Kiwibiker Name/number register.

[FROSTY]

Guys and gals I propose as soon as possible a list of ALL willing KB'ers be drawn up.
The List will have on it.
KB handle,Real name, Contact numbers and your choice of first contact in event of a misshap.
In the case of people like myself who are offering assistance (recovery vehicle etc) This info will also be on file and with their permission given out to the stranded/broken down KB'er
This information will be held ONLY BY KEY KB'ers so it won't just be given out willy nilly to everyone.(protecting the individuals privacy)
The way this info would be used is that The contact details of the key KBers will be available to one and all, If ya have a problem you will call one of the I'd suggest 6 spread throughout NZ
They willl have the contact details etc of ALL KB'ers and will get the people needed to contact the KB'er in trouble.

Heres another angle on this thing.
What if we have an official KB club card ?Like a club membership card.
On it would be KB name/real name/phone number/contact person and phone number.
It would be credit card sized and would have the KB logo on the back.
The way it works is that at the start of a ride the ride leader is handed everybodys club card.End of ride they get handed back.
ride leader would hand his card to tail end charlie
It would be an official KB card and would be propperly laminated up and would cost say $5.00 per card --profit going to site upkeep.
The card would also be cool as an ID for getting KB discounts at shops that are offering discounts to KB members.
Being an official type Id it would need total aproval by spank as Im suggesting that the back be a shrunk down KB logo
I think having key contact people still has merit -In that they could act as liason between the willing to help and the needing help people


.

[GROOMER]

Good shit! Whats the easiest way of everyone giving their details? Normal email?

[pyrocam]

Awsome.

I was wondering about this.
soo. PM them to you for now you think? thats a hefty task. can Spank Me install a module on the forums to do it for you?

[bugjuice]

i thought there was something like this already in place, just hadn't been updated for a while..

Something like a simple Excel spreadsheet should suffice. That can also be used to populate data should it ever need to be too.. Or can be automated to be updated etc. The data can still be kept secure if needs be..

[FROSTY]

BJ -waaaay over my head -that excel shite---Yea Im sure spank can help--please pretty please.
To answer ya question --The KBers willing to help list is readily available but Im talking ALL active KBers -not to offer assistance more in case of emergency be it theyve broken down,gone missing from a group ride,crashed or --well you know I don;'t have to go into detail.

I think one important point is that it WONT be like the current easily accessed list .
It will be held by certain well trusted KBers and they alone will have the info available to them

[FROSTY]

Awsome.

I was wondering about this.
soo. PM them to you for now you think? thats a hefty task. can Spank Me install a module on the forums to do it for you?
I'm hoping itll be possible to have it able to be self manageed info wise--Ie anyone can imput data into the list --Well Im hopeful

[JohnBoy]

i would be keen to help if need be... my work computer has a high speed internet connection with all the office programmes that we could need so no dramas.

good idea frosty... ill would put my name on that list.

[James Deuce]

The details are in my profile notes.

That's a good starting place. If everyone puts it in there, I'm sure that Spankme to run a query of some sort to extract the details from that entry.

[FROSTY]

Jim mate I feel given recent events we need to go a little bit deeper--ie emergency contact person/number
possibly it could be dragged outa notes

[NC]

It's a good idea..

[SpankMe]

Isn't this what user notes (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/usernote.php?do=shownotes) are for? It can only be viewed by senior members.

If you want extra functionality added or the layout changes, let me know exactly what you need.

[James Deuce]

Jim mate I feel given recent events we need to go a little bit deeper--ie emergency contact person/number
possibly it could be dragged outa notes

That's what is in my User Notes.

[Waylander]

Puting them in user notes would work but what do you do if you don't know thier handle? Though I guess it could work and have the person who orginizes the rides print out the list with the details on them so that they can take it with them on the ride. That way if something happens they can just pull it out and start calling rather than waiting till access to a computer or texting somebody who might be able to hop online to get it.

[StoneChucker]

I'm all for this idea, but another idea to consider is just having something on you, like a business card of sorts. The thing about user notes, is that it's relatively easy to become a senior member, just a matter of time.

But, I'm a pretty trusting person, and my numbers in the phone book (so user notes are no different) so who really cares I guess.

[Waylander]

Maybe putting it as a sticky in the Mods Forum?

[Ghost Lemur]

Isn't this what user notes (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/usernote.php?do=shownotes) are for? It can only be viewed by senior members.

If you want extra functionality added or the layout changes, let me know exactly what you need.


That's what I thought.

Frosty, really a smarter idea would be for people to take responsibility for themselves and insure that sort of information is in their wallet (or something else always on their person). It's not just on a ride that this information could be handy to complete/semi strangers.

Having it all stored on a forum is only of use if you have access at the time. Not really much help in the middle of nowhere.

Doesn't have to be flash just write the important details on a credit size piece of card.

[saiko]

Good idea, but if on a group ride, we wait for someone to turn up, & they don't, then what? Maybe some type of registration for group rides, and everyone carries a cellphone.
We can then at least call or text missing riders, & have emergency contact info off the rego sheet. Maybe we all have a card with details, give to a nominated person, then retrieve it at the end of each ride?

[crazylittleshit]

Frosty Where do we post these details?

[TonyB]

Isn't this what user notes (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/usernote.php?do=shownotes) are for? It can only be viewed by senior members.

If you want extra functionality added or the layout changes, let me know exactly what you need.
Excellent idea Frosty. Spankme, my question is can admins search for a name to see if they are a member? IE if a biker dies/ is injured and their name is published in the paper, is it possible for admins to quickly search for that name in the user notes to see if they are a KB member?

