What am I paying ACC for?

[aff-man]

Got into an accident about a month ago....

First time in 8 years of riding I needed an ambo called out to check that I was ok, they said they recommend going to hospital but I had to sort out the bike and such... in hindsite probably should have gone...Wasn't my fault as said by coppers and insurance company.

3 weeks later letter in the mail saying that ACC doesn't cover all of the ambo fee and so need to pay $70

Bring on privatised health care, at least then I know all the costs involved sheeeesh

[onearmedbandit]

Must be different down here in Christchurch, both times I'vebeen carted away in a rig I haven't had to pay.

[bogan]

another of the changes they put through recently I'm guessing? I didnt have to pay a cent bout 6 years ago for my ambo ride.

[Mom]

Got into an accident about a month ago....

First time in 8 years of riding I needed an ambo called out to check that I was ok, they said they recommend going to hospital but I had to sort out the bike and such... in hindsite probably should have gone...Wasn't my fault as said by coppers and insurance company.

3 weeks later letter in the mail saying that ACC doesn't cover all of the ambo fee and so need to pay $70

Bring on privatised health care, at least then I know all the costs involved sheeeesh

Are they asking for the cost of deploying the ambo to the accident scene? I would be very interested in getting more detail of this one. Who called the ambo? Did you make an ACC claim at all? Go to the doctor after for any bumps and bruises?

I currently have 2 bills from ST John for 2 trips I had in an ambo recently. $67.50 each. My claim with ACC has not been accepted yet so I am up for the cost, but ACC have told me they will cover the cost if they accept the claim.

[oldrider]

We are paid up "members" of St John in order to cover that cost, has been there for years as far as we have known it!

[oldrider]

"What are you paying ACC for?" because it is compulsory, you have no choice and no other option, it is a form of TAXATION! :yes:

[Mom]

We are paid up "members" of St John in order to cover that cost, has been there for years as far as we have known it!

I dont have an issue paying for my trips, I may even become a member in light of my recent experiences. My Mother is a member, she is a regular ambulance user. But if ACC are supposed to pay for a trip then they should. I read that aff-man did not even get in the ambo but has received a bill, now that does not seem right to me at all.

[MSTRS]

Wellington Free Ambulance isn't free...

[Mom]

Wellington Free Ambulance isn't free...

One of the young men I spoke to at ACC regarding my claim told me not to worry about the ambulance costs as the ambulance service would send the bill to the hospital. I suggested he educate himself a bit better.

[Hanne]

Weird. I know the different regions have different ambulances, but I was not charged anything in 2008

[Mom]

Weird. I know the different regions have different ambulances, but I was not charged anything in 2008

Were you sick or injured Hanne? St John bill ACC if you are injured, or they bill you if you are sick, unless you are a member. I think membership is about $80 per annum. One trip in the ambo is $67.50.

[aff-man]

yip 67.50

I have a registered ACC number for the inccident as I am still getting some work done as I injured myself a little more than I thought on the day... aint adrenaline great ..... that is untill it wears off.
My missus called the ambo as I couldn't see straight and was all over the place.... I had just gone into a car head first at 30km/h.
I did get in said ambo as they didn't want me sitting out in the street while they checked if I could remember my name hahaha
But i then got out again and after about 30 mins they were on their merry way.

Yes I agree I should pay ACC but then I have paid over 2k in the last 8 years as part of my rego cover and now they want more cash for 1 callout. If it's a regular thing then sure I agree that a subsidy of some sort should be paid but for a 1 time accident situation??

[Hanne]

injured. I ran over my foot ><

[rainman]

Bring on privatised health care, at least then I know all the costs involved sheeeesh

It's just the Nats keeping up their battle to destroy ACC in the public eye. Don't let them, is my advice.

All you defenders of private healthcare have yet to answer a few key questions:
- In what other countries does this work really well?
- What would you do differently here to avoid the issues found in countries where it works really badly?
- How does healthcare get cheaper when you have to add in a profit motive?
- How do you deal with pre-existing conditions? This is the biggie.
There are more but those would be a good start.

My example is dental care - I would love decent insurance cover for my teeth, but there is no public option to speak of, the available private cover does not cover even a small portion of the costs (and it's in exchange for a hefty premium, at the top end of their policy offerings), and I can't buy specialist private cover at a reasonable premium because my teeth are already stuffed. How else could this work?

[Icemaestro]

It's actually not as bad here in the states as I once thought ... I've been working here for the past 5-6 months, healthcare insurance is compulsory paid out of my wages by my employer (due to it being a relatively higher risk job). Most dental care here (fillings, check ups, cleaning, x-rays) is completely covered by insurance, all doctor visits I pay 20$ initial fee (unless its an injury at work, which then I pay nothing) most other doctor stuff is 90% covered by insurance...

and for this? I pay about $20 a week...not sure if that's cheaper than acc levies etc but I've had an MRI since Ive been here which costs around 2k (100% covered):-P

The downside? Litigation - having acc in this country gives up our right as NZrs to sue for personal injury. And I'm all for not having the horrible litigation environment they have here in the states, where the doctors are afraid to let you go back to work or do anything until completely clear, for fear of you suing their asses off

[DMNTD]

I blame your calliper...or lack of it ;)

[p.dath]

Bring on privatised health care, at least then I know all the costs involved sheeeesh

You can take out private health insurance now to cover you for the gap between what ACC will cover you for, and the cover that you would like. I have. Don't want to take risks for with my health.

[R-Soul]

It's just the Nats keeping up their battle to destroy ACC in the public eye. Don't let them, is my advice.

All you defenders of private healthcare have yet to answer a few key questions:
- In what other countries does this work really well?
- What would you do differently here to avoid the issues found in countries where it works really badly?
- How does healthcare get cheaper when you have to add in a profit motive?
- How do you deal with pre-existing conditions? This is the biggie.
There are more but those would be a good start.

My example is dental care - I would love decent insurance cover for my teeth, but there is no public option to speak of, the available private cover does not cover even a small portion of the costs (and it's in exchange for a hefty premium, at the top end of their policy offerings), and I can't buy specialist private cover at a reasonable premium because my teeth are already stuffed. How else could this work?


The fact is that ACC has stuffed up the development of competitive private health care insurers.

In South Africa public healthacre is rubbish, and private insurers are brilliant. They even pay for most of your gym membership to encourage proactive health care. I dont see ACC doing that...

[aff-man]

I blame your calliper...or lack of it ;)

Shush you..... oh and about 6 people got to see how well the calipers on the 6R worked as I did a verticle(ish) 2 up stoppie into said muppet cager


You can take out private health insurance now to cover you for the gap between what ACC will cover you for, and the cover that you would like. I have. Don't want to take risks for with my health.

I have full health insurance for specialists and such. Don't think they cover ambo subsidies, will have to check though.

[rainman]

The fact is that ACC has stuffed up the development of competitive private health care insurers.

In South Africa public healthacre is rubbish, and private insurers are brilliant. They even pay for most of your gym membership to encourage proactive health care. I dont see ACC doing that...

Perhaps so, and yes, SA medical cover (particularly dentistry) is a Good Thing from what I remember (it's been a while). But still, saying "you can't get there from here" hardly helps the pro-privatisation case.

[Mom]

yip 67.50

I have a registered ACC number for the inccident as I am still getting some work done as I injured myself a little more than I thought on the day... aint adrenaline great ..... that is untill it wears off.
My missus called the ambo as I couldn't see straight and was all over the place.... I had just gone into a car head first at 30km/h.
I did get in said ambo as they didn't want me sitting out in the street while they checked if I could remember my name hahaha
But i then got out again and after about 30 mins they were on their merry way.

Yes I agree I should pay ACC but then I have paid over 2k in the last 8 years as part of my rego cover and now they want more cash for 1 callout. If it's a regular thing then sure I agree that a subsidy of some sort should be paid but for a 1 time accident situation??
Ring ST John and give them your ACC claim number and they will redirect the bill to them and you wont have to pay. True :yes:

[The Pastor]

"What are you paying ACC for?" because it is compulsory, you have no choice and no other option, it is a form of TAXATION! :yes:

thats werid im not paying any acc?

[MSTRS]

Not weird. The umemployed who don't register their vehicles and steal their petrol don't pay any ACC.

[miloking]

"What are you paying ACC for?"

So if i break my leg skiing i get surgery paid for of course :)

[oldrider]

It's just the Nats keeping up their battle to destroy ACC in the public eye. Don't let them, is my advice.

I agree with you but keep it seemly, "all" the politicians (National and Labour) have fucked about with ACC!

Before ACC (Woodhouse) there was nothing for anyone for accident insurance, non of the established insurance companies wanted a bar of it!

That is why I don't support them to replace ACC (Woodhouse version) now, even though Smith is doing his best to make them sound like a better option!

I want to see ACC return to Woodhouse principals as the first and only option, even if it does have "socialist" origins it worked then and can work again!

The politicians will have to be excluded from interfering with it though, put it under the control of the Governor General and the audit office if necessary!

Just keep ACC politician free and then focus on sorting out the system abusers! :yes:

[Mom]

It's actually not as bad here in the states as I once thought ... I've been working here for the past 5-6 months, healthcare insurance is compulsory paid out of my wages by my employer (due to it being a relatively higher risk job). Most dental care here (fillings, check ups, cleaning, x-rays) is completely covered by insurance, all doctor visits I pay 20$ initial fee (unless its an injury at work, which then I pay nothing) most other doctor stuff is 90% covered by insurance...

and for this? I pay about $20 a week...not sure if that's cheaper than acc levies etc but I've had an MRI since Ive been here which costs around 2k (100% covered):-P

The downside? Litigation - having acc in this country gives up our right as NZrs to sue for personal injury. And I'm all for not having the horrible litigation environment they have here in the states, where the doctors are afraid to let you go back to work or do anything until completely clear, for fear of you suing their asses off

That is because you are in a subsidised scheme via your employment. Go and give yourself a huge shock and find out the actual cost for an individual get the same cover you currently have under your subsidised scheme.

[rainman]

I agree with you but keep it seemly, "all" the politicians (National and Labour) have fucked about with ACC!

Before ACC (Woodhouse) there was nothing for anyone for accident insurance, non of the established insurance companies wanted a bar of it!

That is why I don't support them to replace ACC (Woodhouse version) now, even though Smith is doing his best to make them sound like a better option!

I want to see ACC return to Woodhouse principals as the first and only option, even if it does have "socialist" origins it worked then and can work again!

The politicians will have to be excluded from interfering with it though, put it under the control of the Governor General and the audit office if necessary!

Just keep ACC politician free and then focus on sorting out the system abusers! :yes:

Fairy Gnuff. Some of the changes made by Labour were crap too. A reset to Woodhouse principles seems like a good place to start.

I was just thinking about insurance today. Between car insurances, bike insurance, life insurance, house insurance, contents insurance, disability insurance, indemnity insurance, ACC levies etc... an awful lot of money goes from me to insurers every month. I don't think I have the guts to figure out how much of my (now former) income it is. I wonder what percentage of the tax I was paying it was? Most of these are fixed expenses, so more visible as income approaches small numbers.

All for scary stuff that might happen (but oh so hard to do without). You'd think my life would be covered against every possible bad outcome. Seems not to be the case, though.

I notice insurance companies seem to do quite well.

[The Pastor]

Not weird. The umemployed who don't register their vehicles and steal their petrol don't pay any ACC.

i was saying its weird that its compulsary. Its only complusary if you follow all the rules!

I dont make the rules, I break em.

[The Pastor]

Not weird. The umemployed who don't register their vehicles and steal their petrol don't pay any ACC.

i was saying its weird that its compulsary. Its only complusary if you follow all the rules!

I dont make the rules, I break em.

[oldrider]

Fairy Gnuff. Some of the changes made by Labour were crap too. A reset to Woodhouse principles seems like a good place to start.

I was just thinking about insurance today. Between car insurances, bike insurance, life insurance, house insurance, contents insurance, disability insurance, indemnity insurance, ACC levies etc... an awful lot of money goes from me to insurers every month. I don't think I have the guts to figure out how much of my (now former) income it is. I wonder what percentage of the tax I was paying it was? Most of these are fixed expenses, so more visible as income approaches small numbers.

All for scary stuff that might happen (but oh so hard to do without). You'd think my life would be covered against every possible bad outcome. Seems not to be the case, though.

I notice insurance companies seem to do quite well.

Funny how it is with all that cover, they can still find a little reason why you are "not" covered in "this" instance and your up the creek!

It's all just another form of tax on your life in the end, the bastards!

I said to my wife today, (in a moment of despair) shit I have never felt so bloody old and she quickly quipped, that's because you have never been this old before!

I thought about that for a moment and can't help wondering, why I was surprised by it all! :mellow:

I think I have passed my use by date! :slap:

[rainman]

Funny how it is with all that cover, they can still find a little reason why you are "not" covered in "this" instance and your up the creek!

