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250learna
19th May 2005, 01:09
no this might seem a bit stupid, but realy much like attraction to the opposite sex, fall from a bike is very likely to happen.
Now what is the best way to go... i know theres a lot of different ways you can come off, and i know that you might not be able to fall like you want, but can i have some advice on what to do and what not to do.
For instance i herd that if im going to land on the front i should tuck my arms in, and resist the natural reaction to put them out.
any other advice out there?

Bob
19th May 2005, 01:20
Best thing you can do? Relax.

To be honest, if you go down, you're not really going to have time to think "Oh, it appears I am going to land on my front, I really must lift my head, slide on my chest and not put my hands on the floor".

What goes through your head is going to be more along the lines of "Whathefugginhellwasthatandwhyamisliiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiidingalongtheflooreeeEEEEEEEk!"

But if you relax, you are more likely to come out of it relatively unscathed.

Perfect example? A drunk. Watch a drunk fall over - they are fully relaxed and so shrug off the impact, get up and stagger on down the road, looking for their next drink. Same thing with a baby - they've not learned fear yet, so they are relaxed and tend to bounce safely a lot more than the rest of us.

justsomeguy
19th May 2005, 01:27
Try to just go limp and relax all your muscles........

Like they say in martial arts : When you fall be like water not stone. Translation - relax and just go with the flow

Zapf
19th May 2005, 01:30
How I fell:
Last time I fell, it was a low side. As the front had washed out. I put my elbows out in front / arms up with inside facing me as I was pretty much going face down. Speed around 60~70km/h.

What was I wearing:
Wearing a A* one pce suit with external elbow armor. Usual helmet / back protector / gloves / boots.

Result:
Landed elbow down, no marks to the helmet what so ever. External elbow armor took care of the sliding, however left elbow into the ribs from impact and fractured / bruised 2 ribs. after sliding face down started to roll, hips became the contact point and so slight small bruises in the hips, thanks to padding in the suit that helped a lot. Scraped the shit out of the knee sliders and marked the leathers at the knees / hips and aero hump on the back. I believe the hump also prevented my helmet / head from touching the ground when I was rolling.

So main contact point (listed in how marked the leathers are): Elbows, Knees, hips, palm, aero hump

Improvements:
Buy vest with chest armor

John
19th May 2005, 01:31
How the hell do you all relax in a crash, I'm sort of worried that I am going to die in most of them, so relaxing isnt nearly as important as trying avoid dangers while rolling/flying.

Brian d marge
19th May 2005, 01:52
[QUOTE=Bob]Best thing you can do? Relax.


Relax ...when u think u have stopped count three.......

During the slide offer as MUCH surface area to the road ( what your wearing shorts .... :eek: )
try not to tumble ..... If you lose the back end you can slide ...but if you park it into a car try and launch before the bike hits ...good luck though ...most mortals have the death grip on the bars ,,,)

Finally Go Racing ( insert another plug for MX ) ,,,you can practice falling off untill your little hearts content .... it can hurt ....

Not content with stuffing a bike into a tailgate of truck ... try mx free style ... there you will find all the excitement and joy of the simple english phase ..... ouch that hurt ....

Finally try not to fall off in the first place , as even in racing ...1 its expensive ....2 ,,,it hurts ....3 ....you come dead last ....( there is no trade mark on the work or action of dead )

Kind regards
Stephen :D

justsomeguy
19th May 2005, 04:22
How the hell do you all relax in a crash, I'm sort of worried that I am going to die in most of them, so relaxing isnt nearly as important as trying avoid dangers while rolling/flying.

After that first millisecond when you realise you've lost it you just go with it........and hope it finishes fast.......no straight answer actually........

Two Smoker
19th May 2005, 07:23
Well i think ive got alot of experience in this field...

Highside: Your fucked and cant react at all due to it being so violent...

Lowside: As people say, relax, dont try and stand up when you think you are going slow enough to walk (you generally arent) i tend to just slide along on my thighs and back... You can use your hands (when sliding along on back/ thighs) to steer you abit, helps when your heading for a post :niceone:

Sparky Bills
19th May 2005, 08:38
Who needs arms anyway, They are highly over-rated :killingme

What everyone else said...
Relax, and make sure you have actually stopped and checked yourself before standing up.

NordieBoy
19th May 2005, 08:39
As people say, relax, dont try and stand up when you think you are going slow enough to walk (you generally arent)

Keith Code said it as well. Something like "Don't stand up untill the earth and sky havn't swapped places or moved for about 10 seconds"

Fryin Finn
19th May 2005, 08:41
Buy a dirt bike. Get out when it's muddy. You will fall off heaps and learn a whole lot of things you will never learn on a road bike. :niceone:

vifferman
19th May 2005, 08:45
On my right side (8 times); on my left side (once); DunnoItHappenedTooFast (once), on my hand (and then followed up with my head) - once.
Oh - this doesn't include dirtbike crashes, cause they don't really count. Apart from that one time when it fell into the electric fence...

Motu
19th May 2005, 08:48
I gotta disagree with Bob here,at least for me anyhow.I go into a slow mo thing (well,I used to,haven't tested the theory for a few years) and have plenty of time to watch what's happening and make decisions.On a low side I like to slide on my back or side,you can control youself using your elbow/forearm to stop a spin so you can see where you're going...head up (never hit my helmet on the deck yet),feet up (boots dig in) and hands up,but arms down for control.

Get away from the bike,it's heavy with more momentium than you and has sharp pointy out bits,you don't want to be near it when it hits something.You don't want it running you down - I remember once spinning down the road,I passed my bike...but then saw I was going to go in front of it and it would come over me...so I reach up,grabbed the bike and pushed myself away,then I went behind the bike over to the otherside.Don't stand up too soon,there is a time distortion going on,you feel like you have been slidding for ages - you put your boots down to stand up and launch into the air....I just do a foward roll and start slidding again.Once going backwards I put my hands over my shoulders and did a rear handspring onto my feet - oh,isn't youth a wonderful thing.

I haven't done many highsides - but a shoulder tuck is best,then on your back and slide.Once I stayed on the bike and it went over top of me,that was a nice highside.For a head on one trick I was told was to push down on the bars,with loose hands - this will launch you into the air and over the car.The only time I had to try it was off road and my weak arms collapsed and I bit dirt with my face.

Best advice is don't fall off,I'm trying that one now,seems a good idea to me....

TonyB
19th May 2005, 09:19
Sorry Bob, but I have to disagree as well. I'm with Motu- everything slows down and when I think through it later, a ridiculous amount of thoughts and information have been through my mind in the split second I have to react. I haven't had an off for years (touch wood), but when it has happened I make a concious descision to fall in a way that doesn't involve sticking my hands out- more rolling from the forearm and onto the shoulder then onto the back and keeping the head from hitting the road.
There have been two exceptions to this:
Once when I fell on oil on the Lewis Pass only a few weeks into my learners. All I remember is thinking "wow, the bikes leaning a long way". Then "hey, where did the bike go??". Then I was sliding on hands, knees and face on the road. So I flipped around to be on my back sliding feet first.
The other was when a car pulled out infront of me on a slight bend in the rain. I was convinced I was going to hit. Then theres a blank bit (ie- I have no idea what happened) and I found myself on the other side of the car, still on my bike, with a very sore back. I have no idea what happened or how I got around the car. I wish I did, must've been a neat trick- would be handy to know what it was!

John
19th May 2005, 09:24
In only one/two crashes I managed to stay conscious after leaving the bike, so I cant really give an insight, normally when I leave the bike I'm there for the ride.

Pwalo
19th May 2005, 09:36
Don't even think about falling off. I know that sometimes it can/will happen, but I don't think you should ever be consciously thinking about falling off.

The only times I've fallen off have been low sides on black ice (twice), wet painted manhole cover (didn't see it as it was obscured by the car in front of me), and a high side when I was nudged by a car.

I honestly don't think I could have saved any of these, but I sure as hell tried, and didn't think about falling. Actually I can't remember anything about the high side, and it ws the only time that I've visited hospital in the back of an ambulance.

Sorry a bit long winded, but my point is that you can't/shouldn't prepare for a crash. I've saved front and rear end slides (just managed to avoid having to change my underwear) and scared myself silly, but I never think about crashing, only how I'm going to save things.

Sh%t that sounds so bloody sanctimonious. Sorry chaps.

XP@
19th May 2005, 11:55
Yeh... not falling is the best way to save yourself!
when the sh1t hits the fan your planned response will kick in.

if you have practiced your emergency responses then you will do what you have planned.
By allmeans plan to relax when you fall, but you should train this response to kick in when you are in the air.
Your first plan should be to do the appropriate remidy for the situation, alter direction, max effort break (NOT PANIC BREAK), tighten grip, look where you want to go...

"practice makes permanent" if you practice falling off, even in your head, fall off is what you will do!

Waylander
19th May 2005, 12:11
Yea if you just relax Things usually turn out ok. Launching before you hit a car is a good idea but you should make sure that you dont have any other choice other than to hit it. As for what goes through you mind when crashing, not sure about others but for me it's nothing. Mutter an oh f*ck just before it happens and then just nothing. Still concious and all but I know that whatever happens I can't do anything to change it at that point so I think nothing.

Wenier
19th May 2005, 15:07
Not falling off is always the best, but always push away from the bike like Motu said, even if your sliding after the bike at a distance that can be good. Reason it can be good is if theres a fence which ya'd slide into and your following the bike, if ya lucky your bike will remove the fence meaning you dont have to nail into it. Thats only good if your not going off a cliff or into a bank of course.

loosebruce
19th May 2005, 17:44
How the hell do you all relax in a crash, I'm sort of worried that I am going to die in most of them, so relaxing isnt nearly as important as trying avoid dangers while rolling/flying.

When you crash as often as say i do, it kinda becomes oh well here we go again, you're kinda wondering what parts are being broken on your bike and yourself for that matter, how much it'll cost you this time. But in all my cases i've been the cause of my mis haps, never been involved with anyone else, although me and the TL tried to catch up to death in my latest effort.

Advice dont cheap out on your gear, not a Cordura fan at all, each to there own but you can't get better than leather. Try not to crash is always a good start, but when it does and it probably will, yeah relax, push away etc all things covered already, but i guess its a hard thing to do when you hitting the road for the firts time at speed. maybe buy a shitter and jump off it a few times, i dunno, it's an experiance thing i guess.

Ixion
19th May 2005, 17:53
I gotta disagree with Bob here,at least for me anyhow.I go into a slow mo thing (well,I used to,haven't tested the theory for a few years) and have plenty of time to watch what's happening and make decisions...

Ditto on the slow motion thing. Part of the brain seems to start processing data far faster than it can be put into words.

Doesn' t work for too many people though, and I've not met a psychologist yet that will admit it exists

Drew
19th May 2005, 18:05
When you crash as often as say i do, it kinda becomes oh well here we go again, you're kinda wondering what parts are being broken on your bike and yourself for that matter, how much it'll cost you this time. But in all my cases i've been the cause of my mis haps, never been involved with anyone else, although me and the TL tried to catch up to death in my latest effort.

Advice dont cheap out on your gear, not a Cordura fan at all, each to there own but you can't get better than leather. Try not to crash is always a good start, but when it does and it probably will, yeah relax, push away etc all things covered already, but i guess its a hard thing to do when you hitting the road for the firts time at speed. maybe buy a shitter and jump off it a few times, i dunno, it's an experiance thing i guess.


I gotta agree with bruce. He does crash a hell of a lot :killingme

LED
19th May 2005, 20:38
no this might seem a bit stupid, but realy much like attraction to the opposite sex, fall from a bike is very likely to happen.
Now what is the best way to go... i know theres a lot of different ways you can come off, and i know that you might not be able to fall like you want, but can i have some advice on what to do and what not to do.
For instance i herd that if im going to land on the front i should tuck my arms in, and resist the natural reaction to put them out.
any other advice out there?

Dude if you have the capacity in a crash to work out how you are going to fall I advise that you put that capacity into avoiding binning it in the first place. Believe me that sort of advice is gold - stay safe. :niceone:

k14
19th May 2005, 20:50
Yeah agree with motu and tonyb about the slowing down. I can remember spinning past teh front wheel of my bike and seeing a puff of smoke from it sliding along the tarmac. I also did the try to get up when you're still doing 20kph, not advisable. Don't put your palms down on the road to slow you down cause unless you have the $300 ones then they are going to be ripped to shreds (my $200 alpinestars got shot to bits on my lowside at the track, was going pretty slow aswell).

