Tertiary education - Necessity?

[EJK]

Someone please tell me if Tertiary education is a necessity when it comes to IT industry. I know I've heard some of you have a healthy career even without attended/ finished tertiary education but I'd be delighted to hear the pros and cons from you experienced people.

The life I'd known since the cradle may change as soon as next week so please, someone enlighten me.

Cheers in advance.

[crazyhorse]

I believe Teritary education is important more so these days than say, 20 years ago. not sure about IT industry though :)

[mashman]

Pah!!! how long is a piece of string. Depends on what area of IT you want to go into. It's not always a necessity...

[EJK]

Pah!!! how long is a piece of string. Depends on what area of IT you want to go into. It's not always a necessity...

People here I met early this evening told me that a position (what they call it) Technical Support and Customer Service is avaliable and that I can apply whenever I want. I spoke to the staff and the manager also. He further told me that from there I could begin my career in IT Industry. That I can move upto higher job as years go on etc...

I am so tempted, but I am a student at the moment but the pressure is the application closes this Friday.

I don't know what to do. Someone please give me a direction since I lack the experience. I humbly ask.

[firefighter]

People here I met early this evening told me that a position (what they call it) Technical Support and Customer Service is avaliable and that I can apply whenever I want. I spoke to the staff and the manager also. He further told me that from there I could begin my career in IT Industry. That I can move upto higher job as years go on etc...

I am so tempted, but I am a student at the moment but the pressure is the application closes this Friday.

I don't know what to do. Someone please give me a direction since I lack the experience. I humbly ask.

What are you studying? Not having that piece of paper may hold you back in the future.

I found that out the hard way, now that I have baggage like a mortgage etc, and trying to stdy full-time, it's hard. Your brain literally does slow down dramatically after 25, so getting that paper for the CV is better earlier rather than later.

It may not hold you back, but it's something to think about, there will always be more opportunities, especially when qualified. I.T is hardly a niche' market.......

[EJK]

What are you studying? Not having that piece of paper may hold you back in the future.

I found that out the hard way, now that I have baggage like a mortgage etc, and trying to stdy full-time, it's hard. Your brain literally does slow down dramatically after 25, so getting that paper for the CV is better earlier rather than later.

It may not hold you back, but it's something to think about, there will always be more opportunities, especially when qualified. I.T is hardly a niche' market.......

I'm an IT student. 2nd year of computing. It is what I've studied to become, but that I can become without finishing the course!
Decision, decision...

[mashman]

I'm an IT student. 2nd year of computing. It is what I've studied to become, but that I can become without finishing the course!
Decision, decision...

Networking side? Development? Analyst, architect, db guru etc...??? irrelevant really... finish the course just in case... but what area ha ha ha...

[sil3nt]

Take the job. Experience is worth so much more than anything else.

Just ask yourself if you wanna be stuck in IT support for the rest of your life!

[GaZBur]

Will they allow you to continue your studies part time, let you duck away for a couple of lectures/labs during the week if you make the time up? It would help make the decision easier if you got best of both worlds. Third year is where you learn the most so I would keep at it if you can.

[firefighter]

I'm an IT student. 2nd year of computing. It is what I've studied to become, but that I can become without finishing the course!
Decision, decision...

Oh dude, if I were you i'd finish the degree/Dip. No point in giving up what you've put in. As I said, I.T is massive, there is always going to be plenty of opportunities when you have finished, especially for I.T support......if you were being offered a very rare career opportunity then yes, but that's not the case, really is it?

To me it's a no-brainer. Stick with the study. Unless it's DataCom and they're going to take you on as an intern and support you and your personal development, which it deos'nt sound like it is.

[EJK]

Personally even I am studying Web Development, basic programming, 3D design and Information Systems Methodologies at the moment, I am very into customer service. I want to meet people and communicate and deal problems with people. The front-line work.
After finishind the course, I had a plan to work at a new car sales dealership (Peugeot & Subaru as a Service Advisor not sales) here in Christchurch just to gain experience dealing with customers in real life. That's how I'm devoted to customer service. I thrive on it. That's my thing.

...and this job position is SPOT ON.


Take the job. Experience is worth so much more than anything else.

Just ask yourself if you wanna be stuck in IT support for the rest of your life!

Nah, no way I want this for the rest of my life. I'll think this as a maybe stepping stone? But who knows?


Oh dude, if I were you i'd finish the degree/Dip. No point in giving up what you've put in. As I said, I.T is massive, there is always going to be plenty of opportunities when you have finished, especially for I.T support......if you were being offered a very rare career opportunity then yes, but that's not the case, really is it?

To me it's a no-brainer. Stick with the study. Unless it's DataCom and they're going to take you on as an intern and support you and your personal development, which it deos'nt sound like it is.

I hear you. Also the manager said that in time, most service desk (frankly) people gets an opportunity to step up to Infrastructure Architect or some similar for training. That's quite brief but I'm sure thats what he said.


So, 1 vote for the employment and 1 goes to the study.



Will they allow you to continue your studies part time, let you duck away for a couple of lectures/labs during the week if you make the time up? It would help make the decision easier if you got best of both worlds. Third year is where you learn the most so I would keep at it if you can.

Edit: 2 for empolyment, 2 for study.

Thank you all for the suggestions. Every word is worth it for me. Cheers.

[mashman]

I hear you. Also the manager said that in time, most service desk (frankly) people gets an opportunity to step up to Infrastructure Architect or some similar for training. That's quite brief but I'm sure thats what he said.


To be honest that's some fuckin leap... service desk to Infrastructure Architect... not saying it can't happen, it's just a rather large leap... finish the study... it'll give you the basics and they're pretty important

[Tank]

Hey EJ.

It really depends on what you want to do.

20 years ago it wasn't a problem - you could have no education and you could end up anywhere in IT you wanted.

Times have changed. You really dont need a uni degree now for entry level jobs (helpdesk etc), and you will be able to move up - but it will be slow and really options will be limited.

Technical roles like programmers / dba's / networking engs etc - again they dont require a deg - but you have to have a pretty solid skill set in the area you want to work.

IF you want to move to a role that is more snr - Consulting, BA, Management, etc you really need a degree - not so much for the IT side of things, but for the business side. By way of clarification our when it comes to our development graduates (we have about a dozen) only (I think) 2 have IT degrees - the other 10 have deg in law, accounting etc.

I personally think the best way forward is understanding business and how IT can help it (being an enabler) - not being the IT guy who just fixes things.

Best of Luck!

[mashman]

I personally think the best way forward is understanding business and how IT can help it (being an enabler) - not being the IT guy who just fixes things.


Where can I find a job like that... I haven't seen one in years...

[EJK]

"Finishing the degree is ideal" is what sums up the thread. For that I shall take the advice.

It is no pity that I lose an opportunity to work full time in entry IT Industry, also believing (as said by the professionals above) that more opportunities such as this will shall remain, I have made the decision to finish the course and continue seek thereforth.

Cheer everyone.

[Slyer]

Since you have already started uni, finish it.
Personally I've chosen to go the support job and work my way up route. It's not your average support job though, I'm only supporting customers half the time. The rest of the time I'm testing, writing documentation etc etc. Sometimes training.

[Big Dave]

....henceforth.

[CookMySock]

Where can I find a job like that... I haven't seen one in years...There isn't one. You have to buy a business, or start one from scratch to do that.

@OP, get your degree. There's plenty of time.

Steve

[Maha]

I believe Teritary education is important more so these days than say, 20 years ago. not sure about IT industry though :)

You are absolutely correct in a way, I couldn't further my education by the time 1978 rolled around, so I left school and went on the dole.

[Tank]

I personally think the best way forward is understanding business and how IT can help it (being an enabler) - not being the IT guy who just fixes things.


Where can I find a job like that... I haven't seen one in years...


There isn't one. You have to buy a business, or start one from scratch to do that.

What a load of fucken bollocks. There are plenty - you just have to be smart enough and hold enough credability.

But what the fuck would I know - Im a IT professional in a snr position in a global company, you sell ice creams.

[Headbanger]

But what the fuck would I know - Im a IT professional in a snr position in a global company, you sell ice creams.

Pure Gold.


Feck, The rep system says I have handed too much to Tank already. Perhaps I should give some red to DB to even it up.

[Headbanger]

Personally I'd say finish the study seeing as your already a fair whack into the process.

Once its done its there for life.

Granted I'm looking for work in a completely unrelated industry but at the moment due to the limited positions and amount of people applying for work most are insisting on a Tertiary degree in any field just to apply for the job, Meaning even though I'm going to have vastly more experience then most my application will get culled out in the very first round.

[mashman]

What a load of fucken bollocks. There are plenty - you just have to be smart enough and hold enough credability.

They do exist... I agree, never said they didn't, just said I hadn't seen one in a long time... especially in global companies... been there, done that over my 15 years of IT development... glad you've found one...

[Tank]

They do exist... I agree, never said they didn't, just said I hadn't seen one in a long time... especially in global companies... been there, done that over my 15 years of IT development... glad you've found one...

I wasn't commenting at you (I quoted you to follow the conversation so DB's quote could be taken in context).

There is a difference between "I havnt seen on in ages" and a outright statement of "there isnt one - you have to ..."

[CookMySock]

What a load of fucken bollocks. There are plenty - you just have to be smart enough and hold enough credability.

But what the fuck would I know - Im a IT professional in a snr position in a global company, you sell ice creams.You could have offered your opinion in calm and non-abusive fashion, but seemingly you exploit every possible opportunity to not do that. It may be that you are a "IT professional in a snr position in a global company" but it looks more like you are an abusive dolt on a biker forum.

Be assured, it causes you more grief than it does me. Do you feel angry?

Steve

[spajohn]

I studied a business diploma at Polytech, and am now a senior manager in IT, as well as strategic business decision maker. Does not having a degree make a difference to me? No, career experience counts for more.

However that may be changing as the IT industry matures so it will depend on what opportunities you have to get into it. A degree is certainly going to put a foot in the door, and I think hoping to complete it part time is a big ask on yourself, so you would need to be committed to get through that, especially once you start getting $ and wanting to go and use them.

Tank made some good points, there are so many technical roles you can rise to as your gain experience, but if you want to be consulting or similar roles you really should complete your degree.

[avgas]

I always found it a bit of irony that people who did not further their study would often say "Nah your study doens't count for nothing".
Have they ever sat down and thought - all that pointless, repetitive work experience I collected over the years counts for nothing......
ask yourselves who got let go in recent recessions and foreclosures????

Seems its very easy to judge others, but hard to judge yourself.

I think tertiary education is important for any industry, but I also know work experience is just as important. This fear of being left behind on both fronts has always driven me forward in both regards. However this chews up a very large chunk of your life - and you have to have the drive to do it.

EJK - what do you plan to do. ITIL is a good accreditation to get into the IT industry - as it teaches you about service management, and service industry is the most common entry point. Its always good to know what you boss expects from you. Not most bosses will not have this accreditation - and will have taken 20 years to learn what you learn in 6 months. This does not make you better than them, but does help you understand their perspective. ITIL is also internationally recognised.

[Tank]

Not most bosses will not have this accreditation - and will have taken 20 years to learn what you learn in 6 months.

Not 'dissing the course - but I think saying that they will learn in 6 months what it takes others 20 years to learn is a huge push.

[Devil]

My 2c. If you're already in the middle of the course, stick with it. Employers like to see that. Commitment.
I dont have a degree, but did do a 10 month diploma at a private tech which got me in the door for a 1st level support job. That was about 10 years ago. Now I can afford toys and the mortgage heh :D

On the job experience is what has moved me up, but as said previously it depends what area. I'm technical, experience counts for a lot.

Now all the said... I cant wait to get out of IT. hah

[motor_mayhem]

EJK - What what you have described as your current position, I would say finish your course unless you can see yourself enjoying the other job for 5-20 years. It's a lot harder to slum it like most students the second time round, easier to learn as a young person and demoralising to watch your student loan go back up the second time round. Also I think some employers perceive an incomplete course as a bit of a downer (though that's only a guess). The best way is if you can get a scholarship or two during your uni time and into some graduate programmes at the end, most of them look after grads pretty well.

ITIL is very useful if you are going into IT support. Though if you wanted to do such courses I would join a large IT company first and get them to fund it, the company I used to work for paid for me to do it which cost them about 2k. On the other hand I paid for my own mcp cert, was a bit over $200 I think and IMO worth it.

Most of us can only say what worked or didn't work for us so don't necessarily take our advice as the ultimate. From what I have seen success is usually proportional to willpower.

[Delerium]

OP, im in a similar boat. im exactly half way thorugh my degree at Auckland uni. Im finding that the stuff we are doing now in the papers is the interesting and relevant material though. Which has made up my mind to finish. (that and that work is picking up the tab).

On average those with a degree get paid more than those without. I figure that with the management and leadership exeperiance from work and a uni degree in information systems, and operations management will hold me in good stead to work my way up the corporate ladder.

[Insanity_rules]

My 2 cents.... I own an IT solutions company and I have bugger all paper (other than microsoft and other associated certs). I find that if I put a graduate on the tools I have to undo a bit of learning and wake them up with a bit of real world scenario. However web dev's, sales consultants and associated designers are more use to me complete with a shiney degree as that type of learning works bettter for those tasks.

I design, architect and install spec systems (Network engineer/ consultant) and in that world its all about the practical. For that kind of role I prefer diploma students so they have learnt enough but we can add to it. In saying that I also look for genuine interest in each field so that my candidate doesn't burn out and become resentful of their job.

In your case I'd finish your training first because for your path (as long as thats the path your going to take) it'll work better.

[Tank]

Most of us can only say what worked or didn't work for us so don't necessarily take our advice as the ultimate. From what I have seen success is usually proportional to willpower.

Probaly the best trueism in this thread.

Work hard and work smart - sucess will come.

[Slyer]

Remind me to ask you for a job later.

[EJK]

Probaly the best trueism in this thread.

Work hard and work smart - sucess will come.

Notes taken :-)


Here I tell you the truth. I'm so greateful that I get to recieve free hints and tips from many professionals whom has expertised on the IT Industry.

For that I really (from the bottom of my heart) thank you. Really, sincerely.



Remind me to ask you for a job later.

O rly? Thought you were my rivalry? :-P

[Delerium]

My 2 cents.... I own an IT solutions company and I have bugger all paper (other than microsoft and other associated certs). I find that if I put a graduate on the tools I have to undo a bit of learning and wake them up with a bit of real world scenario. However web dev's, sales consultants and associated designers are more use to me complete with a shiney degree as that type of learning works bettter for those tasks.

I design, architect and install spec systems (Network engineer/ consultant) and in that world its all about the practical. For that kind of role I prefer diploma students so they have learnt enough but we can add to it. In saying that I also look for genuine interest in each field so that my candidate doesn't burn out and become resentful of their job.

In your case I'd finish your training first because for your path (as long as thats the path your going to take) it'll work better.

What about one with a degree, military training in the same area, and experiance with it also ie fibre optic and cat 5 installation with basic network construction? (genuine question not taking the piss)

[BuzzardNZ]

Don't bother with IT, it'll all be outsourced to India eventually anyway.
I've been in the IT industry for 12 years and have seen the gradual trend for companys to outsource the development. Pay peanuts, get monkeys, but the damn bean counters don't seem to realise this!

[mashman]

Don't bother with IT, it'll all be outsourced to India eventually anyway.
I've been in the IT industry for 12 years and have seen the gradual trend for companys to outsource the development. Pay peanuts, get monkeys, but the damn bean counters don't seem to realise this!

My brother in law does 2 - 3 months in India every now and then and his recommendation, to his company, is that it'd be cheaper to develop in the UK (if you know the UK market it's VERY easy to make lots of money there)... why? simple. They don't seem to have the skills/talent to do the job properly... application costs ballooning out of control because the maintenance costs of shit development are huge in terms of penalties for late delivery and poor SLA turnaround times, let alone the re-devlopment and all that goes before... but he's one of a line of people saying instead of 40 guys from India, give me 5 experienced guys from the UK and he'd have it done...

I too have dealt with guys in India, 2 months of stupid o'clock phone calls (from a desk in East Kilbride) chasing functionality, trying to get timescales for completion etc... I eventually made the same recommendation to my company... The skills may well be there, but the "best" have either been cherry picked or have moved to the UK/US etc... I would never recommend outsourcing to India if you're trying to keep your company reputation...

[pete376403]

Don't have any tertiary quals , do have a few microsoft certs, have been in the industry since starting with IBM in 1967. What I ahve seen is people come in qualified up the wazoo but totally useless in a practical way. I do believe that HR people love qualifications, certs, etc so when the appointee fucks up, HR can justify the placement by saying "well s/he had all the qualfications..."
In IT there are a shit load of people who talk the talk, but hopeless at walking the walk. In my experience, Indians are the worst, followed by Saffers.
And in HR there are shit load of people who believe that any overseas qual must be better than a New Zealand one

[Insanity_rules]

What about one with a degree, military training in the same area, and experiance with it also ie fibre optic and cat 5 installation with basic network construction? (genuine question not taking the piss)


The military training bit would pique my interest. Shows respect for authority and willingness to learn. The ones who think they know it all and aren't open to further training or instruction that are dangerous.