Health Freedom New Zealand

[mashman]

Passed to me by a colleague. My colleagues sister lives in Oz. She has always bought a certain product to help with cold and flu symptoms. She can't buy it any more because the homeopathic remedy is now ILLEGAL... They're now trying to do the same in NZ...


"Health Freedom NZ Newsletter Action Alert

Hi

Time Sensitive Information – Deadline for Action 17th May 2010. Please pass this on, we’d like this email to go viral.

Standby – This is a both a news and urgent action alert for those of you interested in continued access to natural products and dietary supplements.

--- Your submissions are requested ---

Most of you have undoubtedly heard that a consultation document to regulate natural products was recently released on the Ministry of Health Website in response to the Natural Products industry and consumer call for a stand alone New Zealand regulatory model for Natural Products, rather than an Australian takeover of our current regulatory body, Medsafe.

We were expecting the discussion document to be based upon the proposed Natural and Traditional Health Products Bill that was prepared in full consultation with Maoridom, Consumers, the NZ Health Trust, and the Natural Health Products Industry over a two year period.

Unfortunately the MoH Consultation Document is diametrically opposed to most of the principals outlined in the proposed Bill and has aptly been labeled the 'TGA in drag'. It is nothing short of a bureaucratic hood wink.

The bureaucrats appear to have re-instated all of the unacceptable aspects of the TGA and Trans Tasman models that Health Freedom were successful in rejecting, including:

1. The White List (Napoleonic Law - every natural ingredient to become illegal without a permit).
2. The power to make up the rules as they go along.
3. Anything in therapeutic dose be classed as a medicine and therefore regulated as a drug.
4. Excessive compliance costs that would put most small businesses under, push up the price of natural products, and see the loss of thousands of jobs and products in the industry.
5. Over the top fines that don’t make sense unless you want to send numerous small businesses to the wall.
6. Extremely limited claims. The ability to say “may support” will go, replaced by a few extremely low level claims acceptable to the drug industry this proposal seeks to protect.

Here are the details of the document and submission schedule.
http://www.moh.govt.nz/moh.nsf/indexmh/consult-development-natural-health-products-bill-mar10

The MoH is inviting submissions with a short deadline which is 17th May 2010. You may wish to write to them for an extension. Since the full time employed bureaucrats had 18 months to deliberate and come up with this document, it is only fair we the public get at least 90 days.

We are currently liaising with other organisations to formulate a comprehensive strategy and will have a document of the main points of objection to the document that you can use as a reference as soon as we can.

In the mean time if you want continued access to affordable vitamins, minerals and other natural products we suggest that you:

1. Read the discussion document yourself, highlighting the points you object to with a highlighter pen.
2. Spread the word – Print this email and give it to your local health food store, natural health practitioner, family and friends.
3. Begin to plan your submission (again we’ll have our main arguments to you in next few days).
4. Don’t get hood winked and razzle dazzled by the propaganda that is currently being spread by the media, bureaucrats, bogus science, some members of the medical fraternity and the skeptic activist, Vicky Hide.

We are going to need more than 5,000 submissions made against this document in order to be effective, so everyone who wants continued access to natural products needs to act.

We believe this might well be the last opportunity we have to send a very loud and clear message that the consumers, the bureaucrats pretend they desire to protect, do not need the kind of protection the bureaucrats are offering – protection of pharmaceutical profits over our health."

[Dave Lobster]

Maybe because too many of the stupid people take crushed up goats dung and expect it to make them well again.
Please don't say these people don't exist. They do.. otherwise that Hone character wouldn't be harping on about how smoking affects one particular race. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0)
Stamping on ALL of the alleged medicinal properties of various rocks, minerals, elephant tusks etc. may be bit extreme. But you can't legislate against 'stupid'.

[rainman]

I am in two minds about this.

Homeopathy flatly is a crock, by any definition (and I have a very open mind). But if people want to buy the product, and it's harmless, why not? (To head off the most likely objection, you can't force people to take good care of themselves).

