Oil types?

[magicmonkey]

I'm about to do an oil change and I've found that I've got nearly enough mineral oil and nearly enough synthetic oil but not enough of one or the other to do the job. Can I just mix them or should I be buying a load more oil and getting it all the same?

Also, WTF is with motorcycle oil? how is it different to normal oil? The stuff all lubricates engines so I can't see that there would be any real difference between the 2 but I'm wondering if I might be barking up the wrong tree with that one ...

[Blackbird]

The short answer is no, don't mix oils or you ruin their individual characteristics and run the risk of shortening the life of your motor at the same time. If you've done reasonably high k's (say 50,000 km+ or less on a high-revving motor), using a fully synthetic oil for the first time at that distance; you run the risk of oil seal leaks as synthetic is a very efficient dirt scavenger and can take carbon and other residues off seal faces causing leaks (it did on my wife's first MX5).

One of the major differences with motorcycle oils is that they tend to avoid certain components of the additive package which car oils have. This is because most bikes have wet clutches and car additives can make them slip. Also, some bike oils have an additive to reduce the effects of oil shear (early breakdown of the oil) due to higher revs than cars. Hope that answers your questions anyway.

[magicmonkey]

The short answer is no, don't mix oils or you ruin their individual characteristics and run the risk of shortening the life of your motor at the same time. If you've done reasonably high k's (say 50,000 km+ or less on a high-revving motor), using a fully synthetic oil for the first time at that distance; you run the risk of oil seal leaks as synthetic is a very efficient dirt scavenger and can take carbon and other residues off seal faces causing leaks (it did on my wife's first MX5).

One of the major differences with motorcycle oils is that they tend to avoid certain components of the additive package which car oils have. This is because most bikes have wet clutches and car additives can make them slip. Also, some bike oils have an additive to reduce the effects of oil shear (early breakdown of the oil) due to higher revs than cars. Hope that answers your questions anyway.

:D nice one, exactly the information I was after, thanks for that :D:D

[Blackbird]

No worries. If it's for your GN250, the something like Motul 5100 semi-synthetic is as far as you need to go. Castrol Power 1 GPS semi-synthetic is cheaper because they sell it at Repco!

[magicmonkey]

No worries. If it's for your GN250, the something like Motul 5100 semi-synthetic is as far as you need to go. Castrol Power 1 GPS semi-synthetic is cheaper because they sell it at Repco!

Nah, it's for the ZXR, the GN had a change about 1000 k's ago so there's plenty left on that one.

I was edging towards using the synthetic oil in the the ZXR as I'd heard it's better but just didn't know how it's better, for now it sounds like I'd best stick to mineral though :)

[Blackbird]

Nah, it's for the ZXR, the GN had a change about 1000 k's ago so there's plenty left on that one.

I was edging towards using the synthetic oil in the the ZXR as I'd heard it's better but just didn't know how it's better, for now it sounds like I'd best stick to mineral though :)

As long as you drain your mineral oil pretty well first, it would be quite safe to go to semi-synthetic as semi-synthetic is a mix of base stocks. It will also provide better protection than straight mineral on a higher revving motor like the ZXR. I was involved with early trials of Mobil 1 on some of the vehicle fleet which our company owned. Compared with the multigrade which we previously used, the metal wear debris in the oil at oil change time was about 3 times less with synthetic than the multigrade (measured by spectroscopy). There's lots of factors which affect wear rates and suitability, but it's an indicator that you get what you pay for.

[p.dath]

I'm about to do an oil change and I've found that I've got nearly enough mineral oil and nearly enough synthetic oil but not enough of one or the other to do the job. Can I just mix them or should I be buying a load more oil and getting it all the same?

Also, WTF is with motorcycle oil? how is it different to normal oil? The stuff all lubricates engines so I can't see that there would be any real difference between the 2 but I'm wondering if I might be barking up the wrong tree with that one ...

This is outside of my area of knowledge, but I was told you can mix either mineral or synthetic with semi-synthetic, but don't mix mineral with fully synthetic.

[magicmonkey]

ok, here's another one, the manual says I should be using se, sf or sg grades with a viscosity of 10/40 - 10/50 - 20/40 - 20/50. Seeing as I'm going to buy a new bottle of oil anyway, which one of those should I choose? I understand the whole viscosity thing but the grades are something I'm completely in the dark about (I also don't know how to actually choose a viscosity although I know what the numbers mean)

[Blackbird]

I'm presuming that your ZXR manual is a few years old now as most good oils are now SJ rated. If you go for the Castrol Power 1, it's SJ 10W 40 and I think Motul 5100 is too from memory. Absolutely fine for your bike so don't sweat it!

SE, SF and SG API categories have been surpassed and can effectively be considered obsolete. SJ oils have a lower phosphorus content than SH, principally to further reduce contamination of catalytic converters from carry-over. I'd guess that virtually any major brand of automotive oil is probably SJ rated by now if they want to keep market share.

[magicmonkey]

yeah, the manual is ancient, barely readable in many places too! Did a quick google and managed to uncover that they were obsolete but not what replaced them, seems you're even better than google mate, nice one :)

[vifferman]

One of the major differences with motorcycle oils is that they tend to avoid certain components of the additive package which car oils have. This is because most bikes have wet clutches and car additives can make them slip. Also, some bike oils have an additive to reduce the effects of oil shear (early breakdown of the oil) due to higher revs than cars. Hope that answers your questions anyway.
There was a guy on the old VFR forum who was an oil engineer, and who did extensive work on oil testing. His studies showed that the Mobil synthetic for cars was perfectly fine for use in bikes, and in fact more betterer, as it contained a better additive package, and was usually able to be bought cheaper! He found no evidence whatsoever of it causing clutch slippage, contrary to what has long been espoused on Teh Interdweeb.
Other than that, he opined that the best value oil for bikes was a reasonable quality diesel oil, as it was usually cheap (especially in bulk packs) and had exceptional longevity and detergent properties, due to the harsh demands of diesel engines.

[Blackbird]

There was a guy on the old VFR forum who was an oil engineer, and who did extensive work on oil testing. His studies showed that the Mobil synthetic for cars was perfectly fine for use in bikes, and in fact more betterer, as it contained a better additive package, and was usually able to be bought cheaper! He found no evidence whatsoever of it causing clutch slippage, contrary to what has long been espoused on Teh Interdweeb.
Other than that, he opined that the best value oil for bikes was a reasonable quality diesel oil, as it was usually cheap (especially in bulk packs) and had exceptional longevity and detergent properties, due to the harsh demands of diesel engines.

'ello Ian - long time no hear!

