Child maintenance

[Katman]

I heard a story yesterday about a guy who is paying $3000 a month in Child Maintenance - of which his ex-partner only recieves $650. He was told the rest goes toward admin fees (read, Government coffers) and offsetting the fact that many people are not paying any maintenance.

Am I the only one who thinks this is scandalous?

[Nasty]

Sounds riduculous to me ... that money is meant to go to the child ... if the mother is on DPB there are some costs associated .. and if they are paying through IRD there are some ... but they can always do a private agreement to skip that wastage from what i understand.

[Maha]

My $$$'s are a private arrangement with my ex, fuck that IRD thing, too tough.

[Headbanger]

Sounds like lies to me.

[Katman]

Sounds like lies to me.

The guy telling me the story pays $600 a month - of which his ex gets $380.

Sounds like it's not an uncommon occurance.

[Duke girl]

If you are lucky enough to sort it out amongst you and your X then you are dam lucky cos there are people out there who get more than what they deserve when it comes to receiving Child Maintenance. I was always led to believe that it comes down to how much you earn to how much you pay out.

[mashman]

It was a huge flop in the UK... cost a fortune to implement and charged parents until they bled... mind you, some of them didn't really help their own cause...

[Subike]

I wonder how much of that $3000 is back payment for years of not paying any contrabution at all.
Kiwis are bad payers when it comes to LPC ,
Because it is collected via the IRD, many think it is a govt tax thus deliberatly try to avoid it, or try to give false details about their income, so their assesment is low.
Having been the recipiant of LPC, the dept coninurs till it is paid, long after the child on you care no longer qualifies because of their age.
My ex had to pay me directly a undesclosed sum for 5 years after my son had left home, because she tried to cheat the system.
LPC dept never goes away, even if they have to wait till you draw the pention, they will get it.
So this guys $3k I suggest is back pay on unpaid LPC dept.
It can be crippling, but they are your kids you pay for.

[MaxB]

AFAIK there is a formula for calculating child support based on income levels, number of children, new dependents etc. The problem is the DPB is pegged at so much per week. If the non-custodial parent earns heaps the it is possible to have IRD take more than the maximum weekly amount. They gobble up the excess and tell you to fuck off. I guess some of it goes to the families of shitbags who don't pay anything for their kids.

That can be avoided by getting a separation agreement drawn up when separating. Anyone with half a brain can see the kids would be better off.

But the desire to hurt the other partner often means there is no agreement so the custodial parent (usually the woman) goes on the DPB and feeds the other parent to the IRD.

[Jantar]

I believe the current child support formula maxs out at a little over $2000 per month. There is a formula thet takes the liable parent's salary, subtracts a basic living allowance (around $14000), then applies a percetnage to the remainder depending on the number of children. For the purpose of applying this formula there is a maximum salary of around $105,000. However this story is common.

When I was paying child support for my 3 kids (a few years ago now), the IRD were taking $1200 per month and my ex was receiving $450. I suggested to my ex that we come to a private arrangement whereby I would pay her $900 a month directly, and take over all of the 3 kids school and medical costs. She refused to even consider a private agreement. So the goverrnment ripped me off and paid her a pittance.

[sidecar bob]

Sounds like lies to me.

Absolutely not.
Example one, A couple, both doctors & on huge income, she has their two kids & a six figure income, he lives alone also with six figure income. He pays $3.500 per month, (a percentage of his income) & she is deemed to be worth giving about $40 per week based on her income, & thats all she gets.
Example two, total loser on the dole, he lives alone, she, total loser on the dole, with his six kids, both sit on their arses all day smoking pot & still sleeping together, he pays about $20 per week from his dole, which is taxpayers money anyway, she gets $100's (which doctor bloke paid in to)
Really fair aint it.
Thank Christ for private arrangments.

[Genie]

Interesting, just had conversation with my ex as his payments have hit $380 a week. He earns truckloads or is that boatloads???

I am on the DPB and I get extra payments each month, what he pays that is above DPB is forwarded on to me, no charges taken out but I do note that they pay me about 6 weeks after receiving it from him, interest they earn would be their cut. I have thought many times of having a private arrangement wiht him but due to his past fickleness I'm sticking with the status quo.

The system works way better than is used to but I still can't understand why because his girlfriend lives with him, earns her own wage (on the boat as well) and is in no way supported by him (financially), his child support is reduced by about $50 per week. He also agrees this is flawed but is happy to take advantage of this loop hole.

I'd guess that in your friends situation someone is not telling the whole story and as IRD send out statement each year (just got mine) both parties know how much is assesed for payment. I'm not sure who would have informed him of the 'it goes into the government coffers', hasn't been that way for about 6 years I think.

If his ex is on the DPB she would not receive all of it anyway. And I'm sure she wouldn't be stupid enough to tell him how much she gets, I'd never tell my ex as he'd use it as an excuse not pay for any extras along the way. Sports and motorbikes etc and things his children love to do and he helps out with.

[Genie]

Absolutely not.
Example one, A couple, both doctors & on huge income, she has their two kids & a six figure income, he lives alone also with six figure income. He pays $3.500 per month, (a percentage of his income) & she is deemed to be worth giving about $40 per week based on her income, & thats all she gets.
Example two, total loser on the dole, he lives alone, she, total loser on the dole, with his six kids, both sit on their arses all day smoking pot & still sleeping together, he pays about $20 per week from his dole, which is taxpayers money anyway, she gets $100's (which doctor bloke paid in to)
Really fair aint it.
Thank Christ for private arrangments.


sorry fella, it's not like this these days....they have made many changes over the last few years as in the past it wasn't a fair system at all.

[rustic101]

One word 'Bollocks'.

To the best of my knowledge IRD do not take a percentage for collecting Child Support.

What they do do is take any penalties and keep that. I have been getting raped by IRD for at least 15 years and while I do not object to paying Child Support I do object to their penalties and the way in which the bastards do not give a fat rats arse about the paying parents circumstances..

O well two more years to go then I will be $760pf better off.

Hate is not a word I use lightly but I HATE IRD as much as I HATE ACC and Dr N. Smith

[Katman]

sorry fella, it's not like this these days....they have made many changes over the last few years as in the past it wasn't a fair system at all.

You sound very naive.

God bless the DPB.

[Mom]

I heard a story yesterday about a guy who is paying $3000 a month in Child Maintenance - of which his ex-partner only recieves $650. He was told the rest goes toward admin fees (read, Government coffers) and offsetting the fact that many people are not paying any maintenance.

Am I the only one who thinks this is scandalous?

There are many stories of inequity in the system we currently have for the payment of child support in this country, I wont bore you with the sordid and financially crippling details of the one sided arrangement that I ended up with, cost me plenty.

The worst one is if either partner is on the DPB. In order to get the full entitlement they have to have child support coming from the other parent. So the non beneficiary parent is assessed and pays what is required, or else! The recipient parent receives $12.50 a week regardless of what is actually paid by the non custodial parent.

Had some friends in this situation, friggen appalling, he was paying an enourmous amount of money, she was getting almost none of it.

[rustic101]

What pissed me off the most was that I wrote to every man and his dog. Asking if a part of the payment could be put into a trust fund rather than being pissed up against the wall... Their reply was its hers and she is entitled to do what she wants with it... As a result I stopped paying for school camps etc in addition to CSP's and while a hard thing to do I have not talked to my children in over 12 months, despite emails texts etc... Not IRDs fault but just one of the many dilemmas of a paying parent.

[Pedrostt500]

Ah Child maintenace, The Screwing you get for the Screw you had.

[Genie]

no god bless fathers who pay towards the raising of their children, especially those born within a mariage or committed long term relationship.

I sound naive...coming from someone who knows 5/8ths of fuck all about it that's rich.

[Winston001]

Lot of confusion here regarding a pretty simple system. Child Support is a payment made by the non-custodial parent to the custodial parent to assist with supporting the children. Usually the person looking after the kids isn't working, or has a restricted ability to earn.

There is a formula in the Child Support Act - starts at 17% of the non-custodial parent's gross income (from memory). There is also a maximum amount.

The Department of Social Welfare (now WINZ) used to collect Child Maintenence but were hopeless at it. That is why IRD was given the job in about 1990. They still miss a lot even so.

Many many parents who have their children with them live purely on the Domestic Purposes Benefit. Where does the DPB come from......?? You and me, the taxpayer. So Child Support is merely a contribution from the other parent to repay members of the public. The smallest amount is $10/wk and plenty pay at that level.

If the Liable Parent Contribution exceeds the DPB then all of the extra money is passed on to the custodial parent. But this is a rare situation.

Parents who are not in the benefit system are allowed to negotiate their own payments and ignore the LPC formula.

Most of the anger at IRD over these payments is either because of the very tough penalties for non-payment, or because of residual bitterness between the parents.

[Katman]

no god bless fathers who pay towards the raising of their children, especially those born within a mariage or committed long term relationship.

I sound naive...coming from someone who knows 5/8ths of fuck all about it that's rich.

5/8ths of fuck all?

I've been with my partner for 25 years - married for 10.

I'd put it at 7/8ths of fuck all, at the very least.

[Usarka]

Hate is not a word I use lightly but I HATE IRD as much as I HATE ACC and Dr N. Smith

Fuck is the IRD that bad???

[Genie]

5/8ths of fuck all?

I've been with my partner for 25 years - married for 10.

I'd put it at 7/8ths of fuck all, at the very least.

:lol:....nice committment there. Good to see. NOt all last the distance. So you have 7/8th's worth of understanding of the Child Support system based on your lasting relationship.

[Katman]

:lol:....nice committment there. Good to see. NOt all last the distance. So you have 7/8th's worth of understanding of the Child Support system based on your lasting relationship.

How about...........

DPB = I'd rather watch The Young and the Restless and Days of our Lives than get my lazy arse off the couch and find a job?

[Mom]

How about...........

DPB = I'd rather watch The Young and the Restless and Days of our Lives than get my lazy arse off the couch and find a job?

Generalisations like that are going to earn you infractions, I feel it in my water :yes:

Winston001 is also guilty of the same offense if he thinks the current system is fair. It is so not fair it is not funny! The way it can and is manipulated is appaling and so damaging for all sorts of reasons.

[Owl]

How about...........

DPB = I'd rather watch The Young and the Restless and Days of our Lives than get my lazy arse off the couch and find a job?