[FROSTY]

Tony B I think you just really nailed my point
Quick question here folks
Not being egotistical but Id saY Im a fairly High profile KBer
Whats My name?? ---Who Would you call if i was badly injured??
Where do I live?? --Whats my phone number??

Don't post it here -but honestly how many of these questions can you answer and would you have that info if i crashed and needed help?

I agree regarding personal responsibility -all good -Im suggesting we are a community that maybee could care a bit for one another

[SpankMe]

I have added the following private fields to your profiles. Up to you which fields you wish to fill out.

Actual name
Home phone
Mobile phone
Work phone
Home address

These member profile fields can only be viewed by members of the KB Inner Circle group. You can request to join this group from your group membership’s page in your User CP. This request needs to be approved by the group leaders who will be sent an email upon your request.

Currently only FROSTY is a group leader, but we will need group leaders from Wellington and the South Island.

[Mr Skid]

I have added the following private fields to your profiles. Up to you which fields you wish to fill out.

Actual name
Home phone
Mobile phone
Work phone
Home address

These member profile fields can only be viewed by members of the KB Inner Circle group. You can request to join this group from your group membership’s page in your User CP. This request needs to be approved by the group leaders who will be sent an email upon your request.

Currently only FROSTY is a group leader, but we will need group leaders from Wellington and the South Island.

Thank you Spank.

Is there any chance of fields for an emergency contact name and number?

[Waylander]

Um this maye be a silly idea but would it be possible to Pm group leaders to get contact info of people that will be on a ride? Like say MR or Feint or someone sets up another ride would they be able to get the info for those that will be along for the ride. List online is great but it would be better if it was more readilly accessable when out and about on a ride.

[FROSTY]

Thanks a million Spank thats totally top ho :Punk:
Could we please add an emergency contact name/number feild as well.??
Somehow what Id like to do is pull down a hard copy That can be carried around so its instantly available.
Im thinking that we;re not near a puter a lot of the time but we usually have our wallets on us.

[Waylander]

Thanks a million Spank thats totally top ho :Punk:
Could we please add an emergency contact name/number feild as well.??
Somehow what Id like to do is pull down a hard copy That can be carried around so its instantly available.
Im thinking that we;re not near a puter a lot of the time but we usually have our wallets on us.
That's why I was sugesting having it so that a ride orginaizer can email you Frosty or another leader of the group to get the info on those attending the ride.

[FROSTY]

Weylander I get ya point but mine is that some possibly many folks aint comfortable giving out their personal info for all and sundry to see.
They (I hope) would be comfortable giving that info when they know very few people have direct access to that info and that those that do will use that info with total discression.

[Waylander]

Weylander I get ya point but mine is that some possibly many folks aint comfortable giving out their personal info for all and sundry to see.
They (I hope) would be comfortable giving that info when they know very few people have direct access to that info and that those that do will use that info with total discression.

Ok fair enough. I don't see how that doesn't work with what I said. Just ride orginizers and only the numbers and stuff of people goin on that particular ride. But this is your baby so I'll back out. Just ask me if you need any help.

[FROSTY]

Mate never back out or back down !!!!
How dya think The KB trackday worked so well??
Cosa guys like you giving suggestions be they negative or positive
I aint blowin smoke up ya ass -An Idea stays just that untill people grab hold of it and make it real

[TonyB]

But, I'm a pretty trusting person, and my numbers in the phone book (so user notes are no different) so who really cares I guess.
True, but then it doesn't say "owns a VERY clean late model R1" in the phone book either. Hate to see it get stolen.

[FROSTY]

Having slept on this Heres a concern I have.
This here aint a popularity contest its all about looking out for one another in the best way possible.
If we do things this way then the trusted members need to be the members most able to assist.
Criteria being- access to a phone most of the time and avaiability to talk and assist.

[StoneChucker]

Criteria being- access to a phone most of the time and avaiability to talk and assist.
Feck, that makes me shit outta luck - was just about to put my name in the "hat"...

I'd like to see the people responsible, being people who have been on many rides, and had lots of interaction with other member OUTSIDE of this website. So no longtime web lurkers who've never actually been seen.

I would suggest CSL, but she's very busy with Uni. There are some top notch Wgtn guys, but they may be hesitant to assist as they have busy lives too.

[Al]

Tony, this is a great idea!
I also belong to the BMW Owners Register and we have a booklet printed yearly with details of people who agree to have their details printed. The details are:
name
address
available for coffee visit
spare bed available
space for bedroll
camping space
available to assist in breakdown (trailer) and kms willing to travel
workshop facilities

The names are divided up into different regions... This seems to work quite well.

Something similar sounds great :Punk:

Al

[FROSTY]

Heres another angle on this thing.
What if we have an official KB club card ?Like a club membership card.
On it would be KB name/real name/phone number/contact person and phone number.
It would be credit card sized and would have the KB logo on the back.
The way it works is that at the start of a ride the ride leader is handed everybodys club card.end of ride they get handed back.
ride leader would hand his card to tail end charlie
It would be an official KB card and would be propperly laminated up and would cost say $5.00 per card --profit going to site upkeep.
The card would also be cool as an ID for getting KB discounts at shops that are offering discounts to KB members.
Being an official type Id it would need total aproval by spank as Im suggesting that the back be a shrunk down KB logo
I think having key contact people still has merit -In that they could act as liason between the willing to help and the needing help people

[FROSTY]

I'd like to see the people responsible, being people who have been on many rides, and had lots of interaction with other member OUTSIDE of this website. So no longtime web lurkers who've never actually been seen.
Thanks SC --once again someone says what i'm trying to say and saying it 1000 times better. :niceone: :whistle: :whistle:
Yep its important that it be "real" people
Mind you --does JIM2 really exist?? I have been to wellytown 5 times now and have never actually met this bloke :devil2:

