Fear reaction when cornering

[p.dath]

This is more a rant about a disappointment I'm experiencing with my riding at the moment, but perhaps you might be able to identify with it, and chime in.

Recently something has gone backwards with my riding. I've started experiencing a fear reaction on corners, particularly blind corners that I can't see through, that didn't used to exist. I feel ok when I'm following someone, it's just when I'm on my own.

And it's causing me to do the wrong things. For example, I come out of a corner and discover my arms have tensed up, or I have trouble making myself keep a positive throttle in the corner, and I'm having to give extra concentration to make sure I'm looking where I want to go. These things didn't used to demand so much effort previously.

But once I'm most of the way through the corner I find myself annoyed because the corner ended up feeling easy, and I know I wasn't pushing my abilities, and the fear reaction was unwarranted.

And I guess that's the bit really annoying me - the fear reaction is un-warranted and is affecting my riding.


I did have a low-side on a corner maybe 5 months ago. I don't think it is bothering me, but perhaps something is playing games sub-consciously in the back of my head. I don't know.

I have a similar problem on AMCC ART days going down the front straight into Castrol corner. I'm confident I have the right lines, but because I can't see through the corner before I enter it I experience a fear reaction that is holding me back. I slow down without a good reason. Once I'm actually in the corner I feel fine again.

I remember the words "if your not having fun slow down until you are" ringing in my ears from AMCC ART days, and put it to the practice. I took on some deliberately twisty challenging roads recently and adopted a considerably slower pace. And the fear disappeared. And I decided to concentrate on the basics, looking through the corners, maintaining a positive throttle and keeping my arms relaxed. Maybe I need to put in some riding time like this until I build more confidence again.


I've reached the conclusion I need to take a step back to move ahead. I need to reinforce the basics again until my brain is ready to let me progress again.

Either that or back myself ...

[R6_kid]

Slow down Rossi.

In all seriousness it just sounds like your brain telling you that you aren't capable of going around the corner safely at that speed. That isn't a bad thing at all, especially if you like being alive. It's something that you need to listen to because whenever I haven't I've ended up in the bushes upside down with my bike in more pieces than when I entered the corner.

Slow it down. I try to ride on the open road without brakes, that is, setup early for the corner by going down through the gearbox (smoothly) and deciding on my speed before the corner. I take each corner at a speed that I know I will make it around that given corner (for a road I know) and leave a little in reserve.

If you are second guessing yourself then you shouldn't be trying to go faster anyway.

[Kendog]

I remember the words "if your not having fun slow down until you are" ringing in my ears from AMCC ART days, and put it to the practice. I took on some deliberately twisty challenging roads recently and adopted a considerably slower pace. And the fear disappeared. And I decided to concentrate on the basics, looking through the corners, maintaining a positive throttle and keeping my arms relaxed. Maybe I need to put in some riding time like this until I build more confidence again.
Without seeing you ride it's difficult to know exactly what the issue might be. But as soon as I read your second paragraph I immediately thought you need to slow down.

Then just like that you described the answer.

[R6_kid]

Then just like that you described the answer.

Rhetorical first post FTL.

[rapid van cleef]

i think keeping a very real sense of, what could be coming round the corner in the wrong lane is a good thing. somthing you will not come accross on the race track. i think all riders will admit to that feeling of 'oh shit....approaching a corner.then......'why was i worried..i coulda gone much faster' on exit from the corner. your natural instinct of fear of serious injury because of the unknown elements of road riding should help to keep you alive. you aint gonna win a championsip going flat out through a blind twistie to find a sheep in the road or another biker / car / whatever in the wrong lane coming towards you. so. i would find a quiet stretch of road and a few corners and learn them slowly, keeping you eye on the vanishing point and your peripheral vision on at all times. if im out on a road a find a nice corner , i ll go back and do it a few times til i get sick or risk the penalty of 'cruising' .

im not a wsbk contender or anything close, and never will be. however, i like to think that i am usually very aware of my surroundings and have good hazard perception. i am sometimes finding myself feeling uninterested in road riding due to the slow speeds needed to stay within the law and also the negative aspects of other poorly trained / disstracted road users and general road shite that spoils a good ride. i dont wanna blast round a corner to see somthing nasty in front of me, like an object or a policecar, so i slow down and it spoils the fun. but, above all else, i wanna ride home and see my family with me intact. so im now going to go and do as many track days as i can afford. way safer than the road. and i take to the twisties when i can and actually have a specific goal..

and now that i feel ihave waffled enough as i am bored.good bye

[Jonno.]

I used to get this on the open road.
Take it a bit slower and focus on your lines and build up your speed over time (to what you were riding at).

[CookMySock]

Either slow down and tour for a while, or get on the track and bust through it.

Steve

[Bikemad]

Either slow down and tour for a while, or get on the track and bust through it.

Steve

and remember to not change into first gear at 9000 rpm...........unless you are on the track...............heheh

[davebullet]

Is your bike handling differently? Is it becoming unsettled over what once was a settled bike over familiar roads? Maybe you've clocked up enough Kays and that factory shock / forks are starting to lose their composure. Are your tyres getting down? I've read many reports of some tyres getting really loose, with their demise rapidly accelerating in the last third of their life.

[p.dath]

Is your bike handling differently? Is it becoming unsettled over what once was a settled bike over familiar roads? Maybe you've clocked up enough Kays and those factory shocks are starting to lose their composure.

Bike feels perfect.

[Urano]

Recently something has gone backwards with my riding. I've started experiencing a fear reaction on corners, particularly blind corners that I can't see through, that didn't used to exist. I feel ok when I'm following someone, it's just when I'm on my own.

you're growin up, sonny...

it's normal. when i was 16 with my 125 i've done things that scares me even remembering, and i perfectly know that i have to thank a lot of dead people fi i'm here right now, cause as anybody riding a bike i'm a survivor, may be i'm a bit more survivor than others, as i've done really stupid things...

if we'll go to a ride together (and i hope to) you'll se that now i go only if i see. in italian is "se non vedo non vado" (if i don't see i don't go). so i'll take always slower the right turns (left for you) 'cause they're often blind, near a mountain, or a house... on the left (right for you) there's always a bit more visibility, so i'm a bit more relaxed.
one of the last tour i've taken before selling my bike, i've been on tomarlo (here: <iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&amp;q=tomarlo&amp;oe=UTF-8&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hl=en&amp;sll=44.533472,9.506607&amp;sspn=0.0280 22,0.077162&amp;split=1&amp;filter=0&amp;rq=1&amp;ev=zo&amp;radius=1.9 &amp;hq=tomarlo&amp;hnear=&amp;ll=44.533472,9.506607&amp;spn=0.028 022,0.077162&amp;t=k&amp;output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&amp;q=tomarlo&amp;oe=UTF-8&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hl=en&amp;sll=44.533472,9.506607&amp;sspn=0.0280 22,0.077162&amp;split=1&amp;filter=0&amp;rq=1&amp;ev=zo&amp;radius=1.9 &amp;hq=tomarlo&amp;hnear=&amp;ll=44.533472,9.506607&amp;spn=0.028 022,0.077162&amp;t=k&amp;source=embed" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small> ) with a friend. look at that road!! is an open track! awsome!!! well, we were driving a bit... ehm... enthusiastically... :whistle: he was in front of me of about 20 meters, entered a right turn and BUM, right after it a &%%$$***£&%/£$ had parked a land rover in the middle of the lane to take a walk and see the valley!!! WTF!!!
i've seen him brakin and getting right the bike: he managed to avoid the collision because he's been very skilled and lucky, i've had maybe a second and a half more seeing him and i avoided the car without problems, but i don't know if i could manage the situation if i'd been in front...

that's why you're scared: because people are stupid and you're not on a track.
it's wisdom, not fear.
relax, slow down and go to a track sometime :niceone:

[jonbuoy]

Are you really asking why your head is telling you to slow down on an approach to a blind corner on the road?

[slofox]

Some degree of caution entering blind corners when you are on the highway is a bloody good thing in my book. Many years ago I had a very lucky escape on such a corner when a kid ran out of a driveway...never forgotten that lesson. Can't be having with reckless riding causing death...

I agree with the comments recommending just taking it easy and letting confidence rebuild in its own good time. Coz it will.

[crazyhorse]

You should always enter the corner at a slower speed than pullling out of it (depending on the tightness of the corner), and I feel you may have once entered it too quick a while ago, panicked and probably locked up, therefore you've given yourself a fright. Take it slower and work back up to a even pace.

[PrincessBandit]

When you are following someone else you have the tacit assumption that "they made it through the corner therefore I will", regardless of whether you actually see them doing it or not.

Slow down and enjoy it - I don't understand why so many here feel the need to only experience enjoyment when they're screaming through twisties or unfamiliar bends. Me, I'd rather survive and gradually pick up some speed as I become more familiar with the road as I travel it more often. When riding on your own, ask yourself whether pushing the envelope is more important than staying alive. If you feel you can't do what you once used to do then go with the flow for a while and I'm sure the analysis of it will become clear to you.

[Corse1]

I'm with princess bandit. I have no problem like yourself following people through blind corners at speed. It is the subconsious telling me that they got through so its ok. I am definately slower and more cautious when out in front.

So when i'm in a group I do not lead very often and I enjoy the ride. When I am on my own I use the slow in and fast out theory and still enjoy the ride concentrating on lines and power delivery on the exit trying to be as smooth as possible.

When I can I try and get to the track.

You just need to relax. I think you were as other people here have alluded to here GOING TOO FAST anyway.

[sinfull]

OMG i'm going in too hot and i'm going to run off the road into THAT ditch moments ?

[MSTRS]

Sounds to me like you've learned enough to get to the point where you now know that 'it could happen to me'...
That is a good thing, because it will help to keep you safe(r). Slowing down is always the right start, followed by learning the skill of ThePace TM. This does NOT mean going fast...it means going smooooth. Learn to cut back your top speed, increase your 'bottom' speed, use your engine/gears for speed control not your brakes, and adjust your focus further ahead on the road (this replaces the function (in your head) of the lead bike you mentioned).
The other thing I'd recommend, if you don't already, is to adopt the Late Apex style of riding. Approach a corner on a line that will be on the outside of that corner and stay there as long as possible, or until you can see the corner exit before getting on the gas. Because you are wide in the corner, you can see the maximum possible amount of road plus you give yourself better visibility to approaching vehicles.

[CookMySock]

OMG i'm going in too hot and i'm going to run off the road into THAT ditch moments ?Trackday will fix that.

Steve

[onearmedbandit]

Trackday will fix that.

Steve

Well not by itself. You could go and do a 'trackday' and still come out no better unless you understand what is actually happening yourself and learn from it or have someone who does understand teaching you. I can't dance for shit. Putting me in a ballroom isn't going to make me a better dancer.

[FROSTY]

I can't be bothered waffling on. so
1) SLOW DOWN on the road
2) slow down into Jennian (castrol is the last corner before the back straight) -slow in Fast out
3) RELAX -Im pretty sure part of you're issue is you are tense
4) I can't believe I'm saying this -don't think about it so much. (specific advice for the OP in THIS situation. )

[george formby]

I think you have developed survival instincts. Since I cast off my youthful bulletproof vest, my focus riding on the road is always "what if". I cannot ride into a blind corner to fast to avoid a hazard, brain say's noooooo. Their are plenty of corners round here which I know can be taken far faster than I do but I do not gamble when I'm riding. I do try to ride a line which allows me to come out of a corner hot though.
I think you should enjoy riding well, rather than fast. Take pride in being safe & get your knee down when you can see through a series of bends. Knowing you can ride quick is almost as good as doing it, knowing your riding well is best of all.

[spajohn]

I've reached the conclusion I need to take a step back to move ahead.

I recommend some of Keith Code's books or DVD's. It's the basis for the Californian Super Bike school that recently opened in NZ, but has been around for sometime overseas. Have a look here (although I'm sure you can find it locally):
https://secure.echoalley.com/superbikeschool/store/

[MSTRS]

... get your knee down...

Leave that for the track...

[Hoon]

The Keith Code books address all this. You need to overcome your fears. Fear is natural but in most cases unfounded. It takes mental discipline to fight it off but there are a few tricks to make it easier.

Look as far ahead as you can: If you look at the ground near you, everything seems to rush up more quickly and invokes your fear response. The farther ahead you look, the slower and more comfortable things seem. Exiting Castrol for example I have to force myself to (turn my head way right and) look at my exit point down the back straight instead of the apex or outside armco ripple strip, If I don't I can't convince myself to start winding on the throttle way early when I'm still pointing at the wall.

