Using of Busway - North Shore

[Farab]

Just interested in seeing how many of you would like to use the busway (on your bikes of course). I can't see it being anymore dangerous than riding in full blown traffic.

When the busway was being built, I inquired about the use for bikes. I was then told it was being considered. The last reply I got a few months ago was that the council deemed it unsafe for bikes to use. I disagree.

This poll would be more geared towards those that actually commute during the peak hour times.

[Waxxa]

its got to better and safer than lane splitting down the length of a motorway in peak traffic...

[vifferman]

It may well be safer than lane-splitting, but I still don't think I'd use it if it were legal to do so. Buses are horrible things to have to sit behind on a bike - the fumes, spilt diesel, turbulent wake, and lack of forward visibility are all pretty sucky.

[breakaway]

I got a few months ago was that the council deemed it unsafe for bikes to use. I disagree.

Typical shortsighted bureaucrat thinking. Sharing a lane with one other enormous vehicle that's impossible to not see vs what motorists are doig now - splitting between cars that change lanes without indicating or looking.

[The Pastor]

So you want to mix the smallest vehicles, the largest vehicles , high speed and pedestrians all together aye?

[Spearfish]

So you want to mix the smallest vehicles, the largest vehicles , high speed and pedestrians all together aye?

All that's missing from your list is a video camera, Youtube account and a cartoon sound effects backing track.

[Farab]

So you want to mix the smallest vehicles, the largest vehicles , high speed and pedestrians all together aye?

As a full licence holder you should be competent and comfortable with riding on any NZ road were there could be a plethora of any type and quantity of vehicles, including pedestrians, cyclists, and animals.
I struggle to understand what is so special and super dangerous about a piece of road that only allow busses on at the moment. If anything, it should (and is IMO) much safer as 90% of "other" traffic is not allowed on this road, including pedestrians.

We regularly ride on narrow 80 - 100km/h roads that have far more hazards than compared to the busway.

Pedestrians? Wasn't aware pedestrians were allowed on the busway, except when boarding at the stations. I can't think of any reason why any of us would want to pull off the main busway just to zoom past the platforms.

Also it wouldn't be compulsory to ride on the busway, you would be free to choose to fight your way through the usual peakhour "parking lot" on the motorway. I would like to have a choice.

[The Pastor]

as a full licence holder you should be competent and comfortable with riding on any nz road were there could be a plethora of any type and quantity of vehicles, including pedestrians, cyclists, and animals.
I struggle to understand what is so special and super dangerous about a piece of road that only allow busses on at the moment. If anything, it should (and is imo) much safer as 90% of "other" traffic is not allowed on this road, including pedestrians.

We regularly ride on narrow 80 - 100km/h roads that have far more hazards than compared to the busway.

Pedestrians? Wasn't aware pedestrians were allowed on the busway, except when boarding at the stations. I can't think of any reason why any of us would want to pull off the main busway just to zoom past the platforms.

Also it wouldn't be compulsory to ride on the busway, you would be free to choose to fight your way through the usual peakhour "parking lot" on the motorway. I would like to have a choice.

you don't pull off the bus way to go to the station, they go right through it, going from an 80-100k zone to a 5k zone packed full of pedestrians, get a brain you muppet people cant even use passing lanes like they should be.

Think of it this way, why do bus drives have a fairly extensive training requirement before they are allowed to drive a bus?

You think cars have a massive blind spot? Try a bus.

What would be ok is after the akoranga/ takapuna station before the bridge - but its a short bit of road.

You can dream all you want but it will never happen, thankfully because people smarter than you are in charge.

[Farab]

you don't pull off the bus way to go to the station, they go right through it, going from an 80-100k zone to a 5k zone packed full of pedestrians, get a brain you muppet people cant even use passing lanes like they should be.

Think of it this way, why do bus drives have a fairly extensive training requirement before they are allowed to drive a bus?

You think cars have a massive blind spot? Try a bus.

What would be ok is after the akoranga/ takapuna station before the bridge - but its a short bit of road.

You can dream all you want but it will never happen, thankfully because people smarter than you are in charge.At least I mounted an argument or put forward my point of view without resorting to personal insults, no matter what I think of your opinion.

Whats so different from riding on the Dairy Flats in a 80 - 100km/h zone coming around a corner only to see a family walking next to the side of the road in front of you, or farmer Brown pulling out in front of you with his tractor, a few trucks in front of you and in the oncoming direction? If you can't handle that, then I can understand the way you feel about riding on the busway.

The bus stations work just like a railway station. There's never a reason for pedestrians to actually be on or crossing the busway (see pics).

[The Pastor]

at least i mounted an argument or put forward my point of view without resorting to personal insults, no matter what i think of your opinion.

Whats so different from riding on the dairy flats in a 80 - 100km/h zone coming around a corner only to see a family walking next to the side of the road in front of you, or farmer brown pulling out in front of you with his tractor, a few trucks in front of you and in the oncoming direction? If you can't handle that, then i can understand the way you feel about riding on the busway.

The bus stations work just like a railway station. There's never a reason for pedestrians to actually be on or crossing the busway (see pics).

sigh, im not sure why im even bothering to explain this to you, but the difference is the frequency. Dairy flat (in ur example) was 1 family and 1 bike. No bus. Shared bus terminal with bikes - stacks of people, stacks of bikes, stacks of buses.

Shared lanes on the motorway - not tooo much of an issue, shared terminals - hell no.

A buss station dose not work at all like a rail station, buses can move any which way they want, pedestrians cross the traffic line directly and in general the bus stations have more people at them (except for britomart)

personally i would love to ride on the bus-way (and i have a few times) so don't question my riding confidence, because you (as is evident by your arguments), know jack shit about anything. Your lack of intelligence is also further shown by the fact that you own, and presumably ride a hornet 900.

[Farab]

sigh, im not sure why im even bothering to explain this to you, but the difference is the frequency. Dairy flat (in ur example) was 1 family and 1 bike. No bus. Shared bus terminal with bikes - stacks of people, stacks of bikes, stacks of buses.

Shared lanes on the motorway - not tooo much of an issue, shared terminals - hell no.

A buss station dose not work at all like a rail station, buses can move any which way they want, pedestrians cross the traffic line directly and in general the bus stations have more people at them (except for britomart)

personally i would love to ride on the bus-way (and i have a few times) so don't question my riding confidence, because you (as is evident by your arguments), know jack shit about anything. Your lack of intelligence is also further shown by the fact that you own, and presumably ride a hornet 900.
We will have to agree to disagree. I enjoy a good natured, mature debate. This is not the case with you, as you have quite clearly resorted to personal insults and name calling from your first post onwards. You have not just insulted me, but quite a few Kiwibikers that ride and love Hornets. Good going.

[EJK]

If the busway gets opened to bikers, it'll turn into a drag strip in no time.

My hypothesis...

[The Pastor]

we will have to agree to disagree. I enjoy a good natured, mature debate. This is not the case with you, as you have quite clearly resorted to personal insults and name calling from your first post onwards. You have not just insulted me, but quite a few kiwibikers that ride and love hornets. Good going.

deal with it bitch

[Farab]

deal with it bitch

Mature and intelligent response.

[Hiflyer]

deal with it bitch

Firstly, LOL but you do have a point, I think It'd turn to bedlam with too many bikes trying to go around the bus and being hit, or hitting a pedestrian etc etc




If the busway gets opened to bikers, it'll turn into a drag strip in no time.

My hypothesis...

this follows on from what I was saying above, I think that's what a lot of people are thinking, there will be excessive speeds from a few people that'll get hurt and ruin it for everybody.

[Toaster]

If the busway gets opened to bikers, it'll turn into a drag strip in no time.

My hypothesis...

And the local Highway Patrol would be into it like no mans business... creating even more of a hazard. It would just turn to custard.... mmm custard!

[Swoop]

Wasn't the original concept inclusive of bikes? Or was that an additional marketing ploy to sell the concept to "the powers that be"??

[tpc]

Just interested in seeing how many of you would like to use the busway (on your bikes of course). I can't see it being anymore dangerous than riding in full blown traffic.
.

Why they should
- It's safer for bikers. Riding (or driving) is a mixture of skill and the law of averages. If you're a good rider you will avoid whatever you possibly can – but you can't do much about the drunk/drugged driver that comes around the blind bend at 100km/h taking up the whole wrong side of the road (I arrived first at such an accident, what a mess). So even if you've been riding for years, there's no guarantee that your skill is a match for someone elses stupidity. Even if you're not lane splitting, there are a good few nose to tail accidents per week and sooner or later it will be the back of your bike. On the bus lanes there is always much less traffic than on the motorway, so the chance of getting hit by some drongo goes down. Bus stations are 50km/h areas, so it's no more dangerous than passing a bus stop in the city. If anything it's safer, because pedestrians aren't allowed to cross the bus lanes (they have to use the overbridges).

- It's probably safer for car drivers too. Ever seen a car swerve because they saw a lane-splitting biker at the last moment and panicked? Or just didn't see a biker as they changed lanes, and panicked.

- It's their job to keep road users safe. “Our job is to help New Zealanders travel reliably and safely” (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/about/index.html). “It’s also our job to try to stop injuries from happening in the first place.” (http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/index.htm).

- It's in line with the various “transit” lanes, eg where bikes can use the “bus lane” down Forrest Hill road.

Why the will keep trying to prevent it
- If they open up the motorway bus lanes for bikes they will get pressured to do the same for cars with three occupants, taxis, ride on mowers etc.

- Bus driver training is as good as that mandated for bike and car licenses. ie it's rubbish. They get enough instruction to reduce damage to the company property, and a good healthy lesson in aggression so they can intimidate everyone else on the road. Ride or drive past the Victoria Park bus stop on Fanshawe St and witness the buses taking up not only the bus lane, but pulling out over the other traffic lanes as well so they don't have to slow down to move around other buses.

- It will reduce their ticket revenue. There's no room to put mobile speed cameras or Police cars on the side of the bus lane to catch those hooligan speeding bikers that cause all the problems on the road. Of course, they turn a blind eye to the fact that the buses regularly exceed the speed limit. I usually get the sweat taxi (bus) on a Friday and stand (not enough seats) near the front and keep an eye on the speedo. 90 is pretty common, and 100 is not unheard of. Fortunately they're better drivers so that's okay. Or no, they're not are they...

- It will make all those car drivers stuck on the main lanes really unhappy. There are more of them than us, which equals more votes and...


I'll be writing to the NZTA and the ACC. Writing to your local MP is pretty much a waste of time. Someone told me years ago that if you want your MP to work for you then don't re-elect them.

TPC

[Jonno.]

If one motorcycle brakes down -> they're fucked.
If one motorcycle wants to go 60 -> they're fucked.

Now think of the frequency of that possibly occuring.

[R-Soul]

If one motorcycle brakes down -> they're fucked.
If one motorcycle wants to go 60 -> they're fucked.

Now think of the frequency of that possibly occuring.
Absolutely nothing - unless they have 50cc moped on the motorway- and arent they not allowed on motorways anyway?

[R-Soul]

sigh, im not sure why im even bothering to explain this to you, but the difference is the frequency. Dairy flat (in ur example) was 1 family and 1 bike. No bus. Shared bus terminal with bikes - stacks of people, stacks of bikes, stacks of buses.

A buss station dose not work at all like a rail station, buses can move any which way they want, pedestrians cross the traffic line directly and in general the bus stations have more people at them (except for britomart)




Waht you are describing is Queen street on a normal day, where bikes eem to be "skilled" enough to cope - how are the bus stations any different?

And "specialised training"??? - to ride through a bus station? Some of those bus drivers are not even capable of absorbing anything more than the absolute basics!! You make them sound like highly trained ninja turtles, but lets be real here...are you an OSH inspector, or just gullible?

[Jonno.]

Absolutely nothing - unless they have 50cc moped on the motorway- and arent they not allowed on motorways anyway?

Are you saying that a motorcycle would never brake down on the bus way? (Which has no where to move out of the way.)
Or are you saying that no one (eg a learner) would go 60 or even 70 when buses want to go 90?

The bus way isn't a motorway...

[R-Soul]

Wasn't the original concept inclusive of bikes? Or was that an additional marketing ploy to sell the concept to "the powers that be"??

its ridiculous that on one hand they up the ACC levies, but on the other hand they flat out refuse to make a change to the laws that woudl OBVIOUSLY have an positive impact on safety for bikers.

I would rather be patient in a bus lane behind a bus travelling at an average 70km/hr in rush hour traffic, than filtering through a mad rush of cars at 40km/hr.

And there are not that many pedestrians ON THE ROAD at the bus stations- as they have designated overhead bridges. It would not be any different from going past a normal bus station in abuilt up area.

I have personally sent an email to LTNZ asking them to change the law, and have been given the same answers - "specialised training", pedestrians at bus stations, etc. But realistically its beaurocratic bullshit, and they dont want their time tables interfered with (even though they probably wont be affected). And it opens up a can of worms about other users.

Its easier to just say "no" than to use their grey matter.

[The Pastor]

Waht you are describing is Queen street on a normal day, where bikes eem to be "skilled" enough to cope - how are the bus stations any different?

And "specialised training"??? - to ride through a bus station? Some of those bus drivers are not even capable of absorbing anything more than the absolute basics!! You make them sound like highly trained ninja turtles, but lets be real here...are you an OSH inspector, or just gullible?

queen street is 30km/hr. busway is 80.

[R6_kid]

The busway was designed for commercial, scheduled bus services and nothing else.

If they let motorbikes/scooters on, then how long before cyclists/peds/carpools etc want use of it too? Are you going to say no to them? On what grounds?

I personally think it's stupid that they haven't included a cycle/walking lane along the length of the new SH18 from Albany to Westgate, and also along the busway from Albany to Takapuna/Harbour Bridge.

[R-Soul]

queen street is 30km/hr. busway is 80.

Any busy street in town is 50km/hr. Busway in station is 50 km/hr. No difference.

[R-Soul]

Are you saying that a motorcycle would never brake down on the bus way? (Which has no where to move out of the way.)
Or are you saying that no one (eg a learner) would go 60 or even 70 when buses want to go 90?

The bus way isn't a motorway...

There is still a shoulder on the road for busses to go past. And if thesame bike broke down on the motroway right now, where do you think it goes? Onto the same shoulder...

Realistically , what is the probability of a bus being stuck behind a learner doing less than 90? Very little. And the bus would pull off anyway for stops. I ride that route every morning and I see even learners filtering past the bus over the bridge. Besides even if a bus does get stuck behind a moped doing 20km/hr slower (unlikely), it would delay it for a couple of seconds between bus stops - and that wont happen often.

Exactly, the bus is not a motorway- its even slower (and therefore safer). But IMO its not unfair to assume that those vehicles not entitled to ride a high speed motorway should also not be entitled to ride a similar speed busway.

[R-Soul]

The busway was designed for commercial, scheduled bus services and nothing else.

Wrong- it was designed to ease congestion by high speed travel of passenger efficent vehicles. Tomatoes/tomatoes. The wood is not being seen for all the trees...


If they let motorbikes/scooters on, then how long before cyclists/peds/carpools etc want use of it too? Are you going to say no to them? On what grounds?

Frankly, if they are also capable of high speed travel and are using a vehicle effectively, there is no reason why not to. Bicycles would be a no-no because of their speed, as it would completely defeat the objective of high speed travel.
Its just those that insist on dragging a steel cage and four empty armchairs around with them that should not use them.



I personally think it's stupid that they haven't included a cycle/walking lane along the length of the new SH18 from Albany to Westgate, and also along the busway from Albany to Takapuna/Harbour Bridge.

I agree- or a bicycle/ jogging lane across the bridge - that would not even have to be as heavily reionforced as a normal car lane, as there would be much less weight on it. i would even consoder bicycling insteas of riding as a commuter tool if they did. That way I get some excercise.
Bah you can never trust a politician to make a logical decision.

[R6_kid]

Wrong- it was designed to ease congestion by high speed travel of passenger efficent vehicles. Tomatoes/tomatoes. The wood is not being seen for all the trees...

Design/intention. I can't see them opening it up for motobikes/carpool.

If you're gonna argue that it's safer for you because you won't have to lane split then unfortunately the simple and 99.9% correct answer is that you shouldn't be lane splitting in the first place so it's not their problem.

[R-Soul]

Design/intention. I can't see them opening it up for motobikes/carpool.

If you're gonna argue that it's safer for you because you won't have to lane split then unfortunately the simple and 99.9% correct answer is that you shouldn't be lane splitting in the first place so it's not their problem.

Its safer for me without me lane splitting as well.