Jacque Fresco on TVNZ now (Wed 14 April) [Archive]

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mashman

14th April 2010, 18:29

(well on close up tonight) this should be interesting...

scissorhands

14th April 2010, 18:38

Ha! whats the bet they make him look like a nutter, thanks for that!

mashman

14th April 2010, 18:41

that's the bit i'm looking forward to... be fun to read what the "great minds" think...

Edbear

14th April 2010, 19:51

Interesting chap! Hard to believe he's 94!

R6_kid

14th April 2010, 20:37

Interesting chap! Hard to believe he's 94!

I would have said 60's - 70's at most!

Edbear

14th April 2010, 20:43

I would have said 60's - 70's at most!

I reckon he's a good advert for being fascinated and interested in life and enthusiastic about stuff, keeping the mind bright and active! He seems to have so much energy and enthusiasm!

Some of his ideas are worth thinking about, too!

mashman

14th April 2010, 21:01

Been there, seen life, all of life, probaby had quite a few t-shirts and all he promotes is a vision...

I ask you all to think about 1 single question, maybe 2:

1: What facet of your life is not "stifled" by money?
B: Does the B thing bother you... watch the bee movie... yes i'm serious :yes:. (for me the 1 sting and your dead. Life's short, do something truly glorious with your spare time theme came across).
?: What is the aim of a business? (for me, to make money)
2: And then ask, Where does it come from? (for me, where do the banks get it?)
3: What else could I be doing? (me home dad please)
4: Without money, what couldn't be achieved? (free education, healthcare, free everything as long as we each just do something, hours will vary, but hey, EVERYONE will be looked after and cared for)

But who's cares, i'm fuckin mad

My read between the lines is "he should be way more than just promoting a vision... that's a normal way of life to me... why is he not THE consultant to every government. That attitude COULD do much more for this planet in 2 years, than any government could achieve in a million lifetimes."

Huggies and dribbles.

mashman

14th April 2010, 21:05

I reckon he's a good advert for being fascinated and interested in life and enthusiastic about stuff, keeping the mind bright and active! He seems to have so much energy and enthusiasm!

Some of his ideas are worth thinking about, too!

It's because he sees, in plain and simple terms, doom, pain and more doom for the human race and time is fleeting. And rightly so.

It's not his ideas he's promoting Ed, it OUR IDEAS, ALL OF OUR IDEAS, hopefully much less fucked up versions than the ones we have at the moment.

I ask you Ed. If you had one generation of children, form birth to X without money troubles what could you achieve in NZ?... or what couldn't you achieve with that generation. Look good and hard at this one.

Edbear

14th April 2010, 21:19

It's because he sees, in plain and simple terms, doom, pain and more doom for the human race and time is fleeting. And rightly so.

It's not his ideas he's promoting Ed, it OUR IDEAS, ALL OF OUR IDEAS, hopefully much less fucked up versions than the ones we have at the moment.

I ask you Ed. If you had one generation of children, form birth to X without money troubles what could you achieve in NZ?... or what couldn't you achieve with that generation. Look good and hard at this one.

Go on... Time is fleeting and by the time you've grown up and rectified the circumstances of your birth and upbringing and found out who you are and where to head, coped with setbacks and ill health and being preoccupied with marriage and bringing up children, you get to be too old to do what you could have done.

He's 94 years old and look how far he's got. He's not the first, and won't be the last to put forward ideals that are thoughtful nor seek to influence for the good. You make the point that we all want a better life, a more secure life, a more peaceful life. We want technology to work for us, not against us, and all these things are what most people want. Real question is why haven't we got it? After all it can be done, can it not?

MisterD

14th April 2010, 21:35

The bloke what makes the exhausts?

NighthawkNZ

14th April 2010, 21:41

Download and watch both Zeitgeist (http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/)doco's

They are free to download...

scissorhands

14th April 2010, 22:15

Go on... Time is fleeting and by the time you've grown up and rectified the circumstances of your birth and upbringing and found out who you are and where to head, coped with setbacks and ill health and being preoccupied with marriage and bringing up children, you get to be too old to do what you could have done.

He's 94 years old and look how far he's got. He's not the first, and won't be the last to put forward ideals that are thoughtful nor seek to influence for the good. You make the point that we all want a better life, a more secure life, a more peaceful life. We want technology to work for us, not against us, and all these things are what most people want. Real question is why haven't we got it? After all it can be done, can it not?

Thanks for that. Why haven't we got that? Fuedal siverbacks? Let the chicks run the show more...

mashman

14th April 2010, 22:19

He's 94 years old and look how far he's got. He's not the first, and won't be the last to put forward ideals that are thoughtful nor seek to influence for the good. You make the point that we all want a better life, a more secure life, a more peaceful life. We want technology to work for us, not against us, and all these things are what most people want. Real question is why haven't we got it? After all it can be done, can it not?

I'm not parrotting his "party line". On it's own merit, why isn't it possible? Life will go on, you'll need cops, people well be dickheads and arses and fuckwits (less so without money i reckon)... it's a FACT of life. That doesn't stop us all working for money does it?

scissorhands

14th April 2010, 22:22

Honestly, check out matrolineal societies and crime

Edbear

15th April 2010, 07:47

Thanks for that. Why haven't we got that? Fuedal siverbacks? Let the chicks run the show more...

I'm not parrotting his "party line". On it's own merit, why isn't it possible? Life will go on, you'll need cops, people well be dickheads and arses and fuckwits (less so without money i reckon)... it's a FACT of life. That doesn't stop us all working for money does it?

Money is necessary and we all work for it and we all want or need just that much more.

Obviously we need a societal structure with governance and communication and laws. Human history demonstrates that Man has tried about every form of rule you can imagine with varying degrees of success or failure.

Could we have a civilisation without money? Is it possible to have a society where everyone works for the common good? Could we develop technology with the betterment of society as the motivating force?

John Lennon asked the question a long time ago in song, (Imagine), but no-one has come up with a practical answer as yet. The fact is that despite the majority wanting these things few can agree on how to achieve them, and too many are selfishly motivated. Altruism and self-sacrifice are not the dominant forces in human beings unfortunately.

mashman

15th April 2010, 09:01

Money is necessary and we all work for it and we all want or need just that much more

Ya see that's the thing. For me, money isn't necessary at all. It's just that my life is tied to it at the moment and if I don't earn it, then I won't get what I need to continue mine and my families lives... kind of shit for those living pay day to pay day...

Obviously we need a societal structure with governance and communication and laws. Human history demonstrates that Man has tried about every form of rule you can imagine with varying degrees of success or failure.

We already have a societal structure with governance and communication and laws. We don't need one because it already exists. You have a people providing your daily essentials employed by the government, you have phones and computers and we all know about the laws we have.

Yes, human history does show that using finances to "control" how people live their lives doesn't work. That's all it shows to me. People with money will show the darker side of humanity to keep it and currently the medium for deployment is media and government...

Could we have a civilisation without money? Is it possible to have a society where everyone works for the common good? Could we develop technology with the betterment of society as the motivating force?

Think about a normal working day. Get up, go to work 9-5 (for arguments sake), earn money, go home. Wether you like it or not, you're already working for the common good, otherwise society would have collapsed by now... right? What's the difference if there's no money involved?

John Lennon asked the question a long time ago in song, (Imagine), but no-one has come up with a practical answer as yet. The fact is that despite the majority wanting these things few can agree on how to achieve them, and too many are selfishly motivated. Altruism and self-sacrifice are not the dominant forces in human beings unfortunately.

Maybe it's a Scouse thing... although I can't sing and I ain't as pwetty. I'm 40 Ed. And i beg to differ. Altruism and Self-Sacrifice are daily occurrences and you doing it every second you "comply"... money dictates the level of Altruism and Self-Sacrifice because we use it as a measuring stick. If a person isn't getting paid enough, they'll do half a job etc...

Noone cares what the minority thinks. Even if the minority is 50 million people. the government don't believe it can be done because they ARE MONEY MEN... they have no concept of a day without making money. And these are the guys who "run" the country in YOUR name... surely all you have to do is ask?

I still fully believe that with only 4 million people on these 2 Islands you have the perfect opportunity to show the world how to do it and that it can be done. Seems like there would be a few million people "out there" that would love to help us all try too. Shop Smarter New Zealand...

mashman

15th April 2010, 09:04

He's on at Auckland Uni tonight and I'm plenty pissed that I can't go and ask this guy a question or two. shame he ain't spritely enough to visit the major cities of the country. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa anyone going?

Pixie

15th April 2010, 11:02

Thanks for that. Why haven't we got that? Fuedal siverbacks? Let the chicks run the show more...

We just had 9 years of "chicks" running the show

Pixie

15th April 2010, 11:04

Is it possible to have a society where everyone works for the common good?

Yes,it is,
First we need to grow 6 legs and live in nests or hives

oldrider

15th April 2010, 11:30

mashman

15th April 2010, 11:40

First we need to grow 6 legs and live in nests or hives :clap: did you enjoy the movie?

mashman

15th April 2010, 11:55

A few moments on Close Up and the man "recharged my batteries" and zest for life!

The old stifling "left right" political "pretenders" of our world are only profiting from "control of the masses" while they personally pick the bones for their own personal gain!

A and B arguing and even "fighting", for the benefit of "C"!

Isn't it time A and B kicked C's arse once and for all! :yes:

A few moments on Close Up and the man "recharged my batteries" and zest for life!

The old stifling "left right" political "pretenders" of our world are only profiting from "control of the masses" while they personally pick the bones for their own personal gain!

A and B arguing and even "fighting", for the benefit of "C"!

Isn't it time A and B kicked C's arse once and for all! :yes:

What he said. Why are we not that way already.

Our Governments seem not to be able to come up with general solutions, well ones that don't involve vast sums of money that YOU pay for. Maybe "we" should all show them how to do it. IT IS JUST A SHIFT IN THINKING. No more, no less. If you're not convinced, then why not ask questions of real people who have figured it out?

mashman

15th April 2010, 12:01

He's 94 years old and look how far he's got. He's not the first, and won't be the last to put forward ideals that are thoughtful nor seek to influence for the good. You make the point that we all want a better life, a more secure life, a more peaceful life. We want technology to work for us, not against us, and all these things are what most people want. Real question is why haven't we got it? After all it can be done, can it not?

And you're how old Ed. An active mind the key to a long life you say. Then you have plenty of time to exercise it for the betterment of mankind/humanity/everyone have it any way you like... you are a reasonable man aren't you? Is it just a shift in thinking? Can you be the same person you are now, but in a society without a financial system?

Laava

15th April 2010, 12:14

He was very together esp when you consider his age! Was interesting what he said about all forms of government ever have been corrupt. I agree with that although there are varying degrees of corrupt but given that, all future forms of government will also be corrupt and it all boils down to one word, as an individual, a whanau, a government, a country or a race......GREED! It's a basic human motivation, we might not even function without it. IMHO.

mashman

15th April 2010, 12:26

GREED! It's a basic human motivation, we might not even function without it. IMHO.

Of course we will. There will still be bragging rights and status associated with sports, industry, innovation, cinema etc... and your greed motivation will be to beat the other guy, not to line anyones pockets, but more over, it will be your individual greed, not necessarily malicious eh?

NighthawkNZ

15th April 2010, 12:42

A and B arguing and even "fighting", for the benefit of "C"!

Just changing th egooberment does nothing they are all puppets of the same pupeteer... if you want real change get rid of the pupeteer... Why is it 1% control over 60% of the earths resources when its not really theirs in the first place but belongs to every one and every entity on this planet and has to be shared freely.

This will add me to a few block lists, and probably a few red whats its, but who cares... the bible and the beast, "the beast is money itself..." (I see is as clear as daylight) and that is what we have been fighting all along... The head of the beast the pupeteers, the bankers and others corporates which many are now starting combine in with and controled by the various goverments which becomes Facisms, the US is more Facist than most countries now, and look at where all Hitlers scientists went with Project Papaer Clip... ? (no I am not religious was just bought up in a religous family, but I know the stories) If we want real change then fight the beast, and the real pupeteers.. or else it will just stay the same with a new face and then we say welcome to the New World Order.

Every major organised religion is all controlled by the Luminati (yes including them... who you are thinking enemy). The Luminati controls the secret groups, the Freemasons, the Stone Cutters, the Builderburg Group, The Owls, The Skull & Cross bones blah blah blah the Luminati is control by the... Vatican. All you have to do is follow the money all leads back to the Vatican.

Money causes greed, which causes hate, anger etc..."money the root of all evil." Was at work the other day and something went wrong, was going to cost us more money... and the boss said "Thats the nature of the beast." Then add in the prophecy the mark of the beast, that you will not be able to buy sell or trade with out it... is that computer chips well we have been testing them on our dogs and pets...?

At the end of the day you are modern day slave to the system and that keeps the pupeteers in power who control the governments which in turn control you. You think you have freedoms well think again. If you have true freedom you would be able to go anywhere in the world without a passort without big brother watching and manipulating you, You would be able to have your needs met (yes the resource based ecomony based Jacque Fresco ideas.) the earth has the resources to cloth, house, and put food in the stomach of every living creature out there including every man woman and child. But greed is stopping that.

But then again I know nothing so I shuddup as I am just a simple man with a simple life... oh and rides a bike :) since this is a bike forums :doh:

oldrider

15th April 2010, 13:11

Just changing th egooberment does nothing they are all puppets of the same pupeteer... if you want real change get rid of the pupeteer... Why is it 1% control over 60% of the earths resources when its not really theirs in the first place but belongs to every one and every entity on this planet and has to be shared freely.

This will add me to a few block lists, and probably a few red whats its, but who cares... the bible and the beast, "the beast is money itself..." (I see is as clear as daylight) and that is what we have been fighting all along... The head of the beast the pupeteers, the bankers and others corporates which many are now starting combine in with and controled by the various goverments which becomes Facisms, the US is more Facist than most countries now, and look at where all Hitlers scientists went with Project Papaer Clip... ? (no I am not religious was just bought up in a religous family, but I know the stories) If we want real change then fight the beast, and the real pupeteers.. or else it will just stay the same with a new face and then we say welcome to the New World Order.