Tribology was part of my responsibility before I became a layabout! I dealt directly with the Mobil engineers as they were our preferred supplier for industrial and automotive lubricants. It was actually their people who made the comment about not using Mobil 1 car oil in wet clutch applications (I used it in my Beemer K100 because it was a dry clutch) and their Mobil 1 4T Racing for bikes is the same as Mobil 1 (car) but with one element of the additive package removed so I guess they had some basis in theory for the difference, even if not in practice. Potential litigation is a wonderful incentive for a conservative approach:yes:

For slower-revving engines, diesel oil may be ok but for higher revving engines (bikes in particular), high rotation speeds effectively increases shear at the molecular level, decreasing viscosity and wearing the oil out. Again, that's from a theoretical perspective but for road use at least, the old engineer may be right.

So you're using reasonable quality diesel oil in your Vifferrari? :whistle::whistle:

[porky]

Blackbird, dont want to high jack this thread but you seem to be the man on lube. VTX 1800 book gives 80 SAE hypoid for the rear drive. Emptied out today and its red ?? What brands have a red gear oil. I run ATF in 2 stroke boxs,which is red. Is it possible its ATF?? Your thoughts please. (Last oils were done under warranty service from dealer>)

[Blackbird]

Blackbird, dont want to high jack this thread but you seem to be the man on lube. VTX 1800 book gives 80 SAE hypoid for the rear drive. Emptied out today and its red ?? What brands have a red gear oil. I run ATF in 2 stroke boxs,which is red. Is it possible its ATF?? Your thoughts please. (Last oils were done under warranty service from dealer>)

Sorry to be a disappointment - I know how lubricants work, not brands and their dyes :no:

[porky]

No disappointment at all. Will cut past the dealer today and see if i can pull the records.

[Quasievil]

There was a guy on the old VFR forum who was an oil engineer, and who did extensive work on oil testing. His studies showed that the Mobil synthetic for cars was perfectly fine for use in bikes, and in fact more betterer, as it contained a better additive package, and was usually able to be bought cheaper! He found no evidence whatsoever of it causing clutch slippage, contrary to what has long been espoused on Teh Interdweeb.
Other than that, he opined that the best value oil for bikes was a reasonable quality diesel oil, as it was usually cheap (especially in bulk packs) and had exceptional longevity and detergent properties, due to the harsh demands of diesel engines.

Hello, Mr Mobil here (Im the BDM for Mobil Taupo to Auckland for Mobil) Im not an engineer but have access to them and I have been extensively trained by Mobil etc.

The official word is this, for bikes use bike oil (not car oil) for cars use Car oil not bike oil and so on............easy eh !
Mobil certainly wont endorse any car oil in bike scenario, because some engineer some where decided it was ok.

For your bike Magicmonkey I would have thought (from our range) a Mobil Extra 4T 10w-40 a semi synthetic.

But there are plenty of options out there.

If I can explain the differences between Mineral and sythetic oils for you in a easy easy way, think of it like this

The oil they use to make your engine oil (the raw oil) is called Basestock, Basestocks have different groups, group 1 to group 5, each group has different levels of quality the higher grades are used for synthetics and the lower grades are used for mineral based oil as well as a host of other things.
These are extracted in a refinery tower , lower basestock grades are taken from the lower/mid part and higher basestock grades from the top, the top tower basestocks are generally gas.

So know you understand this

the higher base stocks are gas and the PAO (polyalpholefin) is used to make synthetic oil, the advantage of this PAO as a basestock is this.........All the molecules are exactly the same size, please think of a row of marbles in a line all the same size)

The lower Basestock grades disadvantage is this.........all the molecules a different sizes (think of a beach ball, a volley ball, a rugby ball, and a few umbrellas)

now imagine this

Between the two surfaces of your engine, i.e. the piston and the cylinder, the temperature between these surfaces is very very hot (naturally) so to stop them fusing together and melting (and a heap of other things) we cool the engine with coolants etc but most importantly OIL

now Imagine this

To keep the two surfaces oiled so they stay lubricated and run over each of there surfaces in the most efficient way, which of the two oils will do it better ?????

1. A row of marbles of the same size?
2. Abeach ball, a volley ball, a rugby ball, and a few umbrellas

Clearly the answer is number one !!! (Mobil 1 read later)

Ok so with this smooth efficent running of your engine what are the advantages?

Higher Viscosity index.........reduces engine wear at temp extremes
Low temp performance...... Oil gets to where its needed faster
Lower volitilty .................... Reduced oil consumption
Increased Oxidative stability...... slows down the rate of oil thickening

so these give you avantages like, less Friction.......less friction means less energy........means less gas used......higher efficency......longer engine life (the list goes on and on but you get the point)

So why Mobil 1, it is the worlds leader in Synthetic technology.........we can legally say that as its true!!

Since the Castrol vs Mobil case in the states where Castrol decided to market Mineral oil as Synthetic (they won WTF) many companies now offer a synthetic option which is highly refined beach balls rugby balls and umbrellas, they are legally allowed to do this.

Mobil have stuck to the PAO for its base stock (I will note however some Mobil synthetics have a small group III content to balance the additive packages)

Anyway I hope that helps you understand oil a bit better.

[CookMySock]

It's very important to match the recommended SAE spec. That is, you should not be using a 15W40 oil where a 10W30 is required in high-speed motorcycle engines, or they will wedge the thicker oil up and spin a bearing inside a housing.

All modern oils should exceed the required API spec by a wide margin, unless it's a very modern fuel-injected engine, or a very heavily loaded one.

You should be able to mix oils from different manufacturers, provided the SAE spec is similar. You can quite safely add a 300ml top-up of 5W30 to a 10W30 fill, but you should never add any quantity of a 20W50 oil to a motorcycle crankcase, for any reason.

Thin oils for high-revving engines is the rule, unless the engine has been properly clearanced to suit the thicker oil. Ie, better engine rebuilders will ask you what engine oil you will be running, and build the engine to suit.

Steve

[Flip]

There is fa difference between a 15W40 and a 10W30. The lower number (in say 15W40) describes the viscosity of the oil at 40 deg C as being the same as a straight 15 weight oil and the higher number at describes the viscosity at 100 deg C as a 40 weight oil. The viscosity index (VI) additive that they use to achieve this is like gorilla snot is not particularly share stable and is busted up in MC gearboxes, that’s the major (but not the only reason) bike oil thin quickly with age.

The serviceability rating or the SF, SG, SH etc is the quality of the oil to survive punishment and still protect your motor and it’s tested in real motors so it’s not theoretical. The higher the 2nd letter the better the oil. There is a bit more to it than this because as motor tek has improved the motors require special or new additive like detergent's in the 50's and low potassium to protect the modern cats nowdays, as long as the 2nd letter is the same or higher its fine to put in a better quality oil than the motor maker recommends.

The thing to understand is that all motor oils are basically compatible with each other, it's best not to mix them because you will thin out some of the additives and some of the bits they add in synthetic oils just don’t work well in dino feed stocks and vice versa. Woffel woffel woffel but in an emergency its fine to mix them, not quite the right oil is much better than no oil.

Basically:
• Don't put heavy gear box oils in your motor.
• Mixed fleet lubes ie light diesel oils are fine for bikes.
• You usually get what you pay for.
• A lower quality oil that is being regally changed is better than a super expensive oil that is worn out and stuffed.

Finally all motor oils are tested in standard industry car motors not bike motors.

[Corse1]

Just changed oil in mine. 2 litres of VSX4 15W 50 fully synthetic and 1.5 litres of SX4 15W 50 synthetic fortified. Same brand and same weight/viscosity. I'm not going to sweat it. change every 3-4k kilometers

[AllanB]

It's very important to match the recommended SAE spec. That is, you should not be using a 15W40 oil where a 10W30 is required in high-speed motorcycle engines, or they will wedge the thicker oil up and spin a bearing inside a housing. Steve


You'll like this one then Steve ......... Honda Hornet 900 (or 919 in the USA) from new in 02 the factory book says 10w 40. In the USA this changed in 06 or 07 to 10w30 out of the blue. The reason is some legal shit law about being energy conserving for fuel or something, so Honda changed the oil weight!

And YES you may go from mineral to semi-synth or full or full to semi or any combo. Just drain the old stuff well and change the filter. There is heaps of bullshit on the net about oil. I wasted hours of my life reading most of it! Lots of the big oil makers have sites with FAQ sections dealing with subjects like this.

As a side note some bikes react differently to different brands of oil. mine is one of them. The Hornet has a shall we say average feeling gear box. This has been greatly improved by using Motul 5100 (I was running Castrol semi-synth - never again).

[Blackbird]

As a side note some bikes react differently to different brands of oil. mine is one of them. The Hornet has a shall we say average feeling gear box. This has been greatly improved by using Motul 5100 (I was running Castrol semi-synth - never again).

Now that's interesting Allan - had EXACTLY the same experience with my Blackbird and stuck with Motul after that. Just goes to show that there is some variation in oil characteristics between brands. I suspect that the Hornet and 'bird had pretty much the same design of gearbox.

[avgas]

Pick an oil to suit the characteristics of the bike. And always flush with a good diesel oil first (10 km run in this oil is the best way to flush it).
I found for big singles, Visco 5000 (5w50) was AWESOME, changed the bike completely to have a bit more pick-up, but the torque was affected.
I would recommend the 10w40 for a 4 cylinder as its a nice middle of the road, with a bit of performance when it gets warm. 15w40 if its more a sports tourer. 15w50 seems to suit the big off roaders. BMW's love the stuff.

Oh avoid stuff that has additives in it too.

[steelestring]

Now that's interesting Allan - had EXACTLY the same experience with my Blackbird and stuck with Motul after that. Just goes to show that there is some variation in oil characteristics between brands. I suspect that the Hornet and 'bird had pretty much the same design of gearbox.

Yip.. was a mobil freak forever (mobil 1 for the 4g63t also) and by the off chance I couldnt get it from the bike shop I was @ and bingo!!!!
Motul 5100 gears on the zxr and the zx6 are smooth as silk... I can definitely tell when my oil is getting slightly poked by the gear changes.
I have just mixed 2 motul 5100 together and was wondering about useing them.... both are about the same 10-40 and 15-50 same additives ect also.
What do ya reckon?
I used the fully synthetic motul flash stuff in the little zxr and it screamed with pleasure!! If only I could afford that stuff every oil change :(
But I have not bought myself round to use the mix yet....

[CookMySock]

2 litres of VSX4 15W 50 fully synthetic and 1.5 litres of SX4 15W 50 synthetic fortified. Same brand and same weight/viscosityErk, I wouldn't be doing that. I think that will pinch something. Will you tell us if it does, or will you keep it quiet? I don't think thick oils like that should be used in bike engines.


Honda Hornet 900 (or 919 in the USA) from new in 02 the factory book says 10w 40. In the USA this changed in 06 or 07 to 10w30 out of the blue. The reason is some legal shit law about being energy conserving for fuel or something, so Honda changed the oil weight!Mechanically, that should be fine. Going to a thinner oil doesn't hurt anything - maybe you might loose a little oil pressure at idle on an older engine. Going to a thicker oil is where the harm can be done. Rings emphatically do not like thick oil - they gunk up and stick in their grooves, and a real thick oil will pinch a bearing or tuck a ring if you rev it cold.


As a side note some bikes react differently to different brands of oil. mine is one of them. The Hornet has a shall we say average feeling gear box. This has been greatly improved by using Motul 5100 (I was running Castrol semi-synth - never again).I had exactly the same experience. I took my hyo 650 from castrol gps up to castrol synthetic, and the whole bike felt completely different. Engine vibration was way way down (dissapointingly so - its a vtwin) and the gearbox became soooper smooth, except for now it decided to have false neutrals. Bugger!! :angry: So I went back to GPS.

Steve

[Quasievil]

Oh avoid stuff that has additives in it too.



So what youre saying is Antiwear agents anti foamers etc are no good ?
Tha would surprise alot of people, what do you base this on exactly?

[CookMySock]

So what youre saying is Antiwear agents anti foamers etc are no good ?
Tha would surprise alot of people, what do you base this on exactly?Most likely what he meant was, "avoid engine oils with inadequate base stocks, and excessive additive packages", like mobile one for example.

:niceone:

Steve

[Quasievil]

Most likely what he meant was, "avoid engine oils with inadequate base stocks, and excessive additive packages", like mobile one for example.

:niceone:

Steve

Is Mobile one a cellphone company..............Idiot

What is not recommended is modifying any oil with products like Wynns and STP

[CookMySock]

Is Mobile one a cellphone company..............Idiot

What is not recommended is modifying any oil with products like Wynns and STPI'm just pulling your chain, you dolt.

I agree not to unduly fortify oils.

Steve

[Woodman]

It's very important to match the recommended SAE spec. That is, you should not be using a 15W40 oil where a 10W30 is required in high-speed motorcycle engines, or they will wedge the thicker oil up and spin a bearing inside a housing.

All modern oils should exceed the required API spec by a wide margin, unless it's a very modern fuel-injected engine, or a very heavily loaded one.

