KTM's electric- Freeride

[Reckless]

Here ya go I get cycle world and found this for your interest.

http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=41&article_id=2127

128lbs that's about 89 kilo's, 22 horse power (doesn't sound like a lot), I hour ride time between 90minute recharges.

205102

205103

For sale Spring 2011

Who's ordering???

[RJM]

I can't see these becoming mainstream quickly but think they do have a place in the world. The ride time is a bit short especially for a trail ride and charging is slow. Surely you'd want to carry a spare battery pack with you so you could quickly swap them over in the pits.

[K6K]

Instead of noise on the track you would have the noise of the generators in the pits...

[bogan]

kind of a repost here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/120560-e-KTM-still-in-development/page2?highlight=ktm+electric)
I'd order if I had that sorta money lying round

[vazza]

Instead of noise on the track you would have the noise of the generators in the pits...

Hahah true.

I would like to see them in action. Maybe if the batteries lasted 5 hours and took 1 hour to charge then yeh, I would be keen. But $12000 for a bike that lasts an hour? Not worth it for me.

[bogan]

Hahah true.

I would like to see them in action. Maybe if the batteries lasted 5 hours and took 1 hour to charge then yeh, I would be keen. But $12000 for a bike that lasts an hour? Not worth it for me.

dunno bout you, but when I'm at a track I last about 10 mins then take another 10 at least to charge, may as well plug the bike in at same time :D

[vazza]

Fair enough.

Im more thinking of 6+ hour national enduros etc 1 hour charge just wont cut it. Obviously they havnt created an enduro type model as of yet, would like to see one : )

[camchain]

Plus a lukewarm ride review on the zero:
http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=888

Seems they're improving though. Interesting about cooling issue:
http://www.gizmag.com/zero-motorcycles-2010-line-up-electric-motorcycles/14400/

Can't help thinking these things will be super-sneaky quick through the trees at Woodhill. 3 grand for a spare batt. Quite keen to see one. The KTM looks nicer (a lot dearer too) than the zero with it's ugly square battery box, but both still a bit toy-like for my taste. I reckon mountain bikers will be the first to buy them.

Where are the Japanese ones though? They must be tinkering with their own prototypes by now.

Hey Vazza, I read an article a while ago where Zero entered one in a multi day enduro. They had to mod it a fair bit to allow super quick battery changes. Can't remember where they finished though. Did OK I think.

[Reckless]

kind of a repost here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/120560-e-KTM-still-in-development/page2?highlight=ktm+electric)

Sorry Bogan I bloody well read that thread as well DUH!!! LOL!!!

[CRF119]

No body will buy one, customers complain when they need to spend $450 for a Lipoly battery pack for their $3000 helicopter. And with a Lipoly all it takes is one cell to drop out and your whole pack is stuffed. Not to mention if it is mistreated they catch fire and you also cant let them go flat or they will fail. The bike is ahead of bettery development give it a few more years. The new LiFe packs may be the answer or maybe somthing completly different.

[cheese]

Zinc air are the new thing in batteries apparently.

[oldguy]

if they are the future of offroad motorcycling, :puke:am glad ill be long dead, when they become mainstream. long live the fossil fuel burners.:Punk:

[camchain]

Pity the battery technology's not like computers with double the power every 18mths and price lower every time. I read some thing about 'oxygen' batts (zinc air?) on that gizmag site a while ago. You never know - a real big breakthough could be just around the corner. Plenty of bright buggers working on it & a lot money being tipped in. 10 years from now our helmets might be super efficient solar panels.

[CRF119]

Over the course of 3 years batteries went from 3000mah to 5000mah with the old Ni-Mh they maxed there potential and now we have lipolys with high discharge rates and half the weight so they are updating relitivly quickly. This new zinc air has me interested because of course the R/C market is quick to jump into anything new

[noobi]

Another electric bike, although the electric trials bike is slightly more practical, seeing as you dont usually travel huge distances on them.

http://www.befurious.com/adam-raga-nos-ensena-la-gas-gas-electrica-de-trial-en-el-dia-mundial-contra-el-ruido/

Its a plus if your browser will translate automatically

The gist of the article is, that on "world day against noise", Gasgas and Adam Raga (2 times trials world champion) unveiled the Gasgas electric bike, and that it will supposedly be on sale some time next year.

[Rupe]

Another electric bike, although the electric trials bike is slightly more practical, seeing as you dont usually travel huge distances on them.

http://www.befurious.com/adam-raga-nos-ensena-la-gas-gas-electrica-de-trial-en-el-dia-mundial-contra-el-ruido/

Its a plus if your browser will translate automatically

The gist of the article is, that on "world day against noise", Gasgas and Adam Raga (2 times trials world champion) unveiled the Gasgas electric bike, and that it will supposedly be on sale some time next year.

I don't really see the point of electric mx or enduro bikes so much. But an electic trials bike seems like a real good idea. I can think of so many places locally I could ride one (or at least try) and get away with it, if it made no noise! Perfect, hope its as good as the petrol ones

[Jantar]

No body will buy one, ....
OK, so I'm No Body. I am watching the Zero S as a commuter, and once the on road cost here for them (or similar) in NZ drops below $10,000 I will be ordering one.

I see it as an ideal commuter, and able to handle my daily commute of gravel (2 km), open road (12 km), urban (4 km) and semi rural (2 km) and need to be charged once every 3 - 4 days.

[bogan]

I don't really see the point of electric mx or enduro bikes so much. But an electic trials bike seems like a real good idea. I can think of so many places locally I could ride one (or at least try) and get away with it, if it made no noise! Perfect, hope its as good as the petrol ones

I'd love to have a thrash at electric off road, easy throttle and lack of gears should reduce some of that arm pump! Mass production is only aimed at the lightweight/power classes currently though. Who knows, maybe we'll see close to town mx parks for quiet electric only some day soon?

[flyingcr250]

i dont care if petrol gets to $5 alitre, ill still be out there riding my loud earth killing eco-system destroying motox bike,

[salts]

i will not be riding one of these, what alot of people are not considering with the electrics is the rebuild cost, you think a 4stroke rebuild is hard on pocket, wait till you buy a new battery for one of these. the battery is around half the cost of the bike. and if you ride it to work everyday as someone was wanting you will be replacing the battery once every three years min, if you try to race this with high discharge you will replace it once a year. carrying a spare battery is also not an option because guess what half the bikes weight is made of... not including what the extra $5k could buy in terms of gas.

[Jantar]

....wait till you buy a new battery for one of these. the battery is around half the cost of the bike. and if you ride it to work everyday as someone was wanting you will be replacing the battery once every three years min, ....
You obviously haven't been keeping up with battery developement. The only reason that electric bikes of this size have already dropped in price from US$14000 to US$10000 is the improvement in battery technology and the reduction in battery cost. The battery is currently 30% of the vehicle price at US$3000 and has a life of 1000 charging cycles. For commuting that's around 3500 days or 10 years. Much better than the 300 charging cycle life of only 3 years ago.

As batteries improve further and drop in cost then the choice will be economic. It isn't yet, but its getting there.

[mattnzl]

Can't get over how quiet this trials bike is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOYcwXrfk7g
Performance electric cars often have quite a supercharger-like whine to them.

[.chris]

If I had the money I think I would probably buy one over a normal trail bike.
I have the 690 for any longer ride days, this would be that nice blend between the mountain bike and mx bike, 1hr ride time would be fine I don't have the fitness to go much longer.

But then again 89kg is more than I would prefer, might wait till the next gen when they can make them lighter I reckon.

[mattnzl]

While battery replacement would obviously be a major every few years, the other eliminated maint. costs would be significant. If they had a brushless hub motor like electric bikes (electric motor is the rear wheel hub):
No chain & sprockets
No clutch
No gearbox
No gear oil replacement
No sump oil replacement
No rings/piston valves etc. replacement/adjustment
No rear disc/pad replacement (rear brake is motor regenerative braking)
No airfilter replace/cleaning.
No carb adjust/clean/tuning
A few bucks electricity to recharge.

Maximum torque from 0 rpm. While it's hard for us to imagine replacing our ic engined bikes with these now, in a few (5? 10?) years time these could be amazing machines.:shit:

[bogan]

While battery replacement would obviously be a major every few years, the other eliminated maint. costs would be significant. If they had a brushless hub motor like electric bikes (electric motor is the rear wheel hub):
No chain & sprockets
No clutch
No gearbox
No gear oil replacement
No sump oil replacement
No rings/piston valves etc. replacement/adjustment
No rear disc/pad replacement (rear brake is motor regenerative braking)
No airfilter replace/cleaning.
No carb adjust/clean/tuning
A few bucks electricity to recharge.

Maximum torque from 0 rpm. While it's hard for us to imagine replacing our ic engined bikes with these now, in a few (5? 10?) years time these could be amazing machines.:shit:

you may find having the motor as unsprung weight would make em handle like crap, other points are all good though :yes:

[morg_nz]

EDIT: (Look at the photo)

Yes Chain & sprockets

No clutch
No gearbox
No gear oil replacement
No sump oil replacement
No rings/piston valves etc. replacement/adjustment

Yes rear disc/pad replacement (rear brake is motor regenerative braking - Not sure where this comes from, there is clearly a disc, pads/caliper and cable that looks like it goes to the left lever on the handle bars)

No airfilter replace/cleaning.
No carb adjust/clean/tuning
A few bucks electricity to recharge.

Maximum torque from 0 rpm. While it's hard for us to imagine replacing our ic engined bikes with these now, in a few (5? 10?) years time these could be amazing machines

I do agree we will all be riding electric in the near future - if for nothing else than we'll get kicked off all land for emissions and noise like is happening in parts of australia

but they will just have a completly different set of problems and costs associated with their ownership. all of the seals on the motor for example will have to be perfect, the slightest gap letting moisture in will kill the motor

[raglanash]

These look good.
http://www.stealthelectricbikes.com/

[mattnzl]

[QUOTE=morg_nz;1130052647]EDIT: (Look at the photo)

Yes Chain & sprockets
Yes rear disc/pad replacement (rear brake is motor regenerative braking - Not sure where this comes from, there is clearly a disc, pads/caliper and cable that looks like it goes to the left lever on the handle bars)

I wasn't refering to that machine as such, just if one came out with a hub motor (which agree could be difficult for unsprung weight!).

Anyway, will be interesting to see how they turn out - I'm mildly optimistic that these could turn out ok. :yes:

[NordieBoy]

I'd have one in a (n expensive) heartbeat.

After watching the old vid of the guy playing on a mountainside and then the Adam Raga one, I'd just like to say...

In a fcukin heartbeat.

[salts]

You obviously haven't been keeping up with battery developement. The only reason that electric bikes of this size have already dropped in price from US$14000 to US$10000 is the improvement in battery technology and the reduction in battery cost. The battery is currently 30% of the vehicle price at US$3000 and has a life of 1000 charging cycles. For commuting that's around 3500 days or 10 years. Much better than the 300 charging cycle life of only 3 years ago.

As batteries improve further and drop in cost then the choice will be economic. It isn't yet, but its getting there.

thats taking into account only normal discharge, if you race it or try and go fast (anywhere near the top speed) the discharge gets pretty high, if you do high discharge often the 1000 cycles quoted quickly becomes 300ish.

also brushless motors arnt as ideal as you might think esp with takeoffs.

lol and someone mentioned using generators in pits to charge them... so now you have to buy a $2000 ish generator as well and then on top of that at least the same amount of gas or more to run it... ok i agree it would be slightly cheeper to comute to work on than a motox bike, but never a $2k scooter or 250ccish motorbike eg DR-Z250 (which will be faster and cooler...).

i agree with them being good for trials ... and comuting if you buy one for trialing :P

edit:

the one hour ride time on these is a little misleading in my opinion too... if battery is rated at 2500 Wh as here: http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/ktm/2011-ktm-freeride-ar87050.html, so you can ride it at 2.5kW for 1 hour, 5kW for half an hour, 10 kW for 15 minuits...
and then if you are comuting with a 10-15 minute ride you will be charging this every day or at enormous risk of runing out of juice two days unless you charge at work and home...

[cheese]

thats taking into account only normal discharge, if you race it or try and go fast (anywhere near the top speed) the discharge gets pretty high, if you do high discharge often the 1000 cycles quoted quickly becomes 300ish.


They recently tested a set of lithium batteries at a high discharge rate continuously cycling them charge discharge state and capacity slowly got worse, but they survived over 1000 cycles easily.

Like everything, it depends on what quality product they use.

[oldguy]

The electric, may be good for freestyle riding, with no technical stuff, but I can't see it doing full on trails events, indoor or outdoors as good as fossil fuel bikes.
watch these guys,you have to do gear selection on technical stuff, i cant see how you can just rely on the torque of the electric motor to get you through a section, where in some situation as with the fossil fuel bikes you have to bring up the engine revs to get a good burst of power, and you know by the engine sound weather you have enough power when drop the clutch, where as on a electric bike you just turn the throttle and hope.

And of course the Sound you got to love the sound off a fossil burner over that of an electric drill.
http://youtu.be/lQRvccqGVWw

[NordieBoy]

An electric bike beat a lot of gassers at an enduro...

[salts]

An electric bike beat a lot of gassers at an enduro...

while i do not doubt you, would you be so kind as to mention where, who was riding and when?

[NordieBoy]

Now I've got to find it.
Don't go away, just talk among yourselves for a while...

Oh and watch this all electric enduro in the meantime...
<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jm7mZ1o1R50?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Couple of names from the race...

Jöel Smets, Fabien Planet, Pål Anders Ullevålseter, Paulo Concalvez, Annie Seel.



Got the bugger...
<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/K0YohQbdRwA?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[salts]

interesting

expensive

but interesting

i would be keen to know what kind of distance they got off each battery/how many batteries they had charging to the one riding ratio

[CRF119]

An electric motor makes full torque straight away but i can still see the need for a clutch and gears. The next problem will be when a speed control cooks its self, or a motor winding burns out or the Lipo battery pack catches fire. I have RC cars and helis that draw over 100amps at 20+ volts and that is the continus load not momentary. There are going to be some huge electrical fires in the future i can see it.

[cheese]

Yeah I also think that it will need gears. I think that it won't need 5 like a MX bike, but I guess they could also run a dry clutch?? Also the voltage they are running is much higher which gives a lower current draw. But I'd say you'll probably have 400 amps drawing under full load. I guess they might water cool the motors and the speed controllers.

[CRF119]

I saw some specs on a electric drag car. the speed control could handle 2000 amps continus and it rand 50 lipo batteries unsure of there voltage or if they ran in parralel or series. From the rc stuff i deal with this would have to handle 1000amp load.