Family law questions

[lb99]

Hey guys

i am after a bit of advice regarding family law, as my 13yo boy has indicated he'd like to spend more time with me and his stepmum, brothers and sisters ect....(we his OTHER family), naturally his mother (who I dont get on with) has hit the roof and put a kibosh on the whole idea, and seems to have put a stop to any contact other than every other weekend as per a 12yo court order, it makes it very difficult to get hold of him to get his opinion on the matter.

If he really does want me to go into bat for him, what can be done, does he have any say at all?

I am attempting to communicate and negotiate with his mum by email but I fear this will dissolve into a tug of war of epic proportions very soon.
what should I do?

[Quasievil]

I think the courts will listen to the child once they are 14 years, until then they will prolly listen to some degree but I wouldnt guarantee it being in your favour.
best thing tho is keep the boy out of it, he has said what he needs to so try and sort it without involving him to much as it is (from experience) a headfuck of epic proportions.

Try sorting it with Mum before any legal path mate.

it does suck I been there as the kid and the parent

[p.dath]

Being 13 the court would place significant weight on what the child wants. You'll need a lawyer, and the court will appoint a lawyer for the child to represent their wishes, and you need to apply for a variation of court order.

The bad news is it can take 12 to 18 months if the other party does not agree.

[scissorhands]

I'd write a heartfelt letter to the mother, repeating what is best for the boy, what he wants, the pushing away boys do to their mother at that age, and maybe his want/need for his dad.

Spend alot of time/money on the letter so it is the best. You may only get one bite at the cherry for now, so dont blow it by offending/insulting her

[SS90]

Hi mate, sorry to hear the tough news, the family court is a horrible place for a guy.

I suggest you DON'T write a "heart felt letter" to the ex, this will show her that you are weak, and she will be in a power position, and will walk all over you.

Trust me on this.

Using a Lawyer will cost you a fortune, and no matter what the outcome, the Lawyer gets paid, so make your decision wisely.

Personally, I would talk to your son when you next get to have time with him (not as soon as you see him, perhaps let him bring the subject up).

No matter what happens, you need to let your son know that you want him to stay with you, and now is the time for him to start interacting with adults, and use reason with his mother, not "emotional blackmail" ( "you don't love me" type statements, and tantrums etc).

The outcome may or may not be what you both want (you and your son that is), but he is old enough now to learn how modern adults interact with each other, and I assure you that if you are sincere in telling him you want him, and it is not worth upsetting the mother (which will start a chain of events that are catastrophic to say the least).

From the mothers prospective, she will be insulted to all buggery because he want's "to live with dad", and it makes her feel rejected as a mother, that is a powerful emotion in a woman (woman scorned and all) and it is better for her to get used to the idea that her son is "becoming a man", rather than "leaving mum to live with dad"

For your son, it as much about "living with dad", as it is "becoming a man" (independence, but with back up!) I feel that if your wife can see it like this, she would be more supportive than you can imagine!

Good luck.

[Ronin]

+ 1 to the softly softly approach. The well written, well considered letter is a good idea. Emphasis that it has nothing to do with any issues (real or imagined) between the two of you and everything to do with your son, his well being and his wishes. Should it go to court that letter and your son's wishes will have a great deal of weight placed on them. Don't let it get personal no matter how much you may want to or how much you may be provoked.

Good luck and I hope it works out.

[kevfromcoro]

Tell her to go and fuck herself....

Sick of women using the law to manipulate men......and thats whats she is doing....

Bout time the matromail laws got changed in NZ............................

[Genie]

I'm sorry for your son...and you of course.....damn selfishness on the part of mother to not listen to what her son wants....love?????

I am so sick of hearing and seeing these situations. Isn't the role of the parent to do what is best for the child?

Even if, in her eyes, you're an AHole, you' re his dad and it is extremely disgusting for any person to deny a child access to their parent. FFS, sorry I'm getting grumpy.

As it sounds she is not an approachable type, ring the family court and find out your options. As he is 13, he is old enough to make some of his own decisions. I'd stop with the emailing as many times people write without thinking clearly and you could make things worse, i.e. tug of war!!!

I hate mum's that do this shit!

[Tank]

I have no idea - so will keep my 2 cents to myself (for once) Its a terrible situation and rips at the very core of a father. I hope you and your son end up with the very best possible outcome!

Stay strong!

[MSTRS]

Tough one!!
Any dealings between the lad's parents are not likely to end well, from the sound of it, so that leaves the lad using his court-appointed lawyer to work on his behalf. Perhaps you should ring a family court and find out what/how this can be done.

[MsKABC]

You are entitled to apply for a parenting order to change the terms of your existing agreement. The family court will most likely send you off to counselling (mediation) to try and resolve it first. It will cost money and take time, and be very distressing for all involved. I'd suggest you consult a family lawyer and draft up a letter laying down your concerns and explaining the alternative if your ex does not co-operate. There is a fine line between protecting your children from emotional harm and rolling over and taking it up the ***. Your ex will be upset at the prospect of losing child support, no doubt, because if you have your son half the time, you are not liable for any. Good luck. Unfortunately, some things in life just never get any easier :(

[MSTRS]

YYour ex will be upset at the prospect of losing child support, no doubt, because if you have your son half the time, you are not liable for any.

Really? I thought the formula still applied, but each have to pay the other, instead of one way only. Of course, if their incomes/allowed expenses are the same, then the payments cancel each other and no payments are required.

[MsKABC]

Really? I thought the formula still applied, but each have to pay the other, instead of one way only. Of course, if their incomes/allowed expenses are the same, then the payments cancel each other and no payments are required.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. He could make a counter-claim against her to offset what he pays her.

[p.dath]

Really? I thought the formula still applied, but each have to pay the other, instead of one way only. Of course, if their incomes/allowed expenses are the same, then the payments cancel each other and no payments are required.

I'm in that situation and have 50/50 care. I'm earn more than my ex, so I end up paying her every month still (just the difference).

[lb99]

hey guys, cheers for the positive replies, the heartfelt letter, was sent before I posted, but unfortunatly I dont hold much hope, as the terms and conditions have always been dictated to me in the past. Now I want to know what it feels like to hold the controls for a while.
i really hope it never gets to a family lawyer as we are two mature adults so should be able to come to an agreement.
I use email to communicate because I can save it and also proof read before sending to make sure I stay proffesional and considerate at all times (not suer if that happens at the other end though)

[p.dath]

hey guys, cheers for the positive replies, the heartfelt letter, was sent before I posted, but unfortunatly I dont hold much hope, as the terms and conditions have always been dictated to me in the past. Now I want to know what it feels like to hold the controls for a while.
i really hope it never gets to a family lawyer as we are two mature adults so should be able to come to an agreement.
I use email to communicate because I can save it and also proof read before sending to make sure I stay proffesional and considerate at all times (not suer if that happens at the other end though)

I never communicate with the ex unless I have to now - because anything you put in a "heart felt" message could be twisted and used as evidence against you in court. Don't give information away that may be used in a trial.

The process is long. Start it now. Make an application ot the court. You can always reach a private agreement and withdraw the action, but don't be in the situation 6 months later and no farther ahead because you "thought" you might be able to work it through.

[Maki]

People who play games with each other at the expense of their children should be shot. A 13 year old should see his father if and when he wants to. The best of luck to you, lb99

[lb99]

I agree, I am stepping up to the plate for my boy, not to cause disruption to his mum and their family unit.

[p.dath]

I agree, I am stepping up to the plate for my boy, not to cause disruption to his mum and their family unit.

Note that legally your position is quite strong (based on what you have said, and assuming there aren't any issues of violence, child abuse, etc), and as it works its way through the legal the process the child's mother may come to a reaslisation their case is weak, and may give in rather than spend money on a loosing case.

I would be very very surprised if you did not win easily.

In my case, it took me 18 months waiting for my day in family court, and then 30 minutes before the case started my ex agreed to what I had suggested in my very first affidavit. In her case she liked having power over me and used our children to get it. Now I have a court order in my favour she has no power at all, and it has completely changed things for the better.

[peasea]

hey guys, cheers for the positive replies, the heartfelt letter, was sent before I posted, but unfortunatly I dont hold much hope, as the terms and conditions have always been dictated to me in the past. Now I want to know what it feels like to hold the controls for a while.
i really hope it never gets to a family lawyer as we are two mature adults so should be able to come to an agreement.
I use email to communicate because I can save it and also proof read before sending to make sure I stay proffesional and considerate at all times (not suer if that happens at the other end though)

Hey mate, been there, done that. It sounds like you have your head screwed on.

When my ex went for full custody of our two (then teenaged) daughters (without telling THEM) the court decided to go with me in asking what the girls wanted. I'd need to check but I think they were 13 and 15 at the time. The girls chose more time with me, which is what they got and my ex certainly did NOT get full custody. The beak actually asked "why is this even before me? Teenagers vote with their feet."

Even if the court says "no way, your boy stays put" etc etc you just can't keep a good teenager down. He'll be knocking on your door before you know it, court order or not. If the ex opposes it your lad will be delivered by express mail.

I feel for you dude, it isn't a pleasant road. Good luck and keep us posted.

[lb99]

Note that legally your position is quite strong (based on what you have said, and assuming there aren't any issues of violence, child abuse, etc), and as it works its way through the legal the process the child's mother may come to a reaslisation their case is weak, and may give in rather than spend money on a loosing case.

I would be very very surprised if you did not win easily.

In my case, it took me 18 months waiting for my day in family court, and then 30 minutes before the case started my ex agreed to what I had suggested in my very first affidavit. In her case she liked having power over me and used our children to get it. Now I have a court order in my favour she has no power at all, and it has completely changed things for the better.

nah no violence, no serious history, was a loose unit in my teens and early twenties(ask fatzx10r) , that about it, no reply to my last polite email as yet...

[rustic101]

I am 100 percent sure he can get his own free lawyer. And the X can't do a thing to stop it....My kids had one, but mother manipulated too much - o well.

http://newzealand.govt.nz/browse/kids-youth/your-rights/

[lb99]

I am 100 percent sure he can get his own free lawyer. And the X can't do a thing to stop it....My kids had one, but mother manipulated too much - o well.

http://newzealand.govt.nz/browse/kids-youth/your-rights/

hey a link, cool, great website dude.
just goes to show I have been way too laid back for way too long

[p.dath]

I am 100 percent sure he can get his own free lawyer. And the X can't do a thing to stop it....My kids had one, but mother manipulated too much - o well.

http://newzealand.govt.nz/browse/kids-youth/your-rights/

Without knowing his financial situation, I'm 90% sure he can't, especially after the recent legeal aide shake up. For non-criminal cases legal aide is a "loan".

My ex tried to get it, and even flaunted to me she was going to get free legal help and I was going to have to pay, and then discovered it was a loan and she was going to be made to pay it back. Oh how suddenly that tune stopped.

[crazyhorse]

Really? I thought the formula still applied, but each have to pay the other, instead of one way only. Of course, if their incomes/allowed expenses are the same, then the payments cancel each other and no payments are required.

The formula only applies if the parties have opted to go through IRD. If a private arrangement is made, then both parties can decide to only go halves of costs affected, such as school fees, trips, music lessons, sports etc. Friends of mine, go week about, and have never paid the other a cent, but distribute the cost of extra activities amoungst them. They each buy clothes for the children too. It's only when IRD get involved, that things can and do go pear shaped.

[crazyhorse]

Hey guys

i am after a bit of advice regarding family law, as my 13yo boy has indicated he'd like to spend more time with me and his stepmum, brothers and sisters ect....(we his OTHER family), naturally his mother (who I dont get on with) has hit the roof and put a kibosh on the whole idea, and seems to have put a stop to any contact other than every other weekend as per a 12yo court order, it makes it very difficult to get hold of him to get his opinion on the matter.

If he really does want me to go into bat for him, what can be done, does he have any say at all?

I am attempting to communicate and negotiate with his mum by email but I fear this will dissolve into a tug of war of epic proportions very soon.
what should I do?

I feel for you and your predicament. Thankfully my ex husband and I were amicable, and I allowed daily phone calls, and he'd call in for coffees, before and after work to see the children. Just because we had our problems, did not mean he had no right to be their father or in their lives. To this day, I can still phone him up for a chat and will discuss any issue with the kids that either one of us may have. We used to go to parent teacher interviews, on occassion, we would meet with the kids somewhere at a irish pub or something - made the kids know that although we are both in other relationships, the four of us are and always will be the family unit and the two parents they can rely on. I realise this is a rare thing, and by no means has it ever been hassel free. But at the end of the day, they are OUR kids, and he is at much in their lives for the same reason as I am.

I hope you manage to sort it - I cannot give you any advice as I have not had to go down that track, although I do know of others who have lost their house trying to fight an ex for custody. NEVER put the mother down to your child, and perhaps tell him that when he is older, he can live with you - may not happen until he is bigger than his mum, and wants to run away and move in with you when he feels he is more in control - or out of control as a teenager can be. Good luck

[MSTRS]

i really hope it never gets to a family lawyer as we are two mature adults so should be able to come to an agreement.
Of course. But in situations like this, it is rare to find BOTH parties being mature. All too often, the one with the kids makes the rules, uses the kids as a weapon for revenge or otherwise makes life difficult for the accessing parent.
You are in this situation, and no matter how reasonable you are, you will get shit upon, unless you involve the family court. You may still get shit on there, but it's much less likely


The formula only applies if the parties have opted to go through IRD. If a private arrangement is made, ...

