Getting riders to races

[takitimu]

Kinda leading on from the Scrambles debate I guess, we've started doing some regular races in the North & learning it's not easy to get numbers :), just curious what things people on here reckon make for races they want to be part of ?.
( We're running wed night Maize MX & getting 30 odd, tracks similar to the scrambles, also monthly MX on dedicated tracks but smaller numbers & they are alot more work ).

[Sammikins]

advertise this kind of stuff on facebook groups, seems word of mouth is the only way i find out about events, maybe they just need to get in peoples faces with advertising a little bit??

[scott411]

its tough, you need to get a reputation for running good events, all events started off small, just some have been running for so many years that it becomes a must do,

i know with the Puke club stuff we have been getting more and more riders to club days, about 6 years ago we averaged about 120-140 per event, now we are more like 200-225 a clubday,

things are sometimes a bit hard, take this time of year where there are a lot of events on, i think this year people are picking and choosing what they do a bit more as there are more as money is a lot tighter than it was 18 months ago.

i am suprised that Tony struggled a bit with numbers, but I for one can never make Saturday meetings (not that i make many sunday ones either that i do not run) as i work most Saturday's and will not take the morning off, maybe there are alot more people like me, i know 2 day trail rides nearly always have more people sundays,

as for advertising them, it is a bit hard at the moment, there are a few internet sites worth using like this one, and silver-bullet, and there are a few dedicated ride wites like where2ride.co.nz and myrides, but i think you still need to use the magazines, and posters in the motorcycles shops a well,

[Crisis management]

I don't think it's just off road stuff, in the last 6 months I've seen a lot less guys turning up for adventure bike rides as well, a number of my friends are finding the cash isn't available and picking one or two things to do rather than something every weekend, I suspect we have to just plug away at stuff this year and hopefully it will improve for next summer.

[L Rider]

Sundays are the easiest day for us to ride - having young kids and both working fulltime means Saturday is the day to get bikes ready, housework done etc etc leaving Sunday as 'riding day'.
I think money (lack of it) has hit alot of people and they just cannot afford to ride/race like they use to.
Having young kids means we look for more of the 'family' outtings so we can all ride.

Facebook seems to be a good way of getting word out there of all kinds of events.
Most things we find out from through word of mouth, Kiwibiker or checking out Silver Bullet

[SpikedPunch]

Yup, money is the big thing :( Not that I'm meant to be riding at the moment anyway. There are a lot of events on this time of year, and when you're low on cash you're more likely to go to events that are closer (less gas $), and better value for money (get more riding done for less $ at a trail ride vs a race, especially if there's MNZ fees).
Not a solution really, just an explaination :shutup: That being said, I would have really liked to ride at the grass paddock thing, sandpit crew always put on great events. Unfortunately I'm not really meant to be riding at the moment, thought having my first tentative ride back at a race would be a bad idea, even if it is a fun thing I'm dumb and competitive and likely to throw myself off the bike in that situation :) I'll wait till I'm all better or at least heavily braced to go flying across the track (bike not necessarily attached...:bleh:)

[takitimu]

Thanks everyone :), sounds like it's boiling down to.

Publicity - Facebook, Shop posters, Magazines, kiwibiker, silver bullet, where2ride, myrides
Reputation - It takes time to build trust in events.
Money - It's tight all around @ the moment, so pick & choose & racing is less riding time vs say a trail ride.
Timing - Saturday is not that popular ;)

I'd be fascinated at why Puke managed to grow so much, is it making things family friendly, the social side, or is it really just about the racing & publicity ?.

One thing that does interest me is pulling the riders who are quick at trail rides / fun nights, but won't race, or is that trying to achieve the unachievable ?.

[scott411]

there is a number of reasons why puke grew, to much to write here, but the basics were keeping the masses happy, which includes telling off the dickheads, not making the track to easy or to hard, and running something for everyone, one of the main reasons is a tight group which is the main committee work together and keep getting better, everyone makes mistakes but when you make them over and over again people get sick of it.

[4stroke]

Thanks everyone :), sounds like it's boiling down to.

