Pete Bethune - Should have got off the boat when he was offered

[Tank]

The Japanese have announced their charges against New Zealand anti-whaling protester Pete Bethune.

Japan is laying five charges against Mr Bethune over his boarding of the Shonan Maru 2 in the Southern Ocean.

They accuse him of trespass, possession of a weapon, injury to persons, damage to property and obstructing the passage of a vessel.

Mr Bethune's lawyer Dan Harris says it is potentially a very serious situation.

He says he is surprised the charges have been laid, and is calling the situation absurd.

Mr Harris says there is literally no foundation to the charges, and Mr Bethune will defend them vigorously.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10635945

He had the option to get off and wouldn't do so. Bet hes thinking that wasn't a smart move about now.

Could be facing a lot of jail time - Brilliant !

[Brian d marge]

202551mmmmm whale NOM NOM NOM

Bethume , is that pronounced TIT

Stephen

[rainman]

Could be facing a lot of jail time - Brilliant !

You're actually a nasty piece of work, aren't you, Tank?

[Pussy]

Could be facing a lot of jail time - Brilliant !

Hopefully he's sharing a cell with a gay, randy, Sumo wrestler, too

[Jonno.]

http://www.sparkcaster.com/demotivational/thumbnails/hindsight.jpg (http://www.sparkcaster.com/demotivational/image.php?imageid=984)

[oldrider]

You're actually a nasty piece of work, aren't you, Tank?

C'mon rainman, the guy took the risk knowing he was wrong and was looking for kudos from his like minded counterparts!

It looks like it may well have backfired on him big time now!

Tank has equal rights to his own opinion!

I think he (Bethune) was completely out of order regarding rules of the sea, when he ran his boat under the Jap ship too, what a clunker!

But that's just MHO! :shifty: Thank goodness we are not all the same! :yes:

[Headbanger]

The man has got some huge balls.

[Maki]

Bethune faces the consequences of his stupid actions... whoop dee doo...

[Brian d marge]

Japanese prison are no holiday camp
Stephen

[rainman]

It looks like it may well have backfired on him big time now!

Tank has equal rights to his own opinion!

I'm not going to re-litigate what has been covered in previous posts, and no problem, Tank (and others) can believe Pete is in the wrong all they want.

But wishing jail time on someone for a minor misdemeanour, motivated primarily I'm sure by an instinctive hatred of anything green, just plain sucks. It shows him to be the arsehole he is. And I'm not talking about Mr Bethune.

[Tank]

I'm not going to re-litigate what has been covered in previous posts, and no problem, Tank (and others) can believe Pete is in the wrong all they want.

But wishing jail time on someone for a minor misdemeanour, motivated primarily I'm sure by an instinctive hatred of anything green, just plain sucks. It shows him to be the arsehole he is. And I'm not talking about Mr Bethune.


See you are a typical Greenie - thinking its because I dont like, well, greenies.

So wrong you are. Personally - I live a rather green lifestyle and actually do a bit to keep NZ clean. So - is it Im anti-green - no.

Could it be that a idiot (regardless of his views) deliberately breaks the law (going on board boat / tresspass etc). He gets treated with respect from the Japs (who are not breaking the law - regardless of your views), and then they even offer him a get a 'get out of jail free' card to get off the boat. PB would have made his point and been able to leave.

But nooooooo - he wants to push it and push it - and now he has to take accountability for his actions.

He deserves it and I hope they punish him to the full extent. Exactly the same as I believe ALL criminals should be treated.

Or are you happy to forgive and forget if its a crime that you support the base cause of? Its views like this that got the tree hugging hippies that damaged the 'spy base' off.

break the law - pay the price. Simple really.

[Tank]

oh and just for you rainman - I see the herald now states he is facing up to 15 years in jail. Dosnt look like he will be home any time :soon:

[Skyryder]

I'm not going to re-litigate what has been covered in previous posts, and no problem, Tank (and others) can believe Pete is in the wrong all they want.

But wishing jail time on someone for a minor misdemeanour, motivated primarily I'm sure by an instinctive hatred of anything green, just plain sucks. It shows him to be the arsehole he is. And I'm not talking about Mr Bethune.

Yep there is something seriously wrong when you wish ill on your fellow countrymen. Yep that 'brilliant' remark says it all. Was not too long ago when tank gets himself all depressed and posts up on KB for some sympathy.

No ones asking him to agree with Bethune but it's a pity he can not give others that in their 'goodwill' have given him. I think Tank is a shallow man that has run aground in the sea of life and can not get off the shoals that he creates for himself. Now that's 'brilliant' even if I do say so myself. :yes:


Skyryder

[Tank]

Yep there is something seriously wrong when you wish ill on your fellow countrymen. Yep that 'brilliant' remark says it all. Was not too long ago when tank gets himself all depressed and posts up on KB for some sympathy.

No ones asking him to agree with Bethune but it's a pity he can not give others that in their 'goodwill' have given him. I think Tank is a shallow man that has run aground in the sea of life and can not get off the shoals that he creates for himself. Now that's 'brilliant' even if I do say so myself. :yes:


Skyryder

For the record - I also think its brilliant when:
a rapist gets a full sentence and gets accountability for his actions,
a person who murders gets a full sentence and gets accountability for his actions,
a white collar crim gets a full sentence and gets accountability for his actions,
a drug dealer gets a full sentence and gets accountability for his actions,

all fucken 100% brilliant. And they all deserve 'goodwill' for something - being a husband, father, driving a fucken prius.

But thats why we have so many problems today - not enough accountability. Looks like hes getting some - and I wish more here (despite being my fellow countrymen) get the same. Or perhaps New Zelanders should be above the law?

[=cJ=]

Good to see people doing dumb shit are still occasionally having to deal with the consequences...

[Skyryder]

For the record - I also think its brilliant when:
a rapist gets a full sentence and gets accountability for his actions,
a person who murders gets a full sentence and gets accountability for his actions,
a white collar crim gets a full sentence and gets accountability for his actions,
a drug dealer gets a full sentence and gets accountability for his actions,

all fucken 100% brilliant. And they all deserve 'goodwill' for something - being a husband, father, driving a fucken prius.

But thats why we have so many problems today - not enough accountability. Looks like hes getting some - and I wish more here (despite being my fellow countrymen) get the same. Or perhaps New Zelanders should be above the law?


So let me see if I understand your post of above. This justifies your support for the Japanese over a fellow countryman who acted because the NZ government refused to do so even though his boat was a NZ registed vessel and as such had the soverignty of NZ and our laws. If indeed your post is as I think you realy need to take at hard look at yourself. Forget about the rights and wrongs of this issue...............and look deeper.

Has it ever occurred to you that if Key and his government took thjeir responsibilites a little more seriouse then Bethune may not have needed to board the Japanese whaler.

Like I said different story when you want some sympathy. Yep sure is.


Skyrder


Skyryder

[Dave Lobster]

all fucken 100% brilliant. And they all deserve 'goodwill' for something - driving a fucken prius.


Bollocks. They should get 15 years jail for driving a fucking prius. :angry:

[CookMySock]

You're actually a nasty piece of work, aren't you, Tank?


Tank has equal rights to his own opinion!Absolutely, but I think what is being suggested is Tank has little or no morals on who he attempts to crucify - even for little or no reason. It is pretty clear from Tanks' postings over time that his transgressions are not inadvertent - rather the result of some pretty serious targetting.

On this basis, I agree with rainman. On the basis of freedom of opinion, I agree with oldrider - but at what cost, and to whom? In this case, there is no cost to anyone here this time, except to witness another crusade against a human being - justified or otherwise is not the point.

Steve

[Tank]

Absolutely, but I think what is being suggested is Tank has little or no morals on who he attempts to crucify - even for little or no reason. It is pretty clear from Tanks' postings over time that his transgressions are not inadvertent - rather the result of some pretty serious targetting.

On this basis, I agree with rainman. On the basis of freedom of opinion, I agree with oldrider - but at what cost, and to whom? In this case, there is no cost to anyone here this time, except to witness another crusade against a human being - justified or otherwise is not the point.

Steve

HUH ??:blink:

edit - oh I get it. Nah - its just coz I think you are a cunt. sorry IMHO LOL

[Tank]

So let me see if I understand your post of above. This justifies your support for the Japanese over a fellow countryman who acted because the NZ government refused to do so even though his boat was a NZ registed vessel and as such had the soverignty of NZ and our laws. If indeed your post is as I think you realy need to take at hard look at yourself. Forget about the rights and wrongs of this issue...............and look deeper.

you lefties arnt big with personal responsibility are ya?

The two are separate issues - he broke the law - meh - his bad.

using your logic - lets not charge the guy who breaks into your house, because its the governments fault for taxing ciggies too much and he dosnt have enough dole for his 2 pack a day habbit.

Or lets blame the wife who wouldn't put out - leaving her husband horney - so he goes out and rapes some kid. Fucken wife huh? (ok extreme example - but you get the point).

EVEN - letting you have your one - he had the chance to leave - but wanted to be an arse and didnt when given the chance. Now he has to pay.

[Tank]

Like I said different story when you want some sympathy. Yep sure is.


Slight difference BTW - I had a lousy day. Sounded off. I didnt go out, break any laws, impose my will on others, or generally make a international incident possibly costing many, many 10's of thousands of taxpayers dollars.

OH - and I was 100% cool the next day. This fucker could be moaning for the next 15 years...

[Skyryder]

Slight difference BTW - I had a lousy day. Sounded off. I didnt go out, break any laws, impose my will on others, or generally make a international incident possibly costing many, many 10's of thousands of taxpayers dollars.

OH - and I was 100% cool the next day. This fucker could be moaning for the next 15 years...


Excuses excuses.........................I got right up your rectal muscles and you know it.

Still glad you are back on form......................just try a little understanding...................you will be surprised how giving ya self some warm fuzzies gets rid of ya cold pricklies.


Skyrder

[Jonno.]

New Zealand as a country shouldn't back this loser; he had a chance to get off the boat scott free and yet he didn't.

[Tank]

Excuses excuses.........................I got right up your rectal muscles and you know it.


No - but - hey set yourself high goals and reach for em' big boy.

[Tank]

l be surprised how giving ya self some warm fuzzies

Gotta run - friends here for dinner - but here are some warm fuzzies for PB and give whale blowing friends:

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[CookMySock]

OH - and I was 100% cool the next day. This fucker could be moaning for the next 15 years...LOL Fucken bullshit.

Your shoot-off filthy mouth never stops. Think about it.

Steve

[Dave Lobster]

This fucker could be moaning for the next 15 years...

You never know.. he might be a screamer.

[Mully]

Mr Bethune's lawyer Dan Harris says it is potentially a very serious situation.

Potentially? Really? Is that all?


He says he is surprised the charges have been laid, and is calling the situation absurd.

Then he's clearly soft in the head. How can be possibly be surprised. I knew the charges were going to be laid, and I'm only a bush lawyer.


Mr Harris says there is literally no foundation to the charges, and Mr Bethune will defend them vigorously.

No foundation. Literally. Except, ya know, the law and that.

Regardless of the moral views you hold on this, it seems pretty obvious Bethune needs a new lawyer.

[kwaka_crasher]

This justifies your support for the Japanese over a fellow countryman who acted because the NZ government refused to do so even though his boat was a NZ registed vessel and as such had the soverignty of NZ and our laws.

You've already been shown that is complete and utter fucking bullshit and yet you still insist it's fact, Mr Goebbels.

Buffoon boarded a foreign flagged vessel in international waters - something he was no more entitled to do than enter that nation's territory illegally. I hope the fuckwit rots in jail.

As for his "fellow countryman" bullshit, I for one, don't give a shit where he was born or what passport he carries. He broke the laws of a foreign nation, in their juristiction and now he must face the consequences. Do the crime, do the time.


This fucker could be moaning for the next 15 years...

At least he'll be out of earshot... :lol:

[Skyryder]

You've already been shown that is complete and utter fucking bullshit and yet you still insist it's fact, Mr Goebbels.

Buffoon boarded a foreign flagged vessel in international waters - something he was no more entitled to do than enter that nation's territory illegally. I hope the fuckwit rots in jail.

As for his "fellow countryman" bullshit, I for one, don't give a shit where he was born or what passport he carries. He broke the laws of a foreign nation, in their juristiction and now he must face the consequences. Do the crime, do the time.



At least he'll be out of earshot... :lol:

The history of Japanese fishing is one of breaking the law. Our laws in respect of our fisheries.

http://www.japanlaw.info/lawletter/feb85/dov.htm

2007
May 10, 2007 - In 1979, Canada seized 19 American fishing boats for illegally fishing tuna within its territorial waters in the Pacific. ... In 1998, a fleet of 65 Japanese fishing boats sailed to Australian and New Zealand waters for the coveted southern blue fin tuna, in violation of a 1994 treaty ...

2008
Feb 23, 2008 - "The vessel refused to give a fishing permit number and threatened the Steve Irwin by reporting that it was armed," a Sea Shepherd spokesman said. ... An Australian Federal Court ordered in January that Japanese whaling be restrained in Australian territorial waters.


There's a shit load more ........................but what's the point you seem to support others than that of your own countrymen.

Skyryder

[kwaka_crasher]

What does that have to do with Buffoon's arrest and the entirely lawful Japanese whaling in international waters? Nothing.

How about the illegal activities of Sea Shepard in the last decade, intentionally ramming and sinking ships? I see you conveniently ignore them.

And once again, fuck the emotive 'countrymen' bullshit. I support who is right. I have no misguided allegiance to pirates, NZ born or otherwise.

[Kwaka14]

"Has it ever occurred to you that if Key and his government took thjeir responsibilites a little more seriouse then Bethune may not have needed to board the Japanese whaler."

Whilst I disagree with Whaling and the way the collision (ramming) was done I think Bethune is well wrong (or at least stupid) to have done what he did in boarding the Japanese Whaler. He got off the Sea Sheperd where the NZ govt had Jurisdiction (I think), and got on to the Japanese one (Where for sure NZ has no sway at all), so how can the NZ government intervene, and why should they? He was acting independently of the NZ Government and quite clearly decided to subject himself to the consequences that he is now facing.

Maybe it's ok as he was maybe just "Taking it International"

[Pixie]

Oh how I laughed!

Stupid hippy


I hope he has to shower with Mr Sparkle in prison and gets banished to the land of wind and ghosts.

[Skyryder]

And once again, fuck the emotive 'countrymen' bullshit. I support who is right. I have no misguided allegiance to pirates, NZ born or otherwise.


Pirates????????????............................... .........that shows just how far you are off the mark.


Skyryder

[firefighter]

Personally, I do'nt agree with whaling.

Even more strongly do I believe, this guy deserves everything he gets......only because;

He had every opportunity to leave, he refused to leave fully knowing what the consequences are, yet he foolishly stayed. How unneccessary that is.

"stay on onboard and you will go to jail......" "ok i'm staying to go to jail". Who the fuck does he think he is? Nelson Mandela?!

You can't expect to slap a lion, follow it home, refuse to leave it's side, and then sit amongst the pride without getting mauled.

He now cannot in any way help his cause. It's actually really really stupid. In the eyes of the Japs, when he is convicted his word will mean even less, every point he's tried to make undone, and he will be seen as nothing other than scum......as in everything he's done will be veiwed as the same as a rapist or murderers actions. Does he think he's going to be a martyr?!

What a waste of a life.......in a cell.

No thank you.

[Tank]

Personally, I do'nt agree with whaling.

Even more strongly do I believe, this guy deserves everything he gets......only because;

He had every opportunity to leave, he refused to leave fully knowing what the consequences are, yet he foolishly stayed. How unneccessary that is.

"stay on onboard and you will go to jail......" "ok i'm staying to go to jail". Who the fuck does he think he is? Nelson Mandela?!

You can't expect to slap a lion, follow it home, refuse to leave it's side, and then sit amongst the pride without getting mauled.

He now cannot in any way help his cause. It's actually really really stupid. In the eyes of the Japs, when he is convicted his word will mean even less, every point he's tried to make undone, and he will be seen as nothing other than scum......as in everything he's done will be veiwed as the same as a rapist or murderers actions. Does he think he's going to be a martyr?!

What a waste of a life.......in a cell.

No thank you.

So very well put !

[Tank]

LOL Fucken bullshit.

Your shoot-off filthy mouth never stops. Think about it.

Steve

Thought about it just for you. Then had a wank. Great start to the morning.

[onearmedbandit]

Personally, I do'nt agree with whaling.

Even more strongly do I believe, this guy deserves everything he gets......only because;

He had every opportunity to leave, he refused to leave fully knowing what the consequences are, yet he foolishly stayed. How unneccessary that is.

"stay on onboard and you will go to jail......" "ok i'm staying to go to jail". Who the fuck does he think he is? Nelson Mandela?!

You can't expect to slap a lion, follow it home, refuse to leave it's side, and then sit amongst the pride without getting mauled.

He now cannot in any way help his cause. It's actually really really stupid. In the eyes of the Japs, when he is convicted his word will mean even less, every point he's tried to make undone, and he will be seen as nothing other than scum......as in everything he's done will be veiwed as the same as a rapist or murderers actions. Does he think he's going to be a martyr?!

What a waste of a life.......in a cell.

No thank you.

+1. Well put.

[Skyryder]

Personally, I do'nt agree with whaling.

Even more strongly do I believe, this guy deserves everything he gets......only because;

He had every opportunity to leave, he refused to leave fully knowing what the consequences are, yet he foolishly stayed. How unneccessary that is.

"stay on onboard and you will go to jail......" "ok i'm staying to go to jail". Who the fuck does he think he is? Nelson Mandela?!

You can't expect to slap a lion, follow it home, refuse to leave it's side, and then sit amongst the pride without getting mauled.

He now cannot in any way help his cause. It's actually really really stupid. In the eyes of the Japs, when he is convicted his word will mean even less, every point he's tried to make undone, and he will be seen as nothing other than scum......as in everything he's done will be veiwed as the same as a rapist or murderers actions. Does he think he's going to be a martyr?!

What a waste of a life.......in a cell.

No thank you.



There is no doubt in my mind that the boarding was to highlight the ramming of the AG. It is subject o conjecture whether Buthune would have carried out a similar action if the NZ government had developed a diplomatic response in tune with the seriousness of the ramming. I'm not going into the whose fault the ramming was as this has been covered before...................Buthane deliberately flouted International law with his boarding. I concede that, this with my limited knowledge, and from those that know more on this subject appears to be correct, but equally, International law requires that any vessel in distress receive assistance from other vessels in the vicinity that are able to do so. The whaler did not do so and continued to ‘water cannon’ a vessel in distress. This in my opinion is far more serious than any offence that the Japanese have charged Buthane with. This failure to ‘give assistance’ to a distressed vessel is conveniently forgotten. The apologists for the Japanese fail to mention this critical fact.

Our government simply does not have the balls to protest against the Japanese on this breach of maritime law.

Skyryder

[onearmedbandit]

but equally, International law requires that any vessel in distress receive assistance from other vessels in the vicinity that are able to do so. The whaler did not do so and continued to ‘water cannon’ a vessel in distress. This in my opinion is far more serious than any offence that the Japanese have charged Buthane with. This failure to ‘give assistance’ to a distressed vessel is conveniently forgotten. The apologists for the Japanese fail to mention this critical fact.

Our government simply does not have the balls to protest against the Japanese on this breach of maritime law.

Skyryder

Can you inform me of the actions that the SS took after sinking other vessels previously? Ignoring the fact that they actually targeted and attacked another vessel causing it to sink, did they help the stricken sailors? For all I know, they may have (highly unlikely), but the SS put those sailors lives in peril. How do you comment on that?

[Ronin]

There is no doubt in my mind that the boarding was to highlight the ramming of the AG. It is subject o conjecture whether Buthune would have carried out a similar action if the NZ government had developed a diplomatic response in tune with the seriousness of the ramming. I'm not going into the whose fault the ramming was as this has been covered before...................Buthane deliberately flouted International law with his boarding. I concede that, this with my limited knowledge, and from those that know more on this subject appears to be correct, but equally, International law requires that any vessel in distress receive assistance from other vessels in the vicinity that are able to do so. The whaler did not do so and continued to ‘water cannon’ a vessel in distress. This in my opinion is far more serious than any offence that the Japanese have charged Buthane with. This failure to ‘give assistance’ to a distressed vessel is conveniently forgotten. The apologists for the Japanese fail to mention this critical fact.

Our government simply does not have the balls to protest against the Japanese on this breach of maritime law.

Skyryder

Justifying the hippies actions by saying that he would not have boarded the Japanese vessel if our guv'nment had acted differently is in my mind the same as the lawyer father blaming the liquor laws for his daughter doing a runner and killing someone.

His boarding of the ship was silly enough, staying there when offered an out was just sheer idiocy unless of course he thinks he will make a valid protest from the inside of a Jap jail. I don't like his chances on that.

[rustic101]

He did the crime now its time (cuse the pun) to do the time..

He is; In My Opinion an eco terrorist, as are green peace and animal activists.

Take the reaction about the female chef that boiled the cray ti kill it prior to cooking. She had death threats and all sorts of nasty approaches.. Its not ok to boil a Cray to death, yet its ok to threaten people???? WTF

[Jonno.]

There is no doubt in my mind that the boarding was to highlight the ramming of the AG. It is subject o conjecture whether Buthune would have carried out a similar action if the NZ government had developed a diplomatic response in tune with the seriousness of the ramming. I'm not going into the whose fault the ramming was as this has been covered before...................Buthane deliberately flouted International law with his boarding. I concede that, this with my limited knowledge, and from those that know more on this subject appears to be correct, but equally, International law requires that any vessel in distress receive assistance from other vessels in the vicinity that are able to do so. The whaler did not do so and continued to ‘water cannon’ a vessel in distress. This in my opinion is far more serious than any offence that the Japanese have charged Buthane with. This failure to ‘give assistance’ to a distressed vessel is conveniently forgotten. The apologists for the Japanese fail to mention this critical fact.

Our government simply does not have the balls to protest against the Japanese on this breach of maritime law.

Skyryder

Dude if you break into my house fall down my stairs and you want a shoulder to cry on do you think I'd give a shit.

It's not like they were passing by and got hit.
Sea Shepherd have disreguarded the law for a long time so to even mention it is a joke.

[pzkpfw]

Japanese prison are no holiday camp
Stephen

But it's a holiday compared to a Japanese prison camp.


My heart bleeds for the guy.

[Fatjim]

Mate, there's got to be some serious hot hippie chick that this guy thinks he's got a chance of shagging to be doing something so stupid as this.

[kwaka_crasher]

Pirates????????????............................... .........that shows just how far you are off the mark.

Encylopedia Britannica: Piracy is any robbery or other violent action, for private ends and without authorisation by public authority, committed on the seas or in the air outside the normal jurisdiction of any state.

Yep, Paul Watson and his sheeple are pirates.

[Indiana_Jones]

Mr. Bethune has made his bed, now he has to lie in it.

-Indy

[Trouser]

Boo hoo.

Thought his shit didn't stink. Now he'll smell it as the japanese guy pulls out. Possibly even taste it too.

[devnull]

Pirates????????????............................... .........that shows just how far you are off the mark.


Skyryder

Attacking and boarding a vessel in international waters... Yep. That's piracy.
It'll get you shot off the African coast...

The Japs could've saved themselves a lot of additional costs if they'd just hung the prick when they caught him. Something they'd be justified in doing too

[Skyryder]

Can you inform me of the actions that the SS took after sinking other vessels previously? Ignoring the fact that they actually targeted and attacked another vessel causing it to sink, did they help the stricken sailors? For all I know, they may have (highly unlikely), but the SS put those sailors lives in peril. How do you comment on that?

The issue is what happened with the sinking of the AG. Everything else is a side issue bought up by the Jap apologists to justifyi not only their belief as to the rights and wrong, of this is issue, but also to justify the actions of the whaler crew who continued with water cannons on a stricken vessels. Many on here condemn the action of Bethune by boarding the whaler and ignore the actions of the japanese crew who continued to water cannon the stricken vessel and refuse assistnce. If what you say is true then that is of equal concern.............but two wrongs do not make 'one' right and you post implies that you think otherwise.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Encylopedia Britannica: Piracy is any robbery or other violent action, for private ends and without authorisation by public authority, committed on the seas or in the air outside the normal jurisdiction of any state.

Yep, Paul Watson and his sheeple are pirates.


I would hardley describe actions to save whales for private ends piracy. In fact it is the actions of the whaler in the violent sinking in international waters that comes the closet to what your have posted.


Skyryder

[davereid]

The issue is what happened with the sinking of the AG.

I think it is an entirely different issue. And one that the AG could not actually be sure of winning either. They, by their own admission were deliberately and repeatedly crossing the bows of the jap ship, forcing it to take collision avoidance actions, thus forcing it off course. The AG was not hampered by these actions, as it is highly manoeuvrable. The japanese ship on the other hand would take ages to get back on course.

The japanese could easily argue that their boat was restricted in its ability to manoevure, and therefore actually had right-of-way. The law at sea, is not as simple as give way to your right - lots of other factors can be argued to be relevant.

But Mr. Bethune is in real trouble. The Japanese dont prosecute if they wont win, with a virtual 100% success rate for Jap prosecutors in Jap courts.

He was on a vessel that has a history of violent encounters with other boats, operated by an organisation considered terrorist by many governments.

The vessel he was on flew a pirate flag, and had rammed japanese boats in the past, as well as regularly attempting to damage steering equipment, foul propellors, and had been firing butyric acid at japanese crew members, causing blndness and facial injuries to Jap crewmen.

[kwaka_crasher]

I would hardley describe actions to save whales for private ends piracy. In fact it is the actions of the whaler in the violent sinking in international waters that comes the closet to what your have posted.

You might not, but then you're known for attempting to twist definitions to suit your beliefs.

The AG was deliberately moved into the path of the Shonan Maru No. 2 at the last minute, as can be seen from the wake behind the AG immediately prior to the collision.

How about the many violent attacks and sinkings caused intentionally by Paul Watson's pirates in international waters? Why do you remain silent on those?

I'll tell you why. It's because you're a one-eyed wanker and to you the end justifies the means but rational people don't buy that bullshit.

[Tank]

There is no doubt in my mind that the boarding was to highlight the ramming of the AG.

well - he did that when he boarded. He should have taken the chance to get off when offered.

As for the ramming of the AG - innocent until proven guilty I believe is the rule - of course you are more then a little one eyed on this subject.

Again the SS are terrorist - they are proud of the boats they have rammed or sunk using explosives. You seem to think that the ramming of the AG was the 'instigating' action - ignoring the behavior of PB and the SS prior to that.

Anyway - you can be as biased as you like - personally Id be happy to see the SS all up on terrorist charges (bombing a boat in a port - not unlike the rainbow warrior) - hang a few of the fuckers.

[Skyryder]

I think it is an entirely different issue. And one that the AG could not actually be sure of winning either. They, by their own admission were deliberately and repeatedly crossing the bows of the jap ship, forcing it to take collision avoidance actions, thus forcing it off course. The AG was not hampered by these actions, as it is highly manoeuvrable. The japanese ship on the other hand would take ages to get back on course.

The japanese could easily argue that their boat was restricted in its ability to manoevure, and therefore actually had right-of-way. The law at sea, is not as simple as give way to your right - lots of other factors can be argued to be relevant.

But Mr. Bethune is in real trouble. The Japanese dont prosecute if they wont win, with a virtual 100% success rate for Jap prosecutors in Jap courts.

He was on a vessel that has a history of violent encounters with other boats, operated by an organisation considered terrorist by many governments.

The vessel he was on flew a pirate flag, and had rammed japanese boats in the past, as well as regularly attempting to damage steering equipment, foul propellors, and had been firing butyric acid at japanese crew members, causing blndness and facial injuries to Jap crewmen.

As to the casue of who is at falult with the ramming that has been covewred in other threads with no satisfactour agreement either way.


There is some doubt that the Jolly Rodger was actully used to signafy a pirate vessel. It may well be a myth from Hollywood. Teh skull and cross bones is a Masonic emblam and has nothing to do with piracy. Still I will concede your point but do not believe that the AG was engagded in what is traditionla pirat activities and this is the same for the terrorist activites the SS people are accused of.

Bottom line Jap whaler ignored protocol with a stricken vessel.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

well - he did that when he boarded. He should have taken the chance to get off when offered.

As for the ramming of the AG - innocent until proven guilty I believe is the rule - of course you are more then a little one eyed on this subject.

Again the SS are terrorist - they are proud of the boats they have rammed or sunk using explosives. You seem to think that the ramming of the AG was the 'instigating' action - ignoring the behavior of PB and the SS prior to that.

Anyway - you can be as biased as you like - personally Id be happy to see the SS all up on terrorist charges (bombing a boat in a port - not unlike the rainbow warrior) - hang a few of the fuckers.

Don't think I am any more bised than you.................but then you would no doubt disagree and consider yourself the epitomy of reason


Skyryder

[davereid]

As to the casue of who is at falult with the ramming that has been covewred in other threads with no satisfactour agreement either way.


There is some doubt that the Jolly Rodger was actully used to signafy a pirate vessel. It may well be a myth from Hollywood. Teh skull and cross bones is a Masonic emblam and has nothing to do with piracy. Still I will concede your point but do not believe that the AG was engagded in what is traditionla pirat activities and this is the same for the terrorist activites the SS people are accused of.

Bottom line Jap whaler ignored protocol with a stricken vessel.


Skyryder

Im sure that the Jolly Roger was chosen by SS because it was "the pirate flag", not because they are all Masons.

All terrorists are sure that the cause they support means they are not terrorists, they are freedom fighters.

If you think the cause is the most important thing, then they are not terrorists. If you think the method is the important thing, then shooting at policemen, ramming ships and planting limpet mines may qualify as terrorisim.

Ignoring protocol ?

I'm not sure that happened. As I understand it, the japs offered assistance which was declined.

The issues really are, that the japs kept up the water cannon for 45 seconds after the collision, and didnt offer assistance for some 4-5 minutes.

But, if I were captain of the jap ship, my first responsibilities are for my crew, and my ship.
Only after my engineers have assured me that my vessel is seaworthy and I have reset a safe course, ascertained the safety of my crew, and established full control of my vessel, would I look to assist others. And if it took me half a minute to call off the dogs, I was busy, and certainly did it as promptly as could be expected.

[Pedrostt500]

Attacking and boarding a vessel in international waters... Yep. That's piracy.
It'll get you shot off the African coast...

The Japs could've saved themselves a lot of additional costs if they'd just hung the prick when they caught him. Something they'd be justified in doing too

Nah they should have keel hauled him.

[oldrider]

No ones asking him to agree with Bethune but it's a pity he can not give others that in their 'goodwill' have given him. I think Tank is a shallow man that has run aground in the sea of life and can not get off the shoals that he creates for himself. Now that's 'brilliant' even if I do say so myself. :yes: Skyryder

Bethunes behaviour in driving his boat in front of the Japanese vessel is akin to someone throwing themselves in front of a train and then "blaming the bloody train"! :blink:

The rules of the sea are agreed to by every seafaring nation to combat confusion, he was out there, hell bent on creating it! :sick:

I think his arrogant stupidity has done more to harm the anti whaling effort than to help it! :yes:

[Tank]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Despite our greenie friends saying it started with the collision - it seems that the before the crash.

oh bugger.

"But most serious is the charge of causing injury which comes with a prison sentence of up to 15 years.

The charge relates to an incident three days before the powerboat Ady Gil and the whaler collided . Japan's coastguard alleges Bethune fired a rancid butter stink bomb which injured a crewman."

Still - I guess they have a argument why it was OK for them to be firing objects at crewmen who were legally going about their job (regardless of what you think about their job).

