White poppies - an insult to our vets?

[Tank]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3603373/Rival-poppy-campaign-angers-veterans

War veterans are angry that Peace Movement Aotearoa is running a white poppy fundraiser just a day before the annual RSA red poppy day street appeal.

Veterans' Affairs Minister Judith Collins said the white poppy appeal was "incredibly disrespectful to those who served their country".

"Peace Movement Aotearoa should be ashamed of themselves," she said.

World War II veteran George Jones, 88, of Lower Hutt, said: "They should get off the RSA's patch and hold their appeal at least six months away from Anzac Day.

"Red poppies pay homage to the soldiers, what they did and what they had to put up with.

"They say they're for peace, but doing it the day before our day is picking a fight." ... conts see link

http://static.stuff.co.nz/1271759785/372/3603372.jpg


What do you think. Personally I think its disgusting. Our Vets gave more than we can ever imagine for us, and sadly time is making us forget.

[rustyrobot]

I dont see this as a 'conflict'. My granfather was staunchly anti-war. He lost an eye and most of his hearing in WWII. It's poor timing, but personally I dont think it's bad taste. Having Boobs on Bikes the same weekend? Well, that's poor taste IMHO.

[mashman]

Whilst there's something to be said for promoting peace... I would have thought the day afterwards would have been more appropriate.

[Tank]

Whilst there's something to be said for promoting peace... I would have thought the day afterwards would have been more appropriate.

Now that is a good idea!

[slowpoke]

Perfect timing I reckon, and in no way diminishes what our soldiers went through. While honouring their sacrifice is important surely the most important thing is to try and end having to make the sacrfice in the first place?

Or is war just a perpetual human state, one that all era's have to endure?

Nup, the "disgusting" thing is that young men go away to die and have absolutely no idea what for. We are happy to buy the poppies, happy to rock up to the dawn parade, and happy to blindly elect the politicians that put them in harms way.

But is it really the politician's fault? Most of us would rather watch a game of (insert trivial sport here) than follow anything remotely political, something that will actually affect our lives and the lives of our children.

[Headbanger]

I don't see it as an issue, I would have thought a peace poppy could reside right along side one commemorating what the soliders endured.

If we want to talk disrespect, then the issue of young cunts bashing war vets (fuck it, any elderly person) who sacrificed so much to protect a country so some filthy cunts can spit out fuckwit kids who assult them in carparks.

Utter fucking filth.

[rainman]

What do you think. Personally I think its disgusting. Our Vets gave more than we can ever imagine for us, and sadly time is making us forget.

That they did. However much of a peacenik I am, and how much I think war is disgusting, I am grateful to those who went and fought. The white poppies are a reminder for us to strive to never get into the same situation again; the red of what happens when we do.


Whilst there's something to be said for promoting peace... I would have thought the day afterwards would have been more appropriate.

I think Mr Mashman has the right idea here. Doesn't need to be six months apart, but at the same time is bad optics.

[Big Dave]

I think it's cheap and contrived and disrespectful and cashing in on the sacrifices that makes it possible for them to have the freedom to be there in the first place. If any of them come near me they will get a gobful.

A more suitable time and I'd probably buy one.

[oldrider]

Catch 22 isn't it, they died that we may live in peace and we are "fighting" over how it should be expressed! :wacko: Humans! :rolleyes: WTF?

Kill them all! :shifty:

[bogan]

I agree with mashman, day afterwards is far more appropriate, sort of like, we comemorate those who died fro our country, now we must work towards peace so it does not happen again. And if anyone trys to sell me one thats what I'll tell them.

[mashman]

I agree with mashman, day afterwards is far more appropriate, sort of like, we comemorate those who died fro our country, now we must work towards peace so it does not happen again. And if anyone trys to sell me one thats what I'll tell them.

Good strap line for it.

[Maha]

As long as there is no Tall Poppy's then all is good.

[Mully]

Didn't they fight for freedom? It's a bit "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Personally, I think it's a bit disrespectful to do it on the same day and use the poppy.


World War II veteran George Jones, 88, of Lower Hutt, said: "They should get off the RSA's patch and hold their appeal at least six months away from Anzac Day.


At least six months away from ANZAC Day? Could it be further?

At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them

Lest we forget.

[onearmedbandit]

I think it's cheap and contrived and disrespectful and cashing in on the sacrifices that makes it possible for them to have the freedom to be there in the first place. If any of them come near me they will get a gobful.

A more suitable time and I'd probably buy one.

Agreed 100%. Forget the politics of war, the waste of young lives, how 'peace' is better. These guys, younger tham most on the forum, gave up the ease and comfort of their lives to fight a battle so that we could have the freedom we enjoy today. Respect that.

[MisterD]

What do you think. Personally I think its disgusting. Our Vets gave more than we can ever imagine for us, and sadly time is making us forget.

Damn right it's cheap and disgusting. They've timed their white poppy thing precisely to gain publicity from the reaction they knew would happen...it's deliberate and it's cynical and if I see anyone hawking these things, I'll be letting them know my views in no uncertain terms.

[stig]

I think its disrespectful.
For me, red poppies and Anzac day are a celebration of peace,

Having it the day before is provocative and has a condescending "holier than thou" attitude, insinuating that what the Anzacs sacrificed was somehow wrong.
Yes war is stupid, but giving everyone in nazi Germany a puppy and a hug wasn't going to make it go away.

[Swoop]

White poppy?
White feather might be more appropriate.

[avgas]

Ummm when did Peace need to be promoted? Its that like promoting "Lower Taxes"?
As for the white poppy appeal - what the fuck does "Peace Movement Aotearoa" actually do.
I am sick of people in the country thinking they start a Non-Profit for no reason, do no work - and expect the public to pay their salaries through donations.
Note to those out there who don't know. Non-Profit => Revenue - Expenses = $0.........so if you increase the expenses you can ask for more revenue.
BMW's are going cheap now too.

[rustyrobot]

You know what I find so interesting is all the people who talk about the 'freedom' that these brave men and women died for whilst fighting against evil Hitler and his hordes, but then go on to spout horrible racist, anti-semitic, homophobic slurs themselves. Sometime I wonder which side they are really supporting.

I agree with the idea of Red Poppy, white feather. And another day where we denounce all the gutless politicians who send people away to die for bullshit reasons and NEVER have to go themselves.

[Oscar]

Why?
Why do they have to do it now?
Or at all for that matter?

Why do they have to make their point by slurring other people?
There are plenty of others days they could do this (Armistice Day Nov 11th springs to mind) and white poppies for peace would be taken as a reasonable gesture.

But on ANZAC day?
You can only conclude that they're having a go at those poor bastids who suffered.
Fuck them - they better not come near me.

[rustyrobot]

Its not ON anzac day and I dont see them slurring other people. Will you do the same for the boobs on bikes people? Steve Crow bought an RSA and painted over the mural of old soldiers then pretty much told the people who actually use the place that they had no rights. Don't see anyone getting outraged over him. Oh no, someone talking about peace is faaaar more offensive. Funny lot here.

[EJK]

They forgot to dye it the night before. That's all...

[Oscar]

Its not ON anzac day and I dont see them slurring other people. Will you do the same for the boobs on bikes people? Steve Crow bought an RSA and painted over the mural of old soldiers then pretty much told the people who actually use the place that they had no rights. Don't see anyone getting outraged over him. Oh no, someone talking about peace is faaaar more offensive. Funny lot here.

On, or the day before ANZAC day - it's still hard to go past the idea that it's a dig at the veterans, otherwise why choose a White Poppy?
ANZAC Day is a day for the people that died, were wounded or just served. Most of 'em didn't do it because they liked war, but out of a sense of duty.
Having someone crapping on about peace the day before ANZAC day and effectively trying to hijack the day is crass (as crass as Mr. Crow).
If they really wanted to make a statement about peace, they'd be helping the old soldiers and their families on ANZAC day and every other day.

[pzkpfw]

They can piss off.

(And use November 11th if they must...)

[raftn]

I think it's cheap and contrived and disrespectful and cashing in on the sacrifices that makes it possible for them to have the freedom to be there in the first place. If any of them come near me they will get a gobful.

A more suitable time and I'd probably buy one.

You have a way of saying, so much better than I could!

[Big Dave]

Of course the good thing is that you can comfortably rark 'em up - what are they going to do about it - throw their flowers?

[riffer]

I think it's cheap and contrived and disrespectful and cashing in on the sacrifices that makes it possible for them to have the freedom to be there in the first place. If any of them come near me they will get a gobful.

A more suitable time and I'd probably buy one.

This is exactly my opinion too. Thanks for saving my time by writing it for me Dave.


On, or the day before ANZAC day - it's still hard to go past the idea that it's a dig at the veterans, otherwise why choose a White Poppy?

I'm sure my great-great-great uncle in law, Cyril Bassett, would not be happy. The timing (and use of the poppy) is offensive.

[Big Dave]

Thanks for saving my time by writing it for me Dave.

.

Your Grammar could be better. :-)

[riffer]

Your Grammar could be better. :-)

Well, true. She's actually dead.

[Big Dave]

Coincidence would be if it was from a plural overdoses.

[riffer]

Coincidence would be if it was from a plural overdoses.

Nah - more like pleurisy...

[spajohn]

Apologies if I've repeated anyone as I've only skimmed this but where does the money go from the white poppy's? I assume the red one goes to the vet's which surely ANZAC day is all about remembering. When we have headlines of war vet's living out the last of their days in grotty flats not being looked after surely there should be concern with a competing charity?

[rustyrobot]

...where does the money go from the white poppy's?

From the stuff article:
"The white poppy is a long-standing international symbol of remembrance and peace and we wanted to have it around Anzac Day because that's the day that's most appropriate for New Zealand."

Last year it raised about $5000, enough for three scholarships. All money collected in the appeal was going to peace scholarships, which were available to assist research on "the impacts of militarism, militarisation and warfare; alternatives to militarism, warfare, or collective non-violent responses to state violence".

One of the first scholarships was awarded to Victoria University student Marianne Bevan to fund a visit to East Timor to study militarisation, violence and gender issues in the country's recently established police force.

[spajohn]

Well then I say the white poppy's should bugger off, at least til the day after, so the collections are focused on the vet's that gave up so much.

[Oscar]

From the stuff article:
"The white poppy is a long-standing international symbol of remembrance and peace and we wanted to have it around Anzac Day because that's the day that's most appropriate for New Zealand."

Last year it raised about $5000, enough for three scholarships. All money collected in the appeal was going to peace scholarships, which were available to assist research on "the impacts of militarism, militarisation and warfare; alternatives to militarism, warfare, or collective non-violent responses to state violence".

One of the first scholarships was awarded to Victoria University student Marianne Bevan to fund a visit to East Timor to study militarisation, violence and gender issues in the country's recently established police force.

I've just twigged...
These are the bastards that just cost the tax payers $1.5m for repairs to Waihopai, aren't they?

What a bunch of cahnts.

[riffer]

I've just twigged...
These are the bastards that just cost the tax payers $1.5m for repairs to Waihopai, aren't they?

What a bunch of cahnts.


Obviously raising money for the civil trial.

[rustyrobot]

No, it's not the same people at all. Dont let that stop you ranting and raving and foaming at the mouth though :)

[Oscar]

No, it's not the same people at all. Dont let that stop you ranting and raving and foaming at the mouth though :)

Have a look on their web site, there are blogs in support for the defendants and reports of support meetings held..
A bunch of cahnts, as I said.

[Stormer]

Bloody peacenics!!!
Piss off and create your own scene, without latching onto the ones who actually were out there fighting and dying for the peace you now live in.

If I see any of these gutless fools out selling, they`ll cop a heap of abuse that`s for bloody sure!

[Robert Taylor]

Bloody peacenics!!!
Piss off and create your own scene, without latching onto the ones who actually were out there fighting and dying for the peace you now live in.

If I see any of these gutless fools out selling, they`ll cop a heap of abuse that`s for bloody sure!

I agree entirely with your sentiments.

WW1 was a futile war but WW2 was wholly justified in getting rid of 3 pyschopathic regimes. If all of our forebears had bent over and taken it we likely wouldnt have been here now.

Ive got no time for pacifist dogma and never will have.

[Okey Dokey]

I think it's cheap and contrived and disrespectful and cashing in on the sacrifices that makes it possible for them to have the freedom to be there in the first place. If any of them come near me they will get a gobful.

A more suitable time and I'd probably buy one.

Yes, they come across as just trying to get media exposure. Sadly, it reminded me of the anti-war protestors who spat on the soldiers returning from Vietnam in the US. I have no time for their white poppies.

[Mudfart]

say it with your wallets.
dont buy the white poppies, and they will get the idea and fuk off. im pissed im working anzac parade morning (sunday). or i would have ridden to browns bay RSA. its where i was born and raised.

[Dave Lobster]

Wouldn't a yellow poppy be more suitable for their cause?

They could pin them on their yellow bellies.

I bet none of them have been to a conflict themselves. Just seen it on the TV. It's not the fucking same.

[rustic101]

The timing of this is not great in fact I will stop short of saying insensitive.

As an ex Serviceman having served in three operational theatres. I do not fine the concept insulting at all. I'm not able to talk for others, however my personal time served and observations have changed my view on life.

Service personnel are A Political. Ours is not to reason why, simply do or die.. If you agree or not, if you like it or not, the political masters dictate the terms and conditions and you are there to serve their rule. The vast majority of service personnel who have been exposed to the horrors and tragedies including the after affects are sickened by the actions generated at the direction of war - for what a piece of land? A few riches and mineral wealth? to allow a political positioning for future gain?

I have talked to a number of guys serving in WWII, Korea, Vietnam as well as more recent conflicts and most disagree with war - Most are sickened by what they have seen and or done, again - for what?

My 5c worth.

[Swoop]

...where does the money go from the white poppy's? I assume the red one goes to the vet's which surely ANZAC day is all about remembering.
Money from the RED POPPY appeal goes to the RSA's to help the returned servicemen and women.

The people behind the white poppy sham are NOT a registered charity!

Fuck, I look forward to seeing one of those fuckers on the street...

[Hitcher]

"White poppies" are a cynical attempt by a bunch of tree huggers to cash in on public sentiment for ANZACs and other returned servicepeople.

It's exactly the same strategy SAFE employs with its fundraising -- they want people to confuse them with the SPCA.

[scumdog]

I think it's cheap and contrived and disrespectful and cashing in on the sacrifices that makes it possible for them to have the freedom to be there in the first place. If any of them come near me they will get a gobful.

A more suitable time and I'd probably buy one.

Can't give you bling 'must spread...etc'

But spot on anyway!

[scumdog]

From the stuff article:
"The white poppy is a long-standing international symbol of remembrance and peace .

Yeah, really?

I've seen more white moas than I have white poppies.....

[Toaster]

Why dont they just sell opium poppies and make some REAL money for the RSA and stop dicking around with plastic.

On a serious note, anyone read the Kapiti News tonight about the Kapiti Heroes? My Grandad (Eric) was one of the war vets featured. We had his 90th recently. So nice to see several war vets get such a glowing article about them.

[Big Dave]

The north of Tasmania has large valleys that go white with commercially grown Opium Poppies in season.

[Toaster]

large valleys that go white.

Sounds like Heaven!

[Pussy]

Haven't read the whole thread.... but it sucks!
The ANZACS deserve respect... they have earned it

[Gone Burger]

On a serious note, anyone read the Kapiti News tonight about the Kapiti Heroes? My Grandad (Eric) was one of the war vets featured. We had his 90th recently. So nice to see several war vets get such a glowing article about them.

You should be very proud Toaster. I know that I will be very proud at the dawn parade thinking of my grandpa. Great article to keep for years to come.

[Toaster]

You should be very proud Toaster. I know that I will be very proud at the dawn parade thinking of my grandpa. Great article to keep for years to come.

I have a photo somewhere of Grandad attending his first parade with me when I was with the Navy. Both officers (he was RNZAF) and I knew he just loved it.

He never wanted to discuss the war and his medals were up until then still in the paper bag in which he received them.

His brother died in the war.... shot down I believe. All he got was a note saying he had died... talk about stiff upper lip stuff.

[Hoon]

Not impressed. Not only bad taste and bad timing but the white poppies look shit. A blatant attempt to piggyback on a successful resurgence of ANZAC day popularity by trying to get people to buy a white poppy along with their red one.

I'm all for peace but although both parties share the same goal, their methods of reaching it are in direct conflict. I bet peace activists wouldn't like it if the Army were to run recruiting stands at their next event going "Howdy son, come wrap yer hands round this here peace maker!!".

If anyone tries to sell me one I'll kindly tell them to come back on Monday then I'll be glad too.

[Hoon]

From the stuff article:One of the first scholarships was awarded to Victoria University student Marianne Bevan to fund a visit to East Timor to study militarisation, violence and gender issues in the country's recently established police force.

They wisely chose not to mention the other scholarship recipient:

<TABLE border=0 width=570><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>Ryan Bodman <BIG>Ryan is completing a Post Graduate Diploma in Arts in the Department of History at the University of Auckland. His dissertation is on the Passive Resisters Union (PRU).</BIG>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Under the 1909 Defence Act, all young men between 12 and 21 (later amended to 14 - 25) were lawfully required to train in the military. The PRU was established in early 1912 to peacefully resist this policy. Only young men directly affected by the policy were able to join the union, which had as its goal "to resist coercion, conscription and military training in all its circumstances and defy all penalties that may be imposed".

[scumdog]

His brother died in the war.... shot down I believe. All he got was a note saying he had died... talk about stiff upper lip stuff.

Yep, similar here: "Your husband is missing in action. We do not know if he is dead or captured" (end of telegraph).

[Oakie]

World War II veteran George Jones, 88, of Lower Hutt, said: "They should get off the RSA's patch and hold their appeal at least six months away from Anzac Day.

Ha ha. It's kind of impossible to hold it more than 6 months away from an ANZAC Day. (Perhaps the fella was being clever that's exactly what he meant?)

Nevertheless, yeah, I agree. Riding on the coat-tails of the organisation to which you are philosophically opposed to is a bit low.

[Forest]

I have a lot of respect for veterans.

But I have absolutely no respect for the RSA.

[pete376403]

November 11 (armistice day) would be the ideal day for it (white poppies)
Also if judith collins is so upset about the RSA missing out on some money, why doesn't her government provide a bit more for for vets welfare, instead of making them dependant on charity from the public. Two faced bitch.

[Toaster]

Yep, similar here: "Your husband is missing in action. We do not know if he is dead or captured" (end of telegraph).

They sure lacked tact in those days!

[mashman]

why doesn't her government provide a bit more for for vets welfare, instead of making them dependant on charity from the public. Two faced bitch.

Because that's reserved for MP's i recently found out.

[SS90]

Ummm when did Peace need to be promoted? Its that like promoting "Lower Taxes"?
As for the white poppy appeal - what the fuck does "Peace Movement Aotearoa" actually do.
I am sick of people in the country thinking they start a Non-Profit for no reason, do no work - and expect the public to pay their salaries through donations.
Note to those out there who don't know. Non-Profit => Revenue - Expenses = $0.........so if you increase the expenses you can ask for more revenue.
BMW's are going cheap now too.

I agree. I see this as another free loader looking to get an easy ride thinly veiled as a "charity", and, even worse, climbing on the back of our veterans.

White Poppies for sale during the week of ANZAC day? huh? WTF?, just to send some idealistic little greenies to study problems in other countries? WTF? What about our own problems? What about sending some spotty faced scholarship receiving git to a town in NZ that has violence problems of it's own? Wanganui maybe? That won't cost 5K, far from it.

Bah! this stuff makes me livid. We have all seen the Vet's out on the street collecting, and, all they receive is cheaper Beer at the RSA in the evenings, nothing more, and not too far away, they will all be gone, and we will be left with the few Vietnam vets we have, after that, it's my generations turn and Timour Vets will be doing their bit.

To dirty this tradition with the concept of tapping into the publics wallets with powerful imagery (such as a poppy), to send snot faced bludgers to another country to study what? war and inequality of women.....why? NZ has a system that Women have MORE rights that men, so why the hell do we want to send someone somewhere else to study it? Violence/war? have they read the papers?

I say boycot the white Poppy, no matter what colour it is.

If they change it to a white dove or someshitlikethat, and, to another day (I think November 11th was the armistace of ww1), then perhaps it would be acceptable (but keep the money in NZ to help NZ)

[Horney1]

I think it's disrespectful.

For me Anzac day is a special day celebrating a bond and a common need which traverses borders . It also reminds us of the tragic cost of war. Anzac Day is certainly already a day to contemplate peace.

[oldrider]

The "truth" behind this must be very close to becoming public knowledge by now, can anybody post it clearly, concisely and correctly yet? :mellow:

[Lias]

Even if I had a high opinion of PMA, I'd think this was disrespectful and ill timed. Given what I know about them I think its intentionaly disrespectful, and done with the clear intent of causing controversy and media attention.

PMA are basically professional extreme left rent a crowd (Think John Minto). They've protested against so much shit over the years its rediculous. They are not simply Anti War (most people are anti war, even soldiers!), but they are into the whole "Human Rights" and "Social Justice" bullshit.

If you see someone selling white poppies, please feel free to beat them to the ground. If it's anywhere near Hamilton, PM me so I can come give them a taste of pain, I wore my steelcaps to work today just hoping I'd see one on the streets but no joy so far. Once they are lying in a pool of blood, take their white poppies and dye them red with their blood. Problem solved.

These people are prime examples of the saying "Some people are alive only beause its illegal to kill them".

[Gone Burger]

Well, I am wearing my RED poppy today, and very proudly. Was asked to donate for a white one, and didn't even consider it for a minute. Wearing a red poppy means too much me for, to be able to show my respects to all those that deserve them.

[JMemonic]

Thanks to all those who have commented along the lines of its disrespectful and basicly they can take a long walk off a short pier. I cant bling you all. My belief is ANZAC day is a day of remembrance for us, and I am pissed off at the wingers who want to have another "holiday" if it falls on a weekend, fuck them, what would they do with the day just go to the mall shopping, they only lose half a day of that mindless consumerism anyhow, mind you these are the same prats that would have retail open on our stat days anyhow. There seems to be no respect in society any more.

Parents please teach your kids what this day means, many returned home from the various wars and conflicts changed, whilst they may have been alive many wished they were dead, may still ask why did I survive, and others came home for all intents and purposes dead inside.

As to what the RSA does go to a cemetery and find the graves that are well tended with simple brass plagues, these are the ones tended by the organisation, if you can, take a relative in one of these a poppy.

[avgas]

JM, truth be told I do think people need time off work to put aside for day.
Being on a weekend, means pretty much I won't be able to attend. As week spills into the weekend for my work.
This doesn't happen when it is a public holiday - as 'everyone' is not working, and means no one expects me to.
I imagine my life is not to dissimilar to others. Which is disappointing.
You see if a holiday falls on a weekend - it basically means that if you have to work on the weekend, you have to work.
Was hoping to drive down to dads, hook up a bayonet and fire a few round from the 303 in respect.

[oldrider]

Was hoping to drive down to dads, hook up a bayonet and fire a few round from the 303 in respect.

Don't waste any bullets, take the rifle in where there are some decent targets (no hopers) and do a bit of weeding! :ar15: