Chain adjustment advice please...

[Hans]

Hi all,

I'm having a scheduled maintenance day, so I thought I'd ask a few questions.
Adjusted the chain as per factory manual. Manual advises 25-35mm play when bike is on sidestand. I have adjusted to 29-30mm allowing for my weight (90kg-ish). After doing up the axle nuts to correct torque, I had to repeat the whole process, as the chain was now too tight, this time allowing for the change after tightening axle nuts.

1) The chain tightened up after torquing up the axle nut. Did I fuck up somewhere, or is this normal?

2) The chain still "feels too tight" when set at 29mm. When I'm sitting on the bike, there's no play measurable. Ok or not OK?

3) What's a reasonable tolerance for the left and right slack adjusters? I disregarded the marks on the swingarm and got two sets of measurements each to +/- 0.05mm. Is this just right or not enough? Or am I being an anally retentive idiot?

Cheers for your answers. I am anal with the work I do, but haven't spent next to fuck all time working on bikes, so experience is lacking. I'm asking because I want to do aviation-standard work on anything I ride.

[Ocean1]

Hi all,

I'm having a scheduled maintenance day, so I thought I'd ask a few questions.
Adjusted the chain as per factory manual. Manual advises 25-35mm play when bike is on sidestand. I have adjusted to 29-30mm allowing for my weight (90kg-ish). After doing up the axle nuts to correct torque, I had to repeat the whole process, as the chain was now too tight, this time allowing for the change after tightening axle nuts.

1) The chain tightened up after torquing up the axle nut. Did I fuck up somewhere, or is this normal?

Don't know teh bike but it's not unusual for the cam style adjusters to move as you're tightening up. Long and short: no, it ain't normal or OK, do it again and watch what's happening.

2) The chain still "feels too tight" when set at 29mm. When I'm sitting on the bike, there's no play measurable. Ok or not OK?

Not. See : http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/96728-Chain-adjustment-on-or-off-the-bike?p=2024426#post2024426

3) What's a reasonable tolerance for the left and right slack adjusters? I disregarded the marks on the swingarm and got two sets of measurements each to +/- 0.05mm. Is this just right or not enough? Or am I being an anally retentive idiot?

Teh marks are usually OK, within a couple of mm. Best way is to wrap a bit of string around teh back wheel and forward towards teh front axle, just touching teh front of teh rear wheel. Teh gap either side of teh front wheel should be within a couple of mm

Cheers for your answers. I am anal with the work I do, but haven't spent next to fuck all time working on bikes, so experience is lacking. I'm asking because I want to do aviation-standard work on anything I ride.

And stuff...

[kwaka_crasher]

Hi all,

I'm having a scheduled maintenance day, so I thought I'd ask a few questions.
Adjusted the chain as per factory manual. Manual advises 25-35mm play when bike is on sidestand. I have adjusted to 29-30mm allowing for my weight (90kg-ish). After doing up the axle nuts to correct torque, I had to repeat the whole process, as the chain was now too tight, this time allowing for the change after tightening axle nuts.

1) The chain tightened up after torquing up the axle nut. Did I fuck up somewhere, or is this normal?

2) The chain still "feels too tight" when set at 29mm. When I'm sitting on the bike, there's no play measurable. Ok or not OK?

3) What's a reasonable tolerance for the left and right slack adjusters? I disregarded the marks on the swingarm and got two sets of measurements each to +/- 0.05mm. Is this just right or not enough? Or am I being an anally retentive idiot?

Cheers for your answers. I am anal with the work I do, but haven't spent next to fuck all time working on bikes, so experience is lacking. I'm asking because I want to do aviation-standard work on anything I ride.

1) It's normal. To lower the occurence don't loosen the axle excessively - use the adjusters to draw the wheel back and if you overshoot, back them right off and start over.

2) Check it with the engine off, bike in gear, and pushed back gently so the top of the chain is taut. This simulates the normal riding conditions.

3) Measurements from where to where exactly? I would presume the marks are made based on the centreline of the pivot. In any case, 0.05mm?. I doubt very much you can measure that accurately to the centre of the axle and over the distance between centres the misalignment is insignificant - there would be more contribution from swingarm and wheel bearing tolerances.

[blackdog]

bring it round i can give you a hand

[Hans]

3) Measurements from where to where exactly? I would presume the marks are made based on the centreline of the pivot. In any case, 0.05mm?. I doubt very much you can measure that accurately to the centre of the axle and over the distance between centres the misalignment is insignificant - there would be more contribution from swingarm and wheel bearing tolerances.

See picture. Decent quality digital verniers do the trick. KB won't let me upload for some reason. See link.

http://www.glowfoto.com/static_image/26-230956L/6606/jpg/03/2010/img4/glowfoto

[CookMySock]

1. Normal. Everything changes once you retighten the axle.

2. Definite maybe, either way. I have had a number of methods described to me. My chain now runs quite tight - certainly little or no slop in it with rider on, but it shouldn't be guitar string tight. I keep it firm so backlash is kept at a minimum - keeps gearchanges nice and smooth.

3. +/- 0.5 mm ish. Check to see if the chain is running straight on the sprocket.


Steve

[The Stranger]

1) The chain tightened up after torquing up the axle nut. Did I fuck up somewhere, or is this normal?



Nothing you're doing wrong, this is entirely normal for Suzuki. There's a reason Suzuki's are cheap.

[CookMySock]

Nothing you're doing wrong, this is entirely normal for Suzuki.I have 11 bikes here and they all do it. None of them are Suzukis.

Steve

[Hans]

All sorted now. Off on a test ride now.

[The Stranger]

I have 11 bikes here and they all do it. None of them are Suzukis.

Steve

Please don't include hyodungs in a duscussion of motorcycles
They all do it to a degree, a mm or 2. He has a Suzuki, believe me, it's not a mm or 2.

[Hans]

All good now. Came home, rechecked, retorqued. Looks good and feels right. Having had a think about it, the flexing of the swingarm as you tighten the axle nuts must have a bit to do with the chain slack. All the more reason to leave them a bit tighter next time I do this.

[kwaka_crasher]

See picture. Decent quality digital verniers do the trick. KB won't let me upload for some reason. See link.

http://www.glowfoto.com/static_image/26-230956L/6606/jpg/03/2010/img4/glowfoto

Yeah, those dimensions are irrelevant. Like I said - the only one that matters is swingarm pivot to marks. As long as that's correct, the wheel will be square to the swingarm.


Having had a think about it, the flexing of the swingarm as you tighten the axle nuts must have a bit to do with the chain slack. All the more reason to leave them a bit tighter next time I do this.

Yep. As I said...


1) It's normal. To lower the occurence don't loosen the axle excessively...

Also, on your arrangement, there's nothing to prevent the wheel from moving BACK slightly as the axle is tightened - always hold the bolt and turn the nut to reduce this.

[sinfull]

Gidday Hans !

I often make a habit of grabbing a handfull of chain and hook the thumb over the swing arm, clamping it as hard as i can while torquing up (could use a G clamp or similar if ya wanna be pedantic)

If ya aint got a main stand, pop a jack under the bike and lift the wheel off the ground enough to spin the wheel and check there aint no tight spots in said chain !

If the chain does not have the inch slack when your sittin on it, the minute you chuck a pillion on board it will wear the chain/sprocket eccessively ! (tight spots included)

Use the marks as they will be pretty accurate ! But do check your wheel allignment, as most bikes have a history and could have a slight twist somewhere !

The stringline Oceans mentioned is one way, another is to find yourself a straight edge or two, long enough to reach past both the rear tyre and the front, stand the bike upright (perhaps using tiedowns or rope to hold it on the point of ballance) block the straight edges up as high as possible so they touch two edges of the rear tyre and the distances of the two edges of the front should be exact on both sides !


Do ya give ya brake lines a bleed during these maint days ? Couple of squirts out of each line to refresh it !

[T.W.R]

Quickest & simplest way to stop the adjustment altering when tightening the axle back up is to slip a screwdriver between the chain and sprocket before you tighten the axle :yes:

[Hans]

Gidday Hans !

I often make a habit of grabbing a handfull of chain and hook the thumb over the swing arm, clamping it as hard as i can while torquing up (could use a G clamp or similar if ya wanna be pedantic)

If ya aint got a main stand, pop a jack under the bike and lift the wheel off the ground enough to spin the wheel and check there aint no tight spots in said chain !

If the chain does not have the inch slack when your sittin on it, the minute you chuck a pillion on board it will wear the chain/sprocket eccessively ! (tight spots included)

Use the marks as they will be pretty accurate ! But do check your wheel allignment, as most bikes have a history and could have a slight twist somewhere !

The stringline Oceans mentioned is one way, another is to find yourself a straight edge or two, long enough to reach past both the rear tyre and the front, stand the bike upright (perhaps using tiedowns or rope to hold it on the point of ballance) block the straight edges up as high as possible so they touch two edges of the rear tyre and the distances of the two edges of the front should be exact on both sides !


Do ya give ya brake lines a bleed during these maint days ? Couple of squirts out of each line to refresh it !

Cheers for all the advice. Got it exactly how I wanted it in the end, although "in the end" could have been about 2 hours earlier, had I known all the tips and tricks....

[CookMySock]

If you want to tighten your chain in 60 seconds, slacken nut, tighten both adjusters half-a-turn, tighten nut. Done. Spray and walk away!

Steve

[emaN]

Hmm, not too sure about some of the advice you've been given here Hans.
Loosen that chain up; our bikes are road-going bikes & need 'room to move'. We hit wallows & slumps, which means our bikes need to go up and down, freely & without wrecking chains.

I've watched a suspension guru demonstrate how 'loose' it should be, ie: you want your biggest baddest mate to put all his weight over the back end of the bike, and, as if that's not enough, he's to reach down & grab the swingarm & bear-hug the tail end of the bike, compressing everything as much as poss.
Does that give an impression of how loose it needs to be?
Having it too tight will only stretch the chain, put pressure on bearings & wreck things. It'll also hinder the shock from doing its work.

And no, don't trust the factory 'notches'; use the stringline method, get an idea of how things sit so you know for next time.
And next time, back the nut off only enough to adjust the axle; it doesn't need to be 'sloppy loose'.
Hope this helps.

[Blackbird]

The stringline Oceans mentioned is one way, another is to find yourself a straight edge or two, long enough to reach past both the rear tyre and the front, stand the bike upright (perhaps using tiedowns or rope to hold it on the point of ballance) block the straight edges up as high as possible so they touch two edges of the rear tyre and the distances of the two edges of the front should be exact on both sides !

Hi Hans, the stringline method is the time-honoured way but if you want to to make a laser alignment rig which is cheap and fast to use, have a look at this: http://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2010/03/wheel-alignment-improve-your-handling.html.

Cheers,

Geoff

[firefighter]

Nothing you're doing wrong, this is entirely normal for Suzuki. There's a reason Suzuki's are cheap.

Yep, same thing happens on mine. I allow a little "give" when I do it. Also putting a screwdriver on the chain and rolling the bike back so it's between the sprocket and chain seems to help.

[motor_mayhem]

Hey Team,

I just did a chain adjustment on my road bike last night and it seems to be making a clunking sound which I have since found out is refered to as a tight spot. I have had dirt bikes for years and done plenty of chain adjustments and have never come across this phenomenon. Is there a way to fix the tight spot or is the chain buggered?

[motor_mayhem]

Hey Team,

I just did a chain adjustment on my road bike last night and it seems to be making a clunking sound which I have since found out is refered to as a tight spot. I have had dirt bikes for years and done plenty of chain adjustments and have never come across this phenomenon. Is there a way to fix the tight spot or is the chain buggered?

[kwaka_crasher]

Hey Team,

I just did a chain adjustment on my road bike last night and it seems to be making a clunking sound which I have since found out is refered to as a tight spot. I have had dirt bikes for years and done plenty of chain adjustments and have never come across this phenomenon. Is there a way to fix the tight spot or is the chain buggered?

The only real solution is replacement of chain and sprockets.

[jonbuoy]

1. Normal. Everything changes once you retighten the axle.

2. Definite maybe, either way. I have had a number of methods described to me. My chain now runs quite tight - certainly little or no slop in it with rider on, but it shouldn't be guitar string tight. I keep it firm so backlash is kept at a minimum - keeps gearchanges nice and smooth.

3. +/- 0.5 mm ish. Check to see if the chain is running straight on the sprocket.


Steve

Given the choice between ultra smooth gear changes or worn countershaft bearings? I´ll take a bit of slop in the transmission over splitting the crank cases.

[CookMySock]

... clunking sound which I have since found out is refered to as a tight spot.jack the rear wheel and rotate it - it the chain goes loose then tight, its rooted. Replace it or else it will snap and bite the back of your gearbox off. Chomp!

Steve

[sinfull]

jack the rear wheel and rotate it - it the chain goes loose then tight, its rooted. Replace it or else it will snap and bite the back of your gearbox off. Chomp!

Steve



2. Definite maybe, either way. I have had a number of methods described to me. My chain now runs quite tight - certainly little or no slop in it with rider on, but it shouldn't be guitar string tight. I keep it firm so backlash is kept at a minimum - keeps gearchanges nice and smooth.


Steve You have to wonder sometimes aye steve ! Advice, stop giving it !

[CookMySock]

You have to wonder sometimes aye steve ! Advice, stop giving it !It really bothers you doesn't it? Perhaps only your advice should be given? Only your opinion is worthwhile?

Steve

[sinfull]

It really bothers you doesn't it? Perhaps only your advice should be given? Only your opinion is worthwhile?

Steve It don't bother me bro, i aint gonna listen to it !
I have mentioned before that you often post some seriously silly advice and you asked me to find them, did you not ? Well i aint that bothered about it, to go looking at all your old posts but hello if i see you doing duh moments, i will laugh at you !

You should engage brain before you type and then perhaps even refrain from contradicting yourself !

How does a chain get tight/slack spots steve ?
Could it be perhaps, that if someone does not leave enough slack in their chain to allow for hitting a rut which will invariably stretch it ?
Or have Hyosung come up with a unique swing arm design, so as not to alter the chain tension when you add compression ?

[CookMySock]

How does a chain get tight/slack spots steve ? Could it be perhaps, that if someone does not leave enough slack in their chain to allow for hitting a rut which will invariably stretch it?I don't think you are genuinely interested, but on the off-chance - the chain gets alternating tight and slack spots where some pins in the links wear and extend, and others do not. When the worn parts are around the rear sprocket the chain will run tight, and when they are on the inline part, the chain will run loose. Your summary of a high-tensile steel chain being "stretched by hitting a rut" is an absurdity, and furthermore your fixation on attempting to embarrass others with their apparent lack of knowledge serves only to reveals yours.

Steve

[sinfull]

I don't think you are genuinely interested, but on the off-chance - the chain gets alternating tight and slack spots where some pins in the links wear and extend, and others do not. When the worn parts are around the rear sprocket the chain will run tight, and when they are on the inline part, the chain will run loose. Your summary of a high-tensile steel chain being "stretched by hitting a rut" is an absurdity, and furthermore your fixation on attempting to embarrass others with their apparent lack of knowledge serves only to reveals yours.

Steve
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah aha ! You are such an idiot aye ? Where in your wealth of knowledge library did you find that chains should be tight ? Do you not think that if you have a pilion on board, your chain will get tighter ? Same would apply if you bounced up and down as you rode, would it not ! And of course the whole time causing undue wear on the chain and sprokets aye ?
Have to wonder how some pins and rollers wear more than others when the chain goes round and round (unless you don't lube all yr chain, or they made some pins/rollers out of less tensile materials) explain that to me Oh wise one !

[The Stranger]

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah aha ! You are such an idiot aye ? Where in your wealth of knowledge library did you find that chains should be tight ? Do you not think that if you have a pilion on board, your chain will get tighter ? Same would apply if you bounced up and down as you rode, would it not ! And of course the whole time causing undue wear on the chain and sprokets aye ?
Have to wonder how some pins and rollers wear more than others when the chain goes round and round (unless you don't lube all yr chain, or they made some pins/rollers out of less tensile materials) explain that to me Oh wise one !

Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
And no one's had more experience at that than db.

[Qkkid]

Nothing you're doing wrong, this is entirely normal for Suzuki. There's a reason Suzuki's are cheap.

Up yours Noel:finger::finger: