Workshop problem: What would you do?

[-df-]

Hi,

Had a problem with my local bike shop (well, their workshop to be exact) and I'm kinda pissed off about the situation, just wondering if you guys can think of anything I can do other then a MTA complaint (which I'll be doing).

So the story goes... (warning...bit of a rant!)

Got on my bike to go somewhere, was running late and it was rush hour so figured the bike would be the quickest way there...as soon as I put the bike in gear it would stall, basically the clutch was still gripping even when fully disengaged (lever in), once it warmed right up I was able to get it in gear with a few revs and off I went (if I had switched to car I would have missed what I was trying to get to) clutch didn't come right, and had to pop it in neutral at lights, etc, etc. EDIT: Sorry, this part is not quite right...once warmed right up, I could hold the bike at the lights with clutch in with it gripping a little (tiny bit of throttle and it wouldn't stall)

A few days later I went back to the bike and adjusted the clutch cable to see if it was just stretched a bit...wound it right out, clutch still engaged when the lever was in, and now it would slip when I gave it a hand full of throttle (due to it being semi disengaged due to me adjusting the cable).

At that point I decided to take it into my local shop, explained what was happening (clutch always partially engaged, adjusted the cable to see if it was just stretched, but it was still happening and of cause its now slipping due to the adjustment...I made sure I pointed that out to the guy in the workshop), guy at the shop said all good, they will get back to me once they know what the problem is with a price.

They ring me up about a week or so later, saying its the clutch and it needed replacing, I said sweet as, give me a bell when its all sorted.

I get a text about another week or so later saying bikes all sorted, come pick it up. Awesome I thought, just in time for the weekend and I had been dying for a ride tbh (hadn't had a proper ride for ages). I go and pay my money, get on my bike, start it up, put it in gear...stall...hmmm, again...stall...hmmm, again....stall...nope, bike is exactly the same as when I took it into them after spending over $600 to get clutch done (and new sump gasket)! So pointed it out to the guy in the workshop, he said sorry, will have a look at it tomorrow...all good I guess, people make mistakes...I then walk back home bikeless.

I ring them a week later to find out whats going on, guy says oh, the clutch perch is the wrong one...thats causing the problem (wait...thats been on the bike ever since I had it...but anyway) so thats causing it to grip? yep he says...so why did the clutch get replaced as it was only slipping due to the adjustment on the clutch lever? I ask...oh, it was slipping so I replaced it...wait, I explained the situation when I brought the bike in...basically his response at that point....Not my problem...

So now I've spent $600 on a new clutch that I didn't need, and still have to spend $200 for a new lever and perch.

I rang them back up after I'd cooled down a bit asked to speak to someone about the situation and was put on with some guy, asked what they would do about it...nothing, except put the new perch on for another $200...which I promptly told them to bugger off I'll take it to someone that knows what the hell they are doing! (well, its a perch...I think I can handle that myself!)

Picked up the bike last night, after stalling it about 5 times trying to get it into gear up the hill (outside there workshop) I finally got it home...still stuffed, but hey...its got a new clutch...

I think its pretty stink that they have miscommunicated within the workshop (guessing that's whats happened, guy I spoke to prob didn't write down all I said...although you'd also expect the mechanic to notice the adjustment was right out...but anyway, not blaming him in this) and now I have to foot the bill...I'd have been happy enough if they had offered something back (like put the perch on for free)...not expecting to get the new clutch for free (even tho I didn't need it, or want it as it wasn't the problem)

Every shop makes mistakes...its how they sort them out that shows what they are made of.

So what would you do? What rights do I have?

[mattian]

you have rights under the consumer garuntees act. If you paid for a service and the service or, commitment to fillfull that service wasn't done then by every right you deserve a refund.
I am not a law expert but, this is my rudimentary understanding.

[jim.cox]

Every shop makes mistakes...its how they sort them out that shows what they are made of.

Absolutely agree


So what would you do?

Me? I'd look the shop foreman straight in the eye, and mention my concerns.

