Mesmerised

[Ratti]

Was trying to keep up with riders on a night time ride.

the chap in front of me had on a hivis vest with reflective strips. I kept having to force myself to not stare at his vest and ignore the road. It was like being a rabbit in the headlights, so hard to do.
Is this a common phenomena or do I have a problem that is mine and all mine?

Is it something like the hazard fixation thing?

any sensible thoughts welcome thanks

[98tls]

"Trying to keep up".

[Ratti]

nana rider. I try but seldom succeed

[CookMySock]

Is it something like the hazard fixation thing?I think its more just a "fucking distracting" thing. I'd be getting in front of him.

Steve

[Ratti]

I wish DB. Im a really crap rider and was following him trying to match cornering and speed. the idea was great, but the reality was all wrong.

[avgas]

But fluro vests are the safest thing on the road........
they stop bullets, trains and even bad drivers.

or at least that is what some on here would make you think.

[CookMySock]

I wish DB. Im a really crap rider and was following him trying to match cornering and speed. the idea was great, but the reality was all wrong.Hrm actually the idea is fraught with danger, especially at night. Pretty much your only option is to let him out of your sight.

You're not a crap rider, you're just either inexperienced, timid, or uninformed - all of which are easily rectified. ;)

Steve

[Ratti]

db darling, trust me I am crap rider! I stopped riding when I was pregnant with my first son. Had 3 offs in 2 weeks and lost my nerve. Havent been back on a bike until last september. I have a lot to learn, that was the point of following someone else. he wasnt going fast at all. hes an experienced mentor and was riding really slow over the 'takas so I could follow him safely. Time and lots of hours on the road are the only solution for my issues. IN the meantime, dont follow Ratti!

AS for the Hi vis vests, well they certainly are visible. I wear one as well, I figure If i glow then it takes away one excuse for cagers to miss seeing me. It all helps. but i dont advocate it for everyone, we all have our choices and Id hate to see them made compulsory.

[howdamnhard]

Practice your lines and speed during the day when you can see the road properly. After you have got that better sussed then do some night riding. If something is bothering you tell the person training/mentoring you so that they can do something about it. Removing the hi-vis jacket may not help much as then you have the tail light to contend with. Don't despair about your riding, we all have to start somewhere. I ride comparatively slowly but at least I don't crash (often).

[Jantar]

..... It was like being a rabbit in the headlights, so hard to do.
Is this a common phenomena or do I have a problem that is mine and all mine?

Is it something like the hazard fixation thing?

any sensible thoughts welcome thanks

At night, I prefer to ride alone. If I am in a group I prefer to be at the front, or tail end charlie and be right at the back. Anything that takes your eyes off the road is a distraction and should be avoided. High vis vests may help with making the rider more visible in solo city riding, but for anything else they are useless.

[CookMySock]

I have a lot to learn, that was the point of following someone else. he wasnt going fast at all. hes an experienced mentor and was riding really slow over the 'takas so I could follow him safely. Time and lots of hours on the road are the only solution for my issues. IN the meantime, dont follow Ratti!
Actually, following Ratti is probably what she needs the most. After that, the mentor is in a position to speak concisely and directly to you about the diffculties he/she thinks you are facing.

Also, a night-time ride isn't really a useful practice environment, unless you are practicing getting over your fears, coz there will be plenty of them as you noted. Calm, cool, stress-free afternoons are probably more your tune.

So I'm surprised your mentor is in front, unless he/she can read your mind from up there. No doubt they had a cunning plan we are not privy to. ;)


Steve

[Toaster]

I wish DB. Im a really crap rider and was following him trying to match cornering and speed. the idea was great, but the reality was all wrong.

Remind me at tonight's ride and we will organise something to help.

[Ratti]

you guys are awesome.
Mostly it is fear I need to conquer. I am aware of the specific situations in which I am most chicken.
Dark does not bother me much,I just slow down.
downhill cornering sux big time, its what i was doing when I had the offs and its like a muscle memory or something.I tense up and stop thinking. Ive been doing lots of solo downhills trying to get over myself without endangering anyone else. Buck Buck and Katiepie very kindly crawled down the Paekak hill with me last tuesday and it was the best Ive felt down that hill so far.
Yikes, decided to have a look at Moonshine road last Friday night, went in from the Haywards end and it was all good, then I got over the ridge into the Hutt...bloody hell. Sealed goat track best describes that stretch, er I think I'd best leave that one for a while too. Only casualty was my side cover, fortunalty only 2 vehicles coming toward me and nothing behind.
Mostly I was way out of my depth doing the 'takas in the dark right now. One day tho.. shit, I never had a car until I chucked bikes at 26, rode everywhere and never thought twice about it.Its really frustrating knowing that its in there somewhere and not being able to find what I need.

[howdamnhard]

Mostly it is fear I need to conquer. I am aware of the specific situations in which I am most chicken.
Dark does not bother me much,I just slow down.
downhill cornering sux big time, its what i was doing when I had the offs and its like a muscle memory or something.I tense up and stop thinking. Ive been doing lots of solo downhills trying to get over myself without endangering anyone else. Its really frustrating knowing that its in there somewhere and not being able to find what I need.
When riding downhill through corners gear down (like you would in a cage) and use engine braking to control your basic speed. You can then still use brakes and clutch to fine tune for the corners. It's good your practicing,you will get there ,don't despair. It's good that you are atking it slowly, always ride within your comfort zone. It's okay to extend yourself a little (thats how we improve) but to far can lead to painful consequences.

[Ratti]

thanks. BuckBuck was demonstrating that on the way down the hill and it helped no end. He would signal what he was doing and I followed him. That and which part of the corner to aim for. We had a good talk about the physics of cornering and it made a big difference. More practice. more practice.
Im intending to take Toaster up tonight as the road we are following has some good practice corners on it. Im semi familiar with that road too so that should help the confidance level a little. Cautious is ok, but at the moment I feel like its gone too far and Im a bloody menace.

[howdamnhard]

Offs tend to make you gunshy but you will get there. You confidence will come back ,your on the right track just keep on riding.

[CookMySock]

You can't really conquer your fears. You have to let them subside quietly in what you know is a safe environment. Unfortunately, pushing yourself through corners isn't really a safe environment, or at least your brain doesn't think so.

Sometimes you just need time. There is no rush anyway - when all this learning to ride is over, you will miss it, so don't be in a hurry. It's fun learning to ride.

If it were me showing you, I'd suggest you simply go slow, absolutely steer only with the bars, position your tyres exactly within your half-lane (no apexing corners), and simply gain time and experience and let the speed build naturally over time - which it will.

Later on you can apex corners, but for the moment you need accuracy, skill, and discipline, and mostly ability to exactly choose your position on the road, using the bars-only. With those skills will follow speed, and your strong feelings subsiding. Then and only then, go find some corners to apex, but if your feelings begin to rise, resort to the basics. This will also likely save you in an emergency.

:niceone:

Steve

[Ratti]

half lane?

[CookMySock]

half lane?Ask one of the lads or ladettes to point them out. It's the polished wheel tracks that the cars make on the road surface coz their tyres run there. The right-hand-side one is likely where you ride anyways. Try sticking to the right-hand one like poo to a furry blanket. Watch out you don't touch the catseyes, or they will give you a fright, or in the wet they will tip you off.

Steve

[george formby]

Good on ya for getting out & practicing. Riding at night can be terrible on a bike. Your vision restricted to that little bubble of light in front you stops you looking further ahead & can make it difficult to judge speed. As already stated I feel far safer riding on my own, following somebodys tail light ( hi viz jacket ) leaves you vulnerable to their mistakes. A group of mates ended up in a plowed field doing just that. The first rider went into a corner to hot & chose to go through an open gate instead, 6 other bikes followed him. I now watch the reflector's at the road side to give me a better indication of were the road is going. They light up way ahead of the beam & it allows me to keep a good position, safe speed & have the time to watch the road surface in my headlight beam.

[Ratti]

lol, i see this vision of a mama duck and her little ducklets pootling off into a feild...

the reflective patches on those wee poles are good. It did occur to me that I was taking a heck of a chance following this guy, I distinctly recal muttering several times "you better know what you are doing mate" That part of following is not a great feeling. I dont mind so much when I make a mess of things unaided, but blindly following someone else into their mess is just wrong.

[CookMySock]

It did occur to me that I was taking a heck of a chance following this guy, I distinctly recal muttering several times "you better know what you are doing mate" That part of following is not a great feeling. I dont mind so much when I make a mess of things unaided, but blindly following someone else into their mess is just wrong.GROWL, this was a KBer with :Me after their name? Thats fucken bullshit, man.

No slight on you, Ratti, but no mentor in their right mind should be asking you to do that. Was it really an organised "exercise" ?

You are dead right to feel unsafe in that circumstance. Perhaps on the track it might have been acceptable, but emphatically not at night on an unfamiliar road with a newbie with their feelings going through the roof.

Steve

[Ratti]

not a KBr. through a club. It was one of our regular club rides. I hadn't asked him to guide me , he wasnt acting as a mentor at the time, its just that he knows I have difficulties and helps out when he can. It's very likely that he had no idea I was freaking out and close to losing the plot and going home. On reflection that is what I should have done. Still, no harm done, Anything I can walk away from intact has its upside.

its all cool, I've exchanged a couple of emails with him and we've got it sorted. Communication is everything.

[CookMySock]

Ah well, as you say it wasn't an expensive lesson. As far as lessons go, they can get real pricey compared to that.

Best of luck with your riding, and I hope not too much of it does come down to luck. ;)

Steve

[wingnutt]

Hello,
Yeh it can really dent the confidence, having an off, and it will take time, but the idea is not to push things, take it slow, and your confidence will come back, and you will be a better rider for it.

Plan your run, before you leave, it is a good way to learn slowly, sit down at home with a map google earth, etc, this will give you an idea of what you might encounter, if you don’t like the feel of it, sort another road.

Set goals within the run, not too many, no hurry, you will feel a lot better, with each maneuver you get right.

ride in the daylight, if you can, night riding is not that easy at the best of times, even the experts fluff it, daylight will give you way better perspective.

All the very best, it takes a lot of courage, to get back on a bike after a fall, I reckon you should pat your self on the back, that’s the start.

Robbie

[CookMySock]

Another thing that will help - ride with other learner ladies, or people you like. Find out who is the least experienced and put them out the front.

Ride somewhere not too far, and do simple and enjoyable things, like go for coffee, and make sure its relaxed and hilarious.

Soon you will be chompin' at the bit to go riding. ;)

Steve

[Ratti]

We are doing that this weekend, after getting a thing or two sorted with a young man who was attempting to take over. A few of us women riders are heading for a nice slow pootle up to Otaki for breakfast.
Went on the tuesday night ride lst night and it was around the coast road here. Lots of corners, a bit of unexpected gravel and a chat at the pub afterward. Was really good. I atttempted to apply the half lane thing, it made sense once I was out there. I think I did ok all things considered. Was really funny tho, I lost the sport bikes on the gravel. They all slowed down and I continued at the speed I had been doing. We talked about it later and decided it was two things.
1. the zed is a heavy beast and doesnt wiggle on pea gravel so i really didnt notice it
2. flash bikes get expensive in an off so the riders get nervous, my bike is a rat bike so a few more dents and soemthing else fallling off doesn't really bother me.
funny eh?

[CookMySock]

after getting a thing or two sorted with a young man who was attempting to take over.MWAHHH!! Was there a teary eye or two? Silly boys should leave the ladies alone, unless they are INVITED(*glare*) and even then they should shutup.


A few of us women riders are heading for a nice slow pootle up to Otaki for breakfast. Went on the tuesday night ride lst night and it was around the coast road here. Lots of corners, a bit of unexpected gravel and a chat at the pub afterward. Was really good. I atttempted to apply the half lane thing, it made sense once I was out there.Good shit. Thats what you need - fun days out with fun people, with little doses of success, and a good size grin in yer face when ya gets home.


I lost the sport bikes on the gravel. They all slowed down and I continued at the speed I had been doing. We talked about it later and decided it was two things.
1. the zed is a heavy beast and doesnt wiggle on pea gravel so i really didnt notice it
2. flash bikes get expensive in an off so the riders get nervous, my bike is a rat bike so a few more dents and soemthing else fallling off doesn't really bother me. funny eh?LOL yeah, and it's your skill and experience starting to show.

You'll be fine. Just make sure the experienced people are behind you (sucks to be them!) and the newbies are out in front, and then just sit back, ride and enjoy, and think "accuracy" on those bars. Soon your strong feelings will subside (I think they're doing that already) and the grin factor and confidence will rise, along with your ability and finally will come cornering speed, last where it should be.

Have you met up with the welly bucket racer crew? This girls/guys are funny to watch, and you'll learn a lot from them at their outings. Nice folks too.


Steve

[Ratti]

He looked more stunned than anything. He's a lovely chap and keen as mustard,but outta line, severely outta line. And Im a stroppy middle aged woman with a shit load of experience at dealing with pushy people. Its all good tho, we still friends and he is doing his own breakfast run on saturday, and we wil do ours on sunday. Everyone is happy and everyone is winning. I like that.

Laugh if you like, what are BUcket racers?

[CookMySock]

LOL funny. Oh well, poor fella. But moving on ;


BUcket racers?They race cheapie less-than-150cc bikes around a little tarseal track, dragging their knee on the corners. There's a big crew of them down your way. Fun to watch, and you might pick up some tips.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/forumdisplay.php/91-Buckets

Steve

[blackdog]

when all this learning to ride is over,


show me a rider who has 'learned' everything. anyone who thinks they have is going to learn some more.....the hard way

we never stop learning. ask valentino if he knows it all yet........

apart from that, all good advice i reckon

[CookMySock]

show me a rider who has 'learned' everything.Ah yeah that is true.

I think there is a time to stop feeling like a total newbie though.

Steve

[blackdog]

Ah yeah that is true.

I think there is a time to stop feeling like a total newbie though.

Steve

agreed

confidence/learning is like a power curve....

[Ratti]

hmm, that graph looks promising. I hadnt thought of it like that. Bloody lot of riding on that steep bit isnt there?
1/4 of ones riding life not really improving, 1/2 on a steep learning curve, and 1/4 with tiny incremental learning....

[george formby]

hmm, that graph looks promising. I hadnt thought of it like that. Bloody lot of riding on that steep bit isnt there?
1/4 of ones riding life not really improving, 1/2 on a steep learning curve, and 1/4 with tiny incremental learning....

It's all time on the bike. Different roads, varied states of mind, warm, cold or wet. Somedays everything seems to come together effortlessly & I feel like flying, somedays I feel like I'm riding a pennyfarthing in a motocross. Thats usually when I learn the most.

[pritch]

When following another bike it's necessary to look past it up the road, not to look at it. If you're following someone and catch yourself watching them you have to make yourself look away.

Might be difficult though if the rider happens to be wearing luminous gear and is in the glare of your headlight? :whistle:

[CookMySock]

When following another bike it's necessary to look past it up the road, not to look at it. If you're following someone and catch yourself watching them you have to make yourself look away.

Might be difficult though if the rider happens to be wearing luminous gear and is in the glare of your headlight? :whistle:She should not be in that position at all, considering her inexperience, and we all know how dangerous it is for newbies following experienced riders.

Steve

[Ratti]

Relax Steve, breathe in, breathe out...

I had the choice to turn around and ride home again. I stuck with it and fortunatly no harm was done except to my pride.
I learnt a valuable lesson and that alone made the experience worthwhile.

[Lurch]

I must admit, from time to time riding South from the Hutt Valley into Wellington just after dark you get this gentle night time Northerly creating what feels like a still pocket of air around you. There's no wind noise, no road noise, very few cars for reference points and just the trickle of cats eyes in your vision along the gentle curves of SH2.

For some reason at these times I have to fight to not be hypnotised by the road. If you look down your speedo says 120 but you look up and it feels like your standing still.

[Ratti]

Foxton straights do that to me everytime I travel them at night. and there is an uphill long curve not far from Whangas that catchs me out at night. WOuld it have happend before the catseyes were in place tho? I was only learning to drive/ride when they were introduced and don't have much pre-catseye expereince.
It's almost like the flashing light stimulus that will set off an epileptic.