Too true. My mom-in-law died last year (overseas), so we cancelled the trip we'd planned for December to go see her (not much point, after all). My wife flew over to go sort out funerals and the rest of that mess - and paid full whack for the flights, of course - and I went on down to the travel agent to cancel the other flights. Had to pay $750 per ticket cancel fee, of course, three grand - ferk knows how they justify that price, I'll 100% guarantee they resold the seats - but no worries, the travel insurance would cover that. We had bought the tickets on the credit card, so were covered - so I thought.

Turns out the company doing the travel insurance for the bank (Chartis) only covers travel disruption caused by the death of a person in NZ, says the small print. But... there was no point in me flying the family over to see someone no longer there, so we had no option but to cancel the flights. Result: me buggered, no cover.

In a sense it's a fair cop, it's in their policy doc (which I had to request from them in print form because you can't download it from the bank website), and if I had taken the time to do this I would have known this when I bought the tickets. (Who does that, though?) I doubt I would have chosen another product anyway - I was buying the tickets on the card regardless, so had cover. I can just see me saying "actually dear, I might go buy some more travel insurance just in case your mother dies in the next few months". Not so likely.

Anyway, back to the main topic - privatising accident insurance is not a good solution, for the main reason that the insurers are bigger bastards than ACC is.

[Mom]

Anyway, back to the main topic - privatising accident insurance is not a good solution, for the main reason that the insurers are bigger bastards than ACC is.

:Offtopic:

Taking you back to the bank insurance policy for a moment - I would caution anyone who has insurance of any kind via their bank to read the fine print very carefully. I got burgled a few years ago, small shit stolen in the night while we were sleeping. When I made a claim on my policy I got tangled up in items used in business. My policy was limited to $1000. Problem arose because I used my dining room table to write up invoices, the sofa in the lounge for my staff to drink coffe on at break times etc. Talk about wriggle. Anyway back to topic.

[NZsarge]

Yeah I dropped my bike about 5 weeks ago, Ambo was called but after examination and a conflab with Ambo staff I declined a ride to hospital as it was'nt in the end worth it, went to the Doc a couple of days later as I was feeling pretty tweaked and stretched and my ankle was'nt up to working. No bill for the Ambo so i'm guessing it came under the ACC claim with the week off work...

[LilSel]

I've only ever had to take one ambulance ride, was about 7 years ago, I asked to drive myself to the hospital cuz I didn't want to leave my car at the A&E but they said "NO" (I'd driven myself there in the first place lol, not for an accident however). When I got out of hospital about a week later, got bill for $66.50 in the mail for the ride from Botany Downs to Middlemore hospital.

Sounds pretty off that you'd get a bill when you didn't actually take a ride in the 'bus' aye... Xmas eve about 5 or 6 years ago (well technically xmas day as was past midnight) my brother picked me up from work & on the way home we were T-boned, an ambulance was called by whom I dont know but they checked me out as I was a bit dazed & confused, just wanted to get home (was turning into the street our street is off that it happened) however so didnt take a ride with them as wasn't that bad (pretty bad concussion, slept most of that xmas day lol) & I never got a bill for that :)

[duckonin]

Never I repeat Never trust ACC and always be very careful how you construct a letter, Acc staff are not to be trusted even if the person who works there is your friend.

[MacD]

That is because you are in a subsidised scheme via your employment. Go and give yourself a huge shock and find out the actual cost for an individual get the same cover you currently have under your subsidised scheme.

Yep, around $400 per month for individual health insurance according to this article (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-15-insurance-costs_N.htm). We should also add the cost of income protection insurance to get an equivalency with ACC as well .

The link between work and health insurance make unemployment a double disaster in the US, no income and no health cover. Unsurprisingly, medical debt accounts for some 60% of bankruptcies (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/american_journal_of_medicine_09.pdf) in the USA.

[Mully]

I love the way a simple administrative error (St John cocked up an invoice and sent it to OP instead of ACC) turned into a "National are fucking with ACC - it's a PLOT!!" thread.

I think we may need to issue tin-foil hats with our pitchforks and flaming torches going forward.

OP - send the invoice back to St John, with a note saying; "I believe this charge is covered under ACC. My ACC claim number is XYZ. Please invoice this to ACC". I bet nothing more will come of it.