And see what his reponse is

Its the "putting it right" attitude that counts

But itis also more than that

Its do I have I have confidence in him. Do I trust him? Is he being honest with me? And do I have confidence in their work in future

You can always cut your losses, walk away and never be back

I think it "unfortunate" that the new clutch did not fix the problem. I think it is reasonable to expect a new clutch (&& cable) given your problem description

But it is symptomatic that the shop didnt actually test to see if they had actually fixed the problem, and returnd the bike to you still faulty

All in, you're not in a bad position - it wont take much to sort - and you could do all that work yourself....

[-df-]

Absolutely agree


Me? I'd look the shop foreman straight in the eye, and mention my concerns.

And see what his reponse is

Its the "putting it right" attitude that counts

But itis also more than that

Its do I have I have confidence in him. Do I trust him? Is he being honest with me? And do I have confidence in their work in future

You can always cut your losses, walk away and never be back

I think it "unfortunate" that the new clutch did not fix the problem. I think it is reasonable to expect a new clutch (&& cable) given your problem description

But it is symptomatic that the shop didnt actually test to see if they had actually fixed the problem, and returnd the bike to you still faulty

All in, you're not in a bad position - it wont take much to sort - and you could do all that work yourself....

I talked to them over the phone...when I went and picked the bike up I just walked in, got my keys and left (well, tried to leave, lol)...

I definatly wont be going back there...hell, not even sure why I went back there this time, when I got them to sort out a few small things on the bike when it was first painted (e.g. bike had never been riden with this paint job) they ended up scratching/marking the paint! Didn't bother doing anything at the time as I'd already taken it home before I noticed...and well, my word against theirs...if they were going to say/do somethign they would have at the time of pick up.

I seem to have to be bitten twice before I learn my leason!!

[SMOKEU]

That's typical of todays 'mechanics'. Too many of them are idiots who think they can fix anything, but they just end up making it worse. It happened to me at a 'reputable' Honda dealer once.

[CookMySock]

The whole thing sounds a bit absurd. How can they possibly get it this wrong? Did they not test ride it before and after?

Take it back and discuss.

Steve

[scracha]

Next time pay via credit card. Gives you a lot more protection as you can dispute transactions.

[Smifffy]

Write down something very similar to what you just wrote here. Make it a bit less ranty, eg short simple statements of on this day I did this bit. I explained such and such to this person. On this date I called etc. Address it to the manager of the shop. Explain your concerns and that you are disappointed. Point out that while you didn't need a new clutch, you accept that it was fitted and will pay for it. Point out that you have paid them $600, and were without the bike for weeks, and the bike still has the same problem that you took it to them for. Politely ask them to reply to you, outlining their plan for remedying the situation.

Be polite, but firm, perhaps mention that one of the reasons you chose the workshop was their MTA membership.

Don't tell them you are never going back and will trash their business all over the net. Let them understand that this is an opportunity to put it right, and keep you as a valued customer.

Write down all the details of the contacts and events that have happened so far, the date,time and content of the txts, keep them as a record, and keep a copy of the letter you send. If you do decide to go to the MTA you will have good records of the sequence of events, and proof that you have asked politely for the issue to be put right.

The ball will be firmly back in their court.

[-df-]

Next time pay via credit card. Gives you a lot more protection as you can dispute transactions.

Never thought of that...might do that next time I make a payment.

Although I think next time I'll test the fix before paying for it.

[-df-]

Write down something very similar to what you just wrote here. Make it a bit less ranty, eg short simple statements of on this day I did this bit. I explained such and such to this person. On this date I called etc. Address it to the manager of the shop. Explain your concerns and that you are disappointed. Point out that while you didn't need a new clutch, you accept that it was fitted and will pay for it. Point out that you have paid them $600, and were without the bike for weeks, and the bike still has the same problem that you took it to them for. Politely ask them to reply to you, outlining their plan for remedying the situation.

Be polite, but firm, perhaps mention that one of the reasons you chose the workshop was their MTA membership.

Don't tell them you are never going back and will trash their business all over the net. Let them understand that this is an opportunity to put it right, and keep you as a valued customer.

Write down all the details of the contacts and events that have happened so far, the date,time and content of the txts, keep them as a record, and keep a copy of the letter you send. If you do decide to go to the MTA you will have good records of the sequence of events, and proof that you have asked politely for the issue to be put right.

The ball will be firmly back in their court.