[FROSTY]

Hey another twist guys n gals--specific health issues--
EG two Kbers I know well are diabetic -If you are like me and only allergic to pain then all good.But for those with issues it'd be good if that info was available (hope we never need it)

[Zed]

Guys and gals I propose as soon as possible a list of ALL willing KB'ers be drawn up.
Heres another angle on this thing.
What if we have an official KB club card ?Like a club membership card.Good ideas Tony, thanks for taking the initiative! :niceone:

[FROSTY]

Thanks mate --apreciated.
:Punk:

[FROSTY]

Tony, this is a great idea!
I also belong to the BMW Owners Register and we have a booklet printed yearly with details of people who agree to have their details printed. The details are:
name
address
available for coffee visit
spare bed available
space for bedroll
camping space
available to assist in breakdown (trailer) and kms willing to travel
workshop facilities

The names are divided up into different regions... This seems to work quite well.

Something similar sounds great :Punk:

Al
Al-we sorta have that in our user notes -but hardly any use when someones stuck in the middle of nowhere
Hang on guys --Ill just plug my pc in and see whos available--out the back of nowhere on the Tukas or Sh22 :killingme :killingme :killingme

[curious george]

Hate to sound like a wet blanket, but the only people I want contacted in an emergency in the middle of a ride are a Cop, an Ambo and a Tow Truck.

There nothing my parents/partner/bestfriend can do for me if they are not there at the time.
What about a list divided into regions of friendly Towies who can keep the bike safe for a while?
Good idea about allergied though, although those people should get themselves a medicalert bracelet though. http://www.medicalert.co.nz/
Things like bee sting allergies needing adrenaline should be carried somewhere somebody else can find them if you cant etc......

[trev]

Frosty - I'm just a senile old sod trying to get a handle on all this & thinking aloud.
It appears to me we are trying to achieve a few objectives here :-
1.) Emergency Contact
2.) Rider / Vehicle recovery
3.) Official card
4.) Assist trip Leader.

1.) Great. I am an impulsive rider always shooting off on my own & absolutely nobody knows where I have gone. I would put this card ( weatherproof I hope ) probably on my bike in a visisble location so even if I am unconscious the info is available.

2.) I am lost as to how the card will help with vehicle recovery.

3.) Great - easy to see the benefits

4.) Having been a dive trip leader I see pit falls here.
- you are making the trip organiser / leader very responsible. Unless you have been a dive trip leader you won't understand the relief felt when all the heads have come to the surface.
- a tail-end charlie cans off & is unconscious - who is he ? The trip leader has gone ahead with the cards. Now he is back but he has 5 cards we don't know who they are. 4 are up the road somewhere & one is this guy on his back. ( hopefully some mobile phone calls will sort it out )
- end of trip. 3 guys have f--d off & forgotten to get their cards & their phones are turned off or can't be heard. Does the trip leader go back up the road looking for them or head home hoping they are O.K.
etc. etc. These problems can be sorted but being a dive trip leader can be a pain in the arse. We don't want organising a bike trip to be the same.

Don't get me wrong - I think this card idea is a fantastic & I am definitely in for one even if only for points 1) & 3) above.

[James Deuce]

Geez why don't we wait until Labour institute the compulsory National Identity card, and implant RF transponders in our neck after the next election. Then it will be easy to find people with our tricorders and beam them straight to hospital.

[Blakamin]

if people need wellington, I'm here... have permanent web access and a 24hr a day phone ... can give 6 numbers to call... all get answered (mrs answers phones for a livivng) and i'm still nearly always here...
let me know...

[Milky]

Guys and gals I propose as soon as possible a list of ALL willing KB'ers be drawn up.
The List will have on it.
KB handle,Real name, Contact numbers and your choice of first contact in event of a misshap.
In the case of people like myself who are offering assistance (recovery vehicle etc) This info will also be on file and with their permission given out to the stranded/broken down KB'er
This information will be held ONLY BY KEY KB'ers so it won't just be given out willy nilly to everyone.(protecting the individuals privacy)
The way this info would be used is that The contact details of the key KBers will be available to one and all, If ya have a problem you will call one of the I'd suggest 6 spread throughout NZ
They willl have the contact details etc of ALL KB'ers and will get the people needed to contact the KB'er in trouble.


Edit: I read over the rest of the thread and now realise what you are thinking of is not the same as what we already have.

On a side note, I am happy to take over the emergency contact list that PT was doing. I might get onto that sometime this week.

[FROSTY]

Hate to sound like a wet blanket, but the only people I want contacted in an emergency in the middle of a ride are a Cop, an Ambo and a Tow Truck.

There nothing my parents/partner/bestfriend can do for me if they are not there at the time.
What about a list divided into regions of friendly Towies who can keep the bike safe for a while?
Good idea about allergied though, although those people should get themselves a medicalert bracelet though. http://www.medicalert.co.nz/
Things like bee sting allergies needing adrenaline should be carried somewhere somebody else can find them if you cant etc......
George/Jim2 --Ill be blunt then-You are DEAD or seriously hurt. Who do you want called?? If its nooone hey thats your call and Im sure everyone can respect that.but it would at least give the cops somewhere to start tracing next of kin.
Heres the senarios I thought should be covered
1) group ride say down 22 -One rider doesn't get to the end -He's got lost
Group leader can call and make sure hes ok
2)IDfor KB discounts at shops.
3) senario 1 turns out to be an emergency breakdown senario or a bike stopping crash.
4) riders hurt -allergys? also whats his real name?
5)riders badly hurt -who does he want contacted??
Keep in mind in the case of senario 5 it most likely will be the ambos or police

Hey guys this isn't intended as a negative thing its intended as a case of KBers helping KBers

[sAsLEX]

give plasticard a look, they make things like the tui card and the student cards think they are about 3 or so bucks for a run of 500 with full colour or so look them up. this would look very professional rather than laminated card

[Jeremy]

How about before the ride starts everyone just rights down the emergency contact number + their mobile number + real name on three columns of a "ride attendence form". And maybe some other columns for each stop that they made it to. So that as people arrived at a rest stop they could tick off that they made it.

In the event of a crash we can get their real name from their license and cross check it with the ride attendence form.

This has three major advantages.

1) It tells you how many people attended the ride. No more guessing.
2) It's dirt cheap. Piece of paper (maybe specially printed, but it's not going to cost more than 50c per ride) + a pen.
3) Often people bring along their mates to a ride who aren't KB members. This system deals with all people the same.

[Hitcher]

People should use the "User note" facility. Mine contains all of the information I am prepared to post online.

[curious george]

Yeah yeah Frosty, I'm not pissing on your fire, just trying to think how it would be of any real benefit.
It did occur to me later on that a little list could be quite good.

I see your scenarios, (or senarios as you want to call it... P/T), and counter with...
If you and I went for a ride tomorrow.. or rode home together from the last track day, and one of us binned it..
I have your number, and you mine, but to get Pillions I need to get on the net, (some phones can, but mine can't), or to have arranged something with you earlier.

Which leads me to the conclusion for those who can be bothered, they need to:
1: Do some homework and look up the user notes of your riding buddies before you go riding, and take them with you.
This saves you having to think "shit shit!!! was that 'curious george' or 'ned flanders' that just shot off the road?"

What I'm trying to tell you is that's this list is a good idea, but not just for crashes, for anything requiring somebodys contact details.
And yes, real names help too. heehee.
*updates something on user note thingies*

[Slipstream]

People should use the "User note" facility. Mine contains all of the information I am prepared to post online.

I agree. I don't like putting my contact details on a public forum. No matter how cool the forum people are.

But I think the card idea rocks :niceone:

[justsomeguy]

I vote for sAslex's plasticard type card.......:yes:

[James Deuce]

And lo! It came to pass that KB descended into bureaucratic nightmare.

If I'm in a group of riders, people at home have a general idea of where I'm going and what time to expect check-in phone calls. A couple of people I generally ride with know the folks at home.

If I'm alone, people at home have a general idea of where I'm going and what time to expect check-in phone calls.

I'll update people at home if I change plans.

I have my license in my wallet. Emergency services can get all the necessaries from that, or from the rego on the bike. I know that system works, because they've had to use it for me before.

I have public domain information in my user notes that anyone with a bit of common sense or access to the right online databases can easily get.

KB is a great social network. I would hate to see it turn into a club, with the politics, and the compulsory fees (plastic cards cost money), and the mission statements, and the broader political activism, but above all, I'd hate to see an OSH culture descend and turn KB rides into "Not Fun" for the people organising a weekend or weekday jaunt through KB.

[FROSTY]

Why is it jim that you seem only to be able to see things in the negative???
The idea was raised in order to HELP people not to make life difficult.
Club this can never be -we're spread too far and wide .
But a group of people who care about one another we already are.
If you personally want no part in this idea thats up to you but don't shoot it down before options are tossed around and the best idea found.
Ie lets not toss the baby out with the bathwater

[James Deuce]

Why is it jim that you seem only to be able to see things in the negative???
The idea was raised in order to HELP people not to make life difficult.
Club this can never be -we're spread too far and wide .
But a group of people who care about one another we already are.
If you personally want no part in this idea thats up to you but don't shoot it down before options are tossed around and the best idea found.
Ie lets not toss the baby out with the bathwater

It's not negative. We should all take responsibility for providing that information to whomever we see fit. We have a truck load more mechanisms available to share that information than 20 years ago, and most people use those systems in one way or another. I don't think NC's using KB to get contact details for Sam's nearest and dearest was in any way a failure of any sort. It was just another communication medium. Emergency services have all the necessary contact details as soon as they sight rego or license anyway.

I've organised a couple of rides through here and the turn out to the rides far outstrips anything I used to manage through Club facilities in the past. The KB rides are equal parts terror and fun. Terror because the ride groups mutate in size and form constantly and fun because of the diversity of people along. I count heads and interrogate people during the ride to make sure I understand why the group size has changed and I ride at the very back on KB rides I organise.

I know where you are all coming from, but I prefer the semi-organised mayhem of KB to an organised club with secretary, treasurer, committee, and work. If you start making contact details compulsory you need an infrastructure to support it.

[Waylander]

I never read anywhere in this thread where it was compulsory. You're right about a few things Jim2 but sometimes it takes the system a while to get hold of family of someone who went down in a bad way. I know for a fact that if I went down hard my family would rather hear it from someone who I ride with rather than a police officer a few days later. No offence to the men and women on the force but sometimes they can be a bit blunt. This may be somethine that is just my family but I'm sure most families will be glad to know that someone was there to help out when needed.

I don't see a need for fee's and such to go into this and the card would only be marginally usefull in my opinion but havng an emergency list of people to contact so that families can know what is going on is a good idea. Even if it is just writing it down on a card and carrying it in your pocket. Just keep it somewhere easily accessable. Ride orginizers wont have to collect them just if someone goes down and is unconcous search them for the card after calling emergency services. If the person is awake just ask them for it or they can call themselfs.

Carrying a cell phone is a good idea but not everyone can afford them and sometimes they do mannage to fall out of pockets in a wreck and are fairly hard to find in tall grass. Anyway I think I've coverd all I wanted to say, I know some of my veiws have changed lately but I've been doing alot of thinking. See y'all on the road.

[phantom]

if its too complex it won't get used. We all have to carry our licenses, a similar sized peice of card with your contact details on it can be tucked in the same place. i'm not too keen on having my contact details available to all and sundry, my phone number is unlisted after having a lot of trouble with a wacko stalking my partner, however if it was just one otr two respected members that would be fine

[FEINT]

When I organised a ride last week, I got riders to send me their contact number, name, next of kin name and next of kin number. I then forwarded that on to a moderator for safekeeping.

Most people sent their details via PM without trouble. Just my 2 cents :)

[James Deuce]

Waylander, the Police don't contact your family "a few days later". They do it while you are in the ambulance, or being loaded in to it. They will also tell them where they are taking you. If the Police don't do it, the Ambos will, as they did in my case. It is not a good idea for friends or riding buddies to contact families directly IMO.

There is an element of compulsion sneaking into the discussion, and I for one don;t want to see OSH mentality descend on KB ever.

[Waylander]

Not in my experiance they are not. May be different here but with the effeciantcy I've been hearing of them lately that's not likely. When I wrecked the 250 and broke my arm the ambos and stuff were there almost emidiatly but I was at the hospital and done with x-rays and everything and no word to my family until I called them after being released 5 hours later. I was no more than a 5 minute walk from my house I was awake and alert and tried to get someone to call my family but no one would listen. I'm sorry but I tend to not trust the police and such with contacting my family in an emergency.

[sels1]

and I for one don;t want to see OSH mentality descend on KB ever.

Got my vote there.

[Skunk]

I for one don't want to see OSH mentality descend on KB ever.
Seconded! Hope the motion is carried...

[Storm]

Thirded. OSH's way of thinking can go jump

[Ixion]

My 16.375 Byzantine Shekel's worth

Simpler is better.

Also, this information often changes, in the case of young people , often quite quickly.

If it's a permanent register how likely is it to be up to date ?

And it may vary almost from day to day (during term time , contact my girlfriend, in hols my parents [not my example] ) etc

So what's wrong with the ride organiser/marshall (and I do think that a serious ride should have at least one marshall), keeping a piece of paper for riders to put down rego, name , cell no and "what to do if I have a nasty".

If riders don't want to fill it in/ can't be bothered , well that's their right. Those who are concerned about such things will .

Always up to date, simple, cheap, the paranoid can opt out, and it can be destroyed at the end of the ride, thus eliminating stalking etc concerns.

[FROSTY]

Guys n gals I'm kinda getting worried this is turning into a slinging match .
On top of that this whole "inner circle" thing worries me.
Rather than inner circle perhaps it should be called "dumb f##$ prepared to be available 24/7"
I sure as heck wouldn't wanna have some elite group lording it over other KBers.
The whole Idea really was simple.
if we have a problem on a ride can we be contacted.
The only reason for the "inner circle" is so that your personal information is held by people YOU trust to be discrete with it.

I HATE fights and arguments especially between people I care about.

[bugjuice]

ahh.. so this is the inner circle thing. gotcha :niceone:

Sometimes when threads take off into pages and pages, I switch off and dismiss as people ranting on at each other. I'm glad I decided to have a flick thru. A lot of good ideas coming round here. Already updated my details, but I thought that was something that came with being 'senior' or summut, but wouldn't have known without reading this. May be start a new thread with the title 'UPDATE YOUR PREFS' or something like that, just so we and others who haven't bothered to keep up with this, know too. As for the people able to access those details, EVERYONE should put in their phones the home and cell numbers of those able to access it. Then if we are on a ride and need information, within a couple of calls, hopefully the data can be accessed. One problem I can foresee tho, is that what if everyone is out? Or what if the server is down again..? Not being negative, but if you fail to plan, you plan to fail.

As for t he card idea, again, I can see the benefits, and flaws. No system will ever be fail-safe, else Microsoft would be out of business. One person having everyones details is a good idea, since they are the ones to invite all along, but it is a big ownership to accept. Regular stops would be needed (should be done anyway), and it would then definately become a team effort to organise a ride, being that the initiator is the lead person, but then with the support or one or two others to help out, depending on group sizes.

I also think that the card should be commonly kept on the outside zipped pocket of the person, with the inside being the alternative, and under no circumstances should it be kept on/with the bike. The bike isn't you, and you don't burst into flames or pieces (as easily). Plus if the bike is stolen, then it's just the bike, not your identity.

Bloody good foundation, with those wanting to go forward, I think we have a solution burried here somewhere. We just need the roots to keep it all growing the right way and to be kept strong and trustworthy.

[Slim]

There is an element of compulsion sneaking into the discussion, and I for one don;t want to see OSH mentality descend on KB ever.
It's actually a Government/Big Brother attitude. OSH don't make the laws, they are just the department that has to educate & inforce them.

I'm with you on the point that each rider should be taking responsibility for themselves, by carrying their details on their person & letting their loved ones know their plans.

But ... a sign-on sheet is a good idea too. When you get over 30 bikes showing up for a run, it can be very easy to not notice if someone has gone missing.

[James Deuce]

It's actually a Government/Big Brother attitude. OSH don't make the laws, they are just the department that has to educate & inforce them.

I'm with you on the point that each rider should be taking responsibility for themselves, by carrying their details on their person & letting their loved ones know their plans.

But ... a sign-on sheet is a good idea too. When you get over 30 bikes showing up for a run, it can be very easy to not notice if someone has gone missing.
Yes, excellent revision of my point, and probably more valid, though I think there is an element of rule making creeping in.

However, don't expect me to organise rides if I'm going to be expected to account for people on the ride turning up at the other end. The whole point of KB is a loosely organised conglomerate of people with the single connection of a shared joy of motorcycling. This isn't a lifestyle club a la Highway 61, or an exclusive organisation like Ulysses. I like the fact I can take a different route, or exit stage left when I feel like it.

Generally speaking most people I've ridden with here pipe up and say that they are going to deviate from the organised course, or that they are heading home, usually at every stop along the way. However much people want to like the idea of keeping track of everyone, I think that you either make it a club ride with rules or keep it a loosely linked group of individuals (very in some cases).

[Rainbow Wizard]

Why is it jim that you seem only to be able to see things in the negative? :nono:
Jim2 comes across to me as a very level-headed and pragmatic chap with a point of view that's often different to the norm. I understand this and value it, in part I guess because he's a man to my own heart.

Fair enough to challenge his criticism but to blatantly misrepresent his attitude and character is reprehensible. His comments were not directed at you yet you chose to dump on him. :mad: Pity, methinks you do him and yourself a disservice. You are both good blokes, commenting to broadcast your own opinions for the benefit of all and who have the choice whether or not to find merit in your exposes. (say expozays) Maybe you're being a bit over-passionate on this one mate.

Hitcher's comment about User Notes is relevant and if you go look at Blakamin's profile you'll see his rather amusing wee entry AND anyone distressed by his departure can ring him because he's listed his mobile number there. Looks to me like a perfect and simple solution.

Down boy, down. :Playnice:

[El Dopa]

Heres another angle on this thing.
What if we have an official KB club card ?Like a club membership card.
On it would be KB name/real name/phone number/contact person and phone number.
It would be credit card sized and would have the KB logo on the back.
The way it works is that at the start of a ride the ride leader is handed everybodys club card.end of ride they get handed back.
ride leader would hand his card to tail end charlie
It would be an official KB card and would be propperly laminated up and would cost say $5.00 per card --profit going to site upkeep.
The card would also be cool as an ID for getting KB discounts at shops that are offering discounts to KB members.
Being an official type Id it would need total aproval by spank as Im suggesting that the back be a shrunk down KB logo
I think having key contact people still has merit -In that they could act as liason between the willing to help and the needing help people

If someones going to take the trouble to do KB cards, you might want to think about putting blood group and known allergies on the back as well (some people are allergic to certain antibiotics). Not to be morbid or anything, just a suggestion.

Personally, I carry my mobile with me everywhere, and the first person listed in the contacts is 'aaaa wife'.

I'm also thinking about getting a set of dog tags done. Doesn't need to be a bike crash, I could get hit by a bus.

[Waylander]

If someones going to take the trouble to do KB cards, you might want to think about putting blood group and known allergies on the back as well (some people are allergic to certain antibiotics). Not to be morbid or anything, just a suggestion.

Personally, I carry my mobile with me everywhere, and the first person listed in the contacts is 'aaaa wife'.

I'm also thinking about getting a set of dog tags done. Doesn't need to be a bike crash, I could get hit by a bus.
Hmm there we go get dog tags made up for everybody and Have all that info with the Kiwibiker logo on the back. Could even be used to identify ourselfs for discounts.

[James Deuce]

My blood type is, you'll like this Frosty ( ;) ), B negative - so I am! But seriously I'm not trying to be anything other than a Devil's advocate who sees a LOT more work being added to organising a KB ride. I used to be President of a Bike club once upon a time and organising a ride for 30 people was about a week's load of work. Every time no one turned up except Harold and his turnip shaped like a thingy riding pillion on the back of a dodgy looking Moto Guzzi V50 I'd swear that I'd never do that again, that I'd never put myself in the position of having the fun sucked out of riding.

I don't want anyone else to feel like that either. It isn't nice, and nor do I think that the onus of organising big rides should fall repeatedly on those who enjoy getting a big group together, because it will become a chore for them too.

Sedge is right too. Nothing chills me more than a newbie suggesting that they ride at the back by themselves so they, "won't hold anyone up."

How are you supposed to know if they get into trouble?

[Hitcher]

If someones going to take the trouble to do KB cards, you might want to think about putting blood group and known allergies on the back as well (some people are allergic to certain antibiotics). Not to be morbid or anything, just a suggestion.
More useful would be your coffee preference, so that the first rider to arrive at the destination cafe could place orders for those following...

[FROSTY]

:nono:
Jim2 comes across to me as a very level-headed and pragmatic chap with a point of view that's often different to the norm. I understand this and value it, in part I guess because he's a man to my own heart.

:
RW --You will need to read back a heck of a long way.Jim is someone I have immense respect for.Its his very negativity for new ideas that shows the issues I have to deal with.
Read through the ideas page for the first track day. (12 months ago)
Sometimes the negatives of an idea outweigh the positives and the idea gets canned.
A kite flys against not with the wind

[vifferman]

Waylander, the Police don't contact your family "a few days later". They do it while you are in the ambulance, or being loaded in to it. They will also tell them where they are taking you. If the Police don't do it, the Ambos will, as they did in my case. It is not a good idea for friends or riding buddies to contact families directly IMO.
Only slightly:Offtopic:
Heheh - I've been in an ambulance only 3 times, and the last was when I wrote my VFR750 off, on the way to work. The kindly ambo let me use his cellular telephenone to make a call, and bizzarely, I ended up calling work to say "I won't be in today", from right outside our building, as the ambulance was paused in traffic! A somewhat surreal moment.
"Hi - I won't be in today."
"Wondered where you'd got to. Where are you?"
"I'm actually right outside."
"Why don't you come in?"
"Uh.... I'm actually flat on my back, in an ambulance... etc etc."

[Paul in NZ]

Righto... How the heck did this little bolshi thread possibly go this long without my contribution? Ha!

How about.....

A little sticker for you helmut or bike? On it, it has your KB nick name, your blood group ('cos that pretty cool) and any stuff like 'type 1 diabetic', 'raving looney' etc and if you want, a phone number....

I'm sure you can get a printer wot does these reasonable and plugs into a PC. I'd kick in some dosh for the hardware....

Wadda ya reckon?

[James Deuce]

Righto... How the heck did this little bolshi thread possibly go this long without my contribution? Ha!

How about.....

A little sticker for you helmut or bike? On it, it has your KB nick name, your blood group ('cos that pretty cool) and any stuff like 'type 1 diabetic', 'raving looney' etc and if you want, a phone number....

I'm sure you can get a printer wot does these reasonable and plugs into a PC. I'd kick in some dosh for the hardware....

Wadda ya reckon?

:gob: bloody hell - I'll take 2!

[riffer]

Paul - you wear a Medic Alert bracelet don't you?

Mine quite clearly states "Diabetic - on insulin"

[madboy]

My God, how such a simple idea can be hung drawn and quartered by the masses... Frosty mate, what can I say??!! I feel for ya.

I take personal responsibility. And one day I'll take enough personal responsibility to put the important details (name, address, next of kin, allergies, blood group, etc) onto a card and let it live in my wallet and/or jacket.

If KB develops a confidential list, I'll also subscribe to that.

If KB develops cards, I'll put my hand up for those.

If the ride organiser wants some details, they can have those.

Go with the flow... it's all about FUN. Don't sweat the small stuff. :whocares:

[James Deuce]

Go with the flow... it's all about FUN. Don't sweat the small stuff. :whocares:


The poor bastard who has to organise everything isn't sweating small stuff, believe me.

[Hitcher]

Paul - you wear a Medic Alert bracelet don't you?

Mine quite clearly states "Diabetic - on insulin"
Mine says "Dickhead - on motorcycle"

[Waylander]

I'm gonna go with the dog tag idea as soon as I find a place that makes them.

[Jeremy]

A quick search on google for "dog tag" will give you a couple of places that do them in a variety of styles and numbers of lines of information.

[FROSTY]

The poor bastard who has to organise everything isn't sweating small stuff, believe me.
Ya aint talking about me are ya??

[El Dopa]

More useful would be your coffee preference, so that the first rider to arrive at the destination cafe could place orders for those following...

Only if they pay up front.

[James Deuce]

Ya aint talking about me are ya??

Empathising with you mate.

[Phurrball]

Pwoah... :eek5: :sweatdrop

What a thread! I'm reading through it being reminded of the rationale for our adversarial legal system...only when there are advocates for each point of view does the truth come out...in theory...

(Please! Leave the can of worms alone! - any mud-slinging/ worm feeding WRT the legal system, lawyers, judges or the civil law inquisitorial system V the adversarial system in PMs to me, or new thread!)

There are a heap of good ideas here, and plenty of equally important criticisms to throw them into stark relief. Perhaps we can find clarity, perhaps the way forward is a little less certain, what is important is that we are thinking about it - many heads are better than one.

While we are a disparate group, we are united by our abiding passion for a wide variety of two (and sometimes more) wheeled thingees. The wealth of knowledge, and strength of spirit in this community is impressive. (Yeah, I know! :puke: But y'know it's true!! :Punk: )

After a good sift through this thread, a few common themes seem to be emerging:

Simple = good.
Access to info in emergency (while protecting privacy) = good.
Over-complicating the delicate, ad-hoc structure of KB = bad.

My $0.02.

The card does seem a good idea. It could be optional for those that object philosophically/aren't interested, but strikes me as a useful tool in providing a real world identity outside the online KB 'Matrix', and form of ID that is the 'icing' to the D/Lic cake and could be used in other ways.

Sign up list at start of rides rides - simple and effective - but not perfect.

Contact details in online database - seems a good adjunct. If D/Lic / KB card don't provide enough of a picture, any reasonable person could make the leap to cyberspace to ID the comatose mystery biker / make contact with their nearest and dearest (Worst case scenario here: :weep: )

Dog tags and helmet stickers - way cool for those that want them! (Me, me! :yes: )

Coffee preference: Should be mandatory! Perhaps this does not go far enough - maybe 'break glass in case of bad coffee' resuscitation device is needed on all KB rides...

Hope I've noot exceeded my n00b mandate here... :o

Keep the ideas coming...

[Skunk]

Hope I've noot exceeded my n00b mandate here...There isn't one. :niceone: Good stuff.
Here's the senarios I thought should be covered
1) group ride say down 22 -One rider doesn't get to the end - he's got lost
Group leader can call and make sure hes ok
2) ID for KB discounts at shops.
3) senario 1 turns out to be an emergency breakdown senario or a bike stopping crash.
4) riders hurt -allergys? also whats his real name?
5) riders badly hurt -who does he want contacted??
Keep in mind in the case of senario 5 it most likely will be the ambos or police

The card idea: I like it but I can't see myself going though the pockets of some guy/girl I've just met to contact someone I don't know to tell them something I'm unsure about. *shug*
As for the blood group/online handle etc, good idea.

Online database for certain members to get the info from: I have no problem with the idea, but who's going to decide what state I should be in before contacting my wife or brother? Can we do this in a special user note for the 'Inner Circle' so we can add more or less detail as we see fit?

The sign-on list at the start of a ride seems to be the best to me. Up to the rider at the time if they sign-on or not and they can put down what they like if anything.

At the end of the day if it's an injury accident the Police will be involved. It's their job to contact the right people.

I remember someone mentioned another use for this info but I can't remember what it was. I'll come back to it later.

[Posh Tourer :P]

We oughtnt be trying to contact next of kin in serious accidents, I dont think that was ever the point of the idea.

If the person is that bad that they cant tell us who they want to be at the scene, we have no business contacting anyone.

If they are ok enough to ask for someone, no problem there. Is this whole thread moot? Why did we want to have a preferred contact person written down anyway? Frosty?

Edit: ok I see you have modified the first post. ID/discount cards? Great idea. As for any preferred contacts, I stand by what I said above.

[FROSTY]

Im reallly not sure where to go with this one. -I really think the basic idea is good. The ID card thing non compulsury has apeal to me

[SpankMe]

I have added the Private Fields to the vCard download. The Private Fields will only show for KB Inner Circle (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showgroups.php#group17) members. This will enable you to easily add members to your address book on your PC.

The individual members will of course need to enable the vCard download option.

[Skunk]

I have added the Private Fields to the vCard download. The Private Fields will only show for KB Inner Circle (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showgroups.php#group17) members. This will enable you to easily add members to your address book on your PC.

The individual members will of course need to enable the vCard download option.Can you make so we can allow only Inner Circle members to get the vCard download?

[SpankMe]

Can you make so we can allow only Inner Circle members to get the vCard download?
New option added to User CP.

[MadDuck]

Im reallly not sure where to go with this one. -I really think the basic idea is good. The ID card thing non compulsury has apeal to me

The basic idea is great and I am all for it. But I think a lot of us joined the KB family because its not a club per se......i.e. no club politics etc etc. Its come along for a ride and meet some cool people kinda community. Doesnt mean we dont care but...oh hell maybe I over think!

My main concern which has already been aired (I know) is that this could see the end of the "I going for a ride tomorrow any one come along meet me at....." I hope this wont be the case.

[Hitcher]

While KB may not be a "club", it shouldn't be taken for granted either. Please note the Paypal link on the home page and make a contribution to the costs of running it. I am sure Spankme would appreciate any and all provisions.

[MadDuck]

While KB may not be a "club", it shouldn't be taken for granted either. Please note the Paypal link on the home page and make a contribution to the costs of running it. I am sure Spankme would appreciate any and all provisions.

I am a bit annoyed that you would think that from my comment I would take it for granted. I support as many rides that have donations going back to the site as I can. I for one dont feel comfortable sending money over the cyberspace without knowing it has been received in the right place. If SpankMe wants to post a bank account?

This thread was not about that at all.

[Hitcher]

I am a bit annoyed that you would think that from my comment I would take it for granted. I support as many rides that have donations going back to the site as I can. I for one dont feel comfortable sending money over the cyberspace without knowing it has been received in the right place. If SpankMe wants to post a bank account?

This thread was not about that at all.
And my comment wasn't aimed at you. I know many people who contribute to "the cause" in other ways.

[SpankMe]

After thinking about it I now do not think controlling access to members private profile fields by using a group whose join ability is controlled by one or two members is a good idea. It sounds too much like a club which KB is not and never will be. Also as the group gets bigger not everyone is going to agree with who should join or want all the groups members’ access to their private info.

So a better idea I think is to have access to members private profile fields controlled by the buddy list ( http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/profile.php?do=editlist) system. This gives each individual member their own control over access to their info. I will work on this later and will create a new thread explaining it when finished.

[SpankMe]

For those that want some info/id/contact card. check out Biker Tagz (http://www.bikertagz.com/view_cart.php?tag=bikerTagz). No site organization needed. Each member can just order their own.

Just like in the war movies, I can just see the rider organizer yanking the extra tag from the unconscious/dead bikers neck before continuing on the ride. :blink:

[Slim]

A Cambridge-based (UK) paramedic has launched a national campaign with Vodafone to encourage people to store emergency contact details in their mobile phones.``Bob Brotchie, a clinical team leader for the East Anglian Ambulance NHS Trust, hatched the plan last year after struggling to get contact details from shocked or injured patients.

By entering the acronym ICE – for In Case of Emergency – into the mobile’s phone book, users can log the name and number of someone who should be contacted in an emergency.

The idea follows research carried out by Vodafone that shows more than 75 per cent of people carry no details of who they would like telephoned following a serious accident.``Bob, 41, who has been a paramedic for 13 years, said: “I was reflecting on some of the calls I’ve attended at the roadside where I had to look through the mobile phone contacts struggling for information on a shocked or injured person.

“It’s difficult to know who to call. Someone might have “mum” in their phone book but that doesn’t mean they’d want them contacted in an emergency.``“Almost everyone carries a mobile phone now, and with ICE we’d know immediately who to contact and what number to ring. The person may even know of their medical history.”

The campaign was launched this week by Bob and Falklands war hero Simon Weston in association with Vodafone’s annual Life Savers Awards.

Vodafone spokesperson Ally Stevens said: “The Life Savers Awards already demonstrate, through practical example, the important role a mobile phone can play when minutes matter in an emergency.``“By adopting the ICE advice, your mobile will now also help the rescue services quickly contact a friend or relative – which could be vital in a life or death situation.”

The campaign is also asking people to think carefully about who will be their ICE partner - with helpful advice on who to choose - particularly if that person has to give consent for emergency medical treatment.

Bob hopes that all emergency services will promote ICE in their area as part of a national awareness campaign to highlight the importance of carrying next of kin details at all times.

He said the idea was for the benefit of loved ones as well as the patient.

“Research suggests people recover quicker from the psychological effects of their loved one being hurt if they are involved at an earlier stage and they can reach them quickly," he added.

He said he hoped mobile phone companies would now build the ICE contact into future models, adding: "It's not a difficult thing to do. As many people say they carry mobile phones in case of an emergency, it seems natural this information should be kept there."

[FROSTY]

What a bloody good Idea slim :Punk: :Punk:

[Slim]

What a bloody good Idea slim :Punk: :Punk:
Shamelessly copied from another forum of course. ;)