I want to make a complaint

[zooter]

Indicating right and then going straight through a roundabout is bloody dangerous. This ridiculous behaviour only started after the new demerit points schedule. As far as I am aware no rules of indicating actually changed.

I'm referring to small roundabouts which replaced giveways on a straight crossroad, not the large diameter highway types where you drive on and circulate for some distance before you come to the first lot of trafffic entering to your left.

Anyways, where do I go to complain.

[jazbug5]

Not sure what you mean here: did someone do this, or is that what you think is now supposed to happen?
Wouldn't the new rules have you indicating left just before you left..?

The thing is, the 'new' indicating rules are not (as I understand it) 'new', nor are hordes of PC Plods lurking at every mini roundabout to Take You Down.
What they are trying to address is the oh-so-common confusion at intersections where people leave a roundabout (generally bigger ones) without indicating, therefore side swiping someone who has no idea that they were 'obviously going straight through'. It may be a bit confusing at first, but... meh.
Anyway, I don't think it's going to be as supported by The Authoritays as LTNZ had hoped...?
Anyone see Campbell Live? I think there was something about it on that.

[HDTboy]

I think a bit of discretion is needed, I never indicate when going straight through a roundabout i can see the other side of. I'm always wary of anybody indicating right though

[Jeremy]

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/road-user-safety/new-road-rules/index.html

You don't indicate right to go straight, you indicate left when your leaving a roudabout.

Left or right, indicate in and out
Straight, indicate out.

[zooter]

i've got a problem with the dorks that feel compelled to indicate right and then switch indicators as they cross my bows and go straight through when they're in a lane marked straight/right. Their right indication encourages me to enter the roundabout for my "left turn". That is dead wrong and needs to be the subject of an LTSA media release.

[Virago]

Indicating right and then going straight through a roundabout is bloody dangerous. This ridiculous behaviour only started after the new demerit points schedule. As far as I am aware no rules of indicating actually changed.

I'm referring to small roundabouts which replaced giveways on a straight crossroad, not the large diameter highway types where you drive on and circulate for some distance before you come to the first lot of trafffic entering to your left.

Anyways, where do I go to complain.
Your damn right. Previously the indicating rules at roundabouts (which are not rocket science), were not compulsory. Now they are, and those who previously didn't indicate now seem to use any bloody indicator at random.

I recently observed a police officer in a marked patrol car, travel straight through at a small roundabout. Unbelievably, he indicated left as he entered, and then right as he exited. I sat and stared at him - he stared back at me from his precarious moral high ground.

[zooter]

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/road-user-safety/new-road-rules/index.html

You don't indicate right to go straight, you indicate left when your leaving a roudabout.

Left or right, indicate in and out
Straight, indicate out.
I KNOW the blimmin rules, who do I complain to to get the rest of the public educted to cease and desist from the aformentioned phantom right indicatiing??

[Waylander]

Ok this is how I have been doing this. Turn left indicate left, turn right indicate right then left when I pass the 12 o'clock exit, go straight nothing until leaving then indicate left when I pass the 9 o'clock exit. If this is not what the LTNZ thinks I should be doin then I don't care cause it makes sense from a common sense point of few and everyone who doesn't have the brains of a retarded dodo bird can tell what I'm doing. [/rant]

[Virago]

....Left or right, indicate in and out
Straight, indicate out.
......Thank you - beautifully simple explanation of a simple process! :D

[zooter]

Ok this is how I have been doing this. Turn left indicate left, turn right indicate right then left when I pass the 12 o'clock exit, go straight nothing until leaving then indicate left when I pass the 9 o'clock exit. If this is not what the LTNZ thinks I should be doin then I don't care cause it makes sense from a common sense point of few and everyone who doesn't have the brains of a retarded dodo bird can tell what I'm doing. [/rant]
Yeah, you me and anyone else with half a brain already had it down pat before the powers that be started making a fuss about it. Now we've got more problems than before.

[jazbug5]

Well, it's an LTNZ issue. I'd say you want to contact them.
This whole thing may yet be put quietly to bed by Nanny. Certainly brings the cretins out from under their slimy rocks, though.

[Waylander]

Yeah, you me and anyone else with half a brain already had it down pat before the powers that be started making a fuss about it. Now we've got more problems than before.

Now for the funny part. I'de never even seen a roundabout till I got here. Kinda odd that a damned "Merkin" has more common sense than LTNZ. Go figure.

[jazbug5]

Now for the funny part. I'de never even seen a roundabout till I got here. Kinda odd that a damned "Merkin" has more common sense than LTNZ. Go figure.

How do you make that out?
Aren't they just trying to get the understanding and practise of proper signalling universal? The sense is lacking in those morons who indicate like Dave's Disco through every intersection or *not at all*.
After all, this is precisely where most accidents happen.