[Skyryder]

Bethunes behaviour in driving his boat in front of the Japanese vessel is akin to someone throwing themselves in front of a train and then "blaming the bloody train"! :blink:

Oh come on OR. You don't realy think Bethune deliberatly placed his multi million dollar boat and risk the lives of his crew just o make a point at the Japanese. Jeeeezz OR I canunderstand some of the younger ones going for this rubbish.......like the brain does not full develop untill the on set of male menopause............na..... I think ya just taking the piss.:rockon:


Skyryder

[Berries]

Is the spell check not working on this thread or what ?


There is some doubt that the Jolly Rodger was actully used to signafy a pirate vessel. It may well be a myth from Hollywood. Teh skull and cross bones is a Masonic emblam and has nothing to do with piracy.

Proper pirates certainly flew Jolly Roger flags, although the design didn't match what we know now as the Jolly Roger because each ship had a different flag. A bit before Hollywood as well. I'd hate to quote Wikidpedia but there is plenty of info out there. I only know because I was trying to buy one lately and was amazed at what I found.

Back on topic, I'm with the OP. He should have got off when given the chance. Martyrdom only works in the Islamic world :ar15:

[Skyryder]

You might not, but then you're known for attempting to twist definitions to suit your beliefs.

The AG was deliberately moved into the path of the Shonan Maru No. 2 at the last minute, as can be seen from the wake behind the AG immediately prior to the collision.

How about the many violent attacks and sinkings caused intentionally by Paul Watson's pirates in international waters? Why do you remain silent on those?

I'll tell you why. It's because you're a one-eyed wanker and to you the end justifies the means but rational people don't buy that bullshit.

Must be a bit of a bugger to realize you are not as bright as you think. If you are unable to counter my arguments with any thing other than an accusation that I twist definitions to suit my beliefs then perhaps you need to rethink your posts or not reply.

I remain silent because they are not relevant to this issue. If you consider them so then why did you not start a thread on them at the time they allegedly occurred and if you were not a KB member at the time then start one now……..but do not try and justify the actions of the Maru 2 on past actions of the AG. After all you cannot with any credibility condemn the AG for acting in a dangerous manner while at the same time support the Maru 2 for doing likewise. Is that your idea of a rational argument??

As for the personal attack with your one eyed wanker comments you can not even get the right answer to your own question.

That ‘the end justifies the means’ is not a rational issue for individuals but a moral one.

Bombed out again ol’ son…………….still like I said it’s bugger to learn that you are not as bright as you think.

Skyryder

[kwaka_crasher]

Must be a bit of a bugger to realize you are not as bright as you think. If you are unable to counter my arguments with any thing other than an accusation that I twist definitions to suit my beliefs then perhaps you need to rethink your posts or not reply.

Yes, I expect it will be upsetting for you when you finally do realise. You do nothing but repeat the baseless lies you believe - I give references and facts. Who's the fool?


I remain silent because they are not relevant to this issue. If you consider them so then why did you not start a thread on them at the time they allegedly occurred and if you were not a KB member at the time then start one now……..but do not try and justify the actions of the Maru 2 on past actions of the AG. After all you cannot with any credibility condemn the AG for acting in a dangerous manner while at the same time support the Maru 2 for doing likewise. Is that your idea of a rational argument??

Clearly it's yours. Don't try and tell me what I may or may not do, you hypocrite. You're trying to justify the illegal actions of the the Sea Shithead fuckwits citing historic alleged breaches of fisheries which by your own standard have no relevance. Although you seem to think that doesn't apply to you.


The history of Japanese fishing is one of breaking the law. Our laws in respect of our fisheries.

Ring any bells? :weird:

You attempt to vilify the Shonan Maru No. 2 and completely ignore the fact that the AG was manouvering with the sole intention to harrass the Japanese going about their lawful business. They have no right to do that. None at all.


As for the personal attack with your one eyed wanker comments you can not even get the right answer to your own question.

I've got the exact right answer. You're a one-eyed wanker - you ignore the illegal actions of the Sea Shithead fuckwits because you disagree with the entirely legal actions of the Japanese in whaling.


That ‘the end justifies the means’ is not a rational issue for individuals but a moral one.

A so-called moral position does not give anyone the right to harrass people going about their entirely lawful business in international waters. How about if someone's moral position is that motorbikes should be banned and then proceeds to harrass you for riding one, using their car to weave an endanger your life? How would you like that?


Bombed out again ol’ son…………….still like I said it’s bugger to learn that you are not as bright as you think.

I can, and do, run rings around fuckwits like you, day in & day out. :first:

[kwaka_crasher]

The history of Japanese fishing is one of breaking the law. Our laws in respect of our fisheries.

http://www.japanlaw.info/lawletter/feb85/dov.htm

2007
May 10, 2007 - In 1979, Canada seized 19 American fishing boats for illegally fishing tuna within its territorial waters in the Pacific. ... In 1998, a fleet of 65 Japanese fishing boats sailed to Australian and New Zealand waters for the coveted southern blue fin tuna, in violation of a 1994 treaty ...

2008
Feb 23, 2008 - "The vessel refused to give a fishing permit number and threatened the Steve Irwin by reporting that it was armed," a Sea Shepherd spokesman said. ... An Australian Federal Court ordered in January that Japanese whaling be restrained in Australian territorial waters.


There's a shit load more ........................but what's the point you seem to support others than that of your own countrymen.

Why don't you fully reference all these claims? Is it because you're worried people can see for themselves how they lack any credibility?

[Pixie]

Oh come on OR. You don't realy think Bethune deliberatly placed his multi million dollar boat and risk the lives of his crew just o make a point at the Japanese. Jeeeezz OR I canunderstand some of the younger ones going for this rubbish.......like the brain does not full develop untill the on set of male menopause............na..... I think ya just taking the piss.:rockon:


Skyryder

Well he's just gambled 15 years of his life on the expectation that the Japanese courts with behave in a totally atypical fashion,just to make a point to the Japanese.

Stupid hippy

[Maki]

This is an interesting slugfest, but lets step back a minute, and consider the facts objectively. The Japanese are hunting 1000 animals out of a stock of around 600.000. Is stopping this hunting more pressing than other environmental issues affecting the oceans? There are some MAJOR problems out there.

Overfishing.
Pollution.
Acidification.

There are HUGE problems out there and many species are near extinction. I respect anyone who does something to help rectify these real and pressing issues. I have 0 respect for those that ply the oceans in search of media attention in a speedboat waving a pirate flag, diverting attention from real issues and damaging the cause of environmentalism, all in the aim of drumming up a media frenzy and thereby getting more $ into their own greedy pockets.

I have no sympathy for Bethune. His actions are consistent with someone who wants to spend a long time inside a Japanese prison. I feel happy for him if he gets his wish.

As for this statement by skyryder:

"You don't realy think Bethune deliberatly placed his multi million dollar boat and risk the lives of his crew just o make a point at the Japanese."

Well, since you put it that way, why did he go to the expense of taking his precious boat into the wild and remote southern ocean? Not just to make a point to the Japanese? I reckon you are right there, sky. He probably did it to satisfy an abnormal need for media attention. Again, he got what he wanted.

The people I feel sorry for are Bethune's loved ones in New Zealand. He could obviously care less about their feelings.

[Pussy]

This is an interesting slugfest, but lets step back a minute, and consider the facts objectively. The Japanese are hunting 1000 animals out of a stock of around 600.000. Is stopping this hunting more pressing than other environmental issues affecting the oceans? There are some MAJOR problems out there.

Overfishing.
Pollution.
Acidification.

There are HUGE problems out there and many species are near extinction. I respect anyone who does something to help rectify these real and pressing issues. I have 0 respect for those that ply the oceans in search of media attention in a speedboat waving a pirate flag, diverting attention from real issues and damaging the cause of environmentalism, all in the aim of drumming up a media frenzy and thereby get more $ into their own greedy pockets.

I have no sympathy for Bethune. His actions are consistent with someone who wants to spend a long time inside a Japanese prison. I feel happy for him if he gets his wish.

As for this statement by skyryder:

"You don't realy think Bethune deliberatly placed his multi million dollar boat and risk the lives of his crew just o make a point at the Japanese."

Well, since you put it that way, why did he go to the expense of taking his precious boat into the wild and remote southern ocean? Not just to make a point to the Japanese? I reckon you are right there, sky. He probably did it to satisfy an abnormal need for media attention. Again, he got what he wanted.

The people I feel sorry for are Bethune's loved ones in New Zealand. He could obviously care less about their feelings.
Says it all, really!

[Skyryder]

I can, and do, run rings around fuckwits like you, day in & day out. :first:


Yep that's why you get personal.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Why don't you fully reference all these claims? Is it because you're worried people can see for themselves how they lack any credibility?


See there you go again asking a question...............and giving yourself an answer to suit yourself. Thought you would have learned after your last debacle.....................but no

I've supplied links in the past and the usual response is to discredit the site..............and not it's contents.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

As for this statement by skyryder:

"You don't realy think Bethune deliberatly placed his multi million dollar boat and risk the lives of his crew just o make a point at the Japanese."

Well, since you put it that way, why did he go to the expense of taking his precious boat into the wild and remote southern ocean? Not just to make a point to the Japanese? I reckon you are right there, sky. He probably did it to satisfy an abnormal need for media attention. Again, he got what he wanted.

The people I feel sorry for are Bethune's loved ones in New Zealand. He could obviously care less about their feelings.

Well herin lies the quandry. On this issue of the sinking of the AG there are two opinions and only two as only two boats were involved. . That Bethune delibeatly placed his vessel in line to be rammed..............or the other that I tend to go with is that the Maru2 deliberaltly rammed the AG.

You are correct that there would be some risk for the AG................that I do not deny........................but no one on here is ascribing to the accident.as an accident.........................no..............t he ramming was caused by the deliberate actions of one of the two parties involved.


Skyryder

[Tank]

Well herin lies the quandry. On this issue of the sinking of the AG there are two opinions and only two as only two boats were involved. . That Bethune delibeatly placed his vessel in line to be rammed..............or the other that I tend to go with is that the Maru2 deliberaltly rammed the AG.

You are correct that there would be some risk for the AG................that I do not deny........................but no one on here is ascribing to the accident.as an accident.........................no..............t he ramming was caused by the deliberate actions of one of the two parties involved.


Skyryder

Again (as is per your norm) you miss the big point - what he is being charged with happened before the crash:

Firing missiles at people at sea (injuring someone) -


Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Despite our greenie friends saying it started with the collision - it seems that the before the crash.

oh bugger.

"But most serious is the charge of causing injury which comes with a prison sentence of up to 15 years.

The charge relates to an incident three days before the powerboat Ady Gil and the whaler collided . Japan's coastguard alleges Bethune fired a rancid butter stink bomb which injured a crewman."

Still - I guess they have a argument why it was OK for them to be firing objects at crewmen who were legally going about their job (regardless of what you think about their job).


But I guess that is OK with you also.

I guess its fine to throw a brick at a car speeding to prevent them crashing and hurting someone??? Again - I hope that they throw the book at him.

[RT527]

Just to point out Japanese law, over there you have to prove you're innocent while in New Zealand you are innocent until prosecution prove you did it!.


JAPAN for one. Their system operates on the "Where there is smoke, there must be fire" theory. Take our system, reverse it and you will have a pretty fair picture of the Japanese system. For one thing, your "attorney does NOT have the RIGHT to converse with you and is treated as any other visitor would be. There is no habeas corpus rule and you do not have the right to confront your accusers nor the "right" to cross examine witnesses against you! In short, if you are charged you are guilty until YOU prove the contrary.

So PB has a shit fight on his hands that he can not possibly win.

You know The sea shepherd bunch of antagonists piss me off , if they were interested in saving anything , why are the running great big(and small) craft around leaking pollutants into the air and sea, why are the not in yachts ?.
In all this blabber we have only Found out one thing ...The end justify s the means ! As for the Ady Gil, its like taking a knife to a Gun fight absolutly the wrong vessel to be trying to block a boat that weighs 20 times there weight.

So that's a Second thing we have Found out...PB and SS are Idiot`s .

Skyrider I am thinking that you possibly need to objectively look at things people are saying , as you seem to have taken quite a few of them as an attack on you and your Beliefs which in turn has ...well led them to attack you personally.
most people on here have stated that they do not agree with the Japanese whaling activities, actually 99% have. What most people have said are the idiotic decisions that they have made( SS and PB ) in there endeavor to Highlight there Anti Whaling Stance, that has Led to Whats happening with PB in Japan. I too agree that he needs to own the consequences and decisions he's made.

[Pussy]

In summary.... it's quite clear that even Stevie Wonder would be able to see that Bethune has been caught with his dick hanging out in the breeze.
He is now going to have to face the consequences of his actions.
Tough shit

[Skyryder]

Just to point out Japanese law, over there you have to prove you're innocent while in New Zealand you are innocent until prosecution prove you did it!.



So PB has a shit fight on his hands that he can not possibly win.

You know The sea shepherd bunch of antagonists piss me off , if they were interested in saving anything , why are the running great big(and small) craft around leaking pollutants into the air and sea, why are the not in yachts ?.
In all this blabber we have only Found out one thing ...The end justify s the means ! As for the Ady Gil, its like taking a knife to a Gun fight absolutly the wrong vessel to be trying to block a boat that weighs 20 times there weight.

So that's a Second thing we have Found out...PB and SS are Idiot`s .

Skyrider I am thinking that you possibly need to objectively look at things people are saying , as you seem to have taken quite a few of them as an attack on you and your Beliefs which in turn has ...well led them to attack you personally.
most people on here have stated that they do not agree with the Japanese whaling activities, actually 99% have. What most people have said are the idiotic decisions that they have made( SS and PB ) in there endeavor to Highlight there Anti Whaling Stance, that has Led to Whats happening with PB in Japan. I too agree that he needs to own the consequences and decisions he's made.

Nope I don't think he will win either. He will be found guilty.........given max (just watch yay yays on here when that happens) Key will announce his release and take full credit and probably pronounce himself an international statesmen.


My take is that most do agree with it. This has been demonstrated both in their support of the Japanese and their hostile attitude to those that oppose them.

I am on record as having no opinion on whaling per se other than my belief that the Japanese whaling is in breach of the IWC moratorium.

Most on here believe that Bethune is deserving of what he gets. OK fair enough but if you had gone to the trouble reading my posts on most of this you would have discovered that I am equally concerned that this Government has not acted in an appropriate manner with the ramming of a NZ registered vessel………..and I again note that little has been said that after the ramming, deliberate or not the Maru 2 continued to water cannon a vessel in distress and fail to offer or give assistance to ‘stressed’ vessel. Still no comment from Key or McCully on this.

And I’m accused of ignoring issues???????

As for the personal stuff……………..you do jump to conclusions but since you are clearly in the pro Japanes camp that is understandable.

Objective enough for you??


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Well he's just gambled 15 years of his life on the expectation that the Japanese courts with behave in a totally atypical fashion,just to make a point to the Japanese.

Stupid hippy


I do not think we have the full answer on that untill the trial starts. Given the fact that the SS has stated the reason for the boarding was becasue the NZ government had not responded in an apropeat manner to the ramming and susequnt lack of support to a distressed vehicle, it is my beliefe that as a New Zealander Bethune may defend on the basis that he had every right to board to deliver the documents that he carried. I do not know if there is any legality in this but it is obvouse to myself that this is path that SS will pursue if not in the trial then certinly in the media. I understand that Japanse law has also been ignored in that there should have been an enquiry started 'immedialy' after the ramming.

Skyryder

[Tank]

I do not think we have the full answer on that untill the trial starts. Given the fact that the SS has stated the reason for the boarding was becasue the NZ government had not responded in an apropeat manner to the ramming and susequnt lack of support to a distressed vehicle, it is my beliefe that as a New Zealander Bethune may defend on the basis that he had every right to board to deliver the documents that he carried.

OK one last time for the hard of thinking. The big charge - the 15 years in a jap jail one is for something that the hippy did BEFORE the collision. So who gives a fuck why he thought about when he boarded it - the dumb fuck effectivly handed himself in for other crimes he had commited.

But is is very obvious that hippies and tree huggers are think as shit because they keep missing this rather important point.

[Tank]

and for for the hippies - here you go again:

"But most serious is the charge of causing injury which comes with a prison sentence of up to 15 years.

The charge relates to an incident three days before the powerboat Ady Gil and the whaler collided . Japan's coastguard alleges Bethune fired a rancid butter stink bomb which injured a crewman."

From the BBC:

"The crew of the Shonan Maru said the activists had tried to tangle a rope in their propeller and had thrown butyric acid at the ship, giving a "chemical burn" to one sailor.

But Sea Shepherd has denied any of its activists caused injury and said the substance thrown was harmless, if unpleasant, rancid butter."

Because they would never fire acid at people going around their legal business would they?

[slowpoke]

What's that old saying? "We get the politician's we deserve"? Well after checking out the posts in this thread I've just realised how we ended up with the myopic, self serving, egotistical idjits we've installed in parliament.

I dunno why most of the people in this thread even bother posting: this is a forum where discussions and exchanges of idea's take place. If you only want to talk at people, and not have an open mind, powers of reason or aren't prepared to accept other points of view then I suggest a blog is a better form of internet activity for you. No discussion, no critique, no challenging of your idea's, just spruiking to whoever wants to read it without fear of your world turning upside down.

I look at the arrogant, gloating, assumptive, abusive posts on here and wonder how you'd feel if your children read these things. Taking it a step further I wonder if these same characteristics are what you nurture in your children.....hell, lets face it of course you do, they copy you whether you like it or not.

And long live the pigeon holing of people we know virtually nothing about, in situations we have very little comprehension of, into nice little boxes in our minds eh? I mean lets just dehumanise them and stick these (insert generic "Greenies", "Hippies", "Japs" etc term here) into a predetermined stereotype so we don't have to actually think about why they act the way they do. They're all the same eh, they aren't actually people with their own personal idea's, aims and motivations are they? Just like bikers, we're all exactly the same aren't we?

Some people here have talked about accountability, well just have a read over some of your own posts and take a look at yourselves. Consider the fact that this thread is a pile of pus, something to be avoided for most rational folks, because of your input. Would you defend your kids if that's how they acted in a school discussion? Of course you would, after all someone else started it, and so and so did something wrong so that entitles them to do something just as wrong, rather than just building a bridge.

But thanks for the education all the same, it mightn't be much but I've definitely learned something about my fellow New Zealanders reading this thread.

[Bikemad]

DING DING...................round two

[Skyryder]

What's that old saying? "We get the politician's we deserve"? Well after checking out the posts in this thread I've just realised how we ended up with the myopic, self serving, egotistical idjits we've installed in parliament.

I dunno why most of the people in this thread even bother posting: this is a forum where discussions and exchanges of idea's take place. If you only want to talk at people, and not have an open mind, powers of reason or aren't prepared to accept other points of view then I suggest a blog is a better form of internet activity for you. No discussion, no critique, no challenging of your idea's, just spruiking to whoever wants to read it without fear of your world turning upside down.

I look at the arrogant, gloating, assumptive, abusive posts on here and wonder how you'd feel if your children read these things. Taking it a step further I wonder if these same characteristics are what you nurture in your children.....hell, lets face it of course you do, they copy you whether you like it or not.

And long live the pigeon holing of people we know virtually nothing about, in situations we have very little comprehension of, into nice little boxes in our minds eh? I mean lets just dehumanise them and stick these (insert generic "Greenies", "Hippies", "Japs" etc term here) into a predetermined stereotype so we don't have to actually think about why they act the way they do. They're all the same eh, they aren't actually people with their own personal idea's, aims and motivations are they? Just like bikers, we're all exactly the same aren't we?

Some people here have talked about accountability, well just have a read over some of your own posts and take a look at yourselves. Consider the fact that this thread is a pile of pus, something to be avoided for most rational folks, because of your input. Would you defend your kids if that's how they acted in a school discussion? Of course you would, after all someone else started it, and so and so did something wrong so that entitles them to do something just as wrong, rather than just building a bridge.

But thanks for the education all the same, it mightn't be much but I've definitely learned something about my fellow New Zealanders reading this thread.

I don't think this is going away. Most of what is said here has been said in other threads on this with a bit more detail.

When the trial starts.........it will start up again...........same old story, same old attitudes............including mine.


Skyyrder

[kwaka_crasher]

Yep that's why you get personal.

Nah. It's because I hate barefaced liars with a passion.


See there you go again asking a question...............and giving yourself an answer to suit yourself. Thought you would have learned after your last debacle.....................but no

I merely posed a likely answer. Feel free to post your references. I won't hold my breath... I've already found them anyway... but lets see if you come clean.


I've supplied links in the past and the usual response is to discredit the site..............and not it's contents.

Of course. That's because the sites are as one-eyed as you! I'm still laughing from the time you claimed that animalliberation.org.au was actually the IWC! :rofl:

Actually, let's all have another good belly laugh at that one:


As for your statement that Japan has every right to be in the Antarctica catching whales. Not according to the IWC.

Japan supposedly accepts the commercial ban, but kills even more minke whales than Norway for "scientific" purposes. It just so happens that whale meat also ends up for sale in the market! Japan continues to kill whales even in the Southern Ocean whale sanctuary around Antarctica, in defiance of the IWC.
From

http://www.animalliberation.org.au/whalehist.php

:killingme

[Skyryder]

Nah. It's because I hate barefaced liars with a passion.