Some (many) other "alternative" treatments are actually quite good, for a range of complaints. I would not try to cure cancer or a broken leg by using something from the garden (although turmeric is apparently quite prospective when it come to cancer, and aloe vera is good for skin cancers, but whatever...), but sore throats, headaches, colds, fevers, constipation, etc are all within the scope of a basic herb garden. Worked for thousands of years, and our physiology is the same, no reason why this can't carry on. Are herbal treatments more difficult than pre-built pharma? Sure. Also often not as effective and you do have to deal with dose variability, but it is within the grasp of the average gardener. Food as medicine, not a new concept.

This, big pharma does not like, so they are fighting against alternative meds with all they have. Our new nanny state government will probably happily play along, being a bit business friendly and all. And it's not a fair fight, so I feel I should oppose them, being an idealistic crusader for peace and justice, and all that.

It's kinda like GM. The science is interesting, but the politics is toxic (and the pratitioners a little too unfamiliar with the precautionary principle), so I oppose them.

Some of the other alt med treatments are also OK - I'm thinking some acupuncture, for example. Not so sure about chiropractic, but many people seem to like it, so, once again, where's the harm?

Overall, I suppose I'm on the side of Health Freedom, even though some of their ideas are a bit kooky.

[mashman]

Stamping on ALL of the alleged medicinal properties of various rocks, minerals, elephant tusks etc. may be bit extreme. But you can't legislate against 'stupid'.

But that's exactly what they're trying to do, whilst making "certain" elements illegal to have or own. Where does it stop... like you say you can't legislate against stupidity... the government begs to differ with you Dave.

[SPman]

You can't say nanny state any more - that was a pejorative reserved for Helen & co. So it's now "daddy state"......

[Jantar]

....She can't buy it any more because the homeopathic remedy is now ILLEGAL... ......
How can it be illegal to sell water? After all that is what homeopathic rememdies are. Or is it that they are trying to make it illegal to sell water while calling it something else?

[avgas]

Stamping on ALL of the alleged medicinal properties of various rocks, minerals, elephant tusks etc. may be bit extreme. But you can't legislate against 'stupid'.
To be honest that is exactly what needs to happen. People need to be informed about what they are taking. In all industries.
How come you can't buy food in the supermarket without knowing whats in it, and I can rock up to site without as MSDS.......but your doctor can tell you to take drug A, or homepathic remedy G - and there are very little information telling me what it is.
Could be deadly nightshade in a bottle, and if I take 500mg to much I die......but the bottle will just stated "Do no exceed dossage"

[avgas]

How can it be illegal to sell water? After all that is what homeopathic rememdies are. Or is it that they are trying to make it illegal to sell water while calling it something else?
For the same reason why it is profitable to sell it.

[avgas]

You can't say nanny state any more - that was a pejorative reserved for Helen & co. So it's now "daddy state"......
More like "Uncle Bully" state, except in this one we can't hang ourselves and the violence keeps coming.

[mashman]

How can it be illegal to sell water? After all that is what homeopathic rememdies are. Or is it that they are trying to make it illegal to sell water while calling it something else?

You can't sell water if you are unlicensed to sell it. A sign of things to come maybe.

[Dave Lobster]

Could be deadly nightshade in a bottle, and if I take 500mg to much I die......but the bottle will just stated "Do no exceed dossage"

Could be.. but it's more likely to be diluted water.

See the link in my previous post..

[mashman]

Could be.. but it's more likely to be diluted water.

See the link in my previous post..

So why outlaw it?

[rainman]

How can it be illegal to sell water? After all that is what homeopathic rememdies are.

But it's clever water. It remembers the properties of the substances it's been in contact with. Only the good ones, of course... :)


To be honest that is exactly what needs to happen. People need to be informed about what they are taking. In all industries.
How come you can't buy food in the supermarket without knowing whats in it, and I can rock up to site without as MSDS.......but your doctor can tell you to take drug A, or homepathic remedy G - and there are very little information telling me what it is.
Could be deadly nightshade in a bottle, and if I take 500mg to much I die......but the bottle will just stated "Do no exceed dossage"

You mean like some statins, that are toxic in combination with some normal foodstuffs? Almost everything has a toxic level and a safe level.

BTW, I'd love to know exactly what was in my supermarket food, and better yet where it comes from. But apparently the free market can't handle that level of freedom.

[Dave Lobster]

So why outlaw it?

It's nothing to do with me.. :blink:

[nodrog]

will we still be able to buy motorcycles and related products?

[bogan]

I'm having trouble with the wording, does it mean they will ban pretty much everything a naturopath sells? ie, concentrated vitamins extracted from fruit, dietary supplements, bacteria supplements, etc?

[mashman]

I'm having trouble with the wording, does it mean they will ban pretty much everything a naturopath sells? ie, concentrated vitamins extracted from fruit, dietary supplements, bacteria supplements, etc?

I'm assuming that's the subtext or propoganda... readers choice.

[bogan]

I'm assuming that's the subtext or propoganda... readers choice.

Well that sux, a naturopath saved me months of pain (agony at times), and many a sniffle since. Let me know where to sign, or where to submit, or whatever.

[mashman]

Well that sux, a naturopath saved me months of pain (agony at times), and many a sniffle since. Let me know where to sign, or where to submit, or whatever.

There's no petition as yet... looks like submissions only at this point... and as you know, some think it a total crock... I can't believe it's a total crock for 1 reason... You sting yourself with nettles and the "cure" grows right next to it... there's something to be said for Homeopathy... and just the same as any other drug on this planet, there will be those who don't care about the science as long as there's a buck in it... All the best bogan.

http://www.moh.govt.nz/moh.nsf/index...cts-bill-mar10

[bogan]

There's no petition as yet... looks like submissions only at this point... and as you know, some think it a total crock... I can't believe it's a total crock for 1 reason... You sting yourself with nettles and the "cure" grows right next to it... there's something to be said for Homeopathy... and just the same as any other drug on this planet, there will be those who don't care about the science as long as there's a buck in it... All the best bogan.


exactly, draws some parallels to the intelligent design vs evolution debate too you could say ;)

[mashman]

exactly, draws some parallels to the intelligent design vs evolution debate too you could say ;)

Very true... or Labour v's National :innocent: (if that's how you want to equate it)

[avgas]

Diluted water is good for you.
It also can cure the common cold - I have got this to work on myself.
Therefore it is just as dangerous as Pseudoephedrine
BAN IT ALL!

[oldrider]

You can't say nanny state any more - that was a pejorative reserved for Helen & co. So it's now "daddy state"......

There is no "significant" difference between the last lot and this lot, so call it what you like!

Nanny Daddy, Smith Smythe, shit or shite, the final outcome is the same!

Meanwhile back to the OP's thread topic, we should be able to buy whatever health remedy we want!

Medical doctors and hospitals kill more people than our roads but they only receive a fraction of the critical attention!

Big Phama is just trying to assert their right to control "everything" medical! :mellow:

[davereid]

There is no "significant" difference between the last lot and this lot, so call it what you like!
Same shit,spread by the same tractor. Driver might be different, but he's faithfully following the map.

This is just more crap from government. If the claim about the product is false, they already have zillions of laws to prosecute the seller. If the claim is vague ie this "may help" then if it works for you, go for it.

[scissorhands]

There is no "significant" difference between the last lot and this lot, so call it what you like!

Nanny Daddy, Smith Smythe, shit or shite, the final outcome is the same!

Meanwhile back to the OP's thread topic, we should be able to buy whatever health remedy we want!

Medical doctors and hospitals kill more people than our roads but they only receive a fraction of the critical attention!

