Paying child support

[Duke girl]

I had a question that needed answering regarding Child Support (Paying Parent) so I rang up Inland Revenue to ask if a parent who is paying child support still has to pay it after that child leaves the country with the parent to whom it is living with.
I got told that as long as that parent is a NZ Citizen then yes I still have to pay Child Support regardless of where in the world they are living.
I would like to know what your point of view is on this matter and is there anyone else in this same situation?.

[onearmedbandit]

Eh? You only have to pay child support through the IRD if the child's parent is on the DPB. If they are working for example, you can have your own arrangement. At least that is how I understand it.

[Mom]

Eh? You only have to pay child support through the IRD if the child's parent is on the DPB. If they are working for example, you can have your own arrangement. At least that is how I understand it.

Emphasis on you can have your own arangement. Sadly not all couples manage that and one parent refuses to pay anything. Then you end up at IRD getting them to collect for you. Much easier if you just agree to pay something towards the care of you children I would have thought. Some like to use the with holding of money as a bit of a punishment to the other parent you see, forgetting there are children invloved.

[JimO]

Some like to use the with holding of money as a bit of a punishment to the other parent you see, forgetting there are children invloved.

some withold the access to the children as a bit of a punishment as well, then the other party thinks no kids no money

[MSTRS]

If the custodial parent has left the country, then one can assume that they are not on a benefit. So nothing to pay there.
If IRD were collecting and passing on, one would assume that they are either still able to pass on (pay as usual) or not able to pass on (why should you pay, then...it's not going where it's supposed to)

[Duke girl]

My issue is why should I have to pay child support when I will never get to see when I want to nor spend time with the child who I am paying child support for because of the miles between us. Not fair.

[Bald Eagle]

My issue is why should I have to pay child support when I will never get to see when I want to nor spend time with the child who I am paying child support for because of the miles between us. Not fair.

child
support was never meant to be fair it's the systems punishment for failing the social model of being a family.

[phill-k]

To answer your first question, admittedly based on information back when the IRD took over responsibility for collecting Child support payments. The IRD or more specifically the act that enables the IRD to operate does not make provision for IRD to legally remit funds overseas - i.e. their is no legislation governing them remitting funds overseas. Thus they can not remit your payments, ask the question.
It is my understanding of the the custody laws that both parents must agree to a child that is a party to an order, being removed from the country, wasn't the case when I went down this road but has since been changed - did you agree to the child's removal?, and if so you should have (read did) arranged to make child support payments directly with the other party,if necessary create a document agreeing to this and sign it for both parties = they won't bother pursuing it.

[Mudfart]

thats right, you could have gotten and signed a "right of non-removal order", before your kid was taken away.
This document states the child must stay within a certain area for you to have access to visiting.
Now that the kid is out of country, it wouldnt apply.
Of course, child support services would not give this information easily, as govt departments dont like for joe public to know their rights.
It makes knowledge too powerful............and costly.............YOU? you mean nothing to them, they as a collective, have no "feelings" or empathy towards you.

[rickstv]

My ex tried to take my 6yr old daughter to the UK permanently without me knowing. Turns out that is classed as abduction.

you may be able to stop your ex from taking your child out of the country by simply not agreeing to it.

my ex and I had a child support agreement in place, so IRD were not involved.

I hope it all works out fine for you.

Rick.

[p.dath]

I had a question that needed answering regarding Child Support (Paying Parent) so I rang up Inland Revenue to ask if a parent who is paying child support still has to pay it after that child leaves the country with the parent to whom it is living with.
I got told that as long as that parent is a NZ Citizen then yes I still have to pay Child Support regardless of where in the world they are living.
I would like to know what your point of view is on this matter and is there anyone else in this same situation?.

The custodial parent is going to incurr a cost to provide the care no matter where they live, so I guess it is fair.

[mashman]

If you legally can get out of it... and if you can afford it... tell "them" that you will make the payments, but to a trust account in your childs name. That should please the red tape brigade?... If you don't ask!

[Wannabiker]

As I understood it, you are liable until the child reaches 19, OR becomes a wage earner, or recieves living allowance. You could argue a non removal order...but more likely to succeed if the child is younger. Over 14 years old and they pretty much have the final say. I fought for (and got) a non removal order for my son at age of 12, but he did want to remain close to me. If he had of wanted to go, I would have had a bigger challenge.

[davebullet]

My issue is why should I have to pay child support when I will never get to see when I want to nor spend time with the child who I am paying child support for because of the miles between us. Not fair.

Or... you have an obligation to contribute to the finanical upkeep of your child, regardless of their residence. You don't pay child support only if you can play with them. (It's not like a DVD rental).

