Torque wrenches

[Logpot]

The service manual I have makes a lot of noise about the importance of using the correct torque when tightening bolts etc - and rightly so :yes:

In they manual they use kg-m as their torque measurement e.g. 3 kg-m which according to the online converters = 29Nm.

I want to get a torque wrench for my tool collection but after checking out a few examples in the weekend I'm not sure what size or brand to get.

1/2 drive, 1/4 drive, 3/8 drive?

[k14]

Well firstly what size socket sets do you use? For a bike ideally you would have all three however you can probably get by with just a 3/8. For building my gsxr600 engine I used a 1/4 and 1/2 just because that is all I had available. 3/8 should probably manage everything from 8mm head to 22mm with no problems and that should cover about 98% of the bolts on your bike.

[Edbear]

The service manual I have makes a lot of noise about the importance of using the correct torque when tightening bolts etc - and rightly so :yes:

In they manual they use kg-m as their torque measurement e.g. 3 kg-m which according to the online converters = 29Nm.

I want to get a torque wrench for my tool collection but after checking out a few examples in the weekend I'm not sure what size or brand to get.

1/2 drive, 1/4 drive, 3/8 drive?

http://www.sulco.co.nz/Category?Action=View&Category_id=470

3/8 drive would probably suit for the torque you mention and are generally the cheaper option. Call SULCO on 0800 800 488

[cromagnon]

To convert from kg-m to N-m just multiply the kg-m number by 10 and you will be close enough. If you want to be precise its 9.81 (gravity).

[sil3nt]

Supercheap and bunnings have them for between $60 and $80. Are they rubbish?

[UberRhys]

Well firstly what size socket sets do you use? For a bike ideally you would have all three however you can probably get by with just a 3/8. For building my gsxr600 engine I used a 1/4 and 1/2 just because that is all I had available. 3/8 should probably manage everything from 8mm head to 22mm with no problems and that should cover about 98% of the bolts on your bike.

I agree with this, the best comprimise is a 3/8 drive set. The best thing I have seen for a while in the shop from Powerbuilt was a torque adapter for 3/8 & 1/2 sets. It is digital so you key in the torque your looking for, snap it on to your rachet with you socket on the other end, and it beeps when you get to the pre-set torque.

Can't remember the price but it was cheaper then the 3/8 torque wrench I bought that clicks when it get to the torque setting. Smaller too...


Supercheap and bunnings have them for between $60 and $80. Are they rubbish?

Get what you pay for...

[k14]

Supercheap and bunnings have them for between $60 and $80. Are they rubbish?
If you have to ask then you know the answer

[dipshit]

I have two for carrying out various jobs on my bike. One 3/8 drive 10-100 ftlbs for mainly tightening the axle nut .

Then another 4.4-22 ftlbs 1/4 drive for more delicate jobs like fitting spark plugs.

[slofox]

I still have the one I bought 35 years ago. Still seems to work...

[dipshit]

Supercheap and bunnings have them for between $60 and $80. Are they rubbish?

For the occasional use at home they are better than not having any torque wrench and just guessing tightness.

Just don't rely on them at the extremes of their range. At their price you can afford to have a couple of the different sizes for various jobs and use them in the middle of their range.

[Edbear]

I still have the one I bought 35 years ago. Still seems to work...

Hmmm... Mine's only 30 years old, I think from memory I paid $36.00 for it and it's still in the original foam and cardboard box.

[dipshit]

Hmmm... Mine's only 30 years old, I think from memory I paid $36.00 for it and it's still in the original foam and cardboard box.

I trust you guys have had them calibrated from time to time..???

[UberRhys]

Then another 4.4-22 ftlbs 1/4 drive for more delicate jobs like fitting spark plugs.

you must have plenty of spare time on your hands... :laugh:

[dipshit]

you must have plenty of spare time on your hands...

Why you say that..???

[Edbear]

I trust you guys have had them calibrated from time to time..???

Ummm... well, it's only ever been used at home and has hardly been out of the box since I stopped doing homer's back in the late '80's... I used to do a few repairs for friends and had a good sized garage with a pit back in Taupo but after moving North I gradually stopped the mechanics. Now I just call Tim, (Classic_Z), and he can get his hands dirty.

[CookMySock]

You don't really need a torque wrench for doing up wheel nuts and other larger things.

What you mainly need a torque wrench for, is not destroying little things by over-torquing them - particularly important if you are working on bike engines, as the tiny little M4 and M6 bolts will just twist right off or else strip their little alloy housing.

So it depends what you are doing. Take a look at what range torque settings you require, and that will tell you what to buy. Most torque wrenches have an upper and lower useful limit, so one size definitely does not fit all.

Steve

[slofox]

I trust you guys have had them calibrated from time to time..???

Not much to calibrate Mine's just a steel bar with a pointer to measure the degree of bend...to be honest, I have used it once in about the last thirty of those years...and that was to do up a steering stem nut a couple of weeks ago...65lb/ft as I recall...

[dipshit]

Not much to calibrate Mine's just a steel bar with a pointer to measure the degree of bend..

Those things are horrid! :sick:

[slofox]

Those things are horrid! :sick:

When I bought it (in the olden days y'know) it was all I could get!

[quickbuck]

I trust you guys have had them calibrated from time to time..???

Yup,
Every month :)

[2wheeled Gasman]

seeing as we are talking about calibration..... who does it and how often should the wrench be calibrated?:stupid:

[dipshit]

Yup,
Every month :)

I was more meaning the guys that have 30 - 35 year-old ones.

[CookMySock]

Yup, Every month :)You must surely work for the airforce! :niceone:

Steve

[Logpot]

You don't really need a torque wrench for doing up wheel nuts and other larger things.

What you mainly need a torque wrench for, is not destroying little things by over-torquing them - particularly important if you are working on bike engines, as the tiny little M4 and M6 bolts will just twist right off or else strip their little alloy housing.

So it depends what you are doing. Take a look at what range torque settings you require, and that will tell you what to buy. Most torque wrenches have an upper and lower useful limit, so one size definitely does not fit all.

Steve

The first job is to put my front wheel and brake calliper back on.

The front brake calliper uses 8mm bolts and is tightened to 2.4-3.0 kg-m. The front wheel axle holder uses either an 8mm or 10mm nuts (can't recall) and is tightened to 1.8-2.5kg-m.

Is it that important to get it spot on or is 'tight enough' good enough?

[CookMySock]

The first job is to put my front wheel and brake calliper back on.

The front brake calliper uses 8mm bolts and is tightened to 2.4-3.0 kg-m. The front wheel axle holder uses either an 8mm or 10mm nuts (can't recall) and is tightened to 1.8-2.5kg-m.

Is it that important to get it spot on or is 'tight enough' good enough?Nah you are right. I was thinking of the rear axle nut when I wrote that.

As you were! ;)

edit: yes it is important to get those bolts right.

Steve

[Ixion]

The first job is to put my front wheel and brake calliper back on.

The front brake calliper uses 8mm bolts and is tightened to 2.4-3.0 kg-m. The front wheel axle holder uses either an 8mm or 10mm nuts (can't recall) and is tightened to 1.8-2.5kg-m.

Is it that important to get it spot on or is 'tight enough' good enough?

I got three. The important one being the 1/4" drive. But mainly I use my precision calibrated hands. Caliper bolts are tight as buggery , axle bolts tight as a sailor on payday. Works for me. Mainly use the torque wrench for things like BMW flywheel bolts which have to be as tight as a Scotchman in a synagogue, and easy to underestimate, my hands are only calibrated to about 30 lb-ft.

[CookMySock]

Hrm, my hands are calibrated from about 20nm to about 80nm, and my right boot from about 60-200nm.

Anything under 20nm, use a proper tool for, or I use my calibrated wrist or thumb .


Steve

[gatch]

I made a torque wrench when I was at poly tech. Pissed me right off when the instructor used a factor of 10 instead of gravity (9.81) to convert kg to N. Then a whole bunch of other short cuts leading to a nice looking but ultimately shit tool.

All that work for a hammer with a 1/2" drive in the end.

[quickbuck]

I was more meaning the guys that have 30 - 35 year-old ones.

You think ours are new??
I know a couple of them are at least 20 years old!

[quickbuck]

You must surely work for the airforce! :niceone:

Steve

Did this bit " quickbuck

NCO i/c Team Air Force Racing" Give it away??

[CookMySock]

Did this bit "quickbuck NCO i/c Team Air Force Racing" Give it away??No, but it was a big hint! :niceone:

Steve

[Logpot]

I had to wait for some new caliper bracket bolts from Japan as my current ones looked shagged.

I've managed to borrow 2 wrenches - a Warren and Brown which is about 15 years old similar to this:
http://www.warrenandbrown.com.au/UserFiles/Image/323500a.jpg

And a more modern Powerbuilt 3/8 drive wrench.

Let the fun begin.

[UberRhys]

I had to wait for some new caliper bracket bolts from Japan as my current ones looked shagged.

I've managed to borrow 2 wrenches - a Warren and Brown which is about 15 years old similar to this:
http://www.warrenandbrown.com.au/UserFiles/Image/323500a.jpg

And a more modern Powerbuilt 3/8 drive wrench.

Let the fun begin.

Wow, that likes like a nice piece of kit... :)

[Ixion]

Doesn't get much better than W&B for torque wrenches. Mine's more like 35 years old , but same as.

[neels]

Doesn't get much better than W&B for torque wrenches. Mine's more like 35 years old , but same as.

I used to calibrate them, if they're good they're good, but they can be horribly wrong. Same applies to any torque wrench.

The other thing to bear in mind is that the accuracy is quite often 4% of full scale value, if you're setting them for bugger all on the scale you might as well use a calibrated wrist.

[Flip]

I have an old 1/2" sidchrome clicker torque wrench that I have owned for 30 years and I have just brought a nice new 1/4" one for all those fiddley little things on modern bikes. The front primary sprocket bolt on my HD is tightened to 250ft/lbs which is a bit of a bugger as my 1/2" stopped at 180.

[Ixion]

I used to calibrate them, if they're good they're good, but they can be horribly wrong. Same applies to any torque wrench.

The other thing to bear in mind is that the accuracy is quite often 4% of full scale value, if you're setting them for bugger all on the scale you might as well use a calibrated wrist.

Yes, that's why you need two for bikes, 1/2" and 1/4"

[neels]

The front primary sprocket bolt on my HD is tightened to 250ft/lbs which is a bit of a bugger as my 1/2" stopped at 180.
That's about the same torque as the axle nuts on the SAAB 900 I used to own. I worked out my weight x 1.5 ft bar = stand on the end of the thing and call it about right.

[sinned]

You don't really need a torque wrench for doing up wheel nuts and other larger things.

What you mainly need a torque wrench for, is not destroying little things by over-torquing them - particularly important if you are working on bike engines, as the tiny little M4 and M6 bolts will just twist right off or else strip their little alloy housing.

So it depends what you are doing. Take a look at what range torque settings you require, and that will tell you what to buy. Most torque wrenches have an upper and lower useful limit, so one size definitely does not fit all.

Steve

BTW at Beaurepaires a month ago they set the wheel nuts on the car with a torque wrench. The benefit of this is the nuts will not be over tightened so if I get a flat the wrench in the tool kit will undo the nuts.
Unfortunately one torque wrench will not cover the range required on a bike.


That's about the same torque as the axle nuts on the SAAB 900 I used to own. I worked out my weight x 1.5 ft bar = stand on the end of the thing and call it about right.
You have just answered the question on how to calibrate/check a TW.

[Flip]

Thats exactly how I did it in the end. Just by a fluke my weight x the length of my 3/4" socket set strong arm = 250 ft/lbs

[SS90]

You don't really need a torque wrench for doing up wheel nuts and other larger things.

What you mainly need a torque wrench for, is not destroying little things by over-torquing them - particularly important if you are working on bike engines, as the tiny little M4 and M6 bolts will just twist right off or else strip their little alloy housing.

So it depends what you are doing. Take a look at what range torque settings you require, and that will tell you what to buy. Most torque wrenches have an upper and lower useful limit, so one size definitely does not fit all.

Steve

Steve, that is dangerous advise you are giving there.

Every single "home mechanic" needs to know that a torque wrench is critical for correct tension of wheel nut, suspension components etc.

Particularly on late model sports bikes, a too loose/too tight axle nut will have a massive effect on handling/safety.

I wonder, when you remove your front suspension, then refit it, do you leave all the fasteners slightly loose, and bounce the front end up and down slightly to alighn everything before correctly torquing all the bolts down?

I challenge that if you did, your bike will handle just that little bit better.

[Owl]

Yes, that's why you need two for bikes, 1/2" and 1/4"

Perhaps more emphasis on torque range, rather than drive size.

[CookMySock]

Steve, that is dangerous advise you are giving there.

Every single "home mechanic" needs to know that a torque wrench is critical for correct tension of wheel nut, suspension components etc.

Particularly on late model sports bikes, a too loose/too tight axle nut will have a massive effect on handling/safety.

I wonder, when you remove your front suspension, then refit it, do you leave all the fasteners slightly loose, and bounce the front end up and down slightly to alighn everything before correctly torquing all the bolts down?

I challenge that if you did, your bike will handle just that little bit better.Points taken and conceded.

I know I should use a torque wrench on everything, but I don't, and I've broken my share of things as I tend to err on the tight side. So I'm economising and not using the expensive tools - probably until it's cheaper to do it the expensive way. Ah well..

Steve

[davereid]

I know I should use a torque wrench on everything, but I don't, and I've broken my share of things...

I never used a torque wrench for anything, except critical things like head bolts. But one or two things worked their way lose, or stripped, so I started to use one a lot more.

Its like a GPS in the car. Before you had one, you could find your way most anywhere, with the odd incorrect turn. Once you get GPS, if it doesnt work, you get lost straight away.

So, I have to use a torque wrench all the time now, I don't have even remotely calibrated hands anymore !

It slows me down, and nuts still come off or strip, wish Id never picked the bloody thing up really !

[sil3nt]

I've always wondered if mechanics actually torque everything. They certainly didn't when reattaching my rear light assembly as i found out when it smashed all over the road!

[SS90]

I've always wondered if mechanics actually torque everything. They certainly didn't when reattaching my rear light assembly as i found out when it smashed all over the road!

For a tail light lens?, no, for most everything else, it's up to the individual mechanic.

[CookMySock]

I never used a torque wrench for anything, except critical things like head bolts. But one or two things worked their way lose, or stripped, so I started to use one a lot more.

Its like a GPS in the car. Before you had one, you could find your way most anywhere, with the odd incorrect turn. Once you get GPS, if it doesnt work, you get lost straight away.

So, I have to use a torque wrench all the time now, I don't have even remotely calibrated hands anymore !

It slows me down, and nuts still come off or strip, wish Id never picked the bloody thing up really !Dayam, it doesn't sound like you are much better off than I.

My calibrated wrist actually works pretty well. After 30 years of working on things, I know what a bolt feels like when it yields, so I can do torque-to-yield real well. :laugh: It's especially easy on long bolts as you can feel them stretch.

It took me about a year to stop stripping things on bikes, and I don't have things coming loose at all so maybe I'm doing alright! I don't do a lot of engine work though.

Steve

[gatch]

My calibrated wrist actually works pretty well. After 30 years of working on things, I know what a bolt feels like when it yields, so I can do torque-to-yield real well. :laugh: It's especially easy on long bolts as you can feel them stretch.

You should run a class on this..

The amount of fucked threads, nuts, studs etc that I have to fix/remanufacture at work, because some dumbarse' wrist wasn't calibrated properly, is astonishing really.

Maybe I'm from a different school of thinking, but why would you not use a properly calibrated torque wrench ?

[CookMySock]

The amount of fucked threads, nuts, studs etc that I have to fix/remanufacture at work, because some dumbarse' wrist wasn't calibrated properly, is astonishing really.

Maybe I'm from a different school of thinking, but why would you not use a properly calibrated torque wrench ?Same reason as everyone else - I dont want to spend my money on that, or I can't be effed walking to the cabinet to get it. It's just lazyness. Until I stuff something much more expensive than a torque wrench I keep doing it.

It's like buying a thousand bux worth of radar detector - it's the right way to do it, but no one does unless they do everything the right way, or they have a grand to piss against the wall, or they have no more demerits left.

Steve

[Pixie]

on tardme:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Tools-repair-kits/Meters-testers/auction-278619801.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Tools-repair-kits/Meters-testers/auction-278947725.htm


Teng = good brand
around $100 very good price

[Pixie]

Hmmm... Mine's only 30 years old, I think from memory I paid $36.00 for it and it's still in the original foam and cardboard box.

Me too
Always reset to zero after use so they aren't stored under tension

$800 worth of torque driver:

201178

[Pixie]

I got three. The important one being the 1/4" drive. But mainly I use my precision calibrated hands. Caliper bolts are tight as buggery , axle bolts tight as a sailor on payday. Works for me. Mainly use the torque wrench for things like BMW flywheel bolts which have to be as tight as a Scotchman in a synagogue, and easy to underestimate, my hands are only calibrated to about 30 lb-ft.

Well the caliper bolts on the bandit are only torqued to 28 ft lb,which is not tight as buggery,only tight as conventional sex,really.

[CookMySock]

Teng = good brand, around $100 very good priceAND thats the first torque wrench I have seen with the torque-to-yield angle scale on it. Full marks, Teng!
The smaller (Range 3-18 Ft. lb/5-25 Nm) would the ducks nuts for small engine work.

I wonder how well the clutch works on these little impact drivers.

<img src="http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/4/114111904_full.jpg">

If the slip clutch was calibratable and repeatable, they would be sooo super-fast for disassembling stuff. Not for newbies to use though, or much strippage would result. Maybe they need a microcontroller in them.

Steve

[swbarnett]

Pissed me right off when the instructor used a factor of 10 instead of gravity (9.81) to convert kg to N.
Even that's an approximation. The figure is actually closer to 9.80665. It all depends of the accuracy you need. Considering the range of torque settings the manual on my CBX quotes I dare say 10 would be good enough (although I'm no mechanic so I could be wrong).

[gatch]

Me too
Always reset to zero after use so they aren't stored under tension

$800 worth of torque driver:

201178

One of the welders (no offense to welders in general) at work is not a particularly smart man, used our mega dollar 1" drive break back style torque wrench to crack some rusted bolts. Complete with his bit of pipe on the handle, he managed to bend the bar, ruin the break mechanism, then puts it back in the stores still tensioned to nearly max setting..

Face palms all round that day..

[pzkpfw]

seeing as we are talking about calibration..... who does it and how often should the wrench be calibrated?:stupid:

Bumping the question.



(I don't even understand my clicker-style torque wrench. The zero on the rotation adjuster doesn't meet any of the marks on the bar itself, so it seems like I have to guess the setting anyway...)

[cbfb]

Bumping the question.



(I don't even understand my clicker-style torque wrench. The zero on the rotation adjuster doesn't meet any of the marks on the bar itself, so it seems like I have to guess the setting anyway...)

Bump...

After today's experience I could say Ripco when I take it back under warranty

But seriously how do you check it's working properly before you snap your cam journal holder bolt off :violin:

[Edbear]

Bump...

After today's experience I could say Ripco when I take it back under warranty

But seriously how do you check it's working properly before you snap your cam journal holder bolt off :violin:

Scroll down to Torque Wrenches... There's a company which does calibrating, I'll look it up.

http://www.sulco.co.nz/monthly_specials/monthly_specials.pdf

[Katman]

Bump...

After today's experience I could say Ripco when I take it back under warranty

But seriously how do you check it's working properly before you snap your cam journal holder bolt off :violin:

If you're going to torque up your cam journal holders you'd want to use a 1/4 drive torque wrench that accurately measures 'inch pounds'.

Otherwise just nip them up a with a 1/4 drive ratchet.

[Edbear]

Calibration at:

Strainer Systems Ltd
Unit 7
318 Beach Haven Road

Beach Haven

North Shore City

Auckland 0626
PO Box 40537
Glenfield
North Shore City 0747 (09) 482 1999 Fax:(09) 482 3086 Mobile:(027) 678 1499 Website Email Established in 1984 as a family business manufacturing rainwater strainers for domestic water collection. In 1986 became repair centre for Norbar Torque Tools Ltd and Torqueleader Products both from the UK.

1994 saw us accepted and registered to Telarc under their Q-base management programme specialising in torque repairs and calibration on all makes of torque tools and equipment.

1998 was the year we were accepted and registered with International Accreditation New Zealand as a Torque Laboratory.


Products

* Calibration and Certification of Torque wrenches and screwdrivers
up to 2700 Newton meters (2000 LB.F/FT)
* Calibration and Certification of Torque transducers and Torque testers
up to 1356 Newton meters (1000 LB.F/FT)

Distributor for:

Norbar Torque Tools Ltd. UK, Torqueleader Products, UK, Sturtevant & Richmont, USA, K.D. Tools USA.

Service repair for:

Norbar Torque Tools Ltd. UK, Torqueleader, UK, Tapmatic Corporation, USA, Huck (Australia) Pty Ltd, Warren & Brown, Australia., Teng Tools, T & E T/Wrenches

[cbfb]

Thanks, that one has been waiting for an answer for a while now!

[schrodingers cat]

I have two for carrying out various jobs on my bike. One 3/8 drive 10-100 ftlbs for mainly tightening the axle nut ..

Simply VFT with a nutfucker. In the big scheme of things having the nuts on torque on a 22mm (ish ?) thread is neither here nor there



Then another 4.4-22 ftlbs 1/4 drive for more delicate jobs like fitting spark plugs.

Seriously? Sure you're not being too anal?


Me too
Always reset to zero after use so they aren't stored under tension

$800 worth of torque driver:

201178

And you get it calibrated every year or so????


In answer to the post - 3/8 drive. Get a decent one, it will serve you all your life.

Use it to train your hands. Torque the fastener up. Get a spanner or favorite rachet and tighten it up again. Check with torque wrench. Learning has occured.

I'm not suggesting that you can have sufficient feel to not bother with a torque wrench. Folks who suggest they have are knobs. However there is more chance of an over tightened fastener failing than an undertightened. Not to mention stripped threads etc
Bikes are full of M5 and M6 fasteners. Most of them are overtightened...

[Brian d marge]

Those things are horrid! :sick:

why are they horrid young sir???

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Hrm, my hands are calibrated from about 20nm to about 80nm, and my right boot from about 60-200nm.

Anything under 20nm, use a proper tool for, or I use my calibrated wrist or thumb .


Steve

works for me and all , have a top of the range super duper snap on torque wrench , it doesn't unfortunately come with the optional extra , Common sense ,, I had to supply that myself

at a guess its probably about 20 or 30 % out of calibration ,,, plus the thread co efficient ,,, it will be in the ball park somewhere Not bad for three hundred pound twenty years ago!!!

Stephen

[neels]

Calibration at:

Strainer Systems Ltd
Unit 7
318 Beach Haven Road

Beach Haven

North Shore City

Auckland 0626
PO Box 40537
Glenfield

Or Air New Zealand Calibration do them as well, either Auckland or Christchurch.

Would recommend them over strainer systems, and not just because I used to work there....

There may be someone local that can check a torque wrench for you, if not there is always the bolt through a bit of metal, tape measure and weight on a string method for a rough check. Just keep adding weight until it clicks, total weight x distance and you'll have an idea of if it's close or not.

[dipshit]

Simply VFT with a nutfucker. In the big scheme of things having the nuts on torque on a 22mm (ish ?) thread is neither here nor there



Seriously? Sure you're not being too anal?

Nope. Suzuki spic calls for 72 lb-ft.

50 lb-ft not enough.

90 lb-ft too much.

Sorry, what can I say. :corn:

[Brian d marge]

Nope. Suzuki spic calls for 72 lb-ft.

50 lb-ft not enough.

90 lb-ft too much.

Sorry, what can I say. :corn: good luck in getting 72
is that a greased thread or a completly dry thread , threads ok?

Stephen

[dipshit]

good luck in getting 72
is that a greased thread or a completly dry thread , threads ok?

Stephen

Completly dry.

I buy new for that reason.

At lest I can get it closer than a MC shop that will say have it at 50 lb-ft after a tyre change. :oi-grr:

[dipshit]

threads ok?

Oh. If no gorilla has ever over torqued it then the threads should be ok.

That's the point of using a torque wrench form the get-go.

[Brian d marge]

Completly dry.

I buy new for that reason.

At lest I can get it closer than a MC shop that will say have it at 50 lb-ft after a tyre change. :oi-grr:

Think about whats happening on say a whhel nut ,,,, then think about how a nut works , then relax

IF you want to run the thing to its ideal , ie thin wall large dia , 90 % of the proof stress is where you are aiming

and the best way is by measuring the stretch if the axil, bolt , screw

Arnt bmw head bolts , snug plus 180deg??

Torque wrenches are a good guide but must be backed up with common sense

Stephen

[tri boy]

Torque wrenches are a good guide but must be backed up with common sense

Stephen

Yup.
But anal muppets will argue that "by the book" is the only way.
(thats why it took NASA engineers over 8hrs to remove one door screw on the shuttle a few years back, they still fucked it up, and delayed launch by 3 days).
By the book:facepalm:

[jonbuoy]

Bump...

After today's experience I could say Ripco when I take it back under warranty

But seriously how do you check it's working properly before you snap your cam journal holder bolt off :violin:

A tape measure and some weights, loads of websites on how to do a quick and dirty DIY calibration/testing. If you don´t have a torque wrench and its steel into ally hold the ratchet at near to the nut end to nip up. Torque settings on motorcycle nuts and bolts can be misleading, usually you can feel when your tightening a bolt or just about to start stripping a thread.

[imdying]

Well, that's not entirely fair. It only took a little over an hour, and did you see where that screw was? And what sort of tools they had to remove it with? I'd have been pretty careful drilling that shit out next to such a large fully fueled tank.

[Brian d marge]

Yup.
But anal muppets will argue that "by the book" is the only way.
(thats why it took NASA engineers over 8hrs to remove one door screw on the shuttle a few years back, they still fucked it up, and delayed launch by 3 days).
By the book:facepalm:

its a very good way , The manuals I have for my Crs are WELL read ,

and i know the people who write the books , ( honda anyway ) They would struggle to write a workshop manual for my enfield ,,,,)

Stephen

[dipshit]

Think about whats happening on say a whhel nut ,,,, then think about how a nut works , then relax

Ok, so if you think 50 lb-ft is ok on an axle nut that calls for 70 lb-ft - then is 40 lb-ft ok as well...??? Where is the line of it not being tight enough...???

On earlier GSX-Rs with the basically box section aluminium swingarms - you could damage them by over tightening the axle nut and you started to crush the aluminium. People using a torque wrench to factory spec would more likely avoid that damage.

A GSX-R forum I hang out on is constantly getting people who have over tightened their sump plug and actually cracked the bottom of the sump pan. The thread didn't strip first - the pan cracked! People who use a torque wrench on the sump plug don't seem to have as many problems with them. Once someone that has tried to guess by hand and over tightened - has stretched and damage the thread from then on in.

I can understand mechanics at bike shops not bothering to use torque wrenches as much on routine maintenance jobs because of the large number of different bikes they see each day. It would be impractical to keep workshop manuals for every bike in existence and/or to take the time to look torque specs up all the time.

Someone like myself working on my own bike at home can take all the time in the world to do a job.

[Owl]

Someone like myself working on my own bike at home can take all the time in the world to do a job.

Pretty much how I feel about it.

Perhaps overkill, but I even torque my oil filter:facepalm:

[Brian d marge]

Ok, so if you think 50 lb-ft is ok on an axle nut that calls for 70 lb-ft - then is 40 lb-ft ok as well...??? Where is the line of it not being tight enough...???

On earlier GSX-Rs with the basically box section aluminium swingarms - you could damage them by over tightening the axle nut and you started to crush the aluminium. People using a torque wrench to factory spec would more lightly avoid that damage.

A GSX-R forum I hang out on is constantly getting people who have over tightened their sump plug and actually cracked the bottom of the sump pan. The thread didn't strip first - the pan cracked! People who use a torque wrench on the sump plug don't seem to have as many problems with them. Once someone that has tried to guess by hand and over tightened - has stretched and damage the thread from then on in.

I can understand mechanics at bike shops not bothering to use torque wrenches as much on routine maintenance jobs because of the large number of different bikes they see each day. It would be impractical to keep workshop manuals for every bike in existence and/or to take the time to look torque specs up all the time.

Someone like myself working on my own bike at home can take all the time in the world to do a job.


To answer your questions;

box section swing arm the box section shouldnt deform at all due to tightening of the nut on the shaft if it does , something else is wrong i.e and incorrect spacer or axil adjuster and if the axil digs into the aluminium . ( i think this is what you mean) then super mechanic needs to stop with the roids,,, or spread the load.

sump bolts answered later on ,,see ( insert required )

Technical info is readily available , a decent shop should have the infomation at hand ( in England it was a phone call to Chiswick in london ) and One should brng the tools ( and info ) to the Job ( IMHO and if you look at some race mechanics you will see them do the same tools in a tray brought to the bike )

so
Tis why you pay a professional , ( ie someone who has been trained properly , me Honda factory ,,bits of paper to prove it ,,,and 20 odd years of experience and still not as good as some I have seen )

As I said , the nut should be tightened to 90 % of its proof , or until the required stretch Has been produced ,

Opening bottle of wine ........

not being faseecious here , but a nut and bolt work like a big ole wedge that just happens to be wrapped around a cylinder , the wedge stretches the cylinder , the resulting residual stresses , must be more than the loads acting upon it , or the cylinder will stretch more than the wedge made it stretch , and the nut will loosen

In worst case conditions ( dry thread into dry thread ) nearly 50% of the force required to tighten the bolt can be used in overcoming friction , ( ie your torque wrench goes click , but the bolt is loose ) or ...

you require LESS torque as the thread is well lubricated and the thread will reach its limit sooner ..( sump bolts anyone ? ) ( from memory the difference is about 60 % Less force required on a oil lubed thread to reach the same stress level)
typically its the first couple of threads that take most of the load , and tend to be the first to go..
so ...as I said the Torque wrench is a good guide ( if you need one ) to bolt/thread stretch but not the be all and end all and for gawds sake dont trust it ....

Now on saying all of the above , snug , plus 180 Is More than enough for a 10mm dia stud into and alloy block ( Bmws Course thread?? cant remember ) and would be difficult on an inch dia steel shaft probably snug and a quarter if you are lucky ( someone else can help me here )
remembering all you are doing is compressing the top few female threads so that the compression is not removed during service ,,thats all ,,,, OR making the thread yield ,ie beyond its elastic limit ....( soft LM2 threads ,,, ie butter require a careful hand )
So for fine alloy sump bolts , Depends on the amount of leverage one applies , ie the spanner used
Car spanners can to be longer than bike ones and more robust, add a small amount of force and bingo, top thread goes ..

So choose right spanner for Job, and add 20 years of feel and bingo job done, ( con-rod in a vice , old of course , then tighten and measure stretch of nut and bolt ,,,,you get the idea, others may have differing methods )

now on saying all of that!!!! , i prefer the cheap , repco scale type , and then check the calibration , ( as per other posts ) marking as per

Then add a touch of feel , just because the manual say 12 lb , it may be a reused bolt that has stretched, ( Junked ) or super mechanic has wailed on the bolt , into soft alloy threads and they have yielded ( insert required ) or a whole host of reasons that you will never get 12lb.ft or it will strip Before you reach 12 ..

If you are really worried about a bolt coming loose , clean dry thread and a dab of low strength loctite , ( love the stuff I do )

So at the end of all that , it comes down to don't blindly follow the manual , think about what you are doing and whats happening , if in doubt , stop and think ,,, thinking is free and saves a ton of money and a torque wrench is a guide only , nothing more nothing less ( a handy guide , hence I like the scale ones )

A Engineer I like is a guy called Carrol Smith

he does a range of books one called . the nuts bolts and plumbing handbook

its a good read ,, non technical

got carried away ,,,again sorry Might edit this later ,,,,,,for clarity ..

Stephen

[dipshit]

box section swing arm the box section shouldnt deform at all due to tightening of the nut on the shaft if it does , something else is wrong i.e and incorrect spacer or axil adjuster and if the axil digs into the aluminium . ( i think this is what you mean) then super mechanic needs to stop with the roids,,, or spread the load.



Take a look at earlier Suzuki swingarms... http://raresportbikesforsale.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/1986-Suzuki-RG500-Gamma-Walter-wolf.jpg

An over tightened axle nuts would slightly dent the soft alloy under the washer.




Technical info is readily available , a decent shop should have the infomation at hand ( in England it was a phone call to Chiswick in london ) and One should brng the tools ( and info ) to the Job ( IMHO and if you look at some race mechanics you will see them do the same tools in a tray brought to the bike )

I doubt your typical NZ bike shop mechanic will be assed to go find out though.



you require LESS torque as the thread is well lubricated and the thread will reach its limit sooner ..( sump bolts anyone ? )

Obviously factory spec takes that into account for recommended torque for sump bolts though. Very few people have trouble with sump bolts when they use torque wrenches.



If you are really worried about a bolt coming loose , clean dry thread and a dab of low strength loctite ,


It's not just about a bolt coming loose... it's also about the amount of force that is put through a system. Like the rear wheel for example. It is only the torque of the axle nut that is holding it in place. Loosen the axle nut and the rear wheel is free to move, yes.

Same for the pinch bolts on the fork tubes or front axle... or bolts holding the suspension linkages... or engine mount bolts. Proper torque is part of their design for those things to work properly.

[Brian d marge]

Take a look at earlier Suzuki swingarms... http://raresportbikesforsale.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/1986-Suzuki-RG500-Gamma-Walter-wolf.jpg

An over tightened axle nuts would slightly dent the soft alloy under the washer.





I doubt your typical NZ bike shop mechanic will be assed to go find out though.




Obviously factory spec takes that into account for recommended torque for sump bolts though. Very few people have trouble with sump bolts when they use torque wrenches.





It's not just about a bolt coming loose... it's also about the amount of force that is put through a system. Like the rear wheel for example. It is only the torque of the axle nut that is holding it in place. Loosen the axle nut and the rear wheel is free to move, yes.

Same for the pinch bolts on the fork tubes or front axle... or bolts holding the suspension linkages... or engine mount bolts. Proper torque is part of their design for those things to work properly.

Stop typing , stand away from the keyboard

did you not read anything I wrote

Designing bike bits is what i do for a living ,,, the new house I am living in is being paid for by ,, bike bits

Torque wrenches have their place in the big scheme of things ,,, but they must be used by a semi literate human being , with a working brain

Stephen