Have an exit strategy: If things go bad and you're in too deep then you need to be comfortable with your exit plan. Whether this is either to stand the bike up and emergency brake or lean over more and gas it, you need to be confident in your ability to deliver the goods. You might need to spend some carpark time practicing E braking and figure 8 knee downs. Once you know you can get out of trouble then you're not as afraid to get into it.

Reference Points: Only applicable on the track. Entry into Jenian I know exactly where I need to tip in, where I should be aiming for and where I should be half way through the entry to confirm I'm on the right track - all from little blemishes/markings on the track surface. From experience I know that if I enter on the correct line, then I'll exit on the correct line and there's nothing to worry about. All my attention can then be focussed on being fast, smooth and keeping my sphincter relaxed instead of frantically searching for a reason to sucumb to my fear and back off the throttle.

[CookMySock]

Well not by itself. You could go and do a 'trackday' and still come out no better unless you understand what is actually happening yourself and learn from it or have someone who does understand teaching you.Yeah this is true. Much of that CAN be done by yourself if you are very self-aware.



4) I can't believe I'm saying this -don't think about it so much. (specific advice for the OP in THIS situation. )Yea I was going to say that. Stop trying to ride the bike and just grab the fucker by the horns and ride its's fucking wheels off. It's a new mindset. I had to bump my teenage boy through that - he was always waiting for my permission to set off, and looking to me for my approval - until I told him to bang it in gear and fuck off down the road in it and stop thinking so much.

Steve

[Katman]

Stop trying to ride the bike and just grab the fucker by the horns and ride its's fucking wheels off.



Fuck, you talk some shit.

[nodrog]

Fuck, you talk some shit.

this is the most truthful and intelligent post in this thread.

[p.dath]

I recommend some of Keith Code's books or DVD's. It's the basis for the Californian Super Bike school that recently opened in NZ, but has been around for sometime overseas. Have a look here (although I'm sure you can find it locally):
https://secure.echoalley.com/superbikeschool/store/

I have all three of Keith's books. I'm just reading one other book, but after that I think I'll take another read through them all.


...if you don't already, is to adopt the Late Apex style of riding....

This is another thing that has slowly changed. I started with late apexing, and for whatever reason I slowly drifted into more of a "racing line" over the last year or so, not so much to go faster or anything, it just seems to have happened. Perhaps it is laziness.
They mentioned this at RRRS, and it came to my attention that I wasn't late apexing like I used to. I have recently decided to return to using late apexing for the road, because I perceive it as being safer.

[bogan]

As MSTRS says, ride smooth. Was the best advice I've ever got for riding I think, smooth is safer, speed follows from smooth riding, and smooth is more fun!

[MSTRS]

This is another thing that has slowly changed. I started with late apexing, and for whatever reason I slowly drifted into more of a "racing line" over the last year or so, not so much to go faster or anything, it just seems to have happened. Perhaps it is laziness.
They mentioned this at RRRS, and it came to my attention that I wasn't late apexing like I used to. I have recently decided to return to using late apexing for the road, because I perceive it as being safer.

When you take the racing line, 2 things happen...
1. You cannot see as far ahead in a corner, so hazards appear when you are closer to them, giving you less reaction time and space.
2. On a right hander...where's your head?? Somewhere around the same position as the head of that cager coming towards you!

[R-Soul]

Well not by itself. You could go and do a 'trackday' and still come out no better unless you understand what is actually happening yourself and learn from it or have someone who does understand teaching you. I can't dance for shit. Putting me in a ballroom isn't going to make me a better dancer.


No but going on a track will make the rest of your riding seem boring and you will not even try to go fast anymore.

I think the ART day ruined my commuting!

[rocketman1]

I have had the same feeling lately. I almost collected a car head on the Waingaro road a while back. It was because I ran wide, stuffed if I know why, but it happened , now I have got into the negative thinking that if it happened once for no apparent reason it could happen again.
I have to force myself to keep up good speed around blind corners, I have no trouble on sighted corners or race tracks.It is a head space thing. I just worry about going too fast into unknown corners, and the fear of seeing a vehicle that you are sure your are going to hit coming the otherway. I tell you... one thing... YOU NEVER forget it.

I guess that its a good thing in a way, it checks my speed.
But try not to dwell on it.
Im sure you will get over this feeling after a while ...

[Corse1]

I have had the same feeling lately. I almost collected a car head on the Waingaro road a while back. It was because I ran wide, stuffed if I know why, but it happened , now I have got into the negative thinking that if it happened once for no apparent reason it could happen again.
I have to force myself to keep up good speed around blind corners, I have no trouble on sighted corners or race tracks.It is a head space thing. I just worry about going too fast into unknown corners, and the fear of seeing a vehicle that you are sure your are going to hit coming the otherway. I tell you... one thing... YOU NEVER forget it.

I guess that its a good thing in a way, it checks my speed.
But try not to dwell on it.
Im sure you will get over this feeling after a while ...

Yes and not only that...you can be on the correct side of the road and still hit some idiot passing on a blind corner coming the other way. Followed a truck through the mamaku's the other day. There was a very large tractor and trailer that took the whole left lane. this idiot trucker pulled out to pass probably 150m from the corner.
I watched with horror as i expected a vehicle to come round the corner :shit:. I have never used my first aid ticket for a road smash. When he pulled back in he was already part way round the corner. When you travel this road frequently on bikes it makes you think. That would have been the end.

I was ok with blind corners but now I have the fear of oncoming traffic when entering blind corners. And this fatality waiting to haoppen will stick with me for a while now :shit:

[MSTRS]

I have had the same feeling lately. I almost collected a car head on the Waingaro road a while back. It was because I ran wide, stuffed if I know why, but it happened , now I have got into the negative thinking that if it happened once for no apparent reason it could happen again.
I have to force myself to keep up good speed around blind corners, I have no trouble on sighted corners or race tracks.It is a head space thing. I just worry about going too fast into unknown corners, and the fear of seeing a vehicle that you are sure your are going to hit coming the otherway. I tell you... one thing... YOU NEVER forget it.

I guess that its a good thing in a way, it checks my speed.
But try not to dwell on it.
Im sure you will get over this feeling after a while ...

There was definitely a reason. You should go back to that corner, walk through it and recall everything you were doing (speed, lane position etc). You will be able to work it out, and therefore what you should do/not do in future to avoid a repeat.
Usually when it 'goes wrong', it's because we have failed to read the road correctly. But if you don't work out why, you are doomed to repeat the failure. And might not be so lucky.
If you fear blind corners (or whatever) then riding might not be you. But never lose a healthy respect for them.

[dmoo1790]

This is another thing that has slowly changed. I started with late apexing, and for whatever reason I slowly drifted into more of a "racing line" over the last year or so, not so much to go faster or anything, it just seems to have happened. Perhaps it is laziness.

Interesting. I assume you mean you're starting the turn close to the inside of the corner to stop someone passing you up the inside :-). You don't say but I also assume you mean you're tending to run wide on the corner exit? If so then, yes, late apexing will help you hold a tighter exit. On blind corners this is what I do to help hold a tight line on the exit. But you can still avoid running wide on exit after a tight entry if you're not going too fast. I found that track days helped a lot with learning how to hold a tight exit line. Especially if your bike wants to stand up and run wide when hard on the gas.

[CookMySock]

I have had the same feeling lately. I almost collected a car head on the Waingaro road a while back. It was because I ran wide, stuffed if I know why...You got a fright and refused to steer. This usually happens when people haven't grown up with a disciplined approach to bar-steering.

Trust your tyres. Set your bike up properly. Get on the track. Get some tuition. You can work through it, but you have to commit to it and put your fears aside. The rewards are there.

Steve

[beyond]

Your subconscious is screwing you around from your low side. A very powerful thing the old mind :)
Slow down, start working on getting your lines exact again and then slowly upping the pace to where you were before. All you need to do is retrain your mind. It will take a little time but start slow and move up as you regain confidence. It will happen.

[rocketman1]

You got a fright and refused to steer. This usually happens when people haven't grown up with a disciplined approach to bar-steering.

Trust your tyres. Set your bike up properly. Get on the track. Get some tuition. You can work through it, but you have to commit to it and put your fears aside. The rewards are there.

Steve

Steve, Thanks for the note. I have covered this thread previously , fairly thoroughly and had alot of feed back.
The fact is I believe I know how to steer / countersteer, a bike . The fact is I wasnt concentrating, went a bit fast, in too higher gear, I was heading straight for the gold toyota previa, I had no time to lean more or countersteer, I sort of stood up and pushed the bike down, i guess this helped with countersteering, i just missed it the car, to this day i dont know how. I saw t he driver swerved to miss me.
Thank god he / she had quick reactions....Yeah maybe I should take some training but I have ridden for years and done several track days so I reckon I can ride pretty good. I hear 48% of bike deaths are at corners I can understand why.
I say, slow down for unknown corners and concentrate.

[CookMySock]

I sort of stood up and pushed the bike down, i guess this helped with countersteeringNo it doesn't. It makes it much worse, and very quickly.

Try this exercise and you will see why.

Ride along a straight piece of road at a sedate speed and stand up on the footpegs and then sit down, but quite far to one side. The bike will immediately tend to turn in that direction so you will be forced to countersteer it just to maintain your position on the road. Ie, if you sit to the left, you will need bar pressure on the right, and vice versa.

Now re-seat yourself even further in that direction, and notice the bike is actually tipped quite far in the opposite direction.

What I mean to illustrate is, if you continue to move your body weight one way, and tip the bike the other way, you will eventually scrape pegs while travelling in a straight line.

Now do you see what the problem is?

You must never "stand up and push the bike down" as you simply undo your efforts and increase your turn radius.

Always put your body weight on the inside of the bikes' center-of-mass line and never never outside while cornering. As an exercise, try it mid-corner - in a constant-radius turn at a constant speed, roll a trickle of throttle on and stand up and be seated further toward the inside of the corner. Note the bike position to be quite a lot more upright, bar pressure lessens or even reverses, the bike is more settled, you feel more comfortable, ground clearance increases, and you may safely tip into the corner even further should you be required to in an emergency.

hth
Steve

[Urano]

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[dangerous]

This is more a rant about a disappointment I'm experiencing with my riding at the moment, but perhaps you might be able to identify with it, and chime in....NB: I have not read any replys so might be repeating or eravelent.

Is the CBR a new ride for you?
people often have trouble with right handers, IMO most of the problem is that counter stearing means pushing on the throtle grip, this is a mentel issue because with out relising it you dont want to open the taps up while loading that arm up with presure to turn... something to think about.
In general, again IMO body position is paramont. if you are not using the uper body to stear and are leaning the bike over more than needed to corner. I see a lot of riders having issues cornering due to this.
Pivioting the uper body has a pendulim affect and gives you power stearing, with the knolage that you are not having to lean the bike so much thus subcounsiously you are not so sceard to corner.
If ya reply il try and explain further.

[CookMySock]

8 out of 10, really...

Steve

[p.dath]

Is the CBR a new ride for you?
people often have trouble with right handers, IMO most of the problem is that counter stearing means pushing on the throtle grip, this is a mentel issue because with out relising it you dont want to open the taps up while loading that arm up with presure to turn... something to think about.
In general, again IMO body position is paramont. if you are not using the uper body to stear and are leaning the bike over more than needed to corner. I see a lot of riders having issues cornering due to this.
Pivioting the uper body has a pendulim affect and gives you power stearing, with the knolage that you are not having to lean the bike so much thus subcounsiously you are not so sceard to corner.
If ya reply il try and explain further.

I've had this particular bike just over 12 months now. Since posting this thread (I think ts a month old now) I've made a number of changes (mostly thanks to fine tuning at ART days on the track).

I'm using a different grip on the throttle now (although that only has consequence when braking, and doesn't apply in this case since we are talking about cornering), I'm using a different seating position on my bike (which has resulted in me being able to grip the tank with my knees more easily), I've had my suspension adjusted (more firm now - bike doesn't bounce around as much as it used to) and I've returned to using late apexing on the road (had gotten lazy and was using more of a racing line), and I guess I would say I'm simply taking corners slower on the road so they are more fun to me.

I still wouldn't say I am a fan of blind corners, but I'm feeling a bit happier about them.

But do lend your words of wisdom ...

[MSTRS]

You must never "stand up and push the bike down" as you simply undo your efforts and increase your turn radius.


