Cross entry?

[slowpoke]

It's that time of year again where we start to get all moist at the mouth over the start of another Winter Series.

Well kind of.

It's that time of year when I pay my hundy or so bucks rock up to the grid and find the bugger next to me has only paid a lousy twenny to sit on the same grid, thanks to the cross entry rules. Nothing like racing with crappy leathers, 'cos it shits me everytime.

Not to mention talented guys like Sketchy and Nick Cole are actively discouraged from making the jump to a Superbike because they effectively halve their race opportunities. There's even a cup now to reward their staying behind rather making the step up.

Yep, the easy thing to do is just front up with an F3/600/pre-89 bike and join the masses, but even then I'd still be shat off. Watching Sketchy, Nick, John Ross etc languishing on 600's instead of learning from our few international calibre riders like Craig, Stroudy, Robbie and co is just a waste of talent. If that's all they want to do then all good, but looking at the near teenage talent on display in World Superstock and Superbike I don't see any logical progression within the NZ racing scene to get one of our best anywhere near them.

But on the up side I can't actually make many Winter Series race rounds this year, so it'll save me cleaning my shitty leathers every race weekend.

As you were, the Reverend Rantalot has left the building......

[crazzed]

just dont let them cross enter easy as that spud.
but look at the up side a F1 bike is cheaper to buy than F2 cause no one want them.
as you were..............................

[Shaun]

It's that time of year again where we start to get all moist at the mouth over the start of another Winter Series.

Well kind of.

It's that time of year when I pay my hundy or so bucks rock up to the grid and find the bugger next to me has only paid a lousy twenny to sit on the same grid, thanks to the cross entry rules. Nothing like racing with crappy leathers, 'cos it shits me everytime.

Not to mention talented guys like Sketchy and Nick Cole are actively discouraged from making the jump to a Superbike because they effectively halve their race opportunities. There's even a cup now to reward their staying behind rather making the step up.

Yep, the easy thing to do is just front up with an F3/600/pre-89 bike and join the masses, but even then I'd still be shat off. Watching Sketchy, Nick, John Ross etc languishing on 600's instead of learning from our few international calibre riders like Craig, Stroudy, Robbie and co is just a waste of talent. If that's all they want to do then all good, but looking at the near teenage talent on display in World Superstock and Superbike I don't see any logical progression within the NZ racing scene to get one of our best anywhere near them.

But on the up side I can't actually make many Winter Series race rounds this year, so it'll save me cleaning my shitty leathers every race weekend.

As you were, the Reverend Rantalot has left the building......






Give me ya bike then Spud, when you are to busy to ride it

[slowpoke]

Give me ya bike then Spud, when you are to busy to ride it

You going into the bike cleaning business Shaun? Or "bike whispering"? Like me the grumpy ol' bitch could definitely do with a bit of re-educating.

[Shaun]

You going into the bike cleaning business Shaun? Or "bike whispering"? Like me the grumpy ol' bitch could definitely do with a bit of re-educating.




Your baby just needs putting together again with care mate, by some one who know;s how to do the job professionally.

[johan]

Why not let F1 cross enter into F2?

If F2 riders are concerned about loosing points to higher capacity machines, just separate the points between F1/F2. The timing system is already in place for a setup like this.

Looking at the timesheets, many a F2 riders are quicker than F1 anyway...

[Kickaha]

Why not let F1 cross enter into F2?

How about because they aren't eligible?

[johan]

How about because they aren't eligible?

Is there a rule stopping clubs running F1 and F2 together if the class is called F2 but fine if it's called F1?
That sounds a lot like the Swedish bureaucracy I thought I left a longtime ago.

Just call it F1 then and time the engine capacities accordingly so every one can get their precious track time.

My two swedish kronor (worth buger all these days) :innocent:

[CHOPPA]

I think maybe the race order should be reviewed, if the day is running late the F1 class will be the first to get bumped, F2 should be last cause if there race gets bumped they have still had 5 races

[lukemillar]

Is the LG superbike class/race not running this year?

[CHOPPA]

Is the LG superbike class/race not running this year?

I think LG may have over promised and under delivered on the sponsorship of that class so its no more....

[slowpoke]

Your baby just needs putting together again with care mate, by some one who know;s how to do the job professionally.

