What would you do?

[raftn]

I currently have access to my children form wednesday night to SUnday night, and also the following wednesday till 7.30pm

Last weekend I took my son for a ride to have morning tea with his Nana in Matakana.


LAst night I recived this email form the x wife.

From this date we will be going back to the court appointed access arrangements (Thurs - Sun fortnighthtly).

I am disappointed and disgusted at your apparent disregard for our son's safety, and my repeated plea that you do not travel all over the countryside with him on the back of your motorcycle.

Both my children are extremely precious and I can not understand why you would place life and limb at risk unnecessarily. Nathan is too young to understand the dangers, and I would expect you, as an adult (and parent) to be far more responsible than what you are over this issue.

Sailing and fishing were far better father/son/family activities than motorcycling!!!

If you continue to be so senseless, there will be further issues concerning access to contend with.


I dont think their will be a court in the land that will deny me my Kids because I take one of them out for a ride occasionally. But She has now canned the extra days i was having because of this. What should I do next.

Cave in?.............or let this go to court and fight for the extra time with them?

Please note, I have purchased all the correct fitting gear for my son, Helmet that fits, proper boots, bike jacket, bike pants with lining and padding and gloves.
I love my kids to bits and take his safty very importantly when he is on the bike.

[JimO]

fight, they are your kids as well as hers

[vifferman]

How old is Nathan?

[dogsnbikes]

And how tall is the boy?

[rickstv]

The court has given you access for a certain time and your x has added to that by giving you an extra couple of days a fortnight. she is unfortunatly within her rights

You may have to grovell.:shit::angry:

Rick

[Bald Eagle]

And how tall is the boy?
Tell the bearch no access no support $$$

[hayd3n]

how old is the boy?

[raftn]

How old is Nathan?

He is ten........

[steve_t]

So you've been appointed time by the court and your wife has given you extra time on top of this which she has now rescinded because she doesn't want them on your bike. Hmmm... I don't think there's much you can do. Legally, you're only entitled to the minimum hours appointed by the court. The extra time has been a bonus. As crap as it is, I don't think you can do much. It's a choice of take them on the bike and only get court appointed time, or don't take them on the bike and get extra time (hopefully). Sorry to hear about your horrible circumstances :(

[BiK3RChiK]

Grief! They are your kids as much as hers! When they are with you, surely you can do whatever you like within the law with them...

Fight for them, I say....

[rustyrobot]

Honestly, if I was you I would tackle this as softly as possible. I know ex-partners are likely to get your heckles up, but I just can't see it working out better if you go in fighting. Perhaps you could explain (again?) all the precautions you have taken, how important your son is to you, how HE is the one who misses out if she tries to punish you by restricting access further. Yes, there are dangers motorcycling, but there are also dangers sailing and fishing (depending on where you fish). There is also danger in driving him to and from each other's houses. Many people take their children riding, or allow their children to ride their own motocross bikes. I think that what you are doing is not 'senseless', and you are in fact being very sensible by providing all the relevant safety equipment. You could explain to her what you and your son enjoy about riding together, how you get to see parts of the country others don't. Write your reply email and dont send it. Come back to it a little while later and re-read it before you do send it. Perhaps get a friend to check it out, it is SO easy to mis-read the emotional intention of emails, so language has to be kept as neutral as possible. We 'have' to use email to discuss custody and other arrangements around my 6year old step-son, so I know how easy it is for it all to go wrong over a few mi-read statements!

Good luck!

Oh, and acknowledge her stuff too. I think it is understandable for her to be afraid, especially if she doesn't ride or enjoy riding. Part of being a parent is letting our children do things that scare us.

[p.dath]

Been there, done similar. Go to court and get the order amended.

[Mudfart]

this is war, dont be a nancy because its your ex. She is obviously going in guns blazing.
Does she smoke? drink? drive badly? is she promiscuous? anything you can get her on, do!
Telling you your not allowed ANY joy in your life? who the fuck does she think she is? Still your wife? NUP.
If she aint giving you her ass, her opinion of how you spend your time has no relevence to your existence.
What you do with your son during your court appointed time is your business.
If she does smoke btw, she is poisoning your kids. I suggest you raise this concern as a responsible parent in court.

[BMWST?]

and stress the fact that "all over the countryside" was actually a visit to Nana

[raftn]

Honestly, if I was you I would tackle this as softly as possible. I know ex-partners are likely to get your heckles up, but I just can't see it working out better if you go in fighting. Perhaps you could explain (again?) all the precautions you have taken, how important your son is to you, how HE is the one who misses out if she tries to punish you by restricting access further. Yes, there are dangers motorcycling, but there are also dangers sailing and fishing (depending on where you fish). There is also danger in driving him to and from each other's houses. Many people take their children riding, or allow their children to ride their own motocross bikes. I think that what you are doing is not 'senseless', and you are in fact being very sensible by providing all the relevant safety equipment. You could explain to her what you and your son enjoy about riding together, how you get to see parts of the country others don't. Write your reply email and dont send it. Come back to it a little while later and re-read it before you do send it. Perhaps get a friend to check it out, it is SO easy to mis-read the emotional intention of emails, so language has to be kept as neutral as possible. We 'have' to use email to discuss custody and other arrangements around my 6year old step-son, so I know how easy it is for it all to go wrong over a few mi-read statements!

Good luck!

Oh, and acknowledge her stuff too. I think it is understandable for her to be afraid, especially if she doesn't ride or enjoy riding. Part of being a parent is letting our children do things that scare us.



What is really wierd, is that she was the one who taught me to ride, but she left me for an older guy who is the real FUn Police, and now she is very anti bikes.....go figure?

[Mully]

Been there, done similar. Go to court and get the order amended.

Yep, this one.

10 is old enough, I reckon.

Or, if she wants to be a bitch and enforce the time you have, take Nathan out on the bike for as long as possible on every day you do have him.

[avgas]

raftn what I am about to say will be a little cold - but I have seen this many times in my life (and I am not very old).
She is legally out to rape you.
She is building a legal case so that you do not have custody.
She is getting advise about how to right these letters. This advise may not be from a lawyer, but most likely someone of education. To pull apart her letter line-by-line:

From this date we will be going back to the court appointed access arrangements (Thurs - Sun fortnighthtly).
(This was already planned by both her and her lawyers/friends/legal aid - you just gave them the excuse)

I am disappointed and disgusted at your apparent disregard for our son's safety, and my repeated plea that you do not travel all over the countryside with him on the back of your motorcycle.
(I don't know your wife, but the average reaction to this would be "You dangerous fuck, why are you trying to kill my kids!"....not what she has written)

Both my children are extremely precious and I can not understand why you would place life and limb at risk unnecessarily. Nathan is too young to understand the dangers, and I would expect you, as an adult (and parent) to be far more responsible than what you are over this issue.
(Re-inforcement for court action, justification for argument, reasons why she is right and you are wrong. Once again, written in legal form, not human reaction e.g. should say "You know we both love the kids....")

Sailing and fishing were far better father/son/family activities than motorcycling!!!
(Per chance does she have a new man in her life, one that does these first 2 activities as well???? In court you have to argue that my home is better than your home etc)

If you continue to be so senseless, there will be further issues concerning access to contend with.
(Once again normal reaction would be "Don't fuck with me or the kids..." the above is lawyer speak for see you in court)

I am not a lawyer (I just fuck with them on my time off), but she is expecting you to have a 'crazy man' reaction. This makes you also look bad in the courts.
Get yourself a GOOD lawyer now. Show them this.
BE CALM, and calculating. Do no disclose any information to her. Claim that no only are you a safe rider you always remain below speed limits (if you can question if she is just as safe - do so here). State to her the children have the safest riding gear available, paid for by top dollar.
BE CALM and collective. Observe what she does or says, spin it back at her (in court affidavits).....but most of all be calm about it.
PM me if you want more help.
Be calm and coolly tell her she is wrong and re-reinforce the reasons why.
BE CALM and take her down. She is out to get you man, but the best defence is retorted offence.

[Love my Bonnie]

Been here myself
I didnt like my ex taking our son on his bike, BUT I know he loved our son and would not do anything to hurt him.
Your EX is just using the kids as ammo to get at you because now you are seperated, its the only thing she can control in your life.
Dont let her get to you, enjoy your kids while you can, if that means not taking your son on your bike for a few years until he is old enough to decide for himself, then its really a small price to pay
Because in the end, its about your kids and the bond you have with them
It seems like giving in to her, but is it really worth the fight? Its her way of continuing your hassles.

[mashman]

I'd be knocking on the door for a sit down chat with your son, her and her fella... ask your son if he feels like his life is in danger... ask mum to justify why he's not allowed on the bike anymore... check out the reaction of the adults... you may find out more that way... Ask her why she doesn't trust you (unless that's a stoopid question) with your son on the back... but as Mr Gas above says... be calm, know what you want to ask... ask it and then get the fuck out... Then it's either a legal fight, or one less thing for you and your son to do... Unlucky mate... Good Luck

[rustyrobot]

I'd be knocking on the door for a sit down chat with your son, her and her fella... ask your son if he feels like his life is in danger...

It's unfair to put your son in the middle of this. If you have this conversation, I don't think he should be there. You two are the adults, it is not his responsibility to sort this disagreement out, or be dragged in to it in that way.

I have to say that I disagree with Avgas that the email is necessarily written by a lawyer, or with that in mind. Hey, maybe he his right, or maybe it's bitter paranoia. I totally agree when he says "BE CALM and collective" (sic).

Perhaps I am being a bit hopeful when I envisage you both as emotionally mature adults going through the difficult task of sharing the responsibilities of raising children in a separation. My advice presumes this. Maybe you are both scheming and underhanded and wanting to play power games. In that case, it probably wont work.

In my opinion, if you really put your children's welfare first, then maintaining a good relationship with their mother is important. Planning to "take her down" is not.

[BiK3RChiK]

What Avgas says Roger... She's out to get you. Cool, calm and collected!

Sorry this is happening to you...

Mavis

[spajohn]

This advise may not be from a lawyer, but most likely someone of education.

Completely agree with Avgas that this has been worded specifically for a legal fight - whether or not by a lawyer I suspect you have been through the courts so she has had a taste of this first hand and likely has a bit of experience from that.

I'm not a lawyer, and not sure about in NZ, but from my brothers divorce in Aus there is a difference between custody and decision making for the children's welfare. Not sure of the correct terms but the difference being you may have the right to see him Wed-Sun, but without joint 'custody' (or something like that) she can make decisions for his well being without your say-so. If that is the case I would suggest you are in a weaker bargaining position from the outset - you also know what your own riding history, demerit points etc, that should could use against you if it goes to court regarding safety.

As tempting as it is to wind up these situations always go better if you keep your cool. Make sure you know what your rights are from the agreement in place, and get some advice on what the risks are for her to have them reduced. If you can keep it out of the courts even better.

Good luck.

[mashman]

It's unfair to put your son in the middle of this. If you have this conversation, I don't think he should be there. You two are the adults, it is not his responsibility to sort this disagreement out, or be dragged in to it in that way.

He's already in the middle... might be worth asking him how he'd like to spend the time with his dad? If the step father is putting pressure on the mother, then there's emotional blackmail in there somewhere for her to tell you no more... Plus if she's the one saying no, wouldn't you like to be there to find out exactly what she says to him about why he can no longer go on the bike, or maybe back his mothers position (as much as you might detest it) so that he doesn't hate her... they're my reasons for suggesting your son should be involved... But that's just what i'd do is all...

[GOONR]

I'm with avgas on this, if she was 'just' pissed off I would have thought that the natural reaction would have been to pick up the phone and call you a dangerous arse. This just stinks of 'now I have proof that I've called him out'.

Sorry dude but as avgas has said I'd be hunting out a good lawyer.

Hope it doesn't all turn to shit for ya.

[CookMySock]

Typical irate-female overreaction to her own beliefs. I'm fucking glad most chix just aren't like this - luv ya's all.. :love:

Unfortunately, the court appointed access arrangements will be legally binding, unless you challenge them.
I expect there are a few actions of hers you could describe as senseless as well.


She is legally out to rape you. She is building a legal case so that you do not have custody. She is getting advise about how to right these letters. This advise may not be from a lawyer, but most likely someone of education.Whoa, slow down. That's all on the basis of what you believe. It is possible, even likely, that she genuinely feels afraid (even though misguided) for the kids' safety.


Steve

[Tank]

real advise - tread carefully - negotiate.

If it was my kids - I would happily give up riding on the days I have access to have the extra time with them. Perhaps if you gave that assurance to the ex missus the problem could be solved. Its does not look like you are going to easily get her to allow riding - so that may be the price you pay (unless you get the dates / access changed by the courts)

Other advise:

Shoot the bitch.

Either way - best of luck.

[Bald Eagle]

Typical irate-female overreaction to her own beliefs. I'm fucking glad most chix just aren't like this - luv ya's all.. :love:

Unfortunately, the court appointed access arrangements will be legally binding, unless you challenge them.
I expect there are a few actions of hers you could describe as senseless as well.

Whoa, slow down. That's all on the basis of what you believe. It is possible, even likely, that she genuinely feels afraid (even though misguided) for the kids' safety.


Steve

Nah she's playing power games , prob influenced by her new fella. Burn her in oil at the earliest opportunity

[peasea]

I currently have access to my children form wednesday night to SUnday night, and also the following wednesday till 7.30pm

Last weekend I took my son for a ride to have morning tea with his Nana in Matakana.


LAst night I recived this email form the x wife.

From this date we will be going back to the court appointed access arrangements (Thurs - Sun fortnighthtly).

I am disappointed and disgusted at your apparent disregard for our son's safety, and my repeated plea that you do not travel all over the countryside with him on the back of your motorcycle.

Both my children are extremely precious and I can not understand why you would place life and limb at risk unnecessarily. Nathan is too young to understand the dangers, and I would expect you, as an adult (and parent) to be far more responsible than what you are over this issue.

Sailing and fishing were far better father/son/family activities than motorcycling!!!

If you continue to be so senseless, there will be further issues concerning access to contend with.


I dont think their will be a court in the land that will deny me my Kids because I take one of them out for a ride occasionally. But She has now canned the extra days i was having because of this. What should I do next.

Cave in?.............or let this go to court and fight for the extra time with them?

Please note, I have purchased all the correct fitting gear for my son, Helmet that fits, proper boots, bike jacket, bike pants with lining and padding and gloves.
I love my kids to bits and take his safty very importantly when he is on the bike.

I've been through all this, it's a fucking nightmare but rule number one is; don't fly off the handle. Stay out of the woman's face as much as possible.

The best thing I ever took to court was a request from my children to spend more time with me. Looking back I think there was a pretty good case for me getting custody but it would have been an ugly and expensive fight. I left the kids and the ex in the family home and now that the girls have grown up they are grateful for that and both of them can now see why I left their mother.

Take my advice and remain calm. Talk to your lawyer and get him/her to talk to the kid's legal representative. So few adults ask the kids what THEY want because they are so wrapped up in their own emotions. (Not saying that's how it is with you but it is often the case.) If the kid's lawyer (I assume there is one) puts a case for the kid(s) wanting more time with you then it's very likely it'll happen, in time.

All this is a time consuming mission but things have swung back in favour of good fathers in recent years, so don't despair.

Good luck.

[aprilia_RS250]

My solution:

Find someone half her age and weight, twice the looks and loves riding (you+bike) who will also get along with your boy. He’ll go home tell the ex all about it, it’ll be like adding salt to a wound.

[hayd3n]

My solution:

Find someone half her age and weight, twice the looks and loves riding (you+bike) who will also get along with your boy. He’ll go home tell the ex all about it, it’ll be like adding salt to a wound.

bingo :yes::Punk::blink:

[Headbanger]

Maybe shes just concerned for her kids?

Nah, she must be a man hating crazy bitch out to destroy you.

[avgas]

Whoa, slow down. That's all on the basis of what you believe. It is possible, even likely, that she genuinely feels afraid (even though misguided) for the kids' safety.
errrr then she would say so - reread what she has said

[Urano]

i'm sorry for the sad situation.
:(

[crazyhorse]

Nathan obviously had a fantastic time with you , and unfortunately could not hide his excitement from his mother. My children were on the back of my bike at the ages of about 7 and 9. My ex husband did not argue it - and nor would I let him., if it had come to that. I would listen, but do my thing. Purely because my children too, ARE precious to me, and I would do nothing to harm them. They both are fully into motorcycles now too - although dirt over road.

I feel your pain. In my view, your ex wife was the one who increased the time on the court appointed hours, so if it goes to court, I would think the judge would view it as you are more than adequate to have them for longer periods of time. Unfortunately she who giveth, taketh away. But you still have what the court said.
In my belief, she cannot stop you from taking the children on the bike - they are in your custody and there is no age limit. You no doubt do not tell her what she can or cannot do whilst she has the children in her possession, so yes, stay calm, and let her know you are a parent first and bike or not, that does not change, You do not ride like a maniac with children on the back, and in fact, probably take more care as I surely did.

If it went back to court, you would obviously provide the gear you have purchased for your son which proves that you are putting safety first. Motorcycles are for enjoying the simple pleasures of life, the smell of the grass, cowpatties (couldn't help that one), harvessted paddocks, etc, all the things you do not experience in your air conditioned car. But also, you are sharing your own passion with your son.

if you went sailing, the boat could tip over and he could drown too - happens just as frequently as everything else iin life.... Do not put your ex down to your kids, even though you may want to -esp at this time.
All the best :)

[2wheeldrifter]

Hey Raftn god your bitch sounds just like my bitch... !!

Going back to the setup you before means that its a full back when shit hits the fan... shes just pissed at you... and to hurt you is to go back and stick to the agreement which hurts you and your SON which the cow doesn't understand.
All you can is abide by the agreement, to get it changed is a hassle and back to the lawyers and more money you waste. But the children are in your care, and that has nothing to do with her. The only way she can stop you is if it's writen down and passed through the lawyers not to take your son on your bike till the age of????
So no more favours and stick to the letter.

Fuck I wonder if my ex and your are sisters! My ex says the same ''MY kids" like fuck lady! "OUR KIDS" get it right you selfish bitch!

[blackdog]

i reckon nathan is probably about old enough for that first sx85 (or similar) that he can ride 'til his hearts content on your court appointed days, and talk about nothing else on hers........
http://www.motoinfo.it/public/images/nuovo/sx85.jpg

[KapitiLizard]

I think that there is some good and bad advice here. I think rustyrobot made some good points about how to communicate with her, and I would recommend that you keep a record of any agreements (e.g. print out any emails).

I think her email has a mix of fact, concern (genuine or not), emotion, and an element of "I've got control". The bit I would be worried about is getting drawn into the emotional part of this. If you can stick to the facts and ensure that your son is not drawn into the discussion or without having him to take sides (e.g. does he believe Mum or Dad over motorcycle safety).

If she is a control freak you may be always fighting this, but if she is just having an emotional outburst you may be able to let her get over it. Taking your boy fishing, yachting, rock climbing, golfing etc might be a way of easing any tension, plus you/he might enjoy it also. I'm not suggesting for one second that you don't take him out on the motorbike again if he enjoys it. Showing you are able to compromise (not to be read as giving in) may work in your favour down the track if/when you do go to court.

I don't imagine any judge would be stupid enough to support her attitude of telling you what you can and can't do unless you are genuinely putting him at risk. Motorcycling is still legal and I am sure the motorbike community would crucify any judge that tried to stop you riding with you.

Unfortunately dealing with an ex can be a tricky situation. I wish you all the best in dealing with this one

[allycatz]

Go along with the court appointed days. She will eventually want extra days to herself again and let you have them....play it safe with the bike riding but bear in mind if you let her control this activity it will be the first of many eg falling off a horse, planes falling out the sky, falling out a dam tree even. If your bike is legal and roadworthy and you have a clean driving history I cant see the problem. What you do with your son in your court appointed time (as long as its legal) is not for her to control and likewise when your son is with your ex. Good luck

[raftn]

Regardles what I do, it is a lose /lose situation for me. I either lose the kids for the extra time I have them( outside court appounted times) or I lose the special time I have with Nat on the bike.

Nathan struggles with his learning, and has not devloped good social skills because of it, he has been bullied, yet his face lights up when he talks about his time on the bike. He is very proud of DADS bike, and even puts motorbike DVDs on so we can watch them together. Hanging out with outher riders, and talking about them. He loves it, I wouldnt take or force him on the bike unless he wanted to go.

I have always attempted to be delicate in my dealings with the x, often being the one who backs down, to advoid issues with the kids and I never run her down in front of the children, in fact I do the opposite. I have never, nor will I ever resort to using the kids as a pawn. It is too easy to destroy kids , because the parents carn't keep it to the selves.

In this situation if she takes the extra time off me, and the kids ask why, I will tell them the truth. I wont run her down , but will explain why. Then they can make up their own mind.

I have no desire to go back to court, the first experince was draing enough, but I also dont belive a court in the land will find in her favour. In fact the last time she tried such a thing the judge roasted her.

So for now, I am going to call her bluff. After that I will take one day at a time.............


If she takes me to court I will take the oppournity to cross apply for shared custody 50/50, something she point blank refuses to grant me as it will reduce her child support.

[BiK3RChiK]

Well, Roger,... sounds like you have some direction. I feel for ya man! That's just spiteful on her behalf.

Take care of yourself and I hope it all works out for you.

Mavis

[FROSTY]

I'd suggest going to court and requesting that 50/50 arrangement. My OPINION is that the precedent has clearly been set for this to be set as a permanent arangement.
You could actually quote her letter as the reason why its needed to be court ordered

[mashman]

the judge roasted her

I see how she gets her way then :shifty: (will remove if inappropriate)