Test Ride: DR650 vs WR250R vs Super Sherpa

[Rosie]

I’m getting to the stage where I am starting to look around for a replacement for the Sherpa. I want a wee bit more power on the highway, better suspension off road, but nothing so tall or heavy that I lose confidence.
The Yamaha WR250R looked good on paper, so we headed to BikeTorque in Taumarunui for a test ride. For the purposes of comparison we swapped Clint’s 640 for a friend’s slightly lowered DR650, since the DR was also on the list of potential bikes, and I hadn’t taken the DR for a substantial ride before.
I rode the DR to Taumarunui on the highway. Obviously it has a lot more power than the sherpa, but otherwise I really wasn’t feeling the love.

Arriving at Biketorque, we found that the shop didn’t realise that the WR could be lowered, so the seat height was still on the ‘stratospheric’ setting. This meant that I needed a bit of assistance getting onto the bike and operating the sidestand. The WR has a reasonably revvy engine, and getting straight off the DR you notice how smooth and quiet it is.
It has plenty of power, which is a nice change from the Sherpa. You are sitting up a lot higher, and catch more wind, so a screen would probably be a good idea for longer trips. The handling was nice and nippy around corners, I found the DR needed a lot more steering input than the WR or the Sherpa, but that is probably just because it is a larger bike (the DR is the largest bike I have ever been on :o )
The WRs seat isn’t designed for touring, but seats are easily fixed, and a seat reshape would be necessary anyway to assist my efforts in reaching the ground.

We dropped the WR back, had some lunch, and cruised home via SH4 and a bit of gravel through Pureora forest park. I had a quick ride on the sherpa, then swapped back to the DR to see how it went on gravel. The DR has a lot more straight line stability than the sherpa, but was a bit harder to turn in on the corners. The road through Pureora has recently been tidied up, so I didn’t get a chance to test the DRs suspension on potholes or ruts. Emerging from the forest, I tried to get my bike back, but Clint wasn’t interested in giving up the sherpa’s padded touring seat.

In summary, the WR is a very nice bike, and with a few extras (seat reshape, luggage racks, big tank) could be a good adventure touring machine. But, it is pretty expensive, so I’d want to know that it would last quite a few years doing the sorts of distances I’m currently doing on the sherpa (around 17,000 km a year).

I am not enthused about the highway performance of the DR, but I’d like to do a bit more gravel/off road riding on it, to see how it manages.
I have a new found respect for the highway manners of my wee sherpa, if only it had the power and suspension I desire.

Where to from here? I probably should try a bit of off road riding on the DR, and do a bit more homework on the WR, to see how they get on doing reasonably high k’s. And start saving :(

[Crisis management]

Drz400..........

[Monstaman]

Drz400..........

Yes, Katharina from Globus Bikers had her one at the Fuckengruven Rally Rosie and had lowered it and the suspension had sagged which helped, she loves that bike.

In time to come when Ellens want more grunt we will look down that path too, probably swap out forks etc for more adventure as opposed to long travel trailie.

Ellen is sitting her licence as I type this out so she is into it.

How about sleeving the Sherpa out to 300 -400cc, has this even been done?

[clint640]

The DRZ feels a lot more top heavy than the WR, a lot more buzzy on the road too. Being able to lower the WR with only a spanner is also a big plus.



How about sleeving the Sherpa out to 300 -400cc, has this even been done?

We did hear a rumour that someone had done a big bore on one, but haven't had any further details. Reliability would be a big question with something like that & the kms that we do. Since a suspension & brake upgrade are also required it really makes more sense to look at a new bike.

Cheers
Clint

[Taz]

I loved the WR250R when I rode it. Top speed of 140k not too bad either. Small tank though (safari do a 14 litre)

[Monstaman]

Yes that would make more sense, putting 400 cc grunt through the smaller box and chain etc cold have bad consequences at the most inappropriate place too.

Pity they don't make a smaller adventure bike with a bigger donk, I think that would be quite a hit for a lot of people who are longitudinally challenged.

DR650's can be lowered 40 mm per end easily, I am also about to have a crack at my seat and reshape it after doing Ellens one, gonna put a softer top layer back in while we are at it.

[junkmanjoe]

if you got a few moments rosie have a read about this ladys travels on here DRZ
her bikes set up for business, and she has covered some big ground.
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12249773#post12249773

just a thought but maybe lay your friends dr650 down on the lawn and try to pick it up by your self..you may not always be with some one when you travel.
i had to get help to pick my 950 up, when it fell over at the gas station fully loaded with gear and gas....supper heavy..

just something to take in to consideration.

JMJ

[Rosie]

DR650's can be lowered 40 mm per end easily, I am also about to have a crack at my seat and reshape it after doing Ellens one, gonna put a softer top layer back in while we are at it.

Paul's DR was plenty low enough, I just didn't like riding it. I suspect that it would be a handful off road too, but I need to take it for a ride some time and find out.

[Crazy Steve]

I would go the Wr250, but at $4k more than the same aged/used DR650 it would be hard to swolllow ! !

Crazy Steve.

[Monstaman]

I suspect that it would be a handful off road too.

Yes they are the lightist of the heavies really, Ellen will have the same problem too, specially with panniers etc, she just called and she has her licence.

[mazz1972]

Pity they don't make a smaller adventure bike with a bigger donk, I think that would be quite a hit for a lot of people who are longitudinally challenged.


Hell yeah! I looked and looked and sat and teetered....and eventually gave up on an adv bike for the meantime.

I have ridden hubs DRZ400 offroad, but not onroad and at stock height it is pretty tall for this shortarse....and I did fall off a few times (much to his utter disgust!!). He used it onroad for a while and if course it needed the sprockets changed or it's revving very high at highway speed. Have ridden a DR650 (onroad only), didn't mind it but didn't love it, and that darn seat is as bad as the DRZ. I was looking for a DR650 for AGES (in black, slightly second hand) but none came up for many months. Now I've got a bike with a super comfy seat I dunno if I wanna go back...

Rosie - good luck figuring out what to get next.

[clint640]

I have ridden hubs DRZ400 offroad, but not onroad and at stock height it is pretty tall for this shortarse....and I did fall off a few times (much to his utter disgust!!). He used it onroad for a while and if course it needed the sprockets changed or it's revving very high at highway speed. .

That's another area where the WR really shines over the DRZ, like the Sherpa it has a really wide range 6 spd gearbox.

Cheers
Clint

PS congrats to Ellen on getting the license!

[Box'a'bits]

Andy Mac has a WR250R & really likes it. Might be worth having a chat. He has put the Safari Tank on. I've riden it & it is impressive both from power output, flickability, and the way the suspension works. As you say the seat can be worked on. Haven't heard if Andy was looking to go to the KKAR

[bart]

I found the DRZ too finicky. Too buzzy on the road, and you can never get the gearing right for all conditions. I'd buy another one in a flash for a dirt bike. 17000km a year might be pushing it too.

The DR650 is much more stable. Easier for long distance. No more grunt, but heaps more torque. Heaps of extras available. Takes a bit more manhandling in the tight stuff, but seems ideal for 95% of the riding I do. They do look very.....ummm.....uninspiring though. You can see they were developed in the '90s. :shutup:

What gearing did the DR have. Drop a tooth in the front and it livens it up heaps.

WR looks the part.

[pipe]

I have just gone from a 02 DRZ400 to a 09 WR250R with the 6sp box and low COG it is a more user friendly bike then the DRZ . Try some of these links for some good info on the WR.
http://wr250rforum.forumotion.com/main-c1/
http://www.wrrdualsport.com/
http://rickramsey.net/WR250R.htm

[Padmei]

KLE? Not sure what they're like offroad but shorter riders seem to like them.

XT660R? Might be between the DR & WR? I had a ride on a mates one that he had lghtened by 20kgs & it felt to me like a dirt bike. The FI was terrible at lower speeds but nimble handling & lots of grunt.

[dino3310]

heres on for ya mate, http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Kawasaki_KLX_300_R_2003.aspx

[pete376403]

Is this official confirmation that DR650s are really girls bikes? (flame suit on)

[Box'a'bits]

Is this official confirmation that DR650s are really girls bikes? (flame suit on)
Ehmmm. Rosie already rides a Kawasaki, and she finds the DR too big...Did you actually read her write up:blink:

Don't know where Dino was going with his suggestion. Too many beers tonight??

[dino3310]

Ehmmm. Rosie already rides a Kawasaki, and she finds the DR too big...Did you actually read her write up:blink:

Don't know where Dino was going with his suggestion. Too many beers tonight??

like the WR but i reckon better, plus staying with the quacka theme.. maybe chuck a 300 motor in the sherpa, just a thought.
padmei's suggestion of the KLE500 a good one, great donkey in it.

[pete376403]

Ehmmm. Rosie already rides a Kawasaki, and she finds the DR too big...Did you actually read her write up:blink:
Sorry I omitted the smileys, I thought it would have been obvious it was a minor DR windup. Yes I did read the writeup.

[Motu]

I'd go the WR,short arse Merv has his lowered...get him to tell you the seat height and how he did it.(shorter shock).Pity the DT230's are getting a bit old now,but I still reckon they would be perfect for Rosie now she has plenty of experience.A lot of grunt for a small bike,and they can keep up with those KTM640's no problem.

[Woodman]

Isn't there a gasgas 450 pampera . ?

[Shewolf]

Great report Rosie, have been keen to look at these models - how low can the WR and DR go do you know? ie up to 1" or 2"?

[Rosie]

Andy Mac has a WR250R & really likes it. Might be worth having a chat. He has put the Safari Tank on. I've riden it & it is impressive both from power output, flickability, and the way the suspension works. As you say the seat can be worked on. Haven't heard if Andy was looking to go to the KKAR

I had a sit on Andy's WR at the post CCA ride, and had a brief chat about it. That's what made me decide that I needed to test ride one.


I found the DRZ too finicky. Too buzzy on the road, and you can never get the gearing right for all conditions. I'd buy another one in a flash for a dirt bike. 17000km a year might be pushing it too.

The DR650 is much more stable. Easier for long distance. No more grunt, but heaps more torque. Heaps of extras available. Takes a bit more manhandling in the tight stuff, but seems ideal for 95% of the riding I do. They do look very.....ummm.....uninspiring though. You can see they were developed in the '90s. :shutup:

What gearing did the DR have. Drop a tooth in the front and it livens it up heaps.

WR looks the part.

I have no idea what gearing the DR had. It had heaps of grunt, but it was noisy and vibrate-y and didn't seem keen to go around corners. And it was a bit of a stretch to reach the bars. Meanwhile, the WR felt like the sherpa on nitrous :D


KLE? Not sure what they're like offroad but shorter riders seem to like them.

XT660R? Might be between the DR & WR? I had a ride on a mates one that he had lghtened by 20kgs & it felt to me like a dirt bike. The FI was terrible at lower speeds but nimble handling & lots of grunt.

Improved off road performance/confidence is just as important as having more power on road. I want a 21" front, which rules out the KLE (and the rather attractive BMW X-Country). The XT660 had never entered my radar screen. I've heard that they are a bit porky, but I'll do some more research and see what I can find out. Do you know what the 20kg of lightening on your mates bike entailed?

[clint640]

KLE? Not sure what they're like offroad but shorter riders seem to like them.

XT660R? Might be between the DR & WR? I had a ride on a mates one that he had lghtened by 20kgs & it felt to me like a dirt bike. The FI was terrible at lower speeds but nimble handling & lots of grunt.

At 180kg plus the KLE & the XT660R both not only fail Rosie's 'not too heavy' test, they get kicked the hell out of the room without even being given the exam papers :shutup:


I'd go the WR,short arse Merv has his lowered...get him to tell you the seat height and how he did it.(shorter shock).Pity the DT230's are getting a bit old now,but I still reckon they would be perfect for Rosie now she has plenty of experience.A lot of grunt for a small bike,and they can keep up with those KTM640's no problem.

The WR-R is entirely different from Merv's WR-F & is shorter to start with & easily lowerable. DT230's are cool indeed, but a bit buzzy on the road, & maintenance could become an issue doing an average of 17000 km/yr


Isn't there a gasgas 450 pampera . ?

Yep, lots taller than the old 2 smoke Pampera though, 920mm may be low for some but when you're coming from an 830mm high seat it's pretty tall. The fairly short suspension travel of the Pampera may make getting it much lower difficult & again, the reliability doing big km's would be a question. Although I see a couple of new 07/08's on tardme at around $8K, they'd be damn good value at that & there is a 14L Safari tank available for them... We may have to go & take one for a burn in the interests of science but I think the high seat would be a deal breaker.

Cheers
Clint

[Rosie]

Great report Rosie, have been keen to look at these models - how low can the WR and DR go do you know? ie up to 1" or 2"?

The WR can be lowered around 1" by adjusting the rear suspension, and I think there would be another one or two inches in a seat reshape.
The DR has been lowered quite a lot, by putting the rear shock on its lower setting, dropping the forks, and hacking out the seat. It felt about the same height as the sherpa (around 830mm), but the DR may be a bit wider, I'm not sure.

[Bass]

I have no idea what gearing the DR had. It had heaps of grunt, but it was noisy and vibrate-y and didn't seem keen to go around corners. And it was a bit of a stretch to reach the bars. Meanwhile, the WR felt like the sherpa on nitrous :D




That's an interesting comment.
When I got mine, the first ride I did was out through the Hunua Gorge heading for a bit of gravel. In the corners, I was getting the feeling that " never mind the foot pegs, if I try,
I might be able to scrape my elbows on this thing". It was only afterwards that I discovered that I only had 15 psi front and rear.
So i can't help but wonder if lowering the beast has altered the geometry in some detrimental way.
We did find out that they are quite sensitive to setup - to a degree that I can't explain by looking at the numbers.

Having said all that, I suspect that the Yammie's weight advantage will be a big factor for you and it is nearly 30 years more advanced.

[dino3310]

what about a baby DR, might still be a bit high though http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dirt-bikes/auction-238800844.htm

[clint640]

A DR350 was actually on the radar as an option before we got the Sherpa, it'd need some lowering obviously, but we've never seen one that is both road legal & electric start.

Cheers
Clint

[dino3310]

seen road legal but not the lecky leg, shame there an awesome bike. funny how all the modern bikes get taller and taller, the old 500s use to be real shorties.
a works mates wife had simular problems she was only 5'3 she ended up settling for the yammy225.

sounds like the WR is pushing all the right buttons though, i just looked at some online - they right up there for $$$$

[cooneyr]

A DR350 was actually on the radar as an option before we got the Sherpa, it'd need some lowering obviously, but we've never seen one that is both road legal & electric start.

Cheers
Clint

As I understand it the DR350 is the kick start off road model that can be road reg and the DR350S (pre 96) and DR350SE (post 96) is the elec start on road model. The non S apparently has better suspenders and the S apparently is slightly lower.

Cheers R

[clint640]

As I understand it the DR350 is the kick start off road model that can be road reg and the DR350S (pre 96) and DR350SE (post 96) is the elec start on road model. The non S apparently has better suspenders and the S apparently is slightly lower.

Cheers R

Yep, they are are out there apparently, but whoever's got em ain't selling.

Clint

[mazz1972]

KLE? Not sure what they're like offroad but shorter riders seem to like them.

KLE500? Not a good choice for us short legged hobbits. I had one and I grew to hate it. It would be awful offroad - the most offroad I got with it was Rainbow. Dropped the front shocks as much as possible and it was still too tall. We had to shorten the stand so I could get on/off which made it lean over a bit far and I had to be very careful where I parked it. Awful weight balance and it was very top heavy, I couldnt pick it up, it was so top heavy it took both me & hubby to pick it up the one time I tipped off.


XT660R? Might be between the DR & WR? I had a ride on a mates one that he had lghtened by 20kgs & it felt to me like a dirt bike. The FI was terrible at lower speeds but nimble handling & lots of grunt.

Would be my pick, and I would have one now if there'd been one around I could afford when I was looking, there were very few for sale at the time and lots of $$. Hub had the X model and lowered the front forks a little so I could ride it. Very nicely balanced weightwise - I'm 5ft4 I managed it pretty well. I loved riding the XT, except at lower round town speeds it surges and my hand always got real tired having to constantly work the clutch and accelerator round town, they just don't like going slow and great handling otherwise. I reckon you'd want to spend the money on the mods to try to rectify the surging or it would be a a friggin pain offroad at times.
R model 172kg, 865mm seat height before lowering. But too heavy?

WR250 - standard seat height is 930mm?? so that's an awful lot of height to lose for Rosie if she already lowered the Sherpa which is 810mm standard...but has better ground clearance than Sherp so shouldn't cause issues?

[mazz1972]

[QUOTE=clint640;1129715779]That's another area where the WR really shines over the DRZ, like the Sherpa it has a really wide range 6 spd gearbox. [QUOTE]

I changed the sprocket on my Sherpa to get more top end speed....didn't work tho haha.

[clint640]

I consider anything much over 150kg as too heavy for ME to take the places we like to go, so even the DR650 is right at the limit of what would be sensible for a smaller & less experienced rider, let alone something over 50kg heavier than the Sherp. The other issue with a few of the bigger cc bikes like the XT is the width, they may have a low seat height but being wider through the guts means that a slim WR250R lowered say 60mm will be easier to get a foot down on than an XT660 that is actually a bit lower in the seat.

...& while Rosie can buy whatever she wants, an alleged 'adventure' bike with the exhaust pipes slung under the motor would not be allowed in my shed... ;-)

Funny you had a go at gearing UP the Sherpa, Rosie went up a few teeth on the back at the last chain & sprocket change as 6th was such an overdrive. The new, slightly lower gearing works really well on & off road.

Cheers
Clint

[Padmei]

I don't think there are any bikes left then are there? Sounds like the WR with a bit of work may be the business.

[JATZ]

Road legal DR250 ?
The boys one has excellent suspension (compared to the Big, mind you so does the Arahura :D ) And I understand they are easy to change to a 350. IIRC bolt on a 350 top end

[Phreaky Phil]

Yep, they are are out there apparently, but whoever's got em ain't selling.

ClintThere were 1000s of DR350x's in NZ but not many Dr350SE"s (electric start). The SE was much heavier and had less suspension. I have one of the last DR350x's, a 2000 model. Currently being adventurised. Big tank, trick suspension etc. They made some changes with the kickstarts on the later ones and the are ridiculously easy to start. With a 6 speed box they humm along on the road ok. They are cheap to buy and there's lots of bits around.

[merv]

Yep, they are are out there apparently, but whoever's got em ain't selling.

Clint

Well you missed it, I sold my dear departed brother's DR350SE to Pampera on this site and he rode it on the CCA 2010, photo here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=201093&d=1269077276 and Ad was here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/95765-December-1995-Suzuki-DR350SE?p=1999762#post1999762 - seat height was around 900mm so it wasn't a short bike - the DR650SE is lower and can be lowered a further 40mm with the inbuilt adjustment

[merv]

I'd go the WR,short arse Merv has his lowered...get him to tell you the seat height and how he did it.(shorter shock).Pity the DT230's are getting a bit old now,but I still reckon they would be perfect for Rosie now she has plenty of experience.A lot of grunt for a small bike,and they can keep up with those KTM640's no problem.

Motu, mine is the WR250F, which is basically the race engined enduro bike and not suitable for long highway kms at all - 5 speed gearbox is a minus on the road too, and though it revs to 13,500 and is fast I wouldn't ride it from Wellington to Auckland. I use my XR250L for the longer rides or borrow Mrs' DR650SE. The XR250L is a good bike but quite heavy (128kg dry) and in many ways very similar to the DR350SE. If they'd made the WR250R in 2004 I probably would have bought one of them, but they too are heavy for a 250.

The WR250F comes into its own on rides like the CCA, it makes me laugh in my helmet it is so light and easy to ride, and at the end you feel like going around again, but I can't imagine ever doing a Dusty Butt on it.

[Taz]

Craig Baileys ad in kiwi rider says they have a road reg 1997 KLX300...... Most probably kickstart only though.

[Squiggles]

Well you missed it, I sold my dear departed brother's DR350SE to Pampera on this site and he rode it on the CCA 2010, photo here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=201093&d=1269077276 and Ad was here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/95765-December-1995-Suzuki-DR350SE?p=1999762#post1999762 - seat height was around 900mm so it wasn't a short bike - the DR650SE is lower and can be lowered a further 40mm with the inbuilt adjustment

If only, I was looking for one late last year, the lecky starters are rare :(

[andy mac]

I,ve owned my WRR for 6 months & 7,000 km and love riding it. It can do the road miles (Wgtn - Taumaranui & Rainbow/Clarence River) and is very easy to ride off road.

It is heavy for a 250 (135kg) but has a low centre of gravity. The only time you notice the weight is lifting the back end out of ruts, because you will try to get thru them on this bike.

The engine is high tech with fuel injection, fuel pump & associated sensors, electric start only. There is a 30,000km bike in Nelson which is troublefree. The engine doesn't have much torque but revs like a sewing machine. The necessity to change gears makes you feel like you are going fast all the time also the speedo reads high. I've lowered the gearing so it pulls up steep hills (Cnut) & it cruises at 95km true.

The suspension is great too. This bike has changed my focus to more technical trail riding.
The seat is OK up to 200km, i use a sheepskin for longer rides.
Stock tank range is 200km (fingers crossed). I put on a 13.5L Safari tank which goes 350km - sore bum range.

Best wishes, Andy

[clint640]

It is heavy for a 250 (135kg) but has a low centre of gravity. The only time you notice the weight is lifting the back end out of ruts, because you will try to get thru them on this bike.



Yep, that struck me during my brief ride, it definitely carries it's weight lower than a DRZ or KLX 250. That combined with the extra grunt & the easy lowerability sure give it an edge over the Suzy & Kwaka. I don't think 135kg is too out of the ordinary for a road legal 250.

Cheers
Clint

[mazz1972]

Funny you had a go at gearing UP the Sherpa, Rosie went up a few teeth on the back at the last chain & sprocket change as 6th was such an overdrive. The new, slightly lower gearing works really well on & off road.


Sprocket I think we went up one tooth (?) and it was more annoying than anything as at 100-110kms-ish I seemed to be changing between 5th & 6th alot.


I consider anything much over 150kg as too heavy for ME to take the places we like to go, so even the DR650 is right at the limit of what would be sensible for a smaller & less experienced rider, let alone something over 50kg heavier than the Sherp. The other issue with a few of the bigger cc bikes like the XT is the width, they may have a low seat height but being wider through the guts means that a slim WR250R lowered say 60mm will be easier to get a foot down on than an XT660 that is actually a bit lower in the seat.


Yes, same issues for me. Weight and width are such an issue for us blessed with short wheelbases, and it means there are very few options. Possibly lack of experience on riding different (bigger) bikes doesn't help confidence wise either, especially after the featherweight of the Sherp. When upgrading from my Sherp the thought of going to a much bigger bike, in "bulk" as well as weight and cc, was quite intimidating.



...& while Rosie can buy whatever she wants, an alleged 'adventure' bike with the exhaust pipes slung under the motor would not be allowed in my shed... ;-)

Touratec bashplate :D

Hope the WR works out for Rosie :)

[Bass]

My memory is crap these days but I seem to recall that Lula test rode a WR 250 on one of our west coast gravel bashes down to Raglan. I certainly recall her riding the verges at speed while the rest of us stuck to the road.
She is a similar height to Rosie ( I think that she could only get one foot at a time on the ground) and so I wonder if it might not be worthwhile seeking her impressions of the machine

[Box'a'bits]

Found a 'Must have' farkle for the WR250X on Thumper Talk. :laugh::laugh: http://www.mpfab.com/wr250/