View Full Version : Is Rossi the greatest rider ever?
Pwalo
20th May 2005, 08:28
Alright I don't know either but he sure must be one of the very, very best.
I've been watching the GPs since the 70s and WSB since it's inception, and I can't think of another rider who has been able to dominate his opposition in all classes so completely.
Obviously Mick Doohan pretty well made the 500GP class his own in the 90s but he always rode what was arguably the best 500 made. He also stuck with the big H throughout his career, and after Wayne Rainey's crash probably didn't have the opposition to consistently challenge him.
In WSB it's again hard to overlook Mr Fogarty but he rode the ONLY bike that had a consistent chance of winning under WSB regulations.
I guess the other rider that I really rate is Eddie Lawson. Not as many titles as Doohan, or Rossi but he was the first rider to win back to back titles on different brands. And anyone who saw him ride that evil NSR500 has got to be impressed.(The pictures of the bracing that was added to the bikes frame is scary).
Anyways folks what's your call?
Sparky Bills
20th May 2005, 08:34
Is Rossi the greatest rider ever?
YES! :D
Plain and simple
Hitcher
20th May 2005, 09:18
One of the best ever, for sure. Who knows how well the Agostinis and Hailwoods would have gone on modern bikes?
TonyB
20th May 2005, 09:46
He's bloody good, no doubt about it.
But at the Le Mans GP, for the first time since he went to Yamaha, I got the impression that he had a little bit MORE power than Gibernau's Honda. He definitely gained a bit on the staights, but Gibernau closed back up in the twisties. I think Gibernau is also exceptional, he just doen't seem to have the killer instinct that Rossi has.
And just to counter my own theories: do you ever get the feeling that Rossi almost never rides as hard as he can? Look at what he did on the last lap at Le Mans. He managed to pull the pin and break the lap record on the last lap. It often seems when he needs to really go for it, he can step up another notch.
wildcat_lgf
20th May 2005, 09:58
He's pretty much tops...I rate Gibernau as well, but as TonyB said Rossi does seem to be able to up the anti when he needs to...damn his skills and natural ability! Of course that may all change when he swaps to F1 :killingme
zadok
20th May 2005, 10:09
I think I must agree that he is the best. I was wondering if the change to Yamaha would make a difference, but he continued on his winning way. Even if he gets a bad start he always manages to get his nose back in front. Amazing rider.
Marty :ride:
Skunk
20th May 2005, 10:28
And just to counter my own theories: do you ever get the feeling that Rossi almost never rides as hard as he can? Look at what he did on the last lap at Le Mans. He managed to pull the pin and break the lap record on the last lap. It often seems when he needs to really go for it, he can step up another notch.
I have heard Rossi say (when he was with Honda) that he rode 80% until he needed to go 90%...
I think this was on the Faster DVD... Interview while driving around the track. The Second DVD shows him trying to get the car onto the track before they start the interview; he didn't seem to know the way. :D
Jazzed
20th May 2005, 10:28
Yep Rossi is pretty great.... but I know Ago, Mike the Bike and John Surtees would have to rate up there.
Surtees especially for winning on 2 and 4 wheels http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/drv-surjoh.html
Paul in NZ
20th May 2005, 10:58
John Surtees whould be my choice but Rossi is right up there with him.
Rossi is just a complete 'natural' that seems to run on confidence and instinct.
Surtees (the original leather clad god of speed) is a study of neatness and consistency. Not to mention a jolly good public speaker and an excellent ambassador for the sport.
Ago should rate highly but he fits into the Foggy class where he was the man on the only competitive bike once the other italians dropped out of racing in '57
Cheers
Too hard to judge against other eras,but Rossi is definatly something special - the way he can almost effortlessly pull out some extra speed,come through the pack after a ''bad'' start (I reckon he almost does that on purpose) I like the way he follows the man in front....watching every move so he knows exactly what they will do...watching that back tyre,pushing them until it's gone and then making his move so they can't come back at him.A real thinking rider,they are always the best....you need more than speed to win.
I still rate Kenny Roberts if not the best then certainly the most influencial rider ever - he changed the riding style (knee down),the corner lines (late apex) and bike set up (more weight on the front wheel) he started race schools,managed teams and is still involve today,the guy is head and shoulders above everyone else.
Going back further they were all the best,the names too long for me to list - but I will pull a couple out - Surtees for acomlishments that will most likely never be beaten,Ago for winning everybloodything possible....and Phill Read for spanning eras as a competitive rider,he was around as a top rider forever.
