Do we want more road cops or less?

[rastuscat]

Here's what The Press motoring journo thinks. It's amongst his 5 suggestions to improve road safety. He also wants compulsory 3rd party insurance............

"There's a visible on road police presence in Australia.

They're everywhere, even in deepest rural Western Australia, where a colleague lost his licence last year. They have a loophole-plugging knowledge of road policing and as a result every highway patrol officer is respected rather than despised in that large holiday isle to our west.

If you've heard stories of being fined heavily for resting your arm on the window opening in Queensland, or hit with a big one for failing to indicate, or maybee slapped with a citation for not filtering or failing to properly use traffic lanes, believe them. Simply, a policy of booking you for the little things means that you're less likely to try anything more serious. I didn't see a single police car over the holiday in Christchurch, and I live within 7km of the Square!"


http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/blogs/blog-drivetalk/3551840/Australias-better-road-safety-record

[CookMySock]

as a result every highway patrol officer is respected rather than despised in that large holiday isle to our west.Feared is the word you are looking for.

We could take the police out of that equation completely and replace them with gang members on noisy cruisers, or angry rednecks in huge V8 4WDs and the result would be identical.

I'm glad to hear that you somewhat disagree with this journalist, considering your vocation.


Steve

[Sentox]

Aren't we always hearing about police being understaffed for dealing with general crime? The idea of putting more resources into the traffic side of policing seems ridiculous. I'll happily take my chances with the retards on the roads if it means more police to chase down burglars, rapists, and murderers, thank you.

[whowhatwhere]

Aren't we always hearing about police being understaffed for dealing with general crime? The idea of putting more resources into the traffic side of policing seems ridiculous. I'll happily take my chances with the retards on the roads if it means more police to chase down burglars, rapists, and murderers, thank you.

If I was in Palmy, I'd be shouting you a pint right now.

[rastuscat]

Totally agree, but remember that depleting one resource to fund another is a bad idea.

You may have no idea how much resource the Police put into serious crime, as they are not visible, and their work is reactive i.e. wait for the crime to happen, then solve it. Most districts spend significant amounts on murders, rapes etc, it's just not that visible. The road policing thing is to try to prevent offences by high profile enforcement, so they are far more visible, and open to easy criticism. It's also a fact that road policing targets bad driving behaviour, while crime work tends to target criminals. Given that we are all capable of bad driving behaviour, it tends to be the wider public who get the tickets, and who want the police to spend more time picking on the bad people.

Just an observation.

[cromagnon]

I would prefer the police to be more visible on roads, actually patrolling rather than hiding behind some bushes with their radar pointed out the window. Do away with most of the mufti cars they use so much and park in places that will slow most people down. If you know there are police around actively patrolling you are more likely to alter your "bad" behaviour and keep under the speed limits. Giving out speeding tickets in speed traps where the police park just over a crest or behind some bushes puts most people in mindset of not wanting to get caught next time rather than altering their behaviour.

[Usarka]

Cool this has the makings of a good cop bash :wari:


slapped with a citation for not filtering

sounds ok to me.


You may have no idea how much resource the Police put into serious crime, as they are not visible, and their work is reactive i.e. wait for the crime to happen, then solve it.


unlike assualts, theft, burglary, etc....

[onearmedbandit]

"There's a visible on road police presence in Australia.



I go to Melbourne about twice a year and am constantly surprised at how few police cars I see on the roads.

[Scuba_Steve]

less P.I.G.s!!!
less P.I.G.s means less scams, less scams mean safer roads!, Safer roads... good for everyone! As the UK MOT tried to suppress, their own study into road policing shows it costs up to 1000 lives a year in the UK alone.

[Swoop]

I'd prefer to see decent driver training + testing that educates road users up to a decent standard. Perhaps then the police would be able to release resources to combat the "genuine" crime.

[onearmedbandit]

Unfortunately that's a vote killer.

[Skyryder]

Prior to the Traffic cops merging with the Police Christchurch driving was in most cases relatively law abiding. While there was not the number of traffic lights that there are now ‘running a red’ while not unknown was nowhere near as common as it is today. Road users actually stopped at compulsory stops. By far the majority do not do so today. In fact it's a rareity now. These are the two most noticeable offences, other than speeding, that in my many years of driving in Chch that stand out. While there are many excuses for inappropriate driving, time restraints, congestion etc. I am of the firm opinion that running reds and failure to stop at compulsory stops are a direct result of the merger where for a considerable period there was no ‘policing’ of traffic to any degree of seriousness. I believe that much of the indifferent driving we see today is a direct result of this.