You should be able to mix oils from different manufacturers, provided the SAE spec is similar. You can quite safely add a 300ml top-up of 5W30 to a 10W30 fill, but you should never add any quantity of a 20W50 oil to a motorcycle crankcase, for any reason.

Thin oils for high-revving engines is the rule, unless the engine has been properly clearanced to suit the thicker oil. Ie, better engine rebuilders will ask you what engine oil you will be running, and build the engine to suit.

Steve

Disagree, if you are running your engine at high revs a lot then its a good idea to up the running viscosity to a 40 or 50. The thing to look out for is the s rating, most car oils now are up to sm rating.
do you really think that a thicker oil will pinch something? has this happened to someone you know?

[CookMySock]

do you really think that a thicker oil will pinch something? has this happened to someone you know?Thicker oil will push a larger oil wedge in front of it at high rpm, and put a lot of rotational force on the outer bearing shell. Eventually you will spin the outer in the housing, destroying it.

Anyway, that is my understanding of it. Explain why this is wrong?

Steve

[Drogen Omen]

Quasievil:

Hello, Mr Mobil here (Im the BDM for Mobil Taupo to Auckland for Mobil) Im not an engineer but have access to them and I have been extensively trained by Mobil etc.

The official word is this, for bikes use bike oil (not car oil) for cars use Car oil not bike oil and so on............easy eh !
Mobil certainly wont endorse any car oil in bike scenario, because some engineer some where decided it was ok.

For your bike Magicmonkey I would have thought (from our range) a Mobil Extra 4T 10w-40 a semi synthetic.

Hi Quasievil, what would you reccomend for a 2007 Buell XB12SS? i got the bike second hand and the guy didnt have the manual.

some one told me that Castrol Magnatec is really good in bikes...

i have no idea... i usualy just take my bike in to get serviced but cant afford it this time... so gona give it an oil change my self...

can any one sugest a good oil and filter combo...? can i just buy them from Repco or Super Cheap?

[AllanB]

Plenty of boys running 15/50 in their Hornets over on the 919 USA site. Heaps use the Shell full synthetic (called Rotella there) and they appear to love their Amsol oils. Mind you they also stick in anything that is on special at Wallmark!
I personally stick with the weight Honda says.

Triumph exclusively recommend Mobil full synthetic motorcycle oil in their bikes. Must be good shit. Should be for the price .......

I'm off Castrol after years of use in various bikes. I am wondering just how much synthetic is actually in their semi-synthetic, is it like 'fruit juice' and only needs to be 5%.

[Quasievil]

Hi Quasievil, what would you reccomend for a 2007 Buell XB12SS? i got the bike second hand and the guy didnt have the manual.

some one told me that Castrol Magnatec is really good in bikes...

i have no idea... i usualy just take my bike in to get serviced but cant afford it this time... so gona give it an oil change my self...

can any one sugest a good oil and filter combo...? can i just buy them from Repco or Super Cheap?

Hi From a Mobil view point Mobil 1 V twin 20W-50, but in the first instance consult your dealer manual however this should be within the recommendation.

Fully synthetic. Meets API SJ/CF & JASO MA

[Quasievil]

Triumph exclusively recommend Mobil full synthetic motorcycle oil in their bikes. Must be good shit. Should be for the price .......



Really, its not very expensive when rated against other brands, my KTM strongly recommends a Motorex oil (who am I to argue) so I buy it at around $150 isssh

I can get Mobil 1 racing 4T for half that (without staff discount)

[Corse1]

Erk, I wouldn't be doing that. I think that will pinch something. Will you tell us if it does, or will you keep it quiet? I don't think thick oils like that should be used in bike engines.

Steve

Don't believe a word of what you have said Steve. From my Triumph manual " Triumph high performance fuel injected engines are designed to use 10W/40 or 15W/50 semi or fully synthetic motorcycle engine oil"

And from my Ducati manual it does say 10W/40 but also you you can use any oils in the table if you run in the temperatures for that oil. The only difference in temperature range between the two is that 15W/50 goes down to -12 degrees C and 15W/50 only goes down to -8 degrees. The only reason I wouldn't use 15W/50 is if I rode in temperatures colder than -8 degrees C.

The last 10000 kilometers of running in the Ducati has been Motul and shell both 15W/50. Bike runs sweet. Maybe if i was running a rocket racer that rev'd to 15000 rpm I would co9sider the 10W/40.

The receipts for oil changes from the dealer for the Triumph have 15W/50 as the oil used.

:yes:

[AllanB]

Really, its not very expensive when rated against other brands, my KTM strongly recommends a Motorex oil (who am I to argue) so I buy it at around $150 isssh

I can get Mobil 1 racing 4T for half that (without staff discount)

$99 for 4l of that fancy pants full synth Mobil motorcycle oil in CHCH .......

Which is actually OK for a full as most others I've looked at were around $120!

[Coldrider]

I got a 4ltr pack of motul 3100 gold 4T worth $50, may be only good for the lawnmower at that price ?

[CookMySock]

Don't believe a word of what you have said Steve.Well, thats the magic of the Internet innit! You can read everyones varied opinions and simply wander off and do as you choose.

Aint it grand! :niceone:



Maybe if i was running a rocket racer that rev'd to 15000 rpm I would co9sider the 10W/40.I think if you read back, you will see reference to high-revving motorcycle engines.

Steve

[Corse1]

Well, thats the magic of the Internet innit! You can read everyones varied opinions and simply wander off and do as you choose.

Aint it grand! :niceone:

Steve
Really I am just trying to get the number of posts up so I am no longer an "L" plate rider :shifty: Ive been a member for long enough :dodge:

Oil is a dangerous topic at the best of times......and I do respect everyones opinion :yes:

[Quasievil]

$99 for 4l of that fancy pants full synth Mobil motorcycle oil in CHCH .......

Which is actually OK for a full as most others I've looked at were around $120!


Could be cheaper if you know the right people eh lol

[Chooky]

O I love oil threads.... Some motorbike sites ban any discussion on oils...

But anyway, while I've got you all here....... Can anyone tell me what the difference is between outboard gear oil and ordinary gear oil... apart from the price that is..

[Drogen Omen]

found this site today...

http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/castr_au/default.asp?categoryId=3000

choose Motorcycles from the dropdown menu and then select your bike brand and model.

for Oil Additives i found this site
http://www.powerupusa.net/index.htm
there is a NZ site for powerup but it is down at the mo...
http://www.powerupnz.co.nz

has anyone heard of Powerup oil additives???

Powerup has no relation to Motorup... Motorup aint that good for cars so not good for bikes, Motorup got taken to court for misleading consumers. Google it...

[Quasievil]

found this site today...

http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/castr_au/default.asp?categoryId=3000

choose Motorcycles from the dropdown menu and then select your bike brand and model.

for Oil Additives i found this site
http://www.powerupusa.net/index.htm
there is a NZ site for powerup but it is down at the mo...
http://www.powerupnz.co.nz

has anyone heard of Powerup oil additives???

Powerup has no relation to Motorup... Motorup aint that good for cars so not good for bikes, Motorup got taken to court for misleading consumers. Google it...


Dont go putting any oil modification products into a oil........ever !!

[CookMySock]

O I love oil threads.... Some motorbike sites ban any discussion on oils...Hardly surprising.


But anyway, while I've got you all here....... Can anyone tell me what the difference is between outboard gear oil and ordinary gear oil... apart from the price that is..Outboard leg oils are designed to handle water intrusion without going bad.

Steve

[AllanB]

Dont go putting any oil modification products into a oil........ever !!

110% agree with this. Just buy a good quality oil.

Next change I'll give the Quasi a call for some fancy mobil stuff I think.

[Drogen Omen]

everyone keeps telling me that but some oil forums also bag bike oil as being bad also... so what is the deal with NO! to additives in bikes...

like Harley Davidson Oil 20w50. i got this for my Buell. bike shop recommended it.

[Quasievil]

110% agree with this. Just buy a good quality oil.

Next change I'll give the Quasi a call for some fancy mobil stuff I think.

No Sweat, will chuck it on my staff account for ya

[Owl]

Dont go putting any oil modification products into a oil........ever !!

Totally agree! After putting in X-1R, Motor-Up, Dura Lube, Slick 50 and STP, there isn't a lot of room left for any oil:no:

[Quasievil]

everyone keeps telling me that but some oil forums also bag bike oil as being bad also... so what is the deal with NO! to additives in bikes...

like Harley Davidson Oil 20w50. i got this for my Buell. bike shop recommended it.

Buy the oil, use it but dont follow it up with some other oil enhancement product, as soon as you do that you basically fucked the engineering gone into the oil in the first place, for us at MOBIL I failry positive that we know what we are doing in the product development without the need for a aftermarket additive to be used.
Once you do it wont be a mobil oil anymore thats for sure (or a castrol or Motul) its your very own special blend made by you and Im kinda certain you aint a oil engineer ??

[Drogen Omen]

ok so i should just get Castrol Active 4T 20w50 for my Buell and i should not add any extra oil additives.

have you guys ever seen Amsoil 20w50 or Royal Purple MC 20w50 on sale here in New Zealand?

Royal Purple Motorcycle oil is supposed to be one of the best oils for motobikes... but i have never seen it in NZ...

[Quasievil]

No you should get Mobil V twin for your Buell lol

Mate ALL OIL has a balance and engineered oil package in it, the MOMENT you add a aftermarket one you have fucked the engineering of the oil into a brand designed by you only

DO NOT ADD A ADDITIVE EVER

dont do it bro EVER

[AllanB]

have you guys ever seen Amsoil 20w50 ...

Google is your friend


AMSOIL NZ
1 Binsted Rd, New Lynn North, Auckland
(09) 827-8442

Phone for a agent.

PM Quasi too for a Mobil price - both are top rated full synthetic oils.

With the Buell, check the Buell forums too to see what people are running and rate highly, but as per most oil threads it will be a bitch-fight!

My theory is if you are using a dedicated Motorcycle oil of the right grade you will not have a mechanical issue. You may end up with a preference to a brand though as I've discovered they do not all preform equally in a given engine (gear shifting in my case).

[Drogen Omen]

true... sweet as thanks for the info Quasievil, AlanB...

i have checked the Buell websites today and they said to use Royal Purple MC 20w50 but if i cant get that in New Zealand that i should use Mobil1 or Mobil V Twin full syn 20W50 or Amsoil 20w50 ...

[Teflon]

http://www.shellusserver.com/qa/answerresult.php?rowid=169

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/HPR%20DIESEL%2015%20MAR%202010.pdf

I was using Shell Rimula in the VTR for years, still was running well at 127,000. Penrite diesel in the TLR. Nulon diesel in the 12.

[p.dath]

http://www.shellusserver.com/qa/answerresult.php?rowid=169

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/HPR%20DIESEL%2015%20MAR%202010.pdf

I was using Shell Rimula in the VTR for years, still was running well at 127,000. Penrite diesel in the TLR. Nulon diesel in the 12.

Do you these diesel oils because they are cheaper than specialist motorcycle oils?

[dipshit]

Do you these diesel oils because they are cheaper than specialist motorcycle oils?

Some diesel oils are very good for bikes.

Important things for a bike oil...

* * *

Good base stock to resist shear as having the gearbox and engine use the same oil places a lot more demand on it than a typical car oil.

No "friction modified" oil that could cause clutch slippage.

Good acid regulators and rust inhibitors as a bike may only get sporadic use with long periods of not being used.

* * *

Some good quality car and diesel oils will meet those needs easily. Some bike specific oils are not that great and not much better than some cheap car oils.

Better to buy a quality oil, be it a diesel, car, or bike oil rather than some very average motorcycle specific oils.

Have a read of this... http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Consumables.html

[slofox]

Good acid regulators and rust inhibitors as a bike may only get sporadic use with long periods of not being used.





I once totally fucked the bearings in an engine by NOT using such an one...

[Quasievil]

Some diesel oils are very good for bikes.



Are they?
which Oil company recommends it ?
And how are you qualified to propose this is a fact ?

[dipshit]

Are they?
which Oil company recommends it ?
And how are you qualified to propose this is a fact ?

Dozens and dozens of very good reports with riders using Rotella in here...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=49&page=1

Scroll through the pages and read the ones about Rotella.

So what specifically do you think is bad about using that oil..???

[Flip]

Are they?
which Oil company recommends it ?
And how are you qualified to propose this is a fact ?

Yes they are.

Well Mobil for one. Kelsie Clendon who was the lube technical manager at Mobil when I worked there, used to recommend mixed fleet lubes as being great lubes for bikes.

Actually Dipshit is quite right.

[CookMySock]

Curiously, my bike shop recommended that I not use fully-synth motorcycle oils, as they had some problems with clutch slippage with them.

This was no anecdotal evidence. They tried it - clutch slipped. Stopped trying it - clutch stopped slipping.

Do the math.

edit: seriously, how can it matter a toss? Motorcycle oils are not subject to extended oil-change intervals, so why should we ever need a cutting-edge lubricant?

Steve

[dipshit]

seriously, how can it matter a toss? Motorcycle oils are not subject to extended oil-change intervals, so why should we ever need a cutting-edge lubricant?


Because those better quality oils have a better base stock that resist shear longer with having to lubricate the gearbox as well. And they also tend to have higher levels of acid regulators and corrosion inhibitors that are beneficial for bikes that could be sitting for long periods of time between occasional use.

[AllanB]

Have a read of this... http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Consumables.html

I did, and I quote: "10w-40 oils should not be used in a motorcycle that runs the engine oil through the transmission"
Obvious this Internet expert knows a lot more than many global motorcycle manufacturers who specifically specify 10w40 in literally millions of motorcycles.

Yep - I'd really go by what he says ......

[dipshit]

I did, and I quote: "10w-40 oils should not be used in a motorcycle that runs the engine oil through the transmission"
Obvious this Internet expert knows a lot more than many global motorcycle manufacturers who specifically specify 10w40 in literally millions of motorcycles.

He means mineral 10w40. Synthetic 10w40 is fine. (that was just his summary. He has more pages on oil)

Why? Because that mineral 10w40 oil you put in your bike could soon be only a 10w20 after 1000ks. A good synthetic will hold closer to its viscosity for longer.

http://image.sportrider.com/f/8665061/146-0310-ShearTest-zoom.gif

From...

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/index.html

[Quasievil]

Yes they are.

Well Mobil for one. Kelsie Clendon who was the lube technical manager at Mobil when I worked there, used to recommend mixed fleet lubes as being great lubes for bikes.

Actually Dipshit is quite right.

Well this MOBIL employee says that MOBIL engineers wont and Dont endorse such a practice and if you do be it on your own head.

[Motu]

better quality oils have a better base stock that resist shear longer with having to lubricate the gearbox as well. .

We won't mention the Mini,which was in production for about 40 years,starting in 1959 with oils no one in their right mind would use these days....with engine oil running in the trans.They even had auto versions running in the same engine oil.They were told it couldn't be done.

[Flip]

Well this MOBIL employee says that MOBIL engineers wont and Dont endorse such a practice and if you do be it on your own head.

Well I will stick with what Kelsie used to say thanks. She was the lab manager at the LOBP, she set up the used oil analysis lab then took over the lube tek position in HO.

I use one Valvolene general mixed fleet lube in all my vehicles with the exception of the Roadking that gets a Harley oil Syn 3. I only use one Valvolene oil because its available locally in commercial sized packs at the right price. I can't actually say too much about the Valvolene oil I use, I do change it out very regually and I have never had a lubricant related failure. I have stuck with the Syn 3 in the HD because it's the one oil that HD recommends that can go in the motor, primary drive and gear box, its expensive but it makes it easy for me only having to keep one oil.

[Flip]

We won't mention the Mini,which was in production for about 40 years,starting in 1959 with oils no one in their right mind would use these days....with engine oil running in the trans.They even had auto versions running in the same engine oil.They were told it couldn't be done.

Mini boxes were never the strongest box on the planet. The A series gear box be it in a Mini, Morrie 1000, or MG Midget was designed to run on motor oil. The sincro rings in these boxes are bronze and the EP additive in extreme pressure gear oils react with "yellow metals" and turn them into yellow sludge.

[Owl]

Motul 300V for a greener oil.:yes:

Think of the children!

[Teflon]

Well I will stick with what Kelsie used to say thanks. She was the lab manager at the LOBP, she set up the used oil analysis lab then took over the lube tek position in HO.

I use one Valvolene general mixed fleet lube in all my vehicles with the exception of the Roadking that gets a Harley oil Syn 3. I only use one Valvolene oil because its available locally in commercial sized packs at the right price. I can't actually say too much about the Valvolene oil I use, I do change it out very regually and I have never had a lubricant related failure. I have stuck with the Syn 3 in the HD because it's the one oil that HD recommends that can go in the motor, primary drive and gear box, its expensive but it makes it easy for me only having to keep one oil.

Rotella T- API CJ-4 Better for flat tappet cams within OEM specs-NO Cats .13% Zinc
Valvoline All Fleet Good for Gas and Diesel Engines natural or turbo-NO Cats .15% Zinc
Spectro Golden Semi-Syn Good for higher HP applications, natural or turbo, and flat tappet cam-NO Cats .15% Zinc
Kendell GT-1 API SM/SL Good for higher HP applications, natural or turbo, and flat tappet cam-NO Cats .16% Zinc
Valvoline VR-1 Good for higher HP applications, natural or turbo, and flat tappet cam-NO Cats .20% Zinc

I brought some valvoline today. Specs look good.

[TimeOut]

found this site today...

http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/castr_au/default.asp?categoryId=3000

choose Motorcycles from the dropdown menu and then select your bike brand and model.

for Oil Additives i found this site
http://www.powerupusa.net/index.htm
there is a NZ site for powerup but it is down at the mo...
http://www.powerupnz.co.nz

has anyone heard of Powerup oil additives???

Powerup has no relation to Motorup... Motorup aint that good for cars so not good for bikes, Motorup got taken to court for misleading consumers. Google it...

Powerup is no good for wet clutches.
Boss added it to a Honda Quad, had to drain it after 100k centrifical clutch slipping like mad.

[Quasievil]

People, two things, read your bike manual and follow the recommendation, and consider the oil companies recommendation, whats so freckin hard about it

[Motu]

Oil specifications change,or are superseded....but your manual and the oil recommendations of the time don't change.In 1987 there were some good 20/50's,now they are a budget oil for worn engines,even oil names that have been around a long time like GTX are not the same GTX of 20 years ago,let alone 30 years.Time to do research for an oil meeting modern specs.

And don't go on about Castrol again Quasi,you are sounding like an oil rep who knows about nothing except pushing their product....I've met dozens of them over the years,none impressed me.

[p.dath]

Oil specifications change,or are superseded....but your manual and the oil recommendations of the time don't change.In 1987 there were some good 20/50's,now they are a budget oil for worn engines,even oil names that have been around a long time like GTX are not the same GTX of 20 years ago,let alone 30 years.Time to do research for an oil meeting modern specs.

When I went to buy oil for my bike for the first time I took the manual in. I couldn't buy oil of the same specification - they don't make product witch such low specifications anymore.

[Quasievil]

And don't go on about Castrol again Quasi,you are sounding like an oil rep who knows about nothing except pushing their product....I've met dozens of them over the years,none impressed me.

Bit Harsh Motu dont you think, we are trained on many things sorry your current rep doesnt impress you tho, perhaps its time for a change.

[Pixie]

The short answer is no, don't mix oils or you ruin their individual characteristics and run the risk of shortening the life of your motor at the same time. If you've done reasonably high k's (say 50,000 km+ or less on a high-revving motor), using a fully synthetic oil for the first time at that distance; you run the risk of oil seal leaks as synthetic is a very efficient dirt scavenger and can take carbon and other residues off seal faces causing leaks (it did on my wife's first MX5).

One of the major differences with motorcycle oils is that they tend to avoid certain components of the additive package which car oils have. This is because most bikes have wet clutches and car additives can make them slip. Also, some bike oils have an additive to reduce the effects of oil shear (early breakdown of the oil) due to higher revs than cars. Hope that answers your questions anyway.



To be more precise,Synthetic oils Are made from two base stocks: PAOs ( poly aliphatic olefins ) and Esters.PAOs are purely synthesized chemicals made from various natural hydrocarbons that come out of holes in the ground and Esters are made from fatty acids from plant and animal sources.
PAO based synthetics have the extra solvent property that can loosen varnish deposits that have built up in old engines that have been lubricated with mineral oils all their lives.These deposits can block oil paths and result in an engine seizing.PAO base stocks are less common today as it is more expensive than Ester.So the problem is unlikely to occur.
The resultant oil that is manufactured in either process,is chemically identical to mineral oil;mixing mineral oil and synthetic has no great problems other than you end up with a blend that is better quality than the mineral constituent and worse than the synthetic constituent.

Marge: What's Brunch?
Jacques: You'd love it, It's not quite breakfast, it's not quite lunch, but
it comes with a slice of cantaloupe at the end. You don't get
completely what you would at breakfast, but you get a good meal!

Synthetic has less contaminants than mineral (less dinosaur poo) and oxidises less than mineral because of this.Synthetic is not "more slippery" than mineral.
The quality of detergents,viscosity index improvers,PH buffers etc is dependent on the retail price of the oil -the better the quality the higher the price-regardless of whether the oil is mineral or synthetic.
The base oil does not break down due to shear in motorcycle gearboxes.The VI package does however.So a multigrade oil,say a 15W40 is a 15 weight base with viscosity index improver polymers than raise the viscosity to 40 weight when they get to operating temperature.
The VI polymers do get sheared in use and lose the ability to raise the viscosity and you end up with a 15 weight oil which does not protect your engine well.This shearing happens in all machinery but is at it's worse in the gear trains in a gearbox.More expensive oils have a more expensive and more durable VI package.
Other additives such as PH buffers that neutralise acidic combustion products and detergents that suspend solids (ash and carbon) so that the filter can remove them eventually become spent.
Then it's time to change the oil.

It's interesting to note that the engine oil in ocean going ships may not be replaced for the life of the ship.Through the use of hugely efficient filtering and decontamination plant and the precise control of oil temperature, the base oil can be used indefinitely.




By the way,I use Elf oil.
Not because it's better than anything else,I just don't like those bloody elves.

[Pixie]

It's very important to match the recommended SAE spec. That is, you should not be using a 15W40 oil where a 10W30 is required in high-speed motorcycle engines, or they will wedge the thicker oil up and spin a bearing inside a housing.



All due respect but this is bollocks.
There is no "thicker" or "thinner" oil in a multigrade.Just base stock and a VI pack

[Pixie]

We won't mention the Mini,which was in production for about 40 years,starting in 1959 with oils no one in their right mind would use these days....with engine oil running in the trans.They even had auto versions running in the same engine oil.They were told it couldn't be done.

Yes but it made 10 HP and had the British "continuous oil change" development designed into it.

[Drogen Omen]

I read my Buell manual and it suggested i can use Diesel oil for a length or 3000km's before needing an oil change, it also said that diesel oils can be a good way to clean out the engine because of the higher amout of soap in it.

well i got a bottle of Power-UP nnl690g (as my primary lubs my gears and transmission)...
gonna put it in with my oil this weekend, and will be using Mobil 1 from now on as its the best motorcycle oil available in New Zealand going by almost every bike forum i checked on the net.

__________________________________________________ _____________________

Power Up New Zealand was established in 1988, the head office is located in Christchurch with sales representatives throughout the country.

Product categories
- Aviation
- Oil & grease

Automotive
- Fuel

Engineering, general
- Grease
- Grease guns
__________________________________________________ ______________________

Aurora Technology Ltd in Harewood, New Zealand - Power Up New Zealand provide the following fuel and oil performance additives nnl690, nnl690g, algex, thixogrease, tak2 fuel additive oil additive for a wide base of application including planes, trucks, cars, motorcycles, boats, any engine or machine, earthmoving and construction equipment

Power Up NZ will prepare an application chart detailing specific lubricant types at no cost so that the correct lubricant can be identified and sought. We also have the experts out in the field that will come to you, rather than be a telephone link from an urban centre.

As a final word, it is cheaper to change the oil more often than it is to change the motor. Don't try to economize lubrication cost by stretching out oil change intervals without expert advice!

For further information, look at the Maryn New Zealand website :- www.maryn.co.nz

[Quasievil]

well i got a bottle of Power-UP nnl690g (as my primary lubs my gears and transmission)..

Is it a Oil or a Additive?

[Pixie]

I'm about to market an additive derived from oily dog fur.
It's called Fukitup.
Look out for it.

[Drogen Omen]

Is it a Oil or a Additive?

powerup nnl690 is an oil additive.

[Quasievil]

powerup nnl690 is an oil additive.

Dont go putting it in with the Mobil 1 eh mate.

That would be bad

[Drogen Omen]

Dont go putting it in with the Mobil 1 eh mate.

That would be bad

too late, just finished pouring it in...

i also noticed that i don't have a separate oil for gears or trans... so i guess the mobil 1 will lube everything...

[Quasievil]

i also noticed that i don't have a separate oil for gears or trans... so i guess the mobil 1 will lube everything...

Dont know, you dont and arent running MOBIL 1 anymore, you are running Drogen special.

good luck with that.

[pritch]

I have read the thread to which Vifferman refers and it is good. The best I've seen though is here: http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/tech/122020-motor-oil.html

The posts you are looking for in particular are those from georgecis, George Morrison. He was an engineer but has sadly passed away. The thread ranges all over the place but his contributions are really worth the read. It is a long read but, with the possible exception of Blackbird, you'll almost certainly know more about oil when you finish than you did when you started.

The thread relates directly to Ducati, and it does mention at least one brand of oil not available here, but even so I think it's worth the effort. Especially with regard to what some of the less principled manufacturers have been up to...

[quickbuck]

Yes but it made 10 HP and had the British "continuous oil change" development designed into it.

That would be "Recirculating with Total Loss" oil system.
It is a genuine term in the aviation industry..... Rolls Royce Viper is a common engine that uses such a system.

I digress.
Where were we...
Oh, my ten cents.
Always buy the BEST oil you can afford.
Never add additives
If you feel the need, buy a better oil... it works out cheaper in any (EVERY) case!!!

[Owl]

The best I've seen though is here: http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/tech/122020-motor-oil.html

What an excellent read!:yes:

[PeeJay]

What an excellent read!:yes:
Heres another excellent read.
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf
And considering it's published in the land of lawyers, if any of the results were untrue, or unfair in any way, amsoil would be getting sued left right and centre and they would have to remove it from their website.
I am sure the other oil companies would have had their own tests done in the hope of catching amsoil out, but considering its been published for 9 months and is still available on amsoil's website, you would have to assume its accurate

[Pixie]

For those that haven't heard of BITOG:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/

[JMemonic]

People, two things, read your bike manual and follow the recommendation, and consider the oil companies recommendation, whats so freckin hard about it

Hmm ok that's a good question. I read the manual and tried to do exactly as you say, however the manufacture of the oil has recently (i.e. in the last couple of years) stopped bringing it its brand name products and gone to an authorised supplier who has never imported the product, I then went back to the manufacturer who informed me they never brought the product into the country.

Kinda stuffs that plan whole idea huh.

[JMemonic]

Question I seem to be reading oil types can affect your catalytic converters is this correct?

[Teflon]

https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Catalytic_Converters_Collection.aspx

[Quasievil]

Question I seem to be reading oil types can affect your catalytic converters is this correct?

Yes, but more so they are designed to help protect the filters, this is particularly the case with modern Diesel engines with very complex emission standards.
what kinda of vehicle you talking about, If I dont or my info doesnt I can find out from a Mobil engineer on Tuesday for you

[JMemonic]

Yes, but more so they are designed to help protect the filters, this is particularly the case with modern Diesel engines with very complex emission standards.
what kinda of vehicle you talking about, If I dont or my info doesnt I can find out from a Mobil engineer on Tuesday for you

The ST3, it has cats (or given the physical size should they be kittens hmm:yes:) and it could well be possible that they have recently suffered at the hands of an oil change.

[pritch]

Heres another excellent read.
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf
And considering it's published in the land of lawyers, if any of the results were untrue, or unfair in any way, amsoil would be getting sued left right and centre and they would have to remove it from their website.



That report is discussed in the thread I mentioned. While not untrue it could be said to be... ummmm slanted(?).

Amsoil doesn't seem to be rubbished anywhere that I've seen but I've never seen it in this country and there are good alternatives such as Motul and Mobil readily available. (The omission of Castrol and Shell from that very short list of good alternatives is not unintentional.)

[TripleZee Dyno]

That report is discussed in the thread I mentioned. While not untrue it could be said to be... ummmm slanted(?).

Amsoil doesn't seem to be rubbished anywhere that I've seen but I've never seen it in this country and there are good alternatives such as Motul and Mobil readily available. (The omission of Castrol and Shell from that very short list of good alternatives is not unintentional.)

We stock Amsoil, so now you know.
Regarding the report I dont think its slanted because reading about oil testing and standards (from places other than Amsoil) the tests are standardised tests designed to evaluate oil performance. Amsoil had another report out a few years ago, same format and testing , where Amsoil came first in 7 categories and were top 5 for the rest. This test they are first in 5 categories, top 5 in 5 and in the middlle for one. Overall they still came out first with Mobil one second. Same as last time. Other oils performed well for some tests but failed badly in other areas which dragged their overall score down.
Methodology included blind testing at 5 different ASTM certified labs.
Biggest thing is none of the other oil companies actually refutes the results, and I firmly believe the only reason they dont is because they cant.
In the report they actually name oils which fail tests. If that isnt inviting a lawyers letter what is.
I used Amsoil for quite a few years and then couldnt get it. Used Mobil1 for a few years and now I get in Amsoil so am using it again.
In the shop I sell Amsoil, Mobil1, and Supercheap packs and I leave it up to the customer to decide.
I believe its the best oil out there, so I use it.
If anyone does want Amsoil give us a call.
$30 a qt MCF and MCV
cheers

[Quasievil]

Tests are always an interesting animal, on the basis that every oil company has one that rates theirs higher than anyone elses.
and there are so many of them oil companies would need a whole department with a massive budget to go around refuting the results.

[TripleZee Dyno]

Tests are always an interesting animal, on the basis that every oil company has one that rates theirs higher than anyone elses.
and there are so many of them oil companies would need a whole department with a massive budget to go around refuting the results.

As far as I understand it ASTM, SAE and ACC (American Chemistry Council) are responsible for testing and performance standards on behalf of API. and in order for a manufacturer to use an API rating their oil has to pass a certification process laid out by ASTM, SAE, and ACC.
The ASTM testing in Amsoils study are part of this certification process.
Any oil which carries an API rating has had these same tests done so other manufacturers already have their own results if they wished to refute anything.
One advantage Amsoil probably has is its small size allows it to respond more quickly to any new standards API comes up with. Eg Amsoil MCV is API SG SL and JASO MA2 rated whereas Mobil1 Vtwin is API SG SH and JASO MA.
A big company like Mobil will have a lot of old spec oil to get rid of before they push the new stuff. I guess.

[pritch]

Mobil V Twin is a 50 weight oil specifically for cruisers. It's not intended for "performance" V twins such as Ducati or VTRs etc.
Mobil do another oil for performance bikes.

[Blackflagged]

Synthetic oil Made Artificially? Think this has been covered in some of the previous links but i haven`t read them.And for my fellow lazy late comers!:Regards Synthetic oils - alot of oils sold as synthetic came out of the ground , the Yanks wanted to use the Name synthetic for Hyper refined mineral oils that had the same properties as True synthetic.So off to court they went, and won!.When it says trisythetic is actually a Hyper refined mineral oil,with things added.At that time Amsoil and Motul and maybe Pennzoil, Redline and others were true synthetic`s, as is in made by man, not from squashed dinosaurs!

If used in a Car, a Oil pressure Gauge, can tell you a fair bit about the service life, of some much hyped oils.

[pritch]

the Yanks wanted to use the Name synthetic for Hyper refined mineral oils that had the same properties as True synthetic.So off to court they went, and won!.

I believe that it was Castrol who went to court, first in the UK then in the USA. Shell now also label oils as "synthetic" that are not synthetic in the sense that Motul, Amsoil, Mobil, etc use that term.

[Quasievil]

Mobil V Twin is a 50 weight oil specifically for cruisers. It's not intended for "performance" V twins such as Ducati or VTRs etc.
Mobil do another oil for performance bikes.

Yup, the Mobil recommendation is MOBIL 1 Racing 4T 10w-40 for (as my inquiry) A Ducati 1098 or a Honda VTR firestorm