Publicity - Facebook, Shop posters, Magazines, kiwibiker, silver bullet, where2ride, myrides
Reputation - It takes time to build trust in events.
Money - It's tight all around @ the moment, so pick & choose & racing is less riding time vs say a trail ride.
Timing - Saturday is not that popular ;)

I'd be fascinated at why Puke managed to grow so much, is it making things family friendly, the social side, or is it really just about the racing & publicity ?.

One thing that does interest me is pulling the riders who are quick at trail rides / fun nights, but won't race, or is that trying to achieve the unachievable ?.

i think for those riders who are fast at trail rides it might be more of a mindset about mx etc, they think they wont be any good etc, for example i can ride good in the forest aand tighter tracks, but a mx track and im hopeless and it also doesnt help that im not a fan of jumping etc, but get in the bush on second and thrid gear terrain rolling jump im fine lol dumb aye, plus the fact of breaking bones is starting to get to me lolol. theres alot of good riders at trail rides who refuse to race just on the fact as they think they wont enjoy it.

[mfordy]

Yup, money is the big thing :( Not that I'm meant to be riding at the moment anyway. There are a lot of events on this time of year, and when you're low on cash you're more likely to go to events that are closer (less gas $), and better value for money (get more riding done for less $ at a trail ride vs a race, especially if there's MNZ fees).

Not sure money is the biggest issue. More about timing and location for the guys I ride with.
For example, the weekend just gone was Pukekohe Club Day and also Slater MotoX. Both events were closer to us than the Sandpit event.
My personnel preference is the motoX type events as I feel they are actually safer than some of the trail rides I've been too. Sure there is a greater risk of broken bones etc but at least you are in a controlled environment with riders of similar ability and where "idiots" get removed from the scene. I am quite happy to let my 9 and 10 year old sons ride at Harrisville MotoX by themselves but I won't let them ride alone on a public trail ride (ie non-kids only ride)
Can't wait for the MR Motorcycle Fun Day MotoX series!..
My 2c worth

[SpikedPunch]

Oh, also, a lot of people don't want to try racing if they don't think they can win or look cool. Dumb but true.

[scott411]

the racing side is way smaller than trail ride, we average over 600 riders at a trail ride, but anything more than 250 is big for a motocross, natural terrain and all,

even in the hieght of the good times scrambles a huge turnout was about 450 riders.

[Shane06]

i have only been to a fun scramble at fells and another 1 out dairy flat and enjoyed it but dont like the mutli classes..i.e age, bike size etc. i would rather 1 class per rider to keep it fairer. that way it keeps the serious dudes away from 1st timers..the $ isnt really the issue because if there was a fun day coming in afew weeks i wouldn go to the bike park and save my day pass from the misses and ride the fun day..

[oldguy]

In my case alot has to do with timing of events, we are spoiled for choice over the summer period, one has to pick which event to do, if a couple of your favorite rides clash on the same day one will miss out, or Sat, and Sunday you push and try and do the 2 events, it can get very expensive.
I will always try and support both the Mr Moto and Tony and the Sandpit rides, love these Maize MX and Good time Scrambles suits this old bugga, Oh yah Scott I love the Mercer Track do you have a class for a silly old bugga on a WR250 to race in, could join the club just for the winter rounds at mercer.

[Ride it till the red]

Thanks everyone :), sounds like it's boiling down to.

Publicity - Facebook, Shop posters, Magazines, kiwibiker, silver bullet, where2ride, myrides
Reputation - It takes time to build trust in events.
Money - It's tight all around @ the moment, so pick & choose & racing is less riding time vs say a trail ride.
Timing - Saturday is not that popular ;)

I'd be fascinated at why Puke managed to grow so much, is it making things family friendly, the social side, or is it really just about the racing & publicity ?.

One thing that does interest me is pulling the riders who are quick at trail rides / fun nights, but won't race, or is that trying to achieve the unachievable ?.

Personally I think alot of it is a mindset thing about the word "RACE".

I ride with quite a few guys and there's definately two mindsets. Some the guys have raced before and love it, are highly competitive and turn everything into a race. The rest haven't raced and also haven't been riding for all that long. Although they are still hitting every jump without fail when we go to MX tracks and as you say they are quick at trail rides but they haven't been convinced by racing yet. I put this down to the idea of getting smoked, having heaps of pressure on you and not enjoying it. As wrong as that idea is.

