing i could and found out to be a relay in the junction box that was stopping the bike from running. So managed to get a new junction box from atomic and now im all up and running!!!! now all i need its a wof.

thanks for all your help and ideas
cheers

[Mikewazowski]

Hi there, long time listener, first time caller...

My ZXR250C seems to be doing a similar thing. It would intermittently cut out as I was riding along. If I pulled the clutch in then it would run, but as soon as I let it out it would die. It would also run fine in neutral. I would try a few times and then it would take off in first and run fine, sometimes for minutes, sometimes for days/weeks.
I guessed that it was the kickstand switch being faulty so I disconnected the wires from that and soldered them together.
Unfortunately it still had this intermittent problem. It would cut out at random times.

I pulled the bike apart today, traced the wires back to where the join one of the main looms and bridged them there. Now when I start the bike up it is unable to go forward! It behaves as if the kickstand is down and cuts out as soon as you let the clutch out.
Could my problem be the same as above? Some sort of relay or something?
Can anyone help me figure out what to test/take apart/replace next please?

P.S. I figured it was probably best to add onto this old post since my problem seems to be on topic.

[notme]

A wiring diagram for your bike will help a lot. If you can find one on the net or a secondhand dead tree printed one, you will be able to find the fault.

If it's not the obvious i.e. broken side stand switch, it is going to become difficult very quickly to trace wiring without a diagram.....

One piece of info that is both good and bad in your case is that your fault is intermittent. That means it's unlikely to be a dead relay, burned out ORing diode, or anything like that, and more likely a bad connection. You need to clean and tighten all connections in the ignition circuit, and swap out relays.

See point 5 here for some things to check with regards to intermittent faults http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/132696-Basic-troubleshooting-steps?p=1129943048#post1129943048

[Mikewazowski]

Thanks for that. You are dead right when you say intermittant faults are both good and bad.
I have a printed out copy of the workshop manual for my bike so I went through and continuity tested the wiring related to the kickstand switch (battery -> IC Igniter -> Junction Box -> Kickstand switch -> battery) and it all checked out. I undid all the plugs and checked the diodes in the Junction Box and then plugged everything back in, making sure all the connections were solid. Then I connected the petrol tank up and started the bike. It started up fine and when I put it into first it was able to creep forward without cutting out...Hurrah!

I'm not sure whether this will have fixed the cutting out problem long term, but it has fixed the immediate cutting out which started happening the other day.
I guess that it must have been a bad connection somewhere as I didn't find anything that was obviously causing the fault.

[notme]

Good stuff! So most likely it was a dodgy connection somewhere along the way - if you wanted to you could have another good look at the plugs and sockets you disconnected and reconnected, and make doubly sure none of them are corroded or loose.


Thanks for that. You are dead right when you say intermittant faults are both good and bad.
Yeah well many years of painful experience speaking there!

Well done on the progress anyway!:niceone:

[Mikewazowski]

Well, I thought the problem was fixed but it appears that it wasn't. I've had it cut out multiple times on me so far...very annoying!

I've double checked all the wiring and it all seems to have continuity where it should. I've even tried wiggling the wires to see if they lose continuity, but no dice there either. It seems that if I move the junction box (while it is plugged in) this can cause it to cut out as soon as the clutch is let out. Then if I move it to a new position, it will move forward with no issue. I thought that perhaps there was a dodgy connection in the plug...so I've cable tied the plug into the junction box and hopefully this will restrict any movement while riding the bike.

I tested the three diodes in the junction box and they all got approximately the same reading in one direction and nothing in the other (as expected).
I'm wondering if maybe something inside the junction box is knackered?
Are they expensive to buy brand new?

[notme]

It seems that if I move the junction box (while it is plugged in) this can cause it to cut out as soon as the clutch is let out. Then if I move it to a new position, it will move forward with no issue.

There's something dodgy inside that box then. What exactly is this box? If you are testing diodes inside it, is it the regulator/rectifier you're talking about? upload pix and or a pic/scan of the relevant item in the wiring diagram.

Also, to help pinpoint the problem you could put the bike on a stand or loosen/remove the chain or something similar so that you can put it in first and let the clutch out without the bike moving - then you can wiggle things away and watch for the bike to die.

[Mikewazowski]

Here is a wiring diagram showing the Junction Box in the top left corner. The Junction Box also houses the fuses for headlights and whatnot.

234548

I've ridden the ZXR a number of times since I cable-tied the plug into the Junction Box and it hasn't misbehaved yet. Time will tell, but I hopeful that I may have found the culprit. I'm going to grab a spare Junction Box that I can swap in if this one gives me grief again.

Fingers crossed that I've nailed it this time!

[notme]

The diagram looks like it is part of a series of diagrams that show more detail...


Anyway - there is no clutch switch shown on the diagram - is there one on your clutch lever? If there is, and you can make the problem happen by moving the fusebox/junction box, then the wire that comes from the clutch switch is dodgy at the junction box end. Maybe the clutch switch is in series with the sidestand?

Regardless, if you can make the fault occur by wobbling the junction box, then there is a dodgy connection at the junction box. Find and fix it, and you'll have no more issues. Cable tying it is a temporary solution, and I wouldn't bother with a spare junction box unless you find that the fault is inside it - most likely all you have to do is clean up a plug or socket or wire going to the box.

Upload pix of any dodgy connections if you want help fixing them...