That sounds like a good plan.

One of their people have been in contact with me through the forum in regard to this thread, so maybe it will still all come right.

[-df-]

Well, the good news is a guy selling the clutch perch and lever (new) on TM got back to me about purchasing those...$60 for both (a bit better then the $200 quoted, and the $170 from another shop, gotta love TM some times).

I'll see if that sorts the problem this weekend.

[Crisis management]

Well, the good news is a guy selling the clutch perch and lever (new) on TM got back to me about purchasing those...$60 for both (a bit better then the $200 quoted, and the $170 from another shop, gotta love TM some times).

I'll see if that sorts the problem this weekend.

Am I missing something here...the bike & clutch have been operating correctly for a time, then a fault develops (clutch not disengaging) and you think that replacing the lever perch is going to fix this? Is the existing perch worn and not allowing full movement of the lever?

Regardless of whether the perch is at fault the workshop should have fixed the fault not just replaced some parts for the hell of it.

[-df-]

Am I missing something here...the bike & clutch have been operating correctly for a time, then a fault develops (clutch not disengaging) and you think that replacing the lever perch is going to fix this? Is the existing perch worn and not allowing full movement of the lever?

Regardless of whether the perch is at fault the workshop should have fixed the fault not just replaced some parts for the hell of it.

Well, its sounded strange to me...but for $60 I'm willing to try.

Aparently it has the wrong perch for the lever, so when you pull lever in, it gets to a certain point and even tho lever goes in more, the cable doesn't get pulled anymore.

But yeah...that has never been changed, and was on the bike when I got it...so doubtful, but willing to try.

[Crisis management]

But yeah...that has never been changed, and was on the bike when I got it...so doubtful, but willing to try.

I hate to say it, but all you are doing is trying to hide the real fault, not fix it. Good luck anyway.

[Smifffy]

This sounds pretty weird.

I suggest also that if you want to pursue some form of remedy from the workshop that you don't do any work related to the problem yourself, until it is resolved to your satisfaction.

[Yorkshire Dave]

I'd be spewing. If they've made a mistake then fair dos, these things happen, but the "not my problem" attitude would have boiled my p*ss. It's the attitude and what they do afterwards that counts. If they don't give a toss, then I'd imagine you'd have to go through the claims court if you ever want to see any of the money again, so you've got to wonder if it's worth the hassel. Just name and shame and bad mouth them to anyone who will listen. You'll cost them a hell of a lot more than $600 in lost buisiness.

[mini rant] I recently had my p&j written off by the garage when they were srvicing it. I'm absolutely gutted but these things happen. By far the worst thing though was the p*ss poor attitude of the owner. He didn't give a toss. Needless to say, I haven't been recommending them to people... [/mini rant]

[-df-]

I hate to say it, but all you are doing is trying to hide the real fault, not fix it. Good luck anyway.

If its not the problem, it wont fix it...so can't see how thats hiding the real fault?

[howdamnhard]

Next time use Motorcycle Doctor. I'm through with dealer shops. He charges reasonable prices and you can watch him work and learn. He comes to you .
Good luck with getting your bike sorted.

[HenryDorsetCase]

its not a stuffed clutch cable is it?

[HenryDorsetCase]

I'd be spewing. If they've made a mistake then fair dos, these things happen, but the "not my problem" attitude would have boiled my p*ss. It's the attitude and what they do afterwards that counts. If they don't give a toss, then I'd imagine you'd have to go through the claims court if you ever want to see any of the money again, so you've got to wonder if it's worth the hassel. Just name and shame and bad mouth them to anyone who will listen. You'll cost them a hell of a lot more than $600 in lost buisiness.

[mini rant] I recently had my p&j written off by the garage when they were srvicing it. I'm absolutely gutted but these things happen. By far the worst thing though was the p*ss poor attitude of the owner. He didn't give a toss. Needless to say, I haven't been recommending them to people... [/mini rant]

I like the phrase "Boil my piss" but dont know what a p&j is. edit: is it "pride and joy"?

[-df-]

its not a stuffed clutch cable is it?

Don't know TBH, before I took the bike in, I had adjusted it right out to see if it had stretched (is there another way they can become stufed? ignoring fraying as its not catching) but it still gripped with lever in.

[-df-]

Next time use Motorcycle Doctor. I'm through with dealer shops. He charges reasonable prices and you can watch him work and learn. He comes to you .
Good luck with getting your bike sorted.

Yeah I've been hearing a few good things about him...I think that will be my next option if the new perch doesn't sort it out.

[Yorkshire Dave]

I like the phrase "Boil my piss" but dont know what a p&j is. edit: is it "pride and joy"?

Yep, Pride & Joy. I decided to take it to a proper Triumph Dealer as I thought they'd take care of it :rolleyes:

[Crisis management]

If its not the problem, it wont fix it...so can't see how thats hiding the real fault?

What I meant was:
The perch was on there before the problem occurred so is unlikely to be the source of the problem, replacing the perch seems a waste of time to me, time that would be better spent tracking down the real fault.
The advice given earlier about going back to the workshop and resolving your differences there is well worth following, you have paid them to find & repair this fault so get your monies worth.
If you chose to sort out the problem yourself them don't replace anything until you know what the problem is. If you need more cable movement adjust the cable until it is tight and see if it solves the problem, check the operation of everything, cable, any thrust shafts, clutch basket, assembly of plates...it is a simple mechanism that requires a certain movement to the clutch to disengage it.
Look and think first, spend money as a last resort.

[Paul in NZ]

would have been cheaper and faster to fix it yourself methinks....

[Jonno.]

Unless the perch is fucked don't buy a new one. You have rights under the CGA.

[roadracingoldfart]

That's typical of todays 'mechanics'. Too many of them are idiots who think they can fix anything, but they just end up making it worse. It happened to me at a 'reputable' Honda dealer once.


So if i get this post as it sounds .......
You have one bad experiance from a Honda shop in some hell hole and suddenly all mechanics are idiots !!!!

Ohh hell i am an idiot because i made a mistake once (thats the human side of me but i try to limit that aspect)


Paul.

[roadracingoldfart]

So what would you do?


I would ask the service manager politely to explain why the clutch was working ok for a period and then a problem occured , your bike was presented to his workshop for that fault and yet still has the original fault with work having been done to rectify it.

Basically customers diagnosis is never gospel and the symptom is the clue to the problem and tech school teaches a mechanic how to read a symptom.

Then ask him why the new clutch fitted wasnt able to remady the problem , then ask why the tech failed to test ride the bike resulting in him / her reporting an operation fault on the bike he just worked on (the clue here would be the note will read "clutch action out of range " ) or similar .
These sections are on the MTA work order sheet and i fill out this section several times a day to notify customers of a fault we have identified(if its a crutial fault we ring and ask if we can do it) .
Ask the service manage to give you a procceedure for complaints to the organisation they are a member of eg;MTA and does he have a membership number to quote.
Be polite but let him know you have a concern and yet the concern has not been taken seriously even though its been expressed to him and his staff.

Good luck.

Paul.

[SMOKEU]

So if i get this post as it sounds .......
You have one bad experiance from a Honda shop in some hell hole and suddenly all mechanics are idiots !!!!

Ohh hell i am an idiot because i made a mistake once (thats the human side of me but i try to limit that aspect)


Paul.

That Honda dealer made multiple mistakes on my Honda, and fucked it up so it was even worse than before, and then refused to admit their mistake. I can't be bothered explaining the whole thing, I've already explainded it in another thread.

[dipshit]

You have one bad experiance from a Honda shop in some hell hole and suddenly all mechanics are idiots !!!!

50% of bike mechanics in NZ are useless possibly.

So then the point being... do you take the gamble every time you take your bike in to a dealer..???

Will you be lucky and get a good one... or get a useless one..???

[imdying]

So if i get this post as it sounds .......
You have one bad experiance from a Honda shop in some hell hole and suddenly all mechanics are idiots !!!!He's telling lies, so you can add even less weight to his comments.

[roadracingoldfart]

50% of bike mechanics in NZ are useless possibly.

So then the point being... do you take the gamble every time you take your bike in to a dealer..???

Will you be lucky and get a good one... or get a useless one..???


I wont comment on the usless aspect of your post .... but .
The other side of the coin is this,
I was the service manager of a Honda shop and i left because of the appalling traetment i was told i had to support by managment . I was sickened by it and as motorcycling is generally a close knit society many of my customers were active friends as well . When i was asked to lie , cheat and generally rip customers off for work either not done , done to a very poor standard or just not neccessary i had no option but to leave and inform the relevant authorities of the antics carried out by the manager.
I was dragged through the courts but i won and i would do it again in a heart beat as anyone knowing me will attest to . I am now in the car industry as the foreman for a Ford & Mazda dealership and even though cars are the enemy to alot of bike riders , the internal self destructive politics does not exist like it does in the motorcycling industry.
Come to my work workshop and you will get good service , come to my garage for work on your bike and you probebly wont even get charged unless it costs me to do it.

Paul.

[Conquiztador]

Hi,

Had a problem with my local bike shop (well, their workshop to be exact) and I'm kinda pissed off about the situation, just wondering if you guys can think of anything I can do other then a MTA complaint (which I'll be doing).

So the story goes... (warning...bit of a rant!)

Got on my bike to go somewhere, was running late and it was rush hour so figured the bike would be the quickest way there...as soon as I put the bike in gear it would stall, basically the clutch was still gripping even when fully disengaged (lever in), once it warmed right up I was able to get it in gear with a few revs and off I went (if I had switched to car I would have missed what I was trying to get to) clutch didn't come right, and had to pop it in neutral at lights, etc, etc. EDIT: Sorry, this part is not quite right...once warmed right up, I could hold the bike at the lights with clutch in with it gripping a little (tiny bit of throttle and it wouldn't stall)

A few days later I went back to the bike and adjusted the clutch cable to see if it was just stretched a bit...wound it right out, clutch still engaged when the lever was in, and now it would slip when I gave it a hand full of throttle (due to it being semi disengaged due to me adjusting the cable).

At that point I decided to take it into my local shop, explained what was happening (clutch always partially engaged, adjusted the cable to see if it was just stretched, but it was still happening and of cause its now slipping due to the adjustment...I made sure I pointed that out to the guy in the workshop), guy at the shop said all good, they will get back to me once they know what the problem is with a price.

They ring me up about a week or so later, saying its the clutch and it needed replacing, I said sweet as, give me a bell when its all sorted.

I get a text about another week or so later saying bikes all sorted, come pick it up. Awesome I thought, just in time for the weekend and I had been dying for a ride tbh (hadn't had a proper ride for ages). I go and pay my money, get on my bike, start it up, put it in gear...stall...hmmm, again...stall...hmmm, again....stall...nope, bike is exactly the same as when I took it into them after spending over $600 to get clutch done (and new sump gasket)! So pointed it out to the guy in the workshop, he said sorry, will have a look at it tomorrow...all good I guess, people make mistakes...I then walk back home bikeless.

I ring them a week later to find out whats going on, guy says oh, the clutch perch is the wrong one...thats causing the problem (wait...thats been on the bike ever since I had it...but anyway) so thats causing it to grip? yep he says...so why did the clutch get replaced as it was only slipping due to the adjustment on the clutch lever? I ask...oh, it was slipping so I replaced it...wait, I explained the situation when I brought the bike in...basically his response at that point....Not my problem...

So now I've spent $600 on a new clutch that I didn't need, and still have to spend $200 for a new lever and perch.

I rang them back up after I'd cooled down a bit asked to speak to someone about the situation and was put on with some guy, asked what they would do about it...nothing, except put the new perch on for another $200...which I promptly told them to bugger off I'll take it to someone that knows what the hell they are doing! (well, its a perch...I think I can handle that myself!)

Picked up the bike last night, after stalling it about 5 times trying to get it into gear up the hill (outside there workshop) I finally got it home...still stuffed, but hey...its got a new clutch...

I think its pretty stink that they have miscommunicated within the workshop (guessing that's whats happened, guy I spoke to prob didn't write down all I said...although you'd also expect the mechanic to notice the adjustment was right out...but anyway, not blaming him in this) and now I have to foot the bill...I'd have been happy enough if they had offered something back (like put the perch on for free)...not expecting to get the new clutch for free (even tho I didn't need it, or want it as it wasn't the problem)

Every shop makes mistakes...its how they sort them out that shows what they are made of.

So what would you do? What rights do I have?

Sorry guys. I will not read all this. So here my reply:
Who ever you took it to need a kick up their ass. With a steel toe boot! Idjots!

You paid $600 for a new clutch????? There is approx 6 plates costing $20 approx each. It takes an hour MAX to replace them no matter what bike!!! That incudes adjustment and making a cuppa. Serious!

There is a cable. a clutch leaver and a thingy in the motor that is normally a pin that pushes the plates. Thats it. Carbies and valves are tricky and take an hour and half. Clutches... a few plates, a cable and a leaver....

Dude, they seriously need a kick up the ass. And you need your $600 back! They have charged you for...replacing bits that were working!

Give them heaps!

[scracha]

Come to my work workshop and you will get good service , come to my garage for work on your bike and you probebly wont even get charged unless it costs me to do it.

Paul.

Sweet. Will bring down the TDM next week

[Spyke]

Would it be the clutch plates/springs? when mine were worn it sounded like the same symptoms.

could it be they didn't actually change and clutch parts?

[bogan]

had a similar thing happen on my CR, clutch wasn't disengaging, so moved the cable way out (thought that doesn't look right) sure enough after bout 10 pulls of it actually disengaging same problem crops up again. Lay it down and take off clutch cover and the bloody main nut is loose! Tighten, push metal tabs to where they are sposed to be (last guy pushed them all onto the same side, numpty).

Basically what I'm saying, is a clutch is well simple, just DIY that shit.

[dipshit]

When i was asked to lie , cheat and generally rip customers off for work either not done , done to a very poor standard or just not neccessary i had no option but to leave and inform the relevant authorities of the antics carried out by the manager.
I was dragged through the courts but i won and i would do it again in a heart beat as anyone knowing me will attest to.

Good on you for taking a stand. Shame the motorcycle industry is losing people like yourself.

[roadracingoldfart]

Sweet. Will bring down the TDM next week

Roadbikes get special dispensations Steevie , you know that. What time you coming ???

[roadracingoldfart]

Good on you for taking a stand. Shame the motorcycle industry is losing people like yourself.

Ahhhh but the idustry gained an opposition lol.
My point was the techs are often blamed for the managments asshole , money grabbing persona.
Even techs have a mortgage and need to keep a job even though they dont agree with protocol , i was lucky i got a job later that night.

[Conquiztador]

Ahhhh but the idustry gained an opposition lol.
My point was the techs are often blamed for the managments asshole , money grabbing persona.
Even techs have a mortgage and need to keep a job even though they dont agree with protocol , i was lucky i got a job later that night.

Bling to you. At 14 I had my 3'rd or 4'th moped. A 50cc Oegland with 3 gears and pedals. It had, by the earlier owner, been worked on and was a little rocket (well, compared to other mopeds anyhow...). But had developed a loss of power at top revs, My knowledge did not, at that time, reach that far, so I took her in to the shop. I knew it was gonna cost me. But I reasoned, that if I gave it to a specialist she would be sorted... Well, they replaced some of the bits that made her "fly", charged me so much that I had to pay it off, and still had the same problem. But now she was much slower... That was the last time I had a shop do the whole job. Have had bits sorted by others who know their shit (crank reassembly and balancing, valve seats fittting, re-bore and similar) but apart from that I do it my self. Not always getting everything right the first time. But always in the end.

And that moped? I went back to the shop and got all the bits they had replaced and fited them again. Re the problem: I did some asking around and found out re 2 smokers and mufflers and de-cokiing. So I did the easy option and replaced the muffler, and the problem went away!

[Max Preload]

Sounds to me like they didn't have the foggiest fucking idea what they were doing. Something with these symptoms and I'd be looking firstly for warped plates (fibres and steels) and notched clutch basket fingers. You can be damn sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the lever perch.

[DEATH_INC.]

Sounds to me like they didn't have the foggiest fucking idea what they were doing. Something with these symptoms and I'd be looking firstly for warped plates (fibres and steels) and notched clutch basket fingers. You can be damn sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the lever perch.
Yeh, warped steels would be my guess...