Solution? Less serious racing, just like you said your getting more numbers to the Maize MX (we don't have those down here) I believe anything less serious will bring more numbers. From there you might be able to approach faster riders after their race/ride with a compliment and a flyer for your next proper MX.

Try "Fun Days" maybe? Will be down to advertising once again, but if you can get word out there that your letting people ride your track for a day (for a fee) your likely to get all those people who want to try before they race. If they can get a feel for the fact that the organisers are great and the track is good fun to ride (and that they're not as slow as they think they are) then they might be more interested in the next race.

[Ktmboy]

Thanks Nigel for the thread and also the feed back. What I take is the timing thing is important as Oldguy stated.
This was the first Saturday event for us and it was a good learning curve. Sundays seem to be the go from now on. I guess we will take a leaf out of the MR rides and just put good events on and it will grow over time. We missed Kiwi Rider dead lines this time. That could have been a biggy.

But hey we had some good fun and managed to average 75 to each event. 150 would be great next year.

You can never win as we just recieved confirmation that the Ardmore Schools MX is on 2nd May which is the same day as our Jolly Roosta trail ride at Leightons farm and also the final of the Warkworth Honda school mx series. At least we are a bit (well alot) different from these events.

[clmintie]

Arrrggghhhhh. I wanna do Jolly Rooster and the girls wanna ride Ardy schools..... I've been finding the the double header weekends heaps of fun, but the money starts to run out real quick.....3 riders, 4 bikes, one wage.... I think everyone should change everything to suit us.... There, problem solved.......

[takitimu]

Thanks Nigel for the thread and also the feed back. What I take is the timing thing is important as Oldguy stated.
This was the first Saturday event for us and it was a good learning curve. Sundays seem to be the go from now on. I guess we will take a leaf out of the MR rides and just put good events on and it will grow over time. We missed Kiwi Rider dead lines this time. That could have been a biggy.

No worries Tony :),

From memory you got big numbers to the 2 man series you ran, that actually shocked me how many you got. Now the timing was good in terms of competing events, but it was a race & you got really good numbers & it looked like alot of Novices ( with the odd burgler in there ).

I'm a curious bugger sometimes & I just wonder what fired people about the 2 man that never quite clicked with the Scrambles, or for that matter a recent CC series up here.

My theory after reading here & thinking about it some more is that it's about people understanding what level the racing will be at and making it real clear it's fun & beginners welcome. Which kind of follows Scotty's point, the track has to be hard but not to hard.

My last thought is it's dangerous listening to people sometimes, you listen to the riders after Operau TTR & I know a fair few who don't really like it & you'd think it'd shrink but that race just get's bigger & bigger ( it's my favourite, but terrain is like what I grew up on ). I guess the bulk of people don't really comment & it can be tough to work out what they want.

[Ktmboy]

I think the Woodhill Two Man is special because apart from the T100 there are few tracks that can accomodate winter racing. Otherwise it turns into a mud fest. I see Powers has an event in June in Maramarua and I'd bet that not many would like riding those tracks mid winter.

Still will give it a go for next year though dependant on the availability of land. Its all about the planning, scheduling and the advertising.

[RJM]

My theory after reading here & thinking about it some more is that it's about people understanding what level the racing will be at and making it real clear it's fun & beginners welcome. Which kind of follows Scotty's point, the track has to be hard but not to hard.
You're on the money there. As I've said before I'm still very much novice and hate going to an event thinking I might get in the way of other people etc. Took a bit of convincing to get a long to Scrambles and had a blast at the back of the field. The racing part of it did intimidate me but was pleasantly suprised with the set up there. Was impressed with the higher level riding too from a spectator point of view.

I suggested to Scott recently if there could possibly be some sort of difficulty rating for events. 1 being easy novice friendly to 10 being super experienced. Just another thought.