Of course, to this as well. A private agreement that both parties are happy with is best for all. Hey - they may even not pay anything at all, as such, if it suits them.
I was talking about when some kind of maintenance order is in place, with IRD as collecting agent.

[crazyhorse]

Of course, to this as well. A private agreement that both parties are happy with is best for all. Hey - they may even not pay anything at all, as such, if it suits them.
I was talking about when some kind of maintenance order is in place, with IRD as collecting agent.

I would hate to have had to deal with things like that - glad my divorce was amicable and in the eyes of our kids, its worked out well

[lb99]

well its been a few days now, no replies to emails, he's not replying to texts or phone messages. Stepdaughter has left a message on his facebook to find out if he ok...

[MSTRS]

Mum has banned him from the computer, and he has no credit left on his phone? There is always the landline...if ex has one. No laws etc against phoning your kid/s, is there?

[lb99]

:D got a quick txt, hes coming on Sunday for the day, hes not really supposed to but hes coming anyway :moon: good boy

[lb99]

Mum has banned him from the computer, and he has no credit left on his phone? There is always the landline...if ex has one. No laws etc against phoning your kid/s, is there?

the landline works, but calls get screened/censored

[lb99]

is great to see so much support from all the chicks out there, maybe I should assemble a harem of angry biker gals and conduct a raid, he would think that was soooo cool. lol

[MSTRS]

:D got a quick txt, hes coming on Sunday for the day, hes not really supposed to but hes coming anyway :moon: good boy

Exc! Your boy has his own mind, and is not scared to use it. That bodes well for him, at least.

[Ronin]

is great to see so much support from all the chicks out there, maybe I should assemble a harem of angry biker gals and conduct a raid, he would think that was soooo cool. lol

Awesome news about Sunday mate. Good on your boy.

[Winston001]

I feel for you and your son. At age 13 the Court will listen to your son and will give weight to his wishes.

From what you say there aren't any reasons for your son to be kept away from you. The Court wants both parents
involved in children's lives so that works in your favour.

You need a family lawyer. The process is that you apply for a Variation of the existing Order/Agreement.
Assuming your ex defends the application - she might not once she gets advice - the Court will send you
both to counselling. Often this does the trick.

If counselling doesn't work then mediation is the next step. This is usually conducted by a Family Court judge
but the Courts are so jammed up that senior lawyers are now doing this (paid by the Justice Department I think).

A long way beyond that is a Court Hearing and that could certainly take 18 months.

At some stage the Court may appoint a lawyer to represent your son but this isn't automatic. The judge may decide the issues are clear enough. As for this being free - not always. The costs of counsel for the child are to be met by the parties - but only if the judge orders this. Depends upon the case and the financial situation.

However 90% of cases never go to a hearing so the odds are on your side. Best of luck.

[ynot slow]

Can assure you it will end up in court,due to the fact it went to court at the start(I pressume)for access,but who knows she may listen,just have to EMPHASIZE it is for the child not the adults.

And assuming both are working the cost of lawyers may mean you can sort it out mutually,if not and she has access to legal aid(s) she can just drag it out as if you're working you pay she don't(my personal experience),re-iterate it's for the childs best interests,hell how many kids go awol so to speak(mentally)at this time of life facing crap from parents enforced on them,best of luck.

And hopefully his mum will listen to her son and his wants,hell she will still see him.

[scissorhands]

is great to see so much support from all the chicks out there, maybe I should assemble a harem of angry biker gals and conduct a raid, he would think that was soooo cool. lol

Dont think harem is the right word. Even if you now have the upper hand for a change

Since your boy is half your ex wife in blood, making an extra effort to do the right thing by your ex wife, could make for a happier family and children. If not, you can sleep more peaceful if your trying to heal the wounds, rather than keep them open.

[lb99]

....an extra effort to do the right thing by your ex wife, could make for a happier family and children. If not, you can sleep more peaceful if your trying to heal the wounds, rather than keep them open.

always have tried my best to do the right thing by the ex, she has rights too. We both moved on and got on with our lives, seems she took some baggage though.

the harem would have to be led by my wife though

[yungatart]

Can your 13 yo son sit down with his Mum and tell her what he would like to happen regarding his living arrangements? Calmly and rationally, of course!
It is so common for boys of that age to want to have more contact with their dad. It is part of their growing up. (Read Celia Lashlie)
Good luck to you all, I hope it gets sorted soon.