Paper roads - A lawyer's view

[RedKLR650]

Paper Roads - A Lawyers View :shit:

Hi all, the attached article is from the latest issue of the Farming publication, Straight Furrow

It's an article by Palmerston North lawyer Liam Hehir regarding rights of both landowners and the public in regards to paper roads

Bear in mind, it was written to be read by Farmers so is primarily based on questions a landowner would have, but it also clarifies a lot for us land access users too

I hope this is useful for all those that travel the further reaches of the country via the still existing paper roads

Happy Riding

Cheers, Stu
0274 342 372

[Eddieb]

Thanks very much for that Stu. Any legal clarifications and opinions are good to expand our awareness of whats allowed and what isn't as it's so much of a gray area.

[zeRax]

woah, very interestinglylylying


so which roads are paper roads, does anything have them on a gps file or link to a map with paper roads filtered in ? <---- no clue ;]

[Eddieb]

I happen to have Mapsource open now with the NZ Open GPS Project maps open and have been playing around. Paper roads that I know of appear on those maps the same as minor roads so I can't make a distinction between them.

On the Garmin maps even minor roads don't even exist.

On that note however the NZ Open GPS Project maps are compiled from govt data supplied by Linz, it may be possible that the data is included in what is supplied from Linz, but excluded from the distributed product as it's of no interest to 99% of the population who only need to know how to drive their Remuera tractor from home to the cafe and salon and do the school run.

[warewolf]

Interesting, very little new information for me there, but might be a bit of a wake-up for the would-be land barons.

[bishxt]

I happen to have Mapsource open now with the NZ Open GPS Project maps open and have been playing around. Paper roads that I know of appear on those maps the same as minor roads so I can't make a distinction between them.

On the Garmin maps even minor roads don't even exist.

On that note however the NZ Open GPS Project maps are compiled from govt data supplied by Linz, it may be possible that the data is included in what is supplied from Linz, but excluded from the distributed product as it's of no interest to 99% of the population who only need to know how to drive their Remuera tractor from home to the cafe and salon and do the school run.

It would be great to be able to get the GPS data and from that build some online ability for riders to log their use of the paper roads... evidence of use could, from my experience of UK byways and UCRs, engender legal rights to routes in case of future Govt / Council action to stop them up... Widespread stopping up happened in the UK over the last 5 years with only a small fraction of legal routes now left! Would hate to see that happen here...

[Eddieb]

Ooh, after doing a search on the NZ Open GPS Project forum i found this thread: http://gwprojects.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1420&p=17902&hilit=paper+roads#p17902

Check out the most recent comments from graemewi, one of the admins.

[NordieBoy]

It would be great to be able to get the GPS data and from that build some online ability for riders to log their use of the paper roads... evidence of use could, from my experience of UK byways and UCRs, engender legal rights to routes in case of future Govt / Council action to stop them up... Widespread stopping up happened in the UK over the last 5 years with only a small fraction of legal routes now left! Would hate to see that happen here...

advroutes.org.nz

We've got a track here that's been in constant use since the 1860's and gets 3-4 vehicles a day over it and up to 30 on a weekend.
And it looks like no leg to stand on if they decide to stop it.

[Eddieb]

everytrail.com is pretty good too. Though not much NZ stuff on it. I've been experimenting with it http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=508526

[bishxt]

advroutes.org.nz

We've got a track here that's been in constant use since the 1860's and gets 3-4 vehicles a day over it and up to 30 on a weekend.
And it looks like no leg to stand on if they decide to stop it.



Ooh, after doing a search on the NZ Open GPS Project forum i found this thread: http://gwprojects.org/forum/viewtopi...r+roads#p17902

Check out the most recent comments from graemewi, one of the admins.

:shit: That's a bummer re the stopping up since from Eddieb's post above it looks like they're going to make it onto the GPS maps (I assume the 4WD routes mentioned in the post)... seems to be the same old story as in the Northern Hemisphere then, so best ride them before some civil servant :weird: presses the stop button! At least the GPS'ing will make it easy to know that you should be in the right place, although of course routes might well be obstructed or unclear... one I ride locally had a forage crop sown by it recently and new fence/gates appear, but fortunately the track follows a fence line and was still obvious... even without GPS waypoints :yes:

[monchopper]

Freshmaps Cadastral map is great for investigating useable paper roads.
http://www.freshmap.co.nz/products/cadastrals.htm

[monchopper]

It's all very interesting. Sorry in advance for the long winded reply.
There needs to be a distinction, a true paper road only exists on paper and is almost impossible to ride, but there are 1000's of km's of tracks (some rough single goat tracks, some 4wd standard farm tracks) that align or nearly align with paper roads that until recent mapping and GPS advances no one really knew about, these tracks are also generally called paper roads. A lawyer friend of mine advised me that if a track on the ground follows or generally follows a paper road then it is reasonable to assume that the track is the line of the paper road regardless of whether it is or not, this seems to be at odds with the advice in the article.

I've been having a long running dispute with the Selwyn Plantation Board who have illegally locked gates on Dalethorpe Rd and Bell Hill road near Springfield (and other locations). The council's roading manager has investigated and confirmed these locked gates are illegally blocking a public road reserve, but to date they refuse to remove them. (You can get a key from them if you ask nicely and go and pick it up and drop it off in Darfield. Which I have done on occasion)

Along with the easement on the Selwyn river (which is a rough track that crosses the river a few times) these roads form a nice little 25k loop from the Springfield pub:drinkup: which is near the Waimak gorge bridge (very popular route with chch adv bikers who ride up and over the Waimak at the gorge).

They tried to scare me off pointing out that the formed road deviated slightly from the paper road. I rang the council and the roading manager looked at there definitive map and pointed out that they are correct but where it does deviate from the track they've planted trees! Imagine planting a tree in the middle of the road:shit: very naughty boys!

As I don't live in Chch, I'm this fighting a battle remotely. I will post a gpx file of the route if anyone is interested in checking it out and I would encourage the chch lads to go and have a ride through there.
The scenery in there is great!! and makes a great day trip from Chch with a pint and a pie in Springfield.

I'm not fighting against these locked gates for me or you, I'm doing it for my sons and there children...... Use it or lose it

[thepom]

Sounds like an invitation you just can,t refuse,post the route as I am sure there are lots of people up for a good day out.....

[Skinny_Birdman]

Great post Stu. It is a bit more difficult to stop a road than the writer makes out. Section 342 of the Local Government Act 1974 provides that the Council may stop a road, after satisfying the requirements of Schedule 10.
Schedule 10 can be found here (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1974/0066/latest/DLM425592.html?search=ts_act_local+government+act_ resel&p=1#DLM425592), with all the hoops that have to be leapt through. To be honest, we generally advise clients that it isn't worth the hassle of stopping a paper road, although this is on a case by case basis.
As has been said before, if adv riders want to keep routes open, then they (we)have to keep our ears to the ground, and make objections when applications are made to stop the road.
The survey definition of paper road boundaries (ie where they actually are) is often pretty flaky, and data provided by LINZ in digital format is not the definitive record of these boundaries. It is often distorted by anything up to 100m.

We've got a track here that's been in constant use since the 1860's and gets 3-4 vehicles a day over it and up to 30 on a weekend.
And it looks like no leg to stand on if they decide to stop it.
Surely you are not referring to the Maungatapu (which isn't and never was a road)? :crybaby: They aren't stopping it, they are denying access to their (private) land. Different issue altogether.

[monchopper]

Sounds like an invitation you just can,t refuse,post the route as I am sure there are lots of people up for a good day out.....

I've started a new thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/119869-Locked-Gate-Dalethorpe-Rd-and-Bell-Hill-Road?p=1129672210#post1129672210

If any of the chch boys want to see a perfectly legal bit of NEW off road action then get on board

[bishxt]

It's all very interesting.

As I don't live in Chch, I'm this fighting a battle remotely. I will post a gpx file of the route if anyone is interested in checking it out and I would encourage the chch lads to go and have a ride through there.
The scenery in there is great!! and makes a great day trip from Chch with a pint and a pie in Springfield.

I'm not fighting against these locked gates for me or you, I'm doing it for my sons and there children...... Use it or lose it

A gpx of the route would be great, it would be a local one for me and a nice bolt-on to the various Waimak trails.

Thanks Bish Whoops - Just refreshed the page and saw that you'd posted a new thread... will look at that.