[CookMySock]

Road users actually stopped at compulsory stops. By far the majority do not do so today. In fact it's a rareity now.I was working in my front yard, and three police cars in single-file rolled clean through the compulsory stop. There is no rush, no lights on - just general police work, yet at same intersection another cop will hide behind the trees all afternoon and snap people for exactly the same misdemeanor.

There's lots more.... but this isn't a bash the police thread.

Steve

[onearmedbandit]

I was working in my front yard, and three police cars in single-file rolled clean through the compulsory stop. There is no rush, no lights on - just general police work, yet at same intersection another cop will hide behind the trees all afternoon and snap people for exactly the same misdemeanor.

There's lots more.... but this isn't a bash the police thread.

Steve

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

[Ixion]

"There's a visible on road police presence in Australia. They're everywhere, even in deepest rural Western Australia, where a colleague lost his licence last year. They have a loophole-plugging knowledge of road policing and as a result every highway patrol officer is respected rather than despised in that large holiday isle to our west.

has teh author ever BEEN to Australai? or is he just swallowing the complacent PR of the Oz cops?

Australian police respected ? Yeah right. Like a Great White is respected, maybe (Note how carefully I avoided the analogy of the Brown Snake)

Feared, perhaps. But also loathed despised and avoided. The Australian police are universally acknowledged to be totally corrupt , in both the monetary and the "power corrupts" sense.

More importantly, their attitude that "the law is what this gun says it is " has seriously damaged respect for the Rule of Law in Australia. When the police atttude is "might makes right" inevitably the public will adopt the same philosophy. If you're powerful enough to get away with it, it's legal.

The Australian policing model is a VERY BAD one , which we should avoid. If we want to copy someone else (But why ? ) then copy Pomgolia.

[CookMySock]

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.I couldn't. I'm too angry. I would be part of the problem in seconds, and besides I'm a dirty filthy boy with a loud overtly-honest mouth and would embarrass hell out of the force for sure, and I wouldn't give a fuck. We are both better off well out of reach of each others' throats, I assure you.

In a way we are the same. No qualms and no morals.

Steve

[red mermaid]

Your ignorance of the actuality is amazing and shines through like a strong beacon in your post.

Each state has its own police force in Australia and they are unique in there own way.

And if you are talking about the Federal Police in "Australian police are universally acknowledged to be totally corrupt" then you are so far wide of the mark as they are usually the ones that investigate state police.

And dont attempt to justify your post by harking back to the old days in NSW (and only there) of the corruption that they had...it is 20-30 years ago.



has teh author ever BEEN to Australai? or is he just swallowing the complacent PR of the Oz cops?

Australian police respected ? Yeah right. Like a Great White is respected, maybe (Note how carefully I avoided the analogy of the Brown Snake)

Feared, perhaps. But also loathed despised and avoided. The Australian police are universally acknowledged to be totally corrupt , in both the monetary and the "power corrupts" sense.

More importantly, their attitude that "the law is what this gun says it is " has seriously damaged respect for the Rule of Law in Australia. When the police atttude is "might makes right" inevitably the public will adopt the same philosophy. If you're powerful enough to get away with it, it's legal.

The Australian policing model is a VERY BAD one , which we should avoid. If we want to copy someone else (But why ? ) then copy Pomgolia.

[Ixion]

OK. So you don't want NSW mentioned. How about Victoria, instead (the state you guys are so keen to copy). Just for a start, lets look at



In the 1980s and 1990s most Australian police forces battled widespread allegations of corruption and graft. These allegations culminated in the establishment of several Royal Commissions and anti-corruption watchdogs. Victoria Police have also had their fair share of inquiries (Beach et al.). Criticisms centred around the fact that Victoria Police members were fatally shooting members of the public (both innocent and guilty) at a rate exceeding that of all other Australian police forces combined [3].

In 2001, Christine Nixon was appointed Chief Commissioner, becoming the first woman to head a police force in Australia.

In addition to allegations of corruption among the Uniformed Members of Victoria Police, allegations also surfaced in respect of senior members of the Civil Service serving in Victoria Police. Two Motions were raised in the Supreme Court of Victoria. One, Motion 5771/2002 alleged that senior members of Victoria Police divulged the name of a senior Victoria Police Whistleblower to the detriment of his safety. The other, Motion 6337/2002 alleged that the Ombudsman's Office and Auditor General's Office in Victoria had falsified evidence and produced a whitewash report into allegations of corruption in relation to several multi-million dollar contracts. For reference, these documents may be viewed at the Prothonotary's Office at the Supreme Court of Victoria in Melbourne.

In June 2003, Taskforce Purana was set up under the command of (then) Assistant Commissioner Simon Overland to investigate Melbourne's "gangland killings". Victoria Police boat docked.

In May 2004 former police officer Simon Illingworth appeared on Australian Story to tell his disturbing story of entrenched police corruption in Victoria Police. He has also written a book about his experiences entitled "Filthy Rat".

In early 2007, Don Stewart, a retired Supreme Court judge, called for a Royal Commission into Victorian police corruption. Stewart alleged that the force is riddled with corruption that the Office of Police Integrity was unable to deal with. [4].

Don't take my word for it though. How about an Oz newspaper, they should know
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/05/26/1085461830675.html


May 27, 2004
Victoria desperately needs a police inquiry. The evidence cannot be ignored.

Article continues with lots of such evidence

Indeed, we might ask Premier Bracks and his Police Minister the following question: if the present evidence for an inquiry is not enough, despite having passed the threshold that pushed NSW, Queensland and, most recently, Western Australia into royal commissions and inquiries, then what precisely would be enough to warrant such an inquiry in Victoria?



So, that's corruption in RECENT years (have you had your eyes shut for the last 20 years) in NSW, QLD and WA. And an authoritive Oz paper blowing the whistle on as bad a state of affairs in Victoria. You're running out of states to hide behind

Not to mention the Hoser files. Heard of them ? (probably not, none so blind as those who cannot see). A whole book about police corruption in Victoria . As well as Mr Illingworth's

But, I guess, to you, a cop, any cop, is always right, and whatever a cop does can't , by definition , be wrong or improper. Cos cops are God, right. The Oz police have the same attitude. Plus the advantage of being able to shoot anyone who disagrees.

[Geemsee]

Having been on the receiving end of the UK's 'visible police presence' .......or unmarked patrol cars as they are more commonly known (see earlier posts!!), I would say nah, less traffic cops is fine by me!!

The great thing about NZ riding in my (pommie) opinion is that by comparison to the UK the roads are quiet and the cops tend to stick to the stretches where they can issue the most tickets, which generally speaking are boring motorways that should be avoided anyway!

I can't comment on Aus riding/driving as I've never been, but if they issue tickets for the kinda stuff mentioned in this thread I think I'll get the Mrs to drive instead!



Straight roads are those annoying bits used to join the corners up!:yes:

[spajohn]

I live and work in and around central Wellington and am constantly amazed by how many police I see on the road. Similarly I was talking to a guy behind the counter at Mobil in Paraparaumu and he commented that he has heard more sirens on that stretch of road than he did living in a city (in the UK?) with a population greater than all of NZ.

Some of the points in the article were valid around age of vehicles etc, although doesn't mention that some states in Aus do not require a WoF at all, whereas all NZ road vehicles do regardless of age. As for not getting demerit points I find our situation somewhat laughable here in NZ, as quite frankly without them there is very little deterrent. As much as I don't want to get demerit points if at all possible if it was more than a revenue gathering exercise surely they should...I've had conversations with friends who are police and ex-police who question the "black spots" camera's target as often they are not area's that accidents have occurred, just lucrative...think Mt Vic tunnel entrance in Wellington (although that has since been removed).

[SPman]

and as a result every highway patrol officer is respected rather than despised in that large holiday isle to our west.
You are fucking joking! Most people I know in W.A. (and that includes a lot of "average, 4WD driving, country folk) wouldn't cross the road to piss on them if they were on fire! All the ones I've met are pedantic, humourless, anally retentive shits who seem to be totally programmed in state government "safety speak".

[MaxB]

There is a joke told to me by my Aussie rellies

"(Insert state name here) eg NSW police, the best that money can buy"

Not much respect there.

[Sentox]

My only experience with the Australian highway police is watching them on TV.

