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meteor
19th April 2010, 19:13
Couldn't believe it... I registered and paid to do a rider skills course at a track. Got the reply from the course people... Sorry, as you ride a motard you can't do the course, we've had motard riders before and they piss people off so we've banned all motard riders... geez how fair is that? So go on, fess up, who was it?

R6_kid
19th April 2010, 19:21
Sorry you can't come as you might hurt other peoples egos. LOL!

Hotpoker
19th April 2010, 19:36
Was that the one at Hampton on saturday organised by the Hamilton club? Good thing that there were no spaces left for me!

There are still spaces for Hampton on sunday (normal track day) but it is $199 instead of $75 which is a bit arse.

98tls
19th April 2010, 19:52
Fair call,you lot just end up getting in the way.<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ommxNnGkjjE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ommxNnGkjjE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

EJK
19th April 2010, 19:53
lol I've never seen a motard bashing thread in my entire KB life.

:corn:

sinfull
19th April 2010, 19:56
Fair call,you lot just end up getting in the way.<> Now wasn't that fella feeling no pain at the end of that lil ride ?? Can't say how he felt when he came too though !!!

98tls
19th April 2010, 19:59
Now wasn't that fella feeling no pain at the end of that lil ride ?? Can't say how he felt when he came too though !!!

Hope he slept for awhile poor bugger,really was a horror eh.Ouch.

Bulldog
19th April 2010, 20:25
Are you serious?! Send me the details of the organising club or person you dealt with. I'm sorry but that's just plain prejudice. Saying all motard riders will be the same as some others? Seriously send me the details. I'll be making some phone calls.

DesmoDAZ
19th April 2010, 21:58
The guys or group of guys that started the big moan about tards on the track really need to get on one and find out just what they are missing.
Is there any record of just how many motard riders have crashed road race style riders since the inception of motards?
Just how many road race style riders have crashed other road race style riders over the years???? give up, well it's shit loads.
Ego's are funny things indeed.
Take the tards out of bears and you have a pretty depleated line up.
Take the tards out of everything else and your left with what? 10 in the Superbikes, 12 in the 600's, 15 in F3 and Pro twins combined, 25 in street stock. What happens with the 55 and growing in numbers every season of tard riders?

I only ride track days and bought a tard to do just that.
I have however followed and watched m/c racing the length and breadth of this country for over 35 years now and one thing is for sure, MNZ and riders of other classes cannot afford to ignore the rise in popularity of motard style bikes on normal road race tracks. Just how many purpose built motard tracks do we have in this country?

Some of the big reasons motards are so successfully popular is the undisputable fact that they are fun to ride, they are fast enough out of ther box but not too fast (not everyone wants to go 300kph) for the aging body of riders that choose to purchase, ride and race them, they stand up to an off so much better than a rr machine which again equaits to $$$.

In a sport that has so dramitically changed from the heady days of the Castrol 2 and 6 hours, the fantastic and reasonably cheep days of 250 production racing, how big were those grids?
Imagine a production class of a 450 size machine now days just what would be the bike of choice? Not a normal"" road bike thats for sure.
The cheepest production class out side of streetstock is now Pro twins, Production what?? Every one knows just how much you have to spend to be at the sharp end of a so called production class now days, Front end, rear shock, exhaust, power commander, the list goes on.

Sure, if the Motard riders want to compete in F3 or indeed some in pro twins let them, I think the ruling of knee down and NO foot out in these classes is safe and fair if that is what it takes to combine different bike platforms to get grid numbers up and produce exciting racing.

Back to the opening post of this thread, it would seem rather short sighted of the organisers of the said track day event ( rider training ) and to say they have had complaints from other riders about motard type bikes, shame on you as fellow motorcyclists.

cold comfort
20th April 2010, 09:19
Toatally agree. Have motarded my DR specifically to ride on track days ECONOMICALLY. Had so much fun on myrecent outing to Levels. I would be really pissed to be excluded by such a pompous devisive ruling.

slowpoke
20th April 2010, 15:15
I reckon it's those big wide bars.............you guys are just farkin' wide road blocks so if yall just fitted skinny bars then you'd only be half the problem:Pokey:

Nah, seriously motards are caught betwixt and between. Thanks to the light weight/big brakes combo motards are quick into and 'round corners......but are bloody slow down most of the straights, having low power and shitty aerodynamics.

