50cc engine upgrade advice anyone?

[DODO``]

Hi
I recently bougth 2003 Yamaha vino 50cc. scooter. ;)

Ive been riding 250 till last year and its a bit of a down grade. But I love it. I just love that retro look and everything.

however, I live in north shore and work at city. I would love to commute on it but being 50cc its almost imposible to get around on the motorway unless its heavly congested.

Ive checked with land transport agency and the police, they both said there is no law for 50cc scooter getting on the motorway. although police said they will fine me if i go to slow. :shit:

So I though I might take the challenge of doing a engine upgrade so it can speed upto around 90km/hr.
I know, by the time I finish working on it, it will probably cost same as (if not more) just buying the bigger scooter but, I love the look of my scooter (givin it at custom front headlight panel already and everything) I dont think I can settle for anything else now. :yes:

New at playing with bike. and I thought this wld be a great place to find out where to find parts etc.

I would appriciate any comments or advice. with which engine to start with.
or even this whole idea is preposterous?? to work/ maintain etc etc.

I might just do the work at my workshop as i like to believe myself as a bit of a handy man, (done car engine swaps etc etc)

You guys had been fantastic hlep last time, and I know you guys will be this time too!

Thanks very much guys!

Please help =)

[CookMySock]

There are all sorts of scooter hot-up bits from mild to wild, but I think you will need substantial mechanical experience to begin down that road.

I think you are stuck with finding a similar genre scoot with a larger engine.

Steve

[DODO``]

oh i c ..
vino 125cc doesnt seem to be imported to NZ yet??

I might go the other way around then? get 125 and change the pannels? haha;; just keeping my options open..

[CookMySock]

Maybe some of the little chinese 125 scoot engines will bolt straight in.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Complete-engines/auction-281475755.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Complete-engines/auction-281355351.htm

Steve

[DODO``]

"125cc scotter engine." ?? something always tells me to stay well away, from those chinese parts...especially when it comes to bike bits.. pratly the reason why I started with japanese. nice to know there are straight bolt on engines out there thought. Thank you so much. do you happen to know if any straight bolt on jap motors are available? Many Thanks.

[CookMySock]

Nah I dunno mate. I'd say none of them were made in japan.

Steve

[SS90]

The Vino engine was the same as the Malagutti (not sold in NZ, but really popular in Europe), and Yamaha used the same engine (Jog), and pretty much all of the 50cc engines you see from China have the same engine. The main difference was the size of the small end bearing (I think 14 or 15mm was the 2 sizes available)

The engine designation for Yamaha was 3KJ, I can't remember what the Chinese designate them as.

For this engine you can buy a 70cc kit. You don't need to change the carb.

Once you fit the kit (simple), you also have to change the transmission (variator roller weights, and centrafugal clutch springs), but these kits are readily available.

You definately want to fit an expansion chamber...again, readily available, both in NZ, and Aussie, and not expensive (made in China).

These engines are so common it's not funny.

Once you do all this (don't just do the cylinder, you need to do the whole thing... all up maybe a grand), you will hve a 90 KM/h scooter, (maybe a little more), that is no longer a moped remember that.

I would try www.scootling.co.nz

[DODO``]

oh man geat stuff Thanks so much. I will give a good read on the website. and yes I already have motorcycle license. =) YAY

[Spearfish]

If tinkering and learning about engines is part of the fun of riding then go for it.
here are just some things that could help....or hinder?
search google for a "free service manual" in pdf for your model of scoot, they are great for torque settings for different parts (some are higher than expected) with exploded views of components .

the scooter review are modding a jog so watch what they get up to.


you can do most if not all at home including
bigger cylinder with better port timing, biggest job but easy.
racing small end bearing
variator
clutch (springs etc)
oversize belt
bigger carb
knock out air-box restrictor (pod filters are loud and the induction noise draws unwanted attention)
CDI (its plug and play) I didn't bother with the cdi.
BUT...
rejetting the carb is better left to someone who has done it before and its cheaper (they can change down jets then just charge for the one) also they have a better starting point for jet sizes when running in a new cylinder.
Do as much as possible in one go, especially if your paying for labour. every slightest thing needs a rejet.

To be honest, your better off getting a bigger scoot for the motorway the cost of modding a moped overlaps a bigger scoot with just the pipe alone, maintenance shoots up and range per tank dives.
The little brakes can be upgraded but they aren't that flash over 80kph.
Sticky tyres should be on the list and you can get a few k's more from bigger rear tyres
Cops will look over the scoot if your doing over 80kph with moped plates especially over the harbour bridge, bikers will look hard if you filtering as fast as them...Its as funny as a fight tho....

[danchop]

ive got a suzuki uz125 engine if you think you can make that fit

[DODO``]

Thanks very much for the comments people,

Guys from scooterling quoted me $750 to get the top speed to around 85km/hr with the torque needed. 70cc upgrade kit.

Im really on the fence here,

I would really love to hear from someone who has already done this sort of thing and learn the real life pros and cons about this mod.

maybe moving house to somewhere where I dont have to use the harbour bridge is the answer.?? LOL haha;;

[Spearfish]

it will be screaming its nuts off at 85kpg and the range on a tank will drop from over from over 160kms per tank to around 100-120kms.
The front brakes will wear out fast and it usually means the rotor as well.
Police will watch you, mostly bike cops, they have more clues.
Remember the harbour bridge is under video surveillance, but they didn't install cameras just to catch mopeds.
If a pod filter and semi racing pipe are used you can inadvertently advertise a race if you filter to the front of a queue, (mostly Fridays and after dark) I took me by surprise the first few times ...

Then if you get caught you have an illegal bike that's not registered in the correct class and you have NO insurance if they can prove the modifications were a contributing factor to the cause of the crash.

[DangerMice]

mate of mine did a 70cc upgrade and new chamber on his Piaggio Zip 50 (think he might have done a high speed pully too, but can't remember). He reckons he gets about 90kph, but it's an educated guess based on how fast cars are passing him on the motorway as his speedo only goes to 60. He had to piss around with the jet sizing for AGES to get it running smoothly. He hasn't changed the rego and has no insurance but hasn't come to any grief. Yet..........

[DODO``]

I did take my bike to work using the traffic jam hours, 8:30 ish in morning and 5:30 ish evening. 3 times already.?
you guys know the weathers been fantastic over last couple of days,,
but not quite yesterday? wasnt raining but quite windy.

The way back home on the harbor bridge, I thought I was going to get blown away =_=;;; its not funny..
didnt realise with the fantastic weather for the past couple of days, this scooter was very light..

if I add every information put together I think im better off getting 150.
mods and cops shenanigans aside, I dont think I will be risking my life ay..

and this rises another Q.

first of all im looking at VESPA BELLADONNA 150 http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=273747463
1. how stable is 150 on the harbour bridge? (I had 250 and now 50, so im guessing somewhere in between?)
2. is Vespa reliable like Japanese bikes? (as far as I know, not quite in the past but it is now?)
3. whats it like to live with? Pros and cons?

and I see on Trademe there are some clones from LML brand? does anyone know if they are any better? or worse?

Thanks heaps guys. You guys are great.

[DangerMice]

disclaimer: no experience with them myself. BUT i have read a few nasty things about the retro scooter company (http://www.retroscooter.co.nz/belladonna.htm) (the importers) in terms of service, but I used to work in the same building as the guy who owns it (or did then) and he was a straight up guy, rode the same belladonna for 5 years. As far as I know, the Belladonna is LML, not Vespa. LML used to produce the Vespa under license, then started making this clone. I could be wrong tho, I'm sure someone will be along to correct me soon. Smart looking machine in that ad tho :)

I hear the SYM VS150 is a very good scoot too.

[danchop]

if your a light person around 75kgs a suzuki uz125 can easily top 100km/h and if you want to fiddle theres heaps of go fast stuff for them and theyre bloody reliable

[Spearfish]

if your a light person around 75kgs a suzuki uz125 can easily top 100km/h and if you want to fiddle theres heaps of go fast stuff for them and theyre bloody reliable

And they are cheap at the moment, scoots and bikes seem cheaper around the end or the "season."

[MisterD]

disclaimer: no experience with them myself. BUT i have read a few nasty things about the retro scooter company (http://www.retroscooter.co.nz/belladonna.htm) (the importers) in terms of service, but I used to work in the same building as the guy who owns it (or did then) and he was a straight up guy, rode the same belladonna for 5 years. As far as I know, the Belladonna is LML, not Vespa. LML used to produce the Vespa under license, then started making this clone. I could be wrong tho, I'm sure someone will be along to correct me soon. Smart looking machine in that ad tho :)


Yeah spot on...LML is the Indian company that used to make Vespas under licence and makes the Belladonna clone now. In the States and Europe it's called the "Stella" so you can probably hook into a bit more info via that. I've not heard of any problems with them in standard trim and the usual 2-smoke issues when you start tinkering. Dunno about stability etc, hanging an engine on one side of a bike seems a silly idea to me - PM Flatcap, he used to run (a tuned) one before he got fed up of changing gears.

There's a new 4-stroke version coming soon I believe.

Pick up a second-hand one and take it to Scooterworld across the road from Retro for spanner work would be my advice

[CookMySock]

And they are cheap at the moment, scoots and bikes seem cheaper around the end or the "season."It seems with the new licensing changes there is no financial advantage from registering a scoot, so likely that will impact their sales as well.

Steve

[DODO``]

Belladonna http://www.thescooterreview.com/component/content/article/274-belladonna-rv150-review?showall=1

PX200 http://www.thescooterreview.com/component/content/article/300-vespa-px-200?showall=1

these two reviews with what you guys told me seems to sumed it up for me. really.

I think I will stick with 150 at this stage, i will get the real vespa when Im rich enough to efford it ^^

got to list my vino on the market now. hope its not too late and out of "season" ;)

Thanks very much for your advices guys, couldnt have made the decision without your help.

Thanks again.

[DODO``]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Scooters/auction-284506556.htm


what do you think about this one here? anything i should be aware about before I buy them?