[XP@]

why do they focus on this silly and not so dangerous rule when there is no focus on driving dangerously close or stupidly risky and pointless overtaking
edit: added the rant tags
if you use angle brackets it removes the rant

[Waylander]

How do you make that out?
Aren't they just trying to get the understanding and practise of proper signalling universal? The sense is lacking in those morons who indicate like Dave's Disco through every intersection or *not at all*.
After all, this is precisely where most accidents happen.

If that's true they are going the hard way about it. And would you rather I have said I have more sense than the average New Zealand person?:killingme

[shag]

Don't forget the 3 second rule now.. you must give at least 3 seconds warning before turning. This may now involve you having to physicaly stop on the round about before leaving it if it is of the smaller variety :D

[jazbug5]

It would have made more sense?
And since I'm Scottish, I get to have more sense than EVERYBODY!

[Da Bird]

Yip, I have definitely noticed an increase in people indicating right and then going straight ahead at the roundabout. Seems to have started when the "new" rules were publicised - I had never seen it happen before but a lot of people seem to be paranoid about what their indicators should be doing and end up confusing everyone else.

Would agree with the above for smaller roundabouts - left turn, indicate left, right turn, indicate right, straight through, don't indicate at all.

BC.

[zooter]

Yip, I have definitely noticed an increase in people indicating right and then going straight ahead at the roundabout. Seems to have started when the "new" rules were publicised - I had never seen it happen before but a lot of people seem to be paranoid about what their indicators should be doing and end up confusing everyone else.

Would agree with the above for smaller roundabouts - left turn, indicate left, right turn, indicate right, straight through, don't indicate at all.

BC.
I hope you give them a dose of the red and blues and a free roadside reeducation.

[XP@]

Yip, I have definitely noticed an increase in people indicating right and then going straight ahead at the roundabout. Seems to have started when the "new" rules were publicised - I had never seen it happen before but a lot of people seem to be paranoid about what their indicators should be doing and end up confusing everyone else.

Would agree with the above for smaller roundabouts - left turn, indicate left, right turn, indicate right, straight through, don't indicate at all.

BC.
So then Bykey Cop... why am I still seeing cars still travelling less than .5 seconds behind the car in front at 110kmph in the rain and dark passed cop cars and they do nuthing?

[Da Bird]

So then Bykey Cop... why am I still seeing cars still travelling less than .5 seconds behind the car in front at 110kmph in the rain and dark passed cop cars and they do nuthing?

Sorry, must have missed something... thought this thread was about roundabouts.

[XP@]

I went off topic... well laterally ranting about the 'new' rules

(and i want to make 200 posts , why i don't know, i just like round numbers...)

[Da Bird]

I went off topic... well laterally ranting about the 'new' rules

(and i want to make 200 posts , why i don't know, i just like round numbers...)

No probs... can't answer your question though... if I was responsible for every other cops actions in NZ I would be a walking basket case...

***wanders back into padded room***

[Virago]

... if I was responsible for every other cops actions in NZ I would be a walking basket case...
Like George Hawkins? :killingme

[Da Bird]

Like George Hawkins? :killingme

No comment.:yes:

[XP@]

No probs... can't answer your question though... if I was responsible for every other cops actions in NZ I would be a walking basket case...

***wanders back into padded room***
Ok, me not give you grief... cos me not want any back :)
... not that i would do anything to warrent it... :whistle:

[Ixion]

It would have made more sense?
And since I'm Scottish, I get to have more sense than EVERYBODY!

Ah, she's a sonsy lassie ! :niceone:

[Ixion]

What really shits me is when there is a two or more lane roundabout and some twit enteres the roundabout from the right lane (of the two lanes entering it). Then dives across my bow to take the left (9 oclock, 270 degree) exit. When I am continuing on to go straight ahead. Everybody seems to have overlooked that the new rules also laid down rules about what LANE you used to enter (and exit) . They'll never get it right, just assume they're all insane and may go in any direction at any moment without any notice or with contradictary notice.

[Virago]

No comment.:yes:
But you should comment - 97 posts - we need more round numbers!

[The Tazman]

Ok this is how I have been doing this. Turn left indicate left, turn right indicate right then left when I pass the 12 o'clock exit, go straight nothing until leaving then indicate left when I pass the 9 o'clock exit. If this is not what the LTNZ thinks I should be doin then I don't care cause it makes sense from a common sense point of few and everyone who doesn't have the brains of a retarded dodo bird can tell what I'm doing. [/rant]

Again spot on but as I have said before the problem with common sense is that it is not that common!!!!!!!!! It will be so un common soon that it will have to be added to the subjects they teach in school! ! ! !

[Da Bird]

They'll never get it right, just assume they're all insane and may go in any direction at any moment without any notice or with contradictary notice.

That's really the only way to ride / drive in Auckland!

[scumdog]

First point: we had A roundamabout (Homer Simpson pronounciation) but got it removed from this town - ta-da, no more problem!!

And when in the 'big-smoke" i.e. Dangerous's town, well it's simple and logical, just put on the hazard lights - caters for all eventualities and changes in direction :D :msn-wink:

See, I'm no th' only canny Scot on this site eh Jazbug? :D

[Ixion]

My philosophy , which makes sense of it is:

When waiting/entering the roundabout I signal where I will EVENTUALLY go - left, signal left, eventually end up hiving off to the right, signal right, straight ahead, no signal

Once I am ON the roundabout I treat it just like a curved bit of road - and If I'm going to deviate left or right (usually, left, to exit) I signal accordingly.

[Lou Girardin]

What the hell is wrong with people in this country? Suddenly there's confusion about a rule that's been in the Road Code for 20 years. Even a newbie about to do his test publicly asks about the indicating rule. If you don't know it at the point, you're in trouble. No bloody wonder we're the equivalent of Turkey in driving standards.
One sure way to reduce congestion would be to bring in licence retesting, that'll surely put half our drivers off the road.

[Beemer]

In the past I used my indicators as a courtesy at roundabouts - that is, I would always use the left or right indicator if I was turning, and although I wouldn't indicate if going straight ahead, if there was traffic waiting that had to give way to me if I were turning right, I would indicate to show I was exiting and they didn't have to give way to me. But with some roundabouts they are so small you really don't have time to indicate - I think there is some mention made of the size in the rules, but who knows how big a roundabout is in metres - I know I wouldn't!

No, I reckon the best rule would be for NO ONE to indicate at a roundabout EVER - that way everyone would be expecting you to cross their path and wouldn't move until you exited the roundabout! This focus on indicating will make absolutely no difference to the people who a) never indicate at roundabouts, b) those who never give way to traffic at roundabouts, and c) those who knew you had the right of way but thought they could beat you.

[MD]

Waylander laided it out clear as with his 9 o'clock, 12 o'clock description.
Trouble I've observed is pratts going straight through, trying too hard or nervous they wont get to indicate their left departure in time, put on the left indicator METRES BEFORE ENTERING THE R/BOUT. So as they enter at 6 o'clock the traffic ahead of them (at their 9 oclock) are fooled into false security that the pratts not about to cross their path ..bang, crash

[denill]

- I think there is some mention made of the size in the rules, but who knows how big a roundabout is in metres - I know I wouldn't!.

Uh oh, didn't know that. (Writes he who thinks he knows everything.)
Does anyone know what diameter the Roundabout has to be - before indication is required??



-No, I reckon the best rule would be for NO ONE to indicate at a roundabout EVER - that way everyone would be expecting you to cross their path and wouldn't move until you exited the roundabout! This focus on indicating will make absolutely no difference to the people who a) never indicate at roundabouts, b) those who never give way to traffic at roundabouts, and c) those who knew you had the right of way but thought they could beat you.

Not stupid. Certainly would rectify the crazy debacles presently witnessed at roundabouts.

Like - going straight ahead and putting left indicator on when entering???
With fuckwits like that on the roads it is a great wonder there are not MORE road deaths???

Cheers
Bill

[Fluffy Cat]

On a small roundabout i noticed that by the time you reach the point to indicate your exit when going straight on.You might get one flash if you are lucky before you cancel due to been in the exit.Try it sometime.
I doubt if the drivers in the left lane would see it but a car behind you might!?.He he you know it makes sense.

[denill]

Does anyone know what diameter the Roundabout has to be - before indication is required??


Should have written; before indication is required - exiting the Roundabout??

Cheers
Bill

[Hitcher]

Indicate in, indicate out. What's hard about that? It's not as though your left thumb is doing anything else at the time. Cager drivers juggling cellphones and mascara may have more of a problem...

[denill]

Indicate in, indicate out. What's hard about that?

It is not that it is hard - it is as has already been written, just totally impractical to indicate out on the small dia. roundabouts. Particularly those that are formed at an existing intersection, within the carriageway of the road......

A decent sized roundabout - no prob and in fact quite necessary.

[denill]

Does anyone know what diameter the Roundabout has to be - before indication is required??


Just answered my own question:
Talked to someone in Land Transport New Zealand and they said drivers are required to signal their exit from all roundabouts.
No matter what diameter.

They also supplied this <a href=http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/road-user-safety/new-road-rules/index.html>LINK:</A> which may, or may not be of interest.

Cheers
Bill

[Lou Girardin]

Indicate in, indicate out. What's hard about that? It's not as though your left thumb is doing anything else at the time. Cager drivers juggling cellphones and mascara may have more of a problem...

But Hitcher, how can you expect anyone to have to do that. Next you'll want them to keep a safe following distance and keep left. :no:

[Hitcher]

It is not that it is hard - it is as has already been written, just totally impractical to indicate out on the small dia. roundabouts. Particularly those that are formed at an existing intersection, within the carriageway of the road...

A decent sized roundabout - no prob and in fact quite necessary.
A roundabout is a roundabout. Size, according to the law, is irrelevant. Another case of it's not how much you've got, it's what you do with it! Every roundabout I have ever seen is at an intersection. I sure that there is a good reason for this. Use your indicators in the prescribed manner. Get over it.

[Ixion]

A roundabout is a roundabout. Size, according to the law, is irrelevant. Another case of it's not how much you've got, it's what you do with it! Every roundabout I have ever seen is at an intersection. I sure that there is a good reason for this. Use your indicators in the prescribed manner. Get over it.

But size does matter
[Editor: We take a short break to allow time for grubby guffaws
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Thank you. If we may now move on]

When you take the requirement to "indicate *after* passing your penultimtae turn off, and before turning off ", together with the "indicate for three seconds rule.

If the intersection is one with zero separation between exits (I know of lots thus), this means you have only the width of one lane to do your signalling. If that lane is 8m wide, my maths says that your maximum speed through the roundabout cannot be any more than 11 kph.Which will seldom be realistic. At any greater speed you must break one rule or other

[denill]

A roundabout is a roundabout. Size, according to the law, is irrelevant. Another case of it's not how much you've got, it's what you do with it! Every roundabout I have ever seen is at an intersection. I sure that there is a good reason for this. Use your indicators in the prescribed manner. Get over it.

It's little wonder that you have made 4,262 posts as you obviously are so pre-occupied with getting in a quick reply - you fail to address the subject?

If you are unable to assimilate what was written, why should I bother?? :no: :no:

[Pixie]

What the hell is wrong with people in this country? Suddenly there's confusion about a rule that's been in the Road Code for 20 years. Even a newbie about to do his test publicly asks about the indicating rule. If you don't know it at the point, you're in trouble. No bloody wonder we're the equivalent of Turkey in driving standards.
One sure way to reduce congestion would be to bring in licence retesting, that'll surely put half our drivers off the road.
The rule may have been in the code for 20 years ,but it was only in the brain of the average cager long enough to complete the license exam(some times not even that long)

[jazbug5]

Look. This is all pretty simple (much as Hitcher has attempted to point out).

Like I said, no-one is going to worry if you don't indicate for the full three seconds on a small roundabout. After all, it will only consist of one lane, more than likely, and so by leaving before someone 'expects' you to, you won't be causing an accident, will you? I agree that following distances etc ought to be targetted- but as far as this particular rule goes, if everyone can just start following the code, then quite a few stupid accidents will be avoided. Let's not get hung up on size, guys...

[Hitcher]

If you are unable to assimilate what was written, why should I bother??
Remind me, oh fragile one, what it is I should be assimilating?

[Fluffy Cat]

When going ahead on a small roundabout you will always break the law because by the time you hit the switch and the indicator lights you will be at or on the exit.Simple as that unless you drive at 10kph.Another thing to consider is how will the driver at the exit er see the indicator.I can understand it for the other exits but not for straight on.

[jazbug5]

When going ahead on a small roundabout you will always break the law because by the time you hit the switch and the indicator lights you will be at or on the exit.Simple as that unless you drive at 10kph.Another thing to consider is how will the driver at the exit er see the indicator.I can understand it for the other exits but not for straight on.

Are you always this pedantic..? The police won't be, I assure you- and if they are, their superiors will have a good laugh at their expense. Just don't whizz through really fast, indicate just as you pass the exit prior to the one you want (3 seconds or no) and everything will be fine.
As I keep saying, it's the larger roundabouts that are causing concern. Better a tiny bit of confusion where it's unlikely to cause an accident than the current situation where accidents are happening every day.
Honestly- I see the reports come in daily.

[Pwalo]

Come on guys enough of this already. If you're on the bike bugger signalling, just wheelie straight across to your exit.

If you're in the car just hit the hazard lights so that you've got all options covered.

You're all thinking too much.

[Hitcher]

When going ahead on a small roundabout you will always break the law because by the time you hit the switch and the indicator lights you will be at or on the exit.Simple as that unless you drive at 10kph.Another thing to consider is how will the driver at the exit er see the indicator.I can understand it for the other exits but not for straight on.
Wax on, wax off. Indicate in, indicate out. Only a fewel breaks the three second rewel.

[Lou Girardin]

When going ahead on a small roundabout you will always break the law because by the time you hit the switch and the indicator lights you will be at or on the exit.Simple as that unless you drive at 10kph.Another thing to consider is how will the driver at the exit er see the indicator.I can understand it for the other exits but not for straight on.

OK, have it your way. Just have the $150 ready.

[denill]

When going ahead on a small roundabout you will always break the law because by the time you hit the switch and the indicator lights you will be at or on the exit.Simple as that unless you drive at 10kph.Another thing to consider is how will the driver at the exit er see the indicator.I can understand it for the other exits but not for straight on.

Good try Fluffy Cat, but you are wasting your time. Rather than consider what you have said 'they' just address a totally different issue. This Forum has posters who will put their own spin on an opponent's viewpoint - then proceed to shoot it down.

The Road Rules re Roundabouts are just another example of the "Law is an Ass" (thanks to the politicians) as there is one rule to encompass all diameter roundabouts. (A purpose built Roundabout - no problem and used properly, great. Beats mindless traffic lights.) You and I are referring to examples that occur the length of Heretaunga Street, Hastings. Where split second timing on the indicator is required.

But as we have been reminded, the law is the law......
Imagine an over zealous cop filling out his quota there. Oh that's right, there is no such thing as an over zealous cop!!

[Lou Girardin]

Good try Fluffy Cat, but you are wasting your time. Rather than consider what you have said 'they' just address a totally different issue. This Forum has posters who will put their own spin on an opponent's viewpoint - then proceed to shoot it down.

The Road Rules re Roundabouts are just another example of the "Law is an Ass" (thanks to the politicians) as there is one rule to encompass all diameter roundabouts. (A purpose built Roundabout - no problem and used properly, great. Beats mindless traffic lights.) You and I are referring to examples that occur the length of Heretaunga Street, Hastings. Where split second timing on the indicator is required.

But as we have been reminded, the law is the law......
Imagine an over zealous cop filling out his quota there. Oh that's right, there is no such thing as an over zealous cop!!

No, I've considered what he said and discounted it. Based on 20 years experience of guiding a plethora of powered vehicles through roundabouts (and indicating).
But then, what do I know.

[jazbug5]

*sigh*

Come on guys, we'd best give up. Some people just like being outraged.

P.S. Oh, and like Lou, I was trying to address your issues- but you won't listen. I work at LTSA and have spoken to colleagues to make sure I've got my facts right for you; the cops will not- and this is a matter of policy- be sitting on mini roundabouts waiting for you to stuff up.

[denill]

*sigh*

Come on guys, we'd best give up. Some people just like being outraged.

P.S. Oh, and like Lou, I was trying to address your issues- but you won't listen. I work at LTSA and have spoken to colleagues to make sure I've got my facts right for you; the cops will not- and this is a matter of policy- be sitting on mini roundabouts waiting for you to stuff up.

Yeah?? So why make a law that is not to be enforced??

Is it a bit like the cycle helmet law??

[denill]

*sigh*

Come on guys, we'd best give up. Some people just like being outraged.

P.S. Oh, and like Lou, I was trying to address your issues- but you won't listen. I work at LTSA and have spoken to colleagues to make sure I've got my facts right for you; the cops will not- and this is a matter of policy- be sitting on mini roundabouts waiting for you to stuff up.

Hey jazbug5, thanks for going to the trouble to check that out, but I would like to see the Commisioner of Police put that in writing.
But perhaps he is a bit busy right now.

[jazbug5]

Just don't whizz through really fast, indicate just as you pass the exit prior to the one you want (3 seconds or no) and everything will be fine.
As I keep saying, it's the larger roundabouts that are causing concern. Better a tiny bit of confusion where it's unlikely to cause an accident than the current situation where accidents are happening every day.


The three second rule, in this case, is less important than clearing up the confusion and preventing the accidents caused by the inability of those 'differently abled' among us to operate an indicator switch without a law to tell them what to do.

Oh, actually, tell you what- forget it. Off you go and enjoy your outrage.
It's obviously fun. Do the wheelie thing suggested earlier, too!

[scumdog]

Imagine an over zealous cop filling out his quota there. Oh that's right, there is no such thing as an over zealous cop!!

Of course there is - just above overzealous motorbike salesmen in the popularity stakes!!! :whistle:

[crazylittleshit]

:stupid: This is all so confusin................................... :no:

[Lou Girardin]

Of course there is - just above overzealous motorbike salesmen in the popularity stakes!!! :whistle:

Bike salemen are top of the charts, well actually just behind accessory salesmen.
They sell dreams, youth, nostalgia.

How far do you have to travel to find a roundabout to sit at?

[scumdog]

Bike salemen are top of the charts, well actually just behind accessory salesmen.
They sell dreams, youth, nostalgia.

How far do you have to travel to find a roundabout to sit at?

Roundabouts? Hmm, aren't they things you have in cities where there is traffic congestion and gormless drivers etc? :msn-wink:

(Looks in map book)

About 85km away - and the boss won't let me go that far! :no:

Besides, I only visit cities to remind me how bad they really are. :Pokey:

[Skyryder]

What the hell is wrong with people in this country? Suddenly there's confusion about a rule that's been in the Road Code for 20 years. Even a newbie about to do his test publicly asks about the indicating rule. If you don't know it at the point, you're in trouble. No bloody wonder we're the equivalent of Turkey in driving standards.
One sure way to reduce congestion would be to bring in licence retesting, that'll surely put half our drivers off the road.

You want to send that idea to Gearge Hawkins. I'm sure he will find some way to gather revinue from it. The roundabout law is not about road safety. It is simply another means of gathering revinue. To me it is common sense that if a vehicle is not indicating it is not turning. But no the LTSA have decreed other wise. On roundabouts you must indicate when going straingt ahead. As for our driving strandards being on par with Turkey that might have something to do with Turkeys making the rules.

Skyryder

[zooter]

*sigh*

Come on guys, we'd best give up. Some people just like being outraged.

P.S. Oh, and like Lou, I was trying to address your issues- but you won't listen. I work at LTSA and have spoken to colleagues to make sure I've got my facts right for you; the cops will not- and this is a matter of policy- be sitting on mini roundabouts waiting for you to stuff up.
Actually I'd like to see a few cops sitting on miniroudabouts and dishing up education to the dorks that indicate right before going straight through, also the ones that fail to indicate their right turn. Even better something on the TV news about the appalling failure to apply simple, logical, intuitive rules.

And ticketing a tailgater an hour instead of a speeder would bring down the accident rate a lot faster. Cops need to lift their game on this one too, I regularly see cop cars tailgating.

But seriously, where do I go to complain??

[jazbug5]

LTNZ (the artist formerly known as LTSA).
If you can wait until Monday, I'll find out exactly who/what dept.

[What?]

Well, it's an LTNZ issue. I'd say you want to contact them.
Waste of time... I did, but the problem I had was that to convey my message I had to use actual words, rather than neanderthal grunts. This, of course, meant that the LTNZ staff had no idea what I meant.
My point, however, is that indicating a right turn at a roundabout contradicts the legal definition of a right turn...

[Skyryder]

Oh that's right, there is no such thing as an over zealous cop!!

Or a quota.

Skyryder

[Ixion]

Waste of time... I did, but the problem I had was that to convey my message I had to use actual words, rather than neanderthal grunts. This, of course, meant that the LTNZ staff had no idea what I meant.
My point, however, is that indicating a right turn at a roundabout contradicts the legal definition of a right turn...

How do you mean ?. A turn is a change in direction, no more no less. As in you signal right if changing lanes even though you're not "turning".

Think about it this way. Imagine the roundabout was replaced by a straight forward intersection. You come up to it and want to go off down the street on the right. So you indicate right, right ?

Now put in the roundabout. As you approach it you still want to ride off down the street on the right. So indicate right. BUT - now you can't actually immediately get to the street on the right, you have to ride a little way round this curvey bit of road. So ride around (signalling right, cos that's still the road you want to drive off down). Now your exit road is coming up, so you want to drive off down it. But to do so you must change direction . If you don't change direction you'll end up driving round and round the roundabout in circles forever. So , as you are changing direction, you must signal, And you are changing toward the left so you signal left. Which is also a courtesy to the traffic waiting to come OUT of your exit road, they know they can pull out.

I dont see the problem with any of this and by and large it's what I and I think most folk have done for years.

It's only on small roundabouts (which incidentally I hate anyway, why ARE Transit so obsessed with making EVERY intersection into a roundabout ?) that the lack of time to do everything becomes an issue - especially the ones where going straight through you don't curve at all, just go straight across.

[What?]

The legal definition of a right turn is to cross the centre line - thus going "striaght ahead" at an intersection where the centreline veers left is legally a right turn.
The centreline in a roundabout is a circle in the middle of the roundabout, therefore, unless you are planning to move onto the island, a right turn on a roundabout is not technically possible.
In short, once on a roundabout, the only possible turn is left to get off it (or a right if you are changing lanes).

[WINJA]

AS EVERYONE KNOWS I HATE COPS AND ANDY KNACKSTEAD AND THE LTSA, BUT WHEN I SAW ANDY KNACKSTEAD IN A CAR ON TV EXPLAINING IT AND SHOWING IT IN PRACTICE IT MADE SENSE TO ME AND I CAN SEE THE SAFETY ASPECT , IM HAPPY TO GIVE IT A GO IT WILL BE WORTH IT IF EVEN ONE OF US IS NOT KNOCKED OFF OUR BIKES

[Hitcher]

AS EVERYONE KNOWS I HATE COPS AND ANDY KNACKSTEAD AND THE LTSA, BUT WHEN I SAW ANDY KNACKSTEAD IN A CAR ON TV EXPLAINING IT AND SHOWING IT IN PRACTICE IT MADE SENSE TO ME AND I CAN SEE THE SAFETY ASPECT , IM HAPPY TO GIVE IT A GO IT WILL BE WORTH IT IF EVEN ONE OF US IS NOT KNOCKED OFF OUR BIKES
Humour AND reason in the same afternoon? Was that a flock of flying pigs I just saw flap past?

[scumdog]

Humour AND reason in the same afternoon? Was that a flock of flying pigs I just saw flap past?

And oyvay!, such grammar as I've never seen!!

[zooter]

Waste of time... I did, but the problem I had was that to convey my message I had to use actual words, rather than neanderthal grunts. This, of course, meant that the LTNZ staff had no idea what I meant.
My point, however, is that indicating a right turn at a roundabout contradicts the legal definition of a right turn...
So you would be one of the other dawks that crosses my bows with no indication as I'm about to pull on to the rounabout???

Go Winja, if it wasn't for the caps you'd think you had a "reasoning infusion"

[What?]

So you would be one of the other dawks that crosses my bows with no indication as I'm about to pull on to the rounabout???
No, I wouldn't - I do what the rule says, even though it is in full contradiction of other rules/definitions. Thing is, even if it is wrong, it is better if everybody does the same wrong thing - then the only people who will be confused are the 2 million tourists we get here every year...
BTW - why would you pull into a roundabout if there is something coming from your right? YOu are required to give way to the right at all times on a roundabout, and that does make sense.

[zooter]

No, I wouldn't - I do what the rule says, even though it is in full contradiction of other rules/definitions. Thing is, even if it is wrong, it is better if everybody does the same wrong thing - then the only people who will be confused are the 2 million tourists we get here every year...
BTW - why would you pull into a roundabout if there is something coming from your right? YOu are required to give way to the right at all times on a roundabout, and that does make sense.
If something is coming from my 12 o'clock and not indicating the turn I am inclined to get a move on. That is what roundabouts are all about, increasing the carrying capacity of the intersection. I look at their front right wheel, where they are looking, and what their hands are doing on their steering wheel, as well as their flashers but sometimes I just can't win.

[denill]

If something is coming from my 12 o'clock and not indicating the turn I am inclined to get a move on. That is what roundabouts are all about, increasing the carrying capacity of the intersection. I look at their front right wheel, where they are looking, and what their hands are doing on their steering wheel, as well as their flashers but sometimes I just can't win.

Yes - I most definitely agree with that. You have phrased that very well. We all get messages from 'the attitude' of the vehicle that could just 'hurt' us telling us what the driver may or may not do. Then get on with it. Motorcyclists are particularly good at that, or they would be maimed or worse by now.
In reality though the indicator thing is neccessary in some Ropundabout circumstances but the confusion is in the blanketing of the rooles.

[What?]

Ummmm, the rules actually aren't blanket. If you read them fully, the confusion just gets worse.

[Jantar]

So you would be one of the other dawks that crosses my bows with no indication as I'm about to pull on to the rounabout???

If there is a vehicle on the roundabout that HASN'T indicated left, then the only safe conclusion is that it is going to cross your bows. I would rather have this situation that you describe than the one where the idiot indicates left when he is actually going strait ahead. I know one driver who insists yhat he is doing it correctly by indicating left for straight ahead as its the only way he can indicate for 3 seconds befor exiting.

I like the roundabout rules the way they were. ie indicate wherever practical prior to entering if you are planning to turn, don't indicate prior to entering if you are planning to go strait ahead. Indicate left if practical prior to exiting. The requirement to indicate was a courtesy to other drivers, but one that made sense.

Now, indicating is mandatory. Not only is it mandatory, but you must indicate for 3 seconds and be prepared to be fined and incur demerit points if you fail to do so.

it is this requirement to indicate for 3 seconds that I object to. With an 8 meter wide lane the maximum speed that you can drive through the roundabout is 10 kmh. But with the 5 meter wide lanes in Queenstown you must slow down to 6 kmh. I know that there have been statements made in this thread that the 3 second rule wont be enforced at smaller roundabouts, but until I see that in legislation I just will not believe it.

I have no problems with the concept of indicating, its just the demerit points for not indicating for 3 seconds that I object to.

[zooter]

If there is a vehicle on the roundabout that HASN'T indicated left, then the only safe conclusion is that it is going to cross your bows. I would rather have this situation that you describe than the one where the idiot indicates left when he is actually going strait ahead. I know one driver who insists yhat he is doing it correctly by indicating left for straight ahead as its the only way he can indicate for 3 seconds befor exiting.

I like the roundabout rules the way they were. ie indicate wherever practical prior to entering if you are planning to turn, don't indicate prior to entering if you are planning to go strait ahead. Indicate left if practical prior to exiting. The requirement to indicate was a courtesy to other drivers, but one that made sense.

Now, indicating is mandatory. Not only is it mandatory, but you must indicate for 3 seconds and be prepared to be fined and incur demerit points if you fail to do so.

it is this requirement to indicate for 3 seconds that I object to. With an 8 meter wide lane the maximum speed that you can drive through the roundabout is 10 kmh. But with the 5 meter wide lanes in Queenstown you must slow down to 6 kmh. I know that there have been statements made in this thread that the 3 second rule wont be enforced at smaller roundabouts, but until I see that in legislation I just will not believe it.

I have no problems with the concept of indicating, its just the demerit points for not indicating for 3 seconds that I object to.

pretty sure the 3 sec rule doesn't apply to roundabouts
Yesterday's paper had a feature blurb from LTNZ including the pics out of the road code as part of an article about our local roundabout problems, nice one.

[What?]

Now, indicating is mandatory. Not only is it mandatory, but you must indicate for 3 seconds and be prepared to be fined and incur demerit points if you fail to do so..
This is where it gets confusing - you only have to indicate the left for a minimum of 3 seconds where it is practicable to do so. This means on some roundabouts you may have to indicate right as you go around, but not necessarily left as you exit.
In Pomgolia roundabouts are known as "circusses" (even though the plural of circus is "circi"). It is an apt name.

[Skyryder]

Seems I jusxt can not leave this alone. Here's anothe issue with roundabouts that is specifically biker oriented.

But first a question. Have you ever had to change gear while in a roudabout? I know I have and I would bet that many uf us here have done so at times.

Now the second question. Can you indicate while changing gear? That is while the clutch leaver is depressed.

My indicator is on the left hand side and at times I have been known to change down at precisely as I am exiting the roundabout and when by law I am required to indicate left.

Now I hold the view that my safety and other road users also is more important than signalling left as I exit a roundabout.

Now correct me if I am wrong but my analysis of the roundabout indicating is priamarily for courtesy. For a car to impact you on the exit point it would have to bypass the roundabout and turn right going the wrong way into traffic flow.

So in my view this new law has nothing to do with safety whatsoever and is just another revinue gathering scheme thought up by the LTSA.

If those of you here who believe that this new law is for our safety can you please explain how it does so.


Skyryder

[RON SOAK]

You want to complain! Look at these shoes. I've only had them three weeks and the heels are worn right through.
..If you complain nothing happens, you might as well not bother.
...Oh my back hurts, it's not a very fine day and I'm sick and tired of this office.

[Hitcher]

Seems I jusxt can not leave this alone. Here's anothe issue with roundabouts that is specifically biker oriented.

But first a question. Have you ever had to change gear while in a roudabout? I know I have and I would bet that many uf us here have done so at times.

Now the second question. Can you indicate while changing gear? That is while the clutch leaver is depressed.

My indicator is on the left hand side and at times I have been known to change down at precisely as I am exiting the roundabout and when by law I am required to indicate left.

Now I hold the view that my safety and other road users also is more important than signalling left as I exit a roundabout.

Now correct me if I am wrong but my analysis of the roundabout indicating is priamarily for courtesy. For a car to impact you on the exit point it would have to bypass the roundabout and turn right going the wrong way into traffic flow.

So in my view this new law has nothing to do with safety whatsoever and is just another revinue gathering scheme thought up by the LTSA.

If those of you here who believe that this new law is for our safety can you please explain how it does so.


Skyryder
Harden up man. What's your thumb for, or are you an amputee?

[Dafe]

Going straight through a roundabout - Only Indicate on Exit.
If your indicating left on going in, expect to die a grim d :devil2: eath!!!

[250learna]

Going straight through a roundabout - Only Indicate on Exit.
If your indicating left on going in, expect to die a grim d :devil2: eath!!!

haha surprising how such a simple rule can confuse so many, it was already in the road code and i used on any decent size roundabout
you just have to indicate left when leaving the bloody thing, is that realy that hard, it lets the people who are waiting to get in to it that they can because you are pulling out.

[What?]

It used to be a recommendation - now it is a rule.

[Lou Girardin]

I suppose that to be able to indicate you'd have to extricate your thumb from your arse first.
I've never heard so many people advertising their incompetence.
The horse is dead people stop flogging the poor thing.

[Hitcher]

It used to be a recommendation - now it is a rule.
A bit like cellphones on golf courses. Some people just don't get it, so rules have to be passed!

[zooter]

Look. This is all pretty simple (much as Hitcher has attempted to point out).

Like I said, no-one is going to worry if you don't indicate for the full three seconds on a small roundabout. After all, it will only consist of one lane, more than likely, and so by leaving before someone 'expects' you to, you won't be causing an accident, will you? I agree that following distances etc ought to be targetted- but as far as this particular rule goes, if everyone can just start following the code, then quite a few stupid accidents will be avoided. Let's not get hung up on size, guys...

Jazzbug, I believe you posted something here about who to write to complain, being the local representative of Land Transport. I can't find that post and I'm still waiting.

[jazbug5]

Oooops.

Today it shall be...

*PM on its way; although I should just say, that while I may work at LTNZ I certainly am not a representative or spokesperson...!