What amazed me is that on a TV show ostensibly designed to feature them in a flattering light, they still came across as dicks.

[davereid]

Its seems that even with 21% of police time dedicated to traffic, our road toll is more influenced by a sunny weekend that the police presence.

Strangely we seem all over ourselves to spend money on traffic enforcement. Yet as many kiwis die from accidents at home, from suicide or prostate cancer, yet we dont fund these areas at all.

Thank christ, the last thing need is a licence to do DIY, or a government interview every year to make sure I'm not depressed !

[red mermaid]

Im sure someone said we should follow the UK police model because they aren't corrupt like the Australian police forces!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249382/Ali-Dizaei-GUILTY-perverting-course-justice.html

Looks like you are once again talking about something you know very little about!

[R6_kid]

Interesting... hasn't the road toll in Australia been going up? Especially since they removed the open speed limit on the Outback roads?

[Morcs]

id like to think theyd just leave it the way it is. any changes to the system arent going to benefit us, just piss us off more.

[Maha]

I'd like to see More!!
More cops doing less on the motorway system that is.
If they were to spend less time there and more time elsewhere, where they should be, policing the 75-80kph drivers that cause frustration, which leads to possible mistakes being made, then possibly, the road toll may reduce. But theres not alot of revenue to be made doing that is there? ...mmmm as you were.

[p.dath]

Feared, perhaps. But also loathed despised and avoided. The Australian police are universally acknowledged to be totally corrupt , in both the monetary and the "power corrupts" sense.

+1. The corruption in the Australian Police force has been well publicised.

Also compulsory third party insurance has been deemed not financially worthwhile. The vast majority of the New Zealand fleet on the roads is already insured (something like 93% from memory). Earlier this year when they investigated those vehicles invovled in accidents with no insurance they found most of them were un-insurable drivers. For example, they were driving with no licence, wrong licence class, while on a suspended licence, etc.

So the effect of introducing compulsory third party insurance was neglible, but there was a huge cost to administer it.

You have to remember, publications make money by getting more eye balls to look at them - not with factual well informed information.

[JMemonic]

I wonder if the author is looking through rose coloured glasses and wants to hark back to the days where Police were Police and MoT officers enforced the traffic rules.

We do need more front line police, we need less back office bullshit, we need clearly defined laws that lawyers cant twist (that's on both sides) and that the public can easily understand and if we are to have a restorative justice system we need to come up with a system that works and has penalties in it for recidivist offenders and we need to devise this by looking around the world and picking the best bits discarding the crap and figuring out what works for NZ not so clone of Victoria with a little Sweden thrown in.

The author is impressed by the Aussie road toll vs the Nz on for a comparable period ie Easter and a couple of his comments make sense, however he seems to forget that Aussie roads are for the better part are straight long things, not twisty hilly things we thankfully have here, he forgets there seems to be a little better driver education (if only a little better). There are a number of factors that go into this toll and lack of visible Police on the roads is such a minor factor in the equation, as is the age of the fleet well maintained 15 year old cars are are often better than a non maintained 8 year old car. We have the requirement here for warrants of fitness were as in Australia they don't so there is no requirement for maintenance so a little off roading and as long as the car looks straight, it could be a death trap on wheels and its fine on the road.

[SMOKEU]

The reason why NZ has such a high road toll per capita is because our roads are shit compared to countries with a higher population density who can afford better, multi laned roads.

[p.dath]

The reason why NZ has such a high road toll per capita is because our roads are shit compared to countries with a higher population density who can afford better, multi laned roads.

I agree that the road toll could be changed with better quality roads - but I feel ultimate responsibility rests with those that use the roads - us.

It's easy to blame your tools.

[SMOKEU]

I agree that the road toll could be changed with better quality roads - but I feel ultimate responsibility rests with those that use the roads - us.

It's easy to blame your tools.

A lot of other countries, such as South Africa, have long, straight roads with wide lanes and thick concrete barriers to prevent head on collisions. We simply don't have that luxury on most of the open roads here.

[Toaster]

Keep in mind that much of the road policing funding, equipment etc is targeted funding. If they reduced those services, e.g. Highway Patrol or Drink Drive buses then the funds would not be allocated to general duties, CIB or otherwise.

ACC and the transport agencies that fund these teams would not pass it onto police in general.

I would love to see more resources put into crimefighting and prevention, but government also then has to pay for the extra funding to the justice system needed to cope with the outputs of that increase in police resourcing. This government would be unlikely to do this without a lot of revenue coming in to pay for it.

I would also like to see the extra police that were funded and promised to the public actually working ON THE FRONT LINE and not seconded off to back office roles on projects, traffic, infringements and goodness knows where else.... which seems to have escaped media attention.

Maybe time for a national oil exploration company that WE get all the revenue from. Look at Norway. We would love better roads, truly free education, better medical care, higher standards of living.

[peasea]

I agree that the road toll could be changed with better quality roads - but I feel ultimate responsibility rests with those that use the roads - us.

It's easy to blame your tools.

Agreed. The attitude toward gaining your driver's license in NZ is that it is a 'right of passage' for teens (in the main) and that little piece of paper, oops, plastic (whatever) does not garner enough respect. Put simply; it's too damned easy to obtain. I don't know the figures but I do know that in many European countries the cost of obtaining a license is high, the courses are tougher and for those two reasons alone you generally have more respect for the end result. Armed with that respect it is more likely that the holder of the license will be more keen to hang onto it.
If it took a full pass of a predetermined number of lessons with a suitably qualified instructor (not Uncle Bully in the ute) and thousands of dollars to pass the learner's/restricted stages of the license testing then that groundwork would be a far more solid foundation for teens to hit the road with. Come on, a scratchy first up and a quick spin around the block six months later is hardly what I'd call 'driving instruction'.

Also, when it comes to 'respect' don't forget that respect is a two-way street and is earned. Although TV cops and robbers-type shows are perhaps not a difinitive insight as to the workings of the police in general, you have to admit that on those shows Ozzie cops and American cops are way more polite than our own. The word 'sir' is used almost universally when Ozzie/US cops are addressing a male, not 'bro' or 'mate'. If you're a cop, call me 'sir' and I'll call you 'officer'. Call me bro and I'll call you 'cunt-face'.

BOT. Tougher licensing tests would be a good start and that should (all things being equal), hopefully, result in greater respect for the license itself, other road users and perhaps even the police, which will result in a need for LESS of them, not more.

[Genie]

awesome post Mr Peasea, i'm out of blingage

*****

you can have some stars instead

[peasea]

awesome post Mr Peasea, i'm out of blingage

*****

you can have some stars instead

I woke up feeling all sensible and stuff, it'll have to stop!

[Toaster]

Also, when it comes to 'respect' don't forget that respect is a two-way street and is earned. Although TV cops and robbers-type shows are perhaps not a difinitive insight as to the workings of the police in general, you have to admit that on those shows Ozzie cops and American cops are way more polite than our own. The word 'sir' is used almost universally when Ozzie/US cops are addressing a male, not 'bro' or 'mate'. If you're a cop, call me 'sir' and I'll call you 'officer'. Call me bro and I'll call you 'cunt-face'.

Police in NZ should generally not be using terms like "bro" or "mate" and they are taught that. Many obviously forget that or adapt more relaxed kiwi-isms over time. They are also taught not to call people 'Sir' unless the title befits the person. They are told to be polite and professional and act according to the circumstances appropriately. I for one NEVER used the term "sir" as unless you were a senior officer or had a knighthood. Everyone, even the smartasses, were just spoken to politely and if warranted, firmly. If they were a dickhead, then they were dealt with... firmly.

Police are not there to kiss your arse, but to do a job professionally. If you want to be called sir, get a butler!

[peasea]

Police in NZ should generally not be using terms like "bro" or "mate" and they are taught that. Many obviously forget that or adapt more relaxed kiwi-isms over time. They are also taught not to call people 'Sir' unless the title befits the person. They are told to be polite and professional and act according to the circumstances appropriately. I for one NEVER used the term "sir" as unless you were a senior officer or had a knighthood. Everyone, even the smartasses, were just spoken to politely and if warranted, firmly. If they were a dickhead, then they were dealt with... firmly.

Police are not there to kiss your arse, but to do a job professionally. If you want to be called sir, get a butler!
In that case I'll return to calling all cops pigs. I should have known that to have polite coppers in NZ was just a wild dream.

[scumdog]

In that case I'll return to calling all cops pigs. I should have known that to have polite coppers in NZ was just a wild dream.

Ya must be one of those lucky enough to be a 'rude cop magnet'!:nya:

[peasea]

Ya must be one of those lucky enough to be a 'rude cop magnet'!:nya:

Not in recent years..........small town coppers seem to have manners.

[peasea]

I shoulda said 'call city cops pigs'. My bad.

[Scuba_Steve]

I shoulda said 'call city cops pigs'. My bad.

Just remember its not pigs its P.I.G.s (Police Inforcement "Guys") this way they cant get you with a deformation/slander case

[rustyrobot]

...its not pigs its P.I.G.s (Police Inforcement "Guys") this way they cant get you with a deformation/slander case

No, they'll bust you for bad spelling instead :)

"Enforcement"

[peasea]

No, they'll bust you for bad spelling instead :)

"Enforcement"

Which would make them P.E.G's.
Hany for hanging out the laundry.

[Sentox]

I don't know the figures but I do know that in many European countries the cost of obtaining a license is high, the courses are tougher and for those two reasons alone you generally have more respect for the end result.

I've seen estimates around $3,000 to get through the licensing process in Germany. One Top Gear episode said Finland required six or so lessons on a skidpad to acquire your license.

Makes a difference.

[peasea]

I've seen estimates around $3,000 to get through the licensing process in Germany. One Top Gear episode said Finland required six or so lessons on a skidpad to acquire your license.

Makes a difference.

Absolutely, and there is no reason why such strategies cannot be employed in NZ. All we need is a few politicians with the balls to implement them.

[Indoo]

Will never happen in this country so long as driving is viewed as an essential human right that even our worst recidivist drunk drivers can't do wtihout.

[onearmedbandit]

Will never happen in this country so long as driving is viewed as an essential human right that even our worst recidivist drunk drivers can't do wtihout.

Agree 100%

[terbang]

Will never happen in this country so long as driving is viewed as an essential human right that even our worst recidivist drunk drivers can't do wtihout.

Well yeah it is viewed that way, but outside the main centres there is little public transport available or affordable to Joe Bloggs Kiwi. Perhaps that's why its seen this way.
Looking at recent stats comparing NZ and Aus Easter holiday road death toll surely points to something significantly wrong with us here in NZ.
However do we need beating up more or educating more?

[peasea]

Well yeah it is viewed that way, but outside the main centres there is little public transport available or affordable to Joe Bloggs Kiwi. Perhaps that's why its seen this way.
Looking at recent stats comparing NZ and Aus Easter holiday road death toll surely points to something significantly wrong with us here in NZ.
However do we need beating up more or educating more?

Depends what you drive/ride. I say beat the shit out of Lada drivers.

[scumdog]

Well yeah it is viewed that way, but outside the main centres there is little public transport available or affordable to Joe Bloggs Kiwi. Perhaps that's why its seen this way.

Bad luck for them - life ain't always fair.....

(But in short you're saying we sacrifice a few lifes each year so country bumpkins can drive??:shutup::dodge:)

[Smifffy]

Well yeah it is viewed that way, but outside the main centres there is little public transport available or affordable to Joe Bloggs Kiwi. Perhaps that's why its seen this way.
Looking at recent stats comparing NZ and Aus Easter holiday road death toll surely points to something significantly wrong with us here in NZ.
However do we need beating up more or educating more?

1. There is no public transport in NZ worthy of the name, regardless of which centre you're in.
2. Comparing any stats between NZ & Aus is fraught with peril from almost any point of view (in fact it only serves to reinforce my point 1 above)
3. Given almost any opportunity Joe Bloggs Kiwi living outside a main centre will state categorically that they could never live in one of the main centres, and their little community is the best in the world, so fuck em if they have no public transport & can't get a licence - let em walk.
4. No doubt even if one of those $6K licence schemes came in, your common or garden variety P addict will ask the welfare state to subsidise their licensing costs, since the youngest and most abused of their offspring requires "counselling" out of town once a month.

[Smifffy]

Duplicate post removed

[EJK]

NZ Police Service on recession?

[Berries]

I say beat the shit out of Lada drivers.

:shit: I had a Lada once. The best winter car you could ever have. Narrow tyres got you through deep snow. Always started on the button no matter how cold. Most reliable car I ever owned actually, till I crashed it in to a fallen tree.