As a result you'll wanna pass people into and 'round corners (when most folks like to have a lil' elbow room, especially if inexperienced) but then you'll be flat out struggling to make 160 down a decent straight. Depending on the circuit a 600/1000 could be going 100kph faster on the straights.

The thing is a lot of motard pilots know they are slower and can't resist having a peek over their shoulder and drifting half way across the track while they do it. I've personally experienced it when I've come steaming along Taupo's back straight with a closing speed in excess of 100kph and also seen someone else run into the dirt when a motard has shied away from the bike coming up the inside and removed the realestate the guy going round the outside was going to use. Big speed differentials are tricky and trying to take evasive action at +250kph is easier said than done.

It's a tricky situation: go in a slower group and get frustrated with the slower cornering/no passing rules or go in a faster group and get strafed by bikes with 2 -3 times the power. I can't see an easy answer.

meteor
20th April 2010, 16:39
DesmoDaz and Slowpoke what you both say makes perfect sense... motards are getting more popular but for safety should stick to racing other motards... My OP is about the reasoning behind banning ALL motard riders from a skills course designed to save lives on the road because a couple of previous riders on motards caused 'issues' with others. Can't quite get my head around it... Maybe it's a Hamilton thing, a committee round the campfire and 6 fingers strumming the banjo sort of decision! Discrimination against a style of bike?! .... next thing ya know people won't like Aucklanders!

Anywho onward and upward... ACC sponsored the course so as I've been banned I'll have to ask if they'll reduce my premiums, earner levies, Registration and petrol taxes...

glegge
20th April 2010, 16:50
Damnd motard's.. i got dicked by one on the cliffhanger hillclimb. grumble... dirty old dirt bike beat me. not fair.. sulks off to corner... :gob::cry::slap:
But i dont think they should be banned, I should probably try one... but cant bring myself to buy a dirt bike i cant take up the fire breaks.


Couldn't believe it... I registered and paid to do a rider skills course at a track. Got the reply from the course people... Sorry, as you ride a motard you can't do the course, we've had motard riders before and they piss people off so we've banned all motard riders... geez how fair is that? So go on, fess up, who was it?

DesmoDAZ
20th April 2010, 20:36
I reckon it's those big wide bars.............you guys are just farkin' wide road blocks so if yall just fitted skinny bars then you'd only be half the problem:Pokey:

Nah, seriously motards are caught betwixt and between. Thanks to the light weight/big brakes combo motards are quick into and 'round corners......but are bloody slow down most of the straights, having low power and shitty aerodynamics.

As a result you'll wanna pass people into and 'round corners (when most folks like to have a lil' elbow room, especially if inexperienced) but then you'll be flat out struggling to make 160 down a decent straight. Depending on the circuit a 600/1000 could be going 100kph faster on the straights.

The thing is a lot of motard pilots know they are slower and can't resist having a peek over their shoulder and drifting half way across the track while they do it. I've personally experienced it when I've come steaming along Taupo's back straight with a closing speed in excess of 100kph and also seen someone else run into the dirt when a motard has shied away from the bike coming up the inside and removed the realestate the guy going round the outside was going to use. Big speed differentials are tricky and trying to take evasive action at +250kph is easier said than done.

It's a tricky situation: go in a slower group and get frustrated with the slower cornering/no passing rules or go in a faster group and get strafed by bikes with 2 -3 times the power. I can't see an easy answer.

Your spot on the mark Slowpoke, I really do agree with you:) "almost" bar width between my st4s and sxv is 38mm not a hell of a lot wider, I have spent considerable time and $$ to get my sxv 5.5 to pull through to 230kph at the end of ruapuna front straight, and it will get there pretty bloody quickly, I do here you and always experience the woooosh of the 600 and litre boys mowing me down at the 1/2 straight mark... I don't bother looking back and stick to my line every time.
We all must agree there is a vast difference between a race and a track day but surely a pass rnd the outside is better and safer than someone trying to stuff a wider bike up the inside. Not to mention a lot more fun and satisfying.

I still think a big part of the whole issue here is an ego thing, lets say a few of the boys started getting round up by a quick rider on a Kawasaki concourse or a big fat fast BMW with cylinders as wide as the average tards bars, We could have another discipline called tourtards or motouring I bet those bikes would get dumped on as well, they would be too ugly or too comftable. People on sports bikes detest being passed by anything Full Stop. I've seen guys kill themselves on the road to prove this.:stupid:

Track days should be a pretty safe and mild way to enjoy a day on your bike.
Racing should be hard fast and a heady way to enjoy your bike but it will never be all that safe, for cripes sake it's racing and and everyone wants the same bit of track; every one out there should want to win and ride as hard as possible to win,:Playnice: Thats racing, if you want 100% safe stay in bed but watch out for toast crumbs and a burn on the lip from a coffee thats too hot.

Tards racing tards would seem the logical way to go, being refused a ride at a training day is just BS,

However if I am at a Track day I promise to only pass you rnd the outside with plenty of room, I'll even show you a front wheel to let you know I'm there first, I promise to out brake you and get into 3rd gear while your still clicking into second,:shifty: but most of all i promise to let you blow by me 2/3 the way down the straight so I can do the above all over again, Why, becauce it so fricken fun. LOL:mellow:

onearmedbandit
20th April 2010, 23:56
Anywho onward and upward... ACC sponsored the course so as I've been banned I'll have to ask if they'll reduce my premiums, earner levies, Registration and petrol taxes...

Ooo, I wouldn't do that. They'll look into why Motards are banned, deem them more dangerous than any other form of transport known to man, and up goes your motards rego 100 fold.

Sue
21st April 2010, 09:12
Hi, my partner use to race Motard at Manfield, they have since deleted motard racing there too. They say it was due to lack of interest? when it first started there was a lot of interest and everytime we went there were guys trying it for the first time "GREAT". But then they made them race full track which is too hard on the bikes and numbers declined. I have been told if I can get 20 bikes to race motard they will give it another go. If you are keen or know anyone who is contact me please allnaturalhair10@gmail.com

The Pink Panther
23rd April 2010, 20:20
Do you know the difference between a rider skills day ,track day and then there ia a big change of going on to wiring up your oil drain plug and putting a number board on your bike? i am shore you do .
Every one can get along but if you have a bruised ego from only seeing a tard tail on your favorite bit of twisty Bitumen from which you gained your number 1 or 46 decal from your mates lol.
If you carnt beat them join them?
Should we show prejudice to hyper Motards wide bars but bigger motor which means than can go faster in a straight line compared to a out of the box 525 exc only 190 kph.
Would you bitch at a NZ 125 gp bike (55 hp) slow top speed but quicker lap time than your road super bike .

Bathurst the GTR nissan and the cosworth sierra where to fast for the V8's . lets just change the rules .

The rotary was banned in endurance races by the FIA after winning the 1991 Le Mans, not for being too powerful, but for being too reliable! and fast.

The TZ 750 got banned from flat track (kenny Roberts) it was light and to much power being a two banger did not help.

Ha i know Lets just ban tards (a dirtbike) from riding with road bikes they just pull slides out when road bikes carnt slide, jump over small buildings, go quick through corners and pull the front wheel up and keep clicking gears because all i all that is not at all hard to do.
When i am at a street race i notice how the crowd will go to the toilet or walk to the pits too look at the other real bikes when the biggest number of bikes in one class come out, because it is boring to watch i guess.

Top speed vs Clicking gears on the back wheel from the lights past a gixer 1000 ... Priceless

DesmoDAZ
23rd April 2010, 22:21
I think this is where Motard style bikes are headed just for those a bit worried about wideness.:p

DesmoDAZ
24th April 2010, 20:44
I reckon it's those big wide bars.............you guys are just farkin' wide road blocks so if yall just fitted skinny bars then you'd only be half the problem:Pokey:

Nah, seriously motards are caught betwixt and between. Thanks to the light weight/big brakes combo motards are quick into and 'round corners......but are bloody slow down most of the straights, having low power and shitty aerodynamics.

As a result you'll wanna pass people into and 'round corners (when most folks like to have a lil' elbow room, especially if inexperienced) but then you'll be flat out struggling to make 160 down a decent straight. Depending on the circuit a 600/1000 could be going 100kph faster on the straights.

The thing is a lot of motard pilots know they are slower and can't resist having a peek over their shoulder and drifting half way across the track while they do it. I've personally experienced it when I've come steaming along Taupo's back straight with a closing speed in excess of 100kph and also seen someone else run into the dirt when a motard has shied away from the bike coming up the inside and removed the realestate the guy going round the outside was going to use. Big speed differentials are tricky and trying to take evasive action at +250kph is easier said than done.

It's a tricky situation: go in a slower group and get frustrated with the slower cornering/no passing rules or go in a faster group and get strafed by bikes with 2 -3 times the power. I can't see an easy answer.

I've got a wide on.:yeah:

motogp1
11th May 2010, 11:18
I like watching tards (when I've already had a hot dog) to but do agree with those that say it is not a good idea to have rr bikes and tards on the track together because:

They often seem to take very different lines into/out of some corners which for me has been very dangerous when a bike appears where it is not 'supposed' to be.

They seem quite happy to take a lot more risk. Perhaps because their bikes are easier/cheaper to fix. Nice for you ,tard rider, but devistating for me when I get collected as you slide into the back of my bike having lost the front doing a demon manouvre.

Try passing a tard only to have him throw his back wheel at you when you are half way through. Shit pants.

Everybody that wants to race/track day should be allowed to race/track day but saftey comes first. IMHO A rr bike and a trad are too different to be on track together without increasing the risk of accidents.

One other point, tard riders could try a little harder to make friends in the paddocks, some are ex MX riders where 'knees and elbows' and 'block passing' etc are the norm as is crashing at least once most days you race. This is not normal for most road racers whom are mostly just enthusiasts looking to build a beautiful bike to be proud of and enjoy a day of fun, fast and safe riding. The minority have delusions of granduer.

This is my opinion - like it or screw you.

Quasievil
11th May 2010, 11:54
This is my opinion - like it or screw you.

Funny, but how many Motarders do you see that can actually back it in...............fuck all

How many sportsbike riders take the same line??? fuck all, and if they did why dont we make tracks 6 inches wide

thats not an opinion, thats all fact

kiwifruit
11th May 2010, 11:54
The most fun i've had around a track on a trackday has been aboard a motard. It seems a bit odd to ban them from a rider skills day.... Which company was it with?

rachprice
11th May 2010, 12:00
I like watching tards (when I've already had a hot dog) to but do agree with those that say it is not a good idea to have rr bikes and tards on the track together because:

They often seem to take very different lines into/out of some corners which for me has been very dangerous when a bike appears where it is not 'supposed' to be.

They seem quite happy to take a lot more risk. Perhaps because their bikes are easier/cheaper to fix. Nice for you ,tard rider, but devistating for me when I get collected as you slide into the back of my bike having lost the front doing a demon manouvre.

Try passing a tard only to have him throw his back wheel at you when you are half way through. Shit pants.

Everybody that wants to race/track day should be allowed to race/track day but saftey comes first. IMHO A rr bike and a trad are too different to be on track together without increasing the risk of accidents.

One other point, tard riders could try a little harder to make friends in the paddocks, some are ex MX riders where 'knees and elbows' and 'block passing' etc are the norm as is crashing at least once most days you race. This is not normal for most road racers whom are mostly just enthusiasts looking to build a beautiful bike to be proud of and enjoy a day of fun, fast and safe riding. The minority have delusions of granduer.

This is my opinion - like it or screw you.

Man racing is racing....some people aren't there to make friends, but to race and be competitive!!
If you want to enjoy a day of fast, fun, safe riding, do a track day!
Your attitude 'like it or screw you' seems to be similar to what you are complaining about

onearmedbandit
11th May 2010, 12:00
Top speed vs Clicking gears on the back wheel from the lights past a gixer 1000 ... Priceless

That's because if the GSXR1000 rider did the same they'd be over 200 and still only in 2nd gear, on the back wheel.

Crasherfromwayback
11th May 2010, 12:16
I've been road racing moto-x bikes on and off for over 20 years...and I think they shouldn't be on race tracks together as (as has been mentioned) top speed differentials are way too great and not safe. Street circuits are a different kettle of fish.

meteor
11th May 2010, 17:01
... It seems a bit odd to ban them from a rider skills day.... Which company was it with?

HMCC with ACC, Manukau City Council and Police supporting/sponsoring it. Think it's all over now... the guys running it got hounded by the politics of it all and other interested parties... poor beggars tried to do the right thing by bikers but got shat on all over the place. I'm over it.

Fully understand about the whole motard v sportbike thing on race day... but this was a skills course.... bloody politics, bloody one upmanship, bloody commercial back stabbing eh!!!! nuff said.

Quasievil
11th May 2010, 17:11
I've been road racing moto-x bikes on and off for over 20 years...and I think they shouldn't be on race tracks together as (as has been mentioned) top speed differentials are way too great and not safe. Street circuits are a different kettle of fish.I agree sportsbikes are to slow in the corners

Crasherfromwayback
11th May 2010, 18:15
I agree sportsbikes are to slow in the corners

You ever ridden an RS250 GP bike? EVERYTHING is slow in the corners after that mate!

Rogue Rider
11th May 2010, 18:30
Not really had much to do with Motards, worked with retards thought..... are they similar lol.

gearte
12th May 2010, 19:43
if you not had much to do with motards kitt,keep ya comments to a self dick................

DesmoDAZ
25th May 2010, 21:56
if you not had much to do with motards kitt,keep ya comments to a self dick................

Ya spot on there gearte, i'm picking most people bagging motards have had bugger all to do with them, except being passed rnd the outside. We've all seen nanas go fast in a straight line, Ha Ha. ;-p

Quasievil
26th May 2010, 07:27
Like this eh bro


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FzerozeroT
24th November 2010, 08:36
Too bad that I didn't see this closer to the time as I could have clarified/sorted something out

This was a road rider training day and the purpose was to get people to the track that normally wouldn't bother as they don't think they are fast enough / confident enough.

At the same trackday I wasn't allowed to take my NSR300 as the cornering speed would be too high - and I was one of the riding marshalls.

At the same track day we turned down quite a few litre bikes, a pair of guys who turned up on modified scooters, anyone on a race bike, anyone that we knew was just there for a cheap trackday.

I have to agree to a certain extent that we need to impress ACC and the local council, without them there wouldn't be the HMCC training day at Hampton Downs, but at the same time it's quite rewarding to cater to a market that wouldn't bother with a "Track Day" our B group is probably a C at most other Track Days, and our C's consist of GN250's, Viragos and the like. The A group is Bandits, Hornets and the like.

We decided that we finally wanted to have a Track Day where we could go on our own bikes (race bikes and motards included) and cut loose and then we can't get enough people to fill it, we just cant win!

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/130963-Budget-Track-Day-Taupo-Track-3-60-Nov-28th

Quasievil
24th November 2010, 08:54
You live, hey dude !!

ital916
24th November 2010, 17:10
Too bad that I didn't see this closer to the time as I could have clarified/sorted something out

This was a road rider training day and the purpose was to get people to the track that normally wouldn't bother as they don't think they are fast enough / confident enough.

At the same trackday I wasn't allowed to take my NSR300 as the cornering speed would be too high - and I was one of the riding marshalls.

At the same track day we turned down quite a few litre bikes, a pair of guys who turned up on modified scooters, anyone on a race bike, anyone that we knew was just there for a cheap trackday.

I have to agree to a certain extent that we need to impress ACC and the local council, without them there wouldn't be the HMCC training day at Hampton Downs, but at the same time it's quite rewarding to cater to a market that wouldn't bother with a "Track Day" our B group is probably a C at most other Track Days, and our C's consist of GN250's, Viragos and the like. The A group is Bandits, Hornets and the like.

We decided that we finally wanted to have a Track Day where we could go on our own bikes (race bikes and motards included) and cut loose and then we can't get enough people to fill it, we just cant win!

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/130963-Budget-Track-Day-Taupo-Track-3-60-Nov-28th

Was there on the day and have to say it was very good. The HMCC crew were cool and the riding lessons were very very informative. However, as far as banning motards went, I didn't see any point as there were bikes there that would have been in the "too dangerous for a road training day" otherwise. R1's, cbr1000's. I quote one gentleman as saying "This is a great cheap trackday".

Lets see, in the b-class there were litres bikes, 600cc supersports, 250cc learner bikes, cruisers etc. If all of these were to be mixed together, why not motards, which would have been the same down the straights as the 250cc bikes. Alternatively, the motards could have been put in the 250cc (or greater bike) c class.

I was in the Fast group and by half way through the day it had turned into everyone going flat tack. Not bagging the day and organisation which was great but I dropped to b group to try and get myself better practice without fear of being suprised by people overtaking and undertaking me on corners (like one rider on a trumpy triple, taking me on the inside of the haripin :facepalm:).

I find in hindsight, there was no point in banning motards. As a road training day, the top speeds people should have been hitting down the straight shouldn't be more than 120-130. Not racebike speeds.

Great day though, learnt lots, had fun and made friends. Again the HMCC crew are top people. Would happily go again....if my new bike was allowed lol

FzerozeroT
25th November 2010, 00:07
Hey Quasi, been hanging out on the dirt but just added a set of 17" wheels to the WR to see what all this motard rubbish is all about :shutup:

Ital, sorry to hear that the A group ended up like that, the speed of the group is supposed to be monitored by the riding marshals and I can't really comment as I was in the B group but this is the first that I've heard it was too fast, I was hearing that it was too slow from some.

I would have liked to have heard more about problems people had on the day, you probably didn't want to as it probably seemed like it was going pretty well and no-one wants to be 'that moaning bastard', as always we had problems when people were working on bikes doing suspension setup and we couldn't keep the groups to schedule, and organising all the marshalls for that track is a huge pain, but I think we managed to make it look easy and that's always good for appearances

I wasn't actually aware of a blanket ban on motards, and as far as I knew there was supposed to be a blanket ban on litre sportsbikes. The organising is underway for another one next year and I'll make sure that I raise the fact that there should be room to accommodate all types of bikes, The hardest thing to do is weed out those that are there to do some learning and those that just want a subsidised trackday (as you found out) and I suppose the easiest thing to do is generalise by type of bike

Anyway, I didn't raise this thread from the dead to justify decisions I didn't make or apologise for the way that the club tries to appeal to a mass market, just acknowleding a bit of criticism and I'll put it to the guys in charge and see what I can do.

meteor
25th November 2010, 06:10
Thanks for clarifying FzerozeroT. I was the baned motard rider (at the time on a DRZ400SM... so not a rocketship). I know there were politics at play. Unfortunately the pre course paper work only talked about skill and learning desire. Nothing about bike type. The aim of the course was to increase the on road skills of new and medium ability riders by giving some cornering/braking/steering advice and to blacklist riders from learning that because of their bike I thought was unfair.... I still do.

Shorty_925
26th November 2010, 11:51
Ya spot on there gearte, i'm picking most people bagging motards have had bugger all to do with them, except being passed rnd the outside. We've all seen nanas go fast in a straight line, Ha Ha. ;-p

You should see how people react when being passed by someone on a FXR150 around the outside of them :woohoo:

North Harbour Yamaha
26th November 2010, 12:21
Fair call,you lot just end up getting in the way.<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ommxNnGkjjE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ommxNnGkjjE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Ouch :blink: