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View Full Version : US study shows ABS ‘reduces accidents by 37%’



Bob
1st April 2010, 00:16
According to a study undertaken by the US Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, bikes with antilock brakes are 37% less likely to be involved in fatal crashes than those without them.

Motorcycle models with antilock brakes are also said to have 22% fewer damage claims per year per insured vehicle.

shafty
1st April 2010, 08:11
Very interesting......................... :rockon:

The Stranger
1st April 2010, 08:19
On the face of it that's very interesting. Have you a source (hopefully with a littie more information) please?

Bob
1st April 2010, 09:34
On the face of it that's very interesting. Have you a source (hopefully with a littie more information) please?

This should do the trick!

http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr033110.html

SPman
1st April 2010, 13:52
I think it's generally accepted now, that ABS will become standard, by design or legislation, on most bikes within the next 5-6yrs......

Ocean1
1st April 2010, 15:52
Lies, Damn lies and Statistics.

Correlation doesn't infer a causal link, it's at least as liekly that bikes with ABS are owned by riders 22% less likley to crash.

Won't let that stop them though...

CookMySock
1st April 2010, 21:18
Now we need auto-steer, to stop people standing the bike up in fright mid-corner.

Steve

Urano
4th April 2010, 05:53
to me is nothing unexpected...
our community has talked a lot about abs as safety device, and after years of discussion the answer is always "buy the abs".
i've had a er6f in this two years, and despite i was in doubt at last i took it without.
now, after two years and having sold it, i can say i've been stupid.
i won't do the same error again, and my next bike WILL HAVE the abs.

if there will be a track day and i'll want to push the edge, well, it will be sufficient to pull out the fuse...
there's no real world situation which the abs is a downside in...

Pathos
4th April 2010, 23:00
I you don't feel you can brake sufficiently and safely without a disability device then by all means go for it.

I really don't get ABS myself, I don't like my bike making decisions for me. When you have brakes like those on the 636, decent tyres and suspension you know how far you can push it and when its going to let go. If you don't there something wrong or the bikes just cheap (but the elcheapo GS500 is fine). I'm probably more likely to go over the bars than slide the front in the dry, the back isn't a problem under hard braking.


there's no real world situation which the abs is a downside in...

Complexity = lower reliability.
I'd hate ABS to kick in or jam the brakes when it doesn't need to ... not that its very likely but I have suspicions about things with electrical circuits. Especially on bikes. And you will get in to a habit of relying on the ABS to make your braking decisions for you.

MaxB
4th April 2010, 23:17
This sounds a biy dodgy to me.

Could be that ABS is generally only available on bigger bikes and super tourers implying that ABS users are older more experienced riders?

I always get a bit jittery when I hear insurance companies start getting involved in policy making.

SPman
5th April 2010, 00:26
From VERY experienced riders who have used the Honda Sportsbike and BMW 1000 ABS, on wet tracks and roads, in several tests I have read, they are of the opinion that it is a definite advantage! It enables braking at angles and under conditions that would have most riders down and out!

Urano
5th April 2010, 02:44
I you don't feel you can brake sufficiently and safely without a disability device then by all means go for it.

you are experienced and a very good rider. think how many riders are at your level and how many well below instead, think how many ride a bike without good tyres, good brake and good suspensions and now think if for all of them abs would make any sense or not...



Complexity = lower reliability.

very, very true.
could you name me at least ONE case of an incident caused by abs malfunction?
not "my cousin said that once upon a time he saw someone that told him that he knew a college roommate that read that a biker..." no, please. have you seen directly an accident or read on a newspaper that an abs caused the incident?
if the unit is gone the worst thing to happen is that you have to brake without abs...


not that its very likely but I have suspicions about things with electrical circuits.

:D funny, written on a pc....



And you will get in to a habit of relying on the ABS to make your braking decisions for you.

this is a good point. in no case abs can be better than a safe drive course, or a little track experience.
but when you are commuting to home, friday night, after a work week, you are tired, you are thinking about your dinner and your children, you are waving that nice blond on the car, you have maybe an headache or a cold, you are still shouting in your head with your stupid boss, there's a little fog...
will you have the exact same capacity in an emergency brake than you would in a sunny sunday track morning?
i will not...

YellowDog
5th April 2010, 06:23
Well I have ABS. I miss not being able to lock the back wheel and swing the back end round to do my party piece stop. But then I really did grow out of that quite a few years back.

IME in 9,999 times out of 10,000 braking situations my bike won't use ABS. The bike brakes normally in the same way that it always has.

BUT for the very odd occasion whereby you are being forced to tackle an unforseen emergency situation, typically on a wet road, then ABS is pretty damn good and can help stop you going down. So from that point of view it is pretty damn good.

I have had two situations in two years where ABS has cut in and helped. I am not saying that I would definitely have gone down as I may have been able to regain control. I'm glad that I didn't have to find out the hard way.

I guess I have modified my style slightly with ABS and I do use the back brake more than I used to which gives better control. But then I have ridden other bikes without ABS and haven't had a problem.

I certainly do agree with the assertion that ABS should not be a substitute for better rider skills. Learning to emergency brake without ABS should be mandatory.

Also, ABS won't stop you taking a corner badly or riding too fast in unsafe conditions, so its safety appeal is fairly limited. Some of the wheel lock and down type incidents reported on here over the years may have benefitted from ABS.

Hinny
5th April 2010, 09:51
[QUOTE=Urano;1129706721...
there's no real world situation which the abs is a downside in...[/QUOTE]

Apparently this is not an opinion shared by Honda's design engineers.
I have read enough anti-ABS copy to believe that any move to legislate mandatory inclusion of ABS on motorcycles could be a little premature.
I think more investigation may be necessary before this move can be contemplated.

YellowDog
5th April 2010, 11:59
Based upon the information provided, an insurance premium reduction for ABS equipped bikes would be nice :)

Pathos
5th April 2010, 20:26
I'll admit to be a bit anti ABS just because of the suggestion that its going to be forced on people.

I have lost traction under braking before that resulted in the bike going down. That was back on my fxr150 when trying to outbrake a suv that hadn't indicated to enter a driveway but I was following too close. ABS would have kept the bike upright but may have then hit the SUV...not sure really.


very, very true.
could you name me at least ONE case of an incident caused by abs malfunction?
not "my cousin said that once upon a time he saw someone that told him that he knew a college roommate that read that a biker..." no, please. have you seen directly an accident or read on a newspaper that an abs caused the incident?
if the unit is gone the worst thing to happen is that you have to brake without abs...

google "abs recall" too many manufacturers to list here

ABS inhibiting braking
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/2005/gm_abs.html

ABS locking brakes
http://www.britannica.com/bps/additionalcontent/18/24320144/Chrysler-recall-is-aimed-at-fixing-ABS-software

Americans are worse than the Japs of course but toyota is in real strife right now because because of their cars trying to be too clever.


:D funny, written on a pc....
I don't trust it for a second...full of bugs.


but when you are commuting to home, friday night, after a work week, you are tired, you are thinking about your dinner and your children, you are waving that nice blond on the car, you have maybe an headache or a cold, you are still shouting in your head with your stupid boss, there's a little fog...
will you have the exact same capacity in an emergency brake than you would in a sunny sunday track morning?
i will not...
No I wouldn't either.... will ABS fix this situation? I slow down instead.

98tls
5th April 2010, 20:38
Fwiw theres plenty of tests been done in bike mags where ABS equiped bikes have been outbraked by non equiped.Personally it matters little to me,traction control,Abs,fly by wire this that and everything else may be all well and good on a racetrack but in the real world no thanks its seems as much fun as a convertible car to me.

Urano
5th April 2010, 22:35
I'll admit to be a bit anti ABS just because of the suggestion that its going to be forced on people.

i agree. not to be mandatory: bikes are different from cars. it should be mandatory a safety drive course, and ideally a drive check every 2 years.
but in any case i'd buy it... ;)



ABS would have kept the bike upright but may have then hit the SUV...not sure really.

so the problem is not "abs yes/abs no" but "keep the right safety distance" and position.



google "abs recall" too many manufacturers to list here

cars. shitty cars, actually... :D :D
but don't want to hide behind a finger, there are recalls for bmw bikes too.
and in our forum there are one or two cases of abs malfuction, never went in a accident. as usual i've been a bit exagerated but the end is the same, like a vaccine: not completely without risk, but way better than not to have it...


I don't trust it for a second...full of bugs.
:D :D :D :D
buy a mac!
with abs... :laugh:

The Stranger
5th April 2010, 22:52
there's no real world situation which the abs is a downside in...

A relatively recent comparison of models sold both with ABS and without ABS showed that all but most BMW models with ABS took LONGER to stop than those without ABS.
No, I don't currently have a source for it, hopefully google will reveal that.
However, approaching a "T" intersection and wishing to stop in time but ABS engages is NOT good. Sure you have control of the steering and you don't lock up, but you blow straight through the intersection.
Yes, a real world experience. Screw ABS, unless I'm buying a BMW.

Urano
6th April 2010, 01:06
A relatively recent comparison of models sold both with ABS and without ABS showed that all but most BMW models with ABS took LONGER to stop than those without ABS.
No, I don't currently have a source for it, hopefully google will reveal that.

found it.
2003. little differences at low speed.
but also:
http://www.cycleworld.com/assets/download/0509_bng_brakingPerformanceComp.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zv3Sacl7JQ
http://www.bikesafer.com/abs.html in particular: "except for true experts, operating in perfect conditions, most riders in ambient conditions will perform much better in emergency stopping with ABS"
http://motorcycle-intelligence.com/motorcycle-anti-lock-braking-system-abs/37/ take a look at the oldest comment: "I teach a hundred MSF courses to 1,000 students every year. Many riders use their own motorcycle for the course. I have observed differences in how well the ABS systems work from bike to bike. BMW has the ABS system down to an art. It is not possible to stop faster because of traction limitations. Other ABS-equipped motorcycles, such as the Yamaha FJR1300ABS or Honda VFR, Gold Wing or ST1300 stop well, but in a measureably longer distance than the BMWs. But any kind of ABS is better than none in an emergency, when our brains tell our hands to grab the front brake lever, causing the front tire to lock up and the bike to low-side."

that's what i think...

monkeymcbean
7th April 2010, 19:40
I've got ABS on mine, I still don't feel im better off in any way as far as braking.

ABS can be a bit quirky as far as it can extend braking distances if it detects anything odd happening with the wheels, like having to use the brakes hard, over bumpy uneven asphalt can cause the abs to kick in extending braking time, sometimes just when you don't need it.

I just try to ride as per normal, keeping distances from vehicles in front and keep alert.

SPman
15th April 2010, 13:41
Bikes currently sold with ABS or ABS option
Aprilia


Mana 850 GT
Shiver 750 GT

BMW


F650GS (Optional)
F800GS (Optional)
F800R (Optional)
F800S (Optional)
F800ST (Optional)
HP2 Megamoto (Optional)
HP2 Sport (Optional)
K1300R (Optional)
K1300S (Optional)
K1300GT
K1300GT SE
R1200GS (Optional)
R1200GS Adventure (Optional)
R1200RT
R1200RT SE
R1200R (Optional)
R1200R SE (Optional)
S1000RR (Race ABS Optional)

Ducati


Multistrada 1200S


Harley Davidson


CVO Ultra Classic Electra Glide
Electra Glide Classic (Optional)
Electra Glide Standard (Optional)
Electra Glide Ultra Limited
Night Rod Special (Optional)
Road Glide (Optional)
Road Glide Cuom (Optional)
Road King (Optional)
Road King Classic (Optional)
Road King Custom (Optional)
Street Glide (Optional)
Ultra Classic Electra Glide (Optional)
V-Rod (Optional)
V-Rod Muscle (Optional)

Honda


CB1000R ABS
CB1300S ABS
CBF600S ABS
CB600FA Hornet ABS
CBF1000 ABS
CBR600RR C-ABS
CBR1000RR Fireblade C-ABS
DN-01
FJS600 ABS Silver Wing
Gold Wing
NT700V Deauville
ST1300 ABS Pan European
VFR800 ABS
VFR1200F
VT750C Shadow ABS
XL1000V ABS Varadero
XL700V Transalp ABS

Kawasaki


ER-6f (Optional)
Versys (Optional)
VN1700 Classic Tourer
VN1700 Voyage

Moto Guzzi


Norge 1200

Suzuki


GSX1250FA
Bandit 650SA
Bandit 1250SA/Z
Bandit 1250GT
Burgman 650 Executive
Burgman 400ZA
V-Strom 650GT/A

Triumph


Rocket III Roadster/Touring
Sprint ST
Thunderbird (Optional)
Tiger/ SE

Victory


Vision Tour

Yamaha


Fazer8 ABS
FZ1 ABS
FZ1 Fazer ABS
FJR1300 Standard
FJR1300 Electric Shift Standard
XJ6 ABS
XJ6 Diversion ABS
XJ6 Diversion F ABS

Devil
18th April 2010, 10:22
A relatively recent comparison of models sold both with ABS and without ABS showed that all but most BMW models with ABS took LONGER to stop than those without ABS..

I'm guessing that comparison is well out of date with the rate that bike ABS systems are evolving. I was reading a test of the latest K1300S with abs and in every situation it was outbraking the bike magazines benchmark Daytona 675. Same situation with the S1000R, new fireblade etc.

Criticism's were justified just a few years ago, but now, with the latest generation ABS systems you'd be hard pressed to beat an ABS bike in a real world test.

Brian d marge
18th April 2010, 19:09
Bikes currently sold with ABS or ABS option
Aprilia



Mana 850 GT
Shiver 750 GT


BMW


[LIST]
F650GS (Optional)
F800GS (Opti

[/COLOR][/LEFT]

Bsa used Anti lock brakes on most of the Bantam range , and I must say it did reduce injury accident quite a bit

Stephen

p.dath
18th April 2010, 19:22
I think some brands of bikes have an ABS system that is still in development (aka, needs more "work"), but on the whole, I'd like my next bike to have ABS and integrated braking.

bogan
18th April 2010, 19:28
toyota is in real strife right now because because of their cars trying to be too clever.

actually it had very little to do with the 'cleverness' it was a mechanical jam-up in the throttle pedal bit, fixed by simply shimming it out a bit I believe.

I agree the study does not show that ABS reduces accident by 37%, it merely shows riders of bike with ABS have 37% fewer accidents.

But I'd have one with abs, I just trust the electronics to do a better job of braking than I could, though maybe its cos I'm an electronics engineer :shutup::yes:

Nonbeliever
19th April 2010, 10:12
22% less premium? I doubt it somehow.
Insurance pirates

gunnyrob
20th April 2010, 17:37
I've got ABS on the mighty GS & it's saved my arse. Think what you like, but I'm sticking with it from now on.....