[Howie]

To answer your first question, admittedly based on information back when the IRD took over responsibility for collecting Child support payments. The IRD or more specifically the act that enables the IRD to operate does not make provision for IRD to legally remit funds overseas - i.e. their is no legislation governing them remitting funds overseas. Thus they can not remit your payments, ask the question.


This depends on the country involved, there is a reciprocal agreement between Australia, and NZ. a bit of info on it Here ( http://www.ird.govt.nz/childsupport/custodians/overseas/ )


My issue is why should I have to pay child support when I will never get to see when I want to nor spend time with the child who I am paying child support for because of the miles between us. Not fair.

Well the money you are paying is to help support the child. However in my view the whole Child support system needs an overhaul in my view, and I am saying that as a single parent who has his children living with him, they seem to be massive varience's in the amount of money the paying parent has to pay from those who limit there income to pay the mimimum of about $15 dollars a week through to those who end up paying several hundred a week if they are on a good income. The best answer is to have a Private agreement if both parents can agree to, and honour it.

[karla]

The Hague convention prevents a child from being taken (abducted) from his/her country of birth unless both parents are agreeable, so that your child's right to have access to both parents is protected.

You'll probably get a lot of support from a local mens group if you want to prevent the other parent from taking your child out of the country - this happens to fathers all the time, not often to mothers, but it is happening on a more regular basis. Welcome to equality. I agree with you, it is unfair to be paying for a child that you don't see and can't parent, because of the selfishness of the other parent. Every child needs to have two parents who love him/her, and no one else can ever be their mother or father, no matter how good a step-parent they are.

In saying that, I have raised my son alone, with no child support from his father, who made a choice not to be involved. I have supported his decision not to be a father (although I definately don't understand it), as it was my unilateral decision to continue the pregnancy against his will, rather than have an abortion. There are some parents who might see things the way you and I do, but they are far and few between - people seem to think that money will make up for or replace a parent. I think that money is a poor substitute for love.

hope things work out for the best for all of you ~

[Duke girl]

As of September last year my daughter decided that she wanted to go and live with her father so I wasn't going to stand in her way and stop her for the simple reason being I wasn't going to have her throw this back in my face later on and live with a child that didn't want to be living with me. So I let her go. The X took me to court back in 2005 saying that he couldn't have shared custody of both my daughters as he was in ill health (Crap) and it was stopping him from getting a job (More crap) cos he hates working for a living. So l got full custody of them both so realistically I still have full custudy of my daughter as far as the courts are concerned. Since he and l have been divorced he has been overseas holidaying about 5 times to my once so Who has the money out of the 2 parents?????? you got it he does.

[sinfull]

Have to ask skip where is he living, here in NZ or in OZ ?
If he's living in OZ, of course his lifestyle would be heaps better than yours and can afford to holiday a few times a year ! but i don't see how you could be forced to pay the maint.
If he's living here collecting the dpb and spending a lot of time holidaying in OZ well he's got some other income lol

[crazyhorse]

It all depends on whether the parent with the child wants IRD to collect it or not. You are liable to pay child support no matter what, but a private arrangement is best if possible. However, the other parent does not HAVE to be on a benefit to collect it. It just makes what you may have to pay the right amount and takes away any nastiness or disagreements that may arise if a private arrangement can not be agreed upon. My ex husband and I have always had a private arrangement and I have many friends who have shared custody and pay half of all expenses.

Be aware too that child support is payable until the day a child turns 19. Unless the child has a job in which they are working more than 30 hours per week. New Zealand and Australia have a reciprocal arrangement that was put into place approximately 12 years ago now.

[Duke girl]

Sinfull....... he is at the moment living in NZ but thinking of going over to Chicago where he is as present doing all of his homework. Daughter turns 15 in June and all I am hearing from her is I cant wait to start my new life over there. I have been told by a couple of people that things arn't that good over with jobs been lost and businesses closing down not sure how true this is. He said to me that he will allow her to fly back here once a year I will believe that when it happens. I know that there is a time in a parents life where your children get to age where they can make up their own minds and do what it is in their lives they want to do but moving over the other side of the world is a huge decision for a child of her age to make without being persuaded by her Father. I feel like my hands are tied and what I think isn't important.

[sinfull]

what I think isn't important. Ahhhh but then you see , it is ! Thats why he's brain washing you with the fly over every year ! You have custody and have to sign a release for him to take her out of the country !

Big desicion time for you i'm afraid, sounds like the maint thing is just sour grapes, but i recon your more worried about losing her !
Guess what you have to decide is whether you trust him to be able to controll a teenage girl in a big bad new world !
Of course she would be excited about going and would prob hate you forever if you stopped her but sometimes we do this !
Perhaps talk to him about her staying here till he sorts work out, a place to live, schools etc !
If he's a good man who can provide, then it could perhaps be a good experience for her to see the world !

Not a good place for ya to be in i will conceed !

[tommygun]

Sinfull....... he is at the moment living in NZ but thinking of going over to Chicago where he is as present doing all of his homework. Daughter turns 15 in June and all I am hearing from her is I cant wait to start my new life over there. I have been told by a couple of people that things arn't that good over with jobs been lost and businesses closing down not sure how true this is. He said to me that he will allow her to fly back here once a year I will believe that when it happens. I know that there is a time in a parents life where your children get to age where they can make up their own minds and do what it is in their lives they want to do but moving over the other side of the world is a huge decision for a child of her age to make without being persuaded by her Father. I feel like my hands are tied and what I think isn't important.

Hi DG

If the IRD are going to come after you for CS when your child starts living with your ex there is only one solution. Get an private ageement in place with your ex and remove IRD from the picture. Unless they have a "signed by both parties" agreement or request to stop collecting CS then IRD will do what ever to recover the money. As for the teenage issue of "everything is greener on the other side" not much you can do their apart from be supportive and let her know that if it all goes to shit you will be there.
Good Luck.

[MSTRS]

... through to those who end up paying several hundred a week if they are on a good income. ....

Try $3000 per month. One guy I know is paying this. The mother works, so she gets the lot. She also doesn't spend it on the kids, and tells them "they can't have, because Daddy doesn't pay enough".
The inequities of Child Support are huge.

[Paul in NZ]

This sounds a pretty terrible situation and I'm the first to be very thankful its not me asking the question...

However - if I look back at when our eldest was that age (say 14 to 17) then I have to say I wish now I was a LOT tougher than I was and now I think she might agree with me. Its a bloody tough time to be a parent for sure.... Girls at that age think they know it all but make some terrible choices, all you can do is put up with the venom and keep em safe untill they calm down! (as it was I got into fights, spat on, sworn at and even had to beat the crap out of stupid punks to keep that hellion semi safe - I really thought the stress of it was going to break me and our marriage at one point)

The one bit of useful advice I did get was to trust my better instincts and not listen the the twisted logic that these kids come up with. Parents usually try and do the best they can - don't be put off now, you are on the home straight!

I know this is not quite your situation BUT - to me it sounds like you are uneasy about it? One solution is to place some conditions such as your partner MUST be in proper employment, living arrangements must satisfy you and she must attend school etc. Failure on any one of these and what ever else you want she is back here pronto!

Also - Chicago... fark - while I didn't spend a lot of time there it sure wouldnt be my first choice. The winters are brutal and in some areas the crime etc is pretty grim. Like all of the USA, its a geat place IF you have money but its hell on earth if you don't.

One last thing - school... Sorry, she is going to be the outsider at school there, that can be bloody rough!

[86GSXR]

Hiya Sue, notwithstanding the exellent advice already given, I think you should consult a good family lawyer if you haven't already? It may cost a few $100.00 but it sounds as if you have a pretty good argument seeing as though you have legal custody. Whatever you might spend now could be worth it in terms of what it may cost you emotionally and financially in the future, and at the very least you'd have a definitve answer.

[MSTRS]

Hiya Sue, notwithstanding the exellent advice already given, I think you should consult a good family lawyer if you haven't already? It may cost a few $100.00 but it sounds as if you have a pretty good argument seeing as though you have legal custody. Whatever you might spend now could be worth it in terms of what it may cost you emotionally and financially in the future, and at the very least you'd have a definitve answer.
Proactive. I like.

[kit]

Hmmm I'd hate to be put in this situation...it was a very unselfish thing you did letting her go to live with her father. Best thing is to come to an agreement outside of IRD if possible. But I'd follow my gut about letting her go overseas.....Gut instincts are normally right! Someone once told me "If your kids don't hate you at least once in your life your not doing your job as a parent properly" My daughter tells me she hates me about as much as she tells me she loves me lol!

[Duke girl]

Thank you to everyone who has so far replied to my post and has given some very good advice. Its so much appreciated and Yes this is to me a very difficult time and all I want to do is cry everytime I think about it. I personally feel that I have failed as a parent cos of her wanting to go and live with her Father and now wanting to go overseas with him. Parenting is the hardest thing any of us will do in our lives and trying to make the right decision when it comes to our sibblings isn't always easy nor correct but one must learn from their mistakes. Also using that word NO is to me hard to do at times because of the reaction one gets from those you have said it to.
I am going to get some legal advice regarding this matter so I know exactly where I stand and what my rights are.
Wish me luck.
Once again Thanks everyone for your support and here's hoping that it all turns out for the best in the end.

[Quasi]

Hi Skip - the position you are in is one that none of us as parents would want to even contemplate. There has been some great words given here and it does look as though some sound legal advise is the next step. You could start with a lawyer at a citizens advise bureau - which wont cost you anything.

Whatever happens - dont ever think you have failed as a parent - its the hardest job in the world - we all do the very best we can, relaying on gut instinct and intuition a lot of the time, getting it wrong a lot of the time. Its incredibly hard, but i think we all agree that the greatest gifts we have had in our lives are our our kids. Your daughter may think she is going off to have a wonderful new life with her father, but, you will always be her mum, she will come back to you, you have not let her down.

Big hug and lots of positive thoughts coming your way

[Ratti]

Hun, you havent failed as a parent.

You have done a fine job. She is confidant about making a big move, That would not have happend without your input over the years she has been growing up.

Once the legal thing is done and you know what is what, run with your gut instinct. You will be right.

As a thought, is it possible for him to leave money here for you to access immediatly should you let her go then have to haul her butt home again in a hurry?

[firefighter]

My issue is why should I have to pay child support when I will never get to see when I want to nor spend time with the child who I am paying child support for because of the miles between us. Not fair.


I did'nt think they could take the child out of the country without your permission? (a mate has just been through this)

Tell them you'll pay child support as long as you still get your weekend visits. (It'll get expensive to fly him home every weekend!)

Personally I think it's ludicrous to have to pay child support if they move overseas.......

[Paul in NZ]

Yes this is to me a very difficult time and all I want to do is cry everytime I think about it. I personally feel that I have failed as a parent cos of her wanting to go and live with her Father and now wanting to go overseas with him.

Stop being an arse....

You have NOT failed - you got her this far alive, thats the basic pass mark. Take confidence that you know whats right and wrong and never be afaid of NO! The little buggers can smell weakness and have a way of making you feel a failure and thus its all your fault (unless it goes well og course in which case its their own brillience)

Reach into the inner bitch - take strength!

Rule 1. YOU must survive this, nor self sacrifice here...

Rule 2. If you think NO say NO

[Jonno.]

Make her stay.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Did you try to stop them from leaving the country. Because as i understand they have to have your permission to take child/children out of the country or you can stop them going.

[karla]

You know, he could possibly be grateful to not have to look after her over there, and she might feel relieved that she doesn't have to change school/make new friends/leave the security of a country that she knows etc. Your setting down the rules might give her the opportunity to later say thank you; it could be that she is putting on a brave face for her dad and not being honest about her fears. Teenagers need boundaries - tough love.

Perhaps you could agree to her going for a visit, to test out the waters first, before she makes any rash decisions. And/or make it clear that she is welcome back with you, should she find herself homesick and lonely. Leave the doors open. I don't think that this is about the money, or even about being scared to upset anyone, it is all about the love you have for your daughter. Tell her you love her, often.

[Duke girl]

That is 1 thing I tell both my girls that I love them and I have always praised them up when the have done well. Yet my X thinks that being a good parent is buying them what they want which he use to do when we were together. Telling your children that you love them and always being there for them through not only the good times but the bad times as well to me is being a good parent and yet children today think otherwise. I have never stopped them from being with their father when they have wanted to and never will even though what i think of him I keep to myself, but I just find it hard to understand todays generation and the way they think compared to the way we did at their age. I know times have changed and I guess its all about trying to keep up with that who knows. I am seeking legal advice so I can put my mind at ease and get the answers I am looking for regarding this before it actually happens.

[phred]

Eh? You only have to pay child support through the IRD if the child's parent is on the DPB. If they are working for example, you can have your own arrangement. At least that is how I understand it.

Wrong! You pay child support as soon as the custodial parent files a claim at IRD child support and it immediately overrides any private agreement. Also just to make it more ludicrous you are unable to get back the money paid via your private arrangement that was paid concurrently with the payment to IRD so you gety to pat twice!

[phred]

If the custodial parent has left the country, then one can assume that they are not on a benefit. So nothing to pay there.
If IRD were collecting and passing on, one would assume that they are either still able to pass on (pay as usual) or not able to pass on (why should you pay, then...it's not going where it's supposed to)

Clearly you have not been through our wonderful child support system. It does run on logic!! IRD collects until the child is 19 or fully employed ie more than 30 hrs per week regardless of private arrangements, country of residence or access to children.

[MSTRS]

Clearly you have not been through our wonderful child support system. It does run on logic!! IRD collects until the child is 19 or fully employed ie more than 30 hrs per week regardless of private arrangements, country of residence or access to children.

Oh, yes I have. But didn't have the added hassle of international shit.
As for a child living overseas...IRD would have to have a way to get the money to the custodial parent. How can they justify collecting money without being able to pay it on?

[phred]

The Hague convention prevents a child from being taken (abducted) from his/her country of birth unless both parents are agreeable, so that your child's right to have access to both parents is protected.

~
No it doesn't. Children get taken out of the country against their other parents wishes all the time. The Hague convention provides a framework to try and recover the children. Not always successfully.

[phred]

Did you try to stop them from leaving the country. Because as i understand they have to have your permission to take child/children out of the country or you can stop them going.

Only if you get a CAPS listing in place in which case customs clearance traps them

[phred]

Oh, yes I have. But didn't have the added hassle of international shit.
As for a child living overseas...IRD would have to have a way to get the money to the custodial parent. How can they justify collecting money without being able to pay it on?

Sorry for the assumption and my sympathies for being there. The act allows collection regardless of being able to pass it on. They are quite happy to keep it until the custodial parent claims it.

[phred]

That is 1 thing I tell both my girls that I love them and I have always praised them up when the have done well. Yet my X thinks that being a good parent is buying them what they want which he use to do when we were together. Telling your children that you love them and always being there for them through not only the good times but the bad times as well to me is being a good parent and yet children today think otherwise. I have never stopped them from being with their father when they have wanted to and never will even though what i think of him I keep to myself, but I just find it hard to understand todays generation and the way they think compared to the way we did at their age. I know times have changed and I guess its all about trying to keep up with that who knows. I am seeking legal advice so I can put my mind at ease and get the answers I am looking for regarding this before it actually happens.
I feel your pain. Keep smiling and know that all things come to an end and when life gets really difficult go ride your bike. Just don't do it after an argument with the ex the risks are too high!

[MSTRS]

Sorry for the assumption and my sympathies for being there. The act allows collection regardless of being able to pass it on. They are quite happy to keep it until the custodial parent claims it.

It was 25 years ago...
But doesn't that just suck!! Thing is, IRD would have to have been collecting it before the parent/child went overseas. They would have a bank account where they transferred the collected monies. If that bank account closed (say), wouldn't that be a flag to them to 'review' the situation?

[karla]

No it doesn't. Children get taken out of the country against their other parents wishes all the time. The Hague convention provides a framework to try and recover the children. Not always successfully.

I stand corrected. It also only gives a degree of protection between those countries that have joined in the Hague Convention, afaik.

[Duke girl]

What I would like to know is how do I find out if my daughter leaves school or gets a job before she turns 19 where then I would no longer being paying child support. How would IRD ever find this out if they are not contacted and made aware of it by the parent claiming child support.

[Jonno.]

They wouldn't.

[jane doe]

They wouldn't.

we have the same issue with my husband's daughter living in another country. He has never met her and doesn't even know if she's still alive. We will pay until she is 19 regardless of whether she is working, on a benefit, married or deceased. I know for a fact that the country in which she lives only offers 4 years of secondary school but who am I to interfere. IRD won't accept changes to custodial parents living circumstances unless they come from the custodial parent. They are forever in favour of the custodial parent. This witch has already told my husband several years ago ( last point of contact) that she will make him pay for not being involved with his daughter ( a bit hard when she was born in and lives in another country . Yes, I know what you are all thinking, how can she can collect child support? a WHOLE other story......). There is no way in hell she will tell IRD her daughter is no longer eligible for child support. No way in hell!!!

[rickstv]

Is the law about to change regarding child support payments? I heard that the custodial parent's income will be taken into account when calculating child support, and that IRD will collect the payment from the non custodial parent in all cases.
Rick.

[Howie]

Is the law about to change regarding child support payments? I heard that the custodial parent's income will be taken into account when calculating child support, and that IRD will collect the payment from the non custodial parent in all cases.
Rick.

There is a Child support amendment Bill before parliment at the moment. It can be down loaded Here (http://legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2011/0337/latest/whole.html), or as a PDF file Here (http://legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2011/0337/latest/096be8ed807a800e.pdf) (1.2MB). A article in the Herald about it is Here (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10804151)

You can make a submission about this Bill untill June 20th 2012 as mentioned Here (http://taxpolicy.ird.govt.nz/bills/337-1)

[rickstv]

There is a Child support amendment Bill before parliment at the moment. It can be down loaded Here (http://legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2011/0337/latest/whole.html), or as a PDF file Here (http://legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2011/0337/latest/096be8ed807a800e.pdf) (1.2MB). A article in the Herald about it is Here (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10804151)

You can make a submission about this Bill untill June 20th 2012 as mentioned Here (http://taxpolicy.ird.govt.nz/bills/337-1)

Thanks Howie, I am in the position of earning much less than my ex. the money I pay hurts a lot , whereas the ex could still live well without without it, and she is in the family home too.:mad:

[Akzle]

fucken protest it. if you like court, then apply to court to have it reduced.
if the ex pisses and moans, go for a 50% custody or "care order" or whatever they're pumping out now, then payment = 0.
if you can agree with the ex to have a 50% on paper and only have the kids when it suits you (or 50% if that DOES suit you) then no pay...

been there done that.
my name is not on my kids berth certificates, which helps. but there is a parenting order from court.. i pay nothing to the ex. sic.

[ellipsis]

...not sure about the 1/2 custody getting things equal...I was granted 1/2 custody of my son...still had to pay, even though she was working and I was struggling to pay for my partners, now wifes kids and our own childs upbringing ....unfair=yeah, but it didn't go away until he was of age...dangers of life and living in the society we have...

...try fighting the machine...it's a tough uphill, going nowhere battle...I felt less fucked with than some I knew who were being screwed right royally by vindictive ex's and the govt depts...

...I met blokes parting out with up to 70% of their meagre wages to appease the law and only have 2 hours visiting rights a fortnight...

[Winston001]

we have the same issue with my husband's daughter living in another country. He has never met her and doesn't even know if she's still alive. We will pay until she is 19 regardless of whether she is working, on a benefit, married or deceased.

This witch has already told my husband several years ago ( last point of contact) that she will make him pay for not being involved with his daughter ( a bit hard when she was born in and lives in another country)...

I'm not being unkind but your husband has a child who must have been concieved - which takes two people. He's a parent and responsible for his daughter regardless of where she is living.

Isn't he interested in her? Curious? Has he never tried to visit her, phone calls, send letters, cards, birthday presents? This is his own child and she deserves to know who her dad is.

[The Lone Rider]

My issue is why should I have to pay child support when I will never get to see when I want to nor spend time with the child who I am paying child support for because of the miles between us. Not fair.

Family court, not IRD.


And DPB has nothing to do with whether the paying parent has to pay or not.


As for the others.. you need shared care. That means averaging around 3 overnight stays a week. While IRD say they can take in special circumstances, IRD will do a lot of nothing and mainly hold to "YOU MUST HAVE CHILD 3 NIGHTS A WEEK" for it to be considered shared care. Once you have shared care and can prove it, you can claim child support from the other parent. A court order issued by the Ministry of Justice is not considered proof, only supporting evidence. And you will still have to pay your child support even if it's found to be a shared care arrangement.

Also bare in mind IRD does not consider clothing, food, entertainment, and a few other things, to be an expense to claim an exception that you are paying more than your share + child support. That is in their Shared Care pamphlet.

Most of this will actually be covered in the Oct 2012 issue, out later this year (July will have something on criminal & police records).

[nadroj]

Does anyone know if any changes are to be made regarding proof of fatherhood, as currently the mother can stonewall DNA testing of the child if she has something to hide?

[Winston001]

Does anyone know if any changes are to be made regarding proof of fatherhood, as currently the mother can stonewall DNA testing of the child if she has something to hide?

No change that I'm aware of. The police only recently gained the power to take DNA without consent and only for imprison-able offences.

The Family Court cannot compel a mother and certainly not a little baby to give a DNA sample. However, the Judge is empowered to draw a critical conclusion when a mother refuses.

[The Lone Rider]

Does anyone know if any changes are to be made regarding proof of fatherhood, as currently the mother can stonewall DNA testing of the child if she has something to hide?

Uh... you can get an evidential DNA test that can be used in court by simply having a couple of strands of hair of the child. Or spit. Or chewing gum.

So unless you never see your child, and can't get the child long enough to have the samples taken by a GP who agrees to sign off on the documents, then you wouldn't be able to get an evidential DNA test.

You can do a non-evidential DNA test for piece of mind. And all you need is a couple of hairs you can collect yourself.

[nadroj]

Uh... you can get an evidential DNA test that can be used in court by simply having a couple of strands of hair of the child. Or spit. Or chewing gum.

So unless you never see your child, and can't get the child long enough to have the samples taken by a GP who agrees to sign off on the documents, then you wouldn't be able to get an evidential DNA test.

You can do a non-evidential DNA test for piece of mind. And all you need is a couple of hairs you can collect yourself.

DNA testing labs will not accept a sample without the legal guardians authorization as without it it is inadmissible in the courts.
It is compulsory for a male to supply a DNA sample if the mother requests a paternity test, however a mother can decline to give permission for a child to provide a DNA sample if a male disputes paternity.
It becomes more complex if his name is on the birth certificate and has spent more than 2 years in the relationship after the birth.
In other words the mother can have anyone father a child, and lumber the sucker she lived with, with the ongoing financial burden of child support until the child is 18/19.

[The Lone Rider]

If you are named as the father, you are most likely a legal guardian and have as much legal rights as the mother.

If you are a legal guardian, you don't need the mothers signature unless you are including a sample from the mother.

[gammaguy]

My issue is why should I have to pay child support when I will never get to see when I want to nor spend time with the child who I am paying child support for because of the miles between us. Not fair.

you are entitled to a say on when and where the child goes as I am assuming you are entitled to visiting rights

see a lawyer

[nadroj]

If you are named as the father, you are most likely a legal guardian and have as much legal rights as the mother.

If you are a legal guardian, you don't need the mothers signature unless you are including a sample from the mother.

Unfortunately not true according to more than 1 lawyer I have consulted.

The only way a sample can be legally tested for paternity is with the custodial parents permission or a court order, which would require proof of an encounter at the time of conception, to warrant the it's issuing.

[The Lone Rider]

Unfortunately not true according to more than 1 lawyer I have consulted.

The only way a sample can be legally tested for paternity is with the custodial parents permission or a court order, which would require proof of an encounter at the time of conception, to warrant the it's issuing.

Level 3, 60 Cook Street, Auckland, New Zealand

Find out for yourself.

[matrixbreaker]

You are not alone, here (http://www.divorced-man.co.nz/administrative-review-in-ird-new-zealand/):

it looks like admin review make decisions before the review itself

[azzanuts]

Unfortunately not true according to more than 1 lawyer I have consulted.

The only way a sample can be legally tested for paternity is with the custodial parents permission or a court order, which would require proof of an encounter at the time of conception, to warrant the it's issuing.

Ive just gone through all this. If your name is on the birth certificate then in the eyes of the law you are a legal guardian, whether your the day to day carer or not. I went thru nimble diagnostics on line and had a paternity package sent down so I had proof I was the father therefore my name go's on the certificate therefore I have the same rights as the mother as far as "parenting" go's. Also she cant move anywhere else in the country with my son without my permission.

[azzanuts]

I had a question that needed answering regarding Child Support (Paying Parent) so I rang up Inland Revenue to ask if a parent who is paying child support still has to pay it after that child leaves the country with the parent to whom it is living with.
I got told that as long as that parent is a NZ Citizen then yes I still have to pay Child Support regardless of where in the world they are living.
I would like to know what your point of view is on this matter and is there anyone else in this same situation?.

The only time you pay is if the day to day carer is on the DPB. In saying that, if the day to day carer is on the DPB then they are'nt allowed to move over sea's. They would be stopped at customs.

[Grubber]

The only time you pay is if the day to day carer is on the DPB. In saying that, if the day to day carer is on the DPB then they are'nt allowed to move over sea's. They would be stopped at customs.

Sorry but that is incorrect. You pay no matter if she or he is on DPB or not. If they are not on DPB then you pay direct to parent, or IRD can collect on your behalf and pay them.
AS far as going over seas, you still pay if you are the parent. Just because they are somewhere else doesn't mean they are no longer your responsibility.

[The Lone Rider]

Sorry but that is incorrect. You pay no matter if she or he is on DPB or not. If they are not on DPB then you pay direct to parent, or IRD can collect on your behalf and pay them.
AS far as going over seas, you still pay if you are the parent. Just because they are somewhere else doesn't mean they are no longer your responsibility.

^ Is correct.

Once the application for child support is made and IRD accepts it, you will be paying child support until the child is 18 (or married).

This even occurs if you have shared care. The difference in shared care though, is that your support payment amount drops and you can claim child support from the other parent. I have no idea how accepting IRD is of the "counter" claim of child support though.

In that case though, you may want to draft something with your lawyers and report to IRD that they no longer have to collect on eithers behalf as you've come to your own arrangement.




Another thing to note is if for some reason your income will be 30% less than what they have estimated you to earn (based off what you earned the last financial year), you can apply for a reassessment. I've done this once, and ended up not having to pay anymore for the rest of the year. I think they said they will have to credit me next year for already paying to much (but I bet I will have to chase them for it)

[Bikemad]

^ Is correct.

Once the application for child support is made and IRD accepts it, you will be paying child support until the child is 18 (or married).

This even occurs if you have shared care. The difference in shared care though, is that your support payment amount drops and you can claim child support from the other parent. I have no idea how accepting IRD is of the "counter" claim of child support though.

In that case though, you may want to draft something with your lawyers and report to IRD that they no longer have to collect on eithers behalf as you've come to your own arrangement.




Another thing to note is if for some reason your income will be 30% less than what they have estimated you to earn (based off what you earned the last financial year), you can apply for a reassessment. I've done this once, and ended up not having to pay anymore for the rest of the year. I think they said they will have to credit me next year for already paying to much (but I bet I will have to chase them for it)

you actually have to pay right through till they are 19,get married or get a job as i understand it..........went through a bunch of bullshit with IRD for my daughter till me and the ex sorted out a private deal at which point she had to write a letter asking IRD to stop collecting on her behalf

[The Lone Rider]

you actually have to pay right through till they are 19,get married or get a job as i understand it.

Yeah, you pay until they are 18. Once they are older than 18 you no longer have to.

And you still have to pay if they have a job - I think you're confusing the condition that if the child is independent of the previous day to day carer, then you don't have to pay. IE... a 16 year old that moves out to go flatting. But I've not got the whole story to that either. I just know it's not simply "if they are working".

[Bikemad]

Yeah, you pay until they are 18. Once they are older than 18 you no longer have to.


not in my experience...........it was a while ago and maybe the rules have changed but IRD insisted i was liable for child support up till her 19th birthday,from memory it's because you are a year behind in making current payments as they base the payments you make this year on your previous years income.............something like that

[Transalper]

It's 19. Been 19 for a wee while now, think it was only 18 when I started paying 18.3 years ago.
Payments are also based on the current years warnings or estimated earnings now, you are only 1 month behind when making the payment as in Novembers payment is due by 22nd December.

www.ird.govt.nz/childsupport/background (http://www.ird.govt.nz/childsupport/background/)


To qualify for child support, the child must be:

under 19 years of age
a New Zealand citizen or "ordinary resident" in New Zealand
not married or in a de facto relationship
financially dependent, that is, not working more than 30 hours a week on average, or receiving a benefit or student allowance.

The paying parent must pay until their child turns 19. It will stop before this if the child starts:

living with them full time
work full time (30 hours a week or more)
receiving a benefit or student allowance
living in a de facto relationship or marries.

[Subike]

If you have miss informed the IRD of your income, you can be reassessed AFTER the child has turned 19, and be required to pay arrears due to the child support person for as long as the arrears amount is outstanding.
Even if the child is no longer in that persons care!
Dont think that it ends with that either, If you leave the country owing LPC, and return after many years any LPC payment owing will be collected by the ERD, and forwarded to the parent.
Returning to retire on a pension, owing LPC . the IRD will collect the arrears from your pension before it is paid to you.

[The Lone Rider]

Just got shared care today, by agreement from the other parent.

:banana:


No more child support; just splitting the bills as they actually come. And very regular contact for bother parents.

[p.dath]

Just got shared care today, by agreement from the other parent.

:banana:


No more child support; just splitting the bills as they actually come. And very regular contact for bother parents.

Shared care does not mean the end of child support unless that was agreed to. The parent who earns more still has to pay money to the parent who earns less, it just isn't as much when the shared care is 50/50.

[Skiwi]

I had a question that needed answering regarding Child Support (Paying Parent) so I rang up Inland Revenue to ask if a parent who is paying child support still has to pay it after that child leaves the country with the parent to whom it is living with.
I got told that as long as that parent is a NZ Citizen then yes I still have to pay Child Support regardless of where in the world they are living.
I would like to know what your point of view is on this matter and is there anyone else in this same situation?.

IMHO - If they are YOUR children you have an ongoing obligation to assist in their financial support until they are capable of doing it for themselves, regardless of their physical location.

Often that basic right of the child gets clouded by a whole lot of other peripheral shit (custody, access etc). You frequently hear whining about paying, and 99% of the time it is to do with the relationship with the other parent or IRD, not the child. Just read all the posts on this thread and see how many are solely about the welfare of the child.......

[The Lone Rider]

Shared care does not mean the end of child support unless that was agreed to. The parent who earns more still has to pay money to the parent who earns less, it just isn't as much when the shared care is 50/50.

You are only a tiny bit right. Go see your lawyer.