[peasea]

:shit: I had a Lada once. The best winter car you could ever have. Narrow tyres got you through deep snow. Always started on the button no matter how cold. Most reliable car I ever owned actually, till I crashed it in to a fallen tree.

So again the abilities of Lada drivers are brought into question.

[davereid]

Bad luck for them - life ain't always fair.....(But in short you're saying we sacrifice a few lifes each year so country bumpkins can drive??:shutup::dodge:)

We make that decision all the time, in the name of convenience.

For example, we could massively reduce the road toll by reducing the open road speed limit from 100 to 40. We choose not to do so because there is a social and financial advantage in a higher speed limit. Its the same reason we tolerate motorcycles. There are only very few bikers who use the motorcycle purely for transport. For most its a toy, a type of recreation. We could adopt a 12HP, 125cc limit like the Philipines. This would be good for the environment, would no disadvantage a single "utilitarian" transport" motorcyclist, yet would save dozens of lives every year.

[Berries]

Well I didn't know they were taking the town centre Christmas tree down at the time.

[sinfull]

Bring back carless days ! Women on odd numbers, men on even !

[rastuscat]

We make that decision all the time, in the name of convenience.

For example, we could massively reduce the road toll by reducing the open road speed limit from 100 to 40. We choose not to do so because there is a social and financial advantage in a higher speed limit. Its the same reason we tolerate motorcycles. There are only very few bikers who use the motorcycle purely for transport. For most its a toy, a type of recreation. We could adopt a 12HP, 125cc limit like the Philipines. This would be good for the environment, would no disadvantage a single "utilitarian" transport" motorcyclist, yet would save dozens of lives every year.

Outstanding post.

[peasea]

Bring back carless days ! Women on odd numbers, men on even !

Carlos Daze? Wasn't he a Mexican guitarist?

Women ARE odd numbers.

[peasea]

Outstanding post.

Maybe we should write to the Minister of Transport with dr's suggestions?

[slofox]

I want more cops stopping all those other buggers who drive/ride like loonies. And less cops where I ride...:whistle:

[peasea]

I want more cops stopping all those other buggers who drive/ride like loonies. And less cops where I ride...:whistle:

slofox for President!!!!

[scumdog]

Which would make them P.E.G's.
Hany for hanging out the laundry.

Oh yeah, a few of them hany are just great for hanging out the laundry, oh yes...:shifty:

[peasea]

Oh yeah, a few of them hany are just great for hanging out the laundry, oh yes...:shifty:

Darn it, typo time and spotted by someone who can't pronounce the letter 'r'.
Arrgh!

I thought you were busy putting on cuppas and scones for visitors to your new sleepout, oops, I mean, 'office'.

[monkey99]

Well it could be a U Turning Cop or it could be a fool with to much of a skinful.. either way that's one less biker :( http://bit.ly/967j7V

[Hopeful Bastard]

Well, If more patrol cars on the road means this is what happens, Then no.. Keep them off the road! R.I.P man

[DaddyK]

They murdered our mate. They fucking murdered him with stupidity. It was a simple ride. He was just going home. We had just been to the Coroglen. He wasnt drinking. He ate a steak sandwich and a blue iso drink. He was going home to hang out with his mates who had went grocery shopping for him. He was due to have back surgery in 3 weeks. Raise our rates and pick us off one at a time? You can bet that fucking pig will walk away without anything. He will be made the "hero", and our mate will be drug through the mud...just like he died.

[Farab]

They murdered our mate. They fucking murdered him with stupidity. It was a simple ride. He was just going home. We had just been to the Coroglen. He wasnt drinking. He ate a steak sandwich and a blue iso drink. He was going home to hang out with his mates who had went grocery shopping for him. He was due to have back surgery in 3 weeks. Raise our rates and pick us off one at a time? You can bet that fucking pig will walk away without anything. He will be made the "hero", and our mate will be drug through the mud...just like he died.First off, condolences to his family and friends, very sad and tragic.

As for your post, put it this way, I wouldn't be surpised at a particular outcome. You see, he was "saving" the public at large, going after that "reckless" driver.

You have to watch not getting reamed every time you use the roads. Last week I saw, I shit you not, 3 "Highway Patrol" units, in 3 seperate spots, pull cars over within 1 km, in peak hour traffic. If I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't have believed it. The next morning I counted 4 within a 2 km space. Revenue collecting galore. Yet when my neighbour got burgled, they only showed up 23 hours after the fact, no money making in that, you see.

