Cornering tips for newbs?

[Matariki]

Ok, so most of you guys that have veiwed and answered to my posts now by now that I am a new rider. :yes:

The question I have is regarding cornering, what are some good tips that I should know?

What happens is I tend to tense up and my movements on the bike become more unstable. On the road I get nervous because I feel that I might crash into another car with my cornering. :blink:

[DMNTD]

Twist of the Wrist 2 (http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/141681885/twist+of+the+wrist?tab=summary) <<< download, watch...buy my bourbon or rum later

[Matariki]

Twist of the Wrist 2 (http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/141681885/twist+of+the+wrist?tab=summary) <<< download, watch...buy my bourbon or rum later

Iv'e watched it but I found some of the techniques rather confusing. What I learnt was to relax and bring my knees into the tank while turning. I'm still a little confused on how to use my vision to aid my turning and where to look. My head is still sore from trying to process all that information from the video.

[YellowDog]

Twist of the Wrist 2 (http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/141681885/twist+of+the+wrist?tab=summary) <<< download, watch...buy my bourbon or rum later

Twist of the Wrist is very good.

Hey Hotkebab, you really do need to put this issue to bed. It's a B I G safety issue. There are lots of youtube videos to explain cornering to you, but you won't be able to feel confident until you get your head around it.

Bikes (should) turn by leaning (not steering). You steer to steer the bike for very low speeds and to stop yourself falling over. Sounds silly but it is true.

To make a turn you have two choices. You can either slow slightly and let the bike lean by transferring your weight to the way you want to go (and then go with it by steering slowly), Or you can make the bike lean. The problem with slowing to let the bike lean is that your turning will be limited to the road surface (cambers can be an issue). You also will not be able to take sharper corners at a reasonable speed.

The way you make the bike lean is to slightly push on the handle bar on the side you want to turn. So what you are actually doing is slightly turning the steering right to turn left and slighly steering the bike left to turn right. Sounds silly, but it is true. It's called counter steering and that is how bikes steer. Many riders don't actually realise thay are doing it.

I remember saying to someone years ago that "I don't counter-steer". They told me that they had seen me riding and I definitely do? I didn't know I was counter steering. All I knew was that to take a bend, I would always swing out slighly, which is the same thing. The amount by which you swing out will depend upon how sharp the bend is.

You need to try this because it does work. Find yourself a straight piece of road and practice very gently pushing the bars on the side you need to go. Use it to change lane. Very gently push on the left side bar and the bike will gently lean left and you will move to the left side of the lane. Very gently push on the right side bar and the bike will gently lean right and you will move to the right side of the lane. It won't take long at all to feel confident as to how you steer your bike.

When you are happy with how the bike moves, then try it on some gentle bends.

Riding with the bike under your control is always preferrable :)

Good luck.

[TimeOut]

YellowDog is spot on

Always look where you want to go, not at what you want to avoid

In a corner look as far through the corner as you can (vanishing point)

Don't brake in a corner, better slow in and neutral or positive power around and out

Relax, easier said than done but it helps

[hellokitty]

I have never unstood what countersteering is either but from what yellowdog says I am doing it :yes: If I am unsure about a corner, I will change down a gear and ride through rather than brake.

[yungatart]

Get yourself a mentor.
Practice in an empty carpark.
Do a RRRS course.

All will be revealed....

[CookMySock]

If you ever want to successfully corner a motorcycle (not just newbie-steer it around) then there is only one thing you need to do - learn to steer it by pushing on the bars. Force yourself to steer only by pushing on the bars - do it everywhere until it comes out your ears, and then do it some more until it's second nature. That's it.

Steve

[BiK3RChiK]

I found that if I took the corners much slower and got my technique right, then, naturally the speed increased. I just had to ignore all the 'slow' comments :D

Just slow down and relax.... confidence will come.

[sinfull]

What happens is I tend to tense up and my movements on the bike become more unstable. : Tell me about it, arm pump like ya wouldn't believe, death grip from hell ! I found that dropping the shoulder as far into the corner as i can, so the elbow is nearly touching the track .... oh wait wrong forum !

Try the counter steer thing like Yellowdog said, just pootle down a straight bit of road and give a slight push on the left bar and see what happens and then right bar and see what happens, Thats counter steering !

But what your experiencing are just natural nerves, which will go away in time as confidence grows !

The head fuck your getting from the twist of the wrist is just too much knowledge all at one time ! Keep reading it over the next few years and it'll all fall into place !

Find a track day that suits ya and book yrself in to go round and round and round with no cars to worry about hitting so you can practise your cornering and learn what your bikes limits really are !

Did ya sort the gear shift problem out ?

[Quasi]

Hi HK,

I am down in Martinborough and happy to ride with you on some quiet roads. PM me if youre interested

[sinfull]

Hi HK,

I am down in Martinborough and happy to ride with you on some quiet roads. PM me if youre interested
She can't PM yet, too low in the post count !

[CookMySock]

I found that if I took the corners much slower and got my technique right, then, naturally the speed increased. [...] Just slow down and relax.... confidence will come.This is correct, but you must have a proper foundation to build upon, or all you do is rehearse bad habits until they are fully ingrained - then you will never be able to do anything about it.

It's like tennis - "Concentrate on form, and the speed will come."

Steve

[Slyer]

The basics:
Make sure you are setting yourself up for the corner, for a right hand corner you should be starting the corner in the left side of the lane, coming near the right side of the lane when you are in the middle of the corner and then you should be back by the left side of the lane by the time you exit the corner. This means that you take full advantage of the space given and actually lean as least as possible.

Giving the bike a little bit of throttle just so that you stay at a constant speed will help keep the bike stable but this is not essential, you should be at a speed that you can make it the whole way around the corner without touching the brakes.

Once you are up to certain speed (20-30kph?) you cannot steer motorcycles by steering, have to make the bike turn by leaning. The easiest (and best) way to make the bike lean is as said, to countersteer. Push on the right handlebar gently to make the bike lean right and push on the left handlebar gently to make the bike lean left.

Always keep plenty of stopping distance between you and the car in front of you when cornering, especially on a bike like a GN250, like 4 seconds to start with. I learned this one the hard way...
Hope everyone's advice helps.

[steve_t]

I haven't watched TOTW2 but have read it and it's great reading! Everyone should read it!

[Quasi]

She can't PM yet, too low in the post count !

thanks Bill - i will do the honours

[robertvi]

I used to tense up on corners like you say: when I was counter steering by pushing the side I wanted to turn to, I was subconsciously fighting this by tensing up the other hand!

I think (correct me please someone if this is wrong) counter steering can equally be done by pulling gently on the opposite side as by pushing on the side you're turning to (or both). When I realised this it helped me to relax on corners better, combined with the looking into the corner thing.

Hope this helps!

[R-Soul]

From my reading:


There are two different steering techniques- one for low speed (below 20kph), and one for higher speed (above 20 kph).

The main one for you to learn is the higher speed one, since without it you have no real control of your bike(shifting weight does nopt do much to a bike at speed).

Counter steering:
The higher speed technique is called counter steering. To make the bike lean and turn, you have to steer the bike (sightly) in the opposite direction. EG. to turn left, you push on the left bar or pull on the right bar, or both.

Dont push/pull the bars down or up (i.e. toward/away from the ground) - this does not do anything- only forward and backward.
You can shift your weight to lean into the corner a bit - this makes the corner more comfortable for you subjectively. But it makes very little difference to the actual amount of cornering that the bike does. (You can actually lean the opposite way (out of corner) and still lean the bike the right way (into corner) by counter steering, and take a corner)

Putting your weight on the pegs (by pushing down on them) stabilises the bike in a corner.

When you are in a corner, the bike has sideways forces on it. These sideways forces are opposed by the traction of your tyres. Your tyres can only handle so much traction loading (they have only so much friction to give) . When you corner too fast the traction loading is too high, (as the friction of your tyres in the ground is not enough to counter the outward forces), one or more of your tyres break traction and slides outward in a corner.

When you add additional traction load to your tyres in the corner, for example by braking, then the traction can also be overcome. Best to do your braking before the corner and before turning in. Also, try and choose a single, smooth line through a corner, and then turn ONCE to get on the line - try not to adjust your line several times in the corner. Every time you change lines, you are adding to the traction requirements.

For road riding, it is preferabe to go a deep as you can into a corner (to be able to see as far around the corner as you can), then turn once to get your bike's direction turned, and then try and ride out of the corner on as straight a line as possible. This is so that you are leaned over as for the shortest time possible. When you are more upright, you can react more to possible hazards.


When you accelerate or brake, the weight distribution on the wheels changes from front to back and vice versa. Adding weight to a wheel that is leaned at an angle can make the wheel break traction at the ground (especially under braking which is typically much sharper than acceleration). For eg the additional weight on the front wheel acts down the forks, onto the contact patch at the ground, to push the wheel outwards in a corner.

A bike goes around a corner in its most settled state with the power slightly on, so that the weight is mostly on the back wheel. This is because slight acceleration causes the suspension at the back to stand up slightly and make the bike have better steering geometry. Too much accelreation is difficult to handle. So do all the neccessary braking first while youare upright, then turn in to your chosen line, and then roll on to the throttle gently to provide slight acceleration.

Lesson two will follow.

[Cayman911]

Best counter steering video.

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[R-Soul]

Continuing counter steering technique:

The bike is designed with particular performance in mind. Especially the suspension. the suspension is designed to work best when the bike is upright (as the shocks will be upright in this position). When the shocks are operating properly, they are keeping the tyres against the ground, so that it can generate friction at the contact patch to counter cornering forces.

The riders job is to keep the bike operating at close to its ideal design conditions.When the bike is leaned over, the suspension does not operate as efficiently. This is why the rider must try and keep the bike as upright as possible in a corner. They do this by leaning inside more, so that the bike can lean over less.

Also, the bike is designed to be stable steering in a corner by itself (theroetically you should be able to take your hands off the bars in a corner and the bike will continue onward with no change). When you hold onto the handlebars tightly, you are interfering with the design by adding rgidity to it. this is why you must be relaxed and allow the bars to adjust as they should in a corner, to account for bumps etc in the corner.

But in order to have relaxed arms AND be leaning inwardly, you need good balance. To have good balance, you need good body positioning. Good body positioning means that you are not contorted or uncomfortable, and are balanced without requiring much additional support.

When approaching a corner, and before turning in, prepare your body positioning for the corner by opening your inside hip (i.e. move your inside hip backwards relative to your outside hip), and moving your bum to the inside side of the seat. You can then bend your body over witha straight back (without haviing to twist it into a helical shape) so that your torso is low and almost next to the tank (also called 'kissing the inside mirror'). You will be facing inwardly and forwardly into the corner. In this position you can be balanced and not have to hang on the bars for support.

This means a more relaxed grip on the bars.

OK that is the sum of what I have learnt so far.

Anybody got any more for me to learn? Can anybody explain "tread walking" to me again ( I am a slow learner)?

[slofox]

If I am honest, I would have to say that these days I don't really know HOW I get around a corner - I don't often do anything consciously. The corner comes up and the bike goes round it. Presumedly because I have been doing it long enough for it to have become an unconscious thing.

I suppose I use body weight mostly - it kind of relates to looking through the corner - in fact I think the initiation of cornering comes from subtle movement of the head - with the rest of the body following. Sometimes I will drop the inside shoulder if I want to get the bike over further (woohoo factor) but often enough I just plant my bum on the seat and let the bike go. I am not one who climbs around all over the bike but then I don't go that fast through corners anyway - just enough to feel good most of the time, especially on the open road where there are cars and trucks and loonies all around...

Would be good to get some very high speed video footage of one's cornering technique to look at and analyse...No doubt all of the things mentioned by other posters here do happen. But I think it's a little like walking - if we think too hard about how to do it, it gets harder. To walk, we just walk...

What I do think is that the less you use your arms the better (see R Sole's post above) - I'm not talking countersteering here - I'm talking keeping your arms relaxed - I just hang 'em on the bars and try to leave them soft as possible. The more tension in the arms, the less well the front handles any imperfections in the road surface. Leave it alone and the bike will do it for you is my motto...

I spent all my childhood riding bikes and have been on and off motorbikes for some forty-two years now so I would expect some degree of unconscious action to have developed. You know what they say - "it's like riding a bike really..."

[CookMySock]

You don't need to know all the techo-bizo of countersteering. Just get on a long straight road at about 70km/hr and gently at first push forward on each bar in turn - feel the bike swerve left and right, left and right - keep practicing it. Stick with only straight roads and 70km/hr and practice until you can swing a nice deep swerve. It's pretty hard to fall off doing this, but it goes without saying you should not be scraping your footpegs on the road just yet! ;)

Once you have got it, then move on to some nice sweeping corners, and use the same technique to steer around the corner. Ride right up the middle of your lane and concentrate on staying exactly there - at this stage you need discipline and accuracy.

Keep doing this everywhere you ride. Concentrate on sitting still in your seat and steering only with the bars. It will feel odd, but very quickly you will begin to get it, and you will feel the birth of a sport biker right then.

:niceone:

Steve

[steve_t]

I tried a day of shifting my weight around and weighting the outside peg - when I got off the bike, I could barely walk cos my legs were so sore and tired. More mad props to those who race as their strength and fitness are obviously extremely good!

[CookMySock]

I tried a day of shifting my weight around and weighting the outside peg - when I got off the bike, I could barely walk cos my legs were so sore and tired. More mad props to those who race as their strength and fitness are obviously extremely good!Motorcycling is good for the bod! :niceone:

Steve

[Old Steve]

I practice counter-steering every second that I'm riding. OK, not quite, but I make a habit of counter-steering in order to avoid all white painted road signs and potential hazards such as painted speed numbers, pedestrian crossing diamonds and bars, manhole covers, etc. This not only gets me counter-steering more often but I'm also getting into the habit of avoiding white paint and manhole covers on the road (these are slippery when wet!)

I also just weave slightly using counter-steering whenever I'm on a straight road with little or no traffic around, I do this for the fun of it but it's probably ingraining counter-steering as my fall back danger avoidance technique.

Practice, practice, practice.

[CookMySock]

I practice counter-steering every second that I'm riding. OK, not quite..Do it everywhere. Force yourself to do it. In just a few months it will be totally automatic and you will one of a very small group of bikers who can corner really hard with little or no warning. There is a difference between 'knowing' countersteering and 'believing' it. Self-discipline for newbie riders is the key.

Steve

[Cayman911]

Do it everywhere

Steve

especially useful when you notice a piece of shredded metal in the middle of the road moments before you are about to run over it

[PrincessBandit]

I found that if I took the corners much slower and got my technique right, then, naturally the speed increased. I just had to ignore all the 'slow' comments :D

Just slow down and relax.... confidence will come.

What Mavis just said. I laugh at people who moan about those of us who slow into our corners - I much prefer to go down a gear or two so that I'm not grabbing a handful of brake as I approach corners. When approaching the corner to my street, coming along in 5th or 6th I usually start dropping down into 3rd just as I indicate my turn (4th to 3rd is usually a double tap, effectively "missing out" 4th gear). The main thing is to take the corner at a speed you feel comfortable with, but try practicing as others have said, somewhere where you don't have the pressure of other vehicles out on the road with you. When I started riding I would take my bike out at 7am on a Saturday morning to just ride around the block basically since hardly anyone was around then. Leaning is something that will come to you as you relax and get a better feel for your bike.
A mentor would be a great idea for you; someone who you can ride with and practice things with.

[BiK3RChiK]

A mentor would be a great idea for you; someone who you can ride with and practice things with.

Just choose someone who doesn't pressure you into going quicker than you would if you were by yourself. When I was fairly new on my 250, I rode with some chicks who had been riding a long time, and one suggested I pick up the pace! You should just do what you feel comfortable with. A mentor really should provide guidance on technique more than speed, IMO... but only at a pace you are comfortable with.

[Dare]

I practice counter-steering every second that I'm riding. OK, not quite, but I make a habit of counter-steering in order to avoid all white painted road signs and potential hazards such as painted speed numbers, pedestrian crossing diamonds and bars, manhole covers, etc. This not only gets me counter-steering more often but I'm also getting into the habit of avoiding white paint and manhole covers on the road (these are slippery when wet!)
Quick note, don't do this during your restricted or full test. Day before got told it just makes it look like you aren't scanning far enough ahead for hazards. Just aim your line around them, should be able to do it just with body weight :P