Big Phama is just trying to assert their right to control "everything" medical! :mellow:

What he says

Medical misadventure is a strange word indeed, 3rd leading cause of death in NZ??

When my passed mother went into hospital she was on so many meds she couldnt keep food down. One drug after another drug to deal with side effects.

No dietry recommendations whatsoever. Really sticks in your throat when you mother has been let down to such an extent, by the heroes of science she worshipped through the media.

And of course the stoner son trying to help with the dietry and herbal ideas is such a joke!

Dont get me started on caesars ugly mob, naive and sheep like.

Maybe we all get what we deserve in the end

[Mudfart]

More like "Uncle Bully" state, except in this one we can't hang ourselves and the violence keeps coming.

ahahahaha classic. points for that one, uncle fuckin bully.
yep i'd like to hang everyone that voted for the natzi party. seeing as the violence IS getting worse.
see judith collins tonight?, id like to comment, but meh, whats the fuckin point. yes , yes you are retards.

[Mudfart]

What he says

Medical misadventure is a strange word indeed, 3rd leading cause of death in NZ??

When my passed mother went into hospital she was on so many meds she couldnt keep food down. One drug after another drug to deal with side effects.

No dietry recommendations whatsoever. Really sticks in your throat when you mother has been let down to such an extent, by the heroes of science she worshipped through the media.

And of course the stoner son trying to help with the dietry and herbal ideas is such a joke!

Dont get me started on caesars ugly mob, naive and sheep like.

Maybe we all get what we deserve in the end

yep, same with my mother, she worked right up til death from many cancers, for the betterment of mankind, so it could advance itself scientifically, so people can live longer fuller lives.
she insisted on walking into the hospice, they pumped her full of morphine, so she wouldn't resist the reaper any longer, and in 48hrs, she was dead. I dont beleive the medical community gives two flying fucks on any conditions you may have. they just want your money.
I know this from when they shoved a camera up my arse. it cost me $40k to be told i have irritable bowel syndrome, and then FINALLY put me on losec, which stopped all the severe reflux. IBS, which you WILL be told is caused by excessive stress in your life, is diagnosed to those people whom doctors cant be fucked figuring out what you really have.

[bogan]

I know this from when they shoved a camera up my arse. it cost me $40k to be told i have irritable bowel syndrome, and then FINALLY put me on losec, which stopped all the severe reflux. IBS, which you WILL be told is caused by excessive stress in your life, is diagnosed to those people whom doctors cant be fucked figuring out what you really have.

thats exactly what I avoided by going to the naturopath, with the waiting lists (i didnt have 40k) it would have caused irreversible damage (IBS), naturopath sorted me with strict diet and bacteria supplements and felt better within days. They want to take that option away from people, FUCK THAT.

[davereid]

They want to take that option away from people, FUCK THAT.

Yep, well get typing. My submission is already sent, deluge the bastards with thoughtful, careful but firm "FUCK THATS".

[bogan]

Yep, well get typing. My submission is already sent, deluge the bastards with thoughtful, careful but firm "FUCK THATS".

yeh, at the moment mine would be more sweary than thoughtful, so I'll give it a bit of time before I submit. If you have come up with any good points I may not think of, post em up and I'll add them to mine as well.

[Pixie]

I'll sell her some expensive water.Get her to PM me.

[Indoo]

The MOH document looks very mild, well thought out and reasonable. Sent off a submission in full support.

I can see why the naturopaths etc are so opposed to it though, god forbid they be forced to actually substantiate or have even a smidgen of evidence to back up claims they make that directly and seriously impact upon peoples Health.

I would say this part is what they fear the most..

"The applicant would be required to confirm that they were holding the appropriate evidence to support each of the selected claims"

Looks like seperating money from fools is going to become a little bit harder.

[oldrider]

The MOH document looks very mild, well thought out and reasonable. Sent off a submission in full support.