I don't 'hate' anybody. Not even you.

Skyryder

[slowpoke]

I don't think this is going away. Most of what is said here has been said in other threads on this with a bit more detail.

When the trial starts.........it will start up again...........same old story, same old attitudes............including mine.


Skyyrder

I've got absolutely no problem with people discussing/debating the issue, what I do have a problem with is folks who have absolutely no idea of how to go about it. There is no discussion per se, it's just a place to shout your opinion and lambast/ridicule anyone who disagree's with it. So what's the point on entering a discussion if you aren't interested in taking on new information or your mind is already closed on the issue?

As seems to be the norm these days people can't be arsed thinking for themselves and questioning, probing adjusting their view of the world. Instead it's all about the impulsive, assumptive, abusive knee jerk reactions that they can't change lest it be seen as some sort of personal failure.

[Jonno.]

What's that old saying? "We get the politician's we deserve"? Well after checking out the posts in this thread I've just realised how we ended up with the myopic, self serving, egotistical idjits we've installed in parliament.

I dunno why most of the people in this thread even bother posting: this is a forum where discussions and exchanges of idea's take place. If you only want to talk at people, and not have an open mind, powers of reason or aren't prepared to accept other points of view then I suggest a blog is a better form of internet activity for you. No discussion, no critique, no challenging of your idea's, just spruiking to whoever wants to read it without fear of your world turning upside down.

I look at the arrogant, gloating, assumptive, abusive posts on here and wonder how you'd feel if your children read these things. Taking it a step further I wonder if these same characteristics are what you nurture in your children.....hell, lets face it of course you do, they copy you whether you like it or not.

And long live the pigeon holing of people we know virtually nothing about, in situations we have very little comprehension of, into nice little boxes in our minds eh? I mean lets just dehumanise them and stick these (insert generic "Greenies", "Hippies", "Japs" etc term here) into a predetermined stereotype so we don't have to actually think about why they act the way they do. They're all the same eh, they aren't actually people with their own personal idea's, aims and motivations are they? Just like bikers, we're all exactly the same aren't we?

Some people here have talked about accountability, well just have a read over some of your own posts and take a look at yourselves. Consider the fact that this thread is a pile of pus, something to be avoided for most rational folks, because of your input. Would you defend your kids if that's how they acted in a school discussion? Of course you would, after all someone else started it, and so and so did something wrong so that entitles them to do something just as wrong, rather than just building a bridge.

But thanks for the education all the same, it mightn't be much but I've definitely learned something about my fellow New Zealanders reading this thread.

Welcome to the internet :laugh:

[Skyryder]

I've got absolutely no problem with people discussing/debating the issue, what I do have a problem with is folks who have absolutely no idea of how to go about it. There is no discussion per se, it's just a place to shout your opinion and lambast/ridicule anyone who disagree's with it. So what's the point on entering a discussion if you aren't interested in taking on new information or your mind is already closed on the issue?

As seems to be the norm these days people can't be arsed thinking for themselves and questioning, probing adjusting their view of the world. Instead it's all about the impulsive, assumptive, abusive knee jerk reactions that they can't change lest it be seen as some sort of personal failure.

Well if you take a look at this thread i believed I was called a wanker................so why are you responding to my post?

For the record Ii belive that my posts are well thought out and reasonably coherant. Read my post #76 on this just as an example

As for myself having a close mind on this issue that could also be said of others so again I ask why me?

Nope bottomline on this is that I can come up with an alternitive view based on what I believe to be right and because I seem to be in the miniority.................you have joined in with the rest.

If you want to debate the issue then debate it but it seems to me that your post is as personal as those that you condemn as a knee jerk reaction.



Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Of course. That's because the sites are as one-eyed as you! I'm still laughing from the time you claimed that animalliberation.org.au was actually the IWC! :rofl:

Actually, let's all have another good belly laugh at that one:



:killingme

You clearly do not understand syntax. No where in my post do say that the information is from the IWC website or for that matter even imply that. I have quoted from a site that claims the Japanese are in ‘defiance’ of the IWC. If you want to make a complete dick of yourself don't let me stop you. But you are just being silly now.

Skyryder

[onearmedbandit]

Wasn't there an inquiry into responsibility re the incident where the AG sank? If so was there an outcome, or is it still pending? At the time most 'experts' interviewed either seemed to lay blame with the AG solely (evidence of wake) or with both parties. I don't remember anyone saying it was solely the fault of the Japanese. If this is the case, then what interaction could the SS expect the NZ government to have? Or did I miss the boat when it was announced that the Japanese were solely to blame.

This is of course ignoring Tank's posts about the most serious charge being laid against the Buffoon of serious injury. 3 (three) days before the sinking.

[Skyryder]

Wasn't there an inquiry into responsibility re the incident where the AG sank? If so was there an outcome, or is it still pending? At the time most 'experts' interviewed either seemed to lay blame with the AG solely (evidence of wake) or with both parties. I don't remember anyone saying it was solely the fault of the Japanese. If this is the case, then what interaction could the SS expect the NZ government to have? Or did I miss the boat when it was announced that the Japanese were solely to blame.

This is of course ignoring Tank's posts about the most serious charge being laid against the Buffoon of serious injury. 3 (three) days before the sinking.

I'll have good look and see if I can find the link that said the Japs had started a formal enquirey into the 'crash' as they are required to do by their law.

In the meantime.

From

http://yachtpals.com/whale-wars-boat-9001

As you can imagine, both the whalers and the protesters blame each other for the boat crash. The Sea Shepherd group has asked the Dutch public prosecutor to launch a criminal investigation into the crash, since Sea Shepherd is registered in the Netherlands. The group's lawyer, Liesbeth Zegveld, said it appeared the ship Shonan Maru 2 had been sent out specifically to prevent the protesters from reaching the whaling ships. "We filed a complaint for criminal prosecution with our prosecutor, requesting the start of an investigation into what we consider to be a crime - piracy, actually - committing violence on the high seas," the lawyer for Sea Shepard told the press.

Skyryder

[Tank]

This is of course ignoring Tank's posts about the most serious charge being laid against the Buffoon of serious injury. 3 (three) days before the sinking.

Why not - Skyryder has ignored it for the entirety of this thread.

[Skyryder]

Why not - Skyryder has ignored it for the entirety of this thread.

Because it's not an issue. My position is based on my belief of illegal whaling and that the AG was delibertly rammed. That and nothing else.
The tactics of the AG prior to the ramming is of little concern to me. It is however used by others to justify that AG deliberalty placed itself in front of the Mru 2 and so deserved all that has occured since. That is an entirely different arguement and one that I have avoided.
The practice of ramming vessels that Japan is in conflict with is not unknown and this link lead credeance to my belief that the3 ramming was on purpose.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20020110a1.html

Japan has frequently detained South Korean boats allegedly fishing illegally in its EEZ, and in late September a Japan Coast Guard vessel even rammed and sank one such boat.

[Tank]

Because it's not an issue. .....

The tactics of the AG prior to the ramming is of little concern to me.

sigh - you really do show up what kind of person you are.

This was all about ol PB getting 15 years jail.

You argue that his actions were justified because of the ramming.

I point out that the ramming happened AFTER the actions for which he is facing jail time.

BUT you dont care about that - you dont care about the assult on the Jap crew member.

What you do is pick the bits of the argument that suit you - and the big point (in this case the reason for him facing 15 years jail) - in your words is 'of little concern'

[Jonno.]

http://yachtpals.com/whale-wars-boat-9001

As you can imagine, both the whalers and the protesters blame each other for the boat crash. The Sea Shepherd group has asked the Dutch public prosecutor to launch a criminal investigation into the crash, since Sea Shepherd is registered in the Netherlands. The group's lawyer, Liesbeth Zegveld, said it appeared the ship Shonan Maru 2 had been sent out specifically to prevent the protesters from reaching the whaling ships. "We filed a complaint for criminal prosecution with our prosecutor, requesting the start of an investigation into what we consider to be a crime - piracy, actually - committing violence on the high seas," the lawyer for Sea Shepard told the press.

Skyryder

I hope that's a funny post April fools day joke :lol:

[Bikemad]

DING DING...............round three

[Skyryder]

I hope that's a funny post April fools day joke :lol:

Nope neither is this. Pretty compelling evidence to me. Instuctions are issued for the Andy Gil to stop. The AG is clearlystationary at the timeof impact as there is no wake. And the Maru2 had pl;enty of room to manourve out of harms way but deliberlty turned to ram. Teh Japs waited untill the boat was helpless and now have the audacity to say they are not at fault.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EfgPgnyX0ak&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EfgPgnyX0ak&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Skyrrder

[Skyryder]

DING DING...............round three

I know I don't have 'ringside' with me but unless the fight is fixed I think I scored a knockout with my last post and vid. :first:


Skyryder

[SMOKEU]

He's just another terrorist who wants recognition with the hopes of one day joining the ranks of al-Qaeda.

[Skyryder]

What you do is pick the bits of the argument that suit you - and the big point (in this case the reason for him facing 15 years jail) - in your words is 'of little concern'


I don't see where you are going with this. I have stated that I do not have a position on whaling per se and now you claim I should have a position on the actions of those who were trying to prevent it. I think my position is consistant on both whaling ane the attempts to stop it.....................I simply do not have one....................what I do have is an issue with the deliberate raming of a vessel, (the AG) the failed assistance to said vessel, and the lack of appropiate response from our government. As usual you have interpreted my posts differently from what I have written.


Skyryder

[Tank]

edit - you replied when I was typing - will reply to that

[Tank]

I don't see where you are going with this. ...........what I do have is an issue with the deliberate raming of a vessel, (the AG) the failed assistance to said vessel, and the lack of appropiate response from our government. As usual you have interpreted my posts differently from what I have written.

you did read what the thread was about? Ill pop it in crayon for ya'all.

He is facing 15 years Jail (Hoary) for criminal acts. The acts that he is charged with happened before the (using your words) ramming, and actually have nothing to do with the ramming at all. Its a totally separate issue really - not even related other than the fact that dumbass PB decided to climb on the boat and not leave thus ensuring his arrest.

[Bikemad]

I know I don't have 'ringside' with me but unless the fight is fixed I think I scored a knockout with my last post and vid. :first:


Skyryder

sorry...............no prize just yet.........off topic..................original post about PB not gettin off Jap Boat when givin the opportunity
The judges decision is final and no discussions will be entered into
DING DING..........round four

[Mully]

I think this is appropriate:

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[kwaka_crasher]

You clearly do not understand syntax. No where in my post do say that the information is from the IWC website or for that matter even imply that. I have quoted from a site that claims the Japanese are in ‘defiance’ of the IWC. If you want to make a complete dick of yourself don't let me stop you. But you are just being silly now.

Clearly you're ignoring where you said "Not according to the IWC" then gave a link to a non-IWC opinion.


I don't see where you are going with this. I have stated that I do not have a position on whaling per se and now you claim I should have a position on the actions of those who were trying to prevent it. I think my position is consistant on both whaling ane the attempts to stop it.....................I simply do not have one....................what I do have is an issue with the deliberate raming of a vessel, (the AG) the failed assistance to said vessel, and the lack of appropiate response from our government. As usual you have interpreted my posts differently from what I have written.

So why do refuse to condemn the actions of the Sea Shithead eco-terrorists for intentionally ramming, bombing and sinking vessels?


I know I don't have 'ringside' with me but unless the fight is fixed I think I scored a knockout with my last post and vid.

Surely you jest. That particular video, along with the one taken from deck of the Shonan Maru No.2, clearly shows the AG accelerating into the path of the Shonan Maru No. 2, unless you believe the Shonan Maru No.2 somehow defied it's hull design and slewed sideways into the AG.

Had the AG not done so, they'd still have their shitty tub. Now they don't, which is a good thing.

[Skyryder]

sorry...............no prize just yet.........off topic..................original post about PB not gettin off Jap Boat when givin the opportunity
The judges decision is final and no discussions will be entered into
DING DING..........round four

Thought so.......... fight fixed.:blink: The thread had branched out into 'off topic' areas after the 'fight' had begun.:jerry:

Skyryder

[Naki Rat]

Nope neither is this. Pretty compelling evidence to me. Instuctions are issued for the Andy Gil to stop. The AG is clearlystationary at the timeof impact as there is no wake. And the Maru2 had pl;enty of room to manourve out of harms way but deliberlty turned to ram. Teh Japs waited untill the boat was helpless and now have the audacity to say they are not at fault.

Skyrrder

Pretty compelling evidence that the Japs are lying c*nts in terms of who is at fault in the AG ramming, and now they are making a political statement in the trumped up charges levelled at PB. Pity our politicians haven't got the balls that the Sea Shepard crews proved they have in waging this battle against the Japanese eco-plunderers!

[Skyryder]

Clearly you're ignoring where you said "Not according to the IWC" then gave a link to a non-IWC opinion.



So why do refuse to condemn the actions of the Sea Shithead eco-terrorists for intentionally ramming, bombing and sinking vessels?



Surely you jest. That particular video, along with the one taken from deck of the Shonan Maru No.2, clearly shows the AG accelerating into the path of the Shonan Maru No. 2, unless you believe the Shonan Maru No.2 somehow defied it's hull design and slewed sideways into the AG.

Had the AG not done so, they'd still have their shitty tub. Now they don't, which is a good thing.

I have covered all your comments in other posts and I have no intention of going over and regurgitating them. :violin: It is your choice to accept them or not. You have chosen not too.

The last video I posted leaves no doubt that the AG was stationary. The wake of the AG is clearly visible at the start of the video. Bethune gives instructions to stop, both by waving his arms and his command (stop) can be clearly heard. The whaler is some distance off.

There are video shots of the whaler with water canon turned on approaching the Andy Gill in a provocative manner. The AG was not in any way acting in a dangerous manner. The AG was stationary as the there was no wake in the rear of the boat and this is consistent with the command to stop given earlier by Bethune.

It is clear to those who can look at the video in an unbiased manner that what I have described is correct. The AG was deliberately rammed which is what I have said from the start.

It is worth noting that the Japanese statements of the crash have stated that the AG deliberately moved onto the path of the AG. This is a patent lie as the video shows.

On another note the Maru 2 immediate after the ramming ignored distress calls from the AG.

I could post the link but since it is from a site whose views you do not agree with there is little point. I’m sure this will come out in Bethune’s trial if allowed………….and I say ‘if’ allowed.

Now that the (deliberate ramming ) is irrefutable the comments that I am off topic have surfaced. :gob: Funny that:jerry:

Should have Buthane got off when he had the chance………………who said he ever had the chance?

Skyryder

[Tank]

Should have Buthane got off when he had the chance………………who said he ever had the chance?

Skyryder

It has been reported by 'both sides' that he had the opportunity and chose to stay.

[oldrider]

I have covered all your comments in other posts and I have no intention of going over and regurgitating them. :violin: It is your choice to accept them or not. You have chosen not too.

The last video I posted leaves no doubt that the AG was stationary. The wake of the AG is clearly visible at the start of the video. Bethune gives instructions to stop, both by waving his arms and his command (stop) can be clearly heard. The whaler is some distance off.

There are video shots of the whaler with water canon turned on approaching the Andy Gill in a provocative manner. The AG was not in any way acting in a dangerous manner. The AG was stationary as the there was no wake in the rear of the boat and this is consistent with the command to stop given earlier by Bethune.

It is clear to those who can look at the video in an unbiased manner that what I have described is correct. The AG was deliberately rammed which is what I have said from the start.

It is worth noting that the Japanese statements of the crash have stated that the AG deliberately moved onto the path of the AG. This is a patent lie as the video shows.

On another note the Maru 2 immediate after the ramming ignored distress calls from the AG.

I could post the link but since it is from a site whose views you do not agree with there is little point. I’m sure this will come out in Bethune’s trial if allowed………….and I say ‘if’ allowed.

Now that the (deliberate ramming ) is irrefutable the comments that I am off topic have surfaced. :gob: Funny that:jerry:

Should have Buthane got off when he had the chance………………who said he ever had the chance?

Skyryder

You pro-greenpiece guy's a just bloody dreamers with your heads in the clouds!

Writing up history to read and sound the way you want it to be is typical of the socialist mindset!

Russia is currently rewriting Stalin's history to sound nice so that the school kids can have more pride in their country, FFS!

No matter what you want it to be, it still doesn't change the facts though, does it! :shifty:

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://images8.cafepress.com/product/7397508v3_480x480_Front.jpg">

-Indy

[kwaka_crasher]

I have covered all your comments in other posts and I have no intention of going over and regurgitating them. :violin: It is your choice to accept them or not. You have chosen not too.

That's because you can't defend your lies now they've been exposed as such.


The last video I posted leaves no doubt that the AG was stationary. The wake of the AG is clearly visible at the start of the video. Bethune gives instructions to stop, both by waving his arms and his command (stop) can be clearly heard. The whaler is some distance off.

Boats that are stationary don't make wakes. Make up your mind - was it stationary or was it moving? You can't see the wake of the AG immediately before the collision from that video. You can only see it from the video shot from the Shonan Maru No.2 (below). Buffoon never yells stop or waves his arms.


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That video clearly shows the AG was moving slowly (see the wake!) and then accelerated into the path of the Shonan Maru No.2 at the 14 sec point of the video. Immediately before impact (20 sec mark in the video) you can see the wake from the AG is very significant which proves it accelerated into the path of the Shonan Maru No.2.

So that makes you either a compulsive liar or just plain stupid. Quite possibly both.


There are video shots of the whaler with water canon turned on approaching the Andy Gill in a provocative manner.

Ah, yes... only the sea terrorists are allowed to be provocative. :rolleyes:


The AG was not in any way acting in a dangerous manner. The AG was stationary as the there was no wake in the rear of the boat and this is consistent with the command to stop given earlier by Bethune.

Now it was stationary again? Was there a wake or wasn't there? In the video you posted I see one at the beginning that you say wasn't ther. Please, make up your fucking mind!


It is clear to those who can look at the video in an unbiased manner that what I have described is correct.

That sure as hell isn't you. Everyone else looking at the video sees what is actually there, not just what they want to be there, like you do.


The AG was deliberately rammed which is what I have said from the start.

No, it wasn't.


It is worth noting that the Japanese statements of the crash have stated that the AG deliberately moved onto the path of the AG. This is a patent lie as the video shows.

No, both videos clearly show this is true.


On another note the Maru 2 immediate after the ramming ignored distress calls from the AG.

So what? Sea Shepherd don't obey maritime laws, why do you hold the Japanese to a higher standard? Live by the sword, die by the sword.


I could post the link but since it is from a site whose views you do not agree with there is little point. I’m sure this will come out in Bethune’s trial if allowed………….and I say ‘if’ allowed.

Another of those unbiased sites like animalliberation.org.au? :rofl: You won't post it because you know they have no credibility, like you.


Now that the (deliberate ramming ) is irrefutable the comments that I am off topic have surfaced. :gob: Funny that:jerry:

Not irrefutable. The videos clealry refute it.


Should have Buthane got off when he had the chance………………who said he ever had the chance?

It's well documented that both sides have made statements saying just that.

[kwaka_crasher]

you did read what the thread was about? Ill pop it in crayon for ya'all.

Sorry for dragging it off topic - I just hate the lies this twit spouts.

[Skyryder]

It has been reported by 'both sides' that he had the opportunity and chose to stay.

Ok Fair comment. It's just I have not seen anything from SS on this. Not that that means anything.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

That's because you can't defend your lies now they've been exposed as such.



Boats that are stationary don't make wakes. Make up your mind - was it stationary or was it moving? You can't see the wake of the AG immediately before the collision from that video. You can only see it from the video shot from the Shonan Maru No.2 (below). Buffoon never yells stop or waves his arms.

That video clearly shows the AG was moving slowly (see the wake!) and then accelerated into the path of the Shonan Maru No.2 at the 14 sec point of the video. Immediately before impact (20 sec mark in the video) you can see the wake from the AG is very significant which proves it accelerated into the path of the Shonan Maru No.2.

So that makes you either a compulsive liar or just plain stupid. Quite possibly both.



Ah, yes... only the sea terrorists are allowed to be provocative. :rolleyes:



Now it was stationary again? Was there a wake or wasn't there? In the video you posted I see one at the beginning that you say wasn't ther. Please, make up your fucking mind!



That sure as hell isn't you. Everyone else looking at the video sees what is actually there, not just what they want to be there, like you do.



No, it wasn't.



No, both videos clearly show this is true.



So what? Sea Shepard don't obey maritime laws, why do you hold the Japanese to a higher standard? Live by the sword, die by the sword.



Another of those unbiased sites like animalliberation.org.au? :rofl: You won't post it because you know they have no credibility, like you.



Not irrefutable. The videos clealry refute it.



It's well documented that both sides have made statements saying just that.


The video on the AG is far clearer in what happened. Ya just a poor loser.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

You pro-greenpiece guy's a just bloody dreamers with your heads in the clouds!

Writing up history to read and sound the way you want it to be is typical of the socialist mindset!

Russia is currently rewriting Stalin's history to sound nice so that the school kids can have more pride in their country, FFS!

No matter what you want it to be, it still doesn't change the facts though, does it! :shifty:


What socalism, me being 'bloody minded' and Russia rewriting it's history on Stalin has anything to do with this thread I hve no idea.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Sorry for dragging it off topic - I just hate the lies this twit spouts.

So what lies is Tank spouting??

Skyryder

[kwaka_crasher]

The video on the AG is far clearer in what happened.

No, it's not. In that video you can't see behind the AG to observe the wake that proves they accelerated into the path of the Shonan Maru No.2.


So what lies is Tank spouting??

That shows your lack of comprehension of the written word.

[JimO]

Yep there is something seriously wrong when you wish ill on your fellow countrymen. Yep that 'brilliant' remark says it all. Was not too long ago when tank gets himself all depressed and posts up on KB for some sympathy.

No ones asking him to agree with Bethune but it's a pity he can not give others that in their 'goodwill' have given him. I think Tank is a shallow man that has run aground in the sea of life and can not get off the shoals that he creates for himself. Now that's 'brilliant' even if I do say so myself. :yes:


Skyryder

fuck next you will be accusing him of voting national

[Swoop]

it seems pretty obvious Bethune needs a new lawyer.
I believe that Carver's legal council has some free time now that case has been concluded.

[Skyryder]

Can't wait until the trial starts for some more fun.

K-C I'll give you the point that at the time of impact the AG was moving but has it occurred to your that from a stationary position they were trying to get out of the way. The video I posted clearly shows the Maru2 some distance off with cannon on bearing down on the AG. That shows a deliberate act and the 'crash' was the result.

Your position that the AG deliberately placed itself in danger and that Bethune placed his crew in harms way is just ridiculous.

Statements like these is where you lose your credibility and demonstrate your inability to rationalize this in a mature manner.

And try not to take my posts so personally. It just reinforces your lack of development.


Skyryder

[davereid]

No, it's not. In that video you can't see behind the AG to observe the wake that proves they accelerated into the path of the Shonan Maru No.2. That shows your lack of comprehension of the written word.

I don't think we can find any evidence that the AG deliberately drove under the keel of the SM to ensure their own destruction.

Its not relevant anyway, as SM can reliably argue that they had right-of-way due simply to their size. AG was a small and quick boat. ANY maritime investigation would find reasonable doubt for Japanese liability. Which is not the same as saying they were not liable, it just means adequate doubt, which is why no third party or government is interested.

I don't think SS have a snowballs show of winning any case about the ramming. Its impossible to absolutely prove it either way, which is why the rammings that SS have done have never been prosecuted.

Even if they took it to court, Japs don't give a fat rats arse about Dutch Courts, the IMF, or anyone else for that matter. Although common sense says they would spend a fortune defending it before ignoring the outcome, ensuring a pocketful of SS money was diverted lawyers, thus ensuring less money for next years voyage.

[Bikemad]

hmmmm .......the judges rule......the AG placed itself in the path of the oncoming boat.............the evidence being the AG wash,which if they were trying to avoid collision,should have been directed under the boat which it clearly isnt,assuming it has reverse.if not then only the portside engine would have been used to direct the bow of the AG away from the oncoming boat........
The Judges decision is final and no discussion or correspondence will be entered into

DING DING........round five

[Tank]

Can't wait until the trial starts for some more fun.

Nor can I.

Judge: "So PB - whats your defense for firing acid at the wailers and injuring them?"

PB: "Well - 3 days later we crashed boats - and that was their fault"

Judge: "Hadley relevant - that will be 15 years mother fucker"

PB : "Must remember to post defense to failblog.org"


Well - at least our commie friend Skyryder and I agree on something. The trial will be fun. Probaly not for PB, or his family - but for all friends of the sensible sentencing trust.

[Mully]

I thought I saw in the paper that his "Acid/Butter" "assault" is worth 15 years, and boarding the vessel is worth three.

Do Japan run sentences concurrently or consecutively?

[Tank]

I thought I saw in the paper that his "Acid/Butter" "assault" is worth 15 years, and boarding the vessel is worth three.

Do Japan run sentences concurrently or consecutively?

No idea - Im sure we will find out soon.

[JimO]

the dumb cunt probably thought it would be like NZ where you get a free meal, pat on the back and a ride home

[Ronin]

the dumb cunt probably thought it would be like NZ where you get a free meal, pat on the back and a ride home

All the whale meat he can eat?

[Brian d marge]

i can help you with the trial
the paper work alone will take years( if they do it their usual anorak way)

the judge RULES megacity one

It WILL be expensive and the fine if found guilty WILL be excessive

unless it hits the media and then it will " disappear "

Stephen

try $ 1500 for a speeding ticket ( 40 km over in a 50 )

[Tank]

unless it hits the media and then it will " disappear "


They know its in the media - and thats why Im thinking it wont go away - they will make an example of him.

Oh well.

[Brian d marge]

not if the Japanese lose face , or lose money in some way

Stephen

[Tank]

not if the Japanese lose face , or lose money in some way

Stephen

That was kind of what I was saying - I believe that should they not follow thru then they will lose face - thus the making an example of him.

On the money front - making people like SS think twice before fucking with 'em is only going to save money.

[kwaka_crasher]

They know its in the media - and thats why Im thinking it wont go away - they will make an example of him.

Oh well.

That's all we can hope for. :woohoo:

[Tank]

From Radio News today:

Updated at 3:17pm on 6 April 2010

The wife of New Zealand anti-whaling activist Peter Bethune says he is being held in virtual isolation in Japan with rapists and murderers.
Mr Bethune was detained after boarding a Japanese whaling vessel in the Southern Ocean in February.
He is in prison in Tokyo where five charges have been laid against him - with the most serious carrying a maximum jail term of 15 years.
His wife, Sharyn Bethune, told Morning Report that she has received three letters from him and it appears he is being held in maximum security and kept in his cell about 22 hours a day.

Mrs Bethune says it appears he is being used as a political target.


Memo to Mrs Bethune - Sorry but your husband bought this onto himself. He is not a political target (even tho' this seems to be a misguided attempt by him to make it political) - that is just how they treat prisoners over there.

[Brian d marge]

From Radio News today:

Updated at 3:17pm on 6 April 2010

The wife of New Zealand anti-whaling activist Peter Bethune says he is being held in virtual isolation in Japan with rapists and murderers.
Mr Bethune was detained after boarding a Japanese whaling vessel in the Southern Ocean in February.
He is in prison in Tokyo where five charges have been laid against him - with the most serious carrying a maximum jail term of 15 years.
His wife, Sharyn Bethune, told Morning Report that she has received three letters from him and it appears he is being held in maximum security and kept in his cell about 22 hours a day.

Mrs Bethune says it appears he is being used as a political target.


Memo to Mrs Bethune - Sorry but your husband bought this onto himself. He is not a political target (even tho' this seems to be a misguided attempt by him to make it political) - that is just how they treat prisoners over there.

Hes F#"#$%d
it may take five months to investigated ...

Stephen

[Hans]

See you are a typical Greenie - thinking its because I dont like, well, greenies.

So wrong you are. Personally - I live a rather green lifestyle and actually do a bit to keep NZ clean. So - is it Im anti-green - no.

Could it be that a idiot (regardless of his views) deliberately breaks the law (going on board boat / tresspass etc). He gets treated with respect from the Japs (who are not breaking the law - regardless of your views), and then they even offer him a get a 'get out of jail free' card to get off the boat. PB would have made his point and been able to leave.

But nooooooo - he wants to push it and push it - and now he has to take accountability for his actions.

He deserves it and I hope they punish him to the full extent. Exactly the same as I believe ALL criminals should be treated.

Or are you happy to forgive and forget if its a crime that you support the base cause of? Its views like this that got the tree hugging hippies that damaged the 'spy base' off.

break the law - pay the price. Simple really.

I was just wondering if you'd like to be reminded of your position on making public the names of people who have been granted name suppression by this country's justice system. I just thought I'd point out that little bit of hypocrisy.

[BiK3RChiK]

Talking to one of his 'colleagues' yesterday ( I wonder if they call them that?! ).. protesting mates then, he reckons he's gonna get 15 years and if he'd known that, then he wouldn't have done the 'publicity stunt' as he put it.....

15 years is a long time to reflect on ones' actions....

[Tank]

I was just wondering if you'd like to be reminded of your position on making public the names of people who have been granted name suppression by this country's justice system. I just thought I'd point out that little bit of hypocrisy.

I dont recall saying anything different (although I may have depending on the situation at the time).

But - personally once someone is guilty - then my position was is name and same em.

Yeah - I know I support Cameron Slater - who has probably broken all name suppression laws and is going to cop a fine for it. But - he is going to have to take accountability for his actions also.

Regardless - people have different views on different subjects - and on this one - Im all for the Japs.

[Hans]

I dont recall saying anything different (although I may have depending on the situation at the time).

But - personally once someone is guilty - then my position was is name and same em.

Yeah - I know I support Cameron Slater - who has probably broken all name suppression laws and is going to cop a fine for it. But - he is going to have to take accountability for his actions also.

Regardless - people have different views on different subjects - and on this one - Im all for the Japs.

I don't feel like trawling through your posts on the matter of the name suppression, doesn't really worry me. But I have to say I find whales much more likeable than the Japs.

[Bikemad]

But I have to say I find whales much more likeable than the Japs.

yeah ......jap chicks are all skinny and boney like...............you like em cuddly eh Hans

[Hans]

yeah ......jap chicks are all skinny and boney like...............you like em cuddly too eh Hans

OT, but I just threw up in my mouth a bit. Definitely DO NOT like them "cuddly".

[kwaka_crasher]

OT, but I just threw up in my mouth a bit. Definitely DO NOT like them "cuddly".

Calm down... nobody is judging you... chubby chasers are people too! :yeah:

[Hans]

Calm down... nobody is judging you... chubby chasers are people too! :yeah:

You don't have to chase chubby. Just catch up at a brisk walking pace as it's waddling along.

[kwaka_crasher]

You don't have to chase chubby. Just catch up at a brisk walking pace as it's waddling along.

:blink: :sick: :drinkup:

[Brian d marge]

203147in case you missed it the first time

yum yum

Stephen

[Bikemad]

that fellas takin the save the whales thing just a little to far..............

[oldrider]

203147in case you missed it the first time

yum yum

Stephen

I think he must have sneezed into it, he's probably allergic to the chlorine in the pool ! :Oops:

The maid in waiting looks excited about her turn next! :shifty:

[Hans]

I think he must have sneezed into it, he's probably allergic to the chlorine in the pool ! :Oops:

The maid in waiting looks excited about her turn next! :shifty:

Gsus Tittyfucking Christ! How long till we hit PD? Can't be long now...