Best advice is lye on your back and admire the view. Well for a track crash anyway, haven't really had one on the road which has been a slow mo.

Bob
19th May 2005, 21:19
Slow motion in crashes? I've had it happen both ways.

When Mr Nissan Sunny pulled out on me, I went totally slow-mo. I seemingly had ages to realise it was too late to avoid impact, knew instinctively to relax every muscle and prepared myself to go flying over the bonnet.

That said, I don't actually remember going over the bonnet, forward rolling on the floor, flipping to my feet and picking up the bike!

Another time, when I was going downhill in the wet and braked too hard too fast (own fault, mind wandered for a moment and suddenly I needed to brake), all I knew was one moment I had a bike underneath me, the next I was sliding along the floor on my front.

But to be honest - and getting back to the original point - the best advice has to be don't crash in the first place! If you're a newish rider, then the experience base that kicks off that "Bikers Sixth Sense" isn't there yet - so why not go on some advanced training if you're concerned? Every little piece of skill learned through experience or training is going to make your life easier - and hopefully will mean you do not get into a situation where you are risking hitting the ground in the first place.

Just an idea.

John
19th May 2005, 21:23
When you crash as often as say i do, it kinda becomes oh well here we go again, you're kinda wondering what parts are being broken on your bike and yourself for that matter, how much it'll cost you this time. But in all my cases i've been the cause of my mis haps, never been involved with anyone else, although me and the TL tried to catch up to death in my latest effort.

Advice dont cheap out on your gear, not a Cordura fan at all, each to there own but you can't get better than leather. Try not to crash is always a good start, but when it does and it probably will, yeah relax, push away etc all things covered already, but i guess its a hard thing to do when you hitting the road for the firts time at speed. maybe buy a shitter and jump off it a few times, i dunno, it's an experiance thing i guess.
I think I might be a mini bruce in the making - when I know I'm going to crash, I think quickly how bad its going to be, then try avoid it the best I can i.e if guarenteed death - I've avoided death 2 times this year by just using my head while still attached to the bike, then I just hold on for the ride, I've had about 8 crashes this year, I wont even try count offroad crashes they arent so bad, becuase the bike just about always is sweet.

250learna
19th May 2005, 22:58
well im a lifeguard (@a pool mite do surf next summer tho :D ), its not the most dangerous job, but you get your share of adrenaline when theres lots of lil ones. Everytime theres someone in serious trouble i get a shot :niceone:
thats exactly what you boys are describing, time slows down, many thoughts and decesions in a split second, you notice things in more detail etc

now the best thing is when i dont have to go trough with the rescue...for that split second of inside panic :sweatdrop , the warmth spreads trough the body :shit: and it feels sooooooooooo good then for next few moments you enjoy one of the best sensations your body can offer.

ofcourse it happens to you for many different reasons, but this is the most common one for me

thanks for all the advice :ride: ride on! :ride:

justsomeguy
19th May 2005, 23:57
maybe buy a shitter and jump off it a few times, i dunno, it's an experiance thing i guess.

yerrrrrrightttt:no:


well im a lifeguard (@a pool mite do surf next summer tho :D ), its not the most dangerous job, but you get your share of adrenaline when theres lots of lil ones. Everytime theres someone in serious trouble i get a shot :niceone:
thats exactly what you boys are describing, time slows down, many thoughts and decesions in a split second, you notice things in more detail etc

now the best thing is when i dont have to go trough with the rescue...for that split second of inside panic :sweatdrop , the warmth spreads trough the body :shit: and it feels sooooooooooo good then for next few moments you enjoy one of the best sensations your body can offer.

ofcourse it happens to you for many different reasons, but this is the most common one for me

thanks for all the advice :ride: ride on! :ride:

Great thing that adrenaline... innit????????:yes: :yeah:

Wenier
20th May 2005, 11:14
I've had about 8 crashes this year, I wont even try count offroad crashes

If you've had 8 crashes already this year, i would be questioning why your still riding. 8 seems way to many for one person in half a year, what are ya doing to do that.

John
20th May 2005, 11:20
If you've had 8 crashes already this year, i would be questioning why your still riding. 8 seems way to many for one person in half a year, what are ya doing to do that.
Most on the ZZR trying to get used to not riding a dirt bike - and a few low speed drops, I kept trying to explore the wrong backroads.

On the ZXR had no problems until the dog incident, had done about 4000km on it.

Wenier
20th May 2005, 11:30
Ah well that sounds alright then. You try to offroad a zzr. That would be a great mission, those bikes are whales.

Ixion
20th May 2005, 11:36
Ah well that sounds alright then. You try to offroad a zzr. That would be a great mission, those bikes are whales.

I ride THE WHALE. The Great White Whale. And it's actually quite good on gravel. Not off road though because trying to weave something so wide and ponderous through trees would be a mission. Not to mention the 600 odd pounds weight. But on gravel roads it's OK once you get over the initial unease at taking on a gravel road on something that suddenly feels as big as a Mack truck.

Pixie
20th May 2005, 11:45
Try to fall down.Up will eventually result in breathing difficulties.
Let you muscles go limp,if you forget,though,a tree or some other solid object will probably help you do this.
If it was some moron that made you crash,and you're conscious,try to remove you helmet and insert it into the individual.

Flyingpony
20th May 2005, 13:50
I've had about 8 crashes this year, I wont even try count offroad crashes they arent so bad, becuase the bike just about always is sweet.

We're six months into the year. What are you doing? That's far too many on-road crashes.

I haven't crashed in over 5yrs. In that time I've had a couple very close calls on wet roads under emergency brakes, but managed to regain control of my wayward beast.

John
20th May 2005, 14:48
We're six months into the year. What are you doing? That's far too many on-road crashes.

I haven't crashed in over 5yrs. In that time I've had a couple very close calls on wet roads under emergency brakes, but managed to regain control of my wayward beast.
Please read the entire thread for an answer.

Wolf
20th May 2005, 14:57
The other was when a car pulled out infront of me on a slight bend in the rain. I was convinced I was going to hit. Then theres a blank bit (ie- I have no idea what happened) and I found myself on the other side of the car, still on my bike, with a very sore back. I have no idea what happened or how I got around the car. I wish I did, must've been a neat trick- would be handy to know what it was!
Yep. Know what you mean - one moment the van in front of me was a looming wall of red metal, the next I was on the line between the lanes with cars zooming by to my left and a wall of red metal to my right (that my pillion was pounding the shit out of) I was going too slow for the gear I was in and the bike was wobbling (from the aforementioned pounding) and I had no idea how I got there - especially since I was relatively inexperienced and I had a pillion on the back affecting braking, balance etc. I put it down to my subconscious mind taking control of the situation and the good manoeuvrability of a trail bike.

My first lowside I don't recall falling but I found myself "gently" sliding along the road on my right elbow with my helmet off the ground, left hand trailing along beside me bouncing over the uneven surface, boots doing like wise, bike skidding tranquilly along on its side following me like a puppy and then the bottom of my tacho slowly cartwheeled past me. i had a nice leisurely time to contemplate all sorts of things and wonder at the spectacle of my errant tacho making a break for freedom.

I'm going to get jumped on here because I am going to claim I deliberately dropped a motorbike to avoid hitting something and apparently "nobody" ever does that.

I turned of Normandy Ave onto Cobham Drive, heading Southish, pissing rain, roads well and truly awash - way beyond any worry of Diesel or oil but into hydroplaning territory - and with my girlfriend at the time on the back.
I had just come off the lights and as the road was wet and visibility was poor I was taking it slow - had not even got up to 40km/h.

Further along Cobham Drive, in the no stopping area, a van was stopped. I presumed it must have be out of commission as they were stopped (silly assumption, I know, I know) I foolishly did not properly assess the hazard (inexperienced, preoccupied with the rain) and did not slow down or otherwise take precautions against the van. Now doing about 40km/h. Without signalling, the van U-turns in front of the bike.

Everything went slow-motion, and my mental provcess went along the lines of "I cannot stop in the distance between me and the van - not two-up in the wet - I would skid but still hit the van anyway." (NB This was back when I used only the rear brake as I had binned twice using the front brake and feared it.) "If I jam on the brakes too hard I risk dropping the bike. If I hit the van, we could be killed, but if I drop the bike we should slide to a halt long before we get to the van."

My biggest worry was that the cars behind us would fail to react to us falling fast enough to avoid hitting us.

So, trading on the experience of a couple of previous fuck-ups involving corners, gravel and front brakes, I jammed on the front brake and abruptly twisted the front wheel to the left slightly to nudge it out of line.

We went down as predicted (with me thinking "there goes $80" - referring to the army surplus great-coat I was wearing) and slid to a halt while the van went on his merry way, bike slid to a halt behind us. The cars behind us stopped without hitting us or the bike. I confirmed we weren't seriously injured (pretty well kitted up, Colleen's glove wore through so she had a bit of minor road rash on one hand), the woman from the first car came up and asked if we were all right, the guy from the second car came up and said "Fuck you laid that down well."

Van stopped at lights so I hightailed it across the road, banged on passenger door (first bit o' clear thinking), drippy looking blonde says "we didn't need that, we didn't need that" in a spaced out/wasted kinda way that seemed sorta surreal at the time and I could feel reality slipping away, drippy looking bloke in drivers seat turns to stare at me with weird look on his face then the lights change and they drive off. I got their rego number and returned to the bike (fat lot of good it did me tho')

I now suspect the "vehicular emergency" that had these two Dorklanders (I traced the rego) illegally parked on Cobham Drive was the need to blaze up a spliff or drop a tab...

But yeah, I deliberately dropped the bike after a leisurely-seeming (it wasn't in reality) weighing-up of the options available to me at the time.

If a similar situation presented itself today, would I do the same thing? No. I would not make the same assumptions about the illegally parked van, I would be prepared for the likelihood of it U-turning without warning, I would reduce speed to give myself better reaction time, position myself better on the road to increase reaction time and options, and (if the U-turn happened) I would use the slo-mo period to explore other options and focus on slowing and avoiding - I brake better now (I now use both brakes, not only the rear brake out of fear of the front brake as I did back then) and I have a lot more experience in emergency manoeuvres. So yes, if I had been better experienced I would not have dropped the bike - I've certainly avoided worse since then.

Once prior to that I was going wide in gravel and had a stand of trees looming up I deliberately dropped the bike to avoid them - but then my thought processes were "Fuck, I don't wanna hit those, abandon ship!" so I applied the front brake and braced myself to hit the track. I was lightly grazed and I ripped the muffler off the pipe of my TS.

Each time I've been in an accident/near-accident situation, I've had the slo-mo thing happen, I've been able to see what's coming and make decisions based on it - I haven't always made the right decisions, but the opportunity was at least there for me to squander...

Zed
20th May 2005, 15:31
no this might seem a bit stupid, but realy much like attraction to the opposite sex, fall from a bike is very likely to happen.
Now what is the best way to go... i know theres a lot of different ways you can come off, and i know that you might not be able to fall like you want, but can i have some advice on what to do and what not to do.
For instance i herd that if im going to land on the front i should tuck my arms in, and resist the natural reaction to put them out.
any other advice out there?You probably won't have enough time to actually *think* about much when you fall off your motorcycle, but during the event if you could try and make sure that you distance yourself from the bike as much as is possible you would save yourself some damage. Also, if you wear a back protector of some kind you would do well to try and land/slide on that. When I binned last year I managed to find a split second to manoeuvre myself on to my back protector and slide for about 10 metres...as I slid I thought "phew I'm saved" until I hit the bank and cartwheeled several times! :bye:

James Deuce
20th May 2005, 15:33
With as much grace and style as possible.

If you can't do that you can tumble like a rag doll, screaming like a 6 year old girl having a head rush from too much super cold sno-freeze, like the rest of us do.

Motu
20th May 2005, 16:20
If ever a guy knew how to crash it would be Evel Knievil - apparently every bone in his body broken atleast once.....ok,authors licence,but I bet he's done a big one more than all on this site times 10.Back before we had internet and invasive reporting - a big wake up call for me to wear good gear and not crash was seeing his fall at Ceasars Palace - poor quality film,but the bike comes down and he just rag dolls down the ramp,limbs flying in all directions...then his Harley comes down and goes through him like a rotary hoe through the washing...scary shit,and proof that even if you know how to crash very well,you're not gunna get it right every time.

250learna
21st May 2005, 00:22
If ever a guy knew how to crash it would be Evel Knievil - apparently every bone in his body broken atleast once.....ok,authors licence,but I bet he's done a big one more than all on this site times 10.Back before we had internet and invasive reporting - a big wake up call for me to wear good gear and not crash was seeing his fall at Ceasars Palace - poor quality film,but the bike comes down and he just rag dolls down the ramp,limbs flying in all directions...then his Harley comes down and goes through him like a rotary hoe through the washing...scary shit,and proof that even if you know how to crash very well,you're not gunna get it right every time.

bit off topic, how da hell did you get that bloody pingu score :brick:

inlinefour
21st May 2005, 00:27
Hitting things is what hurts. Get away from the bike, or any other vehicle involved.
Wear good riding gear, if you don't then your a knob :nono:
If your going to push the limits, then do it where there are no other road users. If you crap off yea you might lie there a while but you will not hurt anyone else.
Oh and FFS, don't relax and go limp. The more thought and control put into an off can result in less injury and damage to the bike. Always hit the kill switch on the bike as you go down... :niceone:
And most important, try to stay upright! :ride:

Bob
22nd May 2005, 01:56
Hitting things is what hurts. Get away from the bike, or any other vehicle involved.
Wear good riding gear, if you don't then your a knob :nono:
If your going to push the limits, then do it where there are no other road users. If you crap off yea you might lie there a while but you will not hurt anyone else.
Oh and FFS, don't relax and go limp. The more thought and control put into an off can result in less injury and damage to the bike. Always hit the kill switch on the bike as you go down... :niceone:
And most important, try to stay upright! :ride:

Yup, I'd go with the riding gear - the best you can afford.

But as for "don't relax and go limp" - are you kidding? OK, if you're still on the bike and have a chance of saving it, then you don't do the 'rag doll' thing. But once you're off? Hopefully you're away from the bike, so you go as limp as you possibly can. Loose, relaxed limbs will take punishment. Tense, rigid limbs tend to break.

There is an old saying about drunks and hangovers - push a drunk out of a 1st floor window and they will pick themselves up, dust themselves off and then go looking for their next drink. Do it to someone with a hangover and you will be up in court for murder. Drunks just go limp. Hangover sufferers are tense and stiff. Same with riding a bike - if you are relaxed, then it handles better. If you are stiff, it translates into the handling.

Have you ever watched a racer when they come off? If they can, they are on their back, relaxed and just sliding along the ground. And, as someone else mentioned here, when they come to a stop, they stay there for a little bit longer, gathering their thoughts and making sure they really have stopped sliding!

And lets face it, a racer knows more about crashing - and more importantly, how to come out of one with as little damage as possible - than any of us "mere mortals".

XP@
22nd May 2005, 09:19
And lets face it, a racer knows more about crashing - and more importantly, how to come out of one with as little damage as possible - than any of us "mere mortals".
A racer has no concerns about trees, cars, trucks, armco, cheese slicers, curbs and potholes...

RiderInBlack
22nd May 2005, 11:57
As for fall control I'd go with what Motu said here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=241763&postcount=13.
The on-your-back-arms -out-hands-on-chest-head-up-feet-first method as saved at least one of my biker mates:

"Pilgrim had come down for the March Hare Rally and was on way out of Arrowtown on his brand new Wide Glide that morning when he found some fu*ken diesel left on a corner by some d*ckhead. He reckons it was lucky that he had recently done a bike course, which included instructions on how to fall properly. As he and the bike parted company, he rolled onto his back, head raised, elbows out, legs apart and facing the direction of his sliding. It was a right-hand bend so it shot him off the road (the diesel greasing the way). He had to close his legs on the way to flatten a road marker (road markers in the nuts at that speed would not been a good look!). He reckoned his next piece of luck was being slowed down by a blackberry patch (only Bur-Rabbit would have been keener to be thrown in to the brier patch). No broken bones and hardly a bruise! Five other bikers had found that diesel that day and they all went visiting the local hospital!"

If your heading for a fence try to put the bike ahead of you, stay on your back with you leg in front. Fence wire is like a cheese cutter very at low speeds. My Brother has had the missfortune to come accross a decappitated biker that had joined the "Fencing Club".


Ditto on the slow motion thing. Part of the brain seems to start processing data far faster than it can be put into words.

Doesn' t work for too many people though, and I've not met a psychologist yet that will admit it existsThe Slow-Mo thing. You'll probably found it written in a few Medicial Journals. I can not be fart-arsed looking it up in my Nursing Med books, but adrenaline does increase your metabolic rate (heartrate increases, etc) so you would be thinking faster (like too much caffine), therefore time relative to you whould seem to slow.

Skyryder
22nd May 2005, 22:04
When/if the time comes you will instinctively know what to do. If you have to think it will probably be too late.

Skyryder

sunhuntin
23rd May 2005, 00:56
When/if the time comes you will instinctively know what to do. If you have to think it will probably be too late.

Skyryder

have to agree there. i dropped the 'zuki on one of my lessons. i was riding on grass that was freshly mowed, took a corner too hard and lost the back wheel. i dont know what exactly happened, but i remember thinking "shit, what do i do now???" and then thinking over what id read about getting away from the bike. i went one way, forced the bike another and stopped fine. i was on my back, listening to the engine scream, thinking i should get up and stop that....but not wanting to move yet.
i mentally checked my body for injury, found none and just started laughing.

my body relaxed essentially as soon as the back wheel went out, maybe i jumped, or fell away or something, i did roll, but not much. results of that little incident were:

bike: bent fender [front], broken mirror, hand brake, bent foot brake.
me: minor bruising and scratches and grass all through my jacket
mother earth: one huge gouge out of the ground that was wedged under the front fender. :whistle:

if and when you do take a spill, you will instinctivly know what to do. your mind will resort to "primative thinking" where survival was everything and will do what it has to to try and keep you safe. :ride:

FROSTY
23rd May 2005, 02:11
can a worms this one.
ive been lucky??? enuff to crash heaps on the racetrack (mostly buckets)
In a totally unavoidable headon -standup legs slightly bent hands relaxed as possible. Hopefully the impactr will pitch you up and over the car you just hit rather than down into the instrument panel and fairing.
In a highside or a lowside--yep ragdoll it as much as you can
ohh and if you crash on turn 8 of piecock hill--make sure you pach a parachute first.

Will
23rd May 2005, 07:21
if and when you do take a spill, you will instinctivly know what to do. your mind will resort to "primative thinking" where survival was everything and will do what it has to to try and keep you safe. :ride:


I don't agree with that. I think that our brains can trick us and we have to train them on what action is required in certain situations.
Do the Ride Right Ride Safe course.
Read Bike Rider Magazine issues #18 and #19 atleast.

Been riding for about 30 years now. Have fallen off my bike while off-road, and have dropped my cbr 600 only when I couldn't reach the ground ( am touching wood here because I haven't yet on my latest cbr 600) but I have never had any accidents.

And I aim to keep it that way. :ride:

So I am always retraining myself. Have done the RRRS course organised by Ulysses, a track day at Taupo that was organised through Bike Rider, and practising and playing little games when it is appropriate.

So I guess my message is to not assume that you will instinctively know what to do.

Safe riding out there. :niceone:

Edit: Sorry, I see you are in Wanganui (my birth place) and I don't know what is available in the way of training courses.

TonyB
23rd May 2005, 08:14
"Pilgrim had come down for the March Hare Rally and was on way out of Arrowtown on his brand new Wide Glide that morning when he found some fu*ken diesel left on a corner by some d*ckhead. He reckons it was lucky that he had recently done a bike course, which included instructions on how to fall properly. As he and the bike parted company, he rolled onto his back, head raised, elbows out, legs apart and facing the direction of his sliding. It was a right-hand bend so it shot him off the road (the diesel greasing the way). He had to close his legs on the way to flatten a road marker (road markers in the nuts at that speed would not been a good look!). He reckoned his next piece of luck was being slowed down by a blackberry patch (only Bur-Rabbit would have been keener to be thrown in to the brier patch). No broken bones and hardly a bruise! Five other bikers had found that diesel that day and they all went visiting the local hospital!"

Which begs the question- after the first rider went down, why the hell didn't someone mark it, spray paint a warning on the road or SOMETHING! FIVE bikers??!!! If they all went down in seperate accidents, then the last 3 or 4 have a right to be highly pissed off.

NC
23rd May 2005, 18:18
Just relax...

When I highsided I relaxed and ened up having a very safe landing :D

I did a bit of stunt work a few years ago, relaxing and try and roll across your shoulders. It reduces the risk of a broken back

ZorsT
23rd May 2005, 18:24
Just relax...

When I highsided I relaxed and ened up having a very safe landing :D

I did a bit of stunt work a few years ago, relaxing and try and roll across your shoulders. It reduces the risk of a broken back

What do you mean by "rolling across your shoulders"?

Is that where you roll with your shoulders on the ground, not your {insert body parts here} ???

RiderInBlack
23rd May 2005, 20:01
Which begs the question- after the first rider went down, why the hell didn't someone mark it, spray paint a warning on the road or SOMETHING! FIVE bikers??!!! If they all went down in seperate accidents, then the last 3 or 4 have a right to be highly pissed off.This happen on the road into Arrowtown. Yep Pilgram was mighty pissed off that the diesel had not been mark (he was not the first bike to find it). After a good kick in the bum, the local PC and Road Works dealt to the spill and made some attempt to track the wanker that had spilt it. The point was, that because he had been tought how to fall properly he received less injuries. The other bikers were not so lucky.

Moral of the the story was:
Learning how to fall properly increases your chances of survival and decreases you injuries. Expecting your body to know what to do in an accident without training is for the foolish.

Yarg
23rd May 2005, 20:41
before crashing , beware of target fixation. Look where you want to go and lean some more.
If head on is unavaidable stand up , legs bent and hope the impact will pitch you over the obstacle.
then what they all said b4.

Skyryder
23rd May 2005, 20:53
There are so many variables in an accident that to try and dertermine the correct course of action to take in any given circumstance is nigh on impossible.

I define an accident occuring at point of impact.

There are situations where either loss of control or observation will give some warning of impending impact. In both cases it is possible that reflex or training (experiance) will enable the rider to minimise the crash impact. The training experiance may assist the reflex action to protect from injury.

Having said that once you have departed from your bike, you are in effect a missile in trajectory and as such have very little say in the final outcome.

Whilst knowing how to fall is usefull, I am however of the opinion that the bodys reflexes are critical in minimising injury wherever possible.

If you see something that is going to injure you, you protect yourself by either getting out of the way or putting up some kind of barrier. This does not require thought as instinct in these circumstances are enough for self preservation.

Skyryder

XP@
23rd May 2005, 21:39
Just remembered... if you want to fall properly go learn judo and then go skiing.
I went A/T last night down a 3m bank and came off with a small bruise.
I anylised what happend and looks like i used lessons ski and judo to end up in a controlled heap in the grass.

Skyryder
24th May 2005, 19:05
Just remembered... if you want to fall properly go learn judo and then go skiing.
I went A/T last night down a 3m bank and came off with a small bruise.
I anylised what happend and looks like i used lessons ski and judo to end up in a controlled heap in the grass.

When thrown in Judo the judoka is taught to tighten the body so that it is rigid as the body hits the mat, which is the complete opposite of being relaxed. Ihave never been on a safty course and been taught how to fall but a relaxed body will have arms and legs flailing about all over the place.

Skyryder

XP@
24th May 2005, 21:21
When thrown in Judo the judoka is taught to tighten the body so that it is rigid as the body hits the mat, which is the complete opposite of being relaxed. Ihave never been on a safty course and been taught how to fall but a relaxed body will have arms and legs flailing about all over the place.

