Clutch...

[morg_nz]

So the other day my clutch (2001 CR125) just wouldnt disengage. Took it appart, found the cable seemed to be working fine, but I think the springs were worn so am getting new ones. What i did find however was that the oil was dark grey, and very thick - almost sticky. I think something has got in via the overflow and contaminated it cause I imagine it shouldnt be that colour.

So following instructions from an ADB mag, i laid the bike on its side and pulled the clutch out etc with the oil still in it (that lasted about 5 min as i forgot about the overflow and it promptly ended up on the garage floor!). The friction plates and steels look in great condition and there apprears to be no defects in the basket that could prevent the friction plates moving freely. So I came to the conclusion that it was the oil that was causing the problem, and decided to rinse the bottom end out with petrol to remove the contaminated oil (this may be an unconventional thing to do?)

so the bike has been sitting for a day now (wanted to let all teh petrol drain and evaporate from the bottom end first), will prob put it back together tonight and see how it goes. Is there anything else i should do/look for before i put it back together?

[Buddy L]

Use CRC Brakleen on your fibre plate in your clutch.
Cleans them up real good.
http://www.crcind.com.au/catalogue.nsf/web_brands/Brakleen?openDocument

Also use them on your brake pads next time hou have them out.

[oldguy]

Question, how often do you change your oil?

[morg_nz]

well i've only just got the bike - prob only done about 10 hours on the bike - so it was prob due for it anyways

[barty5]

I only ever keep it for bout 5 hours running oil is cheap compared to engine rebuilds.

[CookMySock]

Check the bearing behind the clutch basket hasn't seized.

Steve

[morg_nz]

Grrrrr.... I just put the clutch back together - found the basket was quite grooved so spend a lot of time smoothing that out nicely, carefully put everything back together, and before i put the cover back on i stood the bike up and put it in gear and the clutch seemed to disengage nicely for me to push the bike. The i put the cover back on a filled it with oil (650ml of gearbox oil) then wheeled the bike outside and started it - and then put it in gear and it stalled, the clutch wouldnt disengage! so im back to square one - i have no idea whats wrong!

i probably could take it into a bike shop but I'd prefer to fix it myself (even if it takes a while!)

[vr4king]

Hmmm so if it works without the cover on im gonna guess you maybe have to many or have your plates etc set up wrong and its hitting the cover when you pull the lever

Just seems wierd that it worked fine with no cover on,my old cr125 had a nice groove worn on the inside of the cover where the the spring bolts were rubbing prob from the same thing hahahaha

[L Rider]

Grrrrr.... I just put the clutch back together - found the basket was quite grooved so spend a lot of time smoothing that out nicely, carefully put everything back together, and before i put the cover back on i stood the bike up and put it in gear and the clutch seemed to disengage nicely for me to push the bike. The i put the cover back on a filled it with oil (650ml of gearbox oil) then wheeled the bike outside and started it - and then put it in gear and it stalled, the clutch wouldnt disengage! so im back to square one - i have no idea whats wrong!

i probably could take it into a bike shop but I'd prefer to fix it myself (even if it takes a while!)

Try a different oil. Hubby had same problem with KX125 - used the recommended oil - no luck, changed oils & never had a problem. Bel ray was the one he had the problems with. He pulled his clutch to bits heaps of times before trying new oil (everyone told him it wouldn't be the oil).
He also had a problem with his roadbikes clutch - once again change of oil brand & it was sorted.

[CRF119]

Ok Use Motal oil, if you cleaned ur fibers in a degreser you have made a mistake. You now must soak them in oil over night before you reaseble or you may damage them

Make sure you have filed the basket perfectly both leading and trailing edge of the basket fingers must stay parrallel for smooth operation. I have done this to every bike my mates have brought second hand works every time.

My CR125 was funny it wouldnt dissngage when it was lent over. had me confused for a bit.

[morg_nz]

lol i dont know how i would have too many plates as i only took out what i put in, but i'm gonna have to take it back apart so i'll look for wear inside the cover - also i might take the plates back out and leave them soaking in oil overnight as i forgot to do that.

[morg_nz]

yeah will definatly need ot soak the plates - annoyed i forgot really! yeah i took a lot of care when filing the basked and made sure both edges were parallel and straight. I will have athink about the oil too - would you think going to one with less viscocity would make the plates less likely to stick? i.e. going from 80W90 gearbox oil to 30W40 motor oil or something?

[L Rider]

I'm unsure of the exact oil (he used whatever the manual states) except it was trans oil. But i do remember the bel ray was a thicker tackier oil then the motul. I jst did an oil change & brought Motul 2stroke trans oil for my CR80. This is same stuff thats gone into the KX125.

[barty5]

dont use standard g/box oil bike bike gearbox oil there is a difference there are different property's in the oil for use with the clutch plates.

[B0000M]

lol 80-90 - you will also find it hard to change gear.

auto trans fluid has been my solution since the mid 90s.... havnt fucked a gearbox yet!

[Buddy L]

Whats the reason for pre soaking your clutch plates in the oil for?
I have never done this and have never had a problem.
I always de-grease the fibre plates when i change brands of oils as well.
Is there any pros or cons to this?

Will using de-greaser on my fibre plates break them down faster?

[morg_nz]

i thought the pre-soaking after cleaning them was to make sure they were well lubricated, and not dry so they wouldnt get blown to pieces the first time they are used. but i have just had mine soaking for a couple of hours, put them back in the bike and the bastard thing still doesnt work! im lost! grrr!

[Buddy L]

I had a 01 CR125 and had problems with my clutch. Well only when the oil was cold. I would start the bike in netural and wait untill the bike had fully warmed up and the clutch would work fine. when the bike was cold it would never ingage the clutch.

[Buddy L]

But my four stroke works perfect every time as the bike shares the motor oil and gear box oil, so they warm up together.

[CRF119]

The soaking part mainly applies to new ones but could have been the problem, (apparently not in this case) 80-90 how did u even get that in small oil cap hole lol. If motal is to dear get GPS from Super cheap thats what i use in my 450 has been great on both engine and cluctch. also have 10 other mates that use it to. Are you missing a shim/washer that gose with the thrust bearing? Surely you can see the clutch working they are pretty simple things.

[morg_nz]

Yeah thats what gets me - I can see it working, the lever seems to be acting properly and i can watch the basket move but it just doesnt seem to want to disengage properly?


The soaking part mainly applies to new ones but could have been the problem, (apparently not in this case) 80-90 how did u even get that in small oil cap hole lol. If motal is to dear get GPS from Super cheap thats what i use in my 450 has been great on both engine and cluctch. also have 10 other mates that use it to. Are you missing a shim/washer that gose with the thrust bearing? Surely you can see the clutch working they are pretty simple things.

[L Rider]

i thought the pre-soaking after cleaning them was to make sure they were well lubricated, and not dry so they wouldnt get blown to pieces the first time they are used. but i have just had mine soaking for a couple of hours, put them back in the bike and the bastard thing still doesnt work! im lost! grrr!

This sounds so like my hubby with his 125. Drove him insane the amount of times he had it apart, cleaned the plates, soaked them etc etc.
He's away at the moment otherwise i'd ask him exactly what it was doing or not doing. I do recall he changed to Motul oil from Bel Ray and also it still didn't seem to be working right but after it was running for a bit he took it around the back yard & it become fine. Maybe by then the oil had got through & coated everything properly

[zeRax]

what you wanna do is rev it to the moon and stomp the gear lever into gear while holding in clutch !, sure fire way to make a change of sorts... :P 80/90, better pour some thinners in there pal !


(disclaimer- do nothing of the above)

[WRT]

Check you have the plates in round the right way. On the CR250's they have a notch on one edge of the teeth, and if you put them on inside out then the notches catch on the basket and the clutch stops working no matter how much you pull the lever (would probably work when you first fit them, but not once the basket etc is spinning so sounds to me like it could be your problem).

A lot of riders use Automatic Transmission Fluid as per B000M's suggestion, I've never heard of it going wrong and it's cheap as chips (I use Motul Transoil personally). I wouldn't bother replacing the oil every 5 hrs; on a 2 stroke that's probably a bit excessive as (unlike a four stroke) the oil is separate from the engine and therefore less prone to contamination. I personally replace the oil about every 6 months, but I'd do it more frequently if I was using a cheaper oil such as ATF. You will notice the oil discolours soon after changing; this is due to the fibres from the plates and normal.

Buddy L - New fibres normally recommend soaking before fitment, so if you have used degreaser on them I'd definitely soak them before putting them back in.

Note that all of the above is from my own experience and other's recommendations to me; even though I' do the work on my own CRs, I don't claim to be a mechanic.

[morg_nz]

Just checked the plates and steels - both are completly symmetrical - i.e. nothing different on one side than the other, so I dont think I could have them in the wrong way. I will have to get some thinner oil and give that a go - I see that most 2t gearbox oil is 10W30 or 10W40 (motul). so that might be causing the problem!


Check you have the plates in round the right way. On the CR250's they have a notch on one edge of the teeth, and if you put them on inside out then the notches catch on the basket and the clutch stops working no matter how much you pull the lever (would probably work when you first fit them, but not once the basket etc is spinning so sounds to me like it could be your problem).

A lot of riders use Automatic Transmission Fluid as per B000M's suggestion, I've never heard of it going wrong and it's cheap as chips (I use Motul Transoil personally). I wouldn't bother replacing the oil every 5 hrs; on a 2 stroke that's probably a bit excessive as (unlike a four stroke) the oil is separate from the engine and therefore less prone to contamination. I personally replace the oil about every 6 months, but I'd do it more frequently if I was using a cheaper oil such as ATF. You will notice the oil discolours soon after changing; this is due to the fibres from the plates and normal.

Buddy L - New fibres normally recommend soaking before fitment, so if you have used degreaser on them I'd definitely soak them before putting them back in.

Note that all of the above is from my own experience and other's recommendations to me; even though I' do the work on my own CRs, I don't claim to be a mechanic.

[CRF119]

Yea 10-40 is what castrol GPS is just go buy some :yes:


I personally replace the oil about every 6 months.


You must be so nice to your clutch, Mine is dragging after 10 hours and it runs seperate to the engine. Eaither that or you do very lil riding. :scooter:

Mine is replaced every 5-7 hours

[xen]

80W90 gear oil is about the same as 20W40 engine oil, see http://www.maximausa.com/technical/lubenews/spring98.pdf
I've been using 80W90 for a year with no probs. KTM recommends an oil change every 40hrs or after every race.. lol

[tommorth]

must be a long race mine would have all leaked out by 40 hours

[B0000M]

Check you have the plates in round the right way. On the CR250's they have a notch on one edge of the teeth, and if you put them on inside out then the notches catch on the basket and the clutch stops working n[/I]


really? what year CR is this relevant to? ive never noticed the notch.... i mustve got lucky!

[warewolf]

80W90 gear oil is about the same as 20W40 engine oilYou beat me to it. IIRC a couple of years ago Motorex re-badged their 2T gearbox oil from the big number down to the smaller number, possibly due to people's misconceptions about what the number meant.

But equally, you'd have to make sure you weren't using the 80-90 weight oil designed for differentials & shafties etc (hypoid??) ... that's stuff's as heavy as you'd think and has the wrong additives for a wet clutch.

[morg_nz]

UPDATE - bike is now working and running perfecetly - and I have decided there were two problems:

1) Firstly, i think the clutch stopped working because of how worn the basket was
2) Me - after I so nicely filed back the basket, putting that 80W90 oil in was not going to let it work

I bought some motul stuff last night (was only 4 dollars more too - should have bought it in the first place), but before i changed the oil i let the bike idle for about 10 min to get the oil nice and warm. after idleing for 10 min the clutch did work happily, but i could only just start the bike in gear.

I changed the oil and immediately i could push the bike in gear with the clutch, and start it in gear too - made all the difference!

anyways, thanks for all your help !

[WRT]

really? what year CR is this relevant to? ive never noticed the notch.... i mustve got lucky!

'01 for sure, I've just looked at the microfiche to show you but it doesn't give a clear enough picture. Haven't had the '04s clutch apart yet so can't say for sure on that one.

[CookMySock]

Ick, I didn't see that you had put fucken diff oil in it. Yeah thicker oil really screws up bike gearboxes.

Steve

[L Rider]

UPDATE - bike is now working and running perfecetly - and I have decided there were two problems:

1) Firstly, i think the clutch stopped working because of how worn the basket was
2) Me - after I so nicely filed back the basket, putting that 80W90 oil in was not going to let it work

I bought some motul stuff last night (was only 4 dollars more too - should have bought it in the first place), but before i changed the oil i let the bike idle for about 10 min to get the oil nice and warm. after idleing for 10 min the clutch did work happily, but i could only just start the bike in gear.

I changed the oil and immediately i could push the bike in gear with the clutch, and start it in gear too - made all the difference!

anyways, thanks for all your help !


Yah, glad you got it sorted:yes: great feeling i bet when you've beaten the bloody thing.
We stick to Motul now.

[CookMySock]

We stick to Motul now.I've heard of ATF in 2T gearboxes. Quite common it seems.

Steve

[vifferman]

Indeed - I first used it in my Elsinore back in 1975 (in both the gearbox and forks)!
I was going to chip in (if it hadn't come right) that maybe you hadn't torqued the clutch bolts evenly - that's what I did waaaaay back then, and had to ride it sans clutch to get to work and back.

[CRF119]

The clutch bolts bottom out so that shouldnt cause any problems. Sweet thats its fixed lesson lernt use the correct oil haha