The same thought has occurred to me Shaun, I think I was in mid-air at the time.....

Seriously, you're welcome to have a play on/with the thing for a weekend. It really is an ugly work in progress though so it would be more hard work than good fun. With everything on my plate the poor thing has been pushed down the priority list for the moment but I'm hoping to get some shit squared away and ramp it up later in the year. I'll send you a PM.


Why not let F1 cross enter into F2?

If F2 riders are concerned about loosing points to higher capacity machines, just separate the points between F1/F2. The timing system is already in place for a setup like this.

Looking at the timesheets, many a F2 riders are quicker than F1 anyway...

I've seen the 600's and 1000's lumped together in Oz, with separate A and B grades rather than capacity divisions. It gave the slower guys something to race for, even if it was just the pride of jumping up a grade or trying to avoid dropping down. The jump for the Clubman's guys wasn't quite as intimidating either.


I think maybe the race order should be reviewed, if the day is running late the F1 class will be the first to get bumped, F2 should be last cause if there race gets bumped they have still had 5 races

Good point mate.

It's guys like you, Hayden, Ryan Hampton, etc that are most penalised by the current arrangements. All the drive and talent is there but the racing opportunites aren't. With more opportunities the Superbike field would be bigger, and the guys coming through from 600's would have a much clearer improvement path.

[slowpoke]

How about because they aren't eligible?

By the MNZ National classes 6 hundies aren't eligible for the Superbike class either.

There seriously needs to be some face time between MNZ and the Clubs to develop an overall strategy for developing the sport and the riders coming through. I'm an ol' fart only in it for shits and giggles but if I was 18years old with an ounce of the talent that Sketchy, Nick Cole, Ryan Hampton, Choppa have got I'd be stuffed as to what is the best way to develop a ridng career. It should be a clear simple progression, not a confusing hotch potch with plusses and minuses depending on whether you stay in 600's or step up.

[Kickaha]

By the MNZ National classes 6 hundies aren't eligible for the Superbike class either.


It is F1 class not NZSBK and I doubt to many people have a F1 set of rules lying around to check what is allowed :lol:

[woodyracer]

F1's are cooler??, does that help? ahahaa

[Ivan]

I think maybe the race order should be reviewed, if the day is running late the F1 class will be the first to get bumped, F2 should be last cause if there race gets bumped they have still had 5 races


But to be Fair not all 600 guys come through to superbikes

[Ivan]

Yeah Nats runa different layout than clubs,
F1 and F2 are more open to allow the likes of your RS250 Hondas or your Steadman Specials or Brittens etc,

If we at club level ran Supersport ans Superbike you would have more guys in clubmans as there are some bikesout there which do not fit these class rules but allowing them as formula classes does.

[Kickaha]

Motorcycling Canterbury run it as Junior (125-F3) and Senior (600-1000)

[wharfy]

Source: Mylaps, Vic Club web site

Disclaimer: I cross enter into every class I can - one of the reasons I chose the 675 I can enter F1 F2 and BEAR's (and have crashed in all of them )

As the table below shows the F2 class is usually well subscribed and on a number of occasions “oversubscribed” on the one occasion that F1 was oversubscribed 3 of the bikes that did not qualify were not eligible for F2 (Yamaha FZR 1000 GSXR 1100 GSXR 1000) the other 3 were F2 bikes.

The usual practice (well the twice it happened last season anyway) is for bikes that don't qualify for their class get to run in clubmans if they want.

If the dozen or so F1 bikes that typically show up to a Winter Series round were allowed to enter F2 then potentially 6 or 7 bikes per round would not qualify for their class.

The “six hundy's” already have to share the F2 grid with plenty of other “cross entered” bikes Pro-Twins, F3 (SV 650, Ozzy 450's RGV 250's NC 30's ) and on occasion get “bumped out” by bikes that are cross entered from other “lower” classes. At round 5 at least 6 F3 bikes qualified ahead of F2 bikes.

It is a shame that the LG class is no more - that gave the "thou's" an extra run and I got to watch the big boys (as opposed to having to "watch out" for them as they roared past !! )


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[slowpoke]

Motorcycling Canterbury run it as Junior (125-F3) and Senior (600-1000)

So that Southern crowd is smart as well as good lookin'......if you don't mind the scar where the 6th finger was removed.

Just another example of how the clubs/MNZ need to get together and compare notes. Some feedback from some racers down there would be interesting too.

[roadracingoldfart]

It's that time of year again where we start to get all moist at the mouth over the start of another Winter Series.

Well kind of.

It's that time of year when I pay my hundy or so bucks rock up to the grid and find the bugger next to me has only paid a lousy twenny to sit on the same grid, thanks to the cross entry rules. Nothing like racing with crappy leathers, 'cos it shits me everytime.

Not to mention talented guys like Sketchy and Nick Cole are actively discouraged from making the jump to a Superbike because they effectively halve their race opportunities. There's even a cup now to reward their staying behind rather making the step up.

Yep, the easy thing to do is just front up with an F3/600/pre-89 bike and join the masses, but even then I'd still be shat off. Watching Sketchy, Nick, John Ross etc languishing on 600's instead of learning from our few international calibre riders like Craig, Stroudy, Robbie and co is just a waste of talent. If that's all they want to do then all good, but looking at the near teenage talent on display in World Superstock and Superbike I don't see any logical progression within the NZ racing scene to get one of our best anywhere near them.

But on the up side I can't actually make many Winter Series race rounds this year, so it'll save me cleaning my shitty leathers every race weekend.

As you were, the Reverend Rantalot has left the building......



Cross entry is great , ya just gotta have a suitable bike and have alot more fun (bang for your buck) .

[roadracingoldfart]

But to be Fair not all 600 guys come through to superbikes

Thats because alot of guys and girls dont feel the leap to the bigger class is within thier capability Ivan , many could learn a bit but many could also be put off with the diff speed levels by the front runners. I used to do F1 on an NS400R and i was never last but there is alot of speed diff on the straight bits which some F1 guys like to impress on the slower bikes with a close flyby which freaks some out.

Paul.

[SWERVE]

The junior (125-F3) & senior (600/1000) works pretty well down here. It gives all the 600cc + bikes a chance to do equal amounts of racing. Think its also done so all the classes get to run within the allowable curfew times. Ruapuna is pretty even at club level with the 1000,s making it on the straight and the600,s fighting back in the infield. Levels is the best as it is quite even.......... as Dennis Charlett (600) and Ryan Hampton (1000) showed us last month.
Also during the winter months numbers in the upper classes dont dictate having two classes/races. But as MCC have finally begun to move the faster guys out of clubmans the fields are looking better.

[wharfy]

I quite like the "Sound of Thunder" A B & C (bracket) races, split up by lap times, makes for some close racing.

[Skunk]

Has anyone bothered to contact their clubs about this? Preferably 6 months before the season kicks off?
No?
Oh, ok then.
As you were.

[Biggles08]

Has anyone bothered to contact their clubs about this? Preferably 6 months before the season kicks off?
No?
Oh, ok then.
As you were.

Faaaark skunk...this IS Kb!?! :-D

I like the fact that I get to play with the 1000cc bikes, it gives me some experience to prepare me to jump on a litre bike one day. I agree, it's a shame the LG Superbike class is not there for the thous to have a play in now...but that's life I guess. Maybe the senior/junior system they run down south has some merit...although I have a feeling that the field size would be too big to run it that way through the winter series at VMCC.

[slowpoke]

Has anyone bothered to contact their clubs about this? Preferably 6 months before the season kicks off?
No?
Oh, ok then.
As you were.

C'mon mate, how do you think the LG Superbike Race came into being? Ed Roteveel and I both (coincidentally) made submissions regarding exactly this issue prior to last season and with Ed's LG backing/support the LG Superbike race was born.

LG support is neither here nor there from a riders perspective, we'd happily race for bragging rights alone. Be interesting to see if Craig, Stroudy, Jimmy Smith, Ryan Hampton etc rock up like they did last season without the extra race.

So, your assumption is totally incorrect......unless you are suggesting we should lobby for our individual classes prior to every season?

The Vic Club does a fantatstic job organising the Winter Series but by dropping that extra race I can't help feeling they've been a lil' short sighted.


Faaaark skunk...this IS Kb!?! :-D

I like the fact that I get to play with the 1000cc bikes, it gives me some experience to prepare me to jump on a litre bike one day. I agree, it's a shame the LG Superbike class is not there for the thous to have a play in now...but that's life I guess. Maybe the senior/junior system they run down south has some merit...although I have a feeling that the field size would be too big to run it that way through the winter series at VMCC.

I'm not sure how racing thou's on a 600 prepares you for racing a thou' yourself. If, like me, a thou' can't get away from you 'round Manfeild then there's not much worth learning from them.

But realistically as long as you can get twice the racing on a 600, you, like most other racers, won't make the jump so it's nothing to worry about. Shame that also applies equally to the most talented riders coming through.

Check out the World Superstock field with the teenagers on thou's, or Johnny Rea, Jorge Lorenzo winning races at the highest levels at what, 22/23 years old and here we are with barely anybody at all on a superbike under the age of 25.

[kittytamer]

But realistically as long as you can get twice the racing on a 600, you, like most other racers, won't make the jump so it's nothing to worry about. Shame that also applies equally to the most talented riders coming through.

I've had conversations about moving from 600 to 1000 with several 600 riders and we all agree there is no insentive to do it. You spend more money on tyres and get less racing.
I would love to be able to run a Ducati 749, then I could race F1, F2, Open Twin, BEARS...
I guess it all depends on where you want to go with your racing. For youngsters wanting to progress up through the classes, the fact there are less races per day shouldn't stop them, but if you just want maximum track time and have no illusions of being a world champion, then cross entry in great.
Of course this only applies to club racing not the National Series...

[Tony.OK]

I've had conversations about moving from 600 to 1000 with several 600 riders and we all agree there is no insentive to do it. You spend more money on tyres and get less racing.
I would love to be able to run a Ducati 749, then I could race F1, F2, Open Twin, BEARS...
I guess it all depends on where you want to go with your racing. For youngsters wanting to progress up through the classes, the fact there are less races per day shouldn't stop them, but if you just want maximum track time and have no illusions of being a world champion, then cross entry in great.
Of course this only applies to club racing not the National Series...

That myth about costing more doesn't stack up at all when 600 riders are spending twice the time on track, a fast 600 will still chew tyres out at pace, more so if susp isn't right.
I'd hazzard a guess that racing a thou is cheaper per meeting..............but you're correct in less track time.

So it boils down to what you want to do..........race a thou cause ya love 'em......or get max bang for buck on a 6 hundy.

I ain't fit enough to race twice as much so 3 races keeps me happy.....................would be nice to have an "a" and "b" points system to allow for cross entrants though, a=F1, b=F2..................that would differentiate F1 series from merely a glorified F2 championship.

[johan]

It looks like a great season ahead!

This year we've got three rounds with the long track, very cool!
Two rounds that are two days racing Sat/Sun.
We also have three races per class in the rounds where the sidecars are not competing, if I'm not mistaken?

Good luck every one tomorrow! If I'm not at the track I'll check out the live timing system on internet.

[Biggles08]

I'm not sure how racing thou's on a 600 prepares you for racing a thou' yourself. If, like me, a thou' can't get away from you 'round Manfeild then there's not much worth learning from them.
But realistically as long as you can get twice the racing on a 600, you, like most other racers, won't make the jump so it's nothing to worry about. Shame that also applies equally to the most talented riders coming through.


ummm...first assumption you got wrong slowpoke is, I was referring to the riders I get to ride with on the track that only ride in superbikes (Chop, Shirriffs, Fitzgerald etc) not the actual bikes...second assumption is that I have no desire to ride a superbike only because I get more riding on a 600cc...that for the record has nothing to do with it...I'm not ready for a thou yet thats the ONLY reason I don't ride one :-)

as you were...

[slowpoke]

ummm...first assumption you got wrong slowpoke is, I was referring to the riders I get to ride with on the track that only ride in superbikes (Chop, Shirriffs, Fitzgerald etc) not the actual bikes...second assumption is that I have no desire to ride a superbike only because I get more riding on a 600cc...that for the record has nothing to do with it...I'm not ready for a thou yet thats the ONLY reason I don't ride one :-)

as you were...

I knew what ya meant regarding riders Marcus, but Choppa and those purdy Honda boys are long gone after 2 corners so good luck trying to absorb something in that time.

But all good mate, be great to see ya on a Superbike sometime.