Every major organised religion is all controlled by the Luminati (yes including them... who you are thinking enemy). The Luminati controls the secret groups, the Freemasons, the Stone Cutters, the Builderburg Group, The Owls, The Skull & Cross bones blah blah blah the Luminati is control by the... Vatican. All you have to do is follow the money all leads back to the Vatican.

Money causes greed, which causes hate, anger etc..."money the root of all evil." Was at work the other day and something went wrong, was going to cost us more money... and the boss said "Thats the nature of the beast." Then add in the prophecy the mark of the beast, that you will not be able to buy sell or trade with out it... is that computer chips well we have been testing them on our dogs and pets...?

At the end of the day you are modern day slave to the system and that keeps the pupeteers in power who control the governments which in turn control you. You think you have freedoms well think again. If you have true freedom you would be able to go anywhere in the world without a passort without big brother watching and manipulating you, You would be able to have your needs met (yes the resource based ecomony based Jacque Fresco ideas.) the earth has the resources to cloth, house, and put food in the stomach of every living creature out there including every man woman and child. But greed is stopping that.

But then again I know nothing so I shuddup as I am just a simple man with a simple life... oh and rides a bike :) since this is a bike forums :doh:

Nothing will change as long as "we" continue to believe there is a "them"!

The mind of the man in the mirror is all we have control of and it is all that we need, unless we hand it over to "them", then we are doomed to continue as we are!

In truth there is no "them" unless "we" individually and collectively decree it to be so! :shifty:

mashman

15th April 2010, 13:17

In truth there is no "them" unless "we" individually and collectively decree it to be so! :shifty:

For me, the collective "them", at the moment, is the government. That's the first (and probably only) thing that connects everyone in NZ and that's where we expect our direction. I have an idea for an experiment, but fear it will never happen because of the closed minds and their utter reliability on money. There may well be other echelon's of government, but if you can only name them and not physically see them. who do you ask?

Edbear

15th April 2010, 13:18

And you're how old Ed. An active mind the key to a long life you say. Then you have plenty of time to exercise it for the betterment of mankind/humanity/everyone have it any way you like... you are a reasonable man aren't you? Is it just a shift in thinking? Can you be the same person you are now, but in a society without a financial system?

I'm only 52 mate, and yes there is time should I wish to pursue such things. Trouble is as most of us recognise, we need to work most of our time merely to survive, and at my age I am effectively having to start all over again after years of ill health and minimal income. I'm doing now what I did 30 years ago and have to do again rather than being freer to pursue other interests as I should be.

I'm not sure we need a non-financial system, the Israelites managed one very well with restitution laws and laws that made things fair for all. People have different educational and skill levels and different interests, with some being gifted in certain areas, so human nature is diverse and some will always be able to do much better than others, leading to economic disparity. But if you look at history, particularly Israelite history and look at the fiscal laws they lived under, you can see how an economic society could function in a fair way.

Just changing th egooberment does nothing they are all puppets of the same pupeteer... if you want real change get rid of the pupeteer... Why is it 1% control over 60% of the earths resources when its not really theirs in the first place but belongs to every one and every entity on this planet and has to be shared freely.

This will add me to a few block lists, and probably a few red whats its, but who cares... the bible and the beast, "the beast is money itself..." (I see is as clear as daylight) and that is what we have been fighting all along... The head of the beast the pupeteers, the bankers and others corporates which many are now starting combine in with and controled by the various goverments which becomes Facisms, the US is more Facist than most countries now, and look at where all Hitlers scientists went with Project Papaer Clip... ? (no I am not religious was just bought up in a religous family, but I know the stories) If we want real change then fight the beast, and the real pupeteers.. or else it will just stay the same with a new face and then we say welcome to the New World Order.

Every major organised religion is all controlled by the Luminati (yes including them... who you are thinking enemy). The Luminati controls the secret groups, the Freemasons, the Stone Cutters, the Builderburg Group, The Owls, The Skull & Cross bones blah blah blah the Luminati is control by the... Vatican. All you have to do is follow the money all leads back to the Vatican.

Money causes greed, which causes hate, anger etc..."money the root of all evil." Was at work the other day and something went wrong, was going to cost us more money... and the boss said "Thats the nature of the beast." Then add in the prophecy the mark of the beast, that you will not be able to buy sell or trade with out it... is that computer chips well we have been testing them on our dogs and pets...?

At the end of the day you are modern day slave to the system and that keeps the pupeteers in power who control the governments which in turn control you. You think you have freedoms well think again. If you have true freedom you would be able to go anywhere in the world without a passort without big brother watching and manipulating you, You would be able to have your needs met (yes the resource based ecomony based Jacque Fresco ideas.) the earth has the resources to cloth, house, and put food in the stomach of every living creature out there including every man woman and child. But greed is stopping that.

But then again I know nothing so I shuddup as I am just a simple man with a simple life... oh and rides a bike :) since this is a bike forums :doh:

Hmmm.... The Scripture actually says it is the love of money that causes all manner of injury and evil things and that by "reaching out for this love" people have "stabbed themselves all over with many pains". The scriptures also point out the obvious that, "a lover of silver will not be satisfied with silver neither a lover of money with income".

So yes, greed is a big factor and people are not satisfied with what they have. Humans are designed to progress, to learn, to explore and advance, but it is human nature that selfishness dominates to the point that "Man has dominated Man to his injury". We also live in fractious times with no consensus as each tries to put their own "stamp" on proceedings and vehemently fight for their cause rather than accede.

Iraq is a classic example of what you say. No-one can argue that things were well under Saddam with evil on a grand scale in the country, but by the same token, what has "freeing" the nation from tyranny resulted in?

Every time a nation is "freed" from tyranical rule, it descends into anarchy and civil unrest. Yes their is more to it.

mashman

15th April 2010, 13:27

I'm only 52 mate, and yes there is time should I wish to pursue such things. Trouble is as most of us recognise, we need to work most of our time merely to survive, and at my age I am effectively having to start all over again after years of ill health and minimal income. I'm doing now what I did 30 years ago and have to do again rather than being freer to pursue other interests as I should be.

I'm not sure we need a non-financial system, the Israelites managed one very well with restitution laws and laws that made things fair for all. People have different educational and skill levels and different interests, with some being gifted in certain areas, so human nature is diverse and some will always be able to do much better than others, leading to economic disparity. But if you look at history, particularly Israelite history and look at the fiscal laws they lived under, you can see how an economic society could function in a fair way.

Hmmm.... The Scripture actually says it is the love of money that causes all manner of injury and evil things and that by "reaching out for this love" people have "stabbed themselves all over with many pains". The scriptures also point out the obvious that, "a lover of silver will not be satisfied with silver neither a lover of money with income".

So yes, greed is a big factor and people are not satisfied with what they have. Humans are designed to progress, to learn, to explore and advance, but it is human nature that selfishness dominates to the point that "Man has dominated Man to his injury". We also live in fractious times with no consensus as each tries to put their own "stamp" on proceedings and vehemently fight for their cause rather than accede.

Iraq is a classic example of what you say. No-one can argue that things were well under Saddam with evil on a grand scale in the country, but by the same token, what has "freeing" the nation from tyranny resulted in?

Every time a nation is "freed" from tyranical rule, it descends into anarchy and civil unrest. Yes their is more to it.

Sorry to hear that Ed. The reason people lust after money more and more is because someone keeps revaluing it, as well as the enough is never enough greed stuff! That's why money will never work... And where are the Israelites now? and why didn't the world adopt their model of a financial system if it was so perfect?

Edbear

15th April 2010, 13:42

Sorry to hear that Ed. The reason people lust after money more and more is because someone keeps revaluing it, as well as the enough is never enough greed stuff! That's why money will never work... And where are the Israelites now? and why didn't the world adopt their model of a financial system if it was so perfect?

Sokay, I am grateful that I wake up every morning. I should have been dead at least three times now, but I am proof that only the good die young, or you can't kill weeds, or something. Or I'm just too stubborn to die... :innocent: I open my eyes, feel my body is functioning and say, "Well, so far, so good!" :sunny:

Even the Israelites abandoned it. Trouble is that not only does there need to be fair laws, their needs to be both the will and the authority and power, to implement and enforce the laws.

As long as the Israelites worked in harmony with the laws, they prospered, when they abandoned the laws, - and yes, for selfish reasons - their economy and their societal structure suffered.

So finding a consensus of will and the knowledge to implement effective legislation that allows the nation to prosper, and then have the authority and power to enforce such is why the world is in such dire straights. All men are equal and frail, and lack the wisdom and power to act effectively. Even rulerships marked by relative peace and economic stability have only lasted a short time.

scissorhands

15th April 2010, 13:49

Fresno has a new testament for life.

He could be described as a prophet

Edbear

15th April 2010, 14:34

Fresno has a new testament for life.

He could be described as a prophet

Or an idealistic dreamer..? Albeit a highly intelligent one.

mashman

15th April 2010, 15:00

Or an idealistic dreamer..? Albeit a highly intelligent one.

What makes a prophet?

Edbear

15th April 2010, 15:06

What makes a prophet?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other senses of this word, see Prophet (disambiguation).
Not to be confused with Profit.

Prophetic inspiration: In religion, a prophet is an individual who has been contacted by, or has encountered, the supernatural or the divine, and serves as an intermediary with humanity, delivering this newfound knowledge from the supernatural entity to other humans.[1][2] The message that the prophet conveys is called a prophecy.

Claims of prophets have existed in many cultures through history, including Judaism, Christianity, Islam, the Sybilline and Delphic Oracles practices in Ancient Greece, Zoroaster, the Völuspá in Old Norse, and many others. Traditionally, prophets are regarded as having a role in society that promotes change due to their messages and actions.

In the late 20th century the appellation of a 'prophet' has been used to refer to individuals particularly successful at analysis in the field of economics, such as in the derogatory 'prophet of greed'. Alternatively, social commentators who suggest escalating crisis are often called 'prophets of doom.'[3][4

Edbear

15th April 2010, 15:07

Just popping out for a while, back soon.

mashman

15th April 2010, 15:33

scissorhands

15th April 2010, 16:02

The idea that knowledge or ideas or even feelings, can be transmitted to another is not totally without merit.

Esoteric studies touch on who is the self, and how much is actually a product ( not to be confused with prophet or profit) of environment, star given qualities and genes.

Fresno's body mind and head shape certainly looks to be like Gandi (who achieved as a lawyer before becoming a holy man) and his global impact is just as large.

Hes made it on the news in NZ, but time is on his side, agewise. I know some communal cyclists always squatting or sharing space cheaply. A little bit precious with the holier than thou typical reaction to having a beer that wasnt home brewed, but the intentions are okay.

Perfectly timed with the recession, its about time we all worried less about money.

Edbear

15th April 2010, 16:32

... its about time we all worried less about money.

LOL!!!! I do agree! I look at the things that we are told we need, and I look tat the price and decide I can do without them.

Helps to actually have most things already, and that the issue is whether we need or want to update. I have no ego to stroke, so I'm happy to drive vehicles that are '93, '94, '99 vintage. I'm happy with the Pulsar as it is so cheap to own and does what we need that I see no reason other than vanity to update it. The MX5 is a series one but it is cheap fun and again, only vanity would deem it necessary to get a later or "better" sports car. The old Toyota Estima is handy as only an 8-seater van can be and cheap to insure. Again, only vanity would dictate it's passe.

The bike,? I hope to keep it forever, if I can avoid having to part with it at present. Business growth means I could do with the money at the mo.

When we were first married, ('77), we were young and had little and wanted everything our older friends had immediately. So we did the wrong thing and booked ourselves up into debt, never had any money to go anywhere and it took many years to get ourselves off the debt-wagon! Now I prefer to be able to put gas in an older vehicle and go somewhere rather than worrying how we're going to make the next HP payment!

scissorhands

15th April 2010, 16:42

When we were first married, ('77), we were young and had little and wanted everything our older friends had immediately. So we did the wrong thing and booked ourselves up into debt, never had any money to go anywhere and it took many years to get ourselves off the debt-wagon! Now I prefer to be able to put gas in an older vehicle and go somewhere rather than worrying how we're going to make the next HP payment!

Sadly this is true for many young families. If Fresno can even Awake a few families to get off the commodifying, capitalising, corporatising,, castigating, castrating bus, and live freer lives, in my book hes a bloody legend

Edbear

15th April 2010, 16:48

And the Yaqui Indians do the same thing using peyote and some dance into a trance, some maybe just need to exercise their mind and who's to say that when the "bolt hits", that that bolt wasn't from "somewhere/someone" else... if it's that far out of the box, as some have levelled at me for instance, then why are there so many other individuals that think in so many different ways, with completely different personalities, that all come to the same conclusion? Except they're not promoting religion. they're promoting humanity as a solution instead of money... Anyway, shamen/Prophets, Do they say that "inspiration" comes to them in dreams? Either way, it matters not wether he's a Prophet to me, he's not, but your Prophet definition fits this man to a tee. 50,000,000 "believers" in the "concepts" that he is "talking" about.

I think we have time, don't you.

Time is not really the biggest issue, or rather it is pressing and urgent, but it is the reason we're running out of time that is the real issue.

His ideas have merit and would make a huge difference to the world if enough took them on board and acted upon them. But when we look at the state of the planet over history we see a steady decline in world standards, health and security and the environment. We depend upon the delicate balance of nature for our very existence yet we are destroying it faster than it can recover. While there is argument about whether Global Warming is man-made or a natural cycle the destruction of man's environment including the seas is definitely being done by mankind.

Some scientists are of the opinion that it is too late already and the food chain is dying from the bottom up and it is now merely a question of how long before the seas die. I have done a lot of research on the sea and the science is scary. There is evidence that the film, The Day After Tomorrow, is actually happening right now.

mashman

15th April 2010, 17:24

We still have the same issue in common at the heart of these things you're talking about... The bulk of the destruction comes from doing it for profit. If you at least want to give the planet a chance, or at least prepare for "doomsday", then you'd better start thinking about ditching money pretty damn quickly, because when it turns to shit, i'd rather have a nation full of "emergency service trainees, engineers, scientists (chemistry physics maths etc...), care givers and on and on instead of a bunch of bankers, finance guys, accountants and on and on again... No money, more people being able to look after more people. Money, the amount of people looking after people that money will allow.

the outcome is always the same... innovation crippled by financial constraints... just ask NASA... and it's the people that will suffer for it if they ever start again.

Why are our politicians not discussing things like this?

Edbear

15th April 2010, 18:08

Basically it's not money that is the problem, it's like guns. Guns are only lethal in the hands of those who choose to use them and only kill humans when the user fires at humans.

Money, like a gun, is inanimate and unable to harm anyone. It is a human problem and taking money out of the equation only replaces one means of dominance for another.

I personally like the idea of pooling resources, using each person's abilities and strengths for the communal good and when done with altruistic motive, has been shwon to work near miracles. We see altruism in the medical field with doctors, nurses and surgeons - eg: the Fred Hollows Foundation. So it can be done regardless of money where there is the will to do so.

mashman

15th April 2010, 20:12

Sadly this is true for many young families. If Fresno can even Awake a few families to get off the commodifying, capitalising, corporatising,, castigating, castrating bus, and live freer lives, in my book hes a bloody legend

Absolutely.

Money, like a gun, is inanimate and unable to harm anyone. It is a human problem and taking money out of the equation only replaces one means of dominance for another.

Ok, so guns don't kill people, people do. What's the most common use for a gun other than livestock etc...? and someone had to pay for that gun to be made. they aren't free you know.

mashman

15th April 2010, 20:17

I personally like the idea of pooling resources, using each person's abilities and strengths for the communal good and when done with altruistic motive, has been shwon to work near miracles. We see altruism in the medical field with doctors, nurses and surgeons - eg: the Fred Hollows Foundation. So it can be done regardless of money where there is the will to do so.

If your foundations suddenly lost funding from their benefactor, I dare say they'd be singing a different tune. Mainly because of the harm that would be caused to those who end up paying for it when the services just stop.

puddytat

15th April 2010, 20:32

mashman

15th April 2010, 20:51

If there's one place we could do it still it'd have to be here in NZ.....
Personally I dont think its going to happen anytime soon.It should have started years ago.
Our only chance now is to pull up anchor & sail furtha away.Abit like the office workers sailing off in "the Meaning of Life"
Is there time ? .....I think not.
Unless we close the borders & lob a BIOBOMB "over there" we havnt got a chance.
I need more medication....

Agree with the NZ thing... if there's gonna be critics, you can bet your arse they'll be leaping out of the woodwork to let you know about it... we're not radicals.
I think there is time though and I think it could be done if you used NZ. You just need to plan it. but sooner rather than later. which means public education. I reckon a 2 year education should give a good enough idea of wether it could work or not.

puddytat

15th April 2010, 21:13

Yup , I reckon we need to stamp our feet,do something completely differnt .....Make a point of differance from the rest & say right, you lot are on a road to nowhere & we aint going to follow.Go with this sustainable thing & bring back some morals......A bit like the 20/20 things my mates in the greens suggested.:dodge:

To me , profit also involves someone losing.....& thats about 90% of us.:whistle:

NighthawkNZ

15th April 2010, 21:19

There is evidence that the film, The Day After Tomorrow, is actually happening right now.

Dig deep enough on the NASA website, and it shows that all the planets in the solar system are going through the same change... (which tells me the sun is up to something) but since they can not tax you on that they don't make public and hide it deep with in the site but still accessable... this way they can say well we didn't hide the info (and don't ask me to find it as it would take me ages to to relocate it, and the site has changed that much now... it was in some report (and I have lost my book marks :( ) I was shown the link about 4 or 5 years ago...

NighthawkNZ

15th April 2010, 21:29

Yup , I reckon we need to stamp our feet,do something completely differnt .....Make a point of differance from the rest & say right, you lot are on a road to nowhere & we aint going to follow.Go with this sustainable thing & bring back some morals......

If 1/3 of the earths population said "NO MORE" then the powers that be listen, and start to tighten their grip. If 50% said "NO" then they would know they are losing and start the bad shit... if 90% said "NO.." there would be nothing they could really do... that simply includes the armed forces also saying "No..." so they have no power... if 6 billion said no to the 1 million in power... whats side would you want to be on.

It is us who given them that power through fear and control us allowing them to manipulate us... just like in Star Wars (yes me a geek of Sci Fi) The Jedi's hide there fear, and anger... and as Luke is in front of the <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"> <m:smallfrac m:val="off"> <m:dispdef> <m:lmargin m:val="0"> <m:rmargin m:val="0"> <m:defjc m:val="centerGroup"> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440"> <m:intlim m:val="subSup"> <m:narylim m:val="undOvr"> </m:narylim></m:intlim> </m:wrapindent><style>  </style> Emperor the </m:defjc></m:rmargin></m:lmargin></m:dispdef></m:smallfrac><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"> <m:smallfrac m:val="off"> <m:dispdef> <m:lmargin m:val="0"> <m:rmargin m:val="0"> <m:defjc m:val="centerGroup"> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440"> <m:intlim m:val="subSup"> <m:narylim m:val="undOvr"> </m:narylim></m:intlim> </m:wrapindent><style>  </style> Emperor </m:defjc></m:rmargin></m:lmargin></m:dispdef></m:smallfrac><m:smallfrac m:val="off"><m:dispdef><m:lmargin m:val="0"><m:rmargin m:val="0"><m:defjc m:val="centerGroup">says "release your anger and hate..." and you see the </m:defjc></m:rmargin></m:lmargin></m:dispdef></m:smallfrac><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"> <m:smallfrac m:val="off"> <m:dispdef> <m:lmargin m:val="0"> <m:rmargin m:val="0"> <m:defjc m:val="centerGroup"> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440"> <m:intlim m:val="subSup"> <m:narylim m:val="undOvr"> </m:narylim></m:intlim> </m:wrapindent><style>  </style> Emperor </m:defjc></m:rmargin></m:lmargin></m:dispdef></m:smallfrac><m:smallfrac m:val="off"><m:dispdef><m:lmargin m:val="0"><m:rmargin m:val="0"><m:defjc m:val="centerGroup">feed off it...
</m:defjc></m:rmargin></m:lmargin></m:dispdef></m:smallfrac>

Edbear

15th April 2010, 22:29

Absolutely.

Ok, so guns don't kill people, people do. What's the most common use for a gun other than livestock etc...? and someone had to pay for that gun to be made. they aren't free you know.

Like I said, it's a people problem. Take money out of it and those who crave power, prestige and wealth, would substitute. People need basic necessities and the power hungry would seek to control those necessities as they do now. Society needs laws and regulations and the greedy will continue to seek ways to flout the law or to use it to their advantage. Witness countries without money and wealth, and corruption and oppression are rife as are prejudice and class distinctions.

If your foundations suddenly lost funding from their benefactor, I dare say they'd be singing a different tune. Mainly because of the harm that would be caused to those who end up paying for it when the services just stop.

The Fred Hollows Foundation is a group who volunteer their time and their skill at no charge and pay out of their own pockets to operate on the poor in the South Pacific who need eye surgery yet will never be able to access such of their own accord. It is true altruism and unselfish action by genuinely concerned people.

Dig deep enough on the NASA website, and it shows that all the planets in the solar system are going through the same change... (which tells me the sun is up to something) but since they can not tax you on that they don't make public and hide it deep with in the site but still accessable... this way they can say well we didn't hide the info (and don't ask me to find it as it would take me ages to to relocate it, and the site has changed that much now... it was in some report (and I have lost my book marks :( ) I was shown the link about 4 or 5 years ago...

There is increased Sunspot activity, that is one factor, and the permafrost in Siberia has begun to melt. It is unstoppable and is releasing huge amounts of greenhouse gases that will affect the atmosphere. As I said, the global warming phenomenon may or may not be significantly affected by man's activities, but regardless, it is happening and yes, some will make profit from it. Again it is down to greed and short-sighted selfishness.

Who was it who cut down the last tree on Easter Island forcing the evacuation of it as no longer sustainably inhabitable? Didn't they know that cutting down the trees would lead to that? Didn't they see the destruction of the very environment they depended upon? Why didn't they stop and find an alternative that would allow them to remain there? Man is destroying the rainforests at the rate of a football field every second. So far, 90% of the forestation has been destroyed and no-one is going to stop it until it is all gone.

TV3 did a story a while ago showing satellite imagery of how much has gone. Scary stuff! Back in the early days of space exploration, astronaughts commented on how the Earth looked truly like a jewel in space, now they say it is a dirty looking jewel, nowhere near as pristine as it was 40years ago. Don't underestimate the ability of mankind to destroy himself.

Edbear

15th April 2010, 22:32

... Ok, so guns don't kill people, people do. What's the most common use for a gun other than livestock etc...? and someone had to pay for that gun to be made. they aren't free you know.

If your foundations suddenly lost funding from their benefactor, I dare say they'd be singing a different tune. Mainly because of the harm that would be caused to those who end up paying for it when the services just stop.

Dig deep enough on the NASA website, and it shows that all the planets in the solar system are going through the same change... (which tells me the sun is up to something) but since they can not tax you on that they don't make public and hide it deep with in the site but still accessable... this way they can say well we didn't hide the info (and don't ask me to find it as it would take me ages to to relocate it, and the site has changed that much now... it was in some report (and I have lost my book marks :( ) I was shown the link about 4 or 5 years ago...

Absolutely.

Ok, so guns don't kill people, people do. What's the most common use for a gun other than livestock etc...? and someone had to pay for that gun to be made. they aren't free you know.

Like I said, it's a people problem. Take money out of it and those who crave power, prestige and wealth, would substitute. People need basic necessities and the power hungry would seek to control those necessities as they do now. Society needs laws and regulations and the greedy will continue to seek ways to flout the law or to use it to their advantage. Witness countries without money and wealth, and corruption and oppression are rife as are prejudice and class distinctions.

If your foundations suddenly lost funding from their benefactor, I dare say they'd be singing a different tune. Mainly because of the harm that would be caused to those who end up paying for it when the services just stop.

The Fred Hollows Foundation is a group who volunteer their time and their skill at no charge and pay out of their own pockets to operate on the poor in the South Pacific who need eye surgery yet will never be able to access such of their own accord. It is true altruism and unselfish action by genuinely concerned people.

Dig deep enough on the NASA website, and it shows that all the planets in the solar system are going through the same change... (which tells me the sun is up to something) but since they can not tax you on that they don't make public and hide it deep with in the site but still accessable... this way they can say well we didn't hide the info (and don't ask me to find it as it would take me ages to to relocate it, and the site has changed that much now... it was in some report (and I have lost my book marks :( ) I was shown the link about 4 or 5 years ago...

There is increased Sunspot activity, that is one factor, and the permafrost in Siberia has begun to melt. It is unstoppable and is releasing huge amounts of greenhouse gases that will affect the atmosphere. As I said, the global warming phenomenon may or may not be significantly affected by man's activities, but regardless, it is happening and yes, some will make profit from it. Again it is down to greed and short-sighted selfishness.

Who was it who cut down the last tree on Easter Island forcing the evacuation of it as no longer sustainably inhabitable? Didn't they know that cutting down the trees would lead to that? Didn't they see the destruction of the very environment they depended upon? Why didn't they stop and find an alternative that would allow them to remain there? Man is destroying the rainforests at the rate of a football field every second. So far, 90% of the forestation has been destroyed and no-one is going to stop it until it is all gone.

TV3 did a story a while ago showing satellite imagery of how much has gone. Scary stuff! Back in the early days of space exploration, astronaughts commented on how the Earth looked truly like a jewel in space, now they say it is a dirty looking jewel, nowhere near as pristine as it was 40years ago. Don't underestimate the ability of mankind to destroy himself.

mashman

15th April 2010, 22:56

Dig deep enough on the NASA website, and it shows that all the planets in the solar system are going through the same change... (which tells me the sun is up to something) but since they can not tax you on that they don't make public and hide it deep with in the site but still accessable... this way they can say well we didn't hide the info (and don't ask me to find it as it would take me ages to to relocate it, and the site has changed that much now... it was in some report (and I have lost my book marks :( ) I was shown the link about 4 or 5 years ago...

I like to have a watch on this every now and then... get some amazing cosmic events on video, if you haven't seen it that is. http://www.solarcycle24.com/

mashman

15th April 2010, 23:07

Like I said, it's a people problem. Take money out of it and those who crave power, prestige and wealth, would substitute. People need basic necessities and the power hungry would seek to control those necessities as they do now. Society needs laws and regulations and the greedy will continue to seek ways to flout the law or to use it to their advantage. Witness countries without money and wealth, and corruption and oppression are rife as are prejudice and class distinctions.

Put it this way. If the power hungry try to get to the top of the heap for their own gain at the cost of another, in a finalncial free society with robust laws and no money, they will find power hard to come by. Money keeps people occupied... and not for their own good either.

The Fred Hollows Foundation is a group who volunteer their time and their skill at no charge and pay out of their own pockets to operate on the poor in the South Pacific who need eye surgery yet will never be able to access such of their own accord. It is true altruism and unselfish action by genuinely concerned people.

Truly good on them. shame there arent many may many many more like them.

We may well have the capacity to destroy the planet, but somewhere a line has to be drawn and those who would like a crack at sorting society out should be allowed. Or at the least allow society to be better prepared for the beatings that "mother nature" will throw at us.

Pixie

16th April 2010, 08:04

Edbear

16th April 2010, 08:16

No point in discussing an alternative economic system.
This civilisation will come to an end,just as all previous civilisations have.

And it will not be through war, but by some innocuous cause,like a flu epidemic, that prevents the world's truck drivers going to work for a week.

Could be of many causes. However as devstating as a flu epidemic or other sickness would be, that wouldn't be enough to wipe out a civilisation. If you monitor the world's trend over the past few hundred years, what is happening is increasing anarchy and civil unrest. People are becoming more reactionary and violent and less tolerant. People are less concerned with external matters and more concerned with self. Society is becoming more introverted.

Much as with the Roman empire, it was the breakdown of society and unity that led to its downfall. Only this time it is the whole world, not one nation. It's global and affects everyone, everywhere. New Zealand and Australia are insulated to a degree you wouldn't understand until you have a good look at Europe and the UK, the African continent and the USA. Talk to people from Germany, the Middle East, and Douth Africa and see what is happening there and you'll begin to appreciate just how serious the situation is. We don't know we are alive here.

mashman

16th April 2010, 09:25

Could be of many causes. However as devstating as a flu epidemic or other sickness would be, that wouldn't be enough to wipe out a civilisation. If you monitor the world's trend over the past few hundred years, what is happening is increasing anarchy and civil unrest. People are becoming more reactionary and violent and less tolerant. People are less concerned with external matters and more concerned with self. Society is becoming more introverted.

Much as with the Roman empire, it was the breakdown of society and unity that led to its downfall. Only this time it is the whole world, not one nation. It's global and affects everyone, everywhere. New Zealand and Australia are insulated to a degree you wouldn't understand until you have a good look at Europe and the UK, the African continent and the USA. Talk to people from Germany, the Middle East, and Douth Africa and see what is happening there and you'll begin to appreciate just how serious the situation is. We don't know we are alive here.

I came from the UK 3 odd years ago. I understand what you're talking about and it we are doomed, i'd rather have a shot at a life without the influence of money... something that has never been tried before. The reason there's so much discord these days is because there are a shitload more of us. And that shitload are not part of that top 3 percent. To a certain degree the hostility is all towards the have's and this is seen as jealousy (sorry, i'm talking modern day and my experience is actually talking to people) by those have's. In all honesty the looking into the past only shows us that a financial system doesn't work.

Don't knock it til you've tried it... but we won't try it because the MINORITY, won't let us, because they can't see how it can be done. If that's the case then your children and your grandchildren and their kids blah blah will feel the full impact of a MINOIRTY that wants nothing more than money. We have screamed for equality for how many years? And you inow see before you 4 or 5 guys, on a bike forum, that believe they can do things "smarter". We can do it, I have no doubt, but will the politicians allow us to do it? Probably not because there's no money involved is the cynics way out, but I think they won't because they know it'll work.... they're not stupid after all. But how do your rouse a country into doing things a different way without MONEY??? you can't. So in my eyes, money trumps human innovation, warps human attitudes, brainwashes those that think it can't be done without money. Bullshit? No, I live with such a person. Her heart is mine, but her mind is hers and I haven't been able to change it. I have a theory as to why though. It's because she uses it every day with 3 kids to look after, she budgets the household and cannot conceive of being able to do that without money.

I understand what you mean about humans and power and influence and greedetc... but we all promote greed. You see it on this site nearly every day when people say, study hard, you can be what you want, if you don't have enough, educate yourself and go and get MORE... we encourage greed because we all realise that to get MORE, in this day and age, means long hard hours in the pursuit of MORE MONEY. What a waste of a human life and all of the resources it consumes, let alone the sacrifices made by their families... perhaps that's why kids are the way they are today... they don't get the attention they used to get. The lack of comprehension in this area leaves me stunned to my core. It's obvious that every day life cannot be conducted without money and it rules over that day even with it being an inanimate object, perpetuated by business searching for profit and individuals believing that their skills are that much better than yours or mine that they should be paid what we earn in a lifetime, but for a single years work. That's why people are pissed off Ed, that's why they've always been pissed off, even in Rome... I don't blame humans for it, because it's all they know, it's all they've ever known and the real scary thing is that intelligent people refuse to understand that and go and blame it on human weakness... that's a cop out of Epic proportions, file it in the too hard basket because you can't change people's minds and attitudes...

My name is Gordon, I am an ex sufferer of GovernMental Stockholm Syndrome... BUT I seem to be getting better as the days tick by...

NighthawkNZ

16th April 2010, 11:27

Could be of many causes. However as devstating as a flu epidemic or other sickness would be, that wouldn't be enough to wipe out a civilisation

The Illuminati want to cull the population to under one billion people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones (That would forefill many said <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"> <m:smallfrac m:val="off"> <m:dispdef> <m:lmargin m:val="0"> <m:rmargin m:val="0"> <m:defjc m:val="centerGroup"> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440"> <m:intlim m:val="subSup"> <m:narylim m:val="undOvr"> </m:narylim></m:intlim> </m:wrapindent><style>  </style> Prophecies )

Whistle blowers say they the Illuminati have been trying to use viruses to cull the population.. Aids, Swine flu, avian flu etc... Then they come in with the cure... but apparently the cure they give enhances the flu and you die anyway... and those that get the good cure get a chip so you buy sell and trade... and before you know it we only have 500 million survivors... (then other conspiracies go in to chem trails which is supposidly doing the same thing to your immune system). The survivors are in their underground bases which are through out the world.

However then you again go to prophecy and religion and all that, that they will be cast to the pit the deeps of the earth... if you are in an underground base and get enclosed in there... bugger

</m:defjc></m:rmargin></m:lmargin></m:dispdef></m:smallfrac>Whistle blowers real or crack pots? don't know... real info or dis-info... again don't know... but standing back looking at the whole picture nothing would suprise me... So start looking at the big picture... things look differently, step back from that and the bigger picture things looks different again... try looking at the whole picture and nothing suprises you and is not what you see in front of you know<m:smallfrac m:val="off"><m:dispdef><m:lmargin m:val="0"><m:rmargin m:val="0"><m:defjc m:val="centerGroup">. The lie is different on every level.

So... Was 9/11 a black flag operation so they could go to war on terror (terror caused by them) follow the money and thats the way it looks when you do follow the money. The control demolition of the towers, it could not have been done better... signs of thermite, knowing avation fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt the steel but thermite does. the images of of smaller explosions just before each layer compacts, the images of the steel that has a clean slice (thermite), building 7 wasn't hit, and wasn't realy anywhere near the towers...why did that colapse in a controled manner. There is no signs of any aircraft in the wreckage...? was it a cruise missle and the those that caught the plan on film part of the plot and before the release of the film it is digitally edited and then sent to fox...? the live feeds... were they really live? not a pre-recording

All this so they can go to war on terror (which in reality doesn't really exsist, except for the powers that be.) so they can expand it to cull... follow the money, step back for your one pixel point of view and take a look at the whole picture... and question everything... if the gooberment want to put up ACC what else are they doing while you are distracted... most likely taking away your personal rights and freedoms.

conspiracies good fun... :yes:
</m:defjc></m:rmargin></m:lmargin></m:dispdef></m:smallfrac>

mashman

16th April 2010, 11:59

lots of stuff

Slightly OT - but, i'm curious as to why terrorists attack us these days?

NighthawkNZ

16th April 2010, 12:07

Slightly OT - but, i'm curious as to why terrorists attack us these days?

aren't we all???

if you live in fear of a terrorist attack then they (the powers that be) can controll you easier in the matter of national security to protect your freedoms by slowly taking them away... The yanks put Saddam Husien in power give him the weapons for his army to fight Iran...(just as they did with hitler) now it was know that Saddam had doubles did they truly get the real one or a double and Saddam is now living in an underground base in the States ??? yep conspiracies fun...

But why apparently they don't like our freedoms, and our religon and because we are honkies I don't know... they come up with any excuse... yet you met the average person on the street in Iran or Iraq and they would feed you look after you if you were in trouble the average person is over there is getting feed a different but the same lie from the same people... yep conspiracies fun...

mashman

16th April 2010, 12:17

NighthawkNZ

16th April 2010, 12:23

I suppose there are plenty of reasons... Would love to ask them why... ya know, see if there's a common ground that woiuld allow us all to lay down our sticks and just get on with life. I must be losing my marbles to want to listen to the grievances of terrorists/freedom fighters... everyone else just seems to want to continue the "war"... But i would still like to hear it from the horses mouth.

We do have comman ground... we are all human... we all live on the same planet... we all want peace... problem is the powers that are so called in control want something different and that is world domanance... New World Order... Dawn of the new age, Dawn of a new world, (every president has said something similar since the 40's in there first speech) The dawn... the rising sun... Japan and the rising sun... hmmmmm the signs are there and have always been there... they are all controlled by the same pupeteers... (see now I sound like the nut drap job :lol: )

Terrorist or freedom fighter... depends on your point of few...

mashman

16th April 2010, 12:51

mashman

16th April 2010, 12:59

We do have comman ground... we are all human... we all live on the same planet... we all want peace... problem is the powers that are so called in control want something different and that is world domanance... New World Order... Dawn of the new age, Dawn of a new world, (every president has said something similar since the 40's in there first speech) The dawn... the rising sun... Japan and the rising sun... hmmmmm the signs are there and have always been there... they are all controlled by the same pupeteers... (see now I sound like the nut drap job :lol: )

Terrorist or freedom fighter... depends on your point of few...

Perhaps the thread should have been Titled "The Cuckoo's Nest"...

Wether it's the NWO plan coming to fruition or not. Our government is our government. We could choose to replace it by peaceful force if neccesary, but we don't out of respect for each and every individual in the country. Unfortunately these indivuduals are well and truly brainwashed into thinking that life without a financial system can't work... I call bullshit. Tribes in Rainforests, tribes in the chinese mountains, tribes in deserts etc... there are those who live very happy lives, cooperating for an existence without a financial system.

So what's the problem NZ... Cat got your tongue? Already filed in the too hard basket?

NighthawkNZ

16th April 2010, 13:48

Perhaps the thread should have been Titled "The Cuckoo's Nest"...

Wether it's the NWO plan coming to fruition or not. Our government is our government. We could choose to replace it by peaceful force if neccesary, but we don't out of respect for each and every individual in the country. Unfortunately these indivuduals are well and truly brainwashed into thinking that life without a financial system can't work... I call bullshit. Tribes in Rainforests, tribes in the chinese mountains, tribes in deserts etc... there are those who live very happy lives, cooperating for an existence without a financial system.

So what's the problem NZ... Cat got your tongue? Already filed in the too hard basket?

Totally agree... (on all points including cookoo :lol:) . but htere is no point just voting them out and being replaced withe same people but different mask... to make change happen you have to get the financial system to fail (that may be easier than you think because (the cookoo NWO) want the same thing and then become our rescuers with the new system but not the one we want... the one they have in plan and which is still a monitory system... money, credit, to buy sell or trade is a form of control and power in any sense.

Our money is not even real it is not backed by gold or siler or anything it is just a credit system.

The best way is so show people it is possible to live and be truly free with out any form of money to get rich so you have more power and status to control... to wake them up from their we dream land and show them the real world... yes the Matrix... ;) and the symbology of the battery what they got turned into... Power... power to control.... the machines = the system we are in... very symbolic (as most sci-fi movies are...)

Then again I been saying this crap all my life so I am just a crap pot that rides a motorbike... :D

oldrider

18th April 2010, 01:10

Our money is not even real it is not backed by gold or siler or anything it is just a credit system.

I think you will find that it is a "debt system", rather than a "credit system".

Every new $dollar created, is created as an "interest bearing debt", a debt considerably larger than that originally intended!

The only thing backing the new (interest bearing) dollar created is the ability of the borrower to produce goods and services.

Because of the interest bearing debt is larger than the cost of the goods and services produced, consumption is therefore impossible!

New money is only needed to increase production, the only reason for any production, is consumption!

If there is not enough money in circulation to balance production and consumption, the system is flawed.

That is why we continue to experience wars booms and busts in our economies!

The controllers of the situation manipulate need and exploit the impending greed.

Because we do not collectively understand what is happening, we become fearful of our future and for that of our loved ones.

The controllers use media to exploit and spread the fear and divide us by offering conflicting solutions of their own making.

In the confusion the masses fight amongst themselves and cement the controllers firmly in charge, to the detriment of everyone!

A and B fighting for the benefit of C. (where "C" equals "controller")

You gotta hand it to them, they play us like puppets on a string and we defend them like a drunk defends his bottle!

Money system's should be the servant of it's people, not the people being servant to the system! :shifty:

NighthawkNZ

18th April 2010, 01:43

I think you will find that it is a "debt system", rather than a "credit system".

Every new $dollar created, is created as an "interest bearing debt", a debt considerably larger than that originally intended!

The only thing backing the new (interest bearing) dollar created is the ability of the borrower to produce goods and services.

Because of the interest bearing debt is larger than the cost of the goods and services produced, consumption is therefore impossible!

New money is only needed to increase production, the only reason for any production, is consumption!

If there is not enough money in circulation to balance production and consumption, the system is flawed.

That is why we continue to experience wars booms and busts in our economies!

The controllers of the situation manipulate need and exploit the impending greed.

Because we do not collectively understand what is happening, we become fearful of our future and for that of our loved ones.

The controllers use media to exploit and spread the fear and divide us by offering conflicting solutions of their own making.

In the confusion the masses fight amongst themselves and cement the controllers firmly in charge, to the detriment of everyone!

A and B fighting for the benefit of C. (where "C" equals "controller")

You gotta hand it to them, they play us like puppets on a string and we defend them like a drunk defends his bottle!

Money system's should be the servant of it's people, not the people being servant to the system! :shifty:

basicallywhat been saying all along really and hence why i have always Hated the system... :yes::blink:

mashman

18th April 2010, 20:06

A and B fighting for the benefit of C. (where "C" equals "controller")

You gotta hand it to them, they play us like puppets on a string and we defend them like a drunk defends his bottle!

Money system's should be the servant of it's people, not the people being servant to the system! :shifty:

Irrespective of who/m the "controller/s" is/are, which I find plenty disturbing that the entity could and most probably does, it takes a lot to sway a human mind doesn't it? we're not that gullable are we? We're all in control of our own lives and are beholden to no person?