On the Shore we, on a daily basis, have several "Highway Patrol" (and unmarked cars) skulking between Devonport, Castorbay and beyond, ticketing all and sundry, even push bike riders. I mean those push bikes riders can leave lot of death and destruction in their wake.

Bottom line, take 50% of the "road" cops of the road and put them on front line duties and catch all the murderes, rapists, burglars, armed robbers and drug dealers first. Clean up all the crap that matter first and leave the average already overtaxed Joe / Jane on their way to work in heavy peak hour traffic, to earn a living to pay for your damn wages, in this already trying ecomonic times the hell alone!

.

[rapid van cleef]

amen to compulsory 3rd party insurance. i dont want someone to crash into me on my bike or in my car to have no insurance, then ive got the hassle of fighting to get compensation for my vehicle etc. insurance is very very cheap here anyway. its massively irresponsible to take to the roads without it in my opinion.

[Ixion]

Given the rate at which careless driving by cops kills motorcyclists (and they don't appear to give a shit about it), I think the answer to the original question (more or fewer road cops) is clear. Fewer, they are too dangerous, we will be safer without them.

[oldrider]

Post #15 just ran over top of post #14, something is wrong, call the police!

[Indoo]

Given the rate at which careless driving by cops kills motorcyclists .

You obviously know the answer so what exactly is the rate?

[Swoop]

the UK's 'visible police presence' .......or unmarked patrol cars as they are more commonly known...
A bit of an oxymoron?

There is a joke told to me by my Aussie rellies

"(Insert state name here) eg NSW police, the best that money can buy"

Not much respect there.
Is it still a $50- note inside your driving licence holder now, or has it gone up a bit?
QLD cops eh...

[Geemsee]

:Police:
A bit of an oxymoron?...


Yesh, exactly!

Though I've met a few cops that could be described as Poxymorons in my time too!!:Police:

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mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; font-size:10.0pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> District Road Policing Manager, Inspector Leo Tooman, said 38-year-old Te Kauwhata man, Paul Adam Timothy BROWN, lost his life when the Kawasaki road bike he was riding collided with a turning Highway Patrol car on Waerenga rd, east of Te Kauwhata.


I'm absolutely ... well lost for words.. how can the police report this!!


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a utility vehicle heading towards them at a speed of about 154km/h."


Immediately after reffering to the traffic officers vehicle turning?! That means the gun from the rear window tagged the poor fellow first & the cop decided the best thing was to get BROADSIDE as the vehicle approached!!!


This at very least looks like manslaughter when the comments are written in this order. I like a safe society.. but quite a few of these Coppers are looking/behaving like Brownshirts..


Fcuk you police on the road: Your killers & you don't give a fcuk!

[terbang]

Well we need less of the useless pricks that we currently have.

[saltydog]

Well we need less of the useless pricks that we currently have.

Not a truer word spoken on this site.

[biker baz]

What a great way to lower unemployment figures. Train em all as po-lice traffikers.
Teach em all how to do U-turns in front of a vehicle. Kills both drivers, lowers population, funeral directors get rich & quite soon there are so few cars on the road it is safe to speed again.
Vote for me next election.

[scumdog]

What a great way to lower unemployment figures. Train em all as po-lice traffikers.
Teach em all how to do U-turns in front of a vehicle. Kills both drivers, lowers population, funeral directors get rich & quite soon there are so few cars on the road it is safe to speed again.
Vote for me next election.

No thanks, we already have enough wankers in Parliament.:shifty:

[{.bLanK}G_o_D]

I say bring back the MOT. Let the fuzz do real policing.

[schrodingers cat]

For sure more education and driver training blah blah. That wouldn't lead to any reduction in enforcement standards - quite the opposite. After all that expense you'd damn well better behave.

Its the targetting on the easy stuff that gets peoples goat - speeding, failure to give way etc. Its a pity they don't do a bit more about the plain lazy and inconsiderate driving you see every day which contributes to frustration and poor decision making. Trouble is, Joe Public would cry harassment.

There are a lot of haters on this site. There are good cops and bad cops like everything else in life. Those who are getting 'harrassed' need to take a look at themselves


I say bring back the MOT. Let the fuzz do real policing.

Agree