Skyryder
y'ok remind me...

in judo when you are falling you are preparing for impact.
the preparation is tucking your head and leading shoulder inso you hit the mat back / shoulder first with a bit of a bang. then roll on to your back. It dosent really hurt (unless it is an ogoshi and someone is still stood on your foot (spiral fracture tibia and fibia))
you then open up to stop the roll and prepare for the next attack.
In the bike fall you are going a lot faster and probably not going to stop rolling or sliding, so you may have to do the same again. Especially if you are in the process of high-siding, i've done this twice on grass (within about 3 mins) the second time the bike skidded to where i landed, but i had already landed and rolled out of the way.

Lee Rusty
29th May 2005, 21:33
not to fall off in the first place. If you think your going to you are half way down

myvice
19th June 2005, 20:36
Crashing can hurt, not as it happens but usualy later, I try to relax and go with it but what matters more than the "off" is the end resualt... I lost a mate many years ago when a car did a u turn in front of him, I wasnt there but he did the text book "lock rear wheel and look where you want to land" bike drop and slide. Bike went into car. another driver swerved to miss the rebounding bike and killed him as he slid down the road. So the point to this is that he was one of the most natral and smoth riders out there but shit can happen, so get good gear, ride lots, and when/if it happans, be prepared. eg good tyres, brakes ect. But dont stay awake at night worrying about it. And the last person who asked me "What if you fall off?" Was told " I'll hit the fucking ground, then you ya fucking jinx!"

Jackrat
19th June 2005, 21:31
Hmmm,last time I came off I remember nothing until I came to in the ditch and had the pleasure of watching my own blood flowing down the drain,not to mention the pain.
Time before that,a few years earlier I hit diesel/petrol spill an washed out the front at about 50 km.I hit the road on my shoulder,rolled onto my back an spread my arms.My sheep skin flying jacket acted like a big brake pad an stopped me in about five meters or so.
I then got up picked up my mirror an carryed on to work like nothing had happend.I don't think,at lest for myself anyway,that I have a lot of choice in the matter so if I can I'd just TRY to do the same again.
Having said that,I now apply Lee Rustys approach an plan not to do it again.
An yes Veronica,I do belive I have a choice in that.

knight rider
4th March 2006, 20:37
If you know your coming off try to roll insted of sliding. As you slide you will grase your gear. If you roll you'll be lucky to have a scratch on you. I learnt that one from a friend

FROSTY
5th March 2006, 09:22
Dude with all due respect to ya mate--hes talking shit.
If you crash -this is the time your gear earns its keep
Ya can't actually predict how you are gonna crash but in the "ideal" world you wanna do the starfish. Sliding along on your back feet first.

jonbuoy
5th March 2006, 10:21
Who needs arms anyway, They are highly over-rated :killingme

What everyone else said...
Relax, and make sure you have actually stopped and checked yourself before standing up.


Very good advice - don't even try to stand up until you've come to a stop, relax as much as you can - your inner voice might be telling you to do this - listen to it. Unless your in the path of oncoming cars don't try to move until you've had a chance to check things over mentally. Getting up and finding your foot/leg doesn't work because its broken isn't pleasant.... You might not feel any pain from injuries for a few minutes. Good ole adrenalin. I'm not sure about the putting hands out thing, you will take the impact to your arms instead of your torso/head which may or may not be better, depends on the angle. Chances are whatever you do will be gut instinct anyway.

You could try to run through a crash scenario in your head but who knows if youll react like that when if you do.

Lazy7
5th March 2006, 11:02
i did karate for a long while and we got taught how to fall. I haven't had the chance to use what i learnt on a bike yet, but i think it would come in handy.

few tips we learnt.

dont put your palms facing downwards if you are going down. you will bend your hands backwards and snap them off at the wrists.

exhale all the air in your lungs. if your lungs aren't full of air, you wont get winded and it means you'll be able to move better when you stop. This is why you hear boxers exhale when they are fighting, stops them getting winded when they get body shots landed on them

hit the road, dont let it hit you. as in when you fall, hit the road with your outstretched arms and legs, this will lessen the force your body and head hit the road with and helps distribute the force. the more of you that hits at once, the less one part of you takes the major force.

i think this has been said before, but try and slide rather than tumble. sliding will just burn you, tumbling will break stuff.

dont be stupid and try and save your helmet. its the hardest bit of armour your wearing and its there for a reason. the last ride i went on with KB a guy came off his bike and i think his helmet coped a fence post at speed. gave him a pretty good concussion... and i was shocked... but then i got thinking... if he'd been hit 6 inches lower, it would have snapped his neck in half so getting hit in the helmet was probably the best place for it!

other than tips for what do to when falling, your best option is not to fall in the first place!

Pathos
5th March 2006, 15:27
lol if you've got time to think about falling you should probably try not to.

I've come off 3 times and not one of them gave me time to think about falling. And they were all low speed.

I would recommend against high speed rolling. You don't have the strength to hold you limbs close so they snap as they wrap around your body.

Sliding is fun and pretty safe as long as you're in leathers. And don't hit something....

knight rider
5th March 2006, 16:31
i did karate for a long while and we got taught how to fall. I haven't had the chance to use what i learnt on a bike yet, but i think it would come in handy.

few tips we learnt.

dont put your palms facing downwards if you are going down. you will bend your hands backwards and snap them off at the wrists.

exhale all the air in your lungs. if your lungs aren't full of air, you wont get winded and it means you'll be able to move better when you stop. This is why you hear boxers exhale when they are fighting, stops them getting winded when they get body shots landed on them

hit the road, dont let it hit you. as in when you fall, hit the road with your outstretched arms and legs, this will lessen the force your body and head hit the road with and helps distribute the force. the more of you that hits at once, the less one part of you takes the major force.

i think this has been said before, but try and slide rather than tumble. sliding will just burn you, tumbling will break stuff.

dont be stupid and try and save your helmet. its the hardest bit of armour your wearing and its there for a reason. the last ride i went on with KB a guy came off his bike and i think his helmet coped a fence post at speed. gave him a pretty good concussion... and i was shocked... but then i got thinking... if he'd been hit 6 inches lower, it would have snapped his neck in half so getting hit in the helmet was probably the best place for it!

other than tips for what do to when falling, your best option is not to fall in the first place!


this is the best advice I've heard

FROSTY
5th March 2006, 16:47
ohh lazy---Ive got the visor from said lid--Ive never seen one shatter before

kickingzebra
5th March 2006, 20:18
Waaaaayyy more fun to slide, Only thing I learned is think twice before digging in hands to try and slow down, I was wearing gloves, but digging them in heated them up, and melted synthetic lining into the palm of my hand... OUCH. Tumbling is best avoided, I watched a guy come off a bike somersault, run along the ground, somersault again, then stop. He broke his left scapula... Thats a major, mind you, stupid bastard was A, Pissed, B unlicensed, and C, the only bit of protection he was wearing apart from helmet was one of those pathetic leather waistcoats. He would have been in hospital for 6 weeks... Bugger that, all of the gear, all of the time!

terbang
7th March 2006, 16:07
Havn't had one for a long time and am fully aware that now I am over 40 I am more likely to snap rather than bend, but I survived a few gooduns as a youngster. Wear the gear, be proactive so as to not to have to use it (in other words avoid falling off), let it do its job if you do bin remember the gear is the last line of defense. I do sort of agree with the slow motion comments here but they are often in hind sight though I do remember concious proactive thought during a short period of flight in one instance. But it didn't really help as I broke a lot of bones and wasted some tax payers coin. It is sometimes quite a revelation to find injuries in places you didn't realise or remember contacting and that big split in your helmet is often hard to explain. If you take a serious off I reckon you realisticly have a very small amount control over the way its going to finally unravel. Lowsides do tend to unravel a little slower than other emergency ways of getting off your bike .
Preferrably My first reaction before getting off my bike is to put the sidestand down.

sunhuntin
7th March 2006, 21:14
only accident ive been in on the road....i knew it was coming, my brain went hyper and somehow i remembered reading somewhere to jump at the moment of impact....so jump i damn well did! the instant the bumper of the car connected with the front end of pup, i was airborne, more by my own force than that of the impact.
i flew over the bonnet, i think turning in midair, and then rolled once i hit the ground. stopped on my back, spread eagled. my brain told me instantly my legs etc were usable, ie, not broken! got up, tried to pick up the top box that had my cell phone and couldnt even lift it. staggered to the footpath and sat there.

somehow, i managed to escape serious injury and i dont know how. my left foot im sure got trapped between bike and car and lower leg got hooked up somewhere, due to large gash that was on it...shredded my best jeans. that leg now has a tidy scar and tends to be numb about 95% of the time. wasnt wearing a jacket, so got away lightly!

spent a lot of my childhood years rolling down hills at school and things, so this is likely why i rolled and escaped any big injury

DougB
7th March 2006, 23:39
When I did my compolusry military training in the early 1950s the NZ Army was still in world war two mode. They used to train their motorcycle despatch riders to fall off.
I remember seeing about ten Army Indian bikes with their 18 year old riders riding in loose formation. An order was given (whistle blown) and they all fell off in the approved army fashion.
I did not see much of the action as I was training as a gun fitter but I heard that they started them falling of at slow speeds and increased speeds gradualy up to forty
MPH (65k) all done on soft ground.

One of these guys was Johnny Hemplman who became a NZ champion on the track. I saw him at the end of his Army training escorting a convoy over a gravel road leading to Tihoi. He rode from one end of the convey to the other doing a slide turn at each end - ON AN ARMY INDIAN. Showing off was not in the army rule book so he was grounded. He was racing a Vellocette every weekend and was in the same barrack as me. he spent most of his spare time polishing the head of his bike. He used it as a shaving mirror.

The Army had manuals for everything, I still have my vehicle recovery manual from those days. I would love to get the one on falling off an Indian.

knight rider
8th March 2006, 00:33
only accident ive been in on the road....i knew it was coming, my brain went hyper and somehow i remembered reading somewhere to jump at the moment of impact....so jump i damn well did! the instant the bumper of the car connected with the front end of pup, i was airborne, more by my own force than that of the impact.
i flew over the bonnet, i think turning in midair, and then rolled once i hit the ground. stopped on my back, spread eagled. my brain told me instantly my legs etc were usable, ie, not broken! got up, tried to pick up the top box that had my cell phone and couldnt even lift it. staggered to the footpath and sat there.

somehow, i managed to escape serious injury and i dont know how. my left foot im sure got trapped between bike and car and lower leg got hooked up somewhere, due to large gash that was on it...shredded my best jeans. that leg now has a tidy scar and tends to be numb about 95% of the time. wasnt wearing a jacket, so got away lightly!

spent a lot of my childhood years rolling down hills at school and things, so this is likely why i rolled and escaped any big injury

so rolling can help prevent injurys. Of course if you have the gear then it is better to use what it was desined for

jonbuoy
8th March 2006, 19:34
When I did my compolusry military training in the early 1950s the NZ Army was still in world war two mode. They used to train their motorcycle despatch riders to fall off.
I remember seeing about ten Army Indian bikes with their 18 year old riders riding in loose formation. An order was given (whistle blown) and they all fell off in the approved army fashion.
I did not see much of the action as I was training as a gun fitter but I heard that they started them falling of at slow speeds and increased speeds gradualy up to forty
MPH (65k) all done on soft ground.

One of these guys was Johnny Hemplman who became a NZ champion on the track. I saw him at the end of his Army training escorting a convoy over a gravel road leading to Tihoi. He rode from one end of the convey to the other doing a slide turn at each end - ON AN ARMY INDIAN. Showing off was not in the army rule book so he was grounded. He was racing a Vellocette every weekend and was in the same barrack as me. he spent most of his spare time polishing the head of his bike. He used it as a shaving mirror.

The Army had manuals for everything, I still have my vehicle recovery manual from those days. I would love to get the one on falling off an Indian.


Love it, only in the armed forces would they teach you such skills, and you get to crash a bike at someone elses expense.

sunhuntin
10th March 2006, 20:50
so rolling can help prevent injurys. Of course if you have the gear then it is better to use what it was desined for

yeh...ive got the gear [had it in the back of the bike! LOL] but was literally going 5 mins up the road from the gym to work. what a way to get off work, lmfao.