You really aren't up with the play are you?. The Young & the Restless went off air months ago, permanently! Housewives were up in arms and there were calls for the resignation of TVNZ's daytime programming director:laugh:

[Genie]

How about...........

DPB = I'd rather watch The Young and the Restless and Days of our Lives than get my lazy arse off the couch and find a job?

ahhh...but you generalise based on what? Who is to say raising children isnt a job? A nanny is employed as a nanny to rise someones' children at a cost of average $350.00 per week based on a friend of mine's income for nannying for 30hours per week.

sitting on a fat arse being to lazy to get a job...FFS, what bullshit.

[Genie]

You really aren't up with the play are you?. The Young & the Restless went off air months ago, permanently! Housewives were up in arms and there were calls for the resignation of TVNZ's daytime programming director:laugh:

so, is a housewive then to lazy to get of her arse and get a job. hmmmm, being married and not working is fine, being not married, raising chldren from a marriage and claiming DPB (for which m ex-husband more than pays for in his child support) is lazy!!!!!

[sidecar bob]

sorry fella, it's not like this these days....they have made many changes over the last few years as in the past it wasn't a fair system at all.

Uuh, been involved up until very recently, thats how it was.

[sidecar bob]

no god bless fathers who pay towards the raising of their children, especially those born within a mariage or committed long term relationship.

I sound naive...coming from someone who knows 5/8ths of fuck all about it that's rich.
Katman? Rich? Havent you seen the old clunker of a bike he has to ride. I doubt he's rich, its an old nail.

[Mudfart]

yep thats why, even if he has an absolute crap relationship now with his ex, I'm sure between the screams he could blurt out to her he is willing to pay 1000 or even 2000 a month off the IRD radar. If your on it and paying child support, I would seriously leave the fucking country, it will be the wisest financial decision of your life.
They favour the female so much, its not funny. I know dads that have the kids 50% of the time or more, and still pay maintainence to the mothers, coz IRD says so..... Im still paying 20 a week, for a mistake they made 5years ago. Ive got 2 more years to finally pay the fucker off too. I told them I didnt have a job anymore but they said they couldnt readjust the amount til the end of the financial year, which turned out to be 3500$ away. Then wen they did, and I didnt have to pay CS anymore, they started charging interest on the 3500 I "owed". Went upto 6000$. Will take 6 years to pay off, 2 to go!!!!! Funny thing is, the ex isnt collecting it, it was a figure pulled out of someones arse, so, who the fuck is getting it? the MP's thats who the FUCK!!!

[Love my Bonnie]

WOW, I cant believe how much child support some people pay.

I get $67 per month from my ex, and he moans his tits off about paying that.

[Genie]

IRD and their penalties are freaking nasty. From my experience, if you make an arrangement with them and stick to it, they do wipe all penalities. well, thy did for me and not once but twice.

[Katman]

IRD and their penalties are freaking nasty. From my experience, if you make an arrangement with them and stick to it, they do wipe all penalities. well, thy did for me and not once but twice.

Were you too busy watching telly?

[Genie]

hey.....i wish.
I'd love to spend the day lazing around watching crap on the tv. But alas, I have washing to wash, hang out, fold and put away. I also have dishes to clean, a house to clean (dont' mention boys and the toilet) I've also got lunches to make, kids to get to school, trees to chainsaw, lawns to mow, veges to grow gardens to weed, baking to to baked, dinner to be prepared, children to take to dancing, basketball, soccer, netball, rugby, tennis, brownies. Oh and sometimes they like to go play with their friends. I've also got to repaint the house, make sure there is food in cupboards, get up at 2.46 am when daniel has a bad dream or chloe has a sore tummy, make sure they have clean sheets on their beds. oh yeah and dont' forget making them some new pants for winter so their legs don't get too cold when we walk to school each morning. Oh yeah and the times I take them on school trips or even help out with spelling or maths in their classroom. somewhere in there I find time to burn out my stresses at the gym, exercise the dog, clean the fly shit of the ceiling and clean the freaking windows. Since the twins started school I gave up smoking and bought the bike, much better for me and I try to get out 3 rides a week while they at school, oh yeah and I work in the weekends at a coffee bar so I have some extra dollars to take the darlings to the movies, or swimming or somewhere fun they wish to go. Evenings would be nice for tv....but alas I'm wasting time on here blurping shit...sit down is over, dishes to wash, washing to fold and think I may also do some work for my artist friend.....I work freaking hard raising my children, on my own and put in so much effort...not all on the DPB are shithead fat arses, some actually do take their 'job' as parent seriously and work damn hard to make it all work.