[scott411]

i have been thinking about that idea a bit RJM, but as you said at Paparimu you had trouble in the A section, that was clearly marked A section because we thought the difficulty was harder than what we normally have in our trail ride, i think most the MR Motorcycle rides would be 2 to 3 on that scale, with occastionally a 6 or 7 put in as an A section, we do advertise in our flyers and advertising that are are aimed at beginner to intermedaite level,

[takitimu]

i have been thinking about that idea a bit RJM, but as you said at Paparimu you had trouble in the A section, that was clearly marked A section because we thought the difficulty was harder than what we normally have in our trail ride, i think most the MR Motorcycle rides would be 2 to 3 on that scale, with occastionally a 6 or 7 put in as an A section, we do advertise in our flyers and advertising that are are aimed at beginner to intermedaite level,

It's an interesting concept applied to a MX track as well, like last nights Maize I'd rate a 3, but last Sunday's MX would be more of a 7 rating. If nothing else I think I'll be suggesting we keep a ranking in mind for the tracks.

Regarding Trail rides, my opinion is the first "expert/A" section should start with a hill that pretty much is the edge of difficulty for the rest of the sections, that's not always easy with terrain etc. But I think we'll have a shot in a few weeks with that idea & see how it goes, certainly there is a pretty large variation in organisers definition of Expert/A :).

[RJM]

As Scott and I discovered - I was well and truly dropped in it by my 'mates' who said just do it. Thankfully Scott was on hand to get me to the top of the hill.

[stig]

I've had access to enough, and done enough, trail riding to feel comfortable participating in a clubman level event, but when it comes to MX I've only had two rides on an mx track.
I loved it and was clearing jumps etc but it would be hard to get enough track time for me to be comfortable to enter an event.
My point being that they are only open for practice during tight windows of time,
Pukekohe 1-3pm on 3 days of the month
Mercer - 1 sat per month
rotorua - was wednesdays only but looks like its changed lately.

Why is this?

2hrs at puke vs. a whole day trail riding~

[scott411]

I've had access to enough, and done enough, trail riding to feel comfortable participating in a clubman level event, but when it comes to MX I've only had two rides on an mx track.
I loved it and was clearing jumps etc but it would be hard to get enough track time for me to be comfortable to enter an event.
My point being that they are only open for practice during tight windows of time,
Pukekohe 1-3pm on 3 days of the month
Mercer - 1 sat per month
rotorua - was wednesdays only but looks like its changed lately.

Why is this?

2hrs at puke vs. a whole day trail riding~


resource consent mainly, but also that mercer/harrisville/rotorua are run by volunteers and it is what suits them to an extent

but Kimmys has a track that is open everyday, ardmore is open every wednesday, taupo you can get into sas well,

[oldskool]

I don't race, it's just an internal thing. 2 man was an abberration for me. I entered as a social thing and partly due to peer persuasion. I found the atmosphere different and the riders a bit more anal on the trail, although that didn't prevent me from stopping and asking if riders were alright if they looked stranded. I was surprisingly pleased with my eventual time. However for some reason the scramble event didn't appeal to me. I guess it is the difference between riding trail and riding mx.

I think if I was co-erced enough I most probably would have attended the scramble events if I wasn't so busy moving house and if I had a lighter bike..which I do have now. But for the most I would have had to feel confident that I would have been placed in events that I finished at least mid pack. No one likes to come last. Which brings to another issue. Given the amount of divisions I could have ridden the question of ride time for the $ has to be considered. I could be wrong but my perception is riding trail events has more value than attending scramble events.

Having said all that I would most probably do the 2man again this year for the buddy factor.

[oldguy]

resource consent mainly, but also that mercer/harrisville/rotorua are run by volunteers and it is what suits them to an extent

but Kimmys has a track that is open everyday, ardmore is open every wednesday, taupo you can get into sas well,

I absolutely love the mercer track, it is the one track that I would have a go at racing. I like admore, bit more riding there and I might have a go at racing, Be it at a novice level. Harrisville just looking at it scares the shit out of me.

[SpikedPunch]

I absolutely love the mercer track, it is the one track that I would have a go at racing. I like admore, bit more riding there and I might have a go at racing, Be it at a novice level. Harrisville just looking at it scares the shit out of me.

I'm pretty timid on motox tracks, but I really like harrisville, even tho I ride slooow I always feel pretty safe in the B's cause it's so well set up :)