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Blackflagged
22nd March 2010, 09:13
Pre 72 , What Happened! Didn`t pre72 use to have it`s own races. Why so few competitors ?

daytona
23rd March 2010, 20:29
Youré not the only one wondering what happened. I have been racing pre 72 Junior for 5 years now. When I first started 6 to 10 bikes on the grid was not uncommon but I have been to meetings lately where I have been the only pre 72 bike racing. Its a long time since I've raced in a solely pre 72 class. We are usually in with the pre 82's but often with pre 89's as well now.
The only acknowledgment we seem to get as a class is at the NZPCRA GP .
I was a bit suprised at my first AGM Prizegiving that the pre 72's were not even mentioned. This was discussed with the president at the time and he said it was an oversight on his part but nothing has changed. It has also been mentioned at every AGM since.
There seems to be a reluctance on behalf of the club to keep track of places/points for pre 72 as a class on its own so we are lumped in with the pre 82's for N0 1 Plate points. I don't see any revelance in knowing where I came in another class.
This has also been queried but the answer is there are not enough bikes to justify running a separate class.
This may be so but the question is why isn't there.
I race for the sheer enjoyment of it and the camaradarie of other postie racers but I can see that constantly having to race with faster pre 82 or pre 89 bikes could be a bit disheartening for some.
In an ideal situation having the classes that they ran in pre 72 ie 125, 250, 350, 500 and Open may encourage a few more smaller capacity bikes out rather than a straight 500 class. The NZCMRR and Posties in Australia don't seem to have trouble filling grids in the smaller classes.
Maybe there just aren't enough bikes in NZ.
Racing a pre 72 bike can be fairly high maintenance so maybe pre 89's the answer!.
There seems to be a focus on this class at present.
I was dissapointed to see pre 72 bikes dropped from Paeroa in favour of pre 89's.
How do the public know pre 72's even exist when we don't even feature as a class in most race programs
I know a few racers who are disgruntled by the situation but I also know of a few bikes being built so hopefully we'll see a revival.
If anyone out there has a pre 72 bike dust it off and we'll see you out there!

daytona
23rd March 2010, 20:29
Youré not the only one wondering what happened. I have been racing pre 72 Junior for 5 years now. When I first started 6 to 10 bikes on the grid was not uncommon but I have been to meetings lately where I have been the only pre 72 bike racing. Its a long time since I've raced in a solely pre 72 class. We are usually in with the pre 82's but often with pre 89's as well now.
The only acknowledgment we seem to get as a class is at the NZPCRA GP .
I was a bit suprised at my first AGM Prizegiving that the pre 72's were not even mentioned. This was discussed with the president at the time and he said it was an oversight on his part but nothing has changed. It has also been mentioned at every AGM since.
There seems to be a reluctance on behalf of the club to keep track of places/points for pre 72 as a class on its own so we are lumped in with the pre 82's for N0 1 Plate points. I don't see any revelance in knowing where I came in another class.
This has also been queried but the answer is there are not enough bikes to justify running a separate class.
This may be so but the question is why isn't there.
I race for the sheer enjoyment of it and the camaradarie of other postie racers but I can see that constantly having to race with faster pre 82 or pre 89 bikes could be a bit disheartening for some.
In an ideal situation having the classes that they ran in pre 72 ie 125, 250, 350, 500 and Open may encourage a few more smaller capacity bikes out rather than a straight 500 class. The NZCMRR and Posties in Australia don't seem to have trouble filling grids in the smaller classes.
Maybe there just aren't enough bikes in NZ.
Racing a pre 72 bike can be fairly high maintenance so maybe pre 89's the answer!.
There seems to be a focus on this class at present.
I was dissapointed to see pre 72 bikes dropped from Paeroa in favour of pre 89's.
How do the public know pre 72's even exist when we don't even feature as a class in most race programs
I know a few racers who are disgruntled by the situation but I also know of a few bikes being built so hopefully we'll see a revival.
If anyone out there has a pre 72 bike dust it off and we'll see you out there!

Motu
23rd March 2010, 20:55
I know someone who isn't racing because being lumped in with the pre '82's makes him a target on the track....dangerous to be too slow.

Blackflagged
25th March 2010, 18:25
Good to Hear some more >72 bikes are being prepared.The NZCMRR,seem to support more smaller cc classes, and a there`s bikes in pre 76 senoir.Sort of a change over years, i guess, between clubs.

Peter Smith
4th April 2010, 21:14
Good to Hear some more >72 bikes are being prepared.The NZCMRR,seem to support more smaller cc classes, and a there`s bikes in pre 76 senoir.Sort of a change over years, i guess, between clubs.
Yer pre 89 junior, better not say my theory on what would increase field sizes in that, as i`m just a watcher.

Methven 'Mountain Thunder' street race, 3 April 2010
The Cams group had around 20 pre '72 machines at the above event.

malcy25
8th April 2010, 17:44
pre 72 is a widely recognised cut off at avrious levels elsewhere in the world. Where as the pre 76 class at NZCMRR events is more to do with the demise of the english (original) manufacturing.....ie when Triumph and Norton were dying in a ditch.

Time has precluded me from rebuilding the pre 72 rocketship in the garage that I'm dying to get going.

k1w160
24th April 2010, 16:31
I came across a T500 being readied for the track this week, full fairing fitted etc, should be out next season.

gatch
25th April 2010, 10:04
I came across a T500 being readied for the track this week, full fairing fitted etc, should be out next season.

NZCMRR runs classes for 250/prewar, 250-350, 350-500, 500+. With further subclasses for the 350/500/500+ bikes, a clubmans/modified/production race and post classic.

Though they are not big on jap bikes, they MIGHT let you enter in one of the events through the year, but definately not the Festival in Feb at Pukekohe.

I've been hooked up for a season with a 57 Norton Dominator, runs in 500 modified, it's very cool. There is some gorgeous bikes out there, the festival is something else too. About 200 riders and 290 odd bikes last year, just 3 days of old school bikes.

Blackflagged
25th April 2010, 10:58
Yer, looks great, got to get involved.

daytona
25th April 2010, 18:40
NZCMRR invite NZPCRA to most of their meetings. They are very good events with a great atmosphere. Postie bikes have to run in their own NZPCRA races, usually Pre 72, 82 and 89 in together. No Japanese bikes in NZCMRR classes.

RDjase
6th May 2010, 18:55
I know someone who isn't racing because being lumped in with the pre '82's makes him a target on the track....dangerous to be too slow.

I think that this could be the issue with the lack of pre82 at the vic club rounds, I really enjoy the road race spectacular and have a separate pre 82 and pre 89 race, shame they got mixed at last years

I have got T20 race bike stashed away as well, and a TZR, hard to race 3 bikes in the same class.

Another problem with the Vic club rounds is I cant race 2 classes on my LC, only postys. In the BRM summer series I run postys and pro twin open, lots of 2 strokes in pro twin open now, more than the big dukes and aprillias

ellipsis
3rd June 2010, 09:25
...down south here at CAMS we have been talking the lack of pre 72s for a while now, and then all of a sudden 20+ turn out for a street race and the following club day last month saw 15 or so turn out...so its not like they are all gone or broken...I think that its got a lot to do with pre 72 owners not bringing out their machines to have to race faster more modern bikes....Im guilty of that myself....must make the effort...

Grumph
15th June 2010, 08:20
Pre 72 is the unloved orphan child.... well not really but that's the effect.
The situation now reflects pretty accurately the situation in period. If you were serious you had to have a 2 stroke, what 4 strokes were being run were Manxes etc on their last legs being run on a budget or the pretty rare kitted Hondas. Kitted CB72/77's were around but of course now the CB350 will run rings round those so no incentive to do one.
To run a 2 stroke of the period now means serious money and time investment - probably as much or more than running a late TZ regularly.... Again just like the serious guys in period.
Cb350's and 450's are seen as a good way/relaively cheap to get into pre 72 but the reaity is that to get a resonable lifespan from one you must spend serious money on the cranks - or keep searching for good ones...
I suppose the best option is probably a latish Triumph or Norton - at least you could run them with PC's the Register, or BEARS.
The recent Methven meeting demonstrated IMO that if you provide a meeting that is a sufficient drawcard they will come - The S.I has Greymouth and the Bert Munro as good examples of this. But the organising clubs have got to be prepared to take the risk of opening entries for a dedicated pre 72 race....
Grumph

yorkshire raceramesh
28th September 2011, 21:23
+1 more for Vic Club posties. Currently building a pre 82 GS550.

Voltaire
6th August 2013, 16:01
The pre October 72 rule seems to have exclusions and inclusions. No Kawasaki Z1's and RD's despite them being around in 1972, yet if a model went unchanged like the Honda 750/4 its included.

Some of us run post 72 bikes in the CMCRR races but would like to run in the Posties, however the power difference between late 70's Japanese multis and bikes that lingered from the late 60's into the late 70's are totally outclassed.
Perhaps its time the inclusions and exclusion were reviewed and clarified.
For example, Norton Commandos, BMW twins, Triumph T140s and probably many others.
Any thoughts?

Grumph
7th August 2013, 06:43
The pre October 72 rule seems to have exclusions and inclusions. No Kawasaki Z1's and RD's despite them being around in 1972, yet if a model went unchanged like the Honda 750/4 its included.

Some of us run post 72 bikes in the CMCRR races but would like to run in the Posties, however the power difference between late 70's Japanese multis and bikes that lingered from the late 60's into the late 70's are totally outclassed.
Perhaps its time the inclusions and exclusion were reviewed and clarified.
For example, Norton Commandos, BMW twins, Triumph T140s and probably many others.
Any thoughts?

Lets be clear about this, it's a North island problem caused by two groups having overlapping eligibility periods. If the register had stuck to what is in the rulebook and PCRA had encouraged pre 72 harder I doubt you'd be sounding this out.
I hear there may be changes in the works - coming from NZPCRA - to include later bikes.
I for one will look very hard at any proposed changes as the fleet of yellow Nortons from Wgtn to quote one example, are capable of winning on street circuits at least one age group up and possibly two....
At least in the SI it's not a broken class and IMO doesn't need fixing.

Voltaire
7th August 2013, 09:30
Lets be clear about this, it's a North island problem caused by two groups having overlapping eligibility periods. If the register had stuck to what is in the rulebook and PCRA had encouraged pre 72 harder I doubt you'd be sounding this out.
I hear there may be changes in the works - coming from NZPCRA - to include later bikes.
I for one will look very hard at any proposed changes as the fleet of yellow Nortons from Wgtn to quote one example, are capable of winning on street circuits at least one age group up and possibly two....
At least in the SI it's not a broken class and IMO doesn't need fixing.

Maybe I did not phase the question well enough.
the pre 72 rule is October 1972, but there are exclusions and exceptions.
The one mentioned in the quoted MNZ rules is the CB 750/4. What other bikes would you concider fits into this exemption.
Yes the NI does seem to have issues on agreeing, what they do agree on that they cannot run a meet at Hampton Downs by themselves.
cheers

Grumph
7th August 2013, 10:53
Maybe I did not phase the question well enough.
the pre 72 rule is October 1972, but there are exclusions and exceptions.
The one mentioned in the quoted MNZ rules is the CB 750/4. What other bikes would you concider fits into this exemption.
Yes the NI does seem to have issues on agreeing, what they do agree on that they cannot run a meet at Hampton Downs by themselves.
cheers

I've got no problem with the wording of the "grandfathering" clause letting machinery later but not updated into the class.

I'd also be tempted to allow Z1's too but wiith the proviso they be original capacity (903cc) and on 19/18inch wheels, and original calipers.....that would save a lot of $$ over the bigbores and 17in wheels. TZ's - never, too easy to upgrade. RD's maybe with original pipes....

Voltaire
7th August 2013, 11:16
I've got no problem with the wording of the "grandfathering" clause letting machinery later but not updated into the class.

I'd also be tempted to allow Z1's too but wiith the proviso they be original capacity (903cc) and on 19/18inch wheels, and original calipers.....that would save a lot of $$ over the bigbores and 17in wheels. TZ's - never, too easy to upgrade. RD's maybe with original pipes....

Any examples of 'Grandfathered" bikes ( I like that expression) that you guys run in the South?
EG: they are proposing the whole Commando series, would therefore the Moto Guzzi V twins be the same and T140's?

malcy25
7th August 2013, 12:48
Dunno what the the whole "North Island" thing is about...then again, it was North Islanders who got off their bums and got some rules into the Rule book in the first place. :wings:

The pre 72 rules in the MNZ rule book, were very much predicated upon a very good, well known set of rules used to very good effect in Aussie, they were proven to have a good Formula with well founded exclusions and overall worked well.

These exclusions are limited only to Z1, TZ and RD350 and the cut off date was specifically set to exclude those three models as they were (as I understand it) VERY LATE 1972 issue, for the 73 year. But let's look at reality placing those in there where a good zeddie could make 150+ hp (I have stood next an 8 valve Kwaka making 160 on the dyno).

RD350's were a step ahead of the R5's etc than came before and are very much tied to the mid and not early 70's. TZ's, well, they were a 73 model and a similar effect, decimate everything else in class by allowing them.

I wouldn't change the exclusions, it works and fits with most of the rest of the world and especially aussie where 3-4 trips each way happen each year.

The CB750 example, is just that, an example.....the rule cut and paste being...Later versions of the same models released (but not updated) eg Honda 750 K1-K6 may be acceptable as eligible for Pre 72 when competing in a racing class. (bold and Italics are mine).

So many commando's Tridents, Bonnies and some BMW's, Guzzi's etc fall straight in anyway. The problem is not as big as it seems...and as Grumph and I have previoulsy alluded too, this is under question at present to better align the NZCMRR club only pre 76 into the Nationally (ie MNZ) recognised Pre 72 class.

Voltaire
7th August 2013, 13:47
It came up at the register AGM and the submitter was told that the process he must follow to make the submission was to go away and get 10 member signatures then present it to the committee.

There was also mention of taking the pre 76 to 1982 in line with MNZ rules, same thing.
The members also voted on a new Vice President and allowing the Committee to decide on PCRA attendance at future meetings and there were some graphs on falling entries.

I was hoping to get some clarification so as to enter my 1973 BMW 900 in the Barry Sheene. Its only $20 to cross enter so I'll just do it and see what happens. Japanese multis have nothing to fear from the Bavarian Tractor :lol:

Grumph
7th August 2013, 17:35
I was hoping to get some clarification so as to enter my 1973 BMW 900 in the Barry Sheene. Its only $20 to cross enter so I'll just do it and see what happens. Japanese multis have nothing to fear from the Bavarian Tractor :lol:

Put 750 badges on it......