[Katman]

hey.....i wish.
I'd love to spend the day lazing around watching crap on the tv. But alas, I have washing to wash, hang out, fold and put away. I also have dishes to clean, a house to clean (dont' mention boys and the toilet) I've also got lunches to make, kids to get to school, trees to chainsaw, lawns to mow, veges to grow gardens to weed, baking to to baked, dinner to be prepared, children to take to dancing, basketball, soccer, netball, rugby, tennis, brownies. Oh and sometimes they like to go play with their friends. I've also got to repaint the house, make sure there is food in cupboards, get up at 2.46 am when daniel has a bad cream or chloe has a sore tuthmy, make sure they have clean sheets on their beds. oh yeah and dont' forget making them some new pants for winter so their legs don't get too cold when we walk to school each morning. Oh yeah and the times I take them on school trips or even help out with spelling or maths in their classroom. somewhere in there I find time to burn out my stresses at the gym, exercise the dog, clean the fly shit of the ceiling and clean the freaking windows. Since the twins started school I gave up smoking and bought the bike, much better for me and I try to get out 3 rides a week while they at school, oh yeah and I work in the weekends at a coffee bar so I have some extra dollars to take the darlings to the movies, or swimming or somewhere fun they wish to go. Evenings would be nice for tv....but alas I'm wasting time on here blurping shit...sit down is over, dishes to wash, washing to fold and think I may also do some work for my artist friend.....I work freaking hard raising my children, on my own and put in so much effort...not all on the DPB are shithead fat arses, some actually do take their 'job' as parent seriously and work damn hard to make it all work.

That sounds remarkably like the scenario many parents face - who both still find time to bring in an honest wage.

[JATZ]

hey.....i wish.
I'd love to spend the day lazing around watching crap on the tv. But alas, I have washing to wash, hang out, fold and put away. I also have dishes to clean, a house to clean (dont' mention boys and the toilet) I've also got lunches to make, kids to get to school, trees to chainsaw, lawns to mow, veges to grow gardens to weed, baking to to baked, dinner to be prepared, children to take to dancing, basketball, soccer, netball, rugby, tennis, brownies. Oh and sometimes they like to go play with their friends. I've also got to repaint the house, make sure there is food in cupboards, get up at 2.46 am when daniel has a bad cream or chloe has a sore tuthmy, make sure they have clean sheets on their beds. oh yeah and dont' forget making them some new pants for winter so their legs don't get too cold when we walk to school each morning. Oh yeah and the times I take them on school trips or even help out with spelling or maths in their classroom. somewhere in there I find time to burn out my stresses at the gym, exercise the dog, clean the fly shit of the ceiling and clean the freaking windows. Since the twins started school I gave up smoking and bought the bike, much better for me and I try to get out 3 rides a week while they at school, oh yeah and I work in the weekends at a coffee bar so I have some extra dollars to take the darlings to the movies, or swimming or somewhere fun they wish to go. Evenings would be nice for tv....but alas I'm wasting time on here blurping shit...sit down is over, dishes to wash, washing to fold and think I may also do some work for my artist friend.....I work freaking hard raising my children, on my own and put in so much effort...not all on the DPB are shithead fat arses, some actually do take their 'job' as parent seriously and work damn hard to make it all work.

God I'm glad I only work a 45hr week :D

[Toaster]

I seriously doubt that is accurate surely. Only 20% remains after costs? Come on.

[Toaster]

hey.....i wish.
.....................................lots and lots of typing.............................. more typing..........................

Ever heard of paragraphs??!!

[Mudfart]

in my scenario with child support payments, they refused to wipe the penalty interest charges on the phantom overdue monies, however as soon as i got another job, i rang them to arrange payments, and they stopped the interest accrueing any higher! Fucking generous bastards.... the new job i got was only paying 10.50 an hour. Thank fuck after 3 months of slaving my ass off laying concrete and topsoil etc... i got a rise to 12.35$ an hour. it meant i still had to live on the $20 pack of 60 mad butcher sausages, that if you cut them open, they had bits of blue plastic in them for filling. Nothing beats plastic for taste or curing hunger pains.
And yes, I did take the letter they sent me outlining the error in legislation that, "tied their hands" to the "honourable" murray mccully. Although i only got to explain it to his "legal secretary", who by her blank response, had no idea.

[Katman]

I seriously doubt that is accurate surely. Only 20% remains after costs? Come on.

And you wonder why I'm so incensed?

[dogsnbikes]

Its a shite system........my partner pay's through the nose too IRD and her X who has the kids gets zich nudda nufing cos he would rather stay on the DPB than get a job,and still on top we pay for the extras for the girls just right now she has taken food down to them coz they home alone(they age 16 & 14) and no food in the house

so once again the workers supporting the wankers sad thing is we aren't the first to do so and we sure the hell wont be the last

[Toaster]

And you wonder why I'm incensed?

Crikey what a criminal ripoff!

[GOONR]

Back in the UK I used to pay one third of my wage to the Child Support Agency. That was before tax. You couldn't even have a private agreement, the CSA could over ride any private arrangement that you had and could even over ride court orders that had been in place for years.

The mother & child received nowhere near what I was paying, the CSA took most of it as 'Admin fees'.

[MsKABC]

The recipient of child support must apply for child support if they apply for a benefit - no option for a private agreement. Child support offsets the DPB. If the partner liable for child support pays more than the value of the DPB, the custodial parent gets the excess. Child support must be paid by the 20th of each month (for the month prior), and is paid out by IRD on the 7th of the following months, so there is a time lag of 6 weeks initially, but then it comes every month.

Don't believe everything you hear.

[allycatz]

Well in my case im having to pay arrears in Child support for a period of time that my kids were in my care. My teens spent a year with their Dad and moved back with me when he shifted to Auckland. All good I rang IRD, arranged family assistance and told Child support on phone kids were back. 18 months later during a three month stint of unemployment, I went on DPB. Therein it gets messy. Someone at IRD decided I had only just got kids back and decided based on my income I hadn't paid enough for them and get a bill for $3k. I ring up and nice lady says 'oops, send a letter'. I did and they replied beccause I hadn't notified them in writing when kids came back they consider kids stil with Dad, but, I could object within 28 days. So I write in again and decision is turned down again. Next step, family court. Go to lawyer who agrees situation is ludicrous but it will cost me up to $2.5k to take to court. Apply for legal aid but I earn just over the limit. Am now paying arrears weekly out my wages. So....I can prove kids Dad was in Auckland, I can prove kids were at College. Ird accepts I was receiving Family assistance cos its okay to arrange things over the phone with that Dept. Unfortunately not with the Child Support Office. All my correspondence from them has said 'Please contact us immediately of change'. Didn't say in writing and IRD wont budge from this. I am at a total loss as where to go to from here because I am paying an ex money for kids he didn't have! He pays child support still for our daughter still at College but really Im paying money to him and he gives it back???

[Winston001]

Winston001 is also guilty of the same offense if he thinks the current system is fair. It is so not fair it is not funny! The way it can and is manipulated is appalling and so damaging for all sorts of reasons.

Fair enough - examples please? In a nutshell there is no perfect system for child maintenance because every family is different. Circumstances change and people expect IRD to know about and instantly react to every change. It isn't possible, so most countries (to the best of my knowledge) adopt a formula which aims to be fair in general. Please always bear in mind that many families survive on the DPB which is paid for by the taxpayer. The contribution by liable parents to pay back the taxpayer is modest.

[Winston001]

Prior to the LPC scheme, the custodial parent had to apply to the Family Court for an order of child maintenance. That took a long time, tied up the courts, and was basically a waste of taxpayer money. The formula system is far better and you do have rights to object and for review. Problems: quite often separated parents make their own agreement which is great until one needs to apply for a benefit. The agreement is then suspended which can leave on party feeling bitter.Its not uncommon for a distressed man to leave the home and everything in the hands of his wife for the sake of the children. In his mind he's paid forward his obligation and that is a fair view. However the LPC system doesn't recognise this and it might be 2 or 3 years later that IRD catch up with him by which time a huge debt has mounted up. The Court can amend the liability but its a costly and stressful process. Split child custody is common and a source of anger. If the children spend 40% of their time with you then the other parent has to pay you money. But if they are on a benefit and you are working, you'll receive $12.50/wk and have to pay $100/wk or more. I've never found a solution to this unless the parents get on very well and work together.

[Katman]

Prior to the LPC scheme, the custodial parent had to apply to the Family Court for an order of child maintenance. That took a long time, tied up the courts, and was basically a waste of taxpayer money. The formula system is far better and you do have rights to object and for review. Problems: quite often separated parents make their own agreement which is great until one needs to apply for a benefit. The agreement is then suspended which can leave on party feeling bitter.Its not uncommon for a distressed man to leave the home and everything in the hands of his wife for the sake of the children. In his mind he's paid forward his obligation and that is a fair view. However the LPC system doesn't recognise this and it might be 2 or 3 years later that IRD catch up with him by which time a huge debt has mounted up. The Court can amend the liability but its a costly and stressful process. Split child custody is common and a source of anger. If the children spend 40% of their time with you then the other parent has to pay you money. But if they are on a benefit and you are working, you'll receive $12.50/wk and have to pay $100/wk or more. I've never found a solution to this unless the parents get on very well and work together.

I'm more interested to know why there is such a huge discrepancy between what IRD charges a person and what their ex-partner receives.

[2wheeldrifter]

Surely there must be a formula for working a close to real cost of bring up a child, split in 4 groups, 1-5yrs, 6-10yrs 11-15yrs and then 16 to 19yrs.

The system does suck... you earn good money, well your near better off not too. it is 17% for one child then 24% for two which I pay. Thats of your gross, so your PAYE tax is in there formula to pay child support.

Hang on shouldn't it be that you take child support from the money I actually take home in my hand and not inclued my tax that has gone to the goverment? It's our job to be fair!
Already the IRD wankers have ripped me off and our relationship has just started.... (been 2 years now)

[allycatz]

Hang on shouldn't it be that you take child support from the money I actually take home in my hand and not inclued my tax that has gone to the goverment? It's our job to be fair!


Oh I so agree with that statement.....I argued that point with WINZ when I was working part time and still receiving a portion of a benefit....got told 'thats a dam good wage, and you are getting more than some of us in the office'. Yeah I said but do you guys work 12 days straight, two weekends and two stat days to get it? And as I pointed out my $850 net wage for two weeks had to have two weeks rent taken out of $700

[sidecar bob]

I'm more interested to know why there is such a huge discrepancy between what IRD charges a person and what their ex-partner receives.

Because the payer & the reciever both have the amounts calculated on their income. And because shit attracts shit, as per my earlier post, it becomes unfair.

[sinfull]

I'm more interested to know why there is such a huge discrepancy between what IRD charges a person and what their ex-partner receives. WE are in NZ and because NZers are an apethetic bunch we let things like this happen !

It destroyed my career ! It however also destroyed any sort of tax earn the government may have recieved from me, as i went underground as far as earnings go for 13 yrs ! Came out the other end owing 3 k in back maint !

[raftn]

My ex wife lives in a 1.2million dollar house w, they also own a 480,000$ boat, I live in a rented two bedroon apartment, and pay $1200 a month in child support..........explain to me how this is fucking fair! She point blank refuse to let me have the kids one night extr a fornight as this would reduce her child support........and she wonders why i get a bit pissed when she drops the kids off on her way to the airport for a weekend in Fiji! Thew whole thing is a crock of shit!

[allycatz]

Have you applied for a reassessment? There are several grounds on which to do so

[raftn]

Have you applied for a reassessment? There are several grounds on which to do so

Of course I did.............but to quote IRD, "There is no reson for departure"...............Because we don'r have a 50/50 arrangment, Her income is not assesed. Only mine, and assets don't come into it.

[2wheeldrifter]

Have you applied for a reassessment? There are several grounds on which to do so

When I rang, it was pretty much we don't give a shit attitude in your predicament, we ONLY take into account your mortgage. HP's for anything, Furniture,car whatever not there problem, it's my fault I shouldn't have them. Hearing that it could take up to 3months to a year to sort out I didn't have that luxury to wait as ........... mortgage still had to be paided and IRD still wanted there money...

Stage two... it's our job to STILL be fair! god I'm loving this system, get this overwhelming feeling that I am a criminal and am getting punished because my marriage split!:shit:

I feel and hear what your saying Raftn.... :angry:

[Bald Eagle]

When I rang, it was pretty much we don't give a shit attitude in your predicament, we ONLY take into account your mortgage. HP's for anything, Furniture,car whatever not there problem, it's my fault I shouldn't have them. Hearing that it could take up to 3months to a year to sort out I didn't have that luxury to wait as ........... mortgage still had to be paided and IRD still wanted there money...

Stage two... it's our job to STILL be fair! god I'm loving this system, get this overwhelming feeling that I am a criminal and am getting punished because my marriage split!:shit:

I feel and hear what your saying Raftn.... :angry:

Go underground, if possible join the green economy the great social engineers who art in parliament will punish any for deviating from the norm 1 x marriage 2.5 kids etc etc

[allycatz]

I do sympathize....I keep getting the 'we are so sorry but you didnt put anything in writing and those are the rules'. What happened to good old fashioned truth and facts....I don't understand how I can prove kids were in my care and yet still have to pay an ex 650kms away who never had them for the 18 months they are referring to

[MaxB]

Difficulties faced by people in this thread are exactly why 2 of my best friends are oveseas.

One left for a job that pays 120k more than he was getting in NZ. Both left their ex s everything but still the IRD wanted more.

One is a ratbag and has started again with a new family and gives his young ones nothing but the other has to bribe his greedy ex to send his kids over to him and somehow he gets money to them in NZ. The irony is that they are getting way more $$$ than if he had stayed in NZ.

I guess the IRD are after them but they only have to pay if they come back and they are not coming back.

[civil]

You do not need a lawer to take a matter to Family Court, or any court for that matter.

I have only ever asked one question of IR "why do I have to pay?". I have never had a satisfactory answer and so I have never paid them a cent !!! It dose not make them go away but has made me re-strucutre my affairs in such a way that they can not get to it. However most people are not willing to do what is required. It is easier to bend over and just take whats coming. Sort of like the ACC. How many have stopped licencing their bikes?

[2wheeldrifter]

You do not need a lawer to take a matter to Family Court, or any court for that matter.

I have only ever asked one question of IR "why do I have to pay?". I have never had a satisfactory answer and so I have never paid them a cent !!! It dose not make them go away but has made me re-strucutre my affairs in such a way that they can not get to it. However most people are not willing to do what is required. It is easier to bend over and just take whats coming. Sort of like the ACC. How many have stopped licencing their bikes?

Not sure if I get what your sayiing Civil, you are paying nothing towards your kids? IRD is just sending you nasty letters?
Why do you have to pay!? it's your legal obligation to support your kids that's why!

The IRD can overrule any court, a writen agreemet passed through the lawyers can be overruled by the IRD....... Once she goes to the IRD, any writen agreement is gone. It's good for falling back on when the shit hit's the fan and you need the police or who ever to enforce what the other isn't doing because it's down on paper. My agreement that was writen up by us and our lawyers..... meant didly shit once she went to the IRD.

So guys with writen agreements... if you really piss her off and think your safe, your not!

[Mudfart]

My way of supporting my kids is thinking of their financial future.
See my monster in law, and missus love pokies. Every floating cent goes on it. If I was to pay CS to them, the kids would be walking to school in barefeet with no lunches every day.
My money is being put where my kids can get it when I die and they are old enough to get right the fuck away from the idiots.
Its an investment in their future, the court will never order them to stay off the pokies.

[davebullet]

If the IRD are creaming the "adminstration component" if there is any - I don't know - by that much then something is wrong. I'd recommend anyone in that situation to follow it up. You can opt to have IRD execute a private agreement which allows for more than the salary capped approx $2,000 payment.

I pay privately. I am lucky in that Mum keeps the kids in good condition and has no nasty habits making me feel my money is going elsewhere. Sadly, I think our relationship for managing this is the exception rather than the norm.

[kwaka_crasher]

If the IRD are creaming the "adminstration component" if there is any - I don't know - by that much then something is wrong. I'd recommend anyone in that situation to follow it up. You can opt to have IRD execute a private agreement which allows for more than the salary capped approx $2,000 payment.

I pay privately. I am lucky in that Mum keeps the kids in good condition and has no nasty habits making me feel my money is going elsewhere. Sadly, I think our relationship for managing this is the exception rather than the norm.

You can only bypass IRD if the cutodial parent is not on a benefit. Otherwise, you pay based on income and the custodial parent gets paid at the applicable rates regardless of what you contribute.

[Winston001]

I'm more interested to know why there is such a huge discrepancy between what IRD charges a person and what their ex-partner receives.

Ok, as a general rule, liable parents pay much less than the domestic purposes benefit. The DPB is calculated by WINZ and whoever is in government to provide a subsistence living for one parent and children. Its a lot more than most liable parents are able to pay. The discrepancy is made up by you and I - the taxpayers.

[Katman]

Ok, as a general rule, liable parents pay much less than the domestic purposes benefit. The DPB is calculated by WINZ and whoever is in government to provide a subsistence living for one parent and children. Its a lot more than most liable parents are able to pay. The discrepancy is made up by you and I - the taxpayers.

Not quite on the same wavelength, methinks.

The example of my mate (who is definately not in arrears or paying penalties) who pays IRD $600 per month while his ex receives $380...........

Who's pocketing the other $220 per month?

[Drew]

When I first split up with my ex I paid more per week, than she got in total. And I mean total. It's fuckin wrong when there are guys on the dole paying ten dollars a week per kid, and their EX gets more.

Essentially I was payin child support for a bunch of kids that weren't mine.

[Katman]

Essentially I was payin child support for a bunch of kids that weren't mine.

Are you sure they weren't?

[Laava]

My mate John was in this position. When they separated, he had to pay a huge amount to Winz, as he is a big earner, which was far more than she was paid by them. He tried to make an arrangement with her but she was ex winz and deliberately did it to fuck him over. Sounds very petty doesn't it esp as she is the loser both financially and socially as her daughter thinks she is a bitch as do most, if not all, of their mutual friends. This happened about 8yrs ago.

[Mudfart]

hey guys, if I move to Oz do I still have to pay? How about England, I got a UK passport? Would changing my name by deedpoll in the new country help? All else fails, french foreign legion? Canada?

[Mudfart]

oh yeah if your sure the kids arent yours, go get a DNA test done, it costs like 4-600 bucks, but once you can prove it, take it to a court and get all your money back!

[rustic101]

There are virtually hundreds of reciprocal agreements between NZ and other countries. In cases that do not IR place an Attachment Order with Customs for Boarder Alerts. In short you will be detained on arrival or departure and 'forced' to cough up or make an arrangement.

[Maki]

I believe the current child support formula maxs out at a little over $2000 per month. There is a formula thet takes the liable parent's salary, subtracts a basic living allowance (around $14000), then applies a percetnage to the remainder depending on the number of children. For the purpose of applying this formula there is a maximum salary of around $105,000. However this story is common.

When I was paying child support for my 3 kids (a few years ago now), the IRD were taking $1200 per month and my ex was receiving $450. I suggested to my ex that we come to a private arrangement whereby I would pay her $900 a month directly, and take over all of the 3 kids school and medical costs. She refused to even consider a private agreement. So the goverrnment ripped me off and paid her a pittance.

She should be shot for pig headed stupidity. Good riddance.

[Pascal]

ahhh...but you generalise based on what? Who is to say raising children isnt a job? A nanny is employed as a nanny to rise someones' children at a cost of average $350.00 per week based on a friend of mine's income for nannying for 30hours per week

Taking care of kids is hard work and required dedication. I can't argue that, I've seen how much some days can take out of my wife. My thought is this. The nanny is paid by somebody who has chosen to pay her wages. Can the same be said of everyone on the DPB? Or how about this. I work my ass off, 10 to 16 hours a day for six days a week. Yeah, it's not child care. But I rarely get to see mine because I'm working to earn a living so my family can have a roof over their heads and whatever they need. I know that I sure as hell can't afford a 2010 Ninja. Something about that just annoys me a little.

[FROSTY]

The bit I just cannot get my head around is how the costs to raise a child are asessed. Its easy when for example a couple breaks up and theres one child staying with one parent.(child A) But if the non custodial parent has another child (child B) then it all goes out the window. Somehow their formula calculates that child A costs $200 a week to feed/clothe etc yet child B) costs $25 a week --How on earth can they get that number

[Winston001]

The bit I just cannot get my head around is how the costs to raise a child are asessed. Its easy when for example a couple breaks up and theres one child staying with one parent.(child A) But if the non custodial parent has another child (child B) then it all goes out the window. Somehow their formula calculates that child A costs $200 a week to feed/clothe etc yet child B) costs $25 a week --How on earth can they get that number

The answer is that the Child Support formula is a rough and ready calculation designed to fit all. From memory it was drawn from the British model which had an 80% collection rate in the 1990s.

A liable parent on $50k would pay $124.50/wk for one child and $166.00/wk for two children. That is an extra $41 for the second child.

The reason the second child isn't a lot more is because the basic costs of having a household do not change with one or two extra children. The rent is the same, as is the phone, insurance etc etc. So the additional cost of an extra child is relatively small.

Bear in mind that the LPC formula is just a system set up for simplicity. It isn't fair in every situation but there is a right to ask the Court to adjust the payment. For example if a father has given the whole house to his wife so she has a home for the children, his liability can be reduced. I've seen this happen.

[Winston001]

The example of my mate (who is definately not in arrears or paying penalties) who pays IRD $600 per month while his ex receives $380...........

Who's pocketing the other $220 per month?


When I first split up with my ex I paid more per week, than she got in total. And I mean total. It's fuckin wrong


My mate John was in this position. When they separated, he had to pay a huge amount to Winz, as he is a big earner, which was far more than she was paid by them.

Ok. I am at a complete loss to explain the above. I have never heard of or met a man who pays more Liable Parent Contribution to IRD than his wife/partner receives. I have always understood that if the payment exceeds the DPB the extra money gets passed on to the mother.

The exception is where there are penalties which I think are kept by IRD to partly compensate the taxpayer. Happy to be proved wrong - can anyone point to IRD policy or something?

[Lissa]

I think the perception of who should be the main care giver should NOW change. When I was young my Dad was the breadwinner, working long hours and generally doing blokey things, and not really having alot to do with me (just his generation) My mum stayed at home and looked after four kids, baked biscuits and did the housework. If they had broken up then of course I would have gone with my mum and dad would have to have paid child support.

Its totally different now, hardly anyone should be on the DPB - I see nothing wrong with solo mums going to work once the child is five AS LONG as they can get child care for free.... or the father of the children has the exact responsibility to find or pay for Childcare so she can go out to work and can stand on her own two feet. (and visa versa if the father has custody) It takes two to make a child and it is the responsibility of BOTH parents to raise that child.

[FROSTY]

It takes two to make a child and it is the responsibility of BOTH parents to raise that child.
Now that is a whole other discussion.

[Winston001]

It takes two to make a child and it is the responsibility of BOTH parents to raise that child.

Nope nope nope - it takes a village to raise a child - I read it on the net so it must be true!! So if you live in a city, bad luck. Move to Ekatahuna.

[Forest]

My mates refer to child maintenance payments as STDs.

Sexually Transmitted Debt.

[PrincessBandit]

My mates refer to child maintenance payments as STDs.

Sexually Transmitted Debt.

Charming. Does he refer to his own kids as such? (if he has any). Tbh, all kids basically put us in debt - even the ones still in a house where mum and dad are in a stable relationship.

[Bald Eagle]

Not quite on the same wavelength, methinks.

The example of my mate (who is definately not in arrears or paying penalties) who pays IRD $600 per month while his ex receives $380...........

Who's pocketing the other $220 per month?

The extra $220 per month is the state penalty for separation. Financial equity is overruled by social engineering.

[Mudfart]

lol STD's! so, if i move to Oz and work my ass off, I wont get stung unless i try to get back into NZ? why would i try crawl back up the arsehole?

[St_Gabriel]

Sorry to tell you mudfart, Aussie and NZ have reciprocal agreements, they will ask you for the money then if you choose not to pay, they politely ask the ATO (Australian tax office) to garnishee your wages. Or at least thats how it works in reverse.

[Mudfart]

how about UK? I have a Brit passport, and can I live and work in Canada with it?

[Winston001]

Ok. I am at a complete loss to explain the above. I have never heard of or met a man who pays more Liable Parent Contribution to IRD than his wife/partner receives. I have always understood that if the payment exceeds the DPB the extra money gets passed on to the mother.

The exception is where there are penalties which I think are kept by IRD to partly compensate the taxpayer. Happy to be proved wrong - can anyone point to IRD policy or something?

In the absence of any reply to the above I contacted Child Support today. They confirmed that where there is an overpayment, the extra money goes to the custodial parent. So people who say they pay more than their ex-partners benefit but the money disappears, need to look for another explanation.

I'm not suggesting anyone is making up stories, child support can get complicated for the payer particularly if a payment is missed.

The nub of the matter is IRD do not keep any extra money (leaving aside penalties), nor do they charge admin fees.

[kit]

In the absence of any reply to the above I contacted Child Support today. They confirmed that where there is an overpayment, the extra money goes to the custodial parent. So people who say they pay more than their ex-partners benefit but the money disappears, need to look for another explanation.

I'm not suggesting anyone is making up stories, child support can get complicated for the payer particularly if a payment is missed.

The nub of the matter is IRD do not keep any extra money (leaving aside penalties), nor do they charge admin fees.



If that is true then that would mean the that extra money is taken into account as earning's over and above the DPB which must result in it affecting that persons benefit. As a working mother, when it comes to the end of the yr, i have to take into account (apparently) my extra earnings (child support) the minimum amount that i get (If I get any), because as far as they are concerned it is classed as part of my earnings. But on the other side of it IRD also tell you not to take it into account and rely on it as I may not recieve it! Yet they want you to estimate it for your family assistance entitlement.

Coming to an agreement outside of IRD is the way to go, if both parties can come to agreement that way they know exactly where they stand.