I can see why the naturopaths etc are so opposed to it though, god forbid they be forced to actually substantiate or have even a smidgen of evidence to back up claims they make that directly and seriously impact upon peoples Health.

I would say this part is what they fear the most..

"The applicant would be required to confirm that they were holding the appropriate evidence to support each of the selected claims"

Looks like seperating money from fools is going to become a little bit harder.

The same can be said for the drug company driven medical profession and is quite obvious to those who have not been brainwashed by them!

Thank goodness my own medical practitioner is interested in "whole" health :shifty: and can identify the wood from the trees! :yes:

[Ixion]

Submission lodged.

Resolutely opposed


I am surprised and disappointed that the Greens would lend their name to such a thing.

[rainman]

and as you know, some think it a total crock... I can't believe it's a total crock for 1 reason... You sting yourself with nettles and the "cure" grows right next to it...

If that was related to my earlier comment, don't misunderstand. I will be submitting against this change, and don't for a minute believe conventional medicine has all the answers.


there's something to be said for Homeopathy...

Yeah, lots of things, none of them complimentary. Homoeopathy is inconsistent even with itself. 30C dilutions have no active ingredient left, and the claim of "water memory" makes no sense. How come it only remembers the good stuff? The only way it works is the placebo effect.

Not a reason to ban it, of course.


If the claim about the product is false, they already have zillions of laws to prosecute the seller. If the claim is vague ie this "may help" then if it works for you, go for it.

Indeed, people should have the right to choose their own medication regimes, even if these don't work, or more like it, if others think they won't. And crooks and charlatans should be prosecuted (although there are a fair few of those in a number of industries, we may be busy for a while).


I know this from when they shoved a camera up my arse. it cost me $40k to be told i have irritable bowel syndrome, and then FINALLY put me on losec, which stopped all the severe reflux. IBS, which you WILL be told is caused by excessive stress in your life, is diagnosed to those people whom doctors cant be fucked figuring out what you really have.

Losec is an easy prescription, as are statins and a few other things popular with GPs (do they get commissions from moving these?). Next time you're in a group of middle-aged people, ask how many are on Losec (now Opemprazole), Lipex, etc. You may be surprised to find most of them are.

And BTW, having been on Losec long-term (ulcers) and weaned myself off of it completely, it is possible to fix some things without band-aid medicines. Diet, exercise, and mental attitude are a huge part of being a happy healthy human.


I am surprised and disappointed that the Greens would lend their name to such a thing.

I had not noticed that. Me too.

[mashman]

If that was related to my earlier comment, don't misunderstand. I will be submitting against this change, and don't for a minute believe conventional medicine has all the answers.

Dunno... sorry I can't be arsed going back to check either. I wouldn't have been having a swing... over what :). I wouldn't believe that for a minute... if only because we all have different physiologies... but no, nothing to see here :)

[davereid]

Yeah, lots of things, none of them complimentary. Homoeopathy is inconsistent even with itself. 30C dilutions have no active ingredient left, and the claim of "water memory" makes no sense. How come it only remembers the good stuff? The only way it works is the placebo effect. Not a reason to ban it, of course.

I have a customer who pedals these products. There is a generous sized sign on the wall that proclaims "many of these products are unproven by science, but large number of people report success.." or word to that effect.

But I think his clients get good value. They go to the Doctor, get an 8 minute appointment which includes 3 minutes to pay the bill. They get prescribed a "proven" medication , then are pushed out the factory door.

But the herbalist invites the customer in. They get a cup of revolting green tea, and a chat about their health, with someone who professes to genuinely care. Their iris is compared to the ancient chart, the palm is intently studied, and after a second cup of tea they are on their way. Wallet lightened, but feeling well cared for, and clutching a paper bag with some magic in it.

It may be the placebo effect. It may just be a cup of tea with someone interested in spending some time considering your health.

But a lot of people are very happy with their Quacks. Its not consumers knocking on the door of the ministry demanding it be sorted.