For once, you are almost right...
In an emergency corner situation - Lean with, or more than, the bike. Weight the OUTSIDE peg. Push harder still on the inside bar. As DMNTD says, kiss your inside mirror. Stay OFF the front brake.
...except, how do you explain 'motard style'? Cos that works too...

[Sentox]

...except, how do you explain 'motard style'? Cos that works too...

Well, motards are pretty tall, giving them a higher center of gravity and nearly unlimited ground clearance (compared to sportsbikes, anyway), so you can stay straight on the bike and let it do the leaning. The idea, afaik, is to allow for faster transitions between corners. This is just what I've gathered from reading though.

Plus, motard riders aren't so concerned about losing traction at the back.

[MSTRS]

...I've made a number of changes ...
I still wouldn't say I am a fan of blind corners, but I'm feeling a bit happier about them.

But do lend your words of wisdom ...
Good to hear. Afterall, if you don't enjoy doing something, why would you keep doing it?
Have you considered the Vanishing Point method of reading the road? There is a very interesting thread about that here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/91853-What-is-this-quot-vanishing-point-quot-nonsense)

[R-Soul]

This is more a rant about a disappointment I'm experiencing with my riding at the moment, but perhaps you might be able to identify with it, and chime in.

Recently something has gone backwards with my riding. I've started experiencing a fear reaction on corners, particularly blind corners that I can't see through, that didn't used to exist. I feel ok when I'm following someone, it's just when I'm on my own.

And it's causing me to do the wrong things. For example, I come out of a corner and discover my arms have tensed up, or I have trouble making myself keep a positive throttle in the corner, and I'm having to give extra concentration to make sure I'm looking where I want to go. These things didn't used to demand so much effort previously.

But once I'm most of the way through the corner I find myself annoyed because the corner ended up feeling easy, and I know I wasn't pushing my abilities, and the fear reaction was unwarranted.

And I guess that's the bit really annoying me - the fear reaction is un-warranted and is affecting my riding.


I did have a low-side on a corner maybe 5 months ago. I don't think it is bothering me, but perhaps something is playing games sub-consciously in the back of my head. I don't know.

I have a similar problem on AMCC ART days going down the front straight into Castrol corner. I'm confident I have the right lines, but because I can't see through the corner before I enter it I experience a fear reaction that is holding me back. I slow down without a good reason. Once I'm actually in the corner I feel fine again.

I remember the words "if your not having fun slow down until you are" ringing in my ears from AMCC ART days, and put it to the practice. I took on some deliberately twisty challenging roads recently and adopted a considerably slower pace. And the fear disappeared. And I decided to concentrate on the basics, looking through the corners, maintaining a positive throttle and keeping my arms relaxed. Maybe I need to put in some riding time like this until I build more confidence again.


I've reached the conclusion I need to take a step back to move ahead. I need to reinforce the basics again until my brain is ready to let me progress again.

Either that or back myself ...

Can I make a suggestion. You have progressed in your ability -- and your speed. Perhaps the fact that your ability and speed has increased, while your ROAD cornering technique has regressed (not apexing late) means that your brain is no longer happy wioth the amount of leeway you are affording yourself to see situations ahead.

You are in a bit of a catch 22 situation. Because you are going faster, you cannot really do the late apex thing while feeling safe at that speed (because its unnerving going late into a corner at higher speeds), so you do more of a racing line. Yet your brain doesn't like this because you can no longer see as much through the corner, which causes anxiety, so your survival reactions (SR's) kick in - notably by stiffening up on the bars.

What you need to do is continue the late apexing (because its good road technique - and good track technique according to Keith Code!) but learn to turn faster. This is an important part of riding quickly. By "turning quickly", I mean "move the bike from upright to fully leaned over as quickly as possible" . You do this by really giving a good yank on the bars. All the racers know that turning quickly is paramount for racing. Watch Rossi etc - they go from upright to knee down in half a second - we noobs on the other hand, take probably somewhere around 3-5 seconds to lay the bike down.

In this way, you get to see further through the corner before taking it, you make one turn- once (at low and smooth corner entry speed), and you get to accelerate hard out of the corner on a straighter exit line (being less leaned over) so you have a better speed for the entire straight after the corner.

The more confident you become in turning quickly, the safer you will feel going late into corners for late apexing, the less of a death grip you will have on the steering. Also if you have good technique and balance on getting your torso lower and further inside, the bike will feel more stable and in control.

Learning to turn quickly is your next bottleneck.

Does that make sense?

[R-Soul]

PS like the "new improved" R-Soul?

[Katman]

I have to force myself to keep up good speed around blind corners,


What on earth is wrong with exercising a degree of caution on blind corners?

How many more people have to die before the message sinks in?

[Sentox]

What on earth is wrong with exercising a degree of caution on blind corners?

How many more people have to die before the message sinks in?

There's two sides to it, I guess. If one is going to be honest about stopping distances, a lot of blind corners have to be taken relatively slowly. But one should still be confident in the mechanics of it.

[MSTRS]

There's two sides to it, I guess.

There is.
Success.
Or - Pain. (varies from a fright to a box)

[onearmedbandit]

people often have trouble with right handers, IMO most of the problem is that counter stearing means pushing on the throtle grip, this is a mentel issue because with out relising it you dont want to open the taps up while loading that arm up with presure to turn... something to think about.


This is the one area I think I have an advantage over most other riders. Having only one arm at the controls, and of course it's a busy one hand with throttle application, countersteering, braking and clutch duties all keeping it in constant demand, then coupled with a 160hp bike, has meant that I'm very aware of my countersteering and throttle application. The whole process to me seems to slow, and I can constantly make minor adjustments to any input without upsetting another. Very very satisfying.

[CookMySock]

What on earth is wrong with exercising a degree of caution on blind corners?Nothing at all.

The problem is, even if you are touring quietly everywhere, one day you will pop around an unfamiliar corner and have it tighten on you. It's not about riding too fast, its just statistically one day you will get that one-in-a-million time where it catches you out.

So the discussion continues - getting such a scare and not brain locking - how to achieve that.

Steve

[Katman]

The problem is, even if you are touring quietly everywhere, one day you will pop around an unfamiliar corner and have it tighten on you. It's not about riding too fast, its just statistically one day you will get that one-in-a-million time where it catches you out.



Only if you're not concentrating on what you're doing.

[CookMySock]

Only if you're not concentrating on what you're doing.Perhaps that would be suitable for riders who tour quietly everywhere. I do not, and therefore I'd rather implement a solution that serves me.

Steve

[Katman]

Perhaps that would be suitable for riders who tour quietly everywhere. I do not, and therefore I'd rather implement a solution that serves me.

Steve

Sorry, I forgot that your concentration probably doesn't extend much beyond this.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/57443871.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=8A33AE939F2E01FF19D112A347FE1EB9859B72656E78D3D8 134CAB71988C315C

[CookMySock]

Yeah shes cute isnt she! LOL.

Steve

[Voltaire]

or this:
http://www.mrwhippy.co.nz/
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol:

[Bad Gixxer]

Hey you've received lots of good advice so far in this thread - just an abstract idea that works for me. I dicovered by accident that if I wear ear plugs that cut out the vast majority of engine and wind noise (like maybe 85% compared to just wearing a helmet) then i have a much smoother ride on both the road and the track. Obviously wearing good plugs doesn't make you ride better or improve your skills directly. I think it's that when you say chop it down 3 or 4 gears and pulling high revs, the lack of noise just takes that sense of urgency away from you - you feel more comfortable and less likely to tense up. You can still hear enough to know what's going on, but i tend to feel the feedback from the bike rather than hear it. Certainly helps me ride better.

And when you get off the bike you also feel more rested if your ears haven't been pumelled by 100plus decibels for the last 90 minutes.

[Katman]

I think it's that when you say chop it down 3 or 4 gears and pulling high revs, the lack of noise just takes that sense of urgency away from you

I won't agree with your reasoning but I'll agree that earplugs certainly help keep me focused on what I'm doing.

[p.dath]

Hey you've received lots of good advice so far in this thread - just an abstract idea that works for me. I dicovered by accident that if I wear ear plugs that cut out the vast majority of engine and wind noise (like maybe 85% compared to just wearing a helmet) then i have a much smoother ride on both the road and the track.

I do wear ear plugs - after I learned that permanent hearing damage starts occurring after about 15 minutes of riding at 100km/h, give or take a little. It's only a small amount of damage, but after a while it all adds ups.

Check out my review:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/111391-Foam-Ear-Plugs-3M-versus-Moldex