I agree Rossi is pretty good - Only 2nd to me really. Oh yeah I could beat him..... if I wanted to that is :o
Rossi is great, but to me so was Ago. Forget his years on MV it was the switch to Yamaha that showed the truth - he was great no matter what the bike even winning the Daytona 200 on a TZ700, plus two world championships on Yamahas - one in 350 and one in 500. How could he prove more? Exactly as Rossi has done in his switch from Honda.
2_SL0
20th May 2005, 12:38
I dont think we have even seen what he really can do.
James Deuce
20th May 2005, 12:38
No, he's not.
He's just a good guy swimming in a sea of corporatised mediocrity, a la Michael Schumacher.
Motoracer
20th May 2005, 13:08
Rossi is the greatest MotoGP racer ever.
That Guy
20th May 2005, 13:11
No, he's not.
He's just a good guy swimming in a sea of corporatised mediocrity, a la Michael Schumacher.
Can't agree with that. When did Shoemaker give up his unbeatable combination to prove himself? And anyway as all us biking folks agree - riding a bike is 80% rider and 20% bike; not the other way round like that F1 fiasco; so not a fair comparison I think.
I do agree that there is still some corporatised flannel in MotoGP; but I think Rossi is the best ever anyway. Plus he bought me a beer once in a pub so he's the greatest.
. When did Shoemaker give up his unbeatable combination to prove himself?
This year - he's not in the best car on the grid (ok,so it's the tyres,but they are made for one car) and he's nowhere...he's one of the best drivers we've ever seen - but not 7 World Championships worth.
badlieutenant
20th May 2005, 13:54
rossi would be in my top 3. Its a hard call tho. There will be people who will swear that agostini was the best.
Poor old giber, I kinda want to see him win cause he can beat rossi, but old valentino has a vulcan mindfuck hold on him. Rossi will get him all upset and then not give a another thought about it
James Deuce
20th May 2005, 14:23
Can't agree with that. When did Shoemaker give up his unbeatable combination to prove himself? And anyway as all us biking folks agree - riding a bike is 80% rider and 20% bike; not the other way round like that F1 fiasco; so not a fair comparison I think.
I do agree that there is still some corporatised flannel in MotoGP; but I think Rossi is the best ever anyway. Plus he bought me a beer once in a pub so he's the greatest.
Benetton '94/'95 was NOT the best car on the grid. The Ferrari in '96, '97, '98, and '99 was NOT the best car on the grid, and arguably put up a challenge beyond its capabilities with Schumacher at the wheel.
It is a fair comparision. If there was the equivalent of a Lawson, Rainey, Schwantz, and Doohan combination on the starting grid it would be a very different story. There is no where near the depth of consistent talent that we had in 500GP in the late '80s and early '90s at the moment. But there is no such combo, so we can't even begin to make a stab non-historical comparisons.
That Guy
20th May 2005, 14:58
Benetton '94/'95 was NOT the best car on the grid. The Ferrari in '96, '97, '98, and '99 was NOT the best car on the grid, and arguably put up a challenge beyond its capabilities with Schumacher at the wheel.
It is a fair comparision. If there was the equivalent of a Lawson, Rainey, Schwantz, and Doohan combination on the starting grid it would be a very different story. There is no where near the depth of consistent talent that we had in 500GP in the late '80s and early '90s at the moment. But there is no such combo, so we can't even begin to make a stab non-historical comparisons.
but shoemaker never bought me a beer so he's out. An doohan once pushed me out of the way at a press conference so he's out 'cause he's a very rude man. Shwantz is a dude but I reckon Rossi would get hinm to crash before winnnig the title against him. Lawson & Rainey......I can't think of a plausible argumnet for them so I'll just take a pig headed approach. So there.
James Deuce
20th May 2005, 15:04
but shoemaker never bought me a beer so he's out. So there.
And that is a very good point.
Fryin Finn
20th May 2005, 15:47
Rossi the greatest. I'll reserve judgement till I see him on a dirt bike. However he is to be commended for owning an XJR1300.
I'll cast a vote for Stephan Everts :D
Besides - since you are all just a figment of my imagination then only I can be the greatest rider of all time
James Deuce
20th May 2005, 15:57
Rossi the greatest. I'll reserve judgement till I see him on a dirt bike. However he is to be commended for owning an XJR1300.
I'll cast a vote for Stephan Everts :D
Besides - since you are all just a figment of my imagination then only I can be the greatest rider of all time
Solipsist.
White trash
20th May 2005, 16:20
Thought you wallys knew that?
James Deuce
20th May 2005, 16:22
Thought you wallys knew that?
Bwaaaaaar...woohohohhhooooo....bang....skkkkkkrt.. ..skkkkkrtt....shhhhhh. tinkle.
Paul in NZ
20th May 2005, 16:23
Thought you wallys knew that?
Oh yes... Don't fret, all us wallies recognise our ultimate wally always...
White trash
20th May 2005, 16:39
Bwaaaaaar...woohohohhhooooo....bang....skkkkkkrt.. ..skkkkkrtt....shhhhhh. tinkle.
Reliving something there, big guy? :D
James Deuce
20th May 2005, 16:43
Reliving something there, big guy? :D
The only thing the head wally taught me that stuck in my mind.
Ixion
20th May 2005, 16:45
My reverend and illustrious namesake thought most highly of Mr Stanley Woods.
(I believe that the bike in my avatar picture is the reverend gentleman with a race replica Norton of the period)
Jarno Saarinen was by many accounts totally gifted. Unfortunately he was killed in a totally preventable accident so we will never know.
pritch
20th May 2005, 18:11
I got the impression that he had a little bit MORE power than Gibernau's Honda. He definitely gained a bit on the staights, but Gibernau closed back up in the twisties.
If you look at those radar gun figures from practice you will see that Rossi was down about 10kph on the Ducatis, and is also slower than the Hondas on the straight. Apparently though his bike is set up so that he can carry more speed through the corners. Jeremy Burgess said words to the effect, "There is only one straight but there might be thirteen corners".
Jean Michael Bayle, from World MX champ to qualifying a 250GP bike first time out, to putting a 500GP bike on the front row. Best all rounder ever? Best ever road racer? Rossi or Lawson, think Rossi might pip Lawson by the time he's done......
Rossi certainly picked the team he went to, would've been impressed if he'd gone back to help Aprilia, after his early days, now that would've been cool. The Yamaha was a pretty calculated move, they knew it wasnt too far off the pace.
pritch
20th May 2005, 23:39
The Yamaha was a pretty calculated move, they knew it wasnt too far off the pace.
If that's the case, how would you explain the fact that the other Yamaha riders were still finishing in their customary places down the field, 11th and 12th or whatever?
If you look at those radar gun figures from practice you will see that Rossi was down about 10kph on the Ducatis, and is also slower than the Hondas on the straight. Apparently though his bike is set up so that he can carry more speed through the corners. Jeremy Burgess said words to the effect, "There is only one straight but there might be thirteen corners".
You can have the fastest top speed and still be slower down the straight. Top speeds may be interesting but it really comes down to how fast you get to a high speed.
In drag racing its not the fastest dragster that wins its the lowest elapsed time. The Yamaha may be quicker down the straights as opposed to faster.
If that's the case, how would you explain the fact that the other Yamaha riders were still finishing in their customary places down the field, 11th and 12th or whatever?
Huh? You care to show all these 11th and 12th place finishes recoprded by the top Yamaha men in 2003? Barros was on the podium in France, Checa had at least 3 4th place finishes, it was the crashes that hurt the riders most, you forgot how Barros in particular was on fire in pre season testing on the Yamaha that year, but crashed and hurt his shoulder pretty bad in one of the final test seasons or could have been in practice at Suzuka at the first race.
Sensei
21st May 2005, 09:42
You Must watch alot of Sky or have a very Big Mag collection to find all this out GAV but its xcellent for us to read & know :Punk:
Would have to agree that Rossi is good
pritch
21st May 2005, 13:46
Huh? You care to show all these 11th and 12th place finishes recoprded by the top Yamaha men in 2003?
Rossi wasn't riding Yamaha in 2003. The other Yamaha riders were way down the field last year usually 10th 11th or 12th. That's from memory but it stood out like the dogs proverbials at the time.
It turns out now Rossi's bike was very different to the others but all credit to him and Burgess for that, their bike was set up how they wanted it.
Huh? lost you somewhere, my point was that Rossi's move from Honda to Yamaha was pretty calculated as Rossi and Burgess both knew the Yamaha wasnt too far off the pace, it certainly wasnt like the Aprilia, Suzuki or Kawasaki. It may have been seen as a risk, but a pretty calculated risk. Rossi could only see what the Yamaha was like in 2003 obviously before he moved there, you with me so far Pritch008? There was alot of speculation whether Rossi got to ride the Yamaha in a private session in Japan before his first test in Sepang, remember Honda wouldnt let him test before the end of the yearie end of Dec 2003. At the Sepang test, Rossi got on the bike and just rode the wheels off it first time out, no pussyfooting sround, no slowly getting up to speed, just on the gas, ring its neck, and see what it could do. What he did was break the existing lap record and showed right from the word go, he was on the pace. Stuff of legends, really and just destroyed Checa right from the start. The other couple of riders were Yamaha tester Norick Abe and MotoGP rookie Marco Melandri neither who realistically were given much chance of regular top 10 finishes. Checa just maintained his regular crash record and was never a threat. More the riders they had, than the Yamaha being that far off the pace. Rossi on the Yamaha reminds me of Schwantz on the Suzuki, both riders making up for any shortcomings the bike may have and being competitive whereever they race.
And yeah Sensei I have a room stacked with m/c mags, videos etc since about 1981/82 :whistle:
Eyetie
28th May 2005, 07:48
Rossi is definitely good and after watching Faster it gives you a great insight to his persona, I have to give credit to McCoy hobbling on a crutch with pins through his leg and ankle and getting on his bike to race, that takes some kahuna's!
That Guy
30th May 2005, 11:26
Jean Michael Bayle, from World MX champ to qualifying a 250GP bike first time out, to putting a 500GP bike on the front row. Best all rounder ever? Best ever road racer? Rossi or Lawson, think Rossi might pip Lawson by the time he's done......
Rossi certainly picked the team he went to, would've been impressed if he'd gone back to help Aprilia, after his early days, now that would've been cool. The Yamaha was a pretty calculated move, they knew it wasnt too far off the pace.
JMB would get my vote for 2nd best ever....
Skyryder
23rd November 2005, 18:06
I'm not realy up with much of this but my boss whose been around bikes since he was in diapers speaks of Rossi as a freak. I was watching one of his races when he cut on the inside of the leading rider, suicidal stuff. Rossi is fearless.
Skyryder
gav
23rd November 2005, 18:18
He's not too shabby in a car either! See this? He just cleaned up Colin MacRae in a rally car!! http://www.crash.net/uk/en/news_view.asp?cid=6&nid=122438
Ivan
23rd November 2005, 18:55
Vale is an extrordinary rider but I really rate McCoy as one of the best he had just had shit runs he was really the guy who invented the power slide it shows him on faster man what a legend but I also agree to date in the GP field Rossi is the best Gibernau has the opportunity but basically has fallen for the "CURSE" I dont believe this is true but who knows maybe Rossi is an all round gifted freak
cowpoos
23rd November 2005, 20:39
I don't know if rossi is the greatest ever....but right now he is the best...
I believe its to hard to compare riders accross generations...there were greats in every era...and for the knowledge and technoligy avalible to them at the time...they made use of it to the best of there ability and then added talent...
But rossi is a talent....he consistantly is able to do everything required of a top rider and do it well in every area...hes able to ride behind anyone and not let the rider slow his momentum when he's riding behind...he seems to invent new lines on the go and make them stick for his porpose at the time...he dosn't seem to try as hard as his fellow compediters [well appears not to]...and doesn't allow him self to be pressured...wether its born out of arogance or whatever...it works...he works very hard to make his bike as easy to ride as possible...and is never happy with it...so is always looking for improvements....an absaloute professional
Gib is a talent aswell...but I think he loses it in the mind...and then loses it on the podium
BarryG
1st December 2005, 06:29
Of his era, probably. No, definitely. But hard to compare eras, really. Every stage of GP racing has had it's advances in technology and style, with the best riders coming to the fore in being able to take advantage.
The best I ever saw was Mike Hailwood, and he had some pretty stiff competition in the likes of Redman, Ivy, Read, Ago and the like. I sound like an old fart, but perhaps the depth of talent was greater in the 60's and early 70's (?). Although if you think about it (what, me think?!) not a hell of a lot separates the field in a MotoGP race these days, everyone is bloody fast. Rossi's domination ('cos that's what it is) is the more impressive when you look at the diversity of results of the riders behind him, there's no real '2nd best', although Gibernau last year could be termed that, but certainly not this year. Melandri, maybe?
Next year will be interesting, but I rather doubt Rossi will be dethroned until he gives up 2 wheels. And that will be a sad day for GP.
Cheers
Barry
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