Gear shifting for noobs? [Archive]

Matariki

18th March 2010, 15:43

Hey guys,

I didn't really know where else to post this so mods if you want to move this thread please do so.

I am very new to riding motorcycles and I am keen to get my learners licence. I have been practicing everyday. :yes:

However I get a little stuck when I comes to shifting gears. Its not going up the gears thats the problem, its going down them. My bike tends to slow down and becomes heavy it also makes a strange grinding noise (can't be good for the gear box) before shooting off again like a rocket.

So what its the correct way to shift down the gears without looking like a noob? :sweatdrop

The other question I have is, what do you do if you are driving up a hill and you accidently shift your bike into neutral and you start going down hill, backwards? This happended to me the other day, and It was quite a scary experience. I braked, however I couldn't go into first gear because the bike kept moving backwards. :shit:
So I turned the bike around and went down the hill, turned around and went back up.
However what would be the best thing to do If this happened on a public road?

avgas

18th March 2010, 16:16

Practise
Empty car park
Learn to use all gears over and over again.

Will be the easiest advice you will get here about how to get over your problem. Big supermarket carparks (make sure empty so no car drives into you) are the best - as yes you can get a GN into top gear less than 50kph......I wouldn't go lower than 20kph in top gear though. But it is possible.

Jonno.

18th March 2010, 16:23

It sounds like you're not releasing the throttle while down shifting, it goes like this: throttle down, clutch in, down a gear, clutch out, throttle out. Also search "blipping" on here, might help you.

sleemanj

18th March 2010, 16:36

Use the clutch as a variable thing, not "on and off", sounds like you might just be "dropping" the clutch when you change.

If you hit neutral or a false-neutral ("between gears") going up hill, just change down, re-stabilise your speed, and try again, unless you're going vertical or really really slow speed you won't instantly start rolling backwards, you have inertia. Practice hill starts, up the hill, pull over and come to a complete stop. Now take off again. Again, clutch and brake control are important here, neither is "on and off", they are variable and his helps you in this situation.

Either brake should be able to hold you on a hill really, if they don't, get it checked out, maybe you need an adjustment.

Matariki

19th March 2010, 02:36

How you would go about on parking on a hill?

Iv'e tried it but the bike started to slide down the hill. :mellow:

cowboyz

19th March 2010, 03:24

praking on a hill.. always facing uphill.. with bike in gear..

dont park across a hill or facing downhill..

YellowDog

19th March 2010, 05:22

Hey Hotkebab, practice makes perfect and it is good to read that you are practicing.

BUT it really does sounds you really do need a mentor to help you through with the basics.

Good luck.

The Baron

19th March 2010, 06:46

Hi
Practice is the answer. Large car parks are good for this. My family used to practice at Burridges car park on Sunday mornings. Its large, sealed and has gardens to ride around. You may need someone to get you and your bike there if you don't have a learners yet. The south end of Masterton has Solway Bottle store (Cobb & Co) car park. Also good on Sundays.

BiK3RChiK

19th March 2010, 08:43

So what its the correct way to shift down the gears without looking like a noob? :sweatdrop

The other question I have is, what do you do if you are driving up a hill and you accidently shift your bike into neutral and you start going down hill, backwards?
However what would be the best thing to do If this happened on a public road?

I think the first question has already been answered, but as to your second one, use the rear brake. This is the right foot brake instead of the brake on the right handle bar. Sometimes the gearbox can 'lock up' or 'bind up' when there is pressure on the box, so you just might need to find first gear by rocking the bike and looking for first gear at the same time. Obviously when trying to get it in gear, you'll be using the front brake on the right bar. When ready to take off, change from the front brake to the foot brake.

How you would go about on parking on a hill?

Iv'e tried it but the bike started to slide down the hill. :mellow:

See Cowboys post above... or try to avoid parking on hills ;)

Sounds like you are doing the right things.... practice, practice, practice. But also, see if you can find a mentor who will help you out.

All the best and welcome to KB and motorcycling...

centaurus

19th March 2010, 09:41

Downshifting is a tricky one for all beginners. It took me a very long time to get it right and smooth. In theory, you are supposed to engage the clutch, blip the throtle and downshift at the same time, re-engaging the throttle immediately. If this is done properly, the shift goes smooth (blipping the throttle ensures the engine revs match the new gear vs. your speed). However, to begin with, there is a slower but easier way: engage clutch, downshift, slowly re-engage clutch while you twist the throttle very slightly. If the engage the clutch slowly, in case the engine revs are not right, the wheels will speed up/slow down the engine without a big jerk. Once you get your hand, this process will go faster and faster and when you can match the engine revs with the speed, you can start doing all at once.

On uphill starts, your rear brake (foot brake) is your friend. If you get stuck in gear uphill, you first hold the front brake and the engage the clutch, put the bike in neutral, put your left foot down and press the rear brake with your right foot, then release the clutch and the hand brake. Now you are stationery, in neutral. When starting uphill, use the front brake (right hand) while you pull the clutch and engage first gear. Once first gear engaged, keep the clutch in but press the rear brake (right foot) and release the front brake so you can use the hand on the throttle.

CookMySock

19th March 2010, 09:52

Use the clutch as a variable thing, not "on and off", sounds like you might just be "dropping" the clutch when you change. Too much brain time is consumed easing the clutch out, when attention should be directed to more important tasks at hand.

The clutch is not for smoothing out badly-timed gear changes. The clutch is for starting off, and disconnecting the heavy flywheel from the gearbox so as to not damage the gearbox during changes, or slide the rear tyre on slippery surfaces.

Starting off - clutch in, select 1st gear, ease out clutch until engine revs drop 100rpm, then raise engine revs about 500rpm with the throttle, and release clutch lever only 1cm more and hold it there the bike will likely move away on its' own - it it does not, release the clutch lever another 1cm. If the engine revs drop well down below idle, add another 500rpm with the throttle - this gets more noticeable on steep hills. If you release the clutch fully at this time you will stall the engine. Most of your attention will be directed at concentrating on not releasing the clutch lever until the bike is moving and your feet are up - only then release the clutch fully.

Changing up; after moving away in 1st gear, raise the revs a comfortable amount and simply throttle off, clutch, and lift the gear lever firmly and release it immediately, and smartly release the clutch. The more practice you do, the smoother it gets. Do not try to slip the clutch out smoothly - just release it suddenly, and fix any resultant jerkage by practicing the timing of the whole movement. Smoothness will come in time. Keep your eyes up!

Changing down; from 50km/hr approx, simply throttle off, clutch, push the gear lever down firmly and release it, and smartly release the clutch. There is no magic and no need for any cleverness. Rinse and repeat as the bike slows. If the bike is too jerky, then change at a lower engine rpm.

Steve

sinfull

19th March 2010, 10:22

You will get the gist of changing down with practise !

A tip i gave my lady for hill starts was 3 stage
1/ park yr front wheel against a wall, put it in first and with 2 feet on the ground slowly let the clutch out till you feel the bike start to push against the wall, now hold the clutch right there without stalling (not for too long as it does cause wear on the clutch) try that a few times till you get to know where the point of engaging meets stalling !

2/ Same position with 2 feet on the ground but no wall in front of you, pull on the front brake with two fingers and practise applying a little gas with the brake on (you'll soon get a rythem where you can twist the throttle while holding the brake) , now put the bike in gear and put two feet down again, hold the front brake on and slowly let the clutch out till you feel the bike engage and tug forward but wont move due to the front brake being on, you may need to add a little gas to stop it stalling (hence the throttle brake pactise)

3/ while you have the bike tugging but not stalling with the brake on slowly let the brake out and you will smoothly take off !

Now try it on a hill !

Matariki

19th March 2010, 14:10

The Baron

19th March 2010, 15:01

There were two people who do the BHS and one of them used Burridges and the other uses Solway Bottle store carpark. I haven't seen Burridges used for a while but it could still be - There was someone taking the BHS at Solway just last week. I would think that both would do trainings (at a price).

The Baron

19th March 2010, 15:03

Me again - contact the AA office - they have there info..

Matariki

19th March 2010, 19:46

CookMySock

19th March 2010, 21:36

[...] I didn't realise how easy it was. :yes:Lots of biking-things are like that. Just a few hints and suddenly its easy and you're making really good progress!

Have fun!

Steve

neels

19th March 2010, 21:52

Well, after reading everyones advice here I set off to practice once again. I practiced stopping and starting again on a hill, I didn't realise how easy it was. :yes:
I also practiced downshifting, something I'll need to practice more. I'll also need to practice parking on a hillside.
My method for starting on hills is right leg down, front brake on, select gear, left leg down, right leg on rear brake to hold the bike, clutch and throttle to pull away.

Possibly completely wrong, but works for me.

Leseid

19th March 2010, 22:11

With all this practise you'll fly through your basic handling test. I don't think I got out of 2nd gear during the day of the test.
I still today get what I call "Neutral Rev outs" at least once a week, the trick I find is to hold the gear lever up for a moment when going from 1st to 2nd to ensure it has shifted in. I also noticed that gears 6 5 4 and 3 make nice click sounds down shifting, 2nd make a clunk and 1st make a thunk. Good luck on your test.

CookMySock

20th March 2010, 08:58

I still today get what I call "Neutral Rev outs" at least once a week, the trick I find is to hold the gear lever up for a moment when going from 1st to 2nd to ensure it has shifted in.If this is just not coming right for you after some time, then get the gear lever adjusted downwards a just the tiniest amount and see if it's any better.

Steve

Corse1

7th August 2010, 20:36

Talking about downshifting.

On the speed triple blipping the throttle is not normally necessary unless changing down at high revs to keep it smooth.

On the Ducati i have to blip the throttle for every down shift to avoid feeling like I am damaging the gearbox. And I have to time the blip so the shift is about halfway through the rev increase to get smooth changes.....maybe thats what they call charachter :blink:

PrincessBandit

8th August 2010, 09:34

My method for starting on hills is right leg down, front brake on, select gear, left leg down, right leg on rear brake to hold the bike, clutch and throttle to pull away.

Possibly completely wrong, but works for me.

Hi, great to hear you're so keen to get things going with your bike.

Blipping is one of those things that people talk about on here and just means giving the throttle a bit of a squirt (when I had my ginny it was actually lots of squirt in order not to have the engine conk out) while your clutch is in (disengaged). It helps keep your revs up in those few moments of gear changing. My ginny used to conk out frequently while changing down - especially to 2nd - and blipping was the best way to combat this.

As for hill starts, what you are doing it perfectly fine. Many people recommend using the back brake as it leaves your right hand free to operate the throttle in isolation. I rarely do it though, being quite happy using my palm to operate the throttle while my fingers release the brake lever. It does take some practice to synchronise, but lots of people do it once they get the hang of it.

There should be someone not too far from you - shop, instructor, mentor who can help you practice. And practicing somewhere quiet on your own is also good.

All the best!

Pixie

8th August 2010, 10:43

Hi, great to hear you're so keen to get things going with your bike.

Blipping is one of those things that people talk about on here and just means giving the throttle a bit of a squirt (when I had my ginny it was actually lots of squirt in order not to have the engine conk out) while your clutch is in (disengaged). It helps keep your revs up in those few moments of gear changing. My ginny used to conk out frequently while changing down - especially to 2nd - and blipping was the best way to combat this.

As for hill starts, what you are doing it perfectly fine. Many people recommend using the back brake as it leaves your right hand free to operate the throttle in isolation. I rarely do it though, being quite happy using my palm to operate the throttle while my fingers release the brake lever. It does take some practice to synchronise, but lots of people do it once they get the hang of it.

There should be someone not too far from you - shop, instructor, mentor who can help you practice. And practicing somewhere quiet on your own is also good.

All the best!
Aaaactually,the throttle blip is mainly to synchronize the speeds of the input shaft of the gearbox with the output shaft so the dogs on the gear selectors match up nicely and engage.
The grinding you hear when a gear change is muffed is the dogs grinding passed each other,not the gear teeth.The gear pairs are always engaged on motorcycle gearboxes.
Cars don't need the blip so much as they have sychromesh.

Dschubba

8th August 2010, 20:40

Too much brain time is consumed easing the clutch out, when attention should be directed to more important tasks at hand.

Starting off - clutch in, select 1st gear, ease out clutch until engine revs drop 100rpm, then raise engine revs about 500rpm with the throttle, and release clutch lever only 1cm more and hold it there the bike will likely move away on its' own - it it does not, release the clutch lever another 1cm. If the engine revs drop well down below idle, add another 500rpm with the throttle - this gets more noticeable on steep hills. If you release the clutch fully at this time you will stall the engine. Most of your attention will be directed at concentrating on not releasing the clutch lever until the bike is moving and your feet are up - only then release the clutch fully.

Steve

As far as the revs going up and down... do this bit with your ears.
Use your eyes for watching where you are going to go.
I think people get a bit fixated on gauges and flashing lights, keep your eyes up.

MarkH

8th August 2010, 23:04

Practise

This is 99.9% of what you need to change gear smoothly. There aren't many controls to worry about - just the gear selector, throttle and clutch are normally involved in gear changes - you need to learn how to balance the throttle & clutch and practising is how you learn.

When I first learned to drive a car I couldn't change gear without looking down at the gear stick and I lost count of how many times I stalled it. With practice I got smooth and gear changes became quick & effortless. When I got a bike it wasn't that much different apart from clutch & accelerator being controlled by the hands instead of the feet. With practice that became easy too.

jellywrestler

8th August 2010, 23:21

My method for starting on hills is right leg down, front brake on, select gear, left leg down, right leg on rear brake to hold the bike, clutch and throttle to pull away.

Possibly completely wrong, but works for me.
not a good move to have foot on the brake as its time like these you should have both feet free to use if needed, you should get some more practice in managing the front brake unless of course you're bike only has a foot brake like three of mine, they also have a foot clutch on the other side!!!
there's an over riding hand clutch mounted on the tank which when you disengage the clutch a second rear brake comes on. things were differnt in teh teens and twenties!

Insanity_rules

9th August 2010, 15:27

I find its easier to shift gear outside the pub or after school near the mall. It just doesn't sell otherwise.

Wannabiker

9th August 2010, 19:18

There are hills in Masterton?? It was flat last time I was there....:yes:

tigertim20

10th August 2010, 00:17

Changing down; from 50km/hr approx, simply throttle off, clutch, push the gear lever down firmly and release it, and smartly release the clutch. There is no magic and no need for any cleverness. Rinse and repeat as the bike slows. If the bike is too jerky, then change at a lower engine rpm.

Steve

hmm, telling a noob to dump the clutch on downchanges... real smart untill the rear locks and he stacks it. Do yourself a favour, ad this guy to your ignore list, his advice will kill someone before too long. Others on here have given you some good answers, just read the posts above the one I quoted, and you'll be fine

Matariki

10th August 2010, 01:13

Since replying to this thread, I have become allot more confident with gear shifting and finding I'm able to do it with out too much difficulty.

Soon I'll be ready to go get my restricted license and get rid of the dreaded L plate once and for all. :yes:

And I would like to thank everyone here that submitted advice, Its been a real help. :D

MarkH

10th August 2010, 09:43

Since replying to this thread, I have become allot more confident with gear shifting and finding I'm able to do it with out too much difficulty.

Now that you can do that it becomes much easier - just ride heaps and practise as much as you can and it will get easier & easier.

Soon I'll be ready to go get my restricted license and get rid of the dreaded L plate once and for all. :yes:

Excellent - the quicker you can upgrade the license the better! It isn't just the L plate requirement, getting